#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 19 Apr 2002 (GMT)

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[11:13:23] <Fingolfin> yo
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[11:13:31] <Darke> Hi.
[13:03:18] <Fingolfin> anybody wiht Windows & IE 6 awake?
[13:07:20] <Darke> Not me.
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[13:18:50] <Colourless> hi
[13:19:38] <Kirben> Fingolfin:I have both
[13:20:04] <Darke> Hi.
[13:20:18] <Kirben> Hi
[13:21:07] <Colourless> Fingolfin: me too :-)
[13:23:02] <Fingolfin> ok
[13:23:25] <Fingolfin> so, can you look at http://fink.sourceforge.net - it now works fine in Mozilla, I wonder if it is OK in IE 6, too
[13:24:02] <Fingolfin> that is, does the navbar look "normal"
[13:24:50] <Kirben> looks fine to me
[13:25:11] <Colourless> everything seems fine for me
[13:25:19] <Colourless> no gaps
[13:26:49] <Colourless> oddly enought, does it really matter :-)
[13:27:28] <Colourless> it's not like windows users are actually your target audience :-)
[13:27:58] <Colourless> s/enought/enough/
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[14:01:08] <wjp> hi
[14:01:32] <wjp> Fingolfin: there's a gap of a couple of pixels for me in the fink logo
[14:01:47] <wjp> (same place as before)
[14:01:53] <Colourless> hi
[14:06:45] <Darke> Hi.\
[14:09:58] <Colourless> wjp: u8's gamedat dir is really strange. the npc map (map 1) of nonfixed.dat never gets updated at any time during the game. Even at the end of the game, nonfixed.dat says the npc's are in the same place as they started. It appear that itemcach.dat is used to store the positions of the npcs, in a really strange way too
[14:10:55] <wjp> hm, strange
[14:11:00] <Colourless> for instance avatars x coord is stored at location 0x0092 of ITEMCACH.DAT while y is stored at 0x4890
[14:11:19] <Fingolfin> wjp: really`? hm, no in Mozilla 1.0rc1
[14:11:22] <Fingolfin> for me on OS X that is
[14:11:24] <wjp> oh, yes, itemcach stores arrays of values, not arrays of structs
[14:11:43] <Colourless> hmm, interesting
[14:11:51] <wjp> it's documented somewhere
[14:12:24] <Colourless> i also found where it attempts to store the avatars frame number... BUT it only soome to store the lower 8 bits
[14:12:48] <Colourless> s/soome/seems/
[14:12:59] <wjp> Fingolfin: http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/fink.png
[14:13:41] * wjp wonders where the higher bits are stored then :-)
[14:13:49] <wjp> probably somewhere on the other end of the file :-)
[14:14:04] <Colourless> actually as far as I can tell, not in that file
[14:14:06] <Colourless> :-)
[14:14:47] <Colourless> i got a set of save games. one of them i saved with the avatar being thrown back. this shape about 528 or something
[14:15:16] <Colourless> I copied the itemcach.dat over one from where he was standing still, and his frame was wrong
[14:21:38] <Colourless> it appears that it might be in npcdata or avatar as different combinations of those can produce odd effects
[14:21:38] <Colourless> ah, good, the info about ITEMCACH.DAT might be useful
[14:21:38] <Colourless> the format of itemcach is quite bizzare
[14:21:38] <Colourless> a struct of arrays seems a tad non sensical
[14:22:21] <Colourless> but none the less, it's format is just the exact opposite of nonfixed.dat
[14:22:32] <wjp> how wrong? being thrown back or something else entirely?
[14:22:40] <Colourless> which incidently also saves the frame num as a byte
[14:23:19] <Colourless> i'm guessing that there must have been special handling for animations from anim.dat which can use frames > 255
[14:29:25] <Fingolfin> can't access www.math.leidenuniv.nl[132.229.231.4]
[14:37:31] <wjp> am I still here?
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[14:56:02] <Fingolfin> wjp. yes you are still here :-)
[14:56:02] <Fingolfin> but I still can't connect to that URL
[14:56:02] <Fingolfin> ah now it finally worked
[14:57:46] <wjp> our gateway moved to a different connection
[14:57:53] <wjp> speed++ ;-)
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[15:54:13] <wjp> hm, exultbot did survive but I didn't?
[15:54:16] <wjp> *sniff*
[15:54:54] * Darke cheers the bot.
[15:55:59] * Darke blinks. The forum has been rather busy lately.
[15:56:07] <wjp> indeed
[16:01:03] * Darke notes two 'new' topics begging for a copy of u8, and only about a third of the rest actually directly relevant to exult. Not bad, normally it's close to 90% non-exult related. <grin>
[16:10:42] <Colourless> ok, i've found the 'high' bits for the shape frame numbers for the npcs :-)
[16:11:35] <Colourless> it's at byte i*31+7 of entry 0 for npc num i
[16:11:43] <Colourless> in npcdata.dat
[16:12:05] <Colourless> that should be 0x31 hex
[16:12:43] <wjp> hm, I don't suppose 0x31*i+6 or +8 is the low bits too or anything?
[16:13:03] <Colourless> no
[16:13:31] <Colourless> high bits are in npcdata.dat, lowbits are in itemcach.dat
[16:13:48] <wjp> *sigh*
[16:14:12] <wjp> I should go home
[16:14:18] <wjp> bbl
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[16:29:47] <wjp> hi again
[16:31:58] <Colourless> wb
[16:32:59] <wjp> thx
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[17:44:37] * wjp notices another big commit
[17:46:15] <Colourless> :-)
[17:47:16] <wjp> can I already run it in opengl?
[17:47:51] <Colourless> no, i didn't add 2 files that are required
[17:50:54] <Colourless> these being called OpenGL.cc and OpenGL.h :-)
[19:25:35] <Colourless> should i add the 2 files? there really isn't much advantage using opengl at the moment and I was going to wait till the functionality was a little better before adding them
[19:26:09] * wjp won't be able to use it anyway
[19:28:50] <Colourless> ok, i'll wait
[19:29:46] <wjp> I should really get around to setting up hardware 3d someday
[19:34:34] <Colourless> what card do you have?
[19:34:46] <wjp> tnt2ultra
[19:35:48] <Colourless> hmm, that's beginning to get a tad old now
[19:36:03] <wjp> yeah, I don't mind though :-)
[19:36:11] <Colourless> should still be enough for pentagram.
[19:36:39] <wjp> maybe I should look into a low-end GF2 or 3 or something sometime
[19:36:49] <Colourless> or 4 now :-)
[19:36:54] <wjp> 4 already?
[19:36:59] <Colourless> yeah :-)
[19:36:59] * wjp seems to be behind a bit :-)
[19:38:06] <Colourless> things like a GeForce 2 MX200 would be slower than your TnT2
[19:39:15] <wjp> really? why did they even market it then?
[19:39:28] <Colourless> cheap volume part
[19:39:42] <Colourless> that's where the big bucks overall are
[19:40:15] <Colourless> it also sucks for developers because these people think they have a decent card (a GeForce 2) but in reality it's terrible
[19:40:21] <wjp> let's see... a GF2 GTS with 64Mb for Eur115
[19:40:52] <wjp> or a GF2 MX400 for 109
[19:41:23] <wjp> and after that prices go up quite a lot :-)
[19:41:26] <Colourless> GTS
[19:41:39] <Colourless> it's only 6 more and about double the speed
[19:42:42] <wjp> hm, there's also a GF4 MX440 for 169
[19:43:10] <Colourless> GF4 MX440 is a bit better than a GF2 GTS
[19:48:02] <Colourless> of course, i couldn't recommend you get anything as long as you don't actually play 3d games :-)
[19:48:36] <wjp> :-)
[19:55:35] * Colourless wonders what the texture usage would actually be if scaled textures were used.... unscaled 32 bit textures used enough as is...
[19:58:35] <Colourless> only one way to find out.... (actually that's a lie there are multiple ways, and doing the actual conversion isn't one)
[22:50:08] * wjp notices there's a patch in the patch tracker to fix a bug
[22:50:24] <wjp> ...but there's no patch attached to it
[22:50:30] <Colourless> heh
[22:50:32] <wjp> strange
[22:52:11] <Colourless> hmm, whatever it is, it would just involve setting the DONT_HAVE_HASH_MAP define from what i can tell
[22:52:20] <wjp> yes, probably
[22:52:45] <wjp> is there any particular reason we have 'DONT_HAVE_HASH_MAP' define, and not a 'HAVE_HASH_MAP' ?
[22:53:08] <wjp> s/have/have a/
[22:53:23] <Colourless> not sure. it's just the way things are
[22:54:02] <wjp> most of the header-related defines seem to be of the 'HAVE_SMTH' kind
[22:54:26] <Colourless> i think it is because everything was first programed with hash_map and later it was patched so compilers that didn't have hash_map could be used
[22:54:41] <Colourless> applies to hash_set as well
[22:54:46] <wjp> how many elements are in those hash maps/sets anyway?
[22:54:59] <Colourless> pathfinding can be nasty
[22:55:04] <wjp> hm, yes
[22:55:35] * wjp wonders what kind of algorithm it uses that it needs a map
[22:55:50] <wjp> but that's something for later
[22:55:53] <wjp> I have to go
[22:55:56] <Colourless> cya
[22:55:59] <wjp> 'night
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