#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 19 Dec 2000 (GMT)

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[00:09:19] <jameson> Woo-hoo! cvs finally works! :-)
[00:10:54] <wjp> great!
[00:11:59] <jameson> Do you think I should re-name alpha_kludges.h to system_kludges.h again?
[00:12:22] <jameson> I was thinking that some other archs/compilers might have problems, too, so they could be placed in there...
[00:12:25] <wjp> re-re-name you mean? :-)
[00:12:30] <jameson> Er.... ;-)
[00:12:59] <jameson> Max thought alpha_kludges.h was less ambiguous (after all, there's only Alpha/Linux/cxx stuff in there ATM).
[00:13:08] <jameson> He does have a point, of course...
[00:13:39] <wjp> let's keep it this way until other system get kludges too :-)
[00:13:52] <jameson> Sounds OK.
[00:14:28] <wjp> I don't really mind either way, but atm alpha_kludges sounds more logical
[00:14:52] * jameson considers breaking gcc on PPC so he can re-re-name things again...
[00:15:19] <jameson> Actually, alpha_linux_cxx_kludges.h would be most appropriate then.
[00:15:31] <jameson> You don't need it to _compile_ with g++ on Alpha/Linux.
[00:15:47] <jameson> Neither do you need it (AFAIK) to compile with Tru64 on the Alpha with cxx.
[00:16:37] <jameson> However, I'm the one who has to type that header name most of the time, so I'm happy with alpha_kludges.h for the time being... ;->
[00:16:45] <wjp> alpha_linux_cxx_kludges.h?
[00:16:48] <wjp> hmmm... :-)
[00:17:36] <jameson> alpha_linux_dec_cxx_kludges.h would be even more appropriate; it's possible that there are other cxx compilers...
[00:17:36] <wjp> alpha_linux_cxx_with_special_linker_kludges.h?
[00:17:52] <jameson> Ah, right. Also, it's now Compaq's cxx, so it should be alpha_linux_formerly_dec_but_now_compaq_cxx_with_special_linker_kludges.h.
[00:18:05] <wjp> ok, now we're getting somewhere
[00:18:14] <jameson> That sounds good.
[00:18:19] <wjp> that should make it perfectly clear ;-)
[00:18:31] <jameson> Aren't there file systems that break on file names with more than 255 chars? :->
[00:18:41] <jameson> We've still got a few lines to go...
[00:18:43] * wjp was just thinking of that too :-)
[00:18:57] <wjp> I don't think 255 chars fits in one IRC message
[00:19:04] <jameson> Damn.
[00:19:18] <wjp> at least, that was the old RFC 13xx
[00:19:22] <jameson> Foiled again!
[00:19:27] <wjp> maybe it changed it the newer protocol
[00:19:46] <jameson> I don't think my ircii allows me to send more than 255.
[00:20:08] <wjp> only 126, in fact
[00:20:44] <wjp> minus header
[00:20:44] <jameson> Too bad.
[00:20:44] <wjp> so that's PRIVMSG #exult :<insert message here><LF>
[00:20:44] <jameson> Hmm... char or wchat?
[00:20:58] <jameson> s/wchat/wchar/
[00:21:00] <jameson> :-)
[00:21:00] <wjp> which leaves 128-8-8-1=111 chars
[00:21:12] <wjp> :-)
[00:21:33] <jameson> OTOH, we're only using readable characters...
[00:22:12] <wjp> true, and you can use 253 chars in an IRC message
[00:22:44] <wjp> so...
[00:23:07] <jameson> There, found it!
[00:23:24] <jameson> Knuth describes a huffman tree for english chars, plus blank (which we'll use for underscore).
[00:23:34] <jameson> Also, we can assume that the .h is implicit.
[00:24:08] <jameson> Now if I just knew the average code length...
[00:24:17] <jameson> less than 4 bits in any case.
[00:24:38] <wjp> that might just fit...
[00:24:45] <wjp> we'll just have to use many e's :-)
[00:24:54] <wjp> or a's, or whatever :-)
[00:25:06] <jameson> Ah! 4.2 bits!
[00:26:00] <jameson> '_' and 'e' are 3 bits...
[00:26:04] <jameson> the others are 4 or more.
[00:27:44] <jameson> Well, if we use 'e' and '_' exclusively, we can generate a 298 char filename (including the .h at the end).
[00:27:53] <jameson> Looks like he forgot about the terminator, though...
[00:28:25] <wjp> we can't include the .h with only 'e' and '_' :-)
[00:29:06] <wjp> oh, nm...
[00:29:15] * wjp gets it :-)
[00:29:35] <jameson> ;-)
[00:29:53] <jameson> Still, the -Wno-long-long is killing ld.
[00:30:05] <wjp> ?!?
[00:30:11] <jameson> (That Bastard!)
[00:30:24] <jameson> ld: unrecognized option `-Wno-long-long'
[00:30:39] <jameson> (Sorry for subject jumping ;-)
[00:30:45] <wjp> np :-)
[00:30:52] <-- chimera|work has left IRC (Client Exiting)
[00:31:07] <wjp> hmm... the -Wno-long-long should probably only be passed to the compiler
[00:31:39] <jameson> Right.
[00:31:59] <jameson> But cxx passes it on to ld...
[00:32:20] <jameson> Maybe Tru64 ld doesn't mind about that, or something like that...
[00:33:58] --> chimera|work has joined #exult
[00:37:43] <jameson> Added a switch to configure.in to fix that. Now it works.
[00:37:48] <jameson> Builds, that is.
[00:37:54] <jameson> Er, links, I mean.
[00:38:04] <jameson> X Error of failed request: BadWindow (invalid Window parameter)
[00:38:07] <jameson> Cool :->
[00:38:20] * wjp blinks
[00:38:23] <wjp> ummm
[00:38:35] <jameson> SDL was updated two days ago. Maybe they broke something.
[00:38:55] * jameson is using woody, which tends to break even libc from time to time
[00:39:16] <jameson> (Actually, it happened only once, but that was pretty frightening ;-)
[00:39:50] <wjp> ouch :-)
[00:42:09] <jameson> The thing was that nscd was being updated along with libc. Once the new nscd was installed, libc segfaulted when operating on FILE*s.
[00:42:41] <jameson> I guess they just missed one dependancy, which didn't matter too much since the updates of libc and nscd were over a week apart.
[00:42:55] <jameson> Unfortunately, I had been away for two weeks during that period ;-)
[00:43:06] <wjp> :-)
[00:45:18] <wjp> "As you step over the rune, a magical trap activates.
[00:45:33] <wjp> Nothing fancy - just searing flames that bake you inside your armor.
[00:45:48] <wjp> Fortunately, the flames die out when you reach a lovely golden brown,
[00:45:54] <wjp> as opposed to when you're well done."
[00:45:56] <wjp> :-)
[00:46:02] <jameson> lol! ;-)
[00:46:07] <jameson> Where's that from?
[00:46:11] <wjp> Exile 3
[00:46:23] <wjp> it's full of comments like that :-)
[00:46:29] <jameson> Ah! :-)
[00:46:41] <jameson> Maybe I can convince those guys to build it on the Alpha...
[00:46:49] <jameson> Um, they'd probably need one for that...
[00:46:59] <jameson> Maybe I can convince them to give me the sources...
[00:46:59] <wjp> get them to release the source while you're at it :-)
[00:47:01] <wjp> lol
[00:47:20] <jameson> Maybe I can cause emacs to fix all bugs automatically...
[00:47:35] <wjp> :-)
[00:47:47] <jameson> So much for maybes...
[00:47:49] <wjp> the interface _could_ be inproved in some points
[00:47:53] <jameson> Well, I can *ask* them. I think.
[00:48:03] <jameson> Does it require mouse use?
[00:48:21] <wjp> well...
[00:48:22] <wjp> not sure...
[00:48:34] <wjp> there are a lot of keyboard shortcuts, but I haven't found all of them yet
[00:48:44] <jameson> Ah.
[00:49:19] <wjp> There's this menu 'monsters' which lists every monster you've encountered, and gives more info when you select one.
[00:49:37] <wjp> however, I've got over 100 monsters in it, and it won't let me select the ones after nr. 100 :-(
[00:50:05] <jameson> Hmm, that's bad.
[00:50:19] <jameson> Maybe they were just trying to conserve memory that way.
[00:50:27] <jameson> Or do you need that information to finish the game?
[00:50:36] <wjp> not really
[00:50:44] <wjp> it can be useful at times, though
[00:51:10] <wjp> it tells whether monster are fire/cold/magic/poison-resistant, and that sort of thing
[00:51:28] <wjp> but you find out soon enough, anyway :-)
[00:51:34] <jameson> ;-)
[00:51:54] <jameson> Are there more than 100 distinct types of monsters, or does it list each and every single instance of a specific monster you killed?
[00:52:21] <wjp> then you'd need tens of thousands menu items :-)
[00:52:29] <wjp> no, there's over a 100 types of monsters
[00:52:40] <jameson> That's good :-)
[00:52:51] <jameson> Does it have polypiling?
[00:53:00] <wjp> polygons?
[00:53:01] <wjp> ummm
[00:53:03] <jameson> Can you eat magical rings to gain their abilities as intrinsics?
[00:53:13] <wjp> lol
[00:53:16] <jameson> Watch out! There's a polygon behind you!
[00:53:25] <wjp> it's tile based
[00:53:27] <jameson> You can actually do that in Nethack ;-)
[00:53:30] <wjp> U6 style graphics
[00:53:40] <wjp> from what I hear, you can do _anything_ in nethack :-)
[00:53:48] * jameson can't resist pointing out the good points of his favorite game
[00:54:00] <jameson> Good point ;-)
[00:54:42] * wjp has a nice long rest in a room filled with swampy gooey slimey garbage
[00:54:46] <chimera|work> hey guys! =]
[00:54:53] <wjp> hey Matt
[00:55:05] <jameson> Hi!
[00:55:10] <chimera|work> how's it going?
[00:55:43] <wjp> pretty good
[00:56:10] <wjp> almost finished Exile (I think/hope)
[00:56:43] <chimera|work> Exile?
[00:56:50] <chimera|work> do I know what is and have just forgotten? =(
[00:56:53] <jameson> Why do you hope for that?
[00:57:05] <wjp> it takes up _way_ too much time :-)
[00:57:18] <jameson> ;-)
[00:57:25] <wjp> Exile is a really addictive RPG, U6 style graphics, _huge_ game world
[00:58:19] <chimera|work> is it new? =]
[00:58:25] <wjp> no, not really
[00:58:29] <chimera|work> oh ..
[00:58:31] <chimera|work> single player?
[00:58:32] <wjp> 3-4 years I think
[00:58:34] <wjp> yes, SP
[00:58:45] <chimera|work> interesting ..
[00:59:20] <chimera|work> wanna see pictures of my Dragon's Lair game? I finally got them online =]
[00:59:23] <chimera|work> http://www.xmission.com/~redflame/daphne/mystuff/index.html
[00:59:54] * wjp prepares to wait 30 minutes while the pictures load
[01:00:03] * chimera|work grins at wjp's sorry cable
[01:00:13] <jameson> What's Dragon's Lair?
[01:00:20] <chimera|work> jameson: !!!!!!!
[01:00:21] <wjp> *gasp*
[01:00:22] <chimera|work> <grin>
[01:00:27] <jameson> Uh...
[01:00:28] <wjp> :-)
[01:00:28] <jameson> ;-)
[01:00:43] <chimera|work> jameson: it was an arcade game that came out in 1983 that used a laserdisc and rocked the video game industry
[01:00:44] * wjp only barely knows it either...
[01:01:09] <chimera|work> notice in the top picture, you can see that it is a cartoon on the screen
[01:01:34] <chimera|work> compared with other arcade games of the time, such as Donkey Kong, Centipede, Defender, this game's "graphics" were amazing
[01:01:38] <chimera|work> not to mention its sound
[01:01:55] <jameson> Interesting...
[01:02:23] <jameson> What about multiplayer? The only RPGish arcade game I remember was Gauntlet...
[01:02:57] <jameson> Wait, that looks like a "two player" button...
[01:03:06] <chimera|work> it is a two player button
[01:03:16] <chimera|work> you took turns
[01:03:17] * wjp hears on the radio that people aged 12-24 spend an average 15 hours/week behind a tv/computer-screen
[01:03:26] <chimera|work> (when one guy died, the other guy took a turn to play)
[01:03:36] <jameson> Like Xenon 2...
[01:03:47] <jameson> Still the graphics look amazing for a '83 game...
[01:03:51] <wjp> Xenon 2... long time ago :-)
[01:03:52] <jameson> (I mean, they're /colored/)
[01:04:08] <jameson> SCNR ;-)
[01:04:09] <chimera|work> the graphics were NTSC quality
[01:04:21] <chimera|work> (if NTSC can be associated with quality.. haha)
[01:04:34] <jameson> Sorry, can't make out too much, but it looks like it could be pretty impressive if seen in action.
[01:04:40] <jameson> I've never seen NTSC, though.
[01:05:19] <chimera|work> http://www.d-l-p.com/games/pages/lair.asp
[01:05:30] <chimera|work> if you are interested, there are many screenshots of Dragon's Lair on that page
[01:05:34] <wjp> what's NTSC? something like PAL?
[01:05:47] <chimera|work> yes... NTSC is the US/Canada television standard, similar to PAL
[01:07:10] <wjp> I see
[01:07:46] <jameson> Wow! For 1983 this is pretty _damn_ good.
[01:08:07] * jameson personally prefers the japanese drawing style over the US cartoon style, though.
[01:08:10] <chimera|work> jameson: yeah.. it was absolutely amazing
[01:08:38] <chimera|work> there were a few laserdisc games made using Japanese animation too
[01:09:19] <jameson> Are the scenes from http://www.d-l-p.com/games/pages/lair.asp from the actual game, or from cut scenes?
[01:09:48] <chimera|work> jameson: it's from the actual game
[01:11:02] <chimera|work> jameson: the game was not dynamic though...... you only had 1 right way you could go, if you went the wrong way you would die. So everything was "pre-rendered" so to speak. It was more of a memorization and timing based game than anything else (which was of coruse its drawback)
[01:12:19] <jameson> Well, many "interactive fiction" games from the mid-90s were similar in style, AFAIK.
[01:12:33] <jameson> (Never played any of them, just heard some rumors).
[01:12:46] <chimera|work> yes
[01:12:58] <chimera|work> games such as Reaches, Shadoan, Braindead 13
[01:14:46] <jameson> "Braindead 13"? Is that related to the movie "Braindead"?
[01:14:56] <chimera|work> I'm not sure
[01:15:01] <chimera|work> I think it was an original game
[01:16:46] * jameson just sent a mail to spiderweb asking for an Alpha port
[01:17:09] * jameson searches his drawers for flameproof underwear
[01:17:34] <chimera|work> hehe
[01:17:38] * jameson remembers loosing it at the end of Space Quest 3
[01:17:41] <chimera|work> you have an alpha?
[01:17:54] <jameson> Yes. That's why I'm trying to get Exult to work on it :-)
[01:18:16] * wjp finally finds the secret passage he's been hunting for 15 minutes
[01:18:45] <jameson> g++ generates broken tables there, but Compaq's cxx doesn't like the Debian system headers and requires a special 'ld', also it doesn't have hash_maps and hash_sets...
[01:18:48] <jameson> It's a long story ;-)
[01:19:03] <jameson> s/tables/virtual method tables/
[01:19:29] <chimera|work> jameson: that's too bad, I was hoping exult would just compile out of the box
[01:19:33] <wjp> also, we needed to use special integer types, that turn out to break the BeOS version
[01:19:44] <chimera|work> jameson: maybe if you can get it working on the alpha you can keep some of the exult programmers more honest <grin>
[01:19:45] <wjp> and, to fix that, we'll...
[01:19:59] <wjp> ?
[01:20:14] <jameson> Actually, g++ is broken on the Alpha, so it's not really the Exult team's fault...
[01:20:27] * chimera|work is assuming the reason it won't compile on exult is because some coders took a few shortcuts they ought not to have hehe
[01:20:35] <chimera|work> oh g++ is? oh ok ...
[01:20:41] <jameson> (Well, except for relying on sizeof(long)==8 and using hash_maps and hash_sets all over the place)
[01:20:41] <chimera|work> err compile on alpha that is
[01:20:43] <jameson> ;-)
[01:20:58] <wjp> since Max joined the team, we're not allowed to take shortcuts :-)
[01:21:10] <jameson> Good :-)
[01:21:39] <wjp> (unless he's not looking ;-) )
[01:21:45] <jameson> ;-)
[01:21:56] <chimera|work> wjp: oh yeah, the Mac factor
[01:22:10] <jameson> BTW, I forgot to change the new types to xu?int{8,16,32} etc.
[01:22:16] <chimera|work> using the SDL types should help ... ?
[01:22:22] <jameson> Sorry about that... now that CVS works, I can do that when I find the time.
[01:22:35] <jameson> Jeff doesn't want to rely on SDL for everything.
[01:22:43] <jameson> He's not using it in the map editor, AFAIK.
[01:23:03] <wjp> the graphics need SDL anyway
[01:23:45] <jameson> Well, you /can/ to graphis without SDL... and I think that's what he's doing in the map editor.
[01:24:26] <jameson> AFAIK, he's relying on GTK for all that stuff.
[01:24:30] <wjp> I see
[01:24:36] <wjp> I should take a look at it
[01:24:41] <chimera|work> well you should rely on SDL for everything
[01:24:52] <chimera|work> because it makes doing graphics on Win32 and Mac easy
[01:24:53] <wjp> I had another really weird idea for these types
[01:25:18] <wjp> make sure the Be header files are loaded before exult_types.h and then #define uint8 xuint8
[01:25:30] <jameson> Well, if he's using GTK for the map editor anyway, there's no need to add an extra dependancy for SDL.
[01:25:41] <jameson> wjp: Interesting idea.
[01:25:59] <wjp> I used it in Win32 for a Rectangle
[01:26:11] <jameson> I guess the correct approach would be to namespacify the typedefs, though...
[01:26:35] <jameson> But that would require even more typing.
[01:26:40] <wjp> yup
[01:26:49] <wjp> namespaces are starting to drive me slightly nuts
[01:27:20] <jameson> chimera: SDL may be nice on the Mac and on Win32, but I'm not sure whether it works on Solaris' or IRIX' X server.
[01:27:34] <wjp> I'm trying that, atm (solaris, that is)
[01:27:47] <wjp> well, not really _this_ moment, but I'm trying it :-)
[01:27:52] <jameson> ;-)
[01:28:14] <wjp> I couldn't get SDL to recognize X, last time I tried
[01:28:20] <chimera|work> jameson: I am almost positive it works on Solaris since one of the SDL developers uses solaris exclusively
[01:28:30] <chimera|work> (Yorrick)
[01:28:30] <wjp> which one?
[01:28:40] <wjp> not there :-(
[01:28:47] <wjp> maybe he's there tomorrow
[01:28:53] <chimera|work> Yorick maybe,... I can't remember if it's 1 'r' or two
[01:28:54] <wjp> (there being #sdl)
[01:29:01] <wjp> one 'r' I tink
[01:29:04] <wjp> think, even
[01:29:13] <chimera|work> yeah I think you're right
[01:30:41] <jameson> Still, you can run XFree86 on Solaris (AFAIK), which may be what he's doing. I have to admit that I don't see why there shouldn't be an SDL target for plain X11, though.
[01:30:55] <chimera|work> hmmm ...
[01:31:10] <chimera|work> well I don't know anymore so I can't ventuer any further opinions =]
[01:31:14] <chimera|work> venture
[01:31:27] <wjp> pity I don't have root on that solaris machine
[01:32:47] <jameson> I guess I ought to do some SDL programming, to get a feeling for that thing.
[01:33:20] <jameson> Does it support priority buffers?
[01:33:29] <jameson> (something like OpenGL's stencil or depth buffers)
[01:33:40] <wjp> dunno
[01:33:50] <wjp> I haven't really used it either
[01:34:17] <wjp> sdldoc.sourceforge.net/current <--- SDL docs
[01:36:05] <jameson> Hmm, doesn't look that way, but that should be OK if it allows direct access to the display buffer.
[01:36:23] <jameson> I guess OpenGL is the only thing that supports that kind of stuff.
[01:36:40] <wjp> SDL supports OpenGL
[01:36:58] <jameson> Yes, but I was considering writing an SDL-only target for FreeSCI.
[01:37:13] <wjp> I see
[01:37:35] <jameson> (We'll have a glx target anyway, if I can find the time to do that, since I'm too lazy to install libggi or SDL on that Indy box I borrowed)
[01:38:05] <chimera|work> I haven't done a lot of SDL programming, but enough to do some basic graphics, and some basic sounds
[01:38:11] <chimera|work> the SDL_mixer lib is _awesome_
[01:39:28] <jameson> Sounds good...
[01:42:27] * jameson wonders how much longer it will take until cvs co exult (non-anonymous for the first time) has finished
[01:42:36] <wjp> hehe :-)
[01:42:59] <wjp> should be...oh...roughly 15Mb?
[01:43:26] <wjp> probably a bit less
[01:43:37] <wjp> the docs directory contains a few big zips though
[01:43:39] * jameson starts searching for his eyes, which appear to have popped out of their sockets
[01:44:47] <wjp> hmm... ok... so 15Mb might be a very high estimate
[01:44:48] <jameson> 15 MB at 8 kbps takes a while indeed.
[01:44:59] * wjp does a make clean
[01:45:09] <wjp> 7 Mb
[01:45:18] <wjp> those .o files are really big :-)
[01:45:24] <wjp> 55 Mb before make clean
[01:45:33] <jameson> Arh.
[01:45:51] * jameson recalls that Alpha binaries tend to be three times the size of ia32 binaries.
[01:46:00] <wjp> lol
[01:47:37] * jameson starts comparing sizes of various binaries on his Alpha box an the old ia32 SuSE router/firewall in the basement
[01:47:44] <jameson> Hah! counterexample:
[01:47:56] <jameson> emacs is 2965688 bytes on ia32/Linux.
[01:48:16] <jameson> However, on the alpha, ls -l `which emacs` tells me emacs is just 23 bytes in size~
[01:48:19] <jameson> :-)
[01:48:32] <wjp> lol
[01:55:17] <jameson> I'm going to commit the Alpha patch now. Brace for impact...
[01:55:32] <wjp> k :-)
[01:59:50] <-- jameson has left IRC (Ping timeout for jameson[p3EE054BC.dip.t-dialin.net])
[02:00:31] --> jameson has joined #exult
[02:03:01] * wjp runs an update
[02:03:59] <wjp> re-autogen's, reconfigures, makes clean and builds
[02:04:10] <jameson> I'm not subscribed to the cvs list (I'm getting enough mail as is); did it work?
[02:04:33] <wjp> yup
[02:04:36] <jameson> (I'm asking because cvs wanted to commit a few other dirs, which were copies of the exult dir)
[02:04:46] <jameson> Ah, great.
[02:04:48] <wjp> it seems to have worked, anyway
[02:04:58] <jameson> I just wanted to leave...
[02:04:59] <jameson> ;-)
[02:05:02] <jameson> Great! :-)
[02:05:07] <wjp> don't see any weird things
[02:05:13] <jameson> Max will still kill be for uglyfying the code.
[02:05:42] <jameson> Does it work?
[02:05:53] <wjp> still compiling
[02:06:00] <wjp> I get longlong warnings
[02:06:01] <wjp> bah
[02:06:23] <wjp> did you turn them on by default?
[02:06:46] <jameson> No, I added a ./configure switch to turn them on...
[02:06:49] <jameson> I thought...
[02:07:12] <wjp> no, you didn't :-)
[02:07:22] <jameson> I *did* add a switch, though :-)
[02:07:31] <wjp> ok, you did that, but it doesn't switch :-)
[02:08:01] <jameson> OK, well, maybe ;-)
[02:08:11] <wjp> I'll fix it...
[02:08:16] <jameson> THX!
[02:08:27] <jameson> No need to do that if you have other stuff, though.
[02:08:35] <jameson> I'll fix it some other time.
[02:08:38] <wjp> you should read my AC_ARG_ENABLE tutorial I mailed to the list :-)
[02:08:56] <jameson> When was that?
[02:09:03] <wjp> few weeks ago
[02:09:19] <wjp> you can always browse the archives
[02:09:28] <wjp> (the subject had AC_ARG_ENABLE in it)
[02:09:40] <jameson> I'll do that, though I thought I understood how it worked.
[02:09:47] <jameson> Ah, whatever.
[02:09:47] <wjp> it works really weird
[02:10:06] <wjp> hmm... wait a second...
[02:10:19] * jameson waits a second
[02:10:34] * jameson waits another second
[02:11:02] <wjp> this is weird
[02:11:11] <wjp> it _should_ disable them by default
[02:11:17] <jameson> Ah...
[02:11:18] <wjp> but somehow it doesn't
[02:11:26] <jameson> You did ./configure?
[02:11:29] <chimera|work> either of you guys use AIM?
[02:11:33] <jameson> No.
[02:11:36] <wjp> chimera|work: no
[02:11:52] <jameson> Maybe the fourth parameter is evaluated iff --disable-xxx is used...
[02:11:54] <chimera|work> nor do I, I'm just trying to test this portfw rule for someone else <grin>
[02:12:01] <wjp> :-)
[02:12:44] * chimera|work fumbles with his disclaimer a bit too quickly =]
[02:13:11] <wjp> the last parameter is used when no parameters are specified
[02:13:36] <jameson> The last parameter or the 4th parameter?
[02:13:41] <wjp> the last one
[02:13:44] <jameson> OK.
[02:13:44] * wjp counts
[02:13:56] <wjp> last one is fourth one, right?
[02:13:59] <jameson> Er, yes.
[02:14:04] <jameson> In this case.
[02:14:39] * jameson thinks he'll need to get up again tomorrow.
[02:15:00] <wjp> it _is_ getting a bit late isn't it :-)
[02:15:05] <jameson> If something else is broken, please drop me a note... or drop it into the mailing list... or something like that. Someone will complain anyway... ;-)
[02:15:12] <jameson> I need to rest.
[02:15:22] * jameson builds a campfire and instructs his companions to stand guard.
[02:15:24] <wjp> goodnight
[02:15:25] <wjp> lol
[02:15:30] <jameson> Goodnight!
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[02:19:06] <chimera|work> I will take the first watch
[02:19:38] <chimera|work> wjp: BTW I am reading that Terry Goodkind book and Richard Cypher and Kahlan have just arrived at the mud people's village
[02:19:47] <chimera|work> and I am dying to know what her horrible secret is
[02:19:51] <wjp> :-)
[02:19:56] <chimera|work> it is driving me to keep reading!
[02:19:58] <wjp> I know the feeling :-)
[02:20:09] <chimera|work> "When will they reveal her secret?!!? *feverishly reading*"
[02:20:39] <chimera|work> I didn't like how they left the wizard behind either.. I liked having him around =]
[02:24:01] <wjp> :-)
[02:31:38] <wjp> hmm.. I think I just arrived at "the final fight"
[03:00:39] <wjp> ok, I should really go to bed now :-)
[03:00:53] <wjp> have fun reading :-)
[03:00:54] <wjp> bye
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[15:26:44] <matto> wjp!!
[15:26:49] <matto> are you here? =]
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