#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 19 Dec 2001 (GMT)

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[06:32:03] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult, an engine that plays U7 data files. Please read the documentation and the FAQ!!! (no more fluffing)
[06:32:03] --- Topic for #exult set by Dominus at Mon Dec 17 20:55:00 2001
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[06:41:50] * Wumpus sighs, nasty naughty crashing :(
[07:01:57] <Wumpus> wow
[07:02:06] * Wumpus finds various of the maps he made when he first played U7
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[08:07:14] <Wumpus> heehee at pentagram thread on the mailing list
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[08:13:49] * Darke greetingsbows.
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[08:15:51] <Kirben> What exactly is cmanip ?
[08:18:19] <Darke> It was a quick hack to allow me to modify the exult.cfg file in scripts and such to allow me to test ucxt, as I add/convert the config files to the conf/ format. It would also probably allow me to make regression test scripts for things.
[08:20:36] <Kirben> ok, should ucxt be portable ? I'm not sure how to complete a win32 compile
[08:21:46] <Darke> ucxt should compile under anything. I made a couple of changes so the file handling so it should work under MacOS the other day, but windows shouldn't have a problem.
[08:24:07] <Wumpus> hmm is exult.sf.net b0rked again?
[08:24:11] <Darke> There is a makefile.unix that should work under Cygwin. But I don't know about msvc.
[08:24:42] <Darke> exult.sourceforge.net works for me.
[08:25:14] <Wumpus> oh now it does again... odd
[08:26:28] * Wumpus hasn't actually had his companions complain about theft in exult SI at all, hmm (just going through the bug tracker again)
[08:32:36] <Wumpus> heehee wow
[08:32:49] <Wumpus> not bad :) I hung up and reconnected, and didn't ping out of IRC :)
[08:33:32] <Darke> <grin> Impressive.
[08:33:56] * Darke has done that before, but it was just a quick disconnect and reconnect of his cable modem.
[08:35:09] <Wumpus> took me a bit longer... *look in hand and go "umm, why am i holding a phone jack".... *fiddle around for ages trying to find where its supposed to fit*
[08:35:25] <Wumpus> (pulled on the wrong cable :P)
[08:37:05] <Wumpus> lol at soulharvester
[08:37:57] * Darke grins and earperks, "SoulHarvester? On the forums?"
[08:38:51] <Kirben> no sucess with makefile.unix under Cygwin or Mingw.
[08:39:12] <Wumpus> darke- actually at one of his bugs in the tracker :)
[08:39:17] * Wumpus has given up on the forum
[08:39:52] <Darke> Wumpus: Ahh... why given up on the forum? <grin> Too many useless threads, and useful threads turning into useless threads?
[08:40:28] <Wumpus> well that, but more the fact that its too annyoing to keep track of what i've read and not read
[08:40:58] <Wumpus> (within a thread, and even between threads, since i use 4 different browsers at various times)
[08:42:24] * Darke nods, he uses exactly one browser for the forum for that reason. He's just getting a bit sick of all the questions that are answered in the docs, being asked over and over and over again.
[08:44:00] <Kirben> g++ -g -Wall -O -Iinclude -I../ -I../../ -I../../conf/ -I../../files/ -DSIZEOF_
[08:44:01] <Kirben> SHORT=2 -DSIZEOF_INT=4 -c -o src/opcodes.o src/opcodes.cc
[08:44:01] <Kirben> src/opcodes.cc:58: parse error
[08:44:01] <Kirben> c:\mingw\bin\make.exe: *** [src/opcodes.o] Error 1
[08:46:46] <Kirben> adding -DEXULT_DATADIR=\"data\" makes no difference
[08:47:00] <Wumpus> darke- hehe, that too :)
[08:48:00] <Darke> Define this: HAVE_CONFIG_H since you probably have a config.h file in the root directory.
[08:49:48] <Kirben> no, config.h doesn't exist
[08:50:09] <Kirben> I'm just using makefile.unix with a few modifications
[08:52:43] <Darke> Weird. Have you got the 'latest' out of the cvs? If that isn't defined it should be calling the line just below what includes the "data/" string instead of EXULT_DATADIR.
[08:54:36] <Kirben> yes always the latest cvs
[08:58:25] <Wumpus> nis CVS currently broken?
[08:58:47] <Wumpus> make[3]: *** No rule to make target `../conf/libconf.la', needed by `cmanip'. Stop.
[08:58:48] <Wumpus> make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/michaelz/src/exult-cvs/tools'
[08:59:29] <Darke> Wumpus: No. cvs is working for me.
[08:59:38] <Wumpus> hmm
[09:00:35] <Darke> I just did a 'make clean; make' in conf/ and tools/ and it worked correctly.
[09:01:03] <Wumpus> hmmmmmmmm
[09:01:04] <Wumpus> :(
[09:01:17] * Wumpus tries make ing in tools
[09:01:20] <Wumpus> in conf, rather
[09:02:10] <Darke> Did you run autogen.sh to remake the make files, since I had to modify the tools/Makefile.am one to add cmanip. That might be what's causing the problem.
[09:02:35] <Wumpus> yeah, i just compiled straight out of cvs (ie in a "clean' directory)
[09:02:54] <Wumpus> well just using 'make' in conf made libconf.la ...
[09:03:34] <Wumpus> and it worked...
[09:03:42] <Wumpus> but thats still seedy, somewhere, i shouldn't ahve to do that manually
[09:06:06] * Wumpus hmms
[09:06:29] <Wumpus> how do people find out what flags are necessary for certain events to occur?
[09:07:22] * Darke ponders creating a 'fake' config.h for Cygwin/whatever, that might make things work easier.
[09:07:23] <Wumpus> eg, i want to test something out with mortegro when he's in the temple of whatever it is in SI, but i don't want to actually play the game to that point; any idea how i can arrange for him to be there ? I assume its both a flags and character fiddling thing?
[09:07:54] <Wumpus> (specifically i want to test what happends when he gets hit by the lightning in the original)
[09:08:36] <Darke> (flags) Check the usecode is the usual manner I'm guessing. <grin> ucxt did at one point in time have a function to output which flags were used by which functions, and visaversa, perhaps I should fix it.
[09:08:52] <Kirben> I don't think mingw likes "data/"
[09:09:41] * Wumpus should try ucxt i guess :) but i wouldn't even know where to begin working out what function i should be looking at
[09:13:44] <Kirben> odd if I change #ifdef HAVE_CONFIG_H to #ifndef HAVE_CONFIG_H it works
[09:13:47] <Darke> Kirben: It shouldn't even complain, unless overloading is getting confused. It wants cstring, string, cstring, and that's what it's getting.
[09:14:47] * Darke feels dumb.
[09:15:22] <Darke> Change the '#elif' line to '#else', and it should work, with the original '#ifdef HAVE_CONFIG_H'.
[09:15:52] <Kirben> ok, I thought that line looked unusual
[09:16:23] * Darke doesn't know what he was thinking when he altered that line. Admittedly, fixing makefile.unix was a late-night hack...
[09:17:10] <Kirben> are these warnings imporrant ?
[09:17:11] <Kirben> In file included from include/opcodes.h:8,
[09:17:12] <Kirben> from include/ucfunc.h:109,
[09:17:12] <Kirben> from include/ucdata.h:11,
[09:17:12] <Kirben> from src/ucdata.cc:11:
[09:17:12] <Kirben> ../../conf/Configuration.h: In method `bool Configuration::read_config_file(cons
[09:17:13] <Kirben> t char *)':
[09:17:16] <Kirben> ../../conf/Configuration.h:34: warning: control reaches end of non-void function
[09:17:17] <Kirben> `Configuration::read_config_file(const char *)'
[09:17:19] <Kirben> ?
[09:18:31] <Darke> Not in my code. <sigh> Thanks, just fixed it.
[09:19:25] <Darke> That line (conf.h:34) should read: { return read_config_file(std::string(input_filename)); }; -- I missed out the 'return';
[09:22:13] <Darke> <grin> I don't actually think anyone checks that return value, since the code should throw an exception if it fails anyway. At least I didn't have any problem compiling and running exult with that.
[09:23:08] <Kirben> one last problem, link failure:
[09:23:08] <Kirben> g++ -mwindows -mconsole -o ucxt src/opcodec_.o src/printucc.o src/stacki.o src/
[09:23:08] <Kirben> ucdata.o src/ucdump.o src/ucfunc.o src/opcodes.o ../../conf/Configuration.o ../.
[09:23:08] <Kirben> ./conf/XMLEntity.o ../../files/utils.o
[09:23:08] <Kirben> ../../conf/Configuration.o: In function `Configuration::set(char const *, int, b
[09:23:09] <Kirben> ool)':
[09:23:11] <Kirben> //C/cygwin/home/kirben/exult/usecode/ucxt/../../conf/Configuration.cc:102: undef
[09:23:13] <Kirben> ined reference to `snprintf(char *, unsigned int, char const *,...)'
[09:23:15] <Kirben> c:\mingw\bin\make.exe: *** [ucxt] Error 1
[09:24:30] <Darke> Isn't there a problem with snprintf's or something in cygwin? I think there's a define or our 'own' version of snprintf in the code somewhere.
[09:24:46] <Kirben> yes in mingw but workaround doesn't seem to be working
[09:25:19] <Kirben> usually -DHAVE_SNPRINTF -include mingw_kludges.h works
[09:25:44] <Kirben> mingw only has _snprintf
[09:27:39] <Darke> Weird.
[09:43:03] <Kirben> Why not make makefile.unix build and clean $(EXTOBJS) when needed ?
[09:43:12] <Wumpus> okay, bug hunting :)
[09:43:31] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("Bug hunting in exult/SI")
[09:44:27] <Kirben> The Exult bug list is really small.
[09:51:44] <Kirben> worked :)
[09:51:50] <Kirben> was just missing a space
[09:52:41] <sbx> why does Wumpus never stay very long :-|
[09:55:34] <Kirben> hmm how to tell if it works ?
[09:55:44] <Kirben> C:\Games\Exult>ucxt
[09:55:45] <Kirben> Ultima 7 usecode disassembler v0.6.2
[09:55:45] <Kirben> This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
[09:55:45] <Kirben> Please contact the application's support team for more information.
[09:56:07] * Darke blinks. Umm...
[09:56:30] <Kirben> just ran it from exult directory with exult running
[09:56:39] <Darke> I'm guessing that is a 'not working' message. <grin>
[09:57:10] <Kirben> does ucxt support need to be compiled in exult.exe too ?
[09:57:36] <Darke> No, no support is required in exult.
[09:58:14] <Darke> Try 'ucxt -nc' it may be failing trying to find exult.cfg...
[09:59:16] <Darke> And just 'ucxt -v' it will print out some more verbose information that may help to find where it's dying.
[10:00:00] <sbx> what is it requesting the Runtime do? :-)
[10:00:23] <Darke> Crash? <grin>
[10:00:31] <Kirben> exact same output for ucxt -nc
[10:00:44] * Darke nods.
[10:00:54] <Kirben> C:\Games\Exult>ucxt -v
[10:00:54] <Kirben> Ultima 7 usecode disassembler v0.6.2
[10:00:54] <Kirben> Parameters parsed...
[10:00:54] <Kirben> Loading exult configuration file...
[10:00:54] <Kirben> Initing static tables...
[10:00:55] <Kirben> Initing runtime tables...
[10:00:57] <Kirben> ucxtroot: data/
[10:00:59] <Kirben> This application has requested the Runtime to terminate it in an unusual way.
[10:01:01] <Kirben> Please contact the application's support team for more information.
[10:01:56] <Darke> Ok, it trying to locate it's 'opcodes.txt' datafile...
[10:02:33] <sbx> Darke = the application's support team
[10:02:47] <Darke> One thought might be to alter opcodes.cc:59 and remove the trailing slash from the "data/" string.
[10:02:55] <Darke> (To make it read "data".)
[10:03:00] <Kirben> oops didn't know it needed files, is working now
[10:03:07] <sbx> ...
[10:03:13] * Kirben slaps Kirben around a bit with a large trout
[10:03:26] <Darke> Ahh... cool. <grin>
[10:03:33] <Kirben> so this is correct ?
[10:03:34] <Kirben> C:\Games\Exult>ucxt
[10:03:34] <Kirben> Ultima 7 usecode disassembler v0.6.2
[10:03:34] <Kirben> Usage:
[10:03:34] <Kirben> ucxt [options] -a
[10:03:34] <Kirben> - prints all of the functions
[10:03:35] <Kirben> ucxt [options] <hex function number>
[10:03:37] <Kirben> - disassembles single function to stdout
[10:03:38] * Darke notices that that 'solution' wouldn't have solved th problem anyway.
[10:03:40] <Kirben> Misc Flags (any/all of these):
[10:03:41] <Kirben> -nc - don't look for exult's .xml config file
[10:03:44] <Kirben> -v - turns on verbose output mode
[10:03:45] <Kirben> -ofile - output to the specified file
[10:03:47] <Kirben> -ro - output the raw opcodes in addition to the -f format
[10:03:49] <Kirben> -ac - output an automatically generated comment
[10:03:51] <Kirben> in addition to the -f format
[10:03:53] <Kirben> Game Specifier Flags (only one of these):
[10:03:55] <Kirben> -bg - select the black gate usecode file
[10:03:57] <Kirben> -si - select the serpent isle usecode file
[10:03:59] <Kirben> Output Format Flags (only one of these):
[10:04:01] <Kirben> -fl - output using brief "list" format
[10:04:03] <Kirben> -fa - output using "assembler" format (default)
[10:04:05] <Kirben> -fs - output using "old exult script" format
[10:04:07] <Kirben> -fz - output using "exult script" format
[10:04:22] <Darke> Yep. It works 'perfectly'. <grin>
[10:04:57] <Darke> Try 'ucxt -v -ro -ac -fa -fz 96'. It'll print a large chunk of stuff. But if it doesn't crash, it should be working.
[10:05:20] <Darke> Oop... missed one 'ucxt -v -ro -ac -fl -fa -fz 96'.
[10:05:37] <Kirben> didn't crash :)
[10:05:53] <Kirben> Is there a makefile.unix for ucc ?
[10:06:52] <Darke> Cool. In which case it 'works'. <grin> Nice work. No, there's not makefile.unix for ucc, the makefile.unix was only used by me before ucxt was added to the configure system.
[10:07:50] * sbx is not proficient enough in autoconf/automake yet to use a configure system for any of his projects. :-)
[10:08:28] <Darke> sbx: I get KDevelop to do it's automatic generation of them for me. <grin> I only know enough to do some very basic modifications to them.
[10:08:42] <Kirben> hmm how are ucparse.yy uclex.ll compiled ?
[10:08:53] <sbx> yacc/bison?
[10:09:01] <Darke> flex and bison IIRC.
[10:09:17] <sbx> oops! flex/bison
[10:10:01] <Kirben> neither availabe with default mingw
[10:10:04] <sbx> bison is like yacc
[10:10:10] <sbx> Kirben: are you in win32?
[10:10:20] <Kirben> yes
[10:10:22] * Darke only remembers the names because they're puns on the original lex/yacc.
[10:10:41] <Kirben> I'm using mingw32 with cygwin shell
[10:10:44] <sbx> ooh.. i dont have lex installed :P
[10:11:22] <sbx> i thought exult was cross-compiled for win32
[10:11:29] <Darke> IIRC Cygwin has versions that 'work'. But you might be able to get the source to flex/bison and compile it with them.
[10:11:35] <sbx> and they said cygwin is slower
[10:12:10] <Kirben> I only use Cygwin as shell
[10:16:21] <sbx> hehe <Wumpus> took me a bit longer... *look in hand and go "umm, why am i holding a phone jack".... *fiddle around for ages trying to find where its supposed to fit*
[10:16:49] <Kirben> I will leave ucc for now, prefer to keep tools win32 native
[10:17:27] <sbx> hnn
[10:17:28] <sbx> hmm
[10:17:42] <sbx> Darke: Can you add some fluff to the topic?
[10:18:28] <Darke> Kirben: <nod> No problem. Another idea might be to add the flex/bison generated files to cvs or something. <grin> Although I know that I'll probably get barbequed for suggesting such a thing.
[10:19:19] <sbx> ucparse.cc uclex.cc ?
[10:19:21] <Darke> sbx: Any particular reason why? <querywiggle>
[10:19:29] <sbx> hehe query wiggle
[10:19:36] <Darke> sbx: That would be them.
[10:19:48] <sbx> Darke: because Dominus has no right to declare this a fluff free zone :P
[10:20:42] --- Darke has changed the topic to: exult: <fluff> An engine that plays U7 data files. <fluff> Please read the <fluffing> documentation and the FAQ! <fluff!>
[10:20:56] <Darke> That better? <innocentwiggle>
[10:20:56] <sbx> ...
[10:21:04] <sbx> <fluffing> documentation? hehe
[10:21:33] <sbx> that is good
[10:21:35] <sbx> thanks
[10:21:37] * Darke persists in looking innocent.
[10:21:44] <sbx> Now.. anyone know how to use mc's undelete feature? I'm having trouble with the man page. :P
[10:22:22] <Darke> Umm... I've never used it. Sorry, can't help.
[10:23:22] <sbx> Hmm I think the problem is I need to be root, I'll try it again.
[10:24:21] <sbx> nope
[10:24:39] <sbx> Wumpus knows how
[10:25:13] * sbx did `rm -r ~/tmp` and then a second later realized he didn't just have temporary files in ~/tmp. :P
[10:26:03] * Darke points out this is the reason that you only put temporary files in */tmp <grin>
[10:26:51] * sbx realizes this now.
[10:27:33] <sbx> would catting /dev/hda3 while it is mounted cause any problems?
[10:27:47] <sbx> catting... i mean concatenating it to stdout
[10:28:11] <sbx> i dont think it should if since im only reading it.
[10:29:22] <Darke> It shouldn't affect it.
[10:36:22] <sbx> Darke: tried the web browser Opera TP6?
[10:41:59] <Kirben> Does it matter if debug is already defined ?
[10:42:00] <Kirben> g++ -O2 -Wno-long-long -include mingw_kludges.h -DVERSION=\"0.97cvs\" -DEXULT_DA
[10:42:00] <Kirben> TADIR=\"data\" -DDEBUG -DSIZEOF_SHORT=2 -DSIZEOF_INT=4 -I./imagewin -I./shapes -
[10:42:00] <Kirben> I./files -I./files/zip -I./gumps -I./objs -I./tools -I. -I./audio -I./conf -I./p
[10:42:00] <Kirben> athfinder -I./usecode -I./usecode/ucxt/src -I./usecode/ucxt/include -I./data -I.
[10:42:02] <Kirben> /sdl/include -DHAVE_SNPRINTF -I./zlib-1.1.3 -DHAVE_ZIP_SUPPORT -c -o usecode/
[10:42:04] <Kirben> ucxt/src/printucc.o usecode/ucxt/src/printucc.cc
[10:42:06] <Kirben> usecode/ucxt/src/printucc.cc:18: warning: `DEBUG' redefined
[10:42:17] <Kirben> Just trying to merge the makefiles
[10:43:15] <Darke> Kirben: It doesn't appear to matter, but I'm going to remove it from my code and call it something else. It's a hold-over from before ucxt was added to the configure process.
[10:43:28] <Kirben> ok
[10:43:34] <Darke> sbx: Nope. I've never tried Opera. I just tend to stick with Mozilla and Konqueror.
[10:43:55] <sbx> Darke: Ok just trying to figure how to use a certain feature.
[10:48:41] <Darke> sbx: No problem. Incidentally have you noticed any speed improvements with ucxt? Or haven't you used the latest version yet? <grin>
[10:50:40] <sbx> I havn't used it yet. Later I'm gonna finish working on this ucassembler(havn't touched it in days) and then get new ucxt and make sure they are compatible.
[10:53:40] * Darke nods.
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[11:04:44] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[11:04:48] <wjp> hi
[11:05:20] <sbx> hi
[11:05:27] <Kirben> Hi wjp
[11:06:06] <Darke> Hi wjp. <bow>
[11:12:05] --> Wumpus has joined #exult
[11:12:35] <Wumpus> surprising how many of the things i thought were exult bugs, are actually SI bugs :)
[11:14:36] <Darke> <grin> Yes.
[11:14:50] <sbx> hi Wumpus
[11:14:55] <sbx> can you help me with mc?
[11:15:02] <Wumpus> whats mc? :P
[11:15:13] <sbx> hehe, its undelfs
[11:15:15] <Wumpus> i still have a number though :)
[11:15:17] <Wumpus> oh
[11:15:25] <Wumpus> i had trouble getting mc to behave itself lately
[11:15:41] <Wumpus> i'd go into the undelfs, and it'd read the hard drives inodes, and then just keep on reading... something... and never stop
[11:15:50] <Wumpus> which is why i restorted to the manual trick just now
[11:15:57] <sbx> i don't even know how to use it
[11:15:57] <Wumpus> but when its working, mc isn't toooo hard, is it?
[11:16:10] <Wumpus> oh, hmm
[11:16:10] <sbx> I type cd /#undelfs:hda3 and it says it cant open it
[11:16:22] <sbx> #undel even
[11:16:35] <sbx> Can't open device /dev/hda3
[11:16:46] <Wumpus> hmm
[11:16:56] <Wumpus> its definitely hda3? :P
[11:17:05] <wjp> could it still be mounted? are you running as root?
[11:17:15] <sbx> yes its still mounted i didnt know that was a problem
[11:17:17] <Wumpus> oh yeah, you definitely need to run as root
[11:17:22] <sbx> i tried it as root and not as root
[11:17:32] <sbx> should i unmount it?
[11:17:38] <Wumpus> it doesn't stritly speaking need to be unmounted, i've done it while it was mounted, but its probably a Good Idea :)
[11:17:40] <wjp> the first thing you want to do is unmount it so you can't accidently overwrite them
[11:17:41] <Wumpus> s/probably/definitely/ :)
[11:17:47] <Wumpus> exactly :)
[11:17:49] <sbx> i didnt plan on writing
[11:17:50] <wjp> then = lost files
[11:17:56] <wjp> no, but the OS may be
[11:18:08] <sbx> huh? oh you mean unmounted it after i did the accidental deletion
[11:18:11] <sbx> oops
[11:18:22] <sbx> that was a while ago :P
[11:18:46] <Wumpus> well have a look anyway, depending on how full your partition is it'll probably still be there
[11:18:54] <Wumpus> but it makes it much harder to find the right thing, the longer you wait
[11:18:57] * Wumpus reinstalls mc
[11:19:03] * sbx hopes his 10% fragmentation serves a purpose here and keeps them from being overwritten
[11:19:17] <sbx> ok ill unmount it now
[11:19:42] <Wumpus> i find it easier to just use the menus in any case... (rather than cd whatever it is)
[11:20:05] <Wumpus> F9 lets you use the menus; undelfs is on Command | Undelete files
[11:20:35] <sbx> uh oh i think xchat is writing logs there
[11:20:39] <-- sbx has left IRC ("Push push push, add jmp mul pop, push call sub mod, in smth say...")
[11:20:53] <Wumpus> what partition are you unmounting? /home ?
[11:21:19] <Wumpus> if so, you'll have to log out and log back in as root (since root's home dir isn't on /home, for just this reason) (well not only this reason...)
[11:21:32] <wjp> he's gone :-)
[11:21:36] <Wumpus> oh
[11:21:39] <Wumpus> bah :)
[11:23:18] * Darke grins.
[11:24:03] <Wumpus> d'oh
[11:24:07] <Wumpus> i didn't make a save at one of my bugs
[11:24:08] <Wumpus> stuupid
[11:25:06] --> sbx has joined #exult
[11:25:08] <sbx> hi
[11:25:34] <Wumpus> hehe re :)
[11:25:51] <sbx> I figured out what the problem is... you were right Wumpus, it was not hda3.
[11:25:59] * Wumpus hax0rs sbx' client and does evil things while he's ircing as root :)
[11:26:00] <sbx> I should've been using hdb3
[11:26:05] <Wumpus> sbx- lol :)
[11:26:05] <sbx> eep
[11:26:35] <sbx> now that im looking at thousands of inode numbers it gives me a hint
[11:26:43] <Wumpus> hehe
[11:26:45] <sbx> "Hint: Bring back text from the dead with C-y"
[11:27:01] <Wumpus> sort them by one of the times (and thats not a useful hint at this time, i think :P)
[11:27:17] <sbx> does ext2fs keep deleted file info for this purpose?
[11:27:21] <Wumpus> eg, dtime if you know roughly when you deleted it, or one of theo thers if you know that... whicherver
[11:27:39] <Wumpus> no, it doesn't keep names etc, as far as i can tell... you can only go on timestamps and sizes
[11:28:03] <sbx> what do i sort by?
[11:28:05] * Wumpus hmms... I restored a game where the fawn drawbridge was half up... and its staying *half* up :) i can climb up it, hehe
[11:28:14] <sbx> there is Modify time access time and changed time
[11:28:18] <Wumpus> sbx- probably dtime is best (time deleted)
[11:28:20] <Wumpus> oh hmm
[11:28:34] <sbx> hehe i dont know anything about fawn of course :P
[11:28:49] <Wumpus> modify i think would be the one then...
[11:28:58] <Wumpus> *checks what he had... luckily the config files are still there*]
[11:29:16] <Wumpus> yeah, mtime...
[11:29:46] <sbx> what were you saying about some Undelete option in the menu? i did cd /#undel:hdb3
[11:30:01] <Wumpus> *shrug* if that works for you, cool :) i just find the mneu easier
[11:30:17] <Wumpus> the comamnd menu has an 'undelete files' option... different way of getting the same result
[11:30:18] <sbx> what would it do?
[11:30:29] <Wumpus> exactly the same as cd <blah> i suppose :)
[11:30:30] <sbx> ie how would it know what device
[11:30:37] <sbx> it opens a text box?
[11:30:43] <Wumpus> yep
[11:30:57] <sbx> i see.. thanks.. can you tell me how to view the stuff now?
[11:31:00] <sbx> C-y?
[11:31:07] <Wumpus> F3 i think
[11:31:26] <Wumpus> yeah, F3 launches the internal text viewer thingie
[11:31:35] <Wumpus> (on the selected file)
[11:31:44] <Wumpus> (or inode, as the case might be ;-p)
[11:31:45] <sbx> aah i see
[11:32:05] * sbx views an licq userinfo file.
[11:32:22] <Wumpus> hmm i've broken fawns gate :) it now closes when i approach it and opens when i walk away
[11:32:33] <Wumpus> (you can do this in the Real Thing too, its not an exultism :P)
[11:32:58] <sbx> maybe they dont like you
[11:33:02] <Wumpus> jk- yeah, i was just saying... odd *Shrug* oh well :)
[11:33:05] <Wumpus> bah
[11:33:11] * Darke grins, "Always nice to know."
[11:33:11] <Wumpus> sbx- but i'm inside :P
[11:33:51] <sbx> maybe they really like you
[11:34:29] <sbx> ps ax
[11:34:31] <sbx> oops
[11:35:22] <Wumpus> hmm interesting
[11:35:37] <Wumpus> alyssand's schedule is completely different here than it was when i was just playing 'real' SI
[11:35:45] <sbx> what is it here?
[11:35:56] <Wumpus> does exult's "schedule changing" work correctly?
[11:36:27] <sbx> works for me
[11:36:35] <Wumpus> 12am - sleep, 9am stand, 12pm sew, 9pm eat; in "real" SI it was 9pm sleep, 9am, 12pm, 3pm, 6pm - talk (each)
[11:36:48] <Wumpus> *Shrug* i might be looking at it after or before some logic has been triggered, *shrug*
[11:36:53] <Wumpus> s/logic/usecode/
[11:37:10] <sbx> she stands for 3 hours
[11:37:14] <sbx> ouch
[11:37:35] <sbx> and sews for 9
[11:37:40] <Wumpus> oh bugger, even this save is too late... d'ooooh
[11:38:09] <Wumpus> sbx- *nod* i'm just wondering what induced the talk/sleep schedule i saw in The Real Thing earleir... *shrug* can't be bothered looking ito it too closely though :P
[11:40:00] <sbx> there are a lot of browser cache files in the undelfs
[11:40:10] <Wumpus> not surprising :)
[11:41:21] <Wumpus> noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
[11:41:28] <Wumpus> even this file i've already chased zulith of
[11:41:30] <Wumpus> +f
[11:41:32] * Wumpus growls
[11:41:47] <Wumpus> dupre is a damn idiot
[11:42:00] <sbx> ...
[11:42:05] <sbx> that was true in BG too, and a drunk
[11:42:13] <Wumpus> yeah well
[11:42:41] <Wumpus> he's completely oblivious to the fact that people in SI *don't like* lord british... no matter *how many times* it comes up ;-p
[11:43:43] <Wumpus> oh wow, i did have a save at the right place. ... *phew*
[11:44:40] <sbx> Disclaimer on syncfb kernel module doc: "WARNING ----- WARNING This code messes with your video card and your xserver. It will probably lock up your box, format your hard drive, and cause your brand new g400 MAX to spout six inch flames. You have been warned. WARNING ----- WARNING"
[11:45:01] <Wumpus> :)
[11:45:27] * Darke giggles.
[11:45:44] <Wumpus> heehee
[11:45:50] <Wumpus> zulith has a"hound' schedule
[11:46:16] <sbx> whats that do?
[11:46:44] <Wumpus> i thought it was lke dogs, but maybe not
[11:48:00] <sbx> maybe it is the opposite of Shy
[11:48:16] <Wumpus> yeah, that would kind of make sense
[11:48:22] <wjp> it's just an english verb, you know :-)
[11:48:34] <Wumpus> and noun, too :)
[11:50:11] <sbx> would Allysand have that too? isnt that the girl in Monitor who follows you when you get into the town
[11:50:35] <Wumpus> nah, i don't think alysand follows you at all
[11:50:38] <wjp> that's Cantra
[11:50:40] <Wumpus> seh just finds you a few times
[11:50:44] <wjp> (sp?)
[11:50:48] <Wumpus> cantra doesn't follow you either does she?
[11:51:00] <wjp> sure?
[11:51:05] <Wumpus> yes :)
[11:51:09] <sbx> cantra
[11:51:21] * Wumpus has tried it just now in The Real Thing, and a few weeks ago in exult :P
[11:51:54] <sbx> the only reason i remember is i wouldnt have talked to that girl had she not been so close to me :P
[11:52:11] <sbx> it seems that if your standing on the screen with her she walks up to you
[11:52:17] <Wumpus> you probably mean cantra; she's kind of in the way at the begininng :-)
[11:52:29] <sbx> yea i said i meant cantra
[11:52:32] <Wumpus> yeah, that would be likely, but she doesn't keep at it
[11:52:47] <Wumpus> (unlike zulith, who only gives up once you tell him off ;-p
[11:52:58] <Wumpus> heehee
[11:53:07] <Wumpus> i'ev managed to have zulith follow me all the way to the cow paddock :)
[11:53:10] <sbx> never thought she followed you around either, by "follow" i meant kinda being acoming close
[11:53:17] <Wumpus> he's supposed to give up once yuo're far enough away from fawn ;-p
[11:53:24] <sbx> i should play SI
[11:53:28] <Wumpus> ah hehe okie :)
[11:53:32] <Wumpus> you should :) its good
[11:53:50] <sbx> the furthest i got is through the Knights test
[11:54:01] <sbx> i went to fawn too
[11:54:14] <sbx> but i quit before going inside
[11:54:43] <Wumpus> hehe a savegame called "King Porthingie" :P
[11:54:52] <sbx> Exult savegame?
[11:54:59] <Wumpus> yeah :P
[11:55:11] <Wumpus> Pormidogrun or whatever is what it should have said :P
[11:58:50] <sbx> what are the differences between SI and Exult?
[11:59:13] <Wumpus> huh?
[11:59:27] <sbx> what are the differences between SI and Exult?
[11:59:41] <wjp> huh?
[11:59:42] <Wumpus> yeah i heard the first time... but can't make sense of the question :)
[12:00:09] <sbx> What is not implemented in Exult, or is implemented incorrectly, that was in the original SI?
[12:00:17] <Wumpus> I just use the DOS version to double check some of the bugs before complaining officially about them
[12:00:33] <Wumpus> ah... um... stair teleporters are probably the most painful glitch
[12:00:52] <Wumpus> otherwise, there are just the usual enhancements... nicer cheat system, more savegames, more shotcut keys, etc
[12:02:14] <Wumpus> hehe, anyone else here actually palyed SI? remember how the chaos hierophant appeared, (incorrectly) in the powdermakers workshop in the original....
[12:02:28] <Wumpus> when i was playing through in exult, he also appeared incorrectly... but in a completely different place :)
[12:03:01] <sbx> How much longer is SI over BG?(assuming that you do some but not all of BG's subplots)
[12:03:43] * Wumpus couldn't really say... it seems much longer to me, but i'm documenting a lot more than i was when i plyed BG in exult, sincei 'd already extensively documented that :)
[12:04:31] <Wumpus> brb, making a bug save
[12:05:25] <sbx> I think I will start a game of BG in Exult soon and then after Christmas start a SI game in the original.
[12:05:37] <sbx> (after I finish the BG game)
[12:06:09] <sbx> i'll play through bg in exult to see the bugs
[12:07:18] <Wumpus> there's not all that much left in BG, form what i saw
[12:07:24] <Wumpus> and i know BG a lot better than i do SI :)
[12:07:29] <sbx> it would be nice to have an old 386 handy
[12:07:47] <sbx> i wonder if i can find one for free somewhere :P
[12:08:01] <sbx> Wumpus: what about the oddly coloured blodd?
[12:08:04] <sbx> blood
[12:08:11] <Wumpus> *shrug* thats fairly minor :)
[12:08:25] <Wumpus> (its not oddly coloured blood, its misnamed water isn't it?)
[12:08:44] * Darke has an old 386 sitting upstairs with two _massive_ 128MB hdds. It worked the last time he turned it on.
[12:08:55] <Wumpus> hehe :) which was a decade ago? :)
[12:09:12] <sbx> if the water is supposed to be neon green i guess
[12:09:32] <Darke> Misnamed 'liquid'. <grin> There's a few different colours of it.
[12:09:33] <Wumpus> neon green? hehe didn't see that?
[12:09:43] <Wumpus> sounds like vomit :)
[12:10:01] <sbx> two locations i remember are at locke lake, and in the blacksmiths shop in trinish
[12:10:03] <sbx> trinsic
[12:10:51] <Wumpus> yeah, i'm fairly usre the one in the blacksmith's shop is supposed to be vomit... can't remember what the original said about it though, maybe nothing
[12:11:02] * Wumpus muahahas
[12:11:07] <Wumpus> 9 saves in my upload directory :)
[12:11:43] <sbx> how much would a 386 go for these days?
[12:11:56] <sbx> upload directory?
[12:12:09] <sbx> (directory of files im meaning to upload to bugtracker?)
[12:12:17] <Wumpus> indeed :)
[12:12:22] <sbx> hehe
[12:12:31] <Wumpus> i really sohuld report stuff when i encounter it, but oh well :)
[12:12:45] <Wumpus> and one is two bugs rolled into one save, too :)
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[12:13:41] <Colourless> hi
[12:13:43] <sbx> hi
[12:13:47] <Darke> Hi Colourless.
[12:14:48] <Kirben> Hi Colourless
[12:16:39] <sbx> what file format starts with P7 332 #IMGINFO:810x514 RGB () #END OF COMMENTS ....
[12:16:40] <sbx> ?
[12:17:17] <Wumpus> hrmmmm.. an extension of P{g,b,p}M ? PGM and friends use P1 through P6...
[12:17:40] <Wumpus> what does file say? ASCII text? :P
[12:17:44] <Wumpus> the 'file' command that is
[12:17:56] <sbx> i cant file a deleted inoe
[12:17:57] <sbx> inode
[12:18:02] <Wumpus> oh :)
[12:18:22] <sbx> maybe it is PNG
[12:18:28] <Wumpus> i doubt that
[12:18:46] <sbx> why would i have PGM images?
[12:18:54] <Wumpus> 0 string P7 Netpbm PAM image file
[12:19:01] <Colourless> i have a feeling it's a graphics file stored in RGB 332 format with dimentions 810x514 :-)
[12:19:02] <Colourless> of course 332 is a shitty format
[12:19:13] <sbx> Netpbm PAM?
[12:19:48] <Wumpus> sbx- as i had guessed, its in the PGM/PPM/PBM school... not a type i had been familiar with. A picture, certainly
[12:19:49] <sbx> well i know one thing i deleted was an old Tetrinet archive
[12:20:44] <Colourless> i take it you want to read it?
[12:21:08] <Wumpus> well you'll have to save a copy to somepalce to read it... xv should do the trick, i hope :)
[12:23:25] <sbx> is it possible it will be corrupted since i didnt unmount /home fast enough?
[12:23:29] * sbx will find out...
[12:23:52] <Wumpus> its possible, yeah *shrug* but there's always that risk :(
[12:24:01] <Darke> BTW, this: http://www.input-entertainment.de/laser/ is back up.
[12:24:14] * sbx should try that game.
[12:24:20] <sbx> what happened to it?
[12:25:26] <Darke> 'Server overload' was their reasoning IIRC. They removed it until they could locate a 'better' server and an advertiser to advertise on the page. <grin>
[12:26:21] <sbx> an advertiser :-)
[12:26:57] <sbx> ok 'file' just says: data
[12:27:07] <sbx> (on one of those undeleted images )
[12:28:00] <Wumpus> hmm try viewing it with something.... but since my `file' nows about PAM images, it might really have been corrupted :( still, worth a try with xv or whatever
[12:29:11] <sbx> i think it is because in the comments it lists it as 11705 bytes but what i got is only 3669
[12:29:40] <sbx> xv shows text :O
[12:30:03] <Wumpus> hehe sounds unhelathy :(
[12:30:17] <Wumpus> were you really after piccies? can't get them again?
[12:30:29] <Wumpus> yaay *uploads*
[12:30:34] <Wumpus> first one, anyway :)
[12:30:52] <sbx> no i wasnt sure what was in the ddirectory when i did rm -r but i think i had something in there
[12:31:12] <sbx> to get the files out do i just F5-Copy to a new file somewhere?
[12:31:13] <Wumpus> oh hehe :) don't know what yuo're looking for, thats bad :(
[12:31:17] <Wumpus> *Nod*
[12:31:28] <Wumpus> (not sure about F5, but yeah, the copy command :P)
[12:35:43] <-- sbx has left IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
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[12:38:05] * sbx restores a PCX of SoulHarvester fighting pirates. :P
[12:39:46] <Wumpus> hehe :)
[12:42:11] <wjp> hey, reflections is not only back up (thanks Darke :-) ), but it has new levels too
[12:44:08] <sbx> do I need Flash to try that later?
[12:45:11] <wjp> yeah
[12:45:23] <sbx> beh
[12:54:09] * Darke wonders how badly their server is getting hit. <grin> He did notice an extra 3? 4? levels they had added.
[13:03:04] <sbx> looks like i got a .gaim configuration archive here
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[13:04:58] <sbx> i have a big portion of SoulHarvester's house building tutorial
[13:06:16] * sbx isn't sure he deleted anything "important" at all.
[13:07:00] <sbx> well unless 2 Quake DM maps are important
[13:07:43] <sbx> ooh i do got some interesting things in here
[13:08:17] <-- Kirben2 has left IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
[13:10:36] <sbx> Wumpus?
[13:10:53] <Wumpus> yes?
[13:11:05] * Wumpus is ahlf here, bugging :)
[13:11:08] <sbx> Do you know how to select files ? :-)
[13:11:19] <Wumpus> umm... hehe, no, not off the top of my head
[13:11:25] <Wumpus> it can be done, but i know i always had trouble working out how
[13:11:36] <Wumpus> I think i only ever worked it out once, in fact :|
[13:12:23] <wjp> right mouse or '+' ?
[13:12:41] <sbx> that wants a file mask
[13:12:50] <wjp> right mouse doesn't
[13:12:50] <sbx> i just wanted to select a few of them
[13:13:01] <sbx> do i need gpm on?
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[13:13:20] <wjp> you're not in X?
[13:13:33] <-- Kirben has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
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[13:13:34] <sbx> no
[13:13:47] <Wumpus> mc doesn't hace an x interface anyway does it?
[13:14:01] <wjp> no, but the X mouse does work
[13:14:19] <Wumpus> ooh cool :) never tried that
[13:15:07] <wjp> insert selects files, btw
[13:15:45] <sbx> thanks it does
[13:15:53] <wjp> 'man mc' :-)
[13:15:55] <sbx> right mouse just pasted with gpm :)
[13:16:26] <sbx> ok wasnt sure it even did it
[13:18:05] * sbx restores several MB of data.
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[13:23:36] <-- Kirben has left IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
[13:25:07] <sbx> hmm
[13:27:07] * sbx undeletes everything with a MTime of 17:33 and 17:34 and does 'file *'.
[13:27:11] <sbx> i think thats all of it :)
[13:27:42] <sbx> brb
[13:27:43] <-- sbx has left IRC ("Client Exiting")
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[13:33:18] * Darke notices that sbx is now rootless.
[13:34:07] * sbx was hoping the rootness wouldn't be noticed in the first place.
[13:34:25] <wjp> --> sbx (~root@ has joined #exult
[13:35:06] <sbx> I am home now. :-)
[13:35:24] <sbx> (that is, /home is remounted)
[13:35:26] * Darke was surprised that sbx was rooted in the first place. <innocentlook>
[13:35:42] * sbx doesn't think Darke was either surprised or innocent.
[13:36:46] * Darke is surprised that Colourless hasn't kicked him on the grounds of his two sad and old-as-the-hills puns.
[13:37:36] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[13:37:36] --- Topic for #exult is: exult: <fluff> An engine that plays U7 data files. <fluff> Please read the <fluffing> documentation and the FAQ! <fluff!>
[13:37:36] --- Topic for #exult set by Darke at Wed Dec 19 10:20:41 2001
[13:37:45] <sbx> exultbot: wb
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[13:37:53] <exultbot> sbx: thx
[13:38:00] <wjp> hi
[13:38:03] <sbx> hi
[13:38:14] <-- Colourless has left IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
[13:38:20] <Fingolfin> hi
[13:38:48] <Wumpus> *phew*
[13:39:09] <Wumpus> thats the next batch done... still some more to investigate further, but not now :)
[13:39:19] * Wumpus goes through and fiddles with priorities, as soon as this one has finished uploading :)
[13:39:32] <sbx> you can do that?
[13:39:50] <Wumpus> yeah, the creator can
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[13:46:28] <Wumpus> okay, that'll about do it... :)
[13:47:32] <Wumpus> d'oh, i should submit one more, then i'd own exactly half the open bugs :)
[13:47:53] * sbx has to see this.
[13:48:05] <wjp> yikes
[13:48:07] * Darke prods Wumpus into submitting one more.
[13:48:38] <Wumpus> hehe not now, i have a few more, but want to play with some stuff more first
[13:49:08] <wjp> Colourless: do party members still trigger teleporter eggs, btw?
[13:49:09] <Wumpus> of course someone's probably going to discover my oldest savegame was corrupted and they are all a result of that :| hehe that'd suck
[13:49:28] <Colourless> wjp: well, i didn't change the code
[13:49:32] * Darke is glad he doesn't know _anything_ about this bug database thing. <innocentwiggle>
[13:49:41] <wjp> that might cause the 'stair teleporter bug'
[13:51:02] * wjp starts assigning random bugs to Darke
[13:51:25] <Wumpus> hehe yeah the stair teleporter one is easily the most important of those 9.... can be a real showstopper, especially if you encounter it the first time and don't know its a bug ;-p
[13:54:31] <Wumpus> hehe i also have the 'pigs contain random food' thing in my list, but thats already know :P (one of the last things i saw last time i checked the ph0rum
[13:56:29] <Wumpus> wjp- hmm, your suggestion about companions having something to do with it may be right... i just tried that savegame a bit, and first it was screwy for a while, but then once my companions ran staright ahead, and that paticular time i could continue fine too... hmmmmm
[13:59:43] <Wumpus> *blink*
[13:59:44] <Wumpus> hey cool
[14:00:18] * Darke earperks.
[14:00:53] <Wumpus> just staring at that saved game for the stair teleporter, and noticed that when i load it, the animations don't run (eg the blue fire, and the water bubbles), whereas the colour cycling stuff does.... i leave it unfocused for a while to irc, and suddenly it all comes alive again...
[14:01:09] <Wumpus> (i could move all along)... hmm
[14:02:03] * Darke blinks. Weird.
[14:02:31] <Wumpus> what on earth *is* the SDL parachute anyway?
[14:02:45] <sbx> 495039 is because of companions hitting the teleporter
[14:03:04] <wjp> it just catches any fatal signals and exits gracefully
[14:04:11] <sbx> "tries" to exit gracefully
[14:04:17] <sbx> :-)
[14:04:26] <wjp> yeah, 'tries', indeed
[14:04:41] <wjp> it usually succeeds, though
[14:04:48] <Wumpus> so is that why i don't get core files, or is that something else?
[14:04:55] <sbx> yes
[14:05:06] <wjp> that's why you don't get cores, yes
[14:05:34] * Wumpus likes his core files (well, not all that helpful for exult, what with the optimisations, and the fact that at the moment i don't have a debug build, but in general)
[14:05:56] <sbx> Wumpus: you like locking doors behind you?
[14:06:12] <Wumpus> sbx- *shrug* :P
[14:06:24] <Wumpus> if i'm going to carry all those keys, i may as well use 'em :)
[14:06:37] <sbx> That is the LAST thing I would want to do. In fact, if I was exploring a dungeon I would have Shamino stay behind and hold the door open.
[14:06:49] <Wumpus> hehe
[14:06:53] <Wumpus> why shamino?
[14:07:24] <Wumpus> shamino isn't that bad i find... dupre's just thick, and iolo is.. well, iolo... but shamino's alright... shuts up most of the time, which is good :)
[14:08:24] <sbx> Dupre knows how to have a good time... Shamino is the quiet type so we probably wouldn't even notice he's gone.
[14:08:51] <sbx> I trust he knows how to keep a door open better than Dupre too. Iolo might fall asleep.
[14:09:30] <Wumpus> lol
[14:09:37] * Wumpus notices typo... "live hideout" hehe... oh well :P
[14:14:29] * sbx thinks when he plays through BG he will play as a female.
[14:14:43] <Wumpus> it wouldn't make much difference in BG i think
[14:14:52] <sbx> maybe, but i havnt done it yet
[14:14:55] <Wumpus> i really sohuld have played SI as a female this time... just to see what happends :)
[14:15:21] <Wumpus> but i'm not going to get to moonshade all over again just now ... i do know that Caladin tries to seduce you though :)
[14:15:30] * Darke hasn't played through BG as anything other then female. It's why he never noticed the subplot with... what's her name at Code IIRC.
[14:15:39] <Darke> s/Code/Cove/
[14:15:39] <sbx> Cove
[14:15:48] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("bbl")
[14:16:15] <sbx> the forum said someone named Frigidazzi wants you male or female?
[14:16:22] * Darke was just thinking about how he probably should _do_ some code as he was writing that. <grin>
[14:16:56] <Colourless> that is true
[14:17:19] <Colourless> frigidazzi goes both ways
[14:17:33] <Wumpus> hehe cool
[14:17:40] <Wumpus> i was having trouble seeing how it'd work otherwise
[14:17:51] <Wumpus> it'd take a significant re-work to have it otherwise...
[14:19:35] * sbx tries a couple of Wumpus' savegames.
[14:20:31] <Wumpus> hehe
[14:20:44] <sbx> i notice in Companions Para after Teleport, if you go offscreen your companions in the little room end up following you anyway
[14:21:02] <Wumpus> sbx- yeah, i know... i commented on that in the report
[14:21:09] * Darke considers the easiest way would be to invert the genders of all who are involved depending upon your gender. But that would require gender neutral naming and two sets of artwork for the appropriate people.
[14:21:16] <sbx> Wumpus: that is a "feature" :)
[14:21:40] <Wumpus> sbx- um, no, they would get `frozen' indefinitely within the same game, sometimes
[14:21:53] <Wumpus> but it seems that loading the game shakes them loose :|
[14:21:59] <sbx> Wumpus: i dont mean the frozen part
[14:22:10] <sbx> Wumpus: i mean, if they get offscreen they end up following you anyway
[14:22:12] <Colourless> actually you don't need to change the gender of all the characters, only a few
[14:22:21] <Wumpus> sbx- not always
[14:22:40] * Darke nods to Colourless, he isn't sure since he's never played SI.
[14:22:40] <sbx> Wumpus: if they are in party and following avatar
[14:23:08] <Wumpus> as i said, i've had them frozen indefinitely.... the first time i noticed it, i was about to get into a major battle, and realied there was only shamino following me... trudged back across ages and ages and found the other two lurking on a stair
[14:23:45] <Wumpus> *shrug* i'll try and get a save where the behaviour manifests itself regularly, instead of that one... but not now
[14:23:49] <sbx> Wumpus: frozen? no i do not mean in this savegame, i mean anywhere, and in BG too
[14:24:13] <Wumpus> oh well, yeah, they can get out from behind locked doors like that
[14:24:14] <Wumpus> thats a feature
[14:24:16] <sbx> the freezing is definately a bug but i wasnt referring to that
[14:24:22] <sbx> no its a "feature"
[14:24:22] <sbx> hehe
[14:24:23] <Wumpus> ah okay :-)
[14:24:35] <Wumpus> well its the way DOS SI/BG did it too
[14:24:37] <sbx> did you kill a liche?
[14:24:45] <Wumpus> its a little weird, but useufl
[14:24:55] <Wumpus> yeah :)
[14:25:00] <sbx> how?
[14:25:30] <Wumpus> i think he felt compelled to talk about things first, and i wa sright on top of him or something :)
[14:25:47] <sbx> it looks like he barely got a few feet from his throne
[14:26:03] <Wumpus> he wasn't even sitting in it at the time, just wandering around, iirc
[14:26:55] <sbx> is there a foolproof method for killing them?
[14:27:02] <Wumpus> god mode :-)
[14:27:07] <sbx> non-cheatish
[14:27:41] <Wumpus> actually, that game that all those bugs came from, i only cheated to overcome glitches... two Alt-t teleports when my companions cornered me (argh!), and one switching companions out of wait
[14:28:12] <Wumpus> i'm not sure that liches in SI are so enthusiastic with the death bolts... but in any case, there seem to be less of them :) can't remember any other than aram doll just now
[14:28:20] <sbx> "foolproof" meaning even a person foolish enough to wander into dungeons with a bard a drunk and a tree hugger could kill the liche
[14:28:34] <sbx> oh i see
[14:28:45] <sbx> i wouldnt know how many liches are in SI anyway
[14:28:55] <Wumpus> hehe, you ever play diablo 2?
[14:28:58] <sbx> no
[14:29:02] <sbx> i played diablo
[14:29:41] <sbx> but everyone cheated so i didnt play long
[14:29:58] <Wumpus> the final movie in the expansion pack has the archangle throw this glownig sword thing at a hueg crystal... ooks quite cool, spinning through the air and cracking it... i really would love to do that with a glass sword, at Batlin.... :-)
[14:30:03] <Wumpus> bah
[14:30:09] * Wumpus doesn't like multi-player anything very much
[14:30:18] <Wumpus> with Stars! being *the* notable exception :-)
[14:30:25] <sbx> sounds quite cool!
[14:31:08] * wjp commits U8 usecode "disassembler"
[14:31:16] <Wumpus> especially since you get the perfect opportunity to do just that in SI.... ;-p
[14:31:19] <wjp> (not sure if it's worthy of that name yet :-) )
[14:31:29] <sbx> Wumpus: you are correct sir, this gargoyle is not exactly sleeping
[14:31:30] * Darke earperks.
[14:31:43] <sbx> Wumpus: BUG-not-so-sleeping-gargoyle
[14:31:50] <Wumpus> hehe :-)
[14:31:50] <sbx> Wumpus: BUG-not-so-sleeping gargoyle
[14:32:04] <Wumpus> i think _i_, on the other hand, should sleep
[14:32:13] <sbx> :-(
[14:32:17] <Wumpus> i'm supposed to be getting a lot of stuff done in the city and uni... uhh... today :|
[14:32:19] <Wumpus> (1:30am :P)
[14:32:23] <Darke> <grin> Good night then Wumpus.
[14:32:34] <sbx> :*-(
[14:32:39] <Wumpus> 'night all
[14:32:42] <Colourless> cya
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[14:32:56] <sbx> >|-O
[14:33:05] <sbx> <fluff>
[14:33:38] <Darke> sbx: You're looking for 'droopear' or 'sadfluff'.
[14:33:53] <sbx> no i was saying <fluff>
[14:33:59] * Darke giggle.
[14:35:40] * Darke blinks. Global flags are 3bytes long?!?
[14:36:11] <wjp> yes...
[14:36:27] <wjp> I don't get why, though
[14:36:30] * Darke was about to say that makes no sense, but it makes perfect sense.
[14:36:39] <Colourless> ehm
[14:36:58] * Colourless thinks it does make no sense
[14:37:22] <wjp> the first object in the flex has all the flag names, and the 3 bytes code there match perfectly with the params to the 0x4E and 0x4F opcodes
[14:38:02] * Colourless thinks he is missing something somewhere
[14:38:31] <Colourless> obviously you are talking about u8
[14:38:50] <wjp> yes :-)
[14:39:18] <Colourless> so what have you managed to figure out so far
[14:39:26] <Darke> It's a 'simple' hash function. You have a fixed array (255 in length) of 'vectors'. You take one byte as the hash key, and just drop the other key values underneath it. So instead of having a single fixed list (slow to iterate over), or reserving a large chunk of memory, you have the 'best' of both worlds. If that makes sense.
[14:39:31] <Colourless> how many opcodes?
[14:39:44] <Colourless> :-)
[14:40:12] <Darke> 'Most' of the opcodes, if what I'm reading is correct.
[14:40:39] * Colourless thinks, what are you reading
[14:40:53] <wjp> disasm.cc, probably
[14:40:53] <Darke> pentagram/tools/disasm.cc
[14:41:10] <wjp> ARGH
[14:41:20] <wjp> I sure seem to screw up header comments a lot
[14:41:32] * Darke blinks.
[14:57:44] <Colourless> you seem to be doing quite well
[15:07:37] * Darke ponders for a few moments on how to add a '#include' type declaration to the conf/ files... he doesn't think it'd be possible.
[15:08:44] <sbx> <insert>filename</> ?
[15:08:57] <sbx> or <!include> or something
[15:10:46] <Darke> sbx: Yes. But that would make 'insert' a reserved word. I'm not sure if '!'s are allowed in it or not. I do think however it'd be a bit of a rewrite. Which is not something I really want to do with it until after 1.0. But it would be a very useful feature for later, when we're allowing people to make their own games.
[15:11:24] <sbx> No reserved words, just not allow anything to start with exclamation point.
[15:11:52] * Darke nods.
[15:13:53] <Darke> Adding a <!conf-version>1.0</> tag would be also useful. So if we upgrade the 'features' of the conf/ files later we could easily tell which files were designed for what versions. So changing the file format without breaking things wouldn't be completely impossible.
[15:14:55] <sbx> or you could make the file format completely dependant on an external doctype specification
[15:15:05] <sbx> but i dont think thats necessary :-)
[15:15:30] * Darke was considering that... but he thought it was going a bit overboard. <grin>
[15:15:34] <sbx> cmanip is not a quick hack anymore?
[15:16:08] <Darke> Still a 'quick hack' also a half finished hack. <grin>
[15:16:53] * matto reads the topic and thinks Darke is having a little too much fun
[15:17:40] * Darke thinks there's no such thing as 'too much fun'. But that topic certainly isn't remotely close to 'too much fun'. <innocentwiggle>
[15:18:41] * sbx wants to see Darke's idea of being remotely close to 'too much fun'.
[15:20:58] * Darke points out that sbx was... cringing at his 'soundtrack', so more then likely sbx really, _really_ doesn't want to know what he defines as 'too much fun'. <complete-innocentwiggle>
[15:21:26] * sbx withdraws his request.
[15:21:40] * Darke rofls.
[15:22:22] <sbx> I wasn't cringing at your 'soundtrack' as much as I was bemused by the fact that you have a 'soundtrack'.
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[15:23:55] <sbx> hi
[15:23:57] <Darke> sbx: <grin> Fair enough. At the start it makes it easier to 'define' or 'step into' my character's personalities when I'm roleplaying them. If I have a set of music that reminds me of them.
[15:24:01] <Darke> Hi Nadir.
[15:24:21] <Nadir> hi
[15:24:26] <Colourless> hi
[15:24:41] <wjp> hi
[15:26:05] <sbx> Nadir: what is the status of the merging of Amiga exult to CVS?
[15:26:09] <Nadir> none
[15:26:18] <sbx> :(
[15:28:01] <Darke> Nadir: No word from him? Or just nothing happened yet?
[15:28:58] <Nadir> Darke: an idea for ucxt - why not create a mapping of NPC's usecode functions. Just grab the function number from npc.dat, the NPC's name and construct an identifier
[15:29:07] <Nadir> re: Amiga - no word from him
[15:29:26] <Nadir> It would make things much more readable
[15:29:44] * sbx thinks Darke is going to make all kinds of mappings like that soon.
[15:30:27] <Darke> (ucxt) <nod> I'm going to drag all names of npcs and items out of the files and just make one big 'function name' file, at some point in the future.
[15:30:38] <Nadir> good stuff
[15:31:05] <Nadir> can't it be dynamic ? Build the list at runtime
[15:31:38] <Darke> This is one of the reasons that I'm fiddling around with conf/, trying to get it to do what I want so I we can have One True File Format(tm) rather then a couple. <grin>
[15:32:37] <Colourless> well, that would require NPC.dat to exist, which it doesn't by default
[15:32:37] <Colourless> it could just be read from initgame.dat though
[15:32:43] <Darke> (dynamic) Not really. It's going to include names for functions that don't have a name. As well, of which there are apparently plenty. Plus I only need to integrate it with one file, rather then IIRC to .dat files (one for npcs and one for items).
[15:36:58] <Colourless> restarting. bbl
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[15:37:53] <Nadir> ok, I have to go now, bye
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[15:46:15] <sbx> wb
[15:46:21] <Colourless> thx
[15:48:01] * Darke ReHi's.
[15:53:45] <sbx> one of the zipfiles i got from the data dump is corrupted :-(
[15:54:58] * Darke considers he also needs to add the concept of a 'blob' or 'data block' or 'comment' to conf/. Just something that gets read and written back to disk completely unmodified.
[15:55:22] <sbx> ?
[15:55:36] <sbx> <!-- ? -->
[15:56:35] <Darke> Something like that. Think of the large comment chunks in opcodes.txt. If conf/ parses, as I think it parses, all the 'formatting' of the block would be lost, if it was written back to disk, so you couldn't use a program to modify it.
[15:58:03] <sbx> Maybe Exult just shouldn't mangle with the config file.
[15:58:25] <sbx> only edit and remove keys at the proper location leave the rest of the file alone
[15:58:38] <sbx> Exult and other conf/ programs
[15:59:44] <Darke> It'll probably need to if we're going to be using exult-studio and such. The problem with that, is the conf/ structure isn't written like that. When it outputs, it just effectivally dumps the string representation of the in memory tables to disk.
[16:00:32] <sbx> Yeah that is the problem, which I guess is easily avoidable if <!-- blobs --> are just written the exact same way they were read like you said.
[16:01:26] <sbx> Will attributes ever be useful to you? <config version=
[16:01:31] <sbx> "blah">
[16:01:33] <sbx> etc
[16:01:44] * Darke is tempted to rewrite conf/ almost completely, to use a C++ map<> to store things in, using the reverse of the string as the key. It'd solve problems with 'duplicate' keys upon loading, but it might cause other unintended problems.
[16:02:17] * sbx shrugs.
[16:02:32] <Darke> (attribs) They might be useful, I was considering using them to specify that the 'data' should be read in a binary block, rather then as a 'string'.
[16:03:43] <sbx> README "(and honestly, I'm not at all sure what we would do with them if we supported them anyway)"
[16:07:25] * Darke wonders if hacking on this for a couple of days would produce anything of interest... if he could rewrite and test it 'stable' within the next two days it would probably be worth the effort.
[16:09:40] <sbx> if its stable yeah
[16:09:50] <Darke> <grin> That's the 'hard' part.
[16:25:31] <sbx> Darke: What is SuSE like?
[16:31:40] <Darke> Quite good. What in specific are you asking about? <grin>
[16:40:25] * wjp has to go
[16:40:29] <wjp> bye
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[16:42:31] <sbx> Darke: Is it Mandrake-ish? A long time ago it was more like Slackware I think.
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[16:54:33] <Darke> sbx: Mandrake-ish? Not sure, I haven't used Mandrake in a while.
[16:56:16] <sbx> Easy to use without learning, GUI almost everywhere, many custom configuration tools, RPM based.
[16:56:32] <Darke> <nod> <nod> <nod> <nod>
[16:56:33] <sbx> GUI Install even
[16:56:59] <Darke> <nod> There is also a text based one if you so choose. And I did choose after I'd done one gui install. <grin> But I'm weird that way.
[16:57:06] <sbx> was the Installation point-n-click?
[16:57:07] <sbx> oh
[16:57:15] <sbx> does it let you pick what packages to install?
[16:57:35] <sbx> or make you choose from different types of installations
[16:58:02] <Darke> (individual packages) The text one does, the gui one I think so, but I can't remember. (installation types) Yes you can choose that as well.
[16:58:36] <sbx> Oh I see, I guess it is nothing like Slackware anymore.
[16:58:49] <sbx> Do you know if it uses SysV or BSD init scripts?
[16:59:07] * sbx should probably just search for information about it if he wants to know so much. :-)
[16:59:38] <Darke> Umm... SysV I think.
[16:59:50] * Darke points you to www.suse.com
[17:00:31] <sbx> thanks
[17:00:41] <sbx> Slack uses BSD with pluggable SysV scripts
[17:01:04] * Darke is not sure if that'll help, but it's at least somewhere to start. <grin>
[17:01:16] <sbx> Is it a German distro?
[17:01:33] <Darke> Yes.
[17:02:31] * Darke seems to remember they recently 'closed' their .us operations, they used to have a sister company or whatever it's called over there as well.
[17:02:42] <sbx> I thought you were Australian.
[17:02:53] * Darke nods, indeed I am.
[17:02:54] <sbx> You know German?
[17:03:22] <sbx> (speak it)
[17:03:29] <Darke> Only a little. <grin>
[17:03:46] <sbx> hehe... why did you choose a German distribution?
[17:05:05] <Darke> I'd tried DeadRat and Mandrake, and didn't really like either (DeadRat for one particular reason) and someone on the exult ML mentioned that the latest version of SuSE was rather nifty, so I grabbed myself a copy and liked it.
[17:05:56] * Darke has a faint memory it was DrCode, about a year or two ago. But he's most likely wrong.
[17:06:37] <sbx> Oooh I get it. What did you not like about "DeadRat"/?
[17:06:54] <Darke> gcc 2.96
[17:07:27] <sbx> I read that they fixed it... what was wrong with it in the programs you made?
[17:08:26] <Darke> Mainly because I somehow managed to trip over one of it's 'instabilities' with an assignment on a uni machine. I was... unimpressed.
[17:09:51] <sbx> Have you tried installing MPlayer?
[17:10:13] <Darke> It's mainly still annoyance at the philosophical disagreement that 2.96 did 'better' C++, so we'll include it, despite the fact it has a number of problems, that I was, and still am unimpressed with.
[17:10:43] <Darke> (MPlayer) Installed it, was using it not more then 20 minutes ago, and have used it for ages. Wonderful program. <grin>
[17:10:53] <sbx> It had a special warning about how it wouldnt work with gcc 2.96 and it refused to configure. If you passed it the option to configure anyway it would at one point make you type "gcc 2.96 is broken" to continue.
[17:11:10] <sbx> Yes it works well even on my 200MHz machine.
[17:11:18] * Darke considers the docs to be really shabby though. He never bothered getting the gui to work, but then again he'd mostly use the command line anyway.
[17:11:18] <sbx> MMX if you have nasm
[17:11:57] <Colourless> i hear the problems aren't so much with mplayer, but with the people behind it :-)
[17:12:06] <sbx> the version i have is before the gui, i havnt upgraded because the idea of a skinnable gui like xmms or xine doesnt interest me and sounds like it would be slow(but it might be ok now)
[17:12:12] <Darke> That's rather impressive getting it to work on a 200Mhz machine.
[17:12:24] <Darke> The gui is completely seperate.
[17:12:37] <Darke> Colourless: <grin> Yes, I seem to remember tripping over an article about that.
[17:12:53] <sbx> i pasted a link to it yesterday
[17:13:20] <sbx> anyway it plays better on my box than any other video player i have used for any platform ever
[17:13:32] <Darke> Fair enough, that could be the one I remember.
[17:13:36] <sbx> DivX too
[17:13:59] <Darke> It's a bit slow on my box for DVDs for some reason. Xine is faster. I don't know exactly why though.
[17:14:15] <sbx> I havnt tried DVD since i dont have a DVD-ROM :-)
[17:14:33] <sbx> it might be the decryption method Xine uses?
[17:14:42] <sbx> nevermind i dont know
[17:14:47] <Darke> It's rather choppy.
[17:14:54] <sbx> mplayer is still pre-release so i think it will get better
[17:15:07] * Darke nods and agrees.
[17:16:47] <sbx> Point was, the developers of that *really* hate gcc 2.96
[17:17:45] <sbx> What did you think of Mandrake? You didn't come up with a gross name for it. :-)
[17:17:54] * Darke can understand that feeling. He does think that they are going overboard though.
[17:18:26] <Darke> <grin> They're not my names, I don't consider myself sufficiently creative to create them.
[17:18:58] <Darke> Mandrake IMHO is better then RedHat, but 'worse' then SuSE, in my situation.
[17:19:16] * Darke however, must go. The bed is calling. "Night all."
[17:19:20] <sbx> night
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[17:47:40] <Colourless> restarting
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[18:58:01] <Fingolfin> lo
[18:58:06] <Colourless> hi
[18:58:38] <sbx> hi
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[19:32:04] <sbx> hehe
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[23:48:59] <-- sbx has left IRC ("Push push push, add jmp mul pop, push call sub mod, in smth say...")