#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 19 Jan 2004 (GMT)

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[10:07:01] <Colourless> hi
[10:08:18] <wjp> hi
[10:08:58] <wjp> did you catch my comments on that serpent bond/face stats bug last night?
[10:09:24] <Colourless> yeah i'll look at it
[10:09:37] <Colourless> the way all that stuff works is.... icky :-)
[10:09:39] <wjp> it also affects the paperdoll gump, btw
[10:10:29] <Colourless> i have to be careful though since i don't want to break anything else in the process
[10:11:00] <wjp> how would you feel about adding a very ugly hack to work around the Serpent Staff bug? I was thinking along of the lines of "if (GAME_SI && egg_position = (something)) { dont_hatch_egg }" :-)
[10:11:10] <wjp> s/of //
[10:11:32] <Colourless> doesn't actually bother me
[10:12:13] <wjp> do we have any documenting comments on the way avatar shapes and polymorphing and stuff work?
[10:25:25] <Colourless> um, no, i don't thing so
[10:25:37] <Colourless> s/thing/think/
[10:53:14] <Colourless> ok, i had to add another function to fix the problem since the behaviour of get_shape_real() is what usecode expects
[10:53:38] <Colourless> and changing that will cause no end of other si problems :-)
[11:05:21] <Colourless> now, if cvs was working i would commit
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[11:06:08] <Darke> Of course it's not going to work, we're almost ready to release 1.2, it's inevitable. *grin*
[11:06:20] <wjp> it was supposed to be a downtime of 10 hours
[11:06:25] <wjp> it's at 13 now
[11:07:16] * Colourless doesn't want to think about how long the serpent bond bug was outstanding
[11:10:45] * Colourless has finally closed the bug
[11:10:56] <wjp> oh, only 18 months or so :-)
[11:11:18] * Colourless now only has 3 tasks left in his list on sourceforge...3 pentagram bugs
[11:11:42] <wjp> bark gumps, container gumps, gravity process
[11:11:55] <wjp> I only have two
[11:12:03] <wjp> but I think I'll unassign one of them
[11:12:25] <wjp> or both, actually
[12:43:27] <wjp> ugh... it seems we still have some palette issues too
[12:43:49] <wjp> (the in-game palette is set before the red plasma screen disappears)
[12:44:08] <wjp> I must've fixed that at least four times
[12:44:25] <Colourless> :-)
[12:45:15] <Colourless> here's a trick. If the palette gets set while the plasma is being displayed, clear the screen :-)
[12:45:26] <wjp> hehe :-)
[12:45:31] <wjp> that's cheating :-)
[12:45:38] <Colourless> yeah, well, it works :-)
[12:45:50] <Colourless> we're making a game engine here :-)
[12:45:54] <Colourless> cheating is allowed :-)
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[13:32:33] <wjp> hm, it seems the call that causes the palette quirk is actually pal->fade_out
[13:33:05] <wjp> would explain why I didn't see it at home but I do see it here
[13:33:12] <wjp> (I have palette fades disabled at home)
[13:47:59] <wjp> hm, palettes.flx index 0 is the main palette, right?
[13:50:03] <Colourless> yeah i think so
[13:50:28] <wjp> that palette is loaded almost immediately after the plasma starts
[13:50:36] <wjp> but it isn't applied at that point, so you don't see it
[13:50:45] <wjp> ...but the fade-out does use that palette
[13:51:20] <Colourless> i swear i implemented some functions for the SI intro that can be used to fade out using the current palette
[13:51:42] <wjp> 'current' as in the one in imagewin?
[13:51:53] <wjp> oh... I see the problem
[13:52:09] * wjp points at Shape_manager::load
[13:52:20] <wjp> (the top 5 lines or so)
[13:54:23] <Colourless> interesting
[13:57:09] <wjp> we could either move that code somewhere else, or restore the palette afterwards, I guess
[13:57:23] * wjp wonders if it's always using the load palette at that point
[13:58:04] <Colourless> it seems really strange to grab the game's palette then do a load on it
[13:58:43] <wjp> hm, yes, you could just use a custom palette object there of course
[13:59:02] <Colourless> BUT that wont actually work with the way palette is constructed\
[13:59:18] <wjp> it won't?
[13:59:36] <Colourless> actually palette load will work
[13:59:39] <wjp> as long as you don't "apply" the palette things should be fine
[13:59:46] <wjp> (or "update", or "fade*", or...)
[13:59:49] <Colourless> yeah noticed that myself
[13:59:54] <wjp> speaking of update/apply: why does update exist?
[14:00:07] <wjp> Palette::update() is exactly the same as Palette::apply(false)
[14:00:41] <Colourless> hell if i know
[14:01:07] <Colourless> someone might have augmented Palette::apply() after Palette::update() was implemented
[14:01:39] <wjp> possibly
[14:01:56] <wjp> alright, another cosmetic bug squashed
[14:05:16] <Colourless> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/exult/exult/palette.cc?r1=1.26&r2=1.27
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[14:05:56] <Colourless> wjp: you did it :-)
[14:06:02] <Colourless> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/exult/exult/palette.cc?rev=1.27&view=markup
[14:06:07] <wjp> I know I made that change to apply
[14:06:31] <wjp> ah, and update() was already there at the time? :-)
[14:06:38] <Colourless> yes it was :-)
[14:07:20] <wjp> update seems to be used in exactly one spot
[14:07:25] <wjp> no, two
[14:07:29] <Colourless> http://cvs.sourceforge.net/viewcvs.py/exult/exult/palette.cc?r1=1.18&r2=1.19 is when i implemented update
[14:07:41] <wjp> hi Fingolfin
[14:09:52] <Colourless> hi Fingolfin
[14:10:36] <Fingolfin> hiya folks
[14:11:53] <Colourless> it's pseudo crunch time leading up to the 1.2 release
[14:12:27] <Colourless> i mean in 2 days i did more on exult than i did in 2 months :-)
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[14:20:50] <wjp> yeah... lots of bugfixes and other minor improvements over the last couple of days :-)
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[14:28:02] <Colourless> whoa, only a 'minor' netsplit
[14:28:21] <Fingolfin> hua hua hua
[14:28:55] <wjp> rehubbing
[14:29:11] <Colourless> yes i noticed
[15:16:41] <wjp> "The developer CVS downtime has been extended. The next update regarding this service will occur at 9AM."
[15:16:59] <Colourless> 9am what time?
[15:17:05] <wjp> good question
[15:17:17] <wjp> I think 9am is in about 2 hours
[15:17:39] <Colourless> that is kind of a strange time zone then
[15:17:45] <wjp> PST, I think
[15:18:20] <Colourless> in 2 hours it will be about 4 am for me. Which would mean they are about 19 hours behind me, which is a really long time
[15:18:35] <wjp> west coast US is 9 hours behind me
[15:19:19] <Colourless> i guess they are 'only' on the other side of the pacific ocean from me :-)
[15:22:29] * Darke creates a time-zone where 9am is *after* 10am. He'll call it NST (Non Standard Time). Schoolkits will love it!
[15:25:35] <wjp> schoolkids might like it too
[15:26:11] <Colourless> as far as I know, he meant Schoolkits :-)
[15:27:01] <Darke> Immature child processes?
[15:27:33] <Colourless> sounds like me
[15:28:07] * Darke blames coding perl at too-early-in-the-morning-o-clock for this set of surreality.
[15:28:13] * Darke steals Colourless' PID.
[15:28:48] <Colourless> well as long an no one else wants to interact with me, i shouldn't have a problem
[15:29:01] <Darke> Hmm...
[15:29:08] <Colourless> and you've just in the process made me immortal. if someone wants to terminate me, they will terminate you instead
[15:29:23] * Darke replaces Colourless' PID, and assigns his parent's ID to be his as well.
[15:29:23] * wjp assigns a bug to Colourless and notices it was assigned to Darke
[15:29:48] <Darke> Oi! I've already got a bug that was assigned to Colourless. I'll have no more, thanks! *grin*
[15:30:15] * Darke wonders if it's That Time Of Year, when he has to reassign it back, yet.
[15:30:31] <Colourless> i'm still waiting for you to finish writing the Pentagram engine
[15:30:43] <wjp> yes, how's that progressing?
[15:33:20] <Darke> It seems to be writing itself too slowly. I think it needs a bit of encouragement that's all. *nodnod*
[15:36:00] * Colourless makes an appropriate change to the pentagram Bug Tracker
[15:37:13] <wjp> how interesting
[15:37:27] <wjp> you realize you just sent me a truckload of email, right? :-)
[15:37:38] <Colourless> yes i imagine i did :-)
[15:38:23] <Colourless> i sent myself a few too
[15:38:34] <wjp> oh, I'm being russian-bounce-spammed again too. Yay
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[16:14:10] <sbx> bye
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[16:47:21] <Colourless> so, how would the GPL apply to a program written directly by someone in machine code using a hex editor?
[16:48:24] <wjp> and people modify it also using a hex editor?
[16:48:42] <Colourless> well, i guess they would :-)
[16:49:19] <Colourless> but i don't think such a thing would actually happen
[16:49:31] <Colourless> and you wouldn't choose to release under gpl :-)
[16:49:35] <wjp> I'm guessing the source-availability conditions would be pretty much trivial
[16:49:58] <wjp> or void, or whatever the term is
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[17:29:30] <Dominus> hi all
[17:29:39] <Colourless> hi
[17:29:46] <Dominus> wanna see a stupid ebay-auction? http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2374470520&category=2385
[17:30:00] <Dominus> it 's in german and the guy is selling his air guitar.
[17:30:05] <Dominus> :-)
[17:30:47] <Dominus> my gf and me we just joked around and somehow had the idea to sell air guitars on ebay. Then we looked and someone else apparently had that idea already
[17:31:58] <wjp> hi
[17:33:02] <wjp> whee! cvs is back :-)
[17:33:31] <Dominus> wow
[17:36:47] <wjp> hehe, mail error: SMTP protocol diagnostic: 550 5.0.0 SPAM Rejected.Your country is in violation of human rights.
[17:37:15] <Dominus> he
[17:41:41] <Dominus> strange, i cannot get cvs of dosbox
[17:48:02] <wjp> yeah, stale lock
[17:49:34] * wjp pokes Colourless: you can commit your serpent bond fix now :-)
[18:00:17] <wjp> bbl, dinner
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[19:12:57] <wjp> well, that worm gem flag was easy to track down, luckily
[19:13:28] <wjp> Colourless: are you familiar with 'death' in exult?
[19:13:41] <wjp> specifically, I was wondering how hard a 'resurrect' cheat would be
[19:13:50] <wjp> (for any NPC, not just party members)
[19:14:58] <Dominus> sorry wjp for making you more work :-)
[19:15:25] <wjp> don't worry about it :-)
[19:16:13] * wjp takes a peek at Actor::die
[19:18:14] <Dominus> such a cheat could be useful (as far as cheats are useful anyway)
[19:20:03] <wjp> doesn't look like it'll be that hard
[19:20:51] <Dominus> I just wonder if that is really desired (with the many scripted deaths in SI)
[19:21:07] <wjp> well, it _is_ a cheat :-)
[19:21:21] <Colourless> on death a body is created (with a specific quality), the contents of the npc is transfered to the body, the npc is removed from the world
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[21:27:15] <QBRADQ> Hello
[21:27:29] <wjp> hi
[21:27:35] <Colourless> hi
[21:28:45] <QBRADQ> I happened into your project on the net, thought I would drop by
[21:29:05] <QBRADQ> I am so gald you guys are going for this. I have never been able to play U7 :P
[21:33:36] <QBRADQ> Well, thanks, and bye bye
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[21:56:14] <WishStone> Ev'nin lovies
[21:58:09] <wjp> hi WishStone
[21:58:24] * WishStone bows to the grand designers
[22:00:12] <wjp> 'grand designers'? did you ever see exult's internals? :-)
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[22:01:10] <WishStone> Grander then I could ever be :P
[22:01:26] <WishStone> I'm happy I passed "Pascal" class in high school and know HTML ;]
[22:05:12] <wjp> what do/did you study at the uni, btw?
[22:05:22] <WishStone> Teaching :]
[22:05:41] <wjp> teaching anything in particular?
[22:05:48] <WishStone> I'm aiming to teach kids between 10 and 16 mostly in home economics.
[22:06:01] <WishStone> I didn`t really care about the subjects... I just wanted to teach ;]
[22:06:06] <wjp> :-)
[22:07:58] <WishStone> *pets one of her boys and sighs* Might have to put them down soon :\
[22:08:28] <WishStone> their cancer is munching them up
[22:09:54] <wjp> pets?
[22:10:01] <WishStone> Rats, aye ...
[22:11:23] <wjp> sorry to hear that :/
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[22:12:18] <WishStone_Dragon> It's the useual cause of death for them...
[22:12:28] <WishStone_Dragon> They useually live no longer then 2 years due to it.
[22:12:33] <wjp> hm, really? didn't know that
[22:12:46] <WishStone_Dragon> Well, for these rats, yes. The pet ones.
[22:13:11] * WishStone_Dragon digs out piccies
[22:13:31] <WishStone_Dragon> http://www.astroxys.de/Lt.Rox/ratz/Zoddy.jpg http://www.astroxys.de/Lt.Rox/ratz/Fang.jpg
[22:14:04] <wjp> they're surprisingly cute for rats :-)
[22:14:22] <WishStone_Dragon> The white one, Fang, is pinkish now, he loses so much fur. And Zodiac has a huge lump on the very base of his tail, a huge tumor :\
[22:14:24] * WishStone_Dragon chuckles
[22:14:33] <WishStone_Dragon> THESE stinkers aren't cute, they are males...
[22:14:39] <WishStone_Dragon> Now FEMALES, these are cute ;]
[22:14:45] <wjp> (not that I've ever seen rats-as-pets before... mostly encountered the 'giant' variety in various RPGs :-) )
[22:15:25] <WishStone_Dragon> Whereas my boys are 2 hands and a bit, girlies useually are one hand ;] *chuckles at thinking seeing these in an RPG* I doubt the GM would mention them much....
[22:15:45] <WishStone_Dragon> "You see a black and a white rat snoozing in a pile of discarded cloth... further down the hall..." ;]
[22:16:00] <wjp> hm, there are these "pipes of the sewers" that summon rats
[22:16:28] <WishStone_Dragon> these tiny ones? Do they at least carry desease or something? :P
[22:16:54] <wjp> hm, no, no disease, I'm afraid
[22:17:04] <wjp> their strength is in numbers :-)
[22:17:10] <WishStone_Dragon> Boring then... unless you're a mage and want a familiar I guess ;]
[22:17:17] <WishStone_Dragon> Ah, oki. THAT much is true...
[22:17:38] <WishStone_Dragon> The females can get pragnant already with 4 weeks, while they still need their mommie...
[22:17:43] <WishStone_Dragon> Like stupid human females :P
[22:17:51] <wjp> hm, 3d6x10 rats, it seems
[22:18:06] <WishStone_Dragon> Whoa, nice pack :P
[22:19:08] <wjp> 4 weeks? on a lifespan of 2 years?
[22:19:16] <WishStone_Dragon> *nods*
[22:19:25] * wjp does some quick arithmetic
[22:19:36] <WishStone_Dragon> Not sure how long they carry, but one week after birth they can concive again.
[22:19:43] <wjp> that would be roughly when you're 3 years old for a human female :-)
[22:20:05] <WishStone_Dragon> *chuckles* Well, kids these days get pragnant with 13, wait a few years and... :P
[22:20:38] * wjp wonders if that means that rats have already evolved further than humans :-)
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[22:20:45] <WishStone_Dragon> Litters are anything between 4 and 16, though the ones around 8 welps are the ones with fewest deaths.
[22:21:01] * wjp waves bye-bye to second WishStone
[22:21:21] <WishStone_Dragon> *bows*
[22:21:24] <WishStone_Dragon> Nice evening to you.
[22:21:32] * WishStone_Dragon ruthlessly reclaims her
[22:21:36] --- WishStone_Dragon is now known as WishStone
[22:21:56] <WishStone> That white plastic basket in the background of Zoddy's picture got cut open after one rather nasty incident with Fang....
[22:22:24] <WishStone> A friend had shown me how much they are into joghurt, dip your finger in and let them lick it off...
[22:22:31] <WishStone> Fang didn't understand how it worked.
[22:22:50] <WishStone> He thought more along the lines of "COOL! Finger in joghurt dressing!! *CRUNCH!!!*
[22:23:04] <wjp> sounds painful
[22:23:31] <WishStone> *hehe* Was, specially because he packed tighter when I tried to pull away... and he was trying to drag my finger into the basket :P
[22:24:29] <WishStone> Far worse was how it LOOKED! White rat, joghurt... and slowly MY BLOOD dribbling out on the sides of the white maw, over the white joghurt! *laughs*
[22:24:34] <WishStone> Scarrrrieeeee!!
[22:24:50] <wjp> heh :-)
[22:25:50] <WishStone> Thank god he didn't manage to break through my finegrnail, THAT would have hurt plenty.
[22:26:14] <WishStone> They are very much like old men now... mostly sleeping. :]
[22:27:27] <WishStone> Now I wonder: Do I want rat girlies when they have to go... or will I get myself that chipmunk I wanted for years?
[22:28:03] <WishStone> I don't want to be without pets for too long, an empty cage would look so .... ... empty.
[22:42:44] * wjp is trying to see if a particular bug occurs in the original U7SI too...
[22:43:07] <wjp> ...dying an unsettling number of times :-)
[22:43:14] <wjp> (damn those trolls and that heat in Furnace :-) )
[22:44:08] <WishStone> No kidding....
[22:44:35] <WishStone> And since in the original I never even managed to get myself to Moongl... shade without cheating, I never found out one could SURVIVE there :P
[22:45:14] <wjp> surviving there is quite far in the game, though
[22:46:29] <WishStone> eer, pardon?
[22:48:01] <WishStone> Meaning you could go far in? Yes, could do that, but then again... *laughs* I never managed the trip home ;D
[22:48:39] <wjp> I meant it isn't easy to survive in there until quite late in the game
[22:48:48] <WishStone> Oh, oki, yes ;]
[22:49:03] <wjp> yay, bug happens in the original too
[22:49:09] <WishStone> *chuckles* Which?
[22:49:19] <WishStone> (And which bug ISN'T there in the original? :P)
[22:49:35] <wjp> sometimes if you pick up the Serpent Staff it acted as if you hadn't picked it up yet
[22:49:55] <wjp> turns out that that happens if you move it around on the floor before actually picking it up
[22:49:59] <WishStone> Tell me about it *mutters* had to reload several times to get it "the propper way"
[22:50:42] <WishStone> I guess this isn't a matter of changing it so the program gives the "sacrefice" dialouge if you only have the staff with you?
[22:50:59] <wjp> that'll involve rather invasive hacking
[22:51:09] <WishStone> Okay, out of the question then ;]
[22:51:43] <wjp> I'm planning to just workaround the bug by fixing the 'pick-up-recognition' bit
[22:52:37] <WishStone> Was U8 just as buggie? *wouldn't know because she lost intrest in U8 useually 2-4 hours into the game due to death*
[22:52:52] <wjp> you walked too close to the water? :-)
[22:53:02] <WishStone> I don't know what I DIDN'T do.
[22:53:11] * WishStone dislikes games with permanent death
[22:53:11] <wjp> (or just barely missed that stepping stone? :-) )
[22:53:26] <WishStone> Ultima Bros *shudders*
[22:54:10] <WishStone> attacked the wrong monsters, didn't manage to outrun another, jumped in the wrong place to the wrong area, fell for a trap, died here there and at the other place......
[22:54:42] <WishStone> Useually as soon as I left that first town, every 5-15 minutes I had to load a safegame :\
[22:54:46] <wjp> did I ever mention I'm also involved in an Ultima 8 rewrite project? :-)
[22:55:06] <WishStone> You and Colourfull ;] did, but I'm not really intrested :P
[22:55:16] <wjp> somehow I got that impression, yes :-)
[22:56:21] <wjp> "if we're in SI, and this egg is at (1287,2568,0) then don't hatch the egg"... fun fun fun :-)
[22:56:53] <WishStone> eer
[22:56:59] <WishStone> I never quite got that egg buisness :P
[22:57:09] <wjp> eggs are basically triggers
[22:57:18] <WishStone> Nor the lightnings and so on, I turned them on, sure I could explain them to myself....
[22:57:27] <WishStone> But then, I'm just a WishStone Dragon ;]
[22:57:55] <WishStone> More often then not I would pass an egg and nothing happenes?
[22:58:28] <wjp> some eggs have a (<100%) chance of triggering
[22:58:39] <wjp> others do something you won't immediately notice
[22:58:44] <WishStone> uhm.... so...why are they there? :P
[22:59:07] <WishStone> (The smaller then 100%)
[22:59:11] <wjp> random effects
[22:59:17] <wjp> like teleport storms striking in SI
[22:59:18] <WishStone> Oh, mkay.
[23:01:08] <WishStone> I once had it in SI that for whatever reason the lighting effect was permanent... my screen constandly flickered brightness... and after a few minutes I started to feel seriously sick :P
[23:01:16] <WishStone> Saved, loaded, problem was gone.
[23:01:25] <wjp> original or exult?
[23:01:36] <WishStone> Exule. Sadly I never figgured out why it happened :\
[23:01:44] <wjp> hm, how long ago?
[23:01:53] <WishStone> What's my build.. *checks*
[23:02:15] <WishStone> I run 1.00
[23:02:37] <wjp> rather a lot changed since then, so let's hope it's already been fixed :-)
[23:03:17] <WishStone> It only happened once and I never found out why.
[23:03:30] <WishStone> AND it could be broken by reloading the game or restarting it.
[23:03:36] <WishStone> So no biggie
[23:03:38] <wjp> I do recall some lightning-related bugs
[23:03:59] <wjp> something when a lightning effect happened when the previous one wasn't over yet
[23:04:16] <WishStone> Hm, sounds pretty rare or random then.
[23:08:01] * wjp nods
[23:13:00] * WishStone listens to the start theme of Exult, totally mezmorized
[23:13:08] <WishStone> eer.. *closes it*
[23:13:31] <WishStone> You should put sublimal msgs in there, would work like a charm ;]
[23:13:55] <wjp> you like the one that makes you think there are no subliminal messages in there? ;-)
[23:14:13] <wjp> s/you/you mean/
[23:14:38] <WishStone> *LOL*
[23:23:21] <wjp> I should be going; have to get up early again tomorrow
[23:23:26] <wjp> g'night
[23:30:23] <WishStone> Night :]
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