#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 19 Jun 2003 (GMT)

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[03:14:02] <ZKS> Hello everybody! ^^
[03:15:41] <ZKS> Ooops, it seems that 12Dominus isnīt here now... :P
[03:15:52] <ZKS> Perhaps later...
[03:17:40] <ZKS> !seen Dominus
[03:19:19] <ZKS> ?seen Dominus
[03:19:19] <exultbot> dominus left IRC around Sun Jun 15 21:34:52 2003 (GMT) ("enough for now")
[03:19:50] <ZKS> Perhaps tomorrow... XD
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[03:32:28] <servus> Darn colours! Curse you!
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[12:21:03] <Colourless> hi
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[17:37:14] <wjp> hi
[17:37:22] <Colourless> hi
[17:38:43] <wjp> Fingolfin: we can't use _X? :-)
[17:39:31] <Fingolfin> yo
[17:39:34] <Fingolfin> no
[17:40:27] <wjp> are things compiling on OSX yet?
[17:40:56] <Fingolfin> the internal error is still there (I have to manually inline that .inl file). the rest is in the process of compiling right now
[17:41:01] <Fingolfin> WWDC starts monday
[17:41:04] <Fingolfin> and I hope we get new dev tools...
[17:41:10] <Fingolfin> that is, it's pretty likely
[17:41:32] <wjp> they fixed both this bug and the bug that's been plaguing exult, right?
[17:42:02] <Fingolfin> they claim to, yes
[17:43:34] <wjp> looking forward to next week, then :-)
[17:44:49] <Colourless> why can't they release dev tools updates like eveyone else
[17:45:54] <wjp> hm, does anyone release frequent compiler updates?
[17:47:11] <Colourless> well you'd think that a serious compiler problem would be something that would cause a point release to be made
[17:48:01] <Colourless> or in MS terms a 'service pack' :-)
[17:50:47] <Fingolfin> "serious compiler" problem - well that would be something that affects a lot of things...
[17:51:02] <Fingolfin> so far, pentagram is the only thing I am aware of that is affect (but apparently Apple knows a few more)...
[17:51:08] <Fingolfin> it hardly seems pressing...
[17:51:18] <Colourless> the exult bug
[17:51:21] <Fingolfin> we have a couple thousand ported packages in Fink, yet never have we encountered that error
[17:51:37] <Fingolfin> exult bug seems grave, yes, but again, I am not aware of a single application that is affected
[17:51:47] <Fingolfin> mostly probably because not many apps are actually using iostreams =)
[18:09:41] <wjp> dinner, bbl
[18:09:56] <Colourless> i'm off
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[19:22:45] <Dominus> hi
[19:22:47] <Dominus> someone was looking for me here
[19:22:49] <Dominus> how strange
[19:26:48] <wjp> at 5am, it seems :-)
[19:27:43] <Dominus> strange as the nick doesn't seem very familiar...
[19:30:43] <wjp> it doesn't?
[19:31:41] <wjp> could be Zosite Kanstyte Styles
[19:32:14] <Dominus> huh?
[19:32:38] <wjp> forum regular
[19:33:06] <Dominus> oh
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[20:08:59] <artaxerxes> hi all
[20:09:02] <Dominus> hi artaxerxes
[20:09:08] <wjp> hi
[20:09:25] <artaxerxes> just popping up with regard to your comment in the forum Dominus.
[20:09:41] <wjp> which one?
[20:09:44] <wjp> :-)
[20:09:47] <artaxerxes> (the one about putting mockup in Exult's toolset)
[20:09:49] <Dominus> which of the countless ones?
[20:09:55] <Dominus> ah
[20:10:08] <Dominus> why not put it in there?
[20:10:15] <artaxerxes> do you guys require me to convert it to c++ ?
[20:10:30] <wjp> no
[20:11:01] <artaxerxes> do you require me to write a man page about it?
[20:11:09] <wjp> maybe if you want to integrate it into ExultStudio...
[20:11:11] <wjp> manpage would help
[20:11:19] <wjp> not really necessary, though
[20:11:30] <wjp> I would like something of a readme
[20:11:32] <artaxerxes> how would you like me to integrate it to ES ?
[20:11:46] <wjp> I have no idea :-)
[20:12:02] <Dominus> maybe have it in the source and then Jeff will take a closer look and implement it...
[20:12:06] <artaxerxes> having an dialog option: load BMP as map?
[20:12:07] <Dominus> integrate
[20:12:34] <wjp> something like that, probably
[20:13:17] <artaxerxes> exult/mapedit/mockup.c is ok with everyone?
[20:13:30] <wjp> I'd prefer a subdirectory of its own
[20:13:45] <artaxerxes> exult/mapedit/mockup/mockup.[ch] is ok with everyone?
[20:13:51] <wjp> :-)
[20:13:53] <wjp> ok by me :-)
[20:14:05] <artaxerxes> done
[20:14:05] <wjp> you might want to check with the ML
[20:14:09] <artaxerxes> k
[20:14:20] <wjp> (since creating subdirs is non-reversable in CVS)
[20:14:30] <Dominus> yeah, we need some content there and not ony spam
[20:14:32] <wjp> well, not 'really' reversable :-)
[20:16:54] <Dominus> artaxerxes: wjp fixed french usecode with pentagram and you can now use it without renaming it
[20:17:07] <artaxerxes> GREAT! :-)
[20:17:33] <Dominus> when will you port it to zaurus?
[20:17:34] <Dominus> :-)
[20:18:13] <artaxerxes> when I'm member of pentagram! :-)
[20:18:57] <wjp> you're not just saying that to get access to current CVS, are you? ;-)
[20:20:20] <artaxerxes> You devil you! :-)
[20:20:34] <Dominus> I think suppport for zaurus is the most important stepp for pentagram as it will make all the millions of zaurus users want to play it.
[20:20:50] <artaxerxes> actually, I think pentagram is using a resolution not supported by the zaurus, so there is no point for me to join pentagram!
[20:21:13] <wjp> that's easily fixed :-)
[20:21:22] <artaxerxes> Dominus: want to play zaurus or to play pentagram?
[20:21:38] <Dominus> he he
[20:21:40] <artaxerxes> wjp: tell me more!
[20:21:44] * artaxerxes is interested
[20:21:44] <Dominus> t play pentagram
[20:21:49] <Dominus> just one line
[20:21:53] <artaxerxes> brb
[20:22:26] <Dominus> as longs as the zaurus doesn't trigger the divide by zero bug :-)
[20:22:59] <wjp> I think we're fairly safe :-)
[20:23:37] <artaxerxes> back
[20:23:51] <artaxerxes> if you can run pentagram on 320x240, then I'm game!
[20:23:56] <wjp> (for the uninitiated: our FPS counter causes a divide by zero when you render frames within a millisecond)
[20:24:15] <wjp> Dominus' system triggers it at 320x200 :-)
[20:24:22] <artaxerxes> if it does, I'll disable the counter! :-)
[20:24:38] * wjp grumbles something about P4's and memory bandwidth
[20:26:08] <wjp> funny how the disclaimer under artaxerxes' mails is longer than the actual message, most of the time :-)
[20:26:28] <Dominus> :-)
[20:26:42] <wjp> I get 4ms in 320x200
[20:27:43] <artaxerxes> sorry about that. It's my work's policy
[20:27:54] <wjp> I guessed as much :-)
[20:28:58] <artaxerxes> I'll try to type longer mail! :-)
[20:29:22] <wjp> Dominus: interesting commit message for the ChangeLog
[20:29:36] <wjp> mind if I ask what you did there? :-)
[20:29:48] <artaxerxes> also, keep in mind the zaurus is not exactly as fast as a P4. Not much risk of get 4ms
[20:30:13] <Dominus> oh my
[20:30:57] <Dominus> my text editor must have either added or left out a space at the end of lines
[20:31:48] <Dominus> that sucks
[20:31:52] <Dominus> I'm sorry
[20:31:58] <wjp> np, just don't do it too often :-)
[20:32:21] <Dominus> it even snips off the newline at the end...
[20:33:30] <artaxerxes> wjp: what I'll do is getting the latest cvs from pentagram and I'll see if I can port it to the zaurus. If I can, I'll contact you about the changes. If the changes are tiny, there is not much reason for me to join. I guess you don't want to have the same story as happened to exult
[20:33:54] <wjp> I don't? (which story is that?)
[20:34:13] <Dominus> many inactive devs
[20:34:16] <Dominus> I guess
[20:34:21] <wjp> artaxerxes: http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/pentagram
[20:35:00] * wjp wonders what happened to ChangeLog
[20:35:37] <artaxerxes> I see the Changelog fine there
[20:35:46] <wjp> yeah, it's fine
[20:35:48] <wjp> but the diff was huge
[20:36:39] <Dominus> it did it before with the makfeile.mingw and the readme I guess
[20:36:50] <Dominus> but I can't really tell what it did
[20:37:01] * wjp is examining the file with a hexeditor :-)
[20:37:15] * artaxerxes is getting cvs data
[20:37:59] <wjp> yes.. it seems to have deleted trailing spaces
[20:38:17] <artaxerxes> what's your editor Dominus ?
[20:38:30] <wjp> can't hurt, I guess :-)
[20:38:34] <Dominus> which is in general not bad but wreaks havok with our cvs
[20:38:40] <Dominus> proton
[20:38:47] <wjp> just deleting the trailing endlines is a bit annoying
[20:38:49] <Dominus> http://www.meybohm.de/proton.html
[20:39:13] <Dominus> yep that is annoying, it does fine when I manually add it before saving
[20:39:39] <Dominus> Proton is an universal source-code editor with
[20:39:40] <Dominus> syntax-highlighting support for 30 different
[20:39:40] <Dominus> languages.
[20:40:00] <artaxerxes> I'm already drooling thinking of the first pentagram screenshot on the zaurus! :-)
[20:40:15] <wjp> :-)
[20:40:44] <artaxerxes> darn! I just realised it's gonna be really hard to bypass the fact there is only one mouse button: the pen!
[20:41:57] * wjp nods
[20:42:23] <artaxerxes> ChangeLog's head show the last update was 2003-06-16. I assume it's not correct, right?
[20:42:41] <wjp> did you get a cvs copy from that dir I mentioned?
[20:42:44] <artaxerxes> Initial preparation...this can take awhile, so sit tight...
[20:42:53] <wjp> SF's anonymous cvs servers are days behind
[20:42:54] <artaxerxes> you wrote that! :-)
[20:43:03] <wjp> no, Fingolfin did
[20:43:04] <artaxerxes> s/you/sho
[20:43:09] <artaxerxes> s/you/who
[20:43:23] <wjp> s/no, //, in that case :-)
[20:43:54] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[20:45:26] <artaxerxes> the zip file is also taken as anonymous.... weird
[20:45:33] <artaxerxes> more CVS/Root
[20:45:39] <artaxerxes> :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/pentagram
[20:45:44] <wjp> yes, I know ;-)
[20:46:03] <wjp> (caused by a little perl magic ;-) )
[20:47:22] <artaxerxes> at least it's easier to build than Exult: there are no options available for ./configure!
[20:47:47] <wjp> um, oh?
[20:47:59] * artaxerxes is wondering if it will take as long to build though
[20:48:16] <artaxerxes> almost no options
[20:49:02] <artaxerxes> btw, mockup relies on SDL_image which make an additional dependency for ES. Is that ok with you?
[20:49:38] <Dominus> ES has so many dependancies I don't think it will matter much
[20:50:50] <artaxerxes> do you still consider pentagram in pre-alpha (like what the sf page says)
[20:50:59] <wjp> yes
[20:51:08] <wjp> you can't even walk or move items yet :-)
[20:51:23] <Dominus> artaxerxes: about the resolution:
[20:51:24] <Dominus> kernel/Application.cpp, look for width=640, height=480
[20:51:31] <artaxerxes> yeah, but you cast spells and change the map on the fly!
[20:52:00] <artaxerxes> Dominus: will do. right now I'm compiling for x86 just to check
[20:52:49] <artaxerxes> what is the purpose of fold ?
[20:53:03] <wjp> usecode decompiler in progress
[20:54:07] <Dominus> artaxerxes: btw we have a nice pentagram channel at #pentagram and logs at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/pentagramlog.php (if you are bored with the exult logs sometimes)
[20:54:38] <artaxerxes> thx
[20:54:46] <wjp> ummm... omg
[20:54:55] <wjp> pentagramlogs got over 10000 hits this month
[20:55:09] <wjp> 1909 in all of may
[20:55:27] <Dominus> someone must have mentioned pentagram somewhere
[20:55:38] * artaxerxes sings: google, quand tu nous tiens...
[20:55:38] <Dominus> this is very strange
[20:55:41] <wjp> not just pentagram
[20:55:53] <artaxerxes> exultlog too?
[20:56:02] <wjp> pentagram: 10790, uwadv: 10613, nuvie: 10555, exult: 7948
[20:56:15] <wjp> (and the old url for exult: 2142)
[20:56:31] <wjp> the next highest one on our server has 733 :-)
[20:56:57] <Dominus> hmm
[20:57:04] <artaxerxes> gotta put some banners on those pages wjp ! :-)
[20:57:11] <Dominus> he he
[20:57:11] <artaxerxes> ROI etc.
[20:57:39] <wjp> hmmm
[20:57:47] <wjp> 1 34811 21.39% Mozilla/2.0 (compatible; Ask Jeeves/Teoma)
[20:58:05] <wjp> that wasn't there _at all_ last month
[20:58:15] <artaxerxes> what does llc do ?
[20:58:25] <wjp> usecode compiler in progress
[20:58:46] <wjp> why on earth did ask jeeves cause 10K hits
[20:59:34] <Dominus> btw, artaxerxes look at guiapp.cpp for the resolution stuff
[20:59:42] <wjp> pentagram logs are at most a couple of hundred pages
[20:59:56] <wjp> maybe it discovered that the last page changes every couple of seconds :-)
[21:00:06] <wjp> and so it's refreshing it every couple of seconds? :-)
[21:00:34] <wjp> would you believe that's 2 hits per minute? :-)
[21:01:23] <wjp> ack... it's even worse
[21:01:29] <wjp> it only started 4 days ago
[21:01:41] <artaxerxes> there is no "make install" for pentagram! and then it complains it doesn't find the data on /usr/local/share/pentagram! :-)
[21:02:07] <wjp> hm, the two per minute was supposed to be one per two minutes :-)
[21:02:17] <wjp> artaxerxes: details details :-)
[21:03:13] <artaxerxes> [aurelien@tor-web-997 pentagram]$ make install
[21:03:13] <artaxerxes> make: *** No rule to make target `install'. Stop.
[21:03:15] <wjp> hm, it actually stopped a couple of days ago
[21:03:25] <wjp> all of that was actually within 24 hours
[21:03:56] <artaxerxes> virtual path "@data": /usr/local/share/pentagram
[21:04:12] <artaxerxes> although I set it to sth else in ~/.pentagram.cfg
[21:04:19] <wjp> ~/.pentagram/pentagram.cfg
[21:04:28] <artaxerxes> ah
[21:04:32] <artaxerxes> of course
[21:04:37] <wjp> config/general/data
[21:05:11] <wjp> 7 hits per minute per log... about 25 hits per minute for 24 hours... nuts
[21:05:59] <wjp> so Ask Jeeves must know _everything_ about pentagram now :-)
[21:07:31] * artaxerxes is leaving soon
[21:07:56] <artaxerxes> Hey! cool
[21:08:17] <artaxerxes> pentagram compiled and is running at 25FPS over the network! :-)
[21:08:33] <artaxerxes> (I have a remote X from linux to windows)
[21:09:27] <artaxerxes> support for french is working btw!
[21:09:45] <artaxerxes> I've been attacked by a guard and my body exploded
[21:09:49] <wjp> 'porte verouillee' is closed door, I guess?
[21:09:53] <artaxerxes> yup
[21:10:02] <artaxerxes> actually, locked door
[21:10:14] <wjp> um, yes, I meant that :-)
[21:10:35] <artaxerxes> too bad the resolution can't be changed from the config file
[21:11:23] <artaxerxes> it's quite a frill to play pentagram on linux. congratz guys!
[21:12:10] <artaxerxes> the conversation with Devon is perfect! Is there a shortcut for screenshots?
[21:12:26] <wjp> no
[21:12:46] <wjp> submit a feature request ;-)
[21:13:03] <Dominus> I *think* all the shortcuts in thecvs version are listed
[21:13:50] <artaxerxes> gotta go
[21:13:58] <artaxerxes> good joib guys! I'll keep you posted!
[21:14:02] <wjp> bye
[21:14:04] <artaxerxes> s/joib/job
[21:14:05] <Dominus> yeah
[21:14:06] <wjp> and thx :-)
[21:14:10] <artaxerxes> thank you!
[21:14:16] <Dominus> please tell us if it works on zaurus :-)
[21:14:17] <Dominus> bye
[21:14:20] <artaxerxes> will do
[21:14:22] <artaxerxes> gone
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[22:53:40] <servus> msys crashes like crazy! =-/
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[22:57:44] <`daniel> hello
[23:01:42] <servus> hi
[23:02:18] <`daniel> hows work go on your project?
[23:03:51] <servus> mine? slow. i haven't been very motivated lately.. right now im trying to compile pentagram and msys is crashing like crazy, and furthermore i cant get themakefile to work :-/... when I read it, it seems as though everything is in order but it just is not working
[23:06:45] <servus> the environment variables at the top of the makefile dont seem to be getting used... don't suppose you could offer some pointers? :)
[23:07:50] <DarkeZzz> Which environment variables? And no, I probably can't, but I can try. *grin*
[23:08:02] <servus> specifically, CPP_FLAGS
[23:08:29] <servus> it is simply trying to run g++ pentagram.cpp -o pentagram, without adding all the flags for include directories.
[23:11:40] <DarkeZzz> CPP_FLAGS? I've only got a CPPFLAGS, I guess that's what you mean.
[23:11:47] <servus> CPPFLAGS i meant
[23:12:21] <servus> perhaps im running the make program wrong? is it `mingw32-make pentagram`? i'm quite dull at this :)
[23:13:09] <DarkeZzz> I dunno. I just normally run 'make' in the root source dir and It Just Works. *grin*
[23:13:51] * DarkeZzz has run make under windows precicely once for pentagram though, and it was quite a while ago, so he can't be certain of much. *grin*
[23:15:30] <servus> hah, i did a *manual* compile
[23:16:04] <DarkeZzz> How do you mean? Did it work?
[23:16:19] <servus> i wrote a 15 line console command, and it seemed to work.
[23:16:44] <servus> (slight exaggeration, more like 5 lines:)
[23:16:54] <DarkeZzz> Heh.
[23:17:07] <DarkeZzz> So it was just when linking? Or when compiling all the object files?
[23:17:22] <servus> i have not yet linked it...
[23:17:47] <DarkeZzz> Ahh. Ok.
[23:17:55] <servus> I have lots of disgusting little MSys and MinGW path issues and such to sort out still, before that...
[23:18:58] * `daniel urges servus to join the darkside and use linux
[23:19:05] <DarkeZzz> That 'might' be partially the cause of the weird problems you're experiencing, I'm guessing it would be good to fix those. *grin*
[23:19:45] <servus> I have one box!
[23:19:47] <`daniel> come on servus, you know you want to. Imagine compiling pentagram right for once... oh the exileration of it all!
[23:19:52] <servus> besides, i have a *full* bash shell in xp :>
[23:20:17] <`daniel> your phony xp bash script does not fool me.
[23:20:24] <servus> they are not phony!
[23:20:27] <`daniel> ehehe
[23:20:41] <`daniel> servus, i liked dos a real lot
[23:20:44] <servus> one error left before it links :)g++.exe: LIBS=-lmingw32: No such file or directory
[23:21:00] <`daniel> can't say i was ever pleased with windows though, it became so unstable after that
[23:21:11] <servus> my comps been up for weeks.
[23:21:22] <`daniel> yeh
[23:21:28] <`daniel> if you use it according to microsoft
[23:21:34] <`daniel> of course it will be stable
[23:21:49] <servus> I hardly do that...
[23:22:08] <`daniel> well it crashed on me in many occasions
[23:22:10] <servus> MinGW, Cygwin, GCC, G++, SSH, etc etc.
[23:22:14] <`daniel> maybe not for the programs you used
[23:22:39] * DarkeZzz actually doesn't mind XP. He can bash it around like he does his linux box and it lasts a whole 5 or 6 days before dying in a horrible mess, unlike '98 which died in about an hour and 2k which died in about 3 days. *grin*
[23:22:41] <servus> XP doesn't crash... Some programs still crash of course, but that's due to the program itself, and it doesn't affect the OS.
[23:22:57] <DarkeZzz> Ha! Riiiiight! *grin*
[23:23:14] * servus readies a large trout.
[23:23:27] <`daniel> like when MS word crashes whilst autosaving after having worked 5 hours on a project. and then the corrupted autosave is all you have and all the work is gone... GONE!!
[23:23:27] * DarkeZzz supports winXP at work. You won't BELIEVE the way it keels over and dies in a spectacular mannar. *grin*
[23:24:18] <DarkeZzz> Or when some git decides to install Comet Curser and it randomly screws around with *something* and causes random crashes for three or four days until someone works out what the heck the problem is. *grin*
[23:24:22] <`daniel> I have to admit that win2k is pretty good compared to XP
[23:24:40] <`daniel> but thats just my opinion
[23:25:04] <servus> That's because people install stupid things! If you install malware like Comet Cursor or those porn programs or Internet Explorer [*] Toolbar, it'll go funky on ya.
[23:25:30] <`daniel> the only thing I'd run win2k server edition is for AD. DCHP, DNS, proxy and all the others can run on seperate linux/unix boxes thanks
[23:26:12] <DarkeZzz> Or the fact that if your hardware is even *slightly* dodgy (expecially the ram!) winxp doesn't have a clue how to play nice with it and makes things go all pear shaped in quick order. Replace the OS with pretty much anything non-windows and it works fine. Incredibly bizzare that.
[23:26:44] <DarkeZzz> servus: The problem is people do. And you really can't stop them.
[23:26:57] <servus> Sure I can! That's what the large trout is for.
[23:27:18] <DarkeZzz> This is, of course, avoiding the fact that userspace programs should *not* be able to thorougly trash an OS. *grin*
[23:27:21] <DarkeZzz> Heh. *grin*
[23:27:31] <DarkeZzz> Anyway, I must hop off to work and use the large trout on people. *grin*
[23:27:41] <servus> I've only gotten XP to hard-crash once... I wrote to negative memory on my video card. :-)
[23:27:44] <servus> Alright, bye.
[23:29:04] <`daniel> cya
[23:29:52] * DarkeZzz got 2k to hard crash consistantly. He wrote a little program with DJGPP, which somehow triggered a rather terminal bug in the dos emulator and everything auto-rebooted whenever you ran it. Much fun and pain. *grin* Anyway, off now!
[23:31:01] <servus> Now we get "Fatal Error in NTVDM" and it crashes the dos box :)
[23:31:02] <servus> 'ta
[23:36:42] <servus> well i will try to scrounge up enough stuff to build a new computer... 'ta.
[23:36:46] <-- servus has left IRC ()