#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 19 Sep 2006 (GMT)

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[00:05:49] <Dalian> (it's a song/flash video)
[00:07:19] <wizardrydragon> There is no cow level!
[00:07:20] <wizardrydragon> :)
[00:07:42] <SB-X> More cowbell!
[00:08:00] <Dalian> :)
[00:08:27] <Dalian> I got a fever, and the only prescription is more cowbell!
[00:10:46] <SB-X> hehe, I saw that video just a few days ago
[00:20:08] * servus raises an eyebrow.
[00:53:28] <Dalian> servus: somehow I overlooked shift-f3
[00:55:12] <SB-X> Is it documented anywhere? The only place I read about shift-f3 was on the exult forum.
[00:55:29] <Marzo> It is undocumented yet
[00:56:11] <Dalian> ahh ok I feel better then
[00:56:14] <Marzo> (if you *really* want to have it documented, it is time to poke Dominus :-))
[00:59:21] <Dalian> well it's a bit too useful for a modder for it to be undocumented :)
[00:59:49] <Marzo> I think Dominus is waiting for the 1.4 release before adding documentation for these things
[01:00:01] <Marzo> To prevent confusion, most likely
[01:00:29] <SB-X> wjp the next release will likely be named 1.5
[01:00:37] <SB-X> wjp said*
[01:00:42] <Marzo> Yes, I know
[01:00:49] <Dalian> any other undocumented goodies? :p
[01:01:01] <Marzo> The mod manager system, for one
[01:01:02] <SB-X> that isn't any less confusing though :)
[01:01:07] <Marzo> Agreed
[01:02:36] <Dalian> mod manager on the user end, or the modder's?
[01:02:37] * SB-X wonders if the next unstable CVS version will then be named 1.6 and be released as 1.7.
[01:02:46] <SB-X> both!
[01:03:02] <Marzo> It is meant for modders to use to make mod installation easier
[01:03:03] <SB-X> the user just has to select a game on the menu afaik
[01:03:15] <Marzo> SB-X completed my train of thought
[01:03:15] <Dalian> sb-x: right
[01:03:25] <SB-X> hehe
[01:03:33] <SB-X> np
[01:03:53] <SB-X> I should play with making a mod again, now that Marzo has made it much easier to work with ES.
[01:03:57] <Dalian> i'm currently working on mine in patch. Shouldn't be any issues with moving it a mod folder later right?
[01:04:08] <SB-X> Last time I used ES I just tried rebuilding Skara Brae.
[01:04:14] <Marzo> None that I am aware of
[01:04:39] <Dalian> sb-x: it's pretty stable for me, only a few bugs now and then that crash it
[01:04:41] <Marzo> One thing that I have been thinking that might make map-editing more safe but at the same time slightly less intuitive
[01:04:50] <servus> Aren't release versions usually even-numbered?
[01:05:12] <Marzo> Currently, there are three main types of objects in the game map: flats, terrain objects and all others
[01:05:14] <servus> You could make a Warcraft-stle map editing, where instead of painting with specific chunks, you paint with "grass" and it figures it out
[01:05:38] <Dalian> I like it how it works currently, more or less
[01:05:48] <Marzo> Flats can only be edited in edit terrain mode; terrain game objects can be edited in all, even though they are part of the chunk itself too
[01:06:10] <Marzo> I am thinking of making terrain objects editable only in edit terrain mode too
[01:06:17] <Dalian> the thing I have to be really careful of is moving a piece on a chunk by accident
[01:06:18] <SB-X> Dalian: You said you didn't understand how they could easily draw complete chunks by painting with the small tiles?
[01:06:54] <Marzo> This is related to a 'problem' you (Dalian) mentioned wherein you would move an object and a copy of it would remain where it was
[01:06:58] <SB-X> If you just painted with grass then you wouldn't have to worry about which tile to pick. (of course, I'm you'd still be able to choose them yourself)
[01:07:08] <Marzo> The object you were moving was a terrain object
[01:07:48] <Dalian> Marzo: I've not encountered that except in one map I was working on. I think it was because when you load up the game and ES, ES shows you are on the Main map even if you aren't necessarily
[01:08:37] <Dalian> SB-X: ah yeah. I was trying to make a river chunk for SI, but the muddy grass tiles are hard to make out. A wooden floor was a lot easier
[01:08:52] <Marzo> In any case, since moving/deleting terrain objects means you are editing the chunk (something you may not neccessarily want to do), I think having it done only in edit terrain mode makes sense
[01:09:12] <Dalian> Marzo: that would be a lot safer, yes
[01:12:51] <servus> Or it could have a confirmation popup "Duplicate this chunk and start editing?" in the othe rmode.
[01:13:04] <Dalian> as a workaround I was simply deleting u7chunks from patch if that happened. Now that I added a chunk I'm just replacing it if I mess up
[01:14:04] <Dalian> That's one thing I'd really like to see, and I put it on the features request. duplicating chunks adds it to the end rather than inserting it
[01:15:00] <wizardrydragon> Dalian: I just have u7chunks and then u7chunks.bak and then if I much the old oen I restore from the backup
[01:15:32] <Dalian> That way, it wouldn't be necessary to recreate a certain chunk just because you don't want a certain wall. Or if you just want a chunk with the floor
[01:15:48] <Dalian> wizardry: whatever works :)
[01:16:49] <wizardrydragon> Would be nice to have a reversion option in ES
[01:17:06] <Marzo> Agree
[01:18:24] <wizardrydragon> It would require it to change from editing files directly to editing the image of the file in memory, however.
[01:18:34] <wizardrydragon> It currently does not do this for the chunks AFAIK
[01:19:17] <Marzo> There is some undo code in Exult for flats, but I don't know how close to working it is yet
[01:19:37] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: It's not close to working at all :)
[01:20:01] <wizardrydragon> Dalian: you can duplicate chunks, you know.
[01:20:22] <Dalian> wizardy: yes..but they are inserted after the chunk you are duplicating, which is bad
[01:20:29] <wizardrydragon> Bad howso?
[01:20:35] <Dalian> it throws off the numbering
[01:20:38] <wizardrydragon> It comphensates for the difference.
[01:20:43] <wizardrydragon> It being ExultStudio
[01:22:32] <Dalian> hmm I see that it compensates on the map, but the groups get hosed
[01:22:43] <wizardrydragon> Ah thats true
[01:22:54] * wizardrydragon pokes Colourless
[01:23:21] <Dalian> I could *almost* live with that..heh
[01:23:33] <wizardrydragon> Almost
[01:23:37] <Dalian> they are time consuming to make tho
[01:25:08] <SB-X> how does ES compensate for the difference?
[01:25:33] <wizardrydragon> If you poke Marzo long enough he might fix that
[01:25:49] <Marzo> Or might poke back with the Death Scythe :-)
[01:26:07] <wizardrydragon> SB-X It changes the outdated references on the maps
[01:26:18] <SB-X> Shouldn't ES just order the chunks with its own chunk list, instead of changing chunk numbers and breaking combos?
[01:26:30] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: Shh. That works with the fellow developers, not the fans :)
[01:26:31] <SB-X> Why does it have to list them in order of chunk number?
[01:26:46] <wizardrydragon> SB-X: Because Exult goes poof otherwise.
[01:27:13] <SB-X> Exult wouldn't know the difference. (but apparently it does now)
[01:27:37] <wizardrydragon> SB-X: the only way Exult has of referencing chunks is bynum
[01:27:48] <SB-X> I'm saying ES could display the chunks in any arbitrary order, not by their actual number. Don't change the numbers that Exult knows.
[01:27:51] <wizardrydragon> It would be nice to pass chunks byref and not byval :)
[01:28:17] * wizardrydragon wanders off into programming terminology land.
[01:29:37] <wizardrydragon> SB-X: Arbitrary reordering *should* be included in ES, I agree.
[01:30:10] <SB-X> ExultStudio's main chunk list could just be one giant group, saved in the same way as the other chunk groups are now.
[01:30:28] <wizardrydragon> That could work
[01:30:29] <SB-X> I don't know what the groups file format is though.
[01:30:34] <SB-X> so I'm not sure
[01:30:35] <wizardrydragon> Me either
[01:31:05] <SB-X> I'll take your word on it that it's possible since you use ES all the time. :)
[01:31:49] <wizardrydragon> Its possible but Im not sure what it would break :)
[01:31:59] <SB-X> hehe, me neither
[01:32:07] <SB-X> ES didn't even have chunk groups last time I used it. :P
[01:32:28] <SB-X> (used it for more than a few moments anyway)
[01:32:40] <SB-X> or a few minutes* :p
[01:33:00] <SB-X> if it did I don't remember them
[01:33:06] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[01:33:10] <wizardrydragon> Its had them for ages
[01:33:18] <wizardrydragon> They just didnt work for the longest time
[01:33:27] <SB-X> well maybe it did, because it had combos then
[01:33:32] <servus> Do you still need a full chunks group file for SI?
[01:37:54] <Dalian> Maybe the Groups code could be fixed to compensate for new chunks. Also, there is a reproducable bug with organizing Groups
[01:38:32] <Dalian> If you try to move a chunk down past where it's visible in the list, ES invariably crashes
[01:38:50] <wizardrydragon> Aw but the non-reproducible bugs that are the interesting ones
[01:39:15] <Dalian> heh
[01:41:41] <wizardrydragon> And groups is still buggy
[01:42:00] <wizardrydragon> Just be happy it works at all :)
[01:42:19] <Dalian> aye
[01:42:47] <wizardrydragon> For the longest time it just didn't :)
[01:42:47] <SB-X> servus: Nope, thanks anyway!
[01:42:55] <Dalian> hmm
[01:43:46] <Dalian> if it's compensating for adding chunks, then organizing the actual list might be a better route for me. I do like groups tho
[01:44:11] <Dalian> hmm then again
[01:44:25] <Dalian> maybe not such a good idea
[01:44:39] <wizardrydragon> Personally Id rather just be able to move them in the asctual chunk list but doing that is sketchy right now
[01:44:53] <SB-X> If you made the list a group then it would be transparent to the user. The chunks would look the same to you except that they would never get renumbered by ES.
[01:45:01] <SB-X> When do you ever need to change the real chunk numbers?
[01:45:30] <SB-X> Except perhaps to swap two chunks.
[01:45:35] <wizardrydragon> When you add new ones
[01:45:49] <wizardrydragon> Not all add can be appends
[01:45:53] <wizardrydragon> *adds
[01:46:02] <SB-X> Why?
[01:46:05] <wizardrydragon> Or rather, make sense as appends.
[01:47:43] <Dalian> like if I wanted to use a certain chunk, but don't want one element of it. I can duplicate that chunk and modify the duplicate. That's fine except for it messes up Groups
[01:48:02] <SB-X> Oh well, I'll play with ES again before complaining that it should be changed.
[01:48:03] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[01:48:05] <Dalian> unless I hit 'move down' 3000 times or so :)
[01:48:41] <wizardrydragon> DalianA: Indeed. There should be a button to move it X spaces up/down, and one to move it to the bottom/top
[01:48:51] <Dalian> that'd be nice
[01:49:22] <wizardrydragon> Ive been trying to get that added for quite a while now.
[01:49:24] <Dalian> either way. changing the chunk browser, or changing how groups # them
[01:49:24] <wizardrydragon> :)
[01:49:35] <SB-X> I don't see that couldn't be transparently handled by ES, or why you need to worry about chunk numbers/ordering at all (you can't reference chunks by number in usecode), but again I'll try working with ES and might find out why then.
[01:49:35] <Dalian> either would work
[01:49:52] <wizardrydragon> Exult refs bynum SB-X
[01:49:52] <Dalian> sb-x: I'm not sure you understand the issue :)
[01:49:57] <SB-X> before asking more questions about ES :)
[01:50:28] <wizardrydragon> Its not an ES issue when it comes to numbers
[01:50:32] <wizardrydragon> Its an Exult issue
[01:50:40] <wizardrydragon> the ONLY way Exult can ref chunks is bynum
[01:51:05] <SB-X> Dalian: Fair enough, that's why I need to try working with ES and get used to it again before suggesting feature changes.
[01:51:09] <SB-X> :)
[01:51:26] <SB-X> yeah that's true
[01:52:05] <wizardrydragon> Id rather that changed, but that would require a significant amount of reprogramming looking at the code
[01:52:06] <Dalian> I'm sure it's 100x better than what the Origin team had to work with
[01:52:19] <wizardrydragon> Dalian: only 100%? :)
[01:52:23] <wizardrydragon> *100x
[01:52:24] <Dalian> heh
[01:52:43] <Dalian> and they were probably forced to work in 320x200 ;)
[01:52:49] <wizardrydragon> The U7Wizard isa probably 100x better than what they had for map editing :)
[01:57:20] <Dalian> i still can't get it to work
[01:57:55] <wizardrydragon> What problem is befouling you now, Dalian?
[01:57:56] <Dalian> rather
[01:58:07] <Dalian> SI doesn't want to work under dosbox
[01:58:08] <wizardrydragon> Theres been a few discussed so youll have to specify :)
[01:58:13] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[01:58:25] <Dalian> it starts to, but there's something wiggy about the paths
[01:58:30] <wizardrydragon> Yeah it can be fussy because of the "memory manager"
[01:58:36] <Dalian> I got that part fixed
[02:00:17] <wizardrydragon> Oh really? How?
[02:00:56] <Dalian> File "C:\\GAMEDAT\ACTION.DAT" not found! Notice the two slashes
[02:01:28] <Dalian> u7wizard won't run until you've played the game, is why I'm doing this
[02:01:50] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[02:02:20] <Dalian> it can't be as good as ES, anyway :)
[02:02:57] <wizardrydragon> Hehe
[02:03:05] <wizardrydragon> Its better in a few ways
[02:03:13] <wizardrydragon> But I still prefer ES greatly
[02:12:29] <Dalian> I'm having an odd problem with ES + SI. There's a file called FONT0000.VGA in the Shapes
[02:12:49] <wizardrydragon> Its not a true VGA file.
[02:12:53] <Dalian> Clicking on it causes a runtime error
[02:13:09] <wizardrydragon> In fact I remember hearing that its actually a screensaver
[02:13:11] <Dalian> yeah I know..so don't click on it :) I did it a few times by accident tho
[02:13:13] <Marzo> The font0000.vga is apparently from an old screensaver
[02:13:26] <wizardrydragon> See, Im not crazy :)
[02:13:27] <Dalian> ahh..so maybe I can get rid of it
[02:13:30] <Marzo> Maybe adding a filter in ES to not display it?
[02:14:07] <wizardrydragon> Can probably safely get rid of it.
[02:14:12] <wizardrydragon> Emphasis on probably.
[02:14:32] <wizardrydragon> Def. should filter it though
[02:14:50] <Dalian> well the game doesn't complain if I move it out of static
[02:15:05] <Marzo> Exult does not use it in any way
[02:15:22] <Marzo> And there is reasonable evidence for SI not using it too
[02:15:25] <Dalian> hehe
[02:15:30] <wizardrydragon> Could be interesting to take it apart and see if theres anything usable in it.
[02:15:38] <wizardrydragon> But other than that it has no value to us :)
[02:16:00] <Marzo> The problem would be to figure out the format, since we have only the file and no info on it at all
[02:16:20] <Marzo> I *think* there is an exe that loads it too, but I am not sure
[02:16:27] <wizardrydragon> Marzo: I know, Ive already tried poking about it with a hex editor and didnt get much out of it
[02:17:20] <Dalian> Setup.exe runs the Screen Saver setup
[02:17:34] <Dalian> says to enter the path to OriginFX..heh
[02:17:57] <wizardrydragon> OriginFX, now theres something I hadnt heard of in quite some time :)
[02:43:40] <-- Dalian has left IRC ("reboot")
[02:54:21] <Marzo> Good night to you all
[02:54:29] <wizardrydragon> Night
[02:54:56] <-- Marzo has left IRC ("Marzo vanishes suddenly.")
[03:02:40] --> Dalian has joined #exult
[04:05:28] <Dalian> ahh...inserting a chunk also resaves the main map into patch. Makes sense
[04:05:45] <wizardrydragon> But no dollars :)
[04:06:02] <Dalian> :)
[04:06:26] <wizardrydragon> Hehe
[04:06:31] <Dalian> that would explain why, when I deleted it from the tfl dir like you said, and tried to teleport to the main map, that the game crashed
[04:06:55] <wizardrydragon> You changed the map?
[04:06:59] <Dalian> nay
[04:07:13] <wizardrydragon> Umm then hows that explain it, heh
[04:08:11] <Dalian> er..yeah. By 'changed' I thought you meant did I modify it
[04:08:29] <wizardrydragon> Okay now you've jhust flat out confused me
[04:08:31] <wizardrydragon> :)
[04:08:39] <SB-X> :o
[04:09:13] * wizardrydragon pokes SB-X.
[04:09:28] <SB-X> :O
[04:09:32] <Dalian> ahh that's what it was
[04:09:52] <Dalian> It doesn't crash when I switch to the main Britannia map and teleport. It crashes when I then switch back to Map01 and try to teleport
[04:09:52] * SB-X pokes Baastuul.
[04:09:58] <-- Baastuul has left IRC ("Good day.")
[04:10:04] <SB-X> haha
[04:10:13] <SB-X> sorry :|
[04:10:40] <SB-X> Baastuul
[04:10:47] <SB-X> he'll be back :)
[04:10:58] <Dalian> ok...I see
[04:11:21] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[04:11:24] <Dalian> Your mod doesn't start on map01, but map02. If you go to map01, it's mostly void. If you try to teleport to the one area that's visible, it crashes
[04:11:37] <wizardrydragon> Yes Exult doesnt like map01 for some reason
[04:12:40] <Dalian> you mean in yours? I've been modding on map01 w/o too much trouble
[04:12:49] <wizardrydragon> Yes.
[04:12:58] <wizardrydragon> Theres no reason it shouldnt
[04:13:32] <Dalian> can't copy map02 into map01?
[04:13:53] <wizardrydragon> I want to keep my changes to Map01 if I can.
[04:14:14] <wizardrydragon> Marzo did some map changes, so Ill ask him if he broke my map ;)
[04:14:16] <Dalian> so it works but not w/teleporting
[04:14:33] <Dalian> not that I believe in using those cheats in a game..but it's useful for modding
[04:15:24] <wizardrydragon> Indeed
[04:15:46] <Dalian> I wouldn't want to spoil anything for myself anyway, so shame on me for even looking :)
[04:15:51] <wizardrydragon> F3 doesnt work for me but alt-t does except for certain areas which tells me Marzo mahy have nerfed something bad :)
[04:16:38] <Dalian> nerfherder!
[04:17:35] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[04:17:50] <Dalian> so yeah..I think I can easily make desert for SI. As someone mentioned, the beach chunks would be a good basis for them
[04:17:52] <wizardrydragon> That noun always made me wonder what nerfs were
[04:17:59] <wizardrydragon> And why one would herd them
[04:18:11] <Dalian> apparently some kind of domestic critter :)
[04:18:17] <wizardrydragon> Dalian: thats all BG did, just added some cacti
[04:19:25] <Dalian> hmm...I don't think there are cacti in SI, but that's not really a problem
[04:19:40] <wizardrydragon> Can import them easy
[04:20:25] <Dalian> is that considered okay to do then? Bringing some bg shapes into Si?
[04:21:21] <SB-X> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerf
[04:22:19] <Dalian> I can't see why it'd be a big deal really
[04:22:44] <Dalian> You still need the game, and most people probably have the collection anyway
[04:23:12] <wizardrydragon> Im not worrying about it myself.
[04:23:14] <Dalian> I still want to know why Underworld I-2 wasn't included :|
[04:24:31] <SB-X> Included where?
[04:24:35] <SB-X> In the Ultima Collection?
[04:24:38] <Dalian> yeah
[04:24:44] <SB-X> ah ok
[04:24:59] <Dalian> I can see leaving out the Worlds of Ultima games, but not those
[04:25:19] <wizardrydragon> I agree
[04:25:38] <wizardrydragon> But its EA, theyre not know for intelligent choices.
[04:25:43] <Dalian> true that
[04:25:46] <SB-X> UW1 isn't really an Ultima. I'd like to have seen WoU included.
[04:25:59] <wizardrydragon> I would have loved UW2 being included
[04:26:12] <SB-X> I mean, it wasn't meant to be Ultima originally as you know.
[04:26:16] <wizardrydragon> Once I get myself a mailbox that can take packages Ill have my lack of UW2 fixed though.
[04:26:22] <Dalian> i still have my old silver seed expansion disk..heh
[04:26:48] <SB-X> I still have to get UW1 and UW2. :)
[04:26:53] <SB-X> and play them
[04:27:11] <Dalian> they were good fun. Like Eye of the Beholder
[04:28:02] <wizardrydragon> EotB 1 and 2 or EotB 3?
[04:28:16] <wizardrydragon> Because the first two were awesome, but the third ... *shudder*
[04:28:41] <Dalian> I don't recall if I played 3
[04:28:54] <wizardrydragon> Well dont :)
[04:29:29] <Dalian> did you know they are working on a new Bard's Tale game?
[04:30:17] <Dalian> ah looks like it's already out
[04:30:36] <SB-X> You mean Eye of the Boulder: Runes of the Myth Drainer?
[04:30:38] <Dalian> I used to have the Construction Set but couldn't make much with it
[04:31:53] <wizardrydragon> Speaketh not that name, SB-X!
[04:32:07] <SB-X> Just recalling this thread that mentions a reference to EotB3 in U8, which I didn't get because I never played EotB or much of U8. http://exult.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=34302&t=33942
[04:32:08] <SB-X> :)
[04:32:17] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[04:32:21] <wizardrydragon> Pagan wasnt a bad game
[04:32:26] <wizardrydragon> Just a horrible ultima :)
[04:33:15] <Dalian> I did finish it, and had fun, but yeah, it didn't feel like Ultima too much
[04:34:17] <wizardrydragon> The only thing that made it an Ultima was the name :)
[04:34:55] <SB-X> You can't even be sure buckethead is the avatar!
[04:35:03] <Dalian> lol
[04:37:09] <Dalian> It's starting to look like my friend's paper/dice campaign won't translate too well into a u7 game. So I'm thinking of going with my original idea instead.
[04:37:45] <SB-X> What's preventing you from converting the game to Exult?
[04:38:01] <servus> I am.
[04:38:04] <servus> Don't do that, Dalian.
[04:38:27] <Dalian> lol
[04:38:35] <SB-X> Maybe if he asked nicely.
[04:38:37] <Dalian> well, it's the way a game like that flows, versus how an Ultima game does
[04:39:59] <wizardrydragon> SB-X: he sure doesn't act avatarish, anyways
[04:42:40] <Dalian> tell me if this sounds ok. It's the beginning of Ultima 6, you've just killed the gargoyles and start to talk to LB. Suddenly you find yourself in a strange land, whisked out of space and time to help another world. When you finish you are returned to Britain, and to them it's like you never left. I just want to do some adventures with the Big Three and that was one idea I had to do so
[04:43:46] * servus hides in a deep dark hole from the mean people : o(
[04:44:29] <wizardrydragon> Are you calling me a person, Servus?
[04:45:05] <servus> Ignus herpe magi
[04:48:47] <Dalian> ok maybe not
[04:53:22] <wizardrydragon> Dalian: ??
[04:54:22] <SB-X> I don't like the idea that they get back and it's like you never left.
[04:54:27] <SB-X> Why not just make it a dream?
[04:54:37] <wizardrydragon> Because then it needs a pillar of fire!
[04:54:44] <wizardrydragon> And dream creatures!
[04:54:53] <wizardrydragon> And a juggernaught hammer!
[04:54:58] <SB-X> Is that a problem?
[04:56:56] <wizardrydragon> Everything that we talk about here game idea wise ends up being a problem somehow :)
[04:58:00] <Dalian> dream endings suck!
[04:58:03] <Dalian> :)
[04:58:33] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[04:58:58] <wizardrydragon> Is it sign when all of my dreams end up with me committing suicide by hurling myself in a column of roaring flames?
[04:59:07] <Dalian> could be..
[04:59:10] * wizardrydragon looks around the space craft for Freud
[04:59:40] <wizardrydragon> (Martian Dreams reference in case someone missed it :) )
[04:59:53] <Dalian> I vaguely remember that game
[05:00:00] <Dalian> I don't even remember if I finished it
[05:00:26] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[05:00:48] <SB-X> I remember that I didn't finish it.
[05:01:05] <Dalian> SB-X: well, it's an attempt to not mess with "canon" too much. Maybe I should just not worry about that
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[05:02:11] <SB-X> at least pick a better place for them to be teleported away :)
[05:02:13] <wizardrydragon> To hell with canon, unless you're trying be an Ultima game
[05:02:30] <wizardrydragon> If its hjust your own little mod, go nuts
[05:02:39] <Dalian> true on both
[05:03:41] <Dalian> I thought it could be interesting to have a world that is similar to Britannia, but nobody knows what the moongates are for, etc. That kinda makes me think of Stargate though
[05:04:28] <servus> Hallowed are the EAOri
[05:04:35] <Dalian> going nuts would be the most fun
[05:04:56] <wizardrydragon> Indeed!
[05:04:57] <SB-X> cast "Dance" at random opportunities
[05:05:55] <servus> First you cast "Remove Hat".
[05:06:29] <wizardrydragon> Just the hat, Servus?
[05:06:49] <servus> Like anyone is going to pay to see men with hats.
[05:07:14] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[05:10:33] <Dalian> I know I want to add stuff like how you could make bloodspawn in SI. Or how in Savage Empire you could make torches by combining a stick and a fuse. Or how Cespenar in Baldur's Gate 2 would improve certain items if you had certain other items.
[05:10:50] <wizardrydragon> Heh
[05:10:58] <Dalian> Cespenar is good servant, oh yes!
[05:11:19] <Dalian> I noticed tfl will allow you to craft weapons, yes?
[05:11:27] <wizardrydragon> I added several item crafting functions to TFL by stealing Alun Bestors code
[05:11:30] <wizardrydragon> >_>
[05:11:31] <wizardrydragon> <_<
[05:11:34] <SB-X> wizardrydragon is doing all of that
[05:11:45] <wizardrydragon> And adding to it
[05:11:49] <SB-X> what is the meaning
[05:11:56] <wizardrydragon> Though the added code being of my creation doesnt work
[05:11:58] <SB-X> oops wrong window
[05:11:59] <wizardrydragon> :)
[05:12:03] <SB-X> i was going to add, "and more" :)
[05:12:11] <wizardrydragon> Currently:
[05:12:51] <wizardrydragon> * churn butter
[05:12:51] <wizardrydragon> * get milk
[05:12:51] <wizardrydragon> * mill flour
[05:12:51] <wizardrydragon> * forge swords
[05:12:51] <wizardrydragon> * bake bread
[05:12:52] <wizardrydragon> * make pasteries
[05:12:54] <wizardrydragon> * churn butter
[05:13:32] <Dalian> I will try and be different :)
[05:13:35] <wizardrydragon> also am going to add
[05:13:35] <wizardrydragon> * forge rings / jewelry
[05:13:35] <wizardrydragon> * melt gold nuggets into bars
[05:13:53] <servus> Can you milk cats?
[05:13:57] <Dalian> O.o
[05:14:00] <wizardrydragon> Also Tinkers can enchant items.
[05:14:39] <wizardrydragon> Servus: yes, just double click a bucket of milk and target a cat when in targetting mode
[05:14:40] <wizardrydragon> :)
[05:14:51] <Dalian> and hope it's declawed
[05:16:20] <servus> The bucket does the work
[05:16:32] <wizardrydragon> Or the platemail
[05:16:38] <servus> It's not like a keg of wine where you drop the bucket in the right position and squeeze the cat, er, keg.
[05:16:45] <Dalian> :D
[05:17:07] <servus> Does that mean all cows in Sosaria are female?
[05:17:10] <wizardrydragon> I'll let you figure out the specifics, Servus.
[05:17:17] <Dalian> hmm...all cows are female
[05:17:26] <Dalian> otherwise they are bulls :)
[05:17:46] <wizardrydragon> Also there is only one breed of Dog in all of Britannia :)
[05:17:47] <servus> The term 'cow' applies to both males and females.
[05:18:03] <wizardrydragon> Servus: And some people :)
[05:18:08] <SB-X> hah
[05:18:08] <servus> Of course, because everyone playing Ultima IX killed the avatar's dog :(
[05:18:18] <wizardrydragon> I didnt!
[05:18:32] <Dalian> that one area in SI is rather disturbing, where the bulls attack you
[05:18:43] <wizardrydragon> I dsont recall that
[05:19:02] <Dalian> all the livestock does actually. The family is slaughtered when you get there
[05:19:11] <wizardrydragon> Oh yeah I remember that
[05:19:22] <wizardrydragon> Always wondered about that
[05:19:39] <wizardrydragon> When I get to SI with TFL I plan to implement a side quest that somewhat explains it.
[05:19:44] <servus> I thought that those were warthogs...
[05:19:48] <wizardrydragon> (I hate loose ends x_x )
[05:19:53] <Dalian> and it's not even explained..you just have to draw your own conclusions
[05:19:59] <servus> There's a diary
[05:20:08] <Dalian> ahh I must have missed it
[05:20:13] <wizardrydragon> It doesnt explain much as far as I recall Servus
[05:20:34] <wizardrydragon> but my memory's not the best :)
[05:20:38] <servus> I like writing other peoples' diaries.
[05:20:46] <servus> I should write a fictional character's weblog.
[05:20:52] <wizardrydragon> lol
[05:20:56] <Dalian> there were some hogs and 2 bulls
[05:20:58] <servus> Virtue knows I can't write about myself.
[05:21:14] <wizardrydragon> Id write about my self but that would be far too boring.
[05:26:26] <Dalian> How'd the Avatar get such a nice house in IX anyway? Was he taking back gold from Britannia? Why wasn't the IRS auditing him?
[05:26:50] <Dalian> "Where'd you get all the money, hmm?"
[05:27:11] <wizardrydragon> If he was bringing back gold from Brit, he could just pay off the IRS :P
[05:27:21] <Dalian> heh
[05:31:20] * servus writes off last year's earnings to a freak teleport storm, and capitalizes a lighthouse.
[05:59:13] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[05:59:20] <wizardrydragon> Well time for bed I thinks
[05:59:22] <wizardrydragon> G'night
[05:59:53] <Dalian> night!
[06:00:30] <SB-X> cya
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[06:25:43] <Dalian> yah! got a horse into SI :D
[06:25:51] <SB-X> Smith?
[06:25:56] <Dalian> naw just a horse
[06:27:17] <Dalian> i hadn't actually tried making a new shape yet, so I'm happy it worked
[06:27:49] <Dalian> at first the horse wouldn't move..then I realized it probably needed a new monsters.dat file O.o
[06:29:50] <Dalian> it's the little things..
[06:31:06] <Dalian> ES seems to work really well with exporting/importing images for shapes. No need to use ipack for that
[06:46:49] <Dalian> hmm solution! duplicate a chunk, then delete a chunk I won't be using. Groups are preserved.
[06:48:04] <Dalian> there are a number of placeholder chunks that aren't used anyway
[07:37:27] <Dalian> Servus: attention please
[07:37:31] <Dalian> :)
[07:41:24] <Dalian> I'm making an eyedropper chart for the SI mapping, and noticed that ophidian stone and fawn stone are both using the same color, according to the text file
[07:46:50] * servus looks
[07:47:19] <servus> So they are
[07:47:31] <Dalian> also, are there really 2 types of swamp?
[07:48:39] <servus> Ooh, bizarre : o)
[07:48:52] <servus> No, looks like some pixel colours got swapped around
[07:53:40] <Dalian> I'm going to try my hand at making a rough map this way, as soon as I get the chart done
[07:55:03] <Dalian> I need to have eyedropper charts for stuff like this. You're welcome to include it in the zip if ya want
[07:56:37] <servus> http://www.sammatthews.com/files/u7mapper.exe http://rafb.net/paste/results/69I0Zk90.html patched version
[08:01:46] <servus> http://sammatthews.com/images/Exult3D/u7mapper-palette.gif
[08:02:54] <servus> Rules to keep in mind: Surround all islands with shallowwater. Surround all grass islands with 1px of sand. Do not skimp on the beach corners (diagonal pixel connections are not OK, do an actual "L-shape" connection between pixels of beach)
[08:03:06] <servus> Surround swamp with grass, only try to use dirt paths in swamps...
[08:13:28] <Dalian> oh now you show me that..hehe. I prefer something like this tho: http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a351/Nixlplix/mapper-colors.jpg
[08:13:38] <servus> I just made it...
[08:14:06] <servus> jpg will probably screw up the colours though
[08:15:10] <Dalian> ah yes. Glad I saved it unflattened
[08:15:46] <servus> Gosh, putting a straw into a cola just makes it disappear. *urp*
[08:20:04] <Dalian> i see what you mean about the l-shape..I'll keep that in mind
[08:20:16] <Dalian> (looking at the example pic)
[08:21:16] <Dalian> the jaggy corners are throwing me off, but I'll just have to see if it makes what I think it's going to make
[08:21:59] <servus> In Photoshop, the easiest way is to magic-wand all the ocean, do select | Expand | 1px, then deselect ocean, shallow water, and mountains with the magic wand (continuous sections disabled)
[08:22:30] <Dalian> ahh..good plan. I do use ps, too
[08:29:26] <Dalian> hmmm..i've not had to deal with this before. Can't get it to not anti-alias, even with a brush size of 1
[08:30:44] <Dalian> nevermind...pencil tool
[08:31:04] <Dalian> I'm being scatterbrained again
[08:31:44] <Dalian> work does that to a person..heh
[09:02:32] <Dalian> hmmm
[09:02:51] <Dalian> I got some rather weird results
[09:06:33] <servus> Moooahahaha! He has fallen for the grand deception, Dupre! Look, Iolo!
[09:07:10] <Dalian> ?
[09:14:15] <Dalian> why is the road w/wall included? It shows up in strange places
[09:25:22] <servus> Because 3072 is a long and boring number of chunks.
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[10:02:50] * servus makes scribbly sounds. Scribble scribble scribble. *Records scribbly sounds and puts them on a loop, to give the illusion of... what? Scribbling!
[10:21:55] <Dalian> Mad Scribbler!
[10:22:24] <Dalian> Someone with that name left a post on my bulletin board in UO..heh
[10:22:43] <Dalian> It was you!
[10:33:15] <servus> Don't you wish you knew what *he* was scribbling.
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[15:48:25] <rofl0r_> hi, is there a way to display the S / E coordinates in exult (like 100S, 35E as described in a walkthrough)
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[16:13:41] <servus> rofl0r_: I think you can probably find a sextant in Trinsic
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[16:27:12] <rofl0r_> ah, can i use the sextant for that ? doh :P
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[17:02:42] <servus> : o)
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[23:53:44] <Dalian> Who knows what today is?
[23:54:09] <wizardrydragon> Almost over, that's what it is.
[23:54:09] <Dalian> *ahem* Who here be knowin what be this day!?
[23:54:19] <servus> Aarrrrrrrmost over.
[23:56:04] <Dalian> tis' only 5 o' clock har. The sun is still up, argh!