#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 1 Apr 2002 (GMT)

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[00:00:13] <wjp> that's one of the few intrinsics I've figured out
[00:00:29] <Dark-Star> yes, found them. I just didn't notice the "i" in the "calli" :)
[00:02:30] <Dark-Star> so a "call 0581:0ef8" means "jump into usecode function 0x581 (called 'FREE' by disasm -l) subroutine 0ef8"?
[00:02:44] <wjp> yes
[00:03:00] <Fingolfin> wjp: hm, do you think we should announce it to the public now that the contract is signed?
[00:03:06] <wjp> (or technically "the subroutine starting at offset 0ef8")
[00:03:21] <wjp> Fingolfin: yes, that might be wise
[00:03:36] <Fingolfin> ok, I'll change the channel topic
[00:03:41] <wjp> excellent
[00:03:53] <Dark-Star> so why is your offset (28f9) so much larger than mine (0ef8)??
[00:04:07] <wjp> they probably shuffled the functions around
[00:04:38] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[00:04:47] <Dark-Star> that'll make usecode editing so much harder :)
[00:06:19] --- Fingolfin has changed the topic to: Important announcement, please visit http://exult.sourceforge.net/announcement.html
[00:10:48] <-- exultbot has left #exult ()
[00:17:29] <Dark-Star> would it make sense to add support for a "function to name"-mapping to the usecode disassembler? with a separate config file for each language?
[00:17:57] <Dark-Star> so that for example "call 0581:0ef8" would be translated to "call get_time_of_day [0581:0ef8]"
[00:18:13] <wjp> yes, it would
[00:18:33] <Dark-Star> mind if I would take a look at this tomorrow? :-)
[00:18:41] <wjp> not at all :-)
[00:19:15] <Dark-Star> the config file should be an XML-file I think...
[00:19:28] * wjp nods
[00:19:36] <wjp> we alreay have the conf/ library to read it, too
[00:19:42] <wjp> s/eay/eady/
[00:20:10] <Dark-Star> hmmm... ok then I only need to get "into the code" :)
[00:20:37] <wjp> woohoo! grass tiles load perfectly now!
[00:20:58] <wjp> (of course, most other shapes are still screwed up)
[00:21:13] <Dark-Star> does globdisp still segfault?
[00:21:22] <wjp> huh?
[00:21:46] <Dark-Star> well, it did segfault here when I tried to start it with the uncompressed shapes file from your decompressor...
[00:22:17] <wjp> oh, that would be a bad idea... decompressor is/was kind of broken
[00:22:31] <wjp> but globdisp doesn't segfault currently
[00:23:05] <Dark-Star> yes I know the decompressor is buggy but it was my only option 2 days ago...
[00:23:35] <Dark-Star> and globdisp didn't work (shapedisp did work but it had these shape errors)
[00:24:08] <wjp> what resolution are you running?
[00:25:39] <Dark-Star> huh? you mean the desktop resolution? or the size of the globdisp window?
[00:25:45] <wjp> desktop
[00:25:53] <wjp> (globdisp window opens at 1200x800, btw)
[00:26:12] <Dark-Star> 1280x960... I think....
[00:26:42] <wjp> could run gdb on globdisp?
[00:27:27] <Dark-Star> ok but I first have to move the old (buggy) shapes file back into place...
[00:27:43] <wjp> oh, it does work with the new one?
[00:27:46] <wjp> never mind in that case
[00:27:49] <Dark-Star> yes...
[00:27:51] <Dark-Star> ok
[00:28:18] <wjp> probably just a couple of specific frames that crash it
[00:28:27] <wjp> (which happen to be in the first glob :-) )
[00:32:39] <wjp> ugh... I'm now looking at the avatar instead of grass tiles...
[00:32:46] <wjp> it seems like the rules are completely different here
[00:33:14] <wjp> hey, wait a sec
[00:33:19] <wjp> the header is different too
[00:35:55] --> DraX has joined #exult
[00:36:17] <DraX> hi
[00:36:23] <DraX> pretty cool anouncement!
[00:36:23] <wjp> hi
[00:36:24] <Dark-Star> so they have encoded shapes and tiles in a different way?
[00:36:29] <Dark-Star> hi
[00:36:53] <DraX> although i'll miss getting everything to work on BSD's :(
[00:36:54] <wjp> there's no difference between shapes and tiles. I just used the words in a slightly loose way
[00:37:45] * Dark-Star is confused about tiles, shapes and globs ...
[00:37:57] <Dark-Star> so a glob consists of several tiles/shapes?
[00:37:57] <wjp> glob = collection of shapes
[00:38:04] <Dark-Star> like a chunk in u7?
[00:38:06] <wjp> tile = english word
[00:38:09] <wjp> shape = u8 image
[00:40:07] <wjp> somewhat like a chunk, yes
[00:40:11] <wjp> (not exactly, though)
[00:40:58] <Fingolfin> DraX: no worries
[00:41:17] <DraX> Fingolfin: do you know EA's thoughts on ports to other platforms?
[00:41:23] <Fingolfin> DraX: one goal is to keep full platform compatibility; while Windows, Linux and Mac OS X are the primary platforms
[00:41:29] <Fingolfin> we will still try to keep up a BSD port
[00:41:35] <DraX> Fingolfin: thank you!
[00:41:53] <Fingolfin> since OS X is essentially a BSD, too, that won't be that hard, but please understand that I am not in a position to make a legal binding statment
[00:42:02] <DraX> Fingolfin: of course not
[00:42:07] <Fingolfin> but I think that in the very least, we can make an "inofficial" BSD version
[00:42:30] * DraX hopes you all the best
[00:43:01] <Dark-Star> wjp: how about this as a format for the configuration file: http://mw24.ods.org/~michael/exult/usecodemap.xml
[00:43:30] <Fingolfin> DraX: thanks
[00:44:06] <wjp> hmm, great, galeon filters out the tags
[00:44:25] <Dark-Star> yeah, konqueror does it too :-(
[00:44:30] <wjp> looks ok
[00:47:02] * wjp fixes another bug...
[00:47:25] <Dark-Star> good :)
[00:47:44] <wjp> I implemented the extra header info in only half of the places where it was used... oops :-)
[00:49:29] * wjp runs it again...
[00:49:38] <wjp> (it takes ages to run with all that debugging output... bah)
[00:49:51] * Fingolfin wonders why people keep using malloc.h, when malloc() is inside stdlib.h for over ten years now, sigh
[00:49:54] <Fingolfin> e.g. in evolution
[00:50:03] <wjp> malloc.h? does that exist?
[00:50:17] <Fingolfin> on linux, yeah
[00:50:22] <DraX> on bsd it gives an error
[00:50:24] <DraX> to use stdlib.h
[00:50:25] <Fingolfin> and on a few other SysV unices
[00:50:26] <wjp> let me guess... not on osx?
[00:50:31] <Fingolfin> just like on OS X, DraX
[00:50:40] <Fingolfin> it contains some low level memory functions
[00:50:41] * wjp 's jaw drops
[00:50:53] <DraX> Fingolfin: the libcs are off the same source tree
[00:50:57] <wjp> it actually seems to work!
[00:51:20] <Fingolfin> so far, in the couple dozen cases I have seen it used, it was *never* for those low level stuff, but always for malloc. In fact in most cases, you can just remove the line w/o any harm =)
[00:51:26] <Dark-Star> omg you got it working?!?!?
[00:52:13] <wjp> hmm, still a few very minor glitches
[00:52:37] <wjp> the letters in eggs are half-missing
[00:52:58] * Dark-Star can't await doing "cvs update" ...
[00:53:49] <-- DraX has left IRC ("[BX] Save water -- drink beer!")
[00:54:06] <wjp> eek, almost 3 am already
[00:54:19] <Fingolfin> aye
[00:55:00] <Dark-Star> yes, but tomorrow you can sleep as long as you want... can't you? <g>
[00:55:06] <Dark-Star> at least I can :-)
[00:55:12] <wjp> yeah
[00:57:21] <Fingolfin> tomorrow? err.... today :-)
[00:57:26] <Fingolfin> nah, I have to get up at 2 PM =)
[01:00:06] --> toad`sMok has joined #exult
[01:01:03] <wjp> hi
[01:01:17] <Dark-Star> hi
[01:01:20] <matto> hi
[01:01:39] <Fingolfin> yo
[01:03:00] <matto> hey fin
[01:08:31] <wjp> oh bah...
[01:08:50] <wjp> looks like they borrow pixels not from the same location in the previous frame, but from the same _run_ in the previous frame
[01:08:53] <wjp> argh
[01:10:15] <Fingolfin> :-)
[01:10:16] <Dark-Star> oh that means you'll have to temporarily store all previous runs somewhere in memory?
[01:10:22] <Fingolfin> wjp: you sure have a fun task chosen for yourself =)
[01:10:48] <wjp> yes, I was storing the previous image... now I need to store the runs...
[01:11:10] <Dark-Star> or you could do all frames in parallel one run at a time
[01:11:34] <wjp> nah, then I'd have to do bookkeeping instead of dumping everything to file while I'm reading it :-)
[01:11:58] <wjp> right now I'm writing u8shapes.flx (mostly linearly) while I'm reading u8shapes.cmp
[01:12:07] <wjp> I only jump back occasionally to update offsets
[01:12:22] <wjp> it's really messy...
[01:12:36] <Dark-Star> yes, but you could build up the frames in memory and then dump them when you're done reading the corresponding data from u8shapes.cmp
[01:12:43] <wjp> it's getting to be so incredibly messy that rewriting is quickly becoming more attractive than modifying...
[01:13:16] <wjp> anyway, I committed the current version
[01:13:23] <wjp> it's mostly working ok
[01:13:34] <wjp> just a few minor misplaced pixels in places
[01:15:34] <wjp> and now I should really go
[01:15:39] <wjp> goodnight
[01:15:39] <Dark-Star> yes, me too...
[01:15:42] <Dark-Star> g'night
[01:15:44] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[01:16:45] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("good night")
[01:17:14] <-- Dark-Star has left IRC ("good night")
[01:17:36] <-- toad`sMok has left IRC ("Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)")
[02:35:06] --> Darke has joined #exult
[02:35:06] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[02:35:11] * Darke bows. Hi!
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[03:51:33] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[03:53:11] <Kirben> cruel joke.
[03:53:49] * Darke noticed. <grin> A very cruel joke.
[06:34:20] --> Nuclear has joined #exult
[06:34:39] <Nuclear> Hi all...
[06:34:55] <Nuclear> cruel joke??? does that mean what I think it does
[06:36:57] <Darke> I don't know. What do you think it means? <grin>
[06:38:23] <Nuclear> I think it means that there's no way EA would fund an Exult online.
[06:38:43] <-- kefka has left IRC ("[x]chat 1.8.8")
[06:40:16] <Nuclear> UO more or less hass the multiplayer section covered
[06:41:36] * Darke can neither confirm, nor deny anything about whether it's true or not. <grin>
[06:44:06] <Nuclear> well, it certainly brings a smile to my face. Either way, the cvs is still open for anonymous login, so won
[06:44:23] <Nuclear> won't worry too much yet...
[06:45:09] --> sb-x has joined #exult
[06:45:17] <Darke> Hi.
[06:45:20] <sb-x> Hi.
[06:48:48] <Nuclear> hullo... and goodbye.. think I asked all I need to for now. later.
[06:48:57] <-- Nuclear has left IRC ("leaving")
[06:49:03] <sb-x> heh
[06:50:10] * sb-x pulls a futuristic-type bottle out of his coat and sets it in front of Darke. He pushes a button on it and it starts spinning around, with lights flashing, saying "Haro! Haro! Haro!" in a Japanese accent.
[06:50:32] * sb-x turns off the contraption and puts it back in his coat pocket.
[06:50:55] * Darke blinkyblinks. "You know, at least _I_ had an excuse to be thinking surrealy last night. What's your's?" <grin>
[06:52:15] <sb-x> Heh, strange dreams :)... speaking of surreal... here is a quote I found that I had to show you...
[06:53:00] * Darke earperks.
[06:53:31] <sb-x> hmm i have to check my browser history :)
[06:55:53] <sb-x> ok here it is, a review of Earthbound by a guy named kefka
[06:56:17] <sb-x> it says how strange the game is, and the last sentence is
[06:56:21] <sb-x> "From attack sprouts to rambling mushrooms, your quest to... do whatever you need to do will always be fish out of ten on the surrealism scale."
[06:56:37] <sb-x> ^_^
[06:57:50] * Darke BLINKyblinks.
[07:01:49] * Darke g00gles and located the review. Umm... ehh... kind of cool.
[07:02:44] <sb-x> Eh... http://members.madasafish.com/~kefka/erthband.htm? You cheated I could have given you the URL. :)
[07:03:01] <sb-x> It is cool, it was/is one of my favorite games.
[07:03:25] <Darke> It was quicker typing 4 words into google, then it is to type a sentence in here asking you and waiting for your responce. <grin>
[07:03:48] <sb-x> "need know url"
[07:03:51] <sb-x> hehe
[07:04:55] <sb-x> i disagree with him
[07:04:58] <Darke> Sorry, I actually have to force myself to write b0rk3n english. <grin> Writing something like that would have taken almost as long as asking "What's the url to that site?
[07:05:14] <sb-x> hmm
[07:05:38] * sb-x images Darke sweating profusely, hands shaking, as he attempts to write the "utterance" in his irc window.
[07:06:43] <Darke> Not really, it's just that I can write the 'correct' sentence without actually thinking, whereas if I need to write a 'broken' sentence it's actually hard work. *grin*
[07:07:14] <sb-x> anyway, i don't disagree with him that it is a good game, i disagree that he doesn't worship it :P
[07:07:32] * Darke snickers.
[07:07:49] <sb-x> it's graphics are a style, they are cute, they look the way they should i think
[07:08:57] <sb-x> You can talk to that blue cow in the second screenshot.
[07:09:03] <sb-x> Ness can talk to many animals even.
[07:10:03] <sb-x> i guess he is correct that the battles can be boring
[07:11:00] * Darke thinks he'd like the game. It looks rather cool.
[07:12:52] <sb-x> Every once in a while a man drops out of the sky to take your photograph.
[07:14:20] <sb-x> Oh, the towns are named in the order you reach them.
[07:14:28] <sb-x> Onett, Twoson, Threed, Fourside. :)
[07:16:05] <sb-x> Maybe someone (points to himself) should make an Earthbound remake with Exult.
[07:16:17] <sb-x> though it would be very different
[07:16:29] <Darke> Umm... ... you know, I think it'd certainly be possible.
[07:18:14] <sb-x> Will EA eventually rerelease Exult Studio on April 1st, 2006 so us fans can make our own games like that?
[07:18:16] * sb-x grins.
[07:19:12] * Darke pokes his tongue out at sb-x.
[07:47:55] --> Nuclear has joined #exult
[07:48:32] <Nuclear> I just need to say, "oh duh, why did I forget to check the date?"
[07:48:37] <Nuclear> later again.
[07:48:44] <-- Nuclear has left IRC (Client Quit)
[07:48:46] * Darke grins. Bye.
[07:54:31] <sb-x> :O
[07:57:55] * Darke grins as the announcement hits r.g.c.u.series.
[07:58:43] <sb-x> aah
[07:58:47] * sb-x goes to look.
[08:01:36] * Darke is tempted to write a responce.
[08:02:35] <sb-x> EA couldn't stop GPL source from being distributed anyway. People seem to not notice that.
[08:03:58] * Darke grins. That's the 'obvious' give away that it might not be true. IIRC we could, however, relicense it under any license we wish, provided we got permission from everyone who's worked on it.
[08:07:38] --> kefka has joined #exult
[08:08:06] <Darke> Hi.
[08:09:24] <sb-x> hi
[08:10:07] <sb-x> in ff6 in japan kefka was called cefca
[08:20:18] <sb-x> Darke: Here is one of the things people say in Earthbound: 'Ok, pop quiz! "A Beatles song, XXXterday." Can you fill in the blanks?'
[08:20:46] <sb-x> And of course, you can choose '
[08:20:52] <sb-x> Yes' or 'No'
[08:20:55] * Darke grins 'Yes'.
[08:20:56] <sb-x> :-)
[08:21:21] * Darke thinks that's rather neat.
[08:21:30] <sb-x> if you say Yes the person says "That's correct! I'm impressed!"
[08:22:07] <sb-x> if you say No the person says "Bzzt. A Beatles song, Noterday. Wrong!"
[08:22:12] <sb-x> me too
[08:22:24] <sb-x> theres lots of quirky things in there like that
[08:54:31] * sb-x ponders the continous posting to the *looks around* thread on the forum. "Are people reading the thread before they post? :)"
[08:55:49] <Darke> Dunno. Perhaps, but no-one has actually said whether it's true or false... <grin>
[08:57:25] <sb-x> Oh yeah. Why should anyone think it is false? :)
[09:00:13] <Darke> No idea. It's _obvious_ it's true.
[09:01:30] --- Darke is now known as Darke|afk
[09:16:02] --- Darke|afk is now known as Darke
[09:16:14] <sb-x> Are you thinking what I'm thinking, Pinky?
[09:16:46] <Darke> "Sure Brian, but where are we going to get two pairs of lederhosen at this time of night?"
[09:17:01] <sb-x> hehe Brian?
[09:18:24] <sb-x> i havnt watched that show in a long time btw
[09:18:29] * Darke considers there are two options there. Either it was a typo, or he refuses to call you 'brain'. <grin>
[09:18:55] <Darke> Me neither. Which is a pity, it's a wonderful show. <grin>
[09:22:42] * sb-x thinks about singing the nations of the world song by Yakko, but thinks twice and decides not to.
[09:23:26] * Darke paws sb-x the mp3 instead.
[09:27:44] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[09:27:59] <Darke> Hi.
[09:28:09] <sb-x> Hi.
[09:28:29] <Fingolfin> yo
[09:28:37] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[09:29:17] <sb-x> Darke: i don't think i could handle it :)
[09:36:08] <Fingolfin> ?logs
[09:36:08] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[10:27:13] --> Dark-Star has joined #exult
[10:27:18] <Dark-Star> Hi
[10:27:22] <Darke> Hi.
[10:28:12] <Dark-Star> anyone happen to know how to include the "conf" library into an exult-tool?
[10:28:34] <Dark-Star> I keep getting invalid references to c_empty_string
[10:29:15] <sb-x> hi
[10:30:43] <Dark-Star> never mind, I just found out...
[10:31:19] <Dark-Star> bye
[10:31:24] <Darke> (For the archives) You need to create a global std::string c_empty_string;
[10:31:27] <Darke> Bye.
[10:31:47] <Dark-Star> yes, I forgot to include common_types.h
[10:32:08] <-- Dark-Star has left IRC ("hacking away...")
[10:34:45] <sb-x> eh
[10:34:54] <sb-x> are my opera cookies screwed up?
[10:34:58] <sb-x> all the forum topics say new now
[10:35:33] <Darke> It's not happening for me (Konqueror) so perhaps.
[10:52:11] <Fingolfin> http://www.google.com/technology/pigeonrank.html
[10:55:43] * Darke blinkyblinks.
[10:58:19] <sb-x> Interesting to note that Pigeon Cluster Efficiency stagnates at 8 or 9 pigeons/cluster.
[10:58:45] <Fingolfin> hm
[10:58:48] <Fingolfin> indeed
[10:59:11] <Darke> Which is better then human programming clusters. They stagnate at 4-5 people per cluster.
[10:59:26] <Darke> At least for 'proper' programming teams anyway. <grin>
[11:02:21] <sb-x> Q. "Aren't pigeons really stupid? How do they do this?"
[11:02:29] <sb-x> :-)
[11:02:38] * Darke snickers.
[11:03:17] <Fingolfin> =)
[11:04:17] * Darke happens to like the creative euphamism 'White Pixel Production'. <grin>
[11:13:34] * matto yawns
[11:14:00] * Darke shoves a bottle of 'hello' in between matto's open jaws.
[11:14:30] <matto> darke! hi!
[11:15:00] <matto> I know a guy who stagnates beyond a 1 person cluster (ie he can't work well with anyone) hehe
[11:15:41] <Darke> Yeah. I've seen those types too. <sigh> They are _not_ fun to work with, especially not in a four person cluster. <grin>
[11:15:57] <matto> yesterday I went in for a job interview
[11:16:02] <sb-x> hi matto
[11:16:05] <matto> and the guy who was interviewing me ...
[11:16:11] <matto> I've decided he fits into that 1-person category :)
[11:16:16] <matto> sb-x: greetings!
[11:16:48] <sb-x> why would he be hiring?
[11:17:14] <matto> he had me write some sample PHP code for him (it was for a PHP programming position) and after I left he emailed me, pointed out 3 things he didn't like in my code and said I was out of the running
[11:17:47] <matto> so I decided to try again, so I rewrote my code according to his complaints, and sent it back to him and asked him to re-evaluate it
[11:17:59] <matto> and he wrote back and said that my programming style is too much like C
[11:18:10] <sb-x> :O
[11:18:22] <matto> he said "Matt, you should study PHP and MySQL for a bit. You use the language
[11:18:22] <matto> like its C... its not C; its PHP. PHP and MySQL have possibly
[11:18:22] <matto> thousands of features not found in C...
[11:18:22] <matto> "
[11:18:40] <matto> at this point... I came to several conclusions
[11:18:47] <matto> 1 - he does not know much (or anything) about C
[11:18:56] <matto> 2 - he has not worked with anyone in a programming group before
[11:19:15] <matto> 3 - he has little (or no) experience interviewing/hiring people
[11:19:33] * Darke blinkblinks and thinks all 3 are correct.
[11:20:03] <Fingolfin> but he has one good point. he didn't hire you, so he must be clever. I mean, come on, who would hire you, you are completly clueless, you wouldn't even know how to reverse engineer, say, a laser dics system =)
[11:20:03] <matto> needless to say, I am no longer going to pursue this job hehe
[11:20:40] <matto> Fingolfin: *chuckle* well I made sure to point that out on my resume.. so he was well aware of that. I offered to show him some more sample code but he assured me that my PHP code I had written for him was sufficient.
[11:20:52] * Darke snickers.
[11:20:55] <Fingolfin> lol
[11:21:22] <Darke> matto: Add `4 - He's clueless` to the list.
[11:21:58] <matto> Darke: hehe... well ... I'm sure he will be clued in as time progresses
[11:22:12] <Darke> matto: Don't bet on it. <sigh>
[11:22:20] <matto> well guys I appreciate the support :)
[11:22:38] <matto> it's kind of hard to have someone tell me that my code sucks when I sincerely believe my code is better than theirs ...
[11:22:59] * sb-x writes everything like C. :(
[11:23:07] <Fingolfin> hehehehe
[11:23:29] <Fingolfin> matto: I haven't had that experience yet, but I sure have seens quite some*BAAD* code in my job =)
[11:23:36] <Darke> matto: <grin> Then don't believe it then. <shrug> Use it as a benchmark as to whether someone knows 'their stuff' worse then you do. <grin>
[11:24:02] <Fingolfin> e.g. by some full time collegues - I am only working part time for that company, (and earn not that much, much less than those so-called experts who write really shoddy code =)
[11:24:25] <matto> Fingolfin: I'd be willing to bet that your code is generally good
[11:24:30] <matto> considering all the projects you're involved in
[11:25:08] <matto> sb-x: yeah! what's wrong with writing code like C, dangit!
[11:26:15] <matto> BTW, if anyone cares (and I don't blame you if you don't haha), I put my code vs his code online at http://www.rulecity.com/~matt/code.zip to show a friend of mine hehe
[11:26:33] <matto> my friend graciously assured me that he liked my code better hehe
[11:27:13] * Darke grins.
[11:27:22] <Fingolfin> matto: I am biased, of course, but I think so, too. I.e. I am certainly not the best programmer in the world, but I think I write pretty clean code in general ... the more I was shocked when i first saw the code we sometimes use at work <shudder>. It's not even the memory leaks (before I started working on the app, we were at 250 MB ram after 10 minutes. Now it's maybe 10 <g>). It's really the baaaad code design some ppl write.
[11:27:45] <Fingolfin> i.e. like naming a function "selectedRow" which returns a boolean that tells us whether to use color managment or not =)
[11:27:59] * Darke BLINKs.
[11:28:24] * Fingolfin reads thru the code
[11:29:42] <Fingolfin> uhmmmm
[11:30:20] <Fingolfin> matto: if your code is too much C, then I think all PHP programmers writing stuff like rube.php should be forced to learn C =)
[11:30:28] * matto grins
[11:31:20] <Fingolfin> so... what exactly is to C-ish about your code? I come from C, so I am maybe fixed in my thinking...
[11:31:39] <matto> I don't think he liked my 'for' loop
[11:31:44] <matto> he had some other PHP'ish way of doing it ...
[11:31:50] <matto> but I am not entirely sure
[11:31:50] <Fingolfin> eeek! a *for* loop! evil
[11:32:03] <Fingolfin> use while loops!
[11:32:12] <Fingolfin> you can express any for loop as a while loop! never use for! it's too cish
[11:32:23] <matto> heh
[11:32:26] <Fingolfin> I will remeber that if I ever get interviewed on PHP... not
[11:38:08] <matto> Fingolfin: another reason I suspect that you write good code is that you are involved with exult, a multi-platform project. I believe that people who are conscious about writing multi-platform code are on average better coders than people who write for just one platform (ie windows)
[11:39:14] <matto> which is why I try to make sure that any code I write compiles on at least windows and linux :)
[11:39:17] <Fingolfin> could well be... at least it opens one's eyes about some assumption that one makes =)
[11:39:20] <Fingolfin> yup
[11:40:25] <matto> no mac port of daphne yet ... some guy wants to do it but he doesn't know how.. maybe he will want it badly enough to teach himself :)
[11:41:23] * Darke has heard it said, that people who write open source code, code others _will_ see, tend to write better code then people who write code for proprietary apps. He suspects partially beacuse you want to see the 'best' you can do, not average code, and patially because you're doing it for the 'love' of it, and so you want to do it the best you can, so the practices translate into the code you do
[11:41:25] <Darke> for pay.
[11:41:58] <matto> Darke: I agree
[11:44:07] <Fingolfin> I think this is often true; but I have also seen very *bad* open source code
[11:44:21] <Fingolfin> but the closed source code I have seen is usually quite ugly/bad, too
[11:44:27] <Fingolfin> :-)
[11:44:38] <matto> I haven't seen much closed source
[11:44:46] <matto> except for the id software stuff which they release later
[11:44:57] * matto has spent a good deal of time tinkering with quake2
[11:45:19] --> wjp has joined #exult
[11:45:19] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[11:45:23] <Darke> Fingolfin: Oh agreed. <grin> It's not 'the' rule, I've certainly seen lots of badly written OS code. But in general, it seems better then what I see when I look at the closed code.
[11:45:23] <wjp> hi
[11:45:25] <Darke> Hi.
[11:45:30] <matto> I generally approve of John Carmack's coding style and generally disapprove of Zoid's.. hehehe
[11:45:32] <matto> wjp!
[11:45:42] <Fingolfin> hi willem
[11:45:52] <Fingolfin> Carmack -> that quy who wrote Quake?
[11:45:59] <matto> Fingolfin: yeah.. the main programmer
[11:46:08] * Fingolfin ported twilight, which ported the quake engine to SDL, to OS X...
[11:46:13] <sb-x> hi wjp
[11:46:14] <Fingolfin> one of the major problems was a stack smasher
[11:46:25] <matto> generally known as a guy who can write very fast code
[11:46:30] <Fingolfin> well, turned out that 2 MB local vars aren't that good =)
[11:46:33] <Fingolfin> i.e. on the stack =)
[11:46:49] <matto> 2 meg local variable? odd
[11:46:57] <matto> how big is the stack anyway?
[11:47:10] * Darke snickers. A 2Meg local is not really all that good.
[11:47:29] <matto> I know on the old z80 (hehe) the stack size could be adjustable but it was generally quite small :)
[11:47:39] <matto> I guess on x86, the stack pointer can be adjusted, so there is no set stack size
[11:47:43] <matto> same with sparc
[11:47:52] <matto> I have no idea about the mac architecture though
[11:48:59] <matto> by the way, is there anywhere in exult that does a lot of integer math ?
[11:49:12] <wjp> scalers
[11:49:14] <sb-x> scalers
[11:49:29] <matto> no floating point?
[11:49:45] <matto> has anyone tried using MMX to speed that up?
[11:49:54] <matto> err to speed _those_ up
[11:49:58] <matto> (the scalers)
[11:50:51] <sb-x> <Nadir> I would like to try integrating Derek's MMX version of 2xSaI in Exult
[11:51:00] <matto> oh cool
[11:51:30] <Darke> IIRC it's a 'post 1.0' thing.
[11:51:55] <matto> I recently wrote my first MMX function ... to convert RGB to YUV
[11:52:08] <matto> I found it to be very hard to debug
[11:52:11] <matto> or rather very inconvenient
[11:52:21] <matto> and measuring speed performance was also hard
[11:52:25] <Darke> But if wjp ever gets around to setting up an 'experimental' exult branch, then I'm sure you could give it a try.
[11:52:29] <matto> I eventually got this profiler from AMD that measured clock cycles ... hehe
[11:53:07] <matto> well now that I know how to write functions in assembly (using GAS and MASM) I certainly would be a lot more equipped to tackle something like that than I used to be
[11:53:22] <sb-x> do you do inline assembly also?
[11:53:30] <matto> yes I started with inline
[11:53:53] <matto> and then "progressed" to the fully separate assembly source file hehe
[11:54:04] <matto> of course inline does not require MASM which is nice
[11:54:11] <matto> well I guess exult compiles with ming anyway
[11:54:27] * Darke started with 'pure' asm, then worked with a C source file calling an asm source file, then inline asm.
[11:55:04] <matto> Darke: the reason I went from inline to separate file was because I was having a devil of a time telling VC++ to make my variables aligned at 8 byte boundaries
[11:55:14] <matto> but I was able to do it with the separate .asm file
[11:55:22] <sb-x> heh, I think first thing i worked with was debug.exe in msdos
[11:55:27] <matto> if I could get the 8-byte boundary alignment thing figured out, then inline would work fine
[11:55:29] <Darke> matto: Cool.
[11:56:21] <matto> because as I understand it, MMX is optimized for 8-byte aligned data
[11:56:49] <matto> I also played around a little with 3dnow and didn't get very far
[11:57:46] * sb-x only has a K6 (without 3dnow).
[11:59:17] <matto> I didn't know they made k6's without 3dnow.. shows what I know
[11:59:46] <sb-x> no, i don't know anything about it really, maybe it does
[11:59:56] <matto> my readings about 3dnow suggested to me that 3dnow is designed to do fast floating point operations ...
[11:59:58] <sb-x> all I know is that 3D Now apps i tried didnt work
[12:00:18] <sb-x> (special quake2+3dnow from amd)
[12:00:37] <Darke> sb-x: I tried that one too on my K6-333 back when I had it. It wouldn't work for me either.
[12:00:52] <matto> speaking of that quake2+3dnow, it doesn't seem to help at all on an Athlon.. which suggests that 3dnow itself probably doesn't help on an Athlon... or maybe I am assuming too much there
[12:01:04] <sb-x> oh also here is what mplayer tells me: CPUflags: Type: 5 MMX: 1 MMX2: 0 3DNow: 0 3DNow2: 0 SSE: 0 SSE2: 0
[12:01:51] <matto> you can also cat /proc/cpuinfo
[12:02:14] <matto> looks like I have mmx, mmxext, 3dnow, and 3dnowext among other things
[12:02:20] <sb-x> hmm... i dont understand those flags :)
[12:02:25] <sb-x> fpu vme de pse tsc msr mce cx8 mmx
[12:02:26] <matto> neither do I hehe
[12:02:34] <matto> fpu vme de pse tsc msr pae mce cx8 apic sep mtrr pge mca cmov pat pse36 mmx fxsr syscall mmxext 3dnowext 3dnow
[12:02:48] <matto> model name : AMD Athlon(tm) Processor
[12:02:48] <matto> stepping : 4
[12:02:48] <matto> cpu MHz : 1404.251
[12:02:48] <Fingolfin> matto: stack size: yeah, I can change that on PPC too, but for some unknown reasons, Darwin/OSX has a default stack limit of 512K. That trips a lot of things, and is bad. But still, 2 MB local vars is bad (it was for a screen back buffer, btw =)
[12:03:17] <matto> Fingolfin: don't worry, I would never use a 2 meg local variable :)
[12:03:48] <matto> fdiv_bug : no
[12:03:48] <matto> hlt_bug : no
[12:03:48] <matto> f00f_bug : no
[12:03:48] <matto> coma_bug : no
[12:03:54] <matto> hey good news.. none of these bugs ! hehe
[12:03:58] <matto> I wonder what cpu's do have them
[12:04:07] <sb-x> intel?
[12:04:10] <matto> haha my P166 has it!
[12:04:14] <matto> f00f_bug : yes
[12:04:20] <matto> the horrible f00f bug!!! aahh run away! hehe
[12:04:24] <sb-x> whats your bogomips?
[12:04:44] <matto> bogomips : 2798.38
[12:04:44] <matto> <-- Athlon 1.4 ghz
[12:04:50] <matto> bogomips : 333.41
[12:04:51] <matto> <-- P166
[12:05:01] <wjp> 3080 for my athlonXP1800
[12:05:18] <matto> wjp: I hope you don't have the "f00f" bug
[12:05:27] <wjp> no, but my P200 does :-)
[12:05:31] <matto> hwehehehe
[12:20:23] --> Dark-Star has joined #exult
[12:20:26] <Dark-Star> Hi
[12:20:53] <sb-x> Hi
[12:20:56] <Dark-Star> any STL-gurus in here? :)
[12:21:36] <Darke> Umm... no. But I'm sure at least one of us might be able to help. <grin>
[12:21:51] <Dark-Star> well, I need to convert an int to a std::string
[12:22:22] <Dark-Star> (or append an int to a string)
[12:22:31] <Darke> You need `stringstream` in <sstream> or the depreciated (for good reason) `strstream` in <strstream> (IIRC).
[12:22:51] <Darke> They work just like the standard iostreams.
[12:22:52] <matto> sprintf(s, "%d", yourint); string blah = s; <-- hehehe
[12:22:56] <Dark-Star> there's no easier way? something like "std::tostring(int)" or something?
[12:23:02] --> Colourless has joined #Exult
[12:23:09] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Colourless
[12:23:13] <Colourless> hi all
[12:23:15] <sb-x> hi
[12:23:17] <matto> Colourless!
[12:23:18] <Dark-Star> hi
[12:23:20] <Darke> Dark-Star: No.
[12:23:23] <Darke> Hi.
[12:23:47] <wjp> hi
[12:23:53] <Colourless> :-) is all colourless can say
[12:23:55] * matto uses sprintf entirely too much
[12:24:14] <Darke> Dark-Star: Or at the very least, if there is, I'd very, very much like to know of it. <grin>
[12:24:15] <matto> snprintf is safer but not available in VC++ as far as I know
[12:24:25] <Colourless> yeah it is
[12:24:29] <Colourless> _snprintf
[12:24:31] <matto> ah ha
[12:24:35] <matto> thx...
[12:24:38] <matto> that will help me out
[12:25:09] <matto> in fact, I might do soemthing drastic and repalce all instances of sprintf in my code to snprintf now ... could take a while
[12:26:16] <sb-x> use a macro?
[12:26:31] <matto> hmmmmmmmm
[12:26:44] <matto> you know... that just might work!!
[12:26:54] <sb-x> heh ... im not sure if that is good practice tho :)
[12:26:57] <matto> well except ...
[12:27:09] <matto> how would I deal with the variable number of arguments that sprintf can accept?
[12:27:36] <Colourless> you can't
[12:28:03] <matto> the macro I envisioned was something like #define SPRINTF(str, contents) snprintf(str, sizeof(str), contents);
[12:28:08] <matto> which wouldn't allow for the variable # of arguments
[12:28:33] <sb-x> :(
[12:28:44] <Darke> An inline function maybe?
[12:28:46] <Colourless> you know that sizeof(str) only works for initialized strings, that are as long as the string can be
[12:28:47] <matto> well maybe not a macro, but a find/replace might be able to add in that sizeof argument with minimal work on my part
[12:29:02] <Colourless> err... only works for arrays i mean
[12:29:10] <matto> char arrays?
[12:29:21] <Colourless> it wont work with pointers
[12:29:24] <matto> I only use char arrays for strings
[12:29:27] <sb-x> sizeof(str_pointer) is just sizeof(char)?
[12:29:41] <matto> and yes, I realize it won't work with ptrs .. should be ok since I don't think I use sprintf with pointers anyway
[12:30:07] <matto> sb-x: no... I almost always use something like "char s[81]; sprintf(s, "whatever");" so sizeof(s) would return 81 in those instances
[12:30:33] <Dark-Star> anyone know an online reference manual for STL?
[12:31:00] <matto> Colourless: I don't think sizeof cares if the string is initialized or not ...
[12:31:23] <Colourless> just note that when an array is passed as a function arg it acts like a pointer, not an array
[12:31:29] <matto> since it's computed at compile time :)
[12:31:44] <Colourless> matto: yeah... i was thinking you wrote strlen :-)
[12:31:47] <matto> hehe
[12:31:48] <Darke> Dark-Star: This is the one I occasionally reference: http://www.dinkumware.com/htm_cpl/index.html
[12:31:55] <matto> yeah I'll take note of that re: pointers
[12:32:14] <matto> in a school project we recently stumbled across that problem (using sizeof on a ptr) so hopefully I'll be extra sensitive to it hehe
[12:32:52] <Colourless> heh :-)
[12:33:12] <Dark-Star> Darke: thanks
[12:33:20] <Darke> Dark-Star: It's very dry reading though. I usually reference my copy of 'The C++ Standard Libaray' by Josuttis.
[12:33:50] * Dark-Star doesn't have a book on STL yet...
[12:34:14] * Dark-Star mainly uses the MSDN Library but not under Linux :-(
[12:34:23] * sb-x realizes he doesn't have any C++ info documents installed.
[12:39:14] * matto realizes that he rather likes inheritance in C++
[12:43:30] <Dark-Star> I have to leave ... bye
[12:43:34] <wjp> bye
[12:43:35] <Darke> Bye.
[12:43:37] <Colourless> bye
[12:43:42] <-- Dark-Star has left IRC ("Client Exiting")
[12:54:09] <sb-x> So who is going to take the first step in developing a "mini-Exult" for Atari ST?
[12:56:06] <Colourless> uh, no one :-)
[12:57:38] <Fingolfin> sb-x: why, didn't you read my comment on that thread?
[12:58:00] <Fingolfin> Darke: Josuttis' is an excellent book
[12:58:25] <sb-x> i did, i ignored it and decided to ask here as well :)
[12:58:27] <Darke> sb-x: Anyone that masochistic should port it to the Dreamcast first, and minimise our memory useage for that, then port it to the ST. <grin>
[12:58:51] <Darke> Fingolfin: Agreed. <grin> I fell in love with the copy in my UNI library and decided I needed one.
[12:59:19] <Fingolfin> somebody recommended it to me, and I got one "blind", but I never ever regretted it
[12:59:54] <Fingolfin> sb-x: err, the point is: go ahead and port it. Don't expect any of us to do it, nobody of us owns an Atari ST
[13:00:04] <sb-x> neither do i
[13:00:25] <sb-x> i've never even used one, or even an emulated one, or even seen one
[13:05:21] * Darke blinkblinks at the WALLOP, and wonders how lilo defines a 'baby netsplit'.
[13:06:05] <Colourless> hmmm
[13:07:39] <Fingolfin> only babys will be netsplitted?
[13:08:56] <Colourless> i guess that will effect no one then.... a first for openprojects i think :-)
[13:10:22] * Darke snickers.
[13:59:56] * Darke is amused. He somehow managed to completely avoid getting mentioned in that GameSpy Daily interview. <grin>
[14:00:57] <sb-x> Is it posted?
[14:01:16] <Darke> A few days ago: http://www.gamespydaily.com/news/fullstory.asp?id=3202
[14:02:24] <sb-x> thanks
[14:02:53] <Colourless> well darke, you had ample opportunity to add yourself :-)
[14:03:49] <wjp> a "Code improvement project"??
[14:04:37] <Darke> wjp: No idea.
[14:06:02] <Darke> Colourless: Indeed I did, but it, strangely enough, amuses me. <grin> Like how I was completely absent from the 'About Us' page for quite some time. Yes, I'm a loony.
[14:06:37] <Colourless> :-)
[14:07:01] <Colourless> well, it's just our way of saying, we don't consider you part of the team ;-)
[14:07:43] <Fingolfin> hm, nice: http://freshmeat.net/ :-)
[14:09:13] <Fingolfin> lol
[14:09:26] * Darke rofls.
[14:09:31] <Fingolfin> "When we typed "C#" into Google, however, the first site that showed up in the search results was called "msdn". It was very reassuring to find positive information on a site with a name so similar to our parent company's name, and we took it as a good omen."
[14:10:48] <Colourless> i like the slashdot link <evilgrin>
[14:11:05] <wjp> hehe :-)
[14:11:21] <sb-x> am i supposed to click something here?
[14:11:30] <Fingolfin> eek
[14:11:37] <Fingolfin> quite... offensive =)
[14:11:46] <Colourless> hehe
[14:12:15] <sb-x> im gonna assume i should click the top news link
[14:12:31] <Darke> Fingolfin: Umm... yeah. It's goatse.cx. You've not been there before I take it? <grin>
[14:12:42] <Darke> sb-x: Yep.
[14:13:25] <sb-x> this site is barely responding to me
[14:14:04] * Colourless can not possibly imagine that Fingolfin hasn't been to goatse.cx before
[14:14:33] <Fingolfin> I have that as my "homepage" set in IE so that it greets me whenever I open IE
[14:14:40] <sb-x> ...
[14:14:42] <Fingolfin> kind of a good way to get me to use Mozilla =)
[14:15:02] * Darke tends to avoid the place. It's a good link to send to people to... umm... startle them though. <grin>
[14:15:02] <Fingolfin> but nah I haven't been there before, and I admit I don't regret it that much =)
[14:16:04] <sb-x> heh
[14:16:11] <sb-x> this news is pretty funny
[14:16:17] <sb-x> it looks like every sentence is a joke :P
[14:16:24] <sb-x> as in, completely false
[14:16:31] <Darke> http://www.thinkgeek.com <blinkblink>
[14:16:41] <Fingolfin> A Mac-only link: http://www.stepwise.com/Articles/Editorial/2002-04-01.01.html
[14:16:51] <Fingolfin> though you might enjoy some of the puns even if you don't know Mac OS X=)
[14:17:33] <Fingolfin> what I like about http://www.heise.de/newsticker (Germany, don't bother :-) is that there are about three articles that might be jokes, but you can't be really sure which is it =)
[14:17:34] * Darke grins.
[14:17:43] <wjp> thinkgeek: hehe, they're "selling" Duke Nukem Forever :-)
[14:17:58] <Fingolfin> they even provide links to older articles in all of them, but one of those looks suspiciously faked to me =)
[14:19:47] <sb-x> Aaah... I wish thinkgeek really did have some Galaga stuff.
[14:19:54] <Colourless> fairly amusing for someone who doesn't use a mac
[14:19:59] <Darke> (DNF) Last time I checked that was the 'poster child' game for `It'll be ready, when it's ready` gone insane. <grin>
[14:20:04] <sb-x> I'm not sure why i wish for that.
[14:20:35] * Darke is also greatly amused at the OSX page.
[14:21:04] <Colourless> it's WHEN IT'S DONE, not when it it's ready !
[14:21:25] <sb-x> RunSlowly No
[14:22:20] <sb-x> microsoft.Office SendPersonalInformationToMothership No
[14:24:27] <Darke> DNF is available for Plan 9. I _like_ that! <grin>
[14:25:37] <Fingolfin> :-)
[14:27:02] <sb-x> now i must go look at WheatoniX OS
[14:27:25] <Fingolfin> it's great, I want it =)
[14:27:55] <Colourless> hmm, sounds fascinating jim
[14:28:07] <wjp> fun directory name :-)
[14:28:11] <wjp> (http://www.thinkgeek.com/stuff/looflirpa/wil.shtml)
[14:29:14] <sb-x> heh it took me a second to notice that
[14:29:28] <sb-x> (at least 10 seconds actually)
[14:29:53] <Colourless> what WheatoniX isn't real.... Nooooo!
[14:30:03] * Darke would guess about 12 seconds for him. <grin>
[14:30:15] <sb-x> "WheatoniX Has Everything A Techie Obviously Needs Including letter X"
[14:31:32] <sb-x> "Customize any aspect of the filesystem in minutes using DigdugŪ"
[14:31:46] <Colourless> now that's a filesystem
[14:34:44] * Darke wonders if there is actually a 'database' style file system. That would be rather cool.
[14:35:55] <Colourless> if there isn't, why not make one?
[14:37:31] * sb-x can't access Wil Wheaton's website. :(
[14:37:50] <sb-x> He could tell you how he did it.
[14:37:56] <sb-x> hehe
[14:40:02] <sb-x> hmm
[14:40:09] <sb-x> The "Desktop Zero-Point Infinite Power Generator" is not available in 220V.
[14:41:53] <Darke> Colourless: Because I won't have a clue, even as to where to start in designing a file system, let along coding for it? <grin>
[14:42:30] <sb-x> Darke: just modify conf/ a little, theres your database fs :)
[14:42:57] * Darke is reading through all the comments on the freshmeat article. They're rather amusing. <grin>
[14:43:27] <Darke> sb-x: Umm... no. <grin>
[14:44:11] <Darke> A quote: "I know I'm speaking for 100% of the people who know what the date is today when I say "haha boy do you look stupid.""
[14:44:37] <Darke> The responce to someone who ranted as to how it was so horrible this thing was happening, of course. <grin>
[14:47:27] <sb-x> This reminds me, something I was going to ask people here. Does anyone think it is possible for a corporation to save money by switching away from Linux based and OSS products to Microsoft products?
[14:48:52] <Darke> From what I've seen at uni. Nope.
[14:49:59] <sb-x> They actually switched?
[14:51:44] <Darke> They were just finishing switching (over about a 5 or 6 year period) from unix systems to PCs running windows, when I started my degree about 5 years ago. There was complaints everywhere, especially from people on the IT staff in there about how much everything is costing now.
[14:52:12] <Darke> Of course, these were actually going from Sun hardware/software to PCs with Windows...
[14:52:45] <Darke> Especially in terms of staff, the number of 'low skilled' staff doubled.
[14:53:22] <sb-x> But the new staff get paid less right? :)
[14:54:04] <Darke> Currently they're migrating the entire set of labs (500+ PCs, IIRC) back onto duel booting linux/windows machines. All of which are using rambo (IIRC) to automatically mirror and upgrade them from a central server.
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[14:54:28] <royalsexy> whats this about EA?
[14:54:35] * royalsexy looks shocked
[14:54:36] <Colourless> what does it look like?
[14:54:36] <Fingolfin> re database FS: BeFS
[14:55:06] <Darke> sb-x: Nope. I said they _doubled_ the low skilled/low paid staff. Not that any of the high skilled/high paid (relatively, it's a uni remember) staff left. <grin>
[14:55:14] <Fingolfin> Darke: in fact, /. run an article on it a couple days ago
[14:55:16] <sb-x> hmm :)
[14:55:48] <sb-x> i asked cause i read an article by microsoft at microsoft's website saying people could save money... of course i had a hard time believing it :P
[14:55:52] <Darke> Fingolfin: Thanks. I'll go hunting.
[14:56:15] <Fingolfin> pretty cool thing in fact
[14:56:25] <sb-x> hi royalsexy
[14:56:38] <royalsexy> ack is EA going to screw exult up too? :(
[14:56:41] <royalsexy> heya sb-x
[14:56:47] <Fingolfin> no, not screw
[14:56:49] <sb-x> EA rox
[14:56:51] <Fingolfin> I think it's a very good thing
[14:56:53] <royalsexy> i hope not
[14:56:58] <royalsexy> it means money
[14:57:00] <Fingolfin> we will be able to deliever much better results
[14:57:06] <royalsexy> but ea really aren't my fav company
[14:57:12] <Fingolfin> yeah, that too :-) we can now work on this full time (at least those of use they hired)
[14:57:13] <royalsexy> did you see U9?
[14:57:28] <Colourless> i used to be like that, but they are my favourite now!
[14:57:32] <royalsexy> heheh
[14:57:32] <Fingolfin> true; but we are having a good plot already
[14:57:39] <royalsexy> true
[14:57:46] <Colourless> and remember we are the programmers
[14:57:51] * royalsexy nods
[14:58:16] <royalsexy> damn i'm glad i downloaded the latest source yesterday :P
[14:58:24] <Fingolfin> Darke: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=02/03/30/1445257&mode=thread
[14:58:33] <sb-x> and making it closed source means only the high quality, professional work will go into the code!
[14:58:43] <royalsexy> heheh
[14:58:51] <royalsexy> unlike what you guys have been doing? :P
[14:58:58] <Fingolfin> hehhe
[14:59:06] <Fingolfin> nah, we had a pretty good project managment already
[14:59:10] <Fingolfin> i.e. source managment
[14:59:16] <Fingolfin> not too much will change
[14:59:33] <Fingolfin> i.e. we didn't get that many outside help with exult anyway; with EA, we get some Artists assigned!
[14:59:39] <Colourless> nope, not much will change at all
[14:59:40] <Fingolfin> so we can implement some of the missing things etc.
[14:59:58] <Fingolfin> like, we will fix some of the plot holes (e.g. regarding Cantra in SI)
[15:00:03] <Darke> sb-x: Here's a general 'cost comparison' story of WIndows/Intel vs. Linux/IBM: http://consultingtimes.com/Serverheist.html
[15:02:28] <sb-x> Hmm I remember that advertisement
[15:02:30] <sb-x> on television
[15:02:36] <sb-x> "What's a server?" :)
[15:05:46] * Darke never saw the ad in .au. But it is exceptionally well thought out. <grin>
[15:14:27] <sb-x> what does royalsexy mean?
[15:16:15] <sb-x> By that I meant, what does the name "royalsexy" mean?
[15:16:41] <Darke> He's royal? And sexy?
[15:17:19] <sb-x> That is how I imagined it.
[15:17:43] <sb-x> Whenever royalsexy comes in here I imagine Lord British singing "I'm too sexy for Britannia"
[15:17:46] <sb-x> no offense
[15:17:52] * Darke giggles.
[15:24:23] <Darke> A quick search for lyrics, and one butchered flick of a stanza. "I'm to sexy for this crown, too sexy for this crown. So sexy it hurts. And I'm to sexy for this throne, too sexy for this throne. This thrown that I own. I'm too sexy for Britannia, too sexy for Britannia. Don't cast that Armageddon." Yes, it doesn't make sense. Like the original did?
[15:24:58] * Darke thinks it's the 'surreal' time of night again...
[15:25:06] <sb-x> You should go to sleep. :)
[15:25:29] <sb-x> The only thing I have to say is... you had to _search_ for the lyrics???
[15:25:39] <Darke> But, but, but... then I couldn't inflict upon you such horrible filks!
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[15:25:47] <bj0ern> hi
[15:25:50] <Colourless> hi
[15:25:51] <sb-x> hi
[15:25:53] <Darke> sb-x: Pretty much. I always avoided the song. <grin>
[15:25:54] <Darke> Hi.
[15:26:05] <wjp> hi
[15:26:09] <sb-x> heh
[15:27:00] <bj0ern> aha
[15:27:07] <bj0ern> an aprils fools joke ;)
[15:27:20] <Fingolfin> hu?
[15:27:27] <bj0ern> the announcement
[15:27:30] <Darke> What April Fools joke?
[15:27:31] <Fingolfin> what?
[15:27:33] <Fingolfin> that is no joke
[15:27:42] <bj0ern> hehe ;)
[15:27:43] <Fingolfin> though the date was maybe chosen in a bad fashion, yeah
[15:27:49] <bj0ern> yoyo
[15:27:52] <bj0ern> :P
[15:28:03] <Fingolfin> damn, you are to clever, go away! :-)
[15:28:07] <bj0ern> lol
[15:28:09] <Fingolfin> s/to/too/
[15:28:49] * sb-x plays an mp3.
[15:31:17] <sb-x> This is two years old but oh well: "Microsoft Purchases Evil from Satan" http://bbspot.com/news/2000/4/MS_Buys_Evil.html
[15:32:28] <royalsexy> lol
[15:32:31] * royalsexy scrools up
[15:32:36] <royalsexy> scrolls
[15:33:05] <wjp> sb-x: hehe, hadn't seen that one yet :-)
[15:52:48] <royalsexy> haha
[15:52:53] <royalsexy> thats very funny
[15:53:03] <royalsexy> almost as good as april foolish jokes
[15:58:04] --- royalsexy is now known as flurotube
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[16:03:55] <bj0ern|W> re
[16:04:08] <bj0ern|W> connection problems as always
[16:04:49] <Colourless> hmmm: http://theforce.net/
[16:05:19] * wjp blinks
[16:05:28] <wjp> I'm guessing that's not what that site's supposed to be about? :-)
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[16:05:35] <Colourless> nope
[16:05:43] <bj0ern|W> ick
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[16:05:56] <Colourless> theforce.net is probably the largest star wars fan site :-)
[16:06:10] <wjp> hehe :-)
[16:06:39] <Colourless> the joke come from nsync being cast as extras in 'Attack of the Clones'
[16:06:59] <Colourless> and then the huge outcry from star wars fans :-)
[16:07:51] <wjp> yeah, I heard about that :-)
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[16:18:53] <sb-x> oooh... N*SIDER INFO
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[16:34:04] <bj0ern> grr
[16:34:30] <royalsexy> grr?
[16:34:47] <sb-x> grr
[16:34:54] <Colourless> grrrr!
[16:35:00] * royalsexy roars!
[16:35:04] <Fingolfin> gggrrr
[16:35:10] * royalsexy coughs
[16:35:14] <bj0ern> i just have those disconnects with my PC, not one of these with my macs
[16:35:28] <royalsexy> i think it's built in
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[17:22:44] <Colourless> hi
[18:01:45] <bj0ern> which port range is used by DCC?
[18:02:26] <royalsexy> 1024-8000 i think
[18:02:41] <royalsexy> 1024-5000
[18:02:42] <royalsexy> sorry
[18:02:44] <royalsexy> thats it
[18:03:05] <bj0ern> ok, thank you
[18:03:26] <royalsexy> no worries
[18:06:07] <bj0ern> worked :)
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[18:11:55] <Dominus> heilig
[18:11:56] <Colourless> hi
[18:11:57] <Dominus> hey ho
[18:12:01] <Dominus> I just love EA
[18:12:13] <Dominus> whatever I said before
[18:12:15] <bj0ern> who doesn't
[18:15:13] <sb-x> hi Dominus
[18:18:13] <Fingolfin> Dominus: you got see Star Wars in a imax or how those are called.. I saw the first minutes (with the star destroyer hunting the rebel ship), and it was IMPRESSIVE
[18:18:25] <Fingolfin> this gigantic screen, and a huuuuge SD flyes in, woa
[18:18:43] <Fingolfin> you shrink back into your seats, by reflex =)
[18:19:07] <royalsexy> hrm
[18:19:12] <royalsexy> that sounds great
[18:21:09] <sb-x> there is an imax here but i havn't seen anything in it
[18:22:13] <royalsexy> yeah here too
[18:25:05] <Dominus> hm, great idea, I have those veeeery good connections to some Imax-theaters
[18:44:39] --- Fingolfin has changed the topic to: Happy April Fool's day,
[18:47:39] <royalsexy> :)
[18:48:02] <Dominus> we hope you enjoyed it
[18:48:39] <royalsexy> very much
[18:48:47] <royalsexy> after fingolfin told me it was a joke
[18:48:55] <royalsexy> :)
[18:48:59] <wjp> :-)
[18:49:01] <royalsexy> i was most unhappy up till htne
[18:49:02] <royalsexy> then
[18:51:08] <sb-x> Aww
[18:51:26] <sb-x> You've spoilt it :)
[18:51:36] <royalsexy> heheh
[18:51:57] <Dominus> no, it was time to say it was a joke
[18:51:57] <sb-x> Ouch, I've been here for over 12 hours. Time to go.
[18:52:03] <sb-x> heh
[18:52:09] <sb-x> but it's still april 1st :\
[18:52:13] <sb-x> anyway
[18:52:14] <-- sb-x has left IRC ("so long")
[18:52:25] <Colourless> cya
[18:52:48] <royalsexy> you guys don't mind if i idle in here when i'm gone do you?
[18:53:07] <Dominus> nope, you are not the only one
[18:53:08] <Colourless> of course not
[18:53:19] <Colourless> we idle here even when we *are* here :-)
[18:53:19] <royalsexy> cool
[18:53:23] <royalsexy> :)
[18:53:27] <royalsexy> heheheh
[18:54:08] <royalsexy> i set my bnc up to sit on this network as well as efnet
[18:54:27] <royalsexy> i was pretty impressed that it could do that :)
[19:34:24] <bj0ern> hehe --> http://atomfilms.shockwave.com/af/content/al_qaeda
[19:47:13] <Dominus> Colourless: what's the url to GlideXP?
[19:48:40] <Colourless> use http://www.users.on.net/triforce/glidexp/ it will redirect to the actual page
[19:48:50] <Dominus> okay
[19:49:30] <Dominus> hey, you did a new release
[19:49:32] <Dominus> :-)
[19:49:43] <Colourless> yeah :-)
[19:49:54] <Dominus> fixed the u9 bug?
[19:50:01] <Colourless> yeah
[19:50:08] <Dominus> cool!
[19:51:06] * bj0ern thinks about playing U9 again
[19:53:02] * royalsexy thinks about playing u9 for the first time one of these days
[19:53:31] <Fingolfin> Dominus: http://www.hr-online.de/hf/hr3/aktionen/rds/index.shtml
[19:53:41] <bj0ern> be prepared to restart it often hehe
[19:53:46] <Dominus> if you do, I'd consider applying the fan patch so the game has some more consistency with the older ultimas
[19:53:54] <Fingolfin> Dominus: indeed, just look http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/jk-01.04.02-007/ =)
[19:53:59] <bj0ern> fan patch?
[19:54:21] <Dominus> bj0ern: http://www.fansforultima.com/
[19:54:49] <royalsexy> wicked
[19:54:54] <royalsexy> thats a great idea
[19:54:59] <Dominus> Fingolfin: he he
[19:55:07] <bj0ern> sms per rds? stupid
[19:55:50] <bj0ern> i think you got me now
[19:55:52] <bj0ern> :P
[19:56:22] <bj0ern> dominus: thanks.
[19:56:46] <bj0ern> ah
[19:56:52] <bj0ern> is it for the US version only?
[19:57:06] <Dominus> hm, actually I think yes it is
[19:57:31] <bj0ern> ah, ok
[19:57:40] <bj0ern> no matter. i have both dragon editions
[19:58:08] <Dominus> I'd then go for the english one :-)
[19:58:34] <bj0ern> :P
[20:01:24] <Colourless> about time for me to go
[20:01:47] <Dominus> good night
[20:02:19] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("no comment")
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[21:15:47] <Dominus> hmm, CVS-ML is not working right now it seems
[21:16:19] <wjp> yeah, looks like it
[21:16:38] <Dominus> I updated the quotes and even messed this little job up
[21:16:53] <Dominus> :-)
[21:20:40] <wjp> hey, you know that "X slaps Y around a bit with a large trout"? Any idea where it came from originally?
[21:21:07] <Dominus> nope, or actually I think I heard about it sometime ago
[21:21:12] <Dominus> but can't remember
[21:21:27] <Dominus> Asterix & Obelix?
[21:21:31] <Dominus> :-)
[21:22:49] <wjp> someone suggested it may be from Monty Python's "fish-slapping dance"
[21:22:55] <wjp> never heard of that dance, though
[21:23:16] <Dominus> me neither but then I never saw all of their eps
[21:25:35] * wjp should go
[21:25:36] <wjp> goodnight
[21:25:43] <Dominus> goodnight
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[22:13:26] <EazyCheez> WOO HOO! Congrats on being assimilated by the great EA ;)
[22:13:37] <Dominus> he he
[22:13:53] <Dominus> april 1st is just the best day on the net
[22:14:38] <EazyCheez> but really guys, The Complete Ultima VII? Even if I didn't know it was April Fools Day I'd think that's a little fishy... I mean, there was a package already released by that name!
[22:14:47] <EazyCheez> I should know, I have it :)
[22:15:06] <EazyCheez> but I don't use it, because I have the Ultima Collection disc that came with Ultima 9
[22:15:09] <Dominus> he - it was supposed to be pretty obvious actually
[22:19:32] * royalsexy turns 4red
[22:19:46] <Dominus> he he
[22:20:08] <royalsexy> heheh
[22:20:18] <royalsexy> i just read the headline before i came on here :)
[22:20:24] <royalsexy> thats my excuse and i'm sticking with it
[22:20:27] <royalsexy> (!)
[22:20:43] <Dominus> don't feel bad :-)
[22:20:51] <Dominus> a lot of people fell for it
[22:21:12] <royalsexy> heheh
[22:21:15] <royalsexy> okok
[22:50:32] <Dominus> bye
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