#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 1 Jan 2004 (GMT)

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[01:41:47] <SB-X> hi wjp
[01:42:14] <wjp> hi
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[03:14:12] <Fingolfin> and also here: a happy new year
[03:14:20] <Fingolfin> boy multi channel new year greetings are stress =)
[03:14:39] * Darke cackles!
[03:14:51] <Darke> Hippy New Year!
[03:22:30] <SB-X> hmm
[03:22:35] <SB-X> when did Darke wake up?
[03:22:53] <SB-X> i must have been out of it for a while
[03:32:12] * Darke denies being awake. He's really asleep.
[03:32:38] <SB-X> Oh, alright.
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[07:37:34] <ShadwChsr> hi :)
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[10:52:09] <Colourless> hi
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[17:54:11] <hllrt> Exult kills sound (Alsa) on Debian running 2.6 kernel.
[17:54:34] <wjp> 'kills' ?
[17:54:53] <hllrt> I get no sound when I quit Exult.
[17:55:05] <wjp> hm, weird
[17:55:13] <wjp> do you get that with other SDL programs?
[17:55:14] <hllrt> Neither I get no sound while running Exult.
[17:55:20] <hllrt> Nope.
[17:55:28] <wjp> do you get any sound before running exult? :-)
[17:55:45] <hllrt> I didn't have this problem with 2.4.20 kernel.
[17:55:49] <hllrt> Sure :)
[17:55:53] <wjp> just checking :-)
[17:55:58] <wjp> 2.4.20 with alsa too?
[17:56:04] <hllrt> Yes.
[17:56:55] <hllrt> But I did have this problem with 2.4.23 kernel. I thought I could get rid of this problem by upgrading.
[17:57:14] <wjp> which version of sdl?
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[17:59:27] <hllrt> Damn, Chatzilla crashed. Back to BitchX.
[17:59:58] <hllrt> My SDL version is 1.2.6-2
[18:00:50] <wjp> any sound related messages on the terminal when starting exult?
[18:01:21] <hllrt> Couldn't open audio: No available audio device
[18:02:50] <wjp> the "No available audio device" is an error reported by SDL
[18:03:13] <wjp> or SDL_mixer, I think
[18:03:14] <hllrt> So I'll try to upgrade SDL.
[18:03:18] <hllrt> Thanx.
[18:06:40] <hllrt> Damn I got the latest SDL-mixer Debian package (testing/unstable). Downgrading back to stable isn't possible due to dependency problems.
[18:08:11] <wjp> hm
[18:10:20] <hllrt> It's strange that alsa is affected so that I lose all sound in my system.
[18:10:37] <wjp> yeah
[18:10:54] <wjp> do you have any other programs that use sdl_mixer?
[18:11:27] <hllrt> ScummVM
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[18:11:51] <Malekar> hey guys :D
[18:11:54] <wjp> scummvm doesn't use sdl-mixer
[18:11:57] <wjp> hi
[18:12:14] <hllrt> You are right.
[18:12:31] <Malekar> just a question, what does the scroll of infinity read? is it in binary or something?
[18:12:39] <Malekar> years ago i heard you would appreciate it if you were a programmer
[18:12:40] <Malekar> hehe
[18:13:09] <wjp> hm, it was some kind of pseudo-code from what I remember
[18:13:25] <Malekar> no one ever bothered to publicise a screenshot of it? :(
[18:13:46] <Malekar> have these ppl no sense of importance
[18:15:58] <wjp> basically the code seems to do something like: if the concave and convex lenses are in place, and the talismans of truth, courage, love are around, access the Void and get the talisman of infinity, followed by something about a powerful evil entity
[18:16:19] <hllrt> wjp: I'll try to find something that uses sdl-mixer.
[18:16:29] <Malekar> ohhhhhh
[18:16:43] <Malekar> i was sure it was in ascii code in binary form
[18:17:12] <Malekar> i was actually planning on playing u7 on my p 75 all over again
[18:17:19] <Malekar> hehe
[18:17:30] <Malekar> well thanks
[18:17:56] <Malekar> btw any idea if an ultima 7 with a new graphics engine is out there? not a mod hopefully
[18:18:15] <wjp> not as far as I know
[18:26:20] <hllrt> wjp: I have to restart by computer now so I get ALSA working again. Force-restarting ALSA didn't help.
[18:26:33] <wjp> really weird
[18:26:50] <wjp> I wonder what exactly is 'wrong' when alsa isn't working
[18:26:54] <hllrt> wjp: After running Exult I get this error message when I run Tuxracer (uses sdl-mixer): ALSA lib pcm_hw.c:1055:(snd_pcm_hw_open) open /dev/snd/pcmC0D0p failed: Device or resource busy
[18:27:03] <wjp> hm
[18:27:15] <wjp> try seeing if anything has that file open
[18:27:48] <hllrt> How do i figure that out?
[18:28:24] <wjp> "lsof | grep pcmC0D0p" should do it
[18:29:28] <hllrt> No hits.
[18:29:42] <hllrt> Strange indeed.
[18:31:06] <hllrt> Nothing with "/dev/snd/" either.
[18:31:09] <wjp> are there any exult processes still running?
[18:31:27] <hllrt> Nothing with exult in it's name :)
[18:32:31] <hllrt> Does exult start some other processes?
[18:33:03] <wjp> possibly playmidi or timidity
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[18:33:19] <hllrt> no
[18:33:33] <wjp> hm, I see that if the Mix_OpenAudio call fails, we don't shutdown the SDL audio subsystem
[18:34:50] <hllrt> So it's a bug in Exult?
[18:35:18] <hllrt> Is there a way to shut it down from CLI?
[18:35:35] <wjp> did you build exult from source?
[18:35:41] <wjp> (and which version of exult are you using?)
[18:35:56] <hllrt> no, mine is a debian/testing package.
[18:36:13] <hllrt> 1.00-2
[18:36:21] <wjp> hm, that's rather old
[18:36:48] <wjp> let's see if that one had the same problem
[18:37:05] <hllrt> I tried unstable, but that seems to be rathter old too. Damn Debian :(
[18:37:52] <wjp> yes, it had the same problem
[18:38:19] <wjp> if it is a problem at all, that is
[18:39:04] <wjp> no, it shouldn't be a problem
[18:39:15] <wjp> SDL shuts down the audio subsystem automatically
[18:39:45] <hllrt> Maybe I try to build the latest Exult from sources and see if this problem is somehow amazingly fixed. Though it seems it's not a bug in Exult.
[18:39:57] <wjp> exult 1.0 didn't use SDL_mixer, btw
[18:40:33] <hllrt> Good point.
[18:40:34] <hllrt> So what does it use then?
[18:40:43] <wjp> SDL itself
[18:41:04] <hllrt> k
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[18:42:36] <hllrt> I'll reboot now and get back if I have something new to tell. Thanks for the help so far.
[18:43:03] <wjp> k, let me know if you figure anything out :-)
[18:43:11] <hllrt> k, cu
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[19:40:30] <hllrt> Hi again.
[19:40:38] <wjp> wb
[19:42:31] <hllrt> I'm trying to compile exult, but although I have sdl-mixer 1.2.5-3 I get following error during configuration: configure: error: *** SDL_mixer version 1.2.4 or later not found!
[19:42:45] <wjp> do you have the devel package?
[19:43:19] <hllrt> God damn I'm getting stupid!
[19:50:14] <hllrt> Ok. It's compiling now.
[19:50:32] <hllrt> I've done too much tweaking today. It makes me do stupid mistakes and forget even the most basic things. I'd better go to sauna now. brb.
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[21:18:26] <hllrt> wjp: I tried Exult 1.1beta3 and the situation has changed.
[21:18:43] <wjp> is it better or worse? :-)
[21:19:04] <hllrt> Alsa doesn't die anymore, but there is still no sound in Exult.
[21:19:44] <wjp> still "No available audio device"?
[21:20:45] <hllrt> Not that anymore.
[21:21:36] <hllrt> The game lets me change the audio configurations, but it doesn't make a hiss.
[21:22:04] <wjp> do you get speakers with red crosses through them on the game selection menu?
[21:22:12] <hllrt> Yes.
[21:22:48] <wjp> after 1.0, we changed the sound effects system to require separate sfx packs
[21:23:21] <hllrt> And music packs too?
[21:23:25] <wjp> (I'm not too familiar with the audio part, but IIRC it was mainly because part of the sfx was hardcoded into the binary.)
[21:23:28] <wjp> music packs are optional
[21:23:33] <wjp> you can still play the music using midi
[21:23:53] <hllrt> I know, and everything used to work fine for me.
[21:24:32] <hllrt> After upgrading my kernel (and maybe some other packages related to exult) these sound issues started to occur.
[21:24:50] <hllrt> Now there is no midi music.
[21:25:25] <wjp> hm, that sounds like a problem with alsa then
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[21:25:51] <wjp> to work around it, you can set exult to use either 'fmsynth' or 'digital' for music. (digital requires the ogg music pack)
[21:25:59] <ShadwChsr> Hi
[21:26:07] <wjp> hi
[21:26:24] <hllrt> But ogg packs need v. 1.1 and it has some other issues too...
[21:26:57] <wjp> as far as exult is concerned, I'd recommend using v1.1beta3 over v1.0 anyway
[21:27:04] <wjp> (1.0 is really quite old)
[21:27:18] <hllrt> But 1.0 works better for me.
[21:27:31] <wjp> it does?
[21:27:57] <hllrt> The game loads a lot slower in v. 1.1.x than it did in v. 1.0.x. There are also some slowdowns here and there.
[21:30:39] <wjp> hm, peculiar
[21:30:54] <wjp> any output on the terminal during those slowdowns?
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[21:32:15] <hllrt> Exult 1.1beta3 just crashed and took X with it.
[21:32:33] <wjp> wow, I'm impressed
[21:32:49] <hllrt> wjp: If you said before something after me, please repeat it.
[21:32:58] <wjp> <wjp> hm, peculiar
[21:32:58] <wjp> <wjp> any output on the terminal during those slowdowns?
[21:33:14] <wjp> were you running fullscreen using dga?
[21:33:26] <hllrt> dga?
[21:33:40] <wjp> I guess that's a no, then
[21:33:53] <wjp> direct graphics access, or something. Usually requires root
[21:34:05] <hllrt> I'm going to start another X session to check those messages in terminal :)
[21:34:15] <wjp> or you can run exult in a window
[21:34:38] <hllrt> Good idea.
[21:38:18] <ShadwChsr> wjp.. ultima 8 sorts the entire loaded world into a list sorted for rendering, right?
[21:40:09] <wjp> no, just the visible area (plus an extra border)
[21:40:40] <wjp> (the 'fast' area, as it was apparently called)
[21:40:55] <ShadwChsr> I'm still trying to figure out my own system, not very good with these algorithms :)
[21:41:09] <ShadwChsr> How does it handle the list when, say, the screen moves?
[21:41:24] <ShadwChsr> does it regenerate the entire list, or just figure out whats new/old and remove or add them from the list, and just resort part of it?
[21:42:03] <hllrt> wjp: Hmmm... those slowdowns might be related to my audio problems. I accidentaly started exult 1.0.2 and killed Alsa by doing that. The slowdowns are now gone in 1.1beta3.
[21:42:12] <wjp> ShadwChsr: the list is regenerated every frame
[21:42:27] <wjp> hllrt: ah, that reminds me of something
[21:42:38] <hllrt> Or maybe the non-fullscreen mode has something to do with this. I need to do more research on this issue.
[21:42:53] <hllrt> wjp: Tell me :)
[21:43:10] <wjp> ...browsing through SDL mailing list archives...
[21:44:48] <wjp> hm, posts are a bit vague, but it looks like a bug in sdl 1.2.6 that's been fixed in sdl's cvs recently
[21:45:24] <hllrt> Can I have the link?
[21:45:27] <wjp> hm, no, it may not have been fixed yet
[21:45:41] <wjp> well, it's in one of my local mail folders :-)
[21:45:54] <hllrt> :)
[21:46:31] <wjp> http://www.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl/2003-December/058752.html
[21:48:20] <hllrt> Yeah it's vague, but this line sounds familiar: "it causes high CPU
[21:48:23] <hllrt> usage, interrupted sound and stuttering"
[21:48:40] * wjp nods; that's why I thought it might apply here
[21:49:43] <ShadwChsr> Is there any sort of presorting done to make the sort go faster? And how does it determine what things need to be rendered?
[21:50:01] <ShadwChsr> Wouldn't quite a bit of the time be just going through the list of all loaded objects and figuring out which are shown? :)
[21:50:15] <hllrt> wjp: The 2x scaling is very slow too, even on point scaler. But I doubt that's a sdl-mixer issue.
[21:51:14] <wjp> ShadwChsr: the world is split up into square areas (chunks). Each chunk that isn't in the fast area is completely ignored
[21:51:20] <wjp> hllrt: yeah, scaling is slow
[21:51:29] <hllrt> wjp: It's a lot faster on OS X than Linux. I haven't tried it on Windows though.
[21:52:03] <ShadwChsr> Yeah, thats what I had programmed.. the chunk concept. The problem I've been having is how to handle objects that are halfway between chunks - which chunk are they on?
[21:52:27] <wjp> ShadwChsr: if in doubt, just add it to the list
[21:52:31] <ShadwChsr> and I assume then that all players/monsters/npcs/buildings/objects are "children" of the chunks, not just the static world data?
[21:52:42] <wjp> ShadwChsr: yes
[21:54:51] <ShadwChsr> Hmmmm you always have such excellent information :)
[21:55:14] <ShadwChsr> brb
[21:55:54] <hllrt> wjp: Thanks for all the help. I think for now we have to assume that the problem will dissappear on some upgrade to libsdl or alsa.
[21:56:07] <wjp> hllrt: yeah, I hope so
[21:56:45] <hllrt> No exult for a while then :(
[21:57:10] <wjp> do you still have oss?
[21:57:21] <wjp> if so, you could force sdl to use it, maybe
[21:57:28] <hllrt> I think I compiled the emulation.
[21:57:56] <wjp> export SDL_AUDIODRIVER=oss, or something
[21:58:51] <hllrt> thanks.
[22:02:17] <hllrt> bye
[22:02:42] <wjp> bye
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[22:03:10] <sbx> bye
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