#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 1 May 2003 (GMT)

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[00:44:16] <wraithfs> hey... got a question for anyone listening... I'm running a bastardized slack 8.0 box, kern 2.4.20, alsa v0.90.0 (i think), just installed the latest SDL, cannot get sound out of exult
[00:44:43] <wraithfs> sorry, alsa 0.9.0rc7
[00:45:24] <wraithfs> anyone got any ideas? gonna try the SDL_AUDIODRIVER env var but... i get the little speaker with an X over it when i load exult, for both SI and BG
[00:45:51] <Eclair> humm...
[00:45:57] <wraithfs> sound card == SBLive (emu10k1 driver)
[00:46:04] <Eclair> are you using OSS or alsa
[00:46:10] <Eclair> and if alsa are you using pcm-oss?
[00:46:22] <wraithfs> alsa, pcm-oss keeps getting loaded by some program or another
[00:46:37] <Eclair> humm.....
[00:46:44] <Eclair> it should be defaulting to oss-emu
[00:46:52] <Eclair> I have no probs, using alsa
[00:46:54] <Eclair> emu10k1
[00:47:55] <wraithfs> do you know where i can get any kind of sdl test suite to see if it's exult or SDL?
[00:48:01] <wjp> the x over the speaker means you have no sfx pack installed
[00:48:12] <wjp> so you won't get any sfx, but music could work
[00:48:14] <Eclair> wjp want the packs
[00:48:27] <Eclair> let me quickly zip'em (tar.bz2)
[00:48:28] <wjp> which exult version are you using?
[00:48:33] <wjp> Eclair: ?
[00:48:35] <Eclair> beta
[00:48:38] <wraithfs> hm... 1.00, just downloaded
[00:48:41] <Eclair> test release
[00:48:54] <Eclair> Exult version 1.1.0cvs
[00:49:08] <wraithfs> bz2 works fine. the U7's I installed using Wine, so they're on ext2 partitions - could it be a case-sensitivity issue?
[00:49:13] <wraithfs> i installed from Ultima Collection
[00:49:16] <Eclair> no
[00:49:23] <wjp> no, case shouldn't matter
[00:49:24] <Eclair> I didn't even BOTHER to use install
[00:49:25] <Eclair> just cp
[00:49:28] <Eclair> cp u7/si
[00:49:36] <wjp> what did exult say on startup about midi?
[00:49:44] <Eclair> music and/or sfx?
[00:50:04] <wraithfs> "Internal cheapass forked timidity synthesizer"... "Creating new player thread"
[00:50:18] <Eclair> bah
[00:50:19] <wjp> ok, so it's trying to play using timidity
[00:50:22] <Eclair> get the ogg
[00:50:28] <Eclair> you'll like it better, trust me
[00:50:31] <wraithfs> i didn't get any music out of it, but i have a really skewed MIDI setup.
[00:50:33] <wraithfs> OGG?
[00:50:37] <Eclair> give a bit for taring
[00:51:21] <Eclair> it's a tar.bz2
[00:51:48] <Soul|LOVE> http://soulnet.tk/kenonken.jpg
[00:52:32] <wraithfs> so i should just cp -rf from the UC cd instead of using the install program
[00:52:33] <wraithfs> ?
[00:52:39] <Eclair> doesn't matter
[00:52:46] <Eclair> all you need is static/*
[00:53:26] <wraithfs> okay.
[00:53:29] <wraithfs> just curious. what is this OGG?
[00:53:39] <Eclair> it's the ORIGINAL mt-32 stuff
[00:53:44] <Eclair> it's worth it :)
[00:53:55] <wraithfs> where get?
[00:54:03] <Eclair> it's on the site
[00:54:08] <Eclair> but I'm going to send it to you
[00:54:14] <Eclair> make it easier on you
[00:54:27] <wraithfs> score.
[00:54:33] <Eclair> make sure it's untarred at exult/share
[00:54:39] <Eclair> or where ever your share dir is
[00:55:13] <Eclair> though
[00:55:19] <Eclair> I suggest getting the 1.1.x snapshots
[00:55:26] <Eclair> it only works with the snapshot
[00:55:37] <Eclair> good thing is it's easy to upgrade
[00:55:55] <Eclair> i should start playing it again
[00:56:12] <Eclair> though you'll need sdl_mixer
[00:56:18] <Eclair> but again, it's well worth it
[00:56:24] <Eclair> http://exult.sourceforge.net/download.php (source)
[00:58:31] <Eclair> coming down the pipe now
[00:58:50] <wraithfs> ack, crap, gotta work through this screwed up auto*/aclocal setup...
[01:02:02] <wraithfs> shit. okay i ran aclocal, autoheader, autoconf; if i try ./configure, it wants an "install-sh" or "install.sh", if i try "automake" it gives me a bunch of different errors. i know this is a dumb question, but i've never seen the answer to it anywhere: what's the quick way to get these packages from source to binary?
[01:06:55] <wraithfs> ugh. okay, then, anyone have a linux-compatible source package or non-static-linked binaries then?
[01:07:36] <Eclair> umm...
[01:07:40] <Eclair> what glibc
[01:07:43] <Eclair> and gcc
[01:08:07] <wraithfs> 2.0 or 2.1, i forget. gcc 2.95.3 (gcc 3.x gave me crap)
[01:08:21] <Eclair> /lib/libc.so.6
[01:08:24] <Eclair> type that in console
[01:08:32] <Eclair> it'll spit out your glibc version
[01:08:43] <wraithfs> i'll be damned. never knew you could run that. 2.2.5
[01:08:50] <Eclair> hehe
[01:09:12] <Eclair> what errors if I may ask?
[01:09:46] <wraithfs> i copied install.sh from the old Exult package, and now:
[01:09:51] <Eclair> ahhh
[01:09:52] <wraithfs> configure: error: cannot run /bin/sh ./config.sub
[01:09:55] <Eclair> you shouldn't of done that
[01:10:01] <Eclair> you need to generate it
[01:10:08] <wraithfs> how do i do that?
[01:10:19] <Eclair> remove the new source and unpack
[01:10:22] <Eclair> let's start clean :)
[01:10:28] <wraithfs> roger.
[01:10:38] <wraithfs> done
[01:10:48] <Eclair> okay first get sdl_mixer
[01:10:55] <Eclair> umm... www.libsdl.org
[01:10:56] <Eclair> iirc
[01:11:27] <Eclair> you should get CVS release
[01:11:53] <Eclair> finding correct website... hold
[01:12:08] <Eclair> http://www.libsdl.org/projects/SDL_mixer/
[01:12:31] <Eclair> do you have libvorbis and co?
[01:12:37] <Eclair> ile. can you play oggs?
[01:13:28] <wraithfs> as far as i know, though i don't have any files to test with. installed libvorbis a long time ago. (libvorbis.so.0.2.0 is the present one)
[01:13:37] <wraithfs> err, the one presently in my /usr/local/lib
[01:13:42] <Eclair> ok
[01:13:46] <Eclair> what about libogg
[01:13:49] <Eclair> got that too?
[01:13:59] <Eclair> ldconfig -v|grep libogg
[01:14:29] <wraithfs> 0.4.0. yup.
[01:14:43] <Eclair> okay
[01:14:50] <Eclair> get the latest release of sdl_mixer
[01:14:57] <wraithfs> making presently
[01:14:58] <Eclair> also do ldconfig|grep SDL
[01:15:50] <Eclair> ok
[01:15:53] <wraithfs> i get nothing from that, even though i just installed SDL 1.2.5 (upgraded from 1.2.0)
[01:15:59] <Eclair> okay
[01:16:02] <Eclair> that's okay
[01:16:06] <Eclair> if sdl_mixer compiles your good
[01:16:43] <wraithfs> installed.
[01:16:57] <Eclair> NOW goto the exult source dir
[01:17:09] <Eclair> do ./autogen.sh
[01:17:39] <wraithfs> stupid zip format took execute perms off that file, changed, running...
[01:17:55] <Eclair> use sh $FILE if you need :)
[01:18:27] <wraithfs> eh, i just chmodded it. "I am now ready to run ./configure"... alright, hopefully i should be able to take it from here
[01:18:37] <Eclair> yup
[01:18:59] <wjp> hm, 3:20am... maybe I should go :-)
[01:19:09] <wjp> night
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[01:19:48] <wraithfs> how are the autogen.sh / configure.in generated? i haven't looked much but i haven't found good docs on these auto scripts. i know glade and KDevelop will make them for you, but i'm still not sure how to make them do what you want
[01:20:25] <Eclair> automake, autoconf
[01:21:06] <wraithfs> or Makefile.am for that matter.
[01:21:25] <Eclair> autogen
[01:21:34] <Eclair> auto* basicly
[01:22:05] <wraithfs> more precisely, say i've got a directory full of code and am still using gcc -o programname *.c to compile it.
[01:22:15] <Eclair> hehe
[01:22:24] <Eclair> that stinks
[01:23:44] <wraithfs> yeah, it really does. trying to learn how to progress beyond that. directly writing Makefiles seems to be obselete. i know the topic's not relevant to this room but - where do i go from there? (no program named autogen in my $PATH either)
[01:24:06] <Eclair> honestly have no clue
[01:24:08] <Eclair> time to google
[01:26:17] <wraithfs> eh, no worries, just kinda a question that's been plaguing me for a while.
[01:27:47] <Eclair> hehe
[01:32:00] <wraithfs> dum dee doo, building... gonna go for a cig and maybe dinner... hey, you guys seen that project that's reconstructing ultima I into 3D?
[01:32:31] <_Servus_> just about everyone has, the project lead for that one comes in rarely
[01:32:32] <Eclair> yeah
[01:32:47] <Eclair> what about the OLD U6 project
[01:32:52] <Eclair> I heard that died rather quickly
[01:33:07] <_Servus_> nuvie? that ones recent altogether
[01:33:11] <Eclair> no
[01:33:14] <Eclair> the u6 to 3D
[01:33:34] <_Servus_> oh
[01:33:42] <_Servus_> thought it was psuedo3d like diablo, and got finished?
[01:33:45] <_Servus_> *shrugs*
[01:33:51] <Eclair> no it died
[01:33:56] <wraithfs> ah... hadn't heard of that. i'd really like to see that. kinda grew up with u6, that was the first game i ever really got into.
[01:34:05] <Eclair> hehe
[01:34:14] <Eclair> maybe nuvie will go 3D soon :)
[01:34:21] <Eclair> AFTER they get the 2D working :)
[01:34:26] <_Servus_> the 2d is working
[01:34:37] <_Servus_> i spent 5 hours hacking the original u6 in softice
[01:34:42] <_Servus_> its the worst programming ive EVER seen
[01:34:46] <Eclair> hehe
[01:34:48] <wraithfs> one baby step at a time...
[01:34:54] <wraithfs> hahah..
[01:35:01] <Eclair> I hear they're still doing some of the basic stuff
[01:35:13] <wraithfs> it is working? what's the name of the project?
[01:35:19] <Eclair> nuvie
[01:35:22] <Eclair> #nuvie
[01:35:26] <_Servus_> #nuvie, but its very alpha still, just the graphics look quite good
[01:35:33] <_Servus_> its alpha-beta, actually, maybe:P
[01:35:34] <Eclair> I agree about the graphics
[01:35:41] <Eclair> they DO look really good considering
[01:36:45] <_Servus_> well, as good as u6 ever did:P
[01:38:38] <Eclair> yeah
[01:40:32] <_Servus_> theres a version of ultima underworld for the playstation with 1997-modern graphisc.
[01:40:44] <_Servus_> slightly modified architecture, new music, etc.
[01:41:38] <Eclair> hehe
[01:41:44] <Eclair> I still like the MT-32 music
[01:41:47] <_Servus_> i cant find much info on it *anywhere*
[01:42:04] <_Servus_> apparently its japan-only, so i went to amazon.co.jp and couldnt find anything on it either! argh! i just wanna rom!
[01:45:47] <Eclair> :(
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[02:56:10] <wraithfs> still no sound.
[02:56:20] <wraithfs> i'm gonna try moving it over to a fat32 filesystem just in case
[02:57:49] <Eclair> that shouldn't have anything to do with it
[02:58:04] <wraithfs> i don't think so either, that's why i'm trying it
[02:58:10] <Eclair> did you follow the directions it gave?
[02:58:13] <_Servus_> set blaster=a5 d220 i7? :-)
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[02:58:55] <Eclair> ?!?!?!?
[02:58:58] <wraithfs> Internal SDL_mixer timidity synthesiser is the only line about sound. set blaster i didn't here?
[02:59:00] <Eclair> we're not in DOS
[02:59:06] <servus> (heehee)
[02:59:19] <wraithfs> yeah, i was gonna say
[02:59:19] <Eclair> wraithfs: did you explicitly INCLUDE vorbis?
[02:59:33] <wraithfs> explicitly. no. crap.
[02:59:55] <Eclair> heh
[03:00:05] <Eclair> also you need to enable DigitalSound
[03:00:09] <Eclair> under audio
[03:00:15] <Eclair> then kill/restart
[03:01:51] <wraithfs> tried adding <DigitalAudio>\n<enabled>\nyes\n</enabled>\n</DigitalSound> to exult.cfg, no effect, where do i explicitly include vorbis?
[03:02:08] <Eclair> in the sdl_mixer
[03:02:15] <Eclair> also you should be doing this from the actual program
[03:02:19] <Eclair> and not editing the config :)
[03:02:48] <wraithfs> okay. 'the actual program' being an sdl mixer program of some sort? (heh, i didn't even look at what i'd installed)
[03:03:37] <Eclair> no
[03:03:42] <Eclair> the actual program being exult
[03:04:04] <wraithfs> no digital sound option anywhere i can find in exult (checked main audio menu and audio menu in U7 black gate); Digitized Speech was set to enabled
[03:04:22] <Eclair> did you remember to install the NEW version?
[03:04:23] <Eclair> under MIDI\
[03:04:26] <Eclair> EOF
[03:04:53] <wraithfs> i did. 1.1.0cvs is the version
[03:06:58] <wraithfs> ah, sweet. found it. getting birds chirping and so forth. still have those pictures of speakers with x-es over them, got music in the game though. thanks!
[03:07:56] <Eclair> welcome
[03:08:01] <Eclair> but listen to the oggs
[03:08:04] <Eclair> you'll like them
[03:08:56] <wraithfs> will do.
[03:09:16] <wraithfs> ha. apparently i don't have an ogg/vorbis plugin for xmms after all. wonder why i'd had the libraries installed in the first place
[03:10:25] <wraithfs> and xmms' site is offline. will listen to them later.
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[03:11:18] <Eclair> hehe
[03:11:27] <Eclair> fun...
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[09:38:30] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: An open-source engine for Ultima 7: The Black Gate and The Serpent Isle; http://exult.sf.net/
[09:38:30] --- Topic for #exult set by SB-X at Fri Apr 4 19:07:29 2003
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[10:04:49] <Yuv422> hi
[10:05:18] <Kirben> Hi Yuv422
[10:05:38] <Yuv422> I just saw the MD screen shot.
[10:05:40] <Yuv422> nice
[10:05:56] <Yuv422> I haven't had time to unpack my copy of MD yet
[10:06:22] <Yuv422> as it's on 3.5" discs :(
[10:06:45] <Yuv422> vividos seems to have it covered though.
[10:12:59] <servus> ever install softICE?
[10:14:53] <Yuv422> not yet. :(
[10:15:09] <Yuv422> I'm itching to get it going
[10:15:18] <Yuv422> but work work work
[10:15:38] * Yuv422 wonders if anyone would pay him to write nuive. ;)
[10:16:03] <Yuv422> did you find out anything else?
[10:16:05] <servus> ill buy you a sandwich
[10:16:16] <servus> not yet, ive been working on my own things and school :-)
[10:16:25] <Yuv422> can I choose the fillings?
[10:16:34] <Yuv422> np
[10:17:18] <Yuv422> I might fix up Actor flags
[10:17:34] <Yuv422> so SB-X can add flag changing into Converse
[10:18:45] <servus> sure, bring your own fillings, great idea :-P
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[13:10:16] <Colourless> hi
[13:10:26] <Yuv422> hi colourless
[13:14:36] <DarkeZzz> Hiya.
[13:14:43] --- DarkeZzz is now known as Darke
[13:14:48] <Kirben> Hi Colourless
[13:14:49] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[13:15:05] <Colourless> gee, your getting up late :-)
[13:15:11] <Colourless> s/your/you're/
[13:15:39] <servus> late? it's only 6am! :-)
[13:16:13] <Darke> Something like that. I should probably be asleep again in an hour or so. *grin*
[13:16:55] <Colourless> :-)
[13:22:11] <servus> yay, my physics program works just dandy!
[13:22:42] <Darke> Always good. I'd hate to have gravity suddenly be reverse on me. Would make quite a mess. *grin*
[13:23:02] <Colourless> i don't know, that could be quite interesting if controllable
[13:24:03] <servus> that used to be my biggest phobia as a young child.
[13:24:42] <Colourless> that is quite the irrational phobia if i've ever heard one
[13:25:30] <servus> i was always looking for something nearby to hold onto, and i hoped it had strong roots :-)
[13:26:46] * Darke was always pretty sure that gravity always pulled down and it was fairly constant. *grin*
[13:28:14] <servus> i had very strong winds at my school, i was very small, we were on a mile high cliff, and my mom bought me windbreakers. any questions? :-)
[13:29:28] <Darke> I'm surprised no-one bought you a pair of heavy shoes and told you that they'd make sure you never blew away. *grin*
[13:29:47] <Darke> Of course, then there'd be the problem getting them off you when you were going to sleep at night then... *grin*
[13:30:47] <servus> the gravity can go off when youre in the bed too, remember.
[13:31:26] <Darke> *noddle* But there's this 'ceiling' thing that'd stop you floating away then. *grin*
[13:31:41] <Colourless> are you sure you're not an alien who thinks he's human and arrived here on a space craft? you may have repressed memories :-)
[13:32:20] <servus> if the gravity goes off, whats to stop the entire house from falling into space?
[13:32:39] <servus> i may be an alien, i think the kids knew... what planet is a 'dweeb' from?
[13:33:01] <Darke> Alpha Centauri, I think. *grin*
[13:33:19] <servus> i got called a dweeb all the time when i played that game! it must be the truth!
[13:34:05] <Darke> Yep! Don't thank me for this enlightenment, I'm just doing my job. *grin*
[13:34:58] <Yuv422> servus: I've just noticed that jim has figured out ladders. :)
[13:35:11] <Yuv422> in his new pu6e
[13:35:49] <servus> oh yeah? what was it?
[13:36:01] <servus> i hacked that game for _hours_, its the worst code ive ever seen in my life.
[13:36:11] <Yuv422> remeber the bit shifts?
[13:36:12] <Yuv422> ;)
[13:36:20] <servus> bit shift by 4?
[13:36:26] <Yuv422> by 2
[13:36:34] <Yuv422> player->move(((obj->x & 0x07) | (obj->x >> 2 & 0xF8)), ((obj->y & 0x07) | (obj->y >> 2 & 0xF8)), level+1);
[13:36:44] <servus> those numbers look very familiar :)
[13:37:15] <Yuv422> I really need to get a debugger up and running. ;0
[13:37:15] <servus> though it did ti quite differently
[13:37:27] <servus> it added FFFB and let it loop, for one thing, hah
[13:37:40] <servus> then it subtracted 4 later, hah.
[13:37:57] <servus> or added, or something, but its still the worst code ive ever seen
[13:38:18] <Yuv422> probably the optimizing compiler
[13:38:31] <servus> optimizing? what a joke, its the most inefficient code _ever_>
[13:39:02] <servus> interesting, thats 1111 1000 and 0000 0111...
[13:39:05] <Yuv422> how about obsficated (spelling?)
[13:39:10] * Colourless thinks some sort of protection
[13:39:11] <servus> obfuscated, yes, terribly so
[13:39:18] <servus> protection? in a 1989 game? :)
[13:39:39] <servus> why bother?
[13:40:56] <Kirben> Colourless: btw loom ega now works in ScummVM, although no music/sfx yet
[13:41:00] <Colourless> well it depends on what exactly it was trying to protect
[13:41:25] <Colourless> music and sfx were half the game :-)
[13:41:46] <servus> some of the best adventure games arent even known by the scummvm project lead, such as rex nebular, etc.
[13:41:50] <Colourless> in hardest difficulty it was virtually impossible to play without sound :-)
[13:43:12] <Kirben> I think music will be available soonish, fingolfin mentioned he was going to look into it.
[13:43:29] <Kirben> But no one has worked out the sound effects foramt used in old games yet.
[13:52:16] <Darke> "I thought when I started here I would have to become a disciplined programmer. Obviously, I was wrong.*~-Donovan Keithley upon seeing Strike Commander code." <- Completely incidental quote from the Pagan quotes file.
[13:55:00] <servus> maybe they wrote u6 too :-)
[14:05:17] <Darke> Doesn't look like it. The various people you can blame for the code are listed here: http://www.mobygames.com/game/sheet/gameId,104/ *grin*
[14:05:49] <Yuv422> Yay! Ladders are finally working properly
[14:05:53] <Yuv422> u
[14:06:02] <Yuv422> hehe whoops wrong window
[14:06:17] * Yuv422 tries to use a ladder in BitchX. *g*
[14:07:32] <Yuv422> I think I better clean this a bit.
[14:07:34] <Yuv422> player->move(
[14:07:34] <Yuv422> obj->x / 8 * 8 * 4 + ((obj->quality & 0x03) * 8) + (obj->x - obj->x / 8 * 8),
[14:07:34] <Yuv422> obj->y / 8 * 8 * 4 + ((obj->quality >> 2 & 0x03) * 8) + (obj->y - obj->y / 8 * 8),
[14:07:35] <Yuv422> level-1);
[14:09:49] <servus> heh
[14:09:50] <Darke> Let's see... Miles is the guy who the Miles Sounds System is named after... Miller has done everything from U5, to U9, including all of U7 and U8, along with the worlds of ultima... Scott Smith has worled on No Remorse, along with U9/UO, and the Worlds Of Ultima... looks like they all got better at coding anyway. *grin*
[14:09:56] <servus> so howd you figure it out? :P
[14:10:09] <Yuv422> Jim explained it
[14:10:27] <Yuv422> basically you map 4x4 chunks to 1 chunk
[14:10:28] <servus> he worked on the original?
[14:12:41] <Yuv422> did you automatically use a hole when you stepped on it in the original U6?
[14:14:06] <Colourless> yes i think so
[14:17:11] <Colourless> you know, you 'fall' into a hole :-)
[14:17:59] <Yuv422> I wonder if obj->quality controls that
[14:18:19] <Yuv422> I'lll have to check the surface holes
[14:21:16] <Yuv422> ok ladders are in cvs
[14:21:36] <Yuv422> tomorrow I'll fix cave and holes
[14:22:09] <Yuv422> it will probably be use->cave/hole till I get around to implementing smart objects. ;)
[14:25:52] <servus> well shoot, g'night
[14:27:35] <Yuv422> cya
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[14:39:45] <Fingolfin> yo
[14:39:53] <Colourless> yo
[14:41:32] <Darke> Hiya.
[14:41:36] <Darke> Night! *grin*
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[14:41:59] <Colourless> cya
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[15:05:59] <wjp> hi
[15:06:15] <Colourless> hi
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[16:23:57] <artaxerxes> back
[16:23:59] <artaxerxes> hi all
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