#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 20 Apr 2003 (GMT)

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[05:58:35] * Eclair is away: hunting
[05:58:58] * Darke pounces sbx and paints him an exquisite colour of fluro green!
[06:00:13] * sbx looks at his fluro green shirt.
[06:00:15] <sbx> Neat!
[06:00:28] * sbx gives Darke an apple.
[06:01:06] * Darke munches on the apple.
[06:01:27] <sbx> (it is a green apple)
[06:02:02] <Eclair> hehe
[06:02:03] <Darke> Surprisingly enough. *grin*
[06:02:53] * Darke navigates through Colourless' macro hell, to try to work out what the heck things are doing in pentagram's renderer. Much funness. *grin*
[06:04:08] <sbx> #ifdef DARKE_REALLY_HATES_THE_MACROS ...skip Colourless' code... #endif
[06:08:01] <Darke> Something like that. *grin*
[06:08:06] <ShadwChsr> hahaha
[06:08:09] <ShadwChsr> :)
[06:09:02] * Darke is just feeling bored, but his coding muse hasn't really reappeared, so he's just going through pentagram with his standard paranoid warning setup, and fixing all the warnings. Already fixed a couple of odd used-unitialised or incorrect initialised problems.
[06:14:06] * ShadwChsr nods
[06:34:46] <Darke> Admittedly though, the only reason I'm doing it is 'cause I compile with warnings on, and prefer not having my warnings hidden in a mass of ones that aren't really important to me. *grin*
[06:40:32] <ShadwChsr> lol
[06:40:39] <ShadwChsr> I always aim for 0 warnings
[06:41:18] <ShadwChsr> if you have a bunch of sloppy code warnings, you'll miss the important ones
[06:41:19] <Darke> Me too. Unfortunately some of gcc's warnings in some situations are rather funky, so I live with them since I can't remove them without removing warnings I do want.
[06:41:26] <ShadwChsr> And besides, it's just lazy coding ;P
[06:41:31] <ShadwChsr> Ahhhhhh never dealt with GCC before
[06:44:36] <Darke> Most are just 'old style cast' warnings, and unused parameter warnings. Which are fixed with the approprate static_cast's and commenting out the variable name, etc. There's a couple of funky ones now because, IIRC, `const char* const`'s equlivance to `const char[]` is being depreciated within gcc, which I haven't been able to completely elimiate properly yet.
[06:46:10] <Darke> AKA, they're mostly trivial and pointless, but you occasionally spot a 'real' warning once you've removed the all. Which is the whole point of the exercise. *grin*
[06:48:33] <ShadwChsr> :)
[06:48:52] <ShadwChsr> ahh, why would it complain about an old style cast?
[06:49:01] <ShadwChsr> What's the diff? :)
[06:49:41] <ShadwChsr> I started converting my code to static_cast just for consistency with my dynamic_cast calls, but isn't a static cast 100% the same as (cast)?
[06:50:01] <Darke> In C++ the basic `(foo*)bar` cast has been replaced with four different cast forms which cast more specific to their use.
[06:50:03] <Darke> Nope.
[06:50:38] <Darke> IIRC, static_cast converts at compile time between equilivant types.
[06:50:45] <Darke> dynamic_cast does the same thing at run time.
[06:50:57] <Darke> const_cast casts away a 'const' attribute.
[06:51:27] <Darke> reinterpret_cast does pretty much the same thing as the normal cast. AKA, it believes you no matter how stupid the cast you're trying to attempt looks to it. *grin*
[06:52:06] <sbx> static_cast sounds like (foo*)bar to me
[06:52:27] <ShadwChsr> yeah, that's what I assumed as well
[06:52:43] <sbx> i guess it gives some warnings?
[06:52:51] <sbx> or error
[06:52:51] <ShadwChsr> Not for me
[06:52:52] <sbx> unlike reinterpret?
[06:52:54] <sbx> hmm
[06:52:56] <Darke> Sure it's (foo*)bar, if the types are compatable, if they're not it'll give you an error at compile time.
[06:53:21] <ShadwChsr> Can I static cast something like.... static_cast<SomeType>(SomeOtherType), that aren't pointers?
[06:53:31] <Darke> For example: graphics/SoftRenderSurface.cpp:77: invalid static_cast from type `uint8*' to type `uint32*'
[06:53:40] <Darke> Yep.
[06:54:26] <Darke> dynamic_cast will do the same thing to static_cast, except it'll happen at runtime, so instead of an error at compile time, you'll get an abort() at runtime (IIRC).
[06:54:54] <ShadwChsr> No, I believe it throws an exception for non-pointers, or returns null for pointers
[06:57:38] <Darke> That works. You probably get an abort if you compiled it without exceptions.
[06:59:41] <sbx> ShadwChsr: do you use MSVC?
[07:00:03] <sbx> or was it .NET something
[07:00:33] <ShadwChsr> MSVC.net
[07:00:42] <ShadwChsr> aka MSVC v7
[07:00:55] <ShadwChsr> it's nice :)
[07:01:12] <sbx> i forgot my question
[07:01:21] <ShadwChsr> hehe
[07:01:48] * Darke wows. Cleaning out his harddisks he just encountered a copy of exult 0.30...
[07:02:06] <sbx> send it here
[07:02:12] <sbx> please?
[07:02:21] <Darke> Eh? Why? *grin*
[07:02:24] <sbx> is it source?
[07:02:36] <sbx> just to look at it
[07:02:50] <Darke> Source.
[07:02:55] <Darke> Wow, is it simple!
[07:03:00] * Darke will try dcc.
[07:03:35] <sbx> hehe
[07:03:36] <sbx> strange
[07:03:40] <sbx> --- Received a malformed DCC request from Darke.
[07:03:41] <sbx> --- Contents of packet: "DCC SEND exult-0.30.tar.gz ii 311102".
[07:04:08] <Darke> Ick. I'd really like to know what causes that.
[07:04:44] <sbx> ok
[07:05:03] <sbx> your xchat is greater than mine
[07:05:33] <Darke> Something like that. *grin* I'm pretty sure it's firewall related though.
[07:05:49] <sbx> thanks
[07:08:25] * sbx receives file.
[07:09:04] <Darke> Wow. I've got stuff on here of mine that goes back 15 years... I thought I lost this stuff... *ponder*
[07:11:21] <Darke> Hmm... compressed zip file, inside compressed rar file, inside compressed jar file... And the resulting file is *still* smaller? Talk about the efforts one goes to when one has a 256Meg hdd. *grin*
[07:13:40] <sbx> which proves you have no reason to clean it up
[07:13:44] <sbx> it fits in such a small space anyway
[07:14:02] <sbx> copy it to old/ and be done with it :)
[07:14:12] <sbx> well, that is cleaning it up actually
[07:14:17] <sbx> but in a non-destructive sense
[07:14:23] * Darke is currently digging through 140*Gig* of stuff here. And yeah, that's what's happening to most of it. *grin*
[07:14:44] <Darke> It's easier to buy a new hard drive every year or so, then it is to clear up all your old archives.
[07:15:59] <Darke> A copy of the System Shock 1 cd... piles of scans from my rpg books which I was slowly OCRing up years ago...
[07:20:01] <Darke> Half a dozen old warez games, almost all of which I've got legit copies of now... y'see, some creatures actually *do* purchase the games if they're worth it. *grin* Actually, the only game in there I don't have is Theme Hospital, which can be justifiably deleted anyway. *rm*
[07:21:57] * sbx never played either of those games. He still wants to play System Shock 1.
[07:22:43] <Darke> A file detailing the ultima7 cheat, which if you can't parrot off from memory, you really haven't played u7 enough. *grin*
[07:23:00] <Darke> SS1 is fun, providing you can find a machine that'll play it.
[07:24:43] <Darke> Looks like I've got the compiled exult-0.30 for windows too.
[07:28:33] <sbx> Kirben can put that up as Older Releases
[07:31:08] <sbx> Assuming anyone is interested. :)
[07:33:19] * Darke snickers.
[07:34:02] <ShadwChsr> Ugh, I think I just finished my new game timer ;)
[07:36:55] <ShadwChsr> Wrote a nice little reusable game framework :)
[09:23:58] <Darke> Yay!
[09:24:48] * Darke bleahs. reinterpret_cast<> really *does* look ugly. Which, all things considered, doing what it does is an ugly thing to begin with, so it makes sense in a way. *grin*
[09:25:46] <ShadwChsr> ;)
[09:26:21] <Darke> Hmm... anyone remember what the 'default' is if you're comparing between a signed and an unsigned int? Does it implicitly do an unsigned compare, or signed?
[09:26:23] <ShadwChsr> If you think that's ugly, try looking at the STL function definitions sometimes
[09:26:33] <ShadwChsr> I swear that they used random characters for the parameters
[09:26:34] <ShadwChsr> ;P
[09:28:52] * Darke points to his copy of Josuttis' "The C++ Standard Library". Get it. Worship it. You'll never have to look at such random junk again. *grin* At least not without a coherent explanation anyway.
[09:29:19] <ShadwChsr> gotta go, night!
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[09:29:34] <Darke> Yes, you're looking at $$$ cost, (AU$80 for him), but it really is worth it. Wost case if you have to grab a copy of the Dinkum ware manuals off the web. *grin*
[09:29:35] <Darke> Night!
[10:28:27] --> Fermi has joined #exult
[10:28:44] <Fermi> hi
[10:29:00] <sbx> Hi.
[10:29:07] <Darke> Greetings.
[10:29:20] <Fermi> what's up?
[10:29:49] <Fermi> Happy Easter to those who practice. ;)
[10:29:55] <Darke> The irc server thankfully. *grin*
[10:30:18] <Darke> And Happy Day of Bunnies and Much Chocolate to those who don't. *noddle*
[10:30:22] <Fermi> Oh yeah?
[10:30:27] <Fermi> Was it down?
[10:30:44] <sbx> It is going down/net-splitting frequently.
[10:30:52] <sbx> Because we don't donate enough money to freenode.
[10:30:52] <Fermi> Yeah I noticed that last night.
[10:30:58] <Fermi> for real?
[10:31:02] * sbx shrugs.
[10:31:20] <Darke> Nah. Just been doing quite a lot of net splitting lately as they've been rearranging things. *grin*
[10:32:08] <sbx> I gathered from the site that they need more donations or their ability to keep things from "rearranging" will be impaired. :)
[10:32:29] <Fermi> I see
[10:32:58] * Darke yays! He's gotten pentagram's warnings down to three. One he'd be hanged if he tried to fix and the other two that are the same, and are a bit of a puzzle to fix.
[10:33:12] <Fermi> Lemme get my shameless plug out of the way. http://moog.lzrd.net/
[10:34:08] <Fermi> Now...I know that Pentagram is just a 'viewer' at the moment...but are there higher hopes for it?
[10:34:38] <Darke> <mob voice> "I see Mr Sbx that you haven't donated... shall we say, frequently enough recently? I would suggest that you should start donting more frequently or we might have to 'rearrange' your server quite a bit more often in the future. I'm sure you understand that these things happen." </>
[10:34:58] * Fermi laughs
[10:35:20] <sbx> eep
[10:35:25] <sbx> Maybe I made it sound a little more devious than it really is. :)
[10:35:51] <Darke> It kinda executes usecode, it also kinda displays bit of stuff. There's also a few seperate tools that allow you to view things and disassemble things, etc, but it's really not all that functional at the moment as a 'play a game of u8' system. *grin*
[10:36:09] <sbx> It can bark.
[10:36:31] <Fermi> :) I get it. Just let the developers play and wait and see.
[10:36:53] <Darke> sbx: Yes, your phrasing was more then a little sinister. <mob> "Let's not do that again shall we? I'm sure such an... estimed collegue such as yourself can learn to choose his words better." </>
[10:37:15] * Darke thinks pentagram makes a *good* doggy!
[10:37:17] <sbx> lol
[10:37:29] * sbx gives Darke a chocolate bunny.
[10:37:37] <Fermi> score!
[10:37:57] <sbx> hmm
[10:38:01] * sbx gives Darke a chocolate human.
[10:38:23] <Fermi> score!
[10:39:27] * Darke nibbles random chocolate figurines.
[10:39:54] <Fermi> Santa is a human right?
[10:40:23] <sbx> Santa is an evil robot who lives on Pluto.
[10:41:01] <sbx> Just smile and nod.
[10:41:12] <Fermi> heh heh
[10:41:38] <Darke> Space alien. *noddle*
[10:42:17] <Fermi> So the north pole is really an alien base?
[10:44:04] * Fermi considers playing x-com
[10:44:16] <Darke> Of course! His alien base is burrowed into the solid ice slab there, rapidly churning away making mind control transmitters, (which he implants in innocent toys!), android elves, and mechanical reindeer which lasers that shoot out of their eyes (though in Rudolf's case, they made an error in the spec and the lazer comes out of his nose instead).
[10:44:42] <Darke> Mmm... X-Com fun! I wonder how far along that semi-remake of it came.
[10:45:53] <Fermi> UFO 2000...no updates since November of 2002
[10:48:01] <sbx> Who is DJ Moog?
[10:48:16] <Fermi> Our lizard mascot!
[10:49:33] <Fermi> There's a pic of him spinning for the snorks on the about page
[10:50:00] <Fermi> Moog is the last name of the inventor of the synthesizer
[10:50:27] <Fermi> FYI. ;)
[10:51:32] <sbx> ah ok
[10:51:36] <sbx> A lizard invented the synthesizer?
[10:51:58] <Fermi> nooo. the lizard came after.
[10:51:59] <Darke> *nod* Godzilla.
[10:52:30] <Fermi> www.lzrd.net
[10:52:38] <Darke> Was one of his darstadly plants to destroy Toyko, but he managed to invent a cool musical instrument instead.
[10:53:05] <Fermi> We kinda went with a lizard 'cause of the server we use for hosting.
[10:53:39] <sbx> that darstadly Toyko lzrd!
[11:00:59] * Fermi dreams of the day when a trance remix of 'stones' exists
[11:02:28] <Darke> Mmmmf? Isn't there one already? Or was it a techno remix I saw? *ponder*
[11:02:34] <Fermi> I remember a john tesh remix in mod format
[11:02:42] <Fermi> But not a techno one...
[11:03:12] <sbx> john tesh remix?
[11:03:24] <sbx> heh
[11:03:24] <sbx> i have the techno mix
[11:03:34] <Fermi> For real?
[11:03:46] <Fermi> hmm lemme google for it
[11:04:14] <sbx> oh wait
[11:04:27] <sbx> its not techno what am i thinking
[11:04:41] <Darke> Hmm... phantom of the opera techno remix...
[11:04:41] <sbx> sorry
[11:05:40] <Fermi> OMG...how bizarre. http://www.djlizard.net/music.php
[11:06:16] <Fermi> Stones remix there
[11:06:46] <Darke> Ooooh... a Bubble Bobble remix!
[11:08:29] <sbx> nice link
[11:08:39] <sbx> the one i have is the mod
[11:08:55] <sbx> Fermi: probably what you remember
[11:09:05] <sbx> Stones 1994
[11:09:09] <Fermi> yeah
[11:09:13] <Fermi> the saxaphone
[11:09:34] <Fermi> Hey...this isn't a bad remix
[11:11:00] <Fermi> except fadeouts suck
[11:18:45] <Fermi> Is there a current site dedicated to ultima music?
[11:19:20] <Fermi> s/dedicated to/focused on/
[11:21:04] <Darke> Not that I know of.
[11:23:00] <Fermi> There ought to be. Stones should be enjoyed through the ages.
[11:23:20] <sbx> sounds familiar
[11:23:24] <sbx> i mean, a site dedicated to ultima music
[11:23:25] <sbx> i remember something like that
[11:23:29] <Fermi> Me too
[11:23:29] <sbx> the bards library maybe?
[11:24:03] <Fermi> Is it current?
[11:24:16] <Fermi> I haven't visited in years.
[11:24:56] <sbx> i didnt even know it was a site i was still trying to remember it :)
[11:25:19] <Fermi> It's a great midi archive.
[11:25:27] <sbx> looking it up, it says 1999
[11:25:53] <sbx> ok
[11:25:56] <sbx> i don't know about another
[11:31:04] <Fermi> I'm gonna e-mail that dj lizard to see if I can stream his stones remix
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[12:20:52] <Colourless> hi
[12:21:40] <sbx> Hi.
[12:26:55] <Colourless> re darke's work: IMO static_cast and reinterpret_cast are the reason why people HATE C++ :-)
[12:42:40] <sbx> ive been using (type)val casts still
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[13:15:03] <sbx> wb
[13:15:18] <Colourless> greetings evil one
[13:16:13] <Darke> Hi. Umm... eep?
[13:16:31] * Darke flees the wrath of the being that dislikes static_casts.
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[14:56:07] * sbx listens to Bubble Bobble Sadness Mix, featuring sound effects from the game.
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[15:43:56] * Darke hops off to sleep. Night!
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[15:44:38] <sbx> Cya!
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[21:51:13] <sbx> time to go
[21:51:15] * sbx waves.
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[23:00:53] <Zxcvb> anyone here?
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