#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 20 Jan 2002 (GMT)

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[00:02:05] <Kirben> First Pentagram snapshot is at http://exult.sourceforge.net/snapshots/Pentagram.exe up to you guys if you want to mention it on forum. The file extracter auto opens readme.txt at end so that might help newbies
[00:03:07] <Dominus> what did you bundle? Just the install files or the tools as well?
[00:03:53] <Kirben> all, viewers, tools and docs since tools are needed.
[00:04:32] <Dominus> I still think we should wait with snapshots until it works from just the U8 dir
[00:04:42] <Kirben> hmm readme doesn't mention how to extract NONFIXED.DAT
[00:04:56] <Dominus> true
[00:05:32] <Kirben> I agree but as this rate of interest would not surprise me if someone else put binaries online soon.
[00:06:10] <Dominus> yeah, we should avoid this as we can do it "properly"
[00:07:21] <Dominus> otoh no one put a sparkly spark online yet (i guess for a reason)
[00:19:38] <Kirben> easy to fix :)
[00:19:49] <Dominus> nooooooooooo
[00:20:13] <Kirben> just altered paths myself
[00:20:18] <Kirben> in source
[00:21:19] <Dominus> is that working on all the OS?
[00:22:40] <Kirben> no idea
[00:22:53] <Kirben> I think it would though
[00:23:20] <Kirben> only issue might be case of filenames but filenames are lowercase is osurce so it should not matter
[00:23:26] <Dominus> you/we should really get wjp to take a look at it and implement it
[00:23:36] <Kirben> Try http://exult.sourceforge.net/snapshots/Pentagram.exe
[00:23:51] <Kirben> nonfixed.dat still need ot be in main directory
[00:24:06] <Kirben> since I don't know where proper place would be for that one...
[00:24:18] <Dominus> yeah
[00:24:45] <Dominus> I guess pentagram needs a data dir as well now
[00:25:31] <Dominus> and a mechanism to extract nonfixed.dat on it's own and move it to data if not present... (but then again this is maybe a bit too early)
[00:27:08] <Dominus> Kirben: I guess you only made those changes to display, right? :-)
[00:27:20] <Kirben> yes for now
[00:27:51] <Kirben> let me fix others, they only reference u8pal.pal...
[00:28:14] <Dominus> As wjp said some days ago it is probably time for a design discussion by all people that are concerned about Pentagram
[00:36:47] <Kirben> check out snapshot again
[00:37:05] <Kirben> all three viewers should work
[00:39:25] <Kirben> hmm could right a small batch file to nonfixed.dat
[00:39:30] <Kirben> right=write
[00:40:20] <Dominus> yeah for a windows snapshot this would be the way to go for the moment
[00:40:28] <Dominus> could actually
[00:40:35] <Dominus> work fine now
[00:40:37] <Dominus> btw
[00:48:26] <Kirben> another new snapshot
[00:48:36] <Kirben> try it in fresh ultima 8 directory :)
[00:50:19] <Dominus> now where is my uc cd?
[00:50:32] <Dominus> ah here it is
[00:52:21] <Kirben> could just copy over current five Ultima 8 directories only if they are still in order
[00:52:58] <Dominus> yeah works
[00:53:32] <Kirben> cool, so should be safe to mention I guess
[00:54:09] <Kirben> Fingolfin: still around ?
[00:54:14] <Dominus> you mean the snapshot?
[00:54:19] <Kirben> yes
[00:55:40] <Fingolfin> hum
[00:56:29] <Kirben> Fingolfin: Do you tthink it would be safe to submit pentagram path changes to proper ultima 8 ?
[00:56:51] <Kirben> Fingolfin: is just the addition of static/ or sound/ before filensames
[00:57:17] <Fingolfin> Kirben: can you repeat that in Chinese?
[00:57:25] <Fingolfin> cause I guess I understand just the same =)
[00:57:27] <Kirben> ??
[00:57:41] <Dominus> Kirben: maybe this is an imposter
[00:57:42] <Fingolfin> you modified what to do what?
[00:58:03] <Fingolfin> you think I am, Dominus? :)
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[00:58:22] <Fingolfin> =)
[00:58:30] <Dominus> :-)
[00:58:46] <Kirben> Fingolfin: I just made Pentagram look the the correct locations for Ultima 8 files, no moving around files anymore.
[00:58:56] <Fingolfin> what is "correct" in this case?
[00:59:19] <Fingolfin> just ... be ... a ... bit ... more ... specific =)
[00:59:28] <Fingolfin> like, *what exactly* did you change?
[00:59:46] <Kirben> example
[00:59:51] <Kirben> Flex shapes("u8shapes.flx");
[00:59:52] <Kirben> Flex shapes("static/u8shapes.flx");
[01:00:09] <Kirben> FILE *palfile = fopen("u8pal.pal", "rb");
[01:00:10] <Kirben> FILE *palfile = fopen("static/u8pal.pal", "rb");
[01:01:01] <Kirben> is that specific enough ?
[01:01:28] <Fingolfin> ah ok
[01:01:48] <Fingolfin> hm, I don't think you should submit that just yet, at least I wouldn't like it to much
[01:02:01] <Fingolfin> the "correct" place to look, after all, should be determined by a config file
[01:02:26] <Fingolfin> considering the load of work Patrick put into conf recently, I'd assume it shouldn't be hard to add such a thing to pentagram
[01:06:34] <Kirben> ok
[01:10:11] <Kirben> in meantime I will create private patch for snapshots
[01:34:34] <Fingolfin> thx
[01:34:43] <Fingolfin> ww
[01:35:00] <Fingolfin> Kirben: oh in any case, that's just my opinion of course :)
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[01:49:40] <EazyCheez> Hello guyzzzz
[01:49:47] <Dominus> hi
[01:50:37] <EazyCheez> Could you guys consider listing the CVS Snapshot in your Files section on your summary page? I'd like to attach a SourceForge e-mail monitor to it :) (yes I love spam especially when it's about stuff I like ;) )
[01:51:08] <Dominus> nope
[01:51:20] <Dominus> a release takes up a lot of time
[01:51:40] <EazyCheez> well I guess that's ok... I can monitor the release then :)
[01:51:48] <Dominus> and having them on our files section on the sf pages would be too time consuming
[01:52:08] <Dominus> there are free services however that monitor changes of websites
[01:52:25] <Dominus> you could have it monitor the snapshot page
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[01:53:55] * Darke bows. "Hello all. On early/late for a change are we?" <grin>
[01:53:59] <Dominus> hi
[01:59:12] * Fingolfin yawn
[02:00:08] * Darke yawns. "Stop that. I've only been awake for two hours." <grin>
[02:03:49] <Fingolfin> "T'is quite late hereabout. My energies dwindle, drained by the gigantic efforts to upkeep the communication...and ye olde crystal ball is showing cracks already"
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[02:36:10] <Dominus> going as well
[02:36:14] <Dominus> good night
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[03:40:22] <Darke> Just for reference, relating to the pentagram configuration file, I just added a /config/disk/game/pagan/path key to exult.cfg, set to the appropriate directory for ucxt's handling... but then again Pentagram Is Not Exult(tm). <grin>
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[07:42:27] <Amy> Wheee.
[07:45:57] * Darke always wonders why Amy is so... exited. <grin>
[07:53:15] <Amy> Bored, actually.,
[08:49:37] * Darke thinks you should start coding on exult/pentagram. You'll _never_ be bored then. Annoyed and/of frustrated perhaps, but never bored. <grin>
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[10:12:33] <Darke> Hi Wumpus. <bow>
[10:13:14] * Wumpus bows to the darke bunny
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[11:32:26] <Amy> Yawn.
[11:42:24] * Darke slips another carrot into Amy's mouth as she yawns.
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[11:42:31] <Colourless> hi
[11:42:38] * Darke bows, "Hi Colourless."
[11:44:15] <Wumpus> oh nifty, dvisvga works from inside screen and just finds a free virtual console to use... yum :)
[11:44:17] <Wumpus> ahem
[11:44:18] <Wumpus> :)
[11:44:23] * Wumpus likes dvisvga, so nyer :)
[11:44:26] <Wumpus> `lo colourless
[11:48:14] * Darke makes no comment on Wumpus's dvisvga fetish...
[11:48:50] <Wumpus> yes you do
[11:50:34] * Darke does, however, think having a dvisvga fetish is better then having a windows fetish. OTOP, there are a lot of other fetishes that are far more... interesting. <innocentwiggle>
[11:51:09] <Wumpus> like rabbit fettishes?
[11:51:22] * Darke looks innocent.
[11:55:37] * Darke thinks, that if one were a rabbit, having a rabbit fettish would be entirely appropriate. Not that he is admitting to having one... <innocentwiggle>
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[12:08:55] <Fingolfin> mornin
[12:08:57] <Fingolfin> err, midday
[12:08:58] <Fingolfin> whatever :)
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[12:09:12] <Wumpus> ehehe :) morning is a state of mind
[12:09:15] <Wumpus> or some such BS :P
[12:09:18] <Darke> Goodday? <grin> In any event, greetings to you.
[12:09:19] <Colourless> hi
[12:09:22] <Wumpus> and hello :)
[12:09:56] <Fingolfin> so, would it be possible to add a simple config file to pentagram?
[12:10:04] <Fingolfin> considering darke messed around with the code a lot I mean =)
[12:10:12] <Fingolfin> err, Patrick I mean :)
[12:10:25] * Fingolfin didn't want to break any role playing behaviour...
[12:11:20] <Colourless> config should work fine in pentagram
[12:11:32] <Darke> In which case, I should probably commit as 'Darke' then, since I tend to spend all my coding time whilst I'm on here. <grin>
[12:11:47] <Fingolfin> he
[12:12:01] <Fingolfin> ok, the thing is, at least for the unix version of pentagram, I made this fancy makefile
[12:12:11] <Fingolfin> I should look into extending it for multi-dir support
[12:12:13] <Darke> Config shouldn't have any problems. I haven't really fiddled with any 'core' bits.
[12:12:20] <Colourless> the changes patrick made should be copied into the common config
[12:12:26] <Fingolfin> also, I wonder if it would be possible to unify it with the win32 or cygwin makefiles...
[12:12:31] <Fingolfin> yes, definitly
[12:12:43] <Fingolfin> and in fact, how about changing exult to use common now, too?
[12:12:59] <Colourless> well, it's got to be done sometime
[12:13:28] * Fingolfin looks at weekly SF stats - graph goes till 17th, table till 18th, project overview is for the 19th and today we've got the 20th
[12:13:40] <Darke> What's in common currently, conf/ and files/? IIRC both have been modified recently, and will have to be updated.
[12:13:47] <Fingolfin> yeah
[12:13:52] <Kirben> interesting new on mailing list
[12:14:02] <Colourless> there is audio, files, config and 'headers'
[12:14:07] <Fingolfin> before we do this replacment, though, we have to inform all
[12:14:16] <Fingolfin> because it will probably require a re-checkout I fear... hm
[12:14:26] <Colourless> yeah it will require a re-checkout
[12:14:50] <Wumpus> hmm, interesting, mutt wasn't marking the exlt folder as having new stuff
[12:15:09] <Wumpus> (and there were 20+ new things, hmphm)
[12:15:44] <Darke> New checkout? Hmm... that might require a bit of jugging timing.
[12:16:28] <Fingolfin> yeah, that's why I say - first announce it on the ML
[12:16:57] <Colourless> we should probably have a code freeze for a day
[12:17:10] <Wumpus> why would that be necessary? (a new checkout?)
[12:17:16] <Fingolfin> like say: "unless somebody voices concerns, we'll do this around XY:00 GMT, be prepared to make a new checkout then". or maybe let's announce it now but do it in a couple of days?
[12:17:19] <Fingolfin> yes
[12:17:28] <Fingolfin> Wumpus: cause we change the CVS structure
[12:17:34] <Wumpus> oh :)
[12:17:38] <Fingolfin> some code gets moved to a common module
[12:17:44] * Wumpus nods
[12:18:01] * Wumpus just thought he remembered you being dead against that, but hehe :)
[12:18:14] <Wumpus> (might have been someone else, or somewhere else, or me just being confused, beh)
[12:19:28] <Darke> Fingolfin: (announce now, wait a day or two) That makes sense. Since we're going to all the effort, is there anything else we should shift to common as well?
[12:19:44] <Fingolfin> hm
[12:19:50] <Fingolfin> not right now
[12:20:14] <Fingolfin> the thing is, some stuff IMHO, while it exists in exult, shouldn't be used in pentagram, but rather be rewritten from scratch in a cleaner fashion
[12:20:29] * Darke nods. Agreed.
[12:21:35] <Colourless> yeah, i very much agree with that.
[12:22:05] <Fingolfin> good, wjp does, too
[12:22:23] <Fingolfin> we talked about it, and thought it might be good to perform a "design discussion" on pentagram soon
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[12:23:35] <^miguel^-> Hi
[12:23:50] * Darke bows. "Hi."
[12:24:31] <Colourless> hi
[12:25:09] * Darke probably would shuffle ucxt into the common module, except it currently relies on two files in usecode/ that are u7 specific.
[12:25:22] <Colourless> fingolfin: i was thinking about that earlier today. We use out knowledge of what was don't 'badly' in Exult, and do them properly in pentagram
[12:25:30] <Colourless> s/don't/done/
[12:25:35] <Fingolfin> exact!
[12:25:42] <Fingolfin> like Game_window :)
[12:25:56] <Fingolfin> I also have some nice ideas for user input handling, e.g. how Mouse events are handled
[12:25:59] <Colourless> and using pointers for objects!
[12:26:03] <Fingolfin> in a more OO way, that simplifies code
[12:26:07] <Fingolfin> uah, yeah
[12:26:13] <Colourless> using an object ref is a better idea
[12:26:15] <Fingolfin> ok, for some things, object pointers are OK
[12:26:16] <Fingolfin> yeah
[12:26:21] <Fingolfin> in general, you are right
[12:26:56] <Colourless> another thing is design the engine so we could do smooth scrolling and interpolation from the start.
[12:27:07] * Darke thinks a few extra 'const's couldn't hurt either. <grin>
[12:28:37] <Fingolfin> yeah to both
[12:29:09] <Fingolfin> some sort of seperation between the drawing engine and the game enginge would be nice, too
[12:29:29] <Fingolfin> and from the start consider scaling support, too etc.
[12:29:58] <Colourless> yeah
[12:30:21] <Colourless> OMG, Pentagram is actually starting to sound a bit like a software engineering project :-)
[12:30:24] <Fingolfin> also, the draw manager could manage a list of "dirty rects", which could be used to speed up mouse cursor drawing (replacing my hack) and opaque gump movement
[12:30:29] <Wumpus> eek
[12:30:29] <Fingolfin> muwahaha =)
[12:30:30] <Wumpus> noooo!
[12:30:31] <Wumpus> :)
[12:31:18] <Darke> Colourless: <gasp> What? You say we've actually turned somewhat 'professional'? <boggle>
[12:31:51] <^miguel^-> Sorry, but what Pentagram is?
[12:32:05] <Wumpus> ... just a rumour ;-p
[12:32:22] <Colourless> we can't be professional, we are still not getting paid!
[12:32:22] <Colourless> i want my share of the $ 3 Million from Exult :-)
[12:32:24] <Wumpus> Nothing to see here... move right along :-)
[12:32:36] <Darke> miguel: TINP!
[12:33:00] * Fingolfin is now looking in getting XFree86 to build on his machine
[12:33:00] <Wumpus> you cannot bend the pentagram?
[12:33:02] <Fingolfin> he
[12:33:24] <Fingolfin> Colourless: indeed, but maybe we can find sponsos this time :)
[12:33:39] <Fingolfin> how much would Coca Cola pay to get an Avatar wearing a Coke shirt? =)
[12:33:47] <Wumpus> hehe
[12:33:48] <Colourless> heh
[12:34:15] * Darke would rather not ask. <grin>
[12:35:01] <Colourless> maybe we'd start a trend with advertising in games :-)
[12:35:26] <Darke> Colourless: Too late. <grin> Been done.
[12:35:46] <Colourless> yeah, i know, but not in any really invasive manner :-)
[12:36:52] <Darke> You can be on the 'marketing' team then. I'm just a coder. <grin>
[12:36:59] <Colourless> the main character wearing a coke shirt in an environment where it really doesn't fit. :-)
[12:37:34] <Colourless> of course it could fit in with the story. everyone in pagan does comment on how strangely the avatar does dress :-)
[12:37:46] <Wumpus> hehe
[12:38:07] * Wumpus played pagan through a grand total of once... hmm... definitely don't know it backwards :P
[12:38:21] * Darke snickers.
[12:38:28] <Colourless> you must also think that what the avatar wore in Pagan wasn't what he was wearing at the end of SI.
[12:38:54] <Wumpus> he'd be a hell of alot better off if it were :) mind you, you'd have difficulty swimming in that armour, presumably
[12:39:18] <Colourless> well, he has real problems in that armour :-)
[12:39:28] <Wumpus> (or does he land on the beach? i can't remember)
[12:39:34] <Wumpus> colourless- depends on what he wants to do :)
[12:40:07] <Colourless> Devon says he pulled the avatar in with his nets and the avatar was drowning
[12:40:15] <Fingolfin> yeah
[12:40:30] <Wumpus> he never did learn to swim ;-p
[12:40:38] <Colourless> until Ultima 9
[12:40:48] <Wumpus> I wouldn't knwo about that... yet: )
[12:40:48] <Colourless> where it worked quite badly sometimes
[12:41:16] <Colourless> constantly got stuck on walls when swimming in dungones
[12:41:23] <Colourless> dungeons even
[12:43:07] * Darke doesn't remember even leaving the avatar's house in u9.
[12:44:17] <Fingolfin> hehe
[12:46:47] <Darke> When you can't get the 'top of the line' video card at the time (about 12 months ago), to give you more then 10 frames per second at 800x600... umm... your game has _problems_. Running it at a lower resolution was too painful, so I just stopped playing it. Maybe when the GeForce4s come out I'll pick it up again and try to finish it. <grin>
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[12:53:56] <Wumpus> *blink* it was still ahrd to run on stuff thats only a year old now? eww
[12:55:12] * Wumpus wanders off to bed
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[12:55:19] <Darke> Admittedly, it would probably have proven to be a 'fine' playing experience at 640x480. But that gets rather... blocky on my monitor, and I honestly couldn't be bothered.
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[14:26:52] <Colourless> oh no. where is everyone going!
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[15:04:05] <Colourless> another person gone :-)
[15:04:43] <mndncr> im sitll here .. just wandering around
[15:05:18] <Colourless> :-)
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[16:10:00] * Colourless raises an eyebrow
[16:10:02] <Colourless> having fun?
[16:10:30] <mndncr> just fixing something
[16:10:48] <mndncr> ne script has update .. messed up colors .. now they fixed ;)
[16:10:51] <mndncr> new
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[18:16:56] <Colourless> hi
[18:17:49] <Fingolfin> hi
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[21:23:26] <wjp> hi
[21:23:30] <Colourless> hi
[21:23:57] <wjp> hm, fnames.h? sounds useful :-)
[21:24:06] <Colourless> yeah it does :-)
[21:24:17] <Colourless> i put all of the files in there
[21:24:31] <Colourless> it's just a matter of someone updating everything to use it
[21:24:57] * Colourless tells lies, not every file was included
[21:25:12] <wjp> ooh, d'n'd in windows... nice
[21:25:33] <Colourless> yeah
[21:29:52] <Fingolfin> hi
[21:29:52] <Fingolfin> hm
[21:29:52] <Fingolfin> so, we are still stuck in the 8.3 thinking, aren't we?
[21:29:53] <Fingolfin> *cough*
[21:30:19] <wjp> you mean 'fnames.h' instread of 'filenames.h'?
[21:30:24] <wjp> s/str/st/
[21:30:25] <Colourless> hey, it's less characters to type :-)
[21:30:46] <Fingolfin> phft
[21:31:00] <Colourless> plus, that is what the file was called in Exult
[21:31:09] <Fingolfin> if you were one of my CS I students, I'd know explain to you that using a verbose name, while costing you some more typing efforts, often pays off in the end =)
[21:31:10] <wjp> that's no valid argument
[21:31:16] <Fingolfin> s/know/now/
[21:31:18] <wjp> (exult filename, I mean)
[21:32:09] <Colourless> well if people don't like it, people can change it :-P
[21:33:27] * wjp changes it ;-)
[21:33:53] <wjp> hm, filenames.h? u8files.h? u8filenames.h?
[21:34:13] <Colourless> ultima8filenames.h :-)
[21:34:26] * wjp inserts 'pagan' in there somewhere :-)
[21:34:26] <Colourless> or perhape Ultima8FileNames.h :-)
[21:34:45] <Colourless> heh
[21:35:13] <Fingolfin> well
[21:35:30] <Fingolfin> it contains a list of constants for the various file names used by U8/Pagan, yes?
[21:35:48] <Fingolfin> filenames.h sounds good. Or FileNamesMap.h =)
[21:36:24] * wjp LOLs at todays userfriendly
[21:42:54] --> blackbird has joined #exult
[21:43:18] <wjp> hi
[21:43:26] <Colourless> hi
[21:43:26] <blackbird> greets wjp
[21:43:35] <blackbird> lord colourless :-)
[21:43:50] <blackbird> how goes pentagram, gentlemen?
[21:45:13] <wjp> ok, I guess :-)
[21:46:34] <blackbird> I was surprised to learn that you guys were working on U8 considering negative gaming opinion on it. I always figured you would move on to U6
[21:47:59] <wjp> does U6 have anything remotely usecode-ish?
[21:48:38] <blackbird> They didn't use usecode? I always thought they did... hmmm
[21:50:30] <blackbird> I always liked the U8 graphics and interface, just not the game content itself. I suppose if it can be made somewhat in Exult's mould, it would kick ass
[21:50:54] <Colourless> there's only so much that can be done to change u8
[21:51:05] <blackbird> Since usecode is the commonality, does that mean U9 isn't far behind? :-) <joke>
[21:51:46] <Colourless> well, considering that the actual programming team for U9 couldn't get things right, what makes you think we could :-)
[21:52:00] <blackbird> What would really be cool is a blending of Exult with U8 graphics and sound
[21:53:50] <blackbird> Colourless: cuz the Exult Team is the best coding company/cooperative on the planet, that's why!
[21:54:16] <blackbird> It's too bad you guys can't actually claim that $3 million paycheck
[22:02:27] <-- blackbird has left IRC ("Client Exiting")
[22:16:33] * wjp grins at 'mndcnr's exit message (An error? Impossible! My modem is error correcting.)
[22:16:58] <Colourless> :-)
[22:17:07] * wjp finished catching up with logs
[22:23:21] <wjp> hm, I guess first things to do now would be making pentagram somewhat more user-friendly
[22:24:00] <wjp> using pentagram.cfg file, reading u8save.000
[22:24:17] <Colourless> yeah
[22:24:36] <wjp> a Savegame class or a SaveFlex class or something might be nice
[22:25:06] <Colourless> yeah probably.
[22:25:51] <Colourless> should pentagram be designed without a gamedat dir?
[22:26:58] <Colourless> the savegame file and data could be kept entirely in memory
[22:27:03] <wjp> I say yes
[22:27:13] <wjp> s/I/I'd/
[22:28:06] <wjp> maybe do an autosave on changing maps to compensate for the added chance of data-loss
[22:29:33] <Colourless> yeah. that's a good idea
[22:30:28] <wjp> (not that that's really something to worry about this soon :-) )
[22:31:53] <Colourless> no, not really
[22:33:40] <Colourless> we'll need to talk about this more at another time
[22:33:52] <wjp> yeah, we do. When I have some more time :-)
[22:33:59] <wjp> (and a few hours earlier, I guess :-) )
[22:34:17] <Colourless> there are numerous design considerations that need to be considered with the save game class
[22:35:16] <wjp> well, if we don't use a gamedat-based system, we can write a completely separate class for u8save.000
[22:35:36] <Colourless> yeah we could. just put it into a format we want
[22:35:39] <wjp> (SaveFlex, or something)
[22:35:55] <wjp> maybe even a subclass of Flex
[22:36:22] <Colourless> u8save.000 isn't a flex though
[22:36:34] <wjp> no, but it's a container file too
[22:36:52] <wjp> ok, on second thought it isn't really suited for a subclass
[22:40:04] <wjp> *sigh* I should really try to write out a couple of homework exercises tonight
[22:44:53] <Fingolfin> he
[22:45:05] <Fingolfin> btw, seems I will spend my year abroad in Eindhoven... hm
[22:45:18] <Fingolfin> and we should arrange a PDD maybe on the ML ?
[22:45:23] <wjp> a who?
[22:45:28] <Fingolfin> PDD = Pentagram Design Discussion =)
[22:45:31] <wjp> ah
[22:45:49] <wjp> Eindhoven... hm, that's not really far from here :-)
[22:46:01] <wjp> (not that _anything_ is really far from _anywhere_ in the netherlands... :-) )
[22:46:26] * wjp has been at the TUE quite a number of times
[22:46:55] <wjp> (masterclasses, prelude to the international math. olympiad, stuff like that)
[22:48:27] <wjp> anyway, a PDD sounds good
[22:55:04] <Fingolfin> TUE isn't that far from here, either, only 3 or so hours driver I'd say
[22:55:24] <Fingolfin> so email to ML on PDD ? I doubt that all will have time during the same... erhm, time, though :)
[22:59:46] <wjp> we'd better mention a few concrete topics in that mail
[23:08:40] <Fingolfin> yes
[23:08:45] <Fingolfin> game engine
[23:08:49] <Fingolfin> how to organize actors
[23:09:07] <Fingolfin> handling user input -> I am thinking about a chain of event handlers, and a nice C++ class system for this
[23:09:41] <Fingolfin> drawing, how to do it
[23:09:48] <Fingolfin> pfff, whatever, can't think straight now =)
[23:10:48] <wjp> yeah, me neither :/
[23:10:52] <wjp> busy day today
[23:11:10] <wjp> writing out proofs properly isn't really going well either :-(
[23:17:58] <Fingolfin> sigh I know what you mean
[23:34:03] <wjp> hm, "River of Blue Fire" is otherland nr. 2, right?
[23:36:23] * wjp is rather annoyed at the way-too-sudden ending of part 1 :-)
[23:36:27] <wjp> (finished it last night)
[23:38:41] <Fingolfin> yeah =)
[23:38:52] * wjp orders part 2, 3 and 4, while he's at it...
[23:39:18] <wjp> knowing my luck, they'll probably deliver them in reverse order :/
[23:40:55] <Fingolfin> any other book I should read?
[23:40:57] <Fingolfin> hehe
[23:41:13] * Fingolfin needs to spend another 11 Euro =)
[23:41:18] <wjp> don't know... I generally get the books I should read from you guys, not the other way around :-)
[23:42:21] * wjp looks at books... Eddings (Belgariad), Jordan (WoT), Goodkind (SoT), Williams (Otherland)
[23:42:38] <Colourless> i think i should be going
[23:42:39] <Fingolfin> but I got SoT from you!
[23:42:47] <wjp> Colourless: night
[23:42:49] <Fingolfin> Maybe I should start WoT ? :)
[23:42:52] <Fingolfin> Colourless: night
[23:42:52] <Colourless> cya
[23:42:55] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("[10:12]")
[23:43:03] <wjp> hm, you did? oh.. right... I got that from someone at work
[23:43:07] * Fingolfin goes looking for first part of WoT
[23:43:14] <wjp> Eye of the World
[23:43:26] <wjp> part 1 of9 so far
[23:44:13] <Fingolfin> now which of the three editions should I get? :)
[23:44:36] <Fingolfin> the cheapeast(from Tor), the newest (2002, Starcape Books) or the oldes (1990) ? :)
[23:44:57] * wjp looks at his covers...
[23:45:00] <wjp> hmm, quite a diverse lot
[23:45:27] <wjp> I have the 1st 3 from Orbit, the 3 after that from Tor, and the last 3 from Orbit again
[23:45:47] * wjp notices Orbit changed its logo between 8 and 9
[23:46:01] <Fingolfin> oh, you mean, there are even more versions? sigh
[23:46:38] <wjp> the publishers might be known by different names on some sites
[23:46:39] <Fingolfin> orbit one is even more expansive
[23:46:59] <wjp> orbit was the one the local bookstore had. (in the case of 9)
[23:47:13] <wjp> oh, and 8 too
[23:47:22] <Fingolfin> the cheapeast, from Tor, is less then 5 , but it looks cheap, which I don't like
[23:47:24] <Fingolfin> sur
[23:47:51] * wjp notices a weird little square after the 5
[23:48:01] <Fingolfin> that's an Euro sign for me =)
[23:48:02] <wjp> maybe I should check up on euro signs in my fonts :-)
[23:48:08] <wjp> yeah, I thought as much :-)
[23:48:22] <Fingolfin> maybe my IRC client sends a bad ascii code, though... errhm.. "ASCII" ? for euro? ugh
[23:55:44] <Amy> It depends on the font.
[23:55:59] <wjp> galeon displays it correctly on a test page I found somewhere
[23:56:12] <Amy> Yeah, but it still depends on the font. =>
[23:56:20] <wjp> yeah, I know :-)
[23:57:21] <wjp> the "Ascii Chart" (probably misnamed) in xchat doesn't seem to show it anywyere
[23:57:42] * wjp wonders what font xchat uses
[23:59:22] <wjp> Fingolfin: could you type a euro sign again?
[23:59:36] <Fingolfin> here ya go:
[23:59:40] <wjp> hmm
[23:59:51] <wjp> what's this "" for you?