#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 20 Sep 2004 (GMT)

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[01:24:03] <Baastuul> Hi, claviola.
[01:24:17] <claviola> Greetings
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[03:47:27] <servus> Texturing, texturing, texturing...
[03:55:22] <sbx> problems?
[04:01:45] <servus> Think I've got it almost figured out, hope...
[04:01:55] <servus> It works in theory :-)
[04:08:34] <sbx> someone (you) will have to make cloud models
[04:08:49] <sbx> or autogenerate them
[04:10:22] <servus> Yeah but I'm still working on simple geometry first...
[04:10:26] <servus> It works in theory, darnit!
[04:23:27] <sbx> But it works now right?
[04:23:54] <sbx> *grumble* *grumble*
[04:35:38] <servus> :-)
[04:35:52] <servus> After I get things working, I need to make it fast.
[04:36:14] <servus> Because, well... Exult is slow enough in 2D with a point scaler :-)
[04:36:47] <sbx> is it a problem with the u7 data?
[04:38:47] <servus> Oh I don't know. I'm not even sure how workable it'll be without some eventual intervention (creating new data files of some sort)
[04:43:16] <sbx> is it the non top-left origins?
[04:48:13] <servus> Think I have that figured out
[04:48:20] <servus> Think I have everything figured out, it just keeps skewing :-)
[04:51:10] <sbx> I was thinking it might be easier if you set the camera so that it looks like an isometric rpg.
[04:51:30] <sbx> And you only have to rotate the shapes 45degrees then.
[04:54:22] <sbx> and then subsequent transforms seem simpler to me (because the gfx are already at a "realistic" perspective)
[04:55:48] <servus> Yeah, I'll work on camera stuff once I get the textures working in a way I'm comfortable with :-)
[04:56:18] <sbx> or you can do both if your camera rotation is "smooth" (rather than jumping between four positions)
[04:56:41] <servus> I don't want to lock the camera that much at all.
[04:56:41] <sbx> ok
[04:56:41] <sbx> if you had a domain name all this time why have we been using numbers?
[04:56:52] <servus> I don't like the domain name:-)
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[04:57:35] <servus> Hi bunny.
[05:05:23] <servus> Hmm, I need an Exult graphics guy to tell me what I'm doing wrong :-)
[05:38:12] <servus> Hmm
[05:38:24] <servus> Why is NoojusVrist trying to 'leet h4x0r' me?
[05:39:08] <Sheng_Gradilla> because
[05:39:13] <servus> Anyway, even more distressing, Lord British cast Armageddon, and then he told me, quite plainly, that "I'll show you my obese eruption if you show me yours". I was shocked to say the least.
[05:42:31] <sbx> Hmm.
[05:43:22] <sbx> Your imperialistic offended his pedantic sense of philanthropy, and he affected to orgasmic proportions.
[05:43:43] <sbx> Oink.
[05:51:06] <servus> Excuse me sir, can you lend me a pagan lawyer? I seem to be all out of Christian scientists.
[06:01:00] <servus> Hmm, so shape frames that are RLE are more likely to be perspective and not square?
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[06:26:42] <sbx> servus: how will mountains look?
[06:35:28] <servus> Mountains do look fine.
[06:35:35] <servus> Just like you'd expect them to
[06:35:50] <servus> I really want to fix this texturing up enough to get more impressive screenshots... I'm very close to it
[06:37:28] <sbx> oh good
[06:46:44] <servus> That is 'more', being a modifier to impressive, rather than a quantitative measure -- I want to create a more-impressive screenshot, than to create more screenshots that are impressive. That'd be just silly :-)
[06:47:48] <sbx> but I want taller mountains too
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[06:51:46] <servus> Heh, let's make it work, then we can make it better :-)
[06:53:01] <Fl00der> hi
[06:53:55] <sbx> hi
[07:04:41] <sbx> brb?
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[07:30:31] <servus> Darn, Exult Studio doesn't know how to do what I want to do, either :-(
[07:31:16] <servus> This should be a trivial thing, guess I'm just still confused by some of how Exult does things... maybe I'm tired, maybe both. I'll figure it out later :-(
[07:32:03] <sbx> :-( :-| :-)
[07:32:46] <sbx> !@#$
[07:32:51] <Fl00der> :P
[07:32:51] <sbx> i missed aqua teen hunger force
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[07:57:38] <servus> Hmm, why can't I edit shapes in the shape browser. I just want to see what shape origins really mean...
[08:09:23] <sbx> did you load them in gimp?
[08:20:05] <servus> No, the exult studio refuses to do anything useful... lemme see..
[08:20:31] <sbx> with the gimp shp plugin
[08:21:15] <servus> Right.... i did an expack on shapes.vga
[08:21:34] <servus> Now I'm treating the resulting files as SHPs, guessing which palette to use. Fun :-)
[08:23:52] <sbx> also ES saves shapes as PNG but I'm not sure if that saves the origin
[08:24:05] <servus> Hmm, looks like the files I extracted from SHAPES.VGA have everything shoved to the top-left of the image, like you'd expect...
[08:24:20] <servus> Nah, Exult Studio won't do anything shape-ish at all for me.
[08:24:29] <sbx> the gimp plugin puts guiderules where the origin is
[08:24:32] <servus> No editing, no exporting, etc.
[08:25:17] <servus> Ah, okay.
[08:26:55] <servus> It has two guides... not sure which means what.
[08:27:22] <servus> All I really need is the top-left, anyway, think I see things more clearly now, though.
[08:27:27] <sbx> x and y axis where they cross is the origin
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[08:53:29] <sbx> well
[08:53:32] <sbx> cya
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[10:51:49] <servus> I have textures all sussed out :-)
[11:01:03] <Lord_Nightmare> this i gotta see
[11:18:54] <servus> One sec should get a good screenshot :-)
[11:19:07] <servus> Still have some stuff broken
[11:19:24] <servus> I'm so tired that my math has turned to guessing.
[11:21:20] * Lord_Nightmare made a fun 'educated guess' interpolator
[11:23:36] <servus> I'm only painting top, south, and east sides right now.
[11:23:41] <servus> Rest should be a snaparoo.
[11:23:56] <servus>
[11:24:47] <servus> Really gotta fix that camera angle that I use for screenshots...
[11:24:47] <wjp> not bad :-)
[11:24:56] <servus> Thanks, wjp, it's getting better :-)
[11:24:59] <Lord_Nightmare> thats too cool for words
[11:27:22] <servus> Trees look better that I expected.
[11:27:45] <servus> Lampposts are *much* better, everything will need a lot of tweaking, of course...
[11:27:46] <Lord_Nightmare> I'd still do a texture stretch and * them
[11:27:53] <Lord_Nightmare> trees i mean
[11:28:43] <Colourless> wow... great shot
[11:29:02] <Colourless> impressive to say the least
[11:30:20] <servus> OK, got west and north walls working.
[11:30:47] <servus> Some west walls are blacked out because I'm using the east walls as wests, and some east walls were never expected to be seen...
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[11:40:01] <servus> last shot for tonight, 'night. I'll make it look better later.
[11:40:13] <Lord_Nightmare> ok g'night
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[11:54:48] <Krexx> hi all
[12:01:07] <Fl00der> hi
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[12:11:02] <servus> OK OK I can't sleep, but this one's neat
[12:11:07] <servus> Now, shower, sleep, really!
[12:15:12] <Krexx> hehe
[12:15:36] <Krexx> COOL!
[12:17:25] <Fl00der> WOW
[12:17:42] <Fl00der> Servus: Nice Work \o/
[12:18:20] <Krexx> \/
[12:20:20] <Fl00der> Krexx: what are those two dots above your head? :P
[12:20:47] <Krexx> don't know :p
[12:21:18] <Fl00der> hehe
[12:21:21] <Krexx> heh
[12:21:56] <Krexx> \/
[12:22:20] <Fl00der> ah, this one is easy, you are wearing hat :P
[12:23:05] <Krexx> yeahh
[12:23:07] <Krexx> heheh
[12:23:53] <Krexx> \/
[12:24:08] <Fl00der> hehe
[12:24:16] <Krexx> don't you have all of these special chars ?
[12:24:51] <Fl00der> dunno
[12:24:51] <Krexx> I have spanish keyboard
[12:25:23] <Fl00der> I have european :P
[12:25:36] <Krexx> where r u from?
[12:26:07] <Fl00der> Finland
[12:26:32] <Krexx> do you use linux, aren't you? :p
[12:26:38] <Fl00der> nope :P
[12:26:48] <Krexx> oops
[12:26:55] <Fl00der> what? :P
[12:27:32] <Krexx> isn't Linus Torvalds from Finland?
[12:27:44] <Krexx> don't remember
[12:28:09] <Fl00der> yea
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[13:47:32] <Slain> hi, is anyone here?
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[13:48:17] <Fl00der> hi
[13:48:57] <Slain> :)
[13:49:20] <Slain> in ultima7 black gate
[13:49:29] <Slain> what does the golden/white halo do in the paperdoll?
[13:51:09] <Fl00der> sorry, don't know
[13:51:28] <Slain> k
[13:51:30] <Colourless> protect mode
[13:51:46] <Colourless> it is which party member the rest of the party will try to protect
[13:52:00] <Slain> ooh ok
[13:52:01] <Fl00der> ah
[13:52:02] <Fl00der> that one
[13:52:11] <Fl00der> I knew that :P
[13:52:13] <Slain> i thought it had sumthing to do with mana regeneration :\
[13:53:25] <Slain> thx
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[17:53:06] * sbx|afk exults!
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[19:44:34] <Dominus> hi
[19:44:40] <Dominus> servus: your Exult-3d looks fun
[19:45:15] * sbx agrees!
[19:47:25] <Krexx> there's some new screenshot?
[19:47:39] <sbx> what's the last one you saw?
[19:47:45] <Krexx> #11
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[19:47:57] <sbx> oops
[19:48:01] <sbx> 11 is the last one I saw
[19:48:08] <Krexx> ok
[19:49:30] <Dominus> but as I'm currently really trying to finish U9 it eerily reminds me of that
[19:49:41] <servus> Noooo! Not that!
[19:49:50] <Dominus> sorry :-)
[19:50:01] <sbx> hmm
[19:50:01] <servus> Nah I liked U9 more than anyone else :-)
[19:50:08] <sbx> it might not be a bad thing
[19:50:13] <sbx> we can see what ultima should really be like in 3d
[19:50:18] <sbx> with a huge world
[19:50:36] <Dominus> I really have to say that U9 is much fun walking around
[19:51:06] <Dominus> I finished it when it came out and tried to do so again with the dialog patch but always got side-tracked
[19:51:11] <servus> Well I've got two roads to go down now: Keep tricky objects as sprites and lock the camera into a position that resemble the old game, or remake tricky objects as 3D models and allow for full camera freedom.
[19:51:28] <Dominus> remake is my vote
[19:52:08] <Dominus> servus: are you on the exult mailing list?
[19:52:30] <Krexx> yes, I think that remaking the objects is the best option
[19:52:32] <servus> Nope.
[19:52:55] <Dominus> servus: from Jeff today:
[19:52:57] <Dominus> I looked at the screen shots that Servus posted on IRC (which I still
[19:52:57] <Dominus> can't get to). Pretty cool. But how are those possible from U7's 2D
[19:52:57] <Dominus> shapes?
[19:54:02] <sbx> servus: it looks like you wrapped the npc textures around the bounding boxes... that's not desirable but it looks a lot better in #11
[19:54:10] <Dominus> (that's all in the mail, btw)
[19:54:47] <servus> sbx, NPCs do not work as well as geometry that is supposed to be rectangular. I'm still undecided about how to properly handle NPCs and trees and things like that.
[19:55:11] <sbx> in the 4 locked views it should look ok
[19:55:23] <sbx> but you have to skew them violently for anything else right?
[19:55:52] <servus> The skewing problem is systemic of some 6:00AM math. It'll get better.
[19:56:05] <sbx> of course this is only for the 4-frame objects
[19:56:09] <sbx> some things dont even have that
[19:57:03] <Dominus> (or may have 4-frames but not all portraying the same item :-))
[19:57:04] <sbx> if you do anything in 3D models wont you have to remake the whole thing?
[19:57:08] <sbx> or it will look odd
[19:57:24] <servus> The way I use the 2D shapes for 3D faces is pretty simple. My first Ultima7 map viewer represented objects by their bounding boxes (from the TFA), instead of by just putting the sprites down. Since I know how to make a 2D bounding box that shows the outline of an object, I know the points on the 2D shape that represent where the texture for the different faces (top,south,east,etc) start and stop. Using that info, I use the
[19:57:24] <servus> one 2D shape as the texture for all faces of the 3D shape, and use texture coordinates as I've just described... I hope I did an OK job of explaining that.
[19:57:27] <sbx> Dominus: yeah he needs a lot of magic to display objects!
[19:57:52] <servus> sbx, 3D objects that I'd tackle first (because they're easy and need it:) are lampposts, trees, etc.
[19:58:21] <servus> I will probably choose to display objects that are below a certain size (1x1x1,etc) as sprites, and thus eliminate more problems.
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[20:00:45] <sbx> I hope we get a demo before that :)
[20:01:47] <servus> Ooh, lots of stuff to fix before a demo :-)
[20:01:54] <servus> Ok, I really really really have to go to work, bye.
[20:01:56] <sbx> somehow I imagine the whole thing with 2D sprites like xenogears
[20:02:01] <sbx> cya
[20:02:17] <Dominus> cu
[20:03:30] <Dominus> I'm a little stumped what to do about kimminho. He obviously has severe problems in expressing himself in English (and I guess in reading it as well) and I would like to help him
[20:03:39] <Dominus> but I don't see how
[20:04:31] <sbx> what Artaxerxes said
[20:04:59] <Dominus> yeah, probably the only way to help him
[20:09:03] <sbx> he might be korean
[20:12:09] <sbx> going to watch a movie
[20:12:11] <sbx> bye
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[20:14:29] <Lord_Nightmare> servus: for trees and lamps, what you can do is skew the texture slightly to 'straighten' the object, then display it as a flat sprite, thinned top-bottom depending on the height/angle of the camera. yeah it'll look like a poster. or you could do the skew and * trick for the trees at least. it might work for lampposts too but it'll probably just look strange.
[20:19:48] <Lord_Nightmare> the 'display as sprite thinned vertically by camera height' trick would actually work for all objects probably, but their direction-facing sprite would need to be switched depending on what angle they are facing (for objects which can face more than one direction, such as the avatar, people, dogs, horses, cats, rats, etc)
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[23:35:02] <Lord_Nightmare> servus: almost forgot: you need to play with the x coordinate of the top bar of the sprite too, to match perspective