#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 21 Aug 2003 (GMT)

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[11:50:22] <Sol32p> I'd expected Exult discussions here...
[11:50:49] <wjp> well, there are at times :-)
[11:51:12] <Sol32p> I suppose i'm here at the wrong time...
[11:51:25] <Sol32p> You're Dutch as well, aren't you?
[11:51:44] <wjp> yes
[11:53:25] <Sol32p> Do you know of people who are using studio to implement the ascension plot in U7, or the original U7-2 plot?
[11:54:53] <Cahaan> is there any advanced project like exult for ultima underworld ? I've checked one or two but didn't really enjoyed the engines feeling
[11:56:06] <Sol32p> did you check http://reconstruction.voyd.net/
[11:56:08] <Sol32p> ?
[11:58:35] <Cahaan> nope :)
[11:58:41] <Cahaan> gotta check it now
[11:59:14] <Cahaan> I hope they didn't change the gameplay at all
[11:59:18] <Sol32p> Not many projects are as advanced as exult though...
[11:59:35] <Sol32p> actually, most of the projects are a but disappointing
[11:59:50] <Cahaan> I think I tried the UW1 remake linked there, but they haven't implemented the most important option yet: examining stuff with right-click
[12:00:05] <Cahaan> and the way the engine handles moves is awful imho
[12:00:30] <Cahaan> that was UW adventures
[12:00:37] <Cahaan> never tried other remakes though
[12:00:45] <Sol32p> I think it needs some more time
[12:00:58] <Cahaan> yep
[12:01:05] <Sol32p> don't the old files work anymore?
[12:01:14] <Cahaan> too bad Ultima 1 remake was abandonned :(
[12:01:22] <Cahaan> which old files ?
[12:01:57] <Sol32p> well, just the original game
[12:02:06] <Sol32p> doesn't ik work under windows anymore?
[12:02:37] <Cahaan> it does work under windows
[12:02:38] <Cahaan> I have both
[12:02:54] <Sol32p> why all these remakes then?
[12:03:06] <Cahaan> better 3D engines
[12:03:16] <Cahaan> (I just love the old engines though)
[12:03:24] <Sol32p> they want to improve the resolution?
[12:03:35] <Cahaan> resolution and the general look of the game probably
[12:03:47] <Sol32p> the old engine was of course great, especially compared to other games back then
[12:04:03] <Cahaan> hell yes that was a revolution
[12:04:11] <Cahaan> UW is still my favourite RPG of all times
[12:04:16] <Sol32p> I remember in Doom, you could be standing in front of a ledge, with no way to jump on it. It was very frustrating
[12:04:27] <Cahaan> yeah
[12:04:37] <Cahaan> and underworld was even there before wolfenstein 3D :P
[12:04:40] <Sol32p> I should get back to work now...
[12:05:14] <Cahaan> good work :)
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[14:09:22] <Colourless> hi
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[15:48:59] <wjp> hi
[15:49:05] <Colourless> hi
[15:49:23] <Cahaan> hi
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[17:56:59] <_Vato> heya, anyone here?
[17:57:12] <_Vato> wjp?
[17:57:35] <_Vato> ?name
[17:57:35] <exultbot> Greetings Avatar. I am called Exultbot.
[17:57:41] <_Vato> ?job
[17:57:41] <exultbot> My job is to write down everything you say.
[17:57:49] <_Vato> woo hoo
[17:58:01] <_Vato> ?join
[17:58:01] <exultbot> I would be honored to join thee, Avatar, but I'm already in #exult's party.
[17:58:13] <_Vato> ho
[17:58:20] <_Vato> ?bye
[17:58:20] <exultbot> Goodbye, Avatar.
[17:58:34] <_Vato> ?help
[17:58:37] <_Vato> ?commands
[17:58:41] <_Vato> ?list
[17:58:59] <_Vato> ?log
[17:58:59] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php
[17:59:08] <_Vato> ?exult
[17:59:08] <exultbot> Exult is a project to create an Ultima 7 game engine that runs on modern operating systems, capable of using the data and graphics files that come with the game. See http://exult.sourceforge.net/ for more information.
[17:59:13] <_Vato> ?exultbot
[17:59:13] <exultbot> Exultbot is written in Perl by Willem Jan Palenstijn.
[17:59:24] <_Vato> ?ultima
[17:59:24] <exultbot> Ultima is an epic RPG game series created by Origin.
[17:59:33] <_Vato> i hear that
[17:59:48] <_Vato> ?leave
[18:00:04] <_Vato> ?seen
[18:00:34] <_Vato> Ho hum
[18:01:20] <_Vato> waaakkeee uuuppp
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[18:01:25] <_Vato> shesh
[18:03:13] <_Vato> when you eventually get back to ur PC, wjp, I have a program with ExultStudio. I receive constant crashs when editing terrain & objects, Exult simply shuts itself down.
[18:03:24] <_Vato> oops, program = problem
[18:03:44] <_Vato> bah, i'll come back later
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[18:45:27] <wjp> oh, uh, oops :-)
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[19:05:51] <_Vato> [18:45:27] <wjp> oh, uh, oops :-)
[19:05:53] <_Vato> you were here!
[19:06:08] <wjp> I am now, anyway
[19:06:51] <_Vato> is this prob i get with Exstudio isolated to me or is it a bug?
[19:07:12] <wjp> what exactly do you do to get a crash?
[19:07:30] <_Vato> hold on, lemme give it a spin
[19:09:27] <_Vato> it seems to occur whenever I try and build walls, though the timing is always random. I have to CONSTANTLY save to insure I dont loose my work, which after 5 hours or so can be a little annoying
[19:10:06] <wjp> so how do you build walls?
[19:11:08] <_Vato> ctrl alt m, go into shape files and drag them into Exult, then I just copy and paste the walls
[19:11:32] <_Vato> it happens also when I delete objects like cobwebs and dust
[19:11:38] <wjp> bg or si?
[19:11:42] <_Vato> bg
[19:13:01] <_Vato> its not exultstudio that crashs, its the Exult engine
[19:13:05] <_Vato> it just quits
[19:13:10] <wjp> hm, nothing happened yet after copy pasting a screen full of walls
[19:13:45] <_Vato> hold on a sec
[19:14:19] <wjp> ah, crash
[19:14:46] <_Vato> ok, go to skara brae and start screwing around in the tavern - delete dust and scorch marks etc.. and it will happen
[19:14:55] <_Vato> oh, you got it?
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[19:21:22] <mike_fictiti0us> also, i have one more question if you dont mind, I know you guys don't like noobs asking you tons of questions...
[19:22:29] <wjp> just ask :-)
[19:22:55] <mike_fictiti0us> Im getting that 'fanfare' music everytime I strike an enemy in SI - I've read that its going to be fixed - what I want to do is mute the sound. I extracted the sound pack and found the offending sound file, but the flx doesnt contain an index so I cant repack (I tried, muddled sounds ;)
[19:23:33] <mike_fictiti0us> would you have an index that translates the u7o files to their actual file names?
[19:24:18] <mike_fictiti0us> I asked before but the last guy blew me off
[19:25:13] <wjp> I think this bug was already fixed
[19:25:22] <mike_fictiti0us> is it in the latest snapshot?
[19:25:26] <wjp> should be
[19:25:35] <mike_fictiti0us> so you dont have what Im looking for?
[19:25:46] <wjp> you'd have to get the "sources" for the sound pack
[19:25:48] <mike_fictiti0us> also, i want to change some of the sounds
[19:25:59] <mike_fictiti0us> oh ok, where do I get that?
[19:26:13] <wjp> but if you unpack a flex the files should just be numbered in order
[19:26:48] <mike_fictiti0us> yeah, they are but when I repack all the sounds are scrambled in the game, a swordstrike is the sound of drums etc..
[19:26:59] <wjp> then you repacked them in the wrong order :-)
[19:27:11] <mike_fictiti0us> I did? goddamn I suck..
[19:28:36] <mike_fictiti0us> i used expack, extracted the files (1.u7o to 136 i think). What should I do when I recompile it?
[19:29:03] <wjp> are there any gaps in the files?
[19:29:09] <wjp> in the numbering, I mean
[19:29:15] <mike_fictiti0us> lemme check
[19:29:31] <mike_fictiti0us> you mean missing files or..?
[19:29:42] <wjp> missing numbers
[19:29:52] <mike_fictiti0us> no
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[19:32:11] <mike_fictiti0us> i type expack -c *.u7o - is that right?
[19:32:30] <wjp> *.u70 probably returns the files in the wrong order
[19:32:43] <wjp> which OS are you running, btw?
[19:32:49] <mike_fictiti0us> windows xp, unfortunately
[19:34:46] <mike_fictiti0us> should I create a batch file that adds every file individually? e.g expack -c 1.u70 2.u7o 3.u7o etc..
[19:34:56] <wjp> something like that :-)
[19:35:06] <wjp> or you can probably do "?.u7o ??.u7o ???.u7o"
[19:35:14] <mike_fictiti0us> ok, i'll give that a try.
[19:36:02] <wjp> don't you have to pass a target .flx filename somewhere too?
[19:37:21] <mike_fictiti0us> you mean a designated flx output file?
[19:39:00] <wjp> yeah... my expack syntax is a bit rusty, though. Where does it write its output to?
[19:39:54] <mike_fictiti0us> it writes to "1.u7o", overriding the sound file. I rename it though and it works fine, although muddled
[19:40:05] <mike_fictiti0us> err.. that could be my problem
[19:41:28] <mike_fictiti0us> oh ok, you type expack -c filename.flx followed by the filenames
[19:41:47] <mike_fictiti0us> i'll try this batch file, hopefully that will fix it, thanks for your help btw
[19:41:59] <wjp> np
[19:42:18] <mike_fictiti0us> and I LOOOVVVEEE exult! Brings back the 'old days' ;)
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[20:10:22] <Dominus> hey ho
[20:10:30] <wjp> hi
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[20:20:07] <Dominus> btw, in the jmsfxsi.zip (sfx for si by Joseph Morris) there is the correct list which can be passed to expack to build the sfx flex. In the packs by simon quinn there is no such file
[20:20:58] <Dominus> if you rename the u7o files to wav you can use that list. there is an example in the expack doc that comes with the tools
[20:21:25] <Dominus> exultbot: did you record that ? :-)
[20:21:26] <Cahaan> usecode was used in U6 too ?
[20:21:37] <Dominus> I don't think so
[20:21:53] <wjp> something like it
[20:22:01] <exultbot> Dominus: of course!
[20:22:03] <Dominus> nuvie is using that term because they like it
[20:22:10] <Dominus> exultbot: thanks
[20:23:48] <wjp> but anyway, if you unpack a sound flex, you should just be able to repack it in the order of the *.u7o files
[20:24:29] <Dominus> yeah, but if you make a list it is really a lot easier (and such a list can be done quite easily)
[20:25:10] <Dominus> the problem is most likely the sorting order
[20:25:25] <wjp> and passing 1.u7o as the name of the flex to create :-)
[20:25:39] <Dominus> :-)
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[21:38:22] <Cahaan> First from Redhat MkLinux 3.6.6 or from the drawer inside Netscape you have not to open the 8-bit processor.
[21:40:57] <Dominus> ?
[21:41:50] <Cahaan> that's pretty well done in exult
[21:41:54] <Cahaan> you should unlink with the icon, this way therefore you either can't digit on the mousepad, or can't open the device of the clock on a LCD mailer on the LCD ADSL display over the utility on the 4-inch bus to the button to debug a digital TCP/IP wordprocessor.
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[21:48:35] <mediarch> is this place active anymore?
[21:49:16] <Dominus> hi, and yes depends on the time and the busyness of people here
[21:49:32] <mediarch> ahh
[21:49:39] <mediarch> wasn't sure if this was just bots :)
[21:49:58] <Dominus> the only bot is exultbot afaik
[21:49:59] <mediarch> i ran across a *really* old log on google
[21:50:00] <mediarch> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php?log=20Jun2001
[21:50:08] <Dominus> ?logs
[21:50:08] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php
[21:50:27] <mediarch> was hoping someone might recognize a nick/url in it
[21:50:37] <mediarch> a guy named Tamino working on a pre-alpha server
[21:50:39] <Dominus> on that date?
[21:50:46] <mediarch> yeah, like i said, quite old :)
[21:51:06] <mediarch> the web site used to be up on archive.org, but for some reason its lost now
[21:52:43] <mediarch> apparently tamino had some amount of emulation working. i remember seeing a couple of in-game shots
[21:52:44] <Dominus> ?seen Tamino
[21:52:44] <exultbot> I haven't seen tamino lately
[21:52:50] <mediarch> heheh
[21:52:55] <mediarch> probably been a couple of years :D
[21:53:06] <Dominus> two
[21:53:37] <mediarch> http://web.archive.org/web/20010802063517/http://63.229.135.213/uol/index.shtml
[21:53:40] <mediarch> Wow, finally got it to load
[21:53:48] <mediarch> that's the one though
[21:54:42] <mediarch> ah well, just thought i'd check if anyone recognized it
[21:54:49] <mediarch> been trying to find the pre-alpha client for months
[21:54:50] <mediarch> with no luck
[21:55:02] <mediarch> no such thing as a cd burner back then :D
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[21:55:19] <mike_fictiti0us> hey thanks wjp, got it working!
[21:55:24] <mike_fictiti0us> err, he is not here
[21:55:28] <Dominus> he he
[21:55:39] <Dominus> mediarch: sorry can't help you...
[21:55:41] <mediarch> hmm. wjp was around when tamino was
[21:55:49] <mediarch> think they'd remember?
[21:57:18] <mike_fictiti0us> hey dominus, in the future will it be possible to edit npc conversations without resorting to editing the usecode manually? dunno if this is addressed in the readme's, havn't really checked ;)
[21:57:58] <Dominus> presently there are no real plans for an npc usecode editor...
[21:58:21] <mike_fictiti0us> whys that? lost interest in it?
[21:58:42] <Dominus> no one has made plans for it
[21:58:59] <Dominus> we discussed this once in the forum I think
[21:59:00] <mike_fictiti0us> damn
[21:59:56] <Dominus> the problem is that a conversation editor would rapidly become very complex as you would most likely want to have a full blown usecode editor then
[22:00:09] <mike_fictiti0us> yeah
[22:00:15] <mediarch> did anyone ever end up snagging U8 sourcecode? i remember a thread in the forum about that a few months ago
[22:00:34] <Dominus> nope
[22:00:39] <mike_fictiti0us> I remember reading on the forums something about restoring SI's cut plot elements, one of the dragons mentioned working on it - have you heard anything on this?
[22:00:45] <mediarch> dang
[22:00:55] <mediarch> well, at least black gate source is still alive
[22:01:26] <Dominus> it is?
[22:01:38] <mediarch> yeah
[22:01:52] <Dominus> mike_fictiti0us: apart from the forum posts I know nothing
[22:01:53] <mike_fictiti0us> i thought the source was 'lost'?
[22:02:01] <mike_fictiti0us> ok
[22:02:08] <mediarch> i don't think anyone's been able to find serpent isle sourcecode
[22:02:13] <mediarch> but BG was definitely archived
[22:02:35] <mediarch> was on origin.ea.com ftp a long long time ago
[22:02:36] <mediarch> :)
[22:02:46] <Dominus> it was?
[22:02:54] <mediarch> someone accidentally dumped it into the depths of /pub
[22:02:57] <mediarch> yes
[22:03:17] <mediarch> although i'm not exactly sure what constitutes an accident
[22:03:22] <mediarch> UO2 design docs were also in there
[22:03:50] <mediarch> i know that one of the dransik developers has a sick amount of OSI code on a disc
[22:03:56] <mediarch> but he's ah... reluctant to admit having it
[22:04:07] <mediarch> (with good reason heh)
[22:04:31] <mike_fictiti0us> SI's full storyboard was lost, right?
[22:04:45] <mediarch> huhn. no idea myself
[22:04:53] <mediarch> who storyboarded it?
[22:05:08] <mediarch> if it was the lead artist, you can just ask him
[22:05:48] <mike_fictiti0us> I think those questions have already been asked, nobody seems to 'remember' the specifics of what was cut from SI
[22:06:16] <mike_fictiti0us> apparenly alot though
[22:06:17] <mediarch> heh, i had no idea there was stuff cut from it
[22:06:19] <mediarch> neat
[22:06:33] <mediarch> BG has horrible documentation
[22:06:42] <mediarch> (sourcewise)
[22:06:56] <Dominus> there is a thread on the forum on the cut si plot. quite extensive
[22:07:20] <mediarch> neat, will do some reading
[22:07:23] <mike_fictiti0us> werent the banes supposed to take over the 3 main towns?
[22:07:28] <mike_fictiti0us> instead of wiping everyone out?
[22:07:29] <Dominus> yes
[22:07:46] <mike_fictiti0us> you were supposed to face each bane in each of the towns or something
[22:08:16] <Dominus> there is even some usecode remaining
[22:08:23] <mike_fictiti0us> yeah??
[22:08:35] <mike_fictiti0us> from the bane encounters?
[22:08:41] <Dominus> if you cheat a bit after the banes get released you can talk to som e of the dead
[22:08:54] <mike_fictiti0us> how do you do that??
[22:09:14] <Dominus> after the bane release, teleport outside of the cities (quite a bit, preferably under a roof
[22:09:37] <mike_fictiti0us> yah
[22:09:43] <Dominus> then press 'e' to show the eggs
[22:10:02] <Dominus> scroll the map without moving the avatar
[22:10:12] <Dominus> alt+arrow keys
[22:10:16] <mike_fictiti0us> yep
[22:10:42] <Dominus> delete the eggs next to the npcs stading around
[22:10:57] <Dominus> the green horseshoe/u-formed eggs
[22:11:08] <Dominus> hover the mouse over the egg and press del
[22:11:21] <mike_fictiti0us> in all the towns?
[22:11:21] <Dominus> then save the game :-)
[22:11:26] <Dominus> yes
[22:11:31] <Dominus> of course :-)
[22:11:43] <Dominus> some conversations will crash exult
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[22:11:55] <Dominus> for example delphinya's
[22:11:59] <Dominus> hi Kirben
[22:12:00] <mike_fictiti0us> no usecode functions for them or..?
[22:12:10] <Kirben> Hi
[22:12:29] <Dominus> the conversation usecode it points to is not in the usecode :-)
[22:12:38] <mike_fictiti0us> ah
[22:13:54] <Dominus> hence the saving before you enter the cities so you can go back
[22:14:02] <mike_fictiti0us> Im trying now ;)
[22:14:13] <Dominus> and also to reload if you forgot an egg
[22:14:34] <mike_fictiti0us> so I delete the eggs AFTER the banes are released/
[22:15:07] <Dominus> yes
[22:15:07] <mediarch> welp, thanks much for the info
[22:15:15] <mediarch> cheers all
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[22:15:17] <Dominus> np
[22:15:35] <Dominus> of course save the game there as well
[22:15:49] <Dominus> I have a very old savegame from this point
[22:16:07] <Dominus> might have a couple of bugs left, so it is not recommended for playing
[22:21:55] <mike_fictiti0us> how many of these conversations are there?
[22:22:51] <Dominus> don't know
[22:22:59] <Dominus> I checked some
[22:23:20] <mike_fictiti0us> ok, im going to read some of these, interesting stuff. thanks for that
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[22:42:23] <jan_here> dominus:
[22:42:33] <Dominus> yes?
[22:42:46] <jan_here> I talked to delphynia, after she was supposed to be dead (strangely withoug extra circumvention of eggs).
[22:43:11] <jan_here> she has a menupoint mad iolo but the game does not crash.
[22:43:35] <Cahaan> spoilers!!
[22:43:45] <Dominus> I tried this a long time ago and maybe exult behaves better now...
[22:43:47] <jan_here> because checking is done by string comparison.. there is just no match for it in the usecode so
[22:44:06] <jan_here> no answer comes forth the point just stays in your conversation menu
[22:44:23] <jan_here> the point is all thats left of her conversation apparently (checked the usecode directly)
[22:44:29] <jan_here> you had more?
[22:45:29] <Dominus> phew, it *really* was a long time ago when I checked this. with old savegames of my initial bug-hunting run through SI
[22:45:37] <jan_here> btw: I just caught up with the conversation here: The BG source is out there? really=
[22:45:39] <jan_here> ?
[22:45:48] <Dominus> well, we don't have it
[22:46:07] <Dominus> and it is now not really needed anymore
[22:46:15] <Dominus> or is it? :-)
[22:46:20] <jan_here> there are still some unknowns afaik
[22:46:30] <jan_here> would be nice to fill the gaps..
[22:47:14] <jan_here> how do I cheat in exult to see the endbame of BG? :)
[22:48:25] <Dominus> couple of ways: either create an empty file called endgame.flg in the dir where you find your savegames
[22:49:18] <Dominus> or use the Trinsic-blacksmith-roof-teleporter to get the blackroke fragments and rudyoms wand and teleport to the endgame room
[22:49:20] <jan_here> the whole conversation thing is doen in usecode ..
[22:50:20] <Dominus> what do you mean by that?
[22:51:08] <jan_here> checking against answers you click on is done in usecode I was just contemplationg how it could have crashed the game..
[22:51:43] <Dominus> I think exult did not handle it correctly if there was no "endpoint"...
[22:52:39] <jan_here> no.. you click on an answer and usecode just iterates through possible matches. if noe is found it should just wrap around.. well whatever it behaves well now.
[22:53:36] <jan_here> hmm the endgame of BG is a little buggy.. the text fades out, fades back in and then suddenly changes to the next text that was supposed to fade in ..
[22:54:30] <jan_here> btw: you noticed the story flaw in BG that gets started in the very beginning of the game? about the murder that is in the beginning?
[22:54:42] <Dominus> about usecode, the usecode interpreter (exult) still needs to do it correctly
[22:54:47] <Dominus> what flaw?
[22:55:34] <jan_here> well, you get charged by the mayor of trinsic to solve the murder in the stables you look at in the very beginning, but when you found out (much later in the game) you can not go back to him and tell him.
[22:57:42] <Dominus> that's a very little flaw, after all you solve all there is to solve in trinsic and he gives you the reward for that
[22:58:45] <jan_here> yes, it was just back then when I played BG I made lists for all the places I was with things left to do. It was one of the points left. I was just going through my old notes.
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[23:38:32] <Dominus> good night
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[23:56:03] <mike_fictiti0us> you there kirben?
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