#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 21 Jan 2002 (GMT)

Archive Today Yesterday Tomorrow
Exult homepage

[00:03:04] <wjp> I switched xchat to iso8859-15, and the euro sign is at pos 164 there
[00:06:28] <wjp> it's missing in iso8859-1, where it should be on 128 according to some pages. (not that I'm sure if should believe those pages)
[00:11:13] <Amy> Heh.
[00:11:29] <Amy> wjp, I got a little square-shaped star thing.
[00:11:38] <Amy> And got nothing from Fingolfin.
[00:11:55] <Fingolfin> wjp: isaw your euro symbol!
[00:12:10] <Fingolfin> this is a euro: @
[00:12:10] <wjp> that star thingie is what's in iso8859-1 on position 164
[00:12:11] <Fingolfin> err
[00:12:12] <Fingolfin>
[00:12:13] <Fingolfin> :)
[00:12:17] <Fingolfin> @ !=
[00:12:17] <wjp> square for me
[00:12:21] <Fingolfin> hm
[00:12:23] <Fingolfin> send one again, pls
[00:12:30] <wjp>
[00:12:37] <Fingolfin> what is this for you:
[00:12:58] <wjp> square
[00:13:01] <Fingolfin> funny
[00:13:08] <Fingolfin> I copied and pasted what you sent me
[00:13:12] <wjp> heh :-)
[00:13:18] * wjp tries that too...
[00:13:18] <Fingolfin> maybe my client is translating incoming euro symbol but not the outgoing?
[00:13:24] <wjp> <Fingolfin> what is this for you:
[00:13:30] <Fingolfin> nothing at all :)
[00:13:37] <wjp> yeah, here too...
[00:14:14] <wjp> one annoying thing is that I see that star-thingie when I type it myself, but it shows up as Euro in the channel window
[00:14:26] <Fingolfin> he
[00:14:38] <wjp> (my gnome doesn't have a 8859-15 charset for its default font, I guess)
[00:15:08] <wjp> how do you type a euro sign, btw?
[00:15:17] <wjp> (and what do you have that key mapped to?)
[00:18:33] <Fingolfin> Alt-E for me
[00:21:22] * wjp fights with xmodmap
[00:22:18] <Fingolfin> pay attention! It's trying to get at you from the left!
[00:22:25] * Fingolfin watches the giant's struggle
[00:22:31] <wjp> lol
[00:23:09] <wjp> ok... right-alt E now produces a 'currency' sign for me
[00:23:22] <Fingolfin> show
[00:23:26] <wjp>
[00:23:42] <wjp> works in 8859-15, but not in 8859-1 for me
[00:23:50] <Fingolfin> shows fine for me
[00:23:55] <Fingolfin> hmm
[00:24:00] <Fingolfin> I should check what ASCII I actually generate
[00:24:20] <Fingolfin> 219, intersting
[00:24:44] <wjp>
[00:24:49] <wjp> that's 219 for me
[00:25:03] <Fingolfin> but 162 is also Euro it seems
[00:25:09] <wjp> 162?
[00:25:15] <wjp> that's a cent sign for me
[00:25:16] <wjp>
[00:26:02] <Fingolfin> for me, too, in some fonts
[00:26:04] <Fingolfin> interesting :)
[00:26:18] <Fingolfin> in my text editor, the edit view shows it as cent, but the ASCII table as Euro =)
[00:26:25] <Fingolfin> what is this for you:
[00:26:31] * wjp somehow gets the feeling this whole euro thing hasn't been thought out as well as it could have been
[00:26:35] <wjp> a paragraph sign
[00:26:38] <Fingolfin> ok
[00:26:44] <Fingolfin> that is 164 for me
[00:26:53] <wjp> 167 here
[00:26:57] <wjp>
[00:26:58] <Fingolfin> well, mac os has had its own font mapping for ever
[00:27:06] <Fingolfin> so, I expect my IRC client to perform some translationm
[00:27:16] <wjp> or maybe I should just upgrade things like X and gnome
[00:27:31] <Fingolfin> the question is, to what is my euro sign translated... can you determine what ASCII the char has I am sending you?
[00:27:47] <wjp> hm
[00:27:47] <Fingolfin> sadly, kinch1 isn't online right now (author of this irc client)
[00:27:49] <Fingolfin>
[00:28:46] <wjp> 128, 3 times
[00:28:59] <wjp> the paragraph sign you sent was 167
[00:29:50] <wjp> the "What is this for you: ?" was a 128 too
[00:30:02] <wjp> and so was the "@" :-)
[00:31:42] <wjp> hm, it seems I have to dedicate right-alt entirely to the 'Mode_switch'
[00:32:04] <wjp> (it doesn't want to be Alt_R at the same time)
[00:32:05] <Fingolfin> lol
[00:32:20] * Amy looks over the backlog.
[00:32:29] <Fingolfin> so, I am actualyl sending the right code? wow :)
[00:33:00] <wjp> hey, exultbot's logs show your euro sign properly :-)
[00:33:30] <Fingolfin> good good
[00:34:35] <wjp> ...assuming I use 8859-1 in galeon
[00:35:13] <wjp> 8859-15 shows question marks
[00:35:25] * wjp decides that his 8859-1 font is just broken
[00:35:25] <Amy> Weirdness.
[00:35:31] <Amy> Okay, that's just bizarre.
[00:35:31] <Fingolfin> hi amy
[00:35:31] <Fingolfin> porting fakeroot to OS X is "fun"
[00:35:31] <Fingolfin> where "fun" means "dead complicated and tedious" :)
[00:35:31] <Fingolfin> wjp: or dated?
[00:35:31] <Fingolfin> the font I mean
[00:35:31] <wjp> yeah, dated, broken... same thing really :-)
[00:35:31] <Amy> Dated usually translates to broken, yeah.
[00:35:31] <Fingolfin> hm, you think so?
[00:35:40] <wjp> it's debatable, I guess :-)
[00:35:42] <Fingolfin> "I dated my gf" ... "I broken my gf" - the second is bad grammar, and not very good either =)
[00:36:11] <wjp> no, "dated" as in a perfect tense
[00:36:23] <wjp> so, "I have dated my gf" -> "I have broken my gf"
[00:36:24] <Amy> I think Fingolfin knows. =>
[00:36:35] <Fingolfin> =)
[00:36:45] <wjp> Amy: the point was the second line ;-)
[00:36:54] <Fingolfin> well, on second thought, it's indeed identical even in this example, no? =)
[00:36:56] * Amy sees, now.
[00:38:29] <wjp> hm, when you run an X application remotely, it still uses the fonts of the local X server, right?
[00:38:49] <wjp> s/ still//
[00:39:06] <Fingolfin> I'd think so, yeah
[00:39:14] <Fingolfin> of course, you could tell your font server to use fonts from the remote font server, too :)
[00:39:26] <wjp> heh :-)
[00:41:02] <Amy> Or you could map using NFS, and simply run the remote X server locally.
[00:41:02] * wjp looks at number theory exercises... only 2 1/2 done
[00:41:37] <wjp> Amy: I'll just try it to tomorrow, when I'm actually physically at the univ.
[00:41:47] * Amy nods.
[00:41:59] <wjp> (it == RH72, instead of RH71 which I run here)
[00:42:46] <wjp> or I could just get an upgraded xf86 fonts package
[00:43:09] <Amy> I somehow doubt the fonts have changed that much.
[00:43:16] <Fingolfin> number theory? watcha doing roughly?
[00:43:54] <wjp> transcendence proofs, "kettingbreuken" (chain fractions? infinite fractions?), Pell's equation
[00:44:37] <wjp> oh, and simultaneous diophantyne approximations
[00:45:05] <wjp> kind of fun... had the exam last friday, just have to catch up on some homework
[00:45:36] <wjp> Amy: true, but I'm hoping they at least added a euro sign in some places :-)
[00:48:17] <wjp> hm, there is mention of a euro-related patch in the changelog between the fonts packages I have and those in RH72
[00:48:37] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[00:48:37] <-- pippin has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[00:48:37] <-- Amy has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[00:51:33] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[00:52:12] --> wjp has joined #exult
[00:53:27] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[00:53:27] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[00:55:04] <wjp> hi
[00:55:36] --> wjp_ has joined #exult
[00:56:15] <-- wjp_ has left IRC (Client Quit)
[01:03:51] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[01:04:04] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[01:04:04] --> pippin has joined #exult
[01:04:04] --> Amy has joined #exult
[01:07:44] <Kirben> Hi
[01:07:53] <Kirben> colourless forgot some files... fixed now
[01:10:11] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("42")
[01:13:02] <-- Kirben has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[01:13:02] <-- matto has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[01:17:50] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[01:17:50] --> matto has joined #exult
[01:45:12] <-- Amy has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[01:45:12] <-- pippin has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[01:47:58] --> pippin has joined #exult
[01:47:58] --> Amy has joined #exult
[03:19:51] <Amy> BWHAAAA!
[03:47:52] <-- Amy has left IRC ("Client Exiting")
[05:37:35] --> Darke has joined #exult
[05:41:39] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[08:07:17] <-- Darke has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[08:07:17] <-- pippin has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[08:07:17] <-- matto has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[08:07:17] <-- Kirben has left IRC (sterling.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[08:12:16] --> Darke has joined #exult
[08:12:16] --> pippin has joined #exult
[08:12:16] --> matto has joined #exult
[08:12:16] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[08:26:02] <-- Kirben has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[09:16:15] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[09:16:15] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[09:16:25] <Dominus> hi
[09:16:44] <Dominus> someone killed my mingw compile...
[09:21:52] <Darke> Hello. <bow> Not me! <grin>
[09:22:44] <Dominus> yeah there seems to be something missing that is needed for compiling exult for studio drag and drop (complains about glib.h missing)
[09:23:01] <Dominus> I'll see if that is mentioned somewhere in the code...
[09:23:25] <Darke> /* GLIB - Library of useful routines for C programming
[09:23:47] <Darke> It's under linux. Perhaps there's no version of it for mingw?
[09:24:21] <Darke> It's apparently distributed with gtk or something.
[09:25:26] <Dominus> I'm doing a clean make now to see if that fixes anything...
[09:29:17] <Dominus> nope, of course this didn't help :-)
[09:29:59] <Darke> Does glib.h actually exist on your machine?
[09:30:00] <Dominus> so, then I'll just wait for Colourless
[09:31:56] * Darke nods.
[09:43:41] <Dominus> so Colourless joined 3df Underground :-) http://3dfxunderground.cjb.net
[10:00:51] --> Dominik has joined #exult
[10:00:51] <-- Dominus has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[10:02:51] --- Dominik is now known as Dominus
[10:03:14] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[10:14:39] <Darke> (Colourless+3dfx) <grin> Cool.
[10:14:52] <Dominus> he he
[10:46:00] <Dominus> ah this gtk,glade and what else really messes up my mingw
[10:46:19] <Dominus> with some file copying it now resumes compilation and...
[10:46:54] * Darke earperks and awaits in anticipation.
[10:47:44] <Dominus> looks good so far...
[10:49:18] <Dominus> yuhu, exult compiled
[10:49:35] <Darke> Woohoo. <grin> But... does it work?
[10:49:53] <Dominus> I'm just compiling studio and then tell you
[10:53:20] <Dominus> hm the drag and drop doesn't work
[10:54:54] <Darke> Perhaps that is what the file was used for? I don't really know, since I don't really use exult_studio.
[10:55:26] <Dominus> nah, works, somehow my batch file didn't want to copy the new compiled exe to the right spot
[10:57:50] <Darke> Hmm... I wonder what it was used for then, probably something linux specific.
[10:59:21] <Dominus> no Darke, I had that file only the installation of the mingw files was totally messed up
[11:00:10] <Darke> Ahh. No problem.
[14:47:40] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[14:47:40] --- Topic for #exult is: USECODE! the secret Power of Ultima 7 (and Ultima 8!) and Exult! Or how to waste $ 3,080,278 ! Vote for exult at http://linuxformat.co.uk/awards!
[14:47:40] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Fri Jan 11 14:46:43 2002
[14:56:46] * Darke patpats the returned exultbot and offers it a carrot.
[14:56:53] <Colourless> :-)
[14:58:36] <Darke> And not just _any_ carrot too! http://us.vclart.net/vcl/Artists/J-Willard/jw-dprey.jpg
[14:59:25] <Colourless> heh
[15:00:00] * Darke admits it was completely co-incidental, but he _likes_ that picture for some reason... <snicker>
[15:03:32] <Darke> Random thought: Perhaps we should have an EXULT define in the exult makefile, and a PENTAGRAM define in the pentagram makefile, or something similar. Just for the benefit of the stuff in 'common'?
[15:03:46] <Colourless> yes
[15:04:03] <Colourless> :-)
[15:04:54] * Darke is thinking specifically in terms of ucxt here, if there was an EXULT define, then he could pretty much drop ucxt straight into common. After fiddling with all the directory structures and making them similar to the rest of exult/pentagram. <grin>
[15:18:50] <Colourless> it's a good idea for other things as well
[15:20:10] <Darke> <nod> Like if you've made a change to one of the common files specific to pentagram, and the problem isn't in exult, or you haven't tested exult, or it's going to require big changes to exult, or whatever. You can have two versions of the function in there.
[15:20:53] <Colourless> well, flex handling is a good example
[15:21:24] <Colourless> u7 and u8 flexes are virtually the same, except u8 flexes don't have the magic numbers
[15:21:31] <Darke> Agreed. There's what, two bytes difference? <grin>
[15:21:37] <Colourless> 4
[15:22:29] <Darke> Oh well, off by a binary order of magnitude of one, such is life. <grin>
[15:52:17] --> dto has joined #exult
[15:56:05] <dto> hi folks
[15:56:10] <Colourless> hi
[15:56:28] <dto> what's up
[15:56:35] <dto> in the world of Ultima?
[15:56:47] <Colourless> nothing much really
[16:03:56] <dto> yeah
[16:04:00] <dto> i'm moving back to school tonight
[16:14:59] <-- pippin has left #exult ("http://hnb.sf.net/")
[16:23:59] <Darke> It is, perhaps, time for me to disappear for sleep. <grin> Night all.
[16:24:06] <-- Darke has left #exult ()
[16:24:08] <Colourless> cya
[16:30:53] --> wjp has joined #exult
[16:30:53] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[16:30:56] <wjp> hi
[16:31:01] <Colourless> hi
[16:51:36] <Colourless> oh what fun. the win32 dnd code stops all the other dnd that exult studio does from working
[16:55:57] <wjp> hm?
[16:56:02] <wjp> other dnd?
[16:56:30] <Colourless> well when you edit an npc, you you dnd to change the shape and face of it
[16:56:43] <wjp> you do?
[16:56:50] <Colourless> yeah
[16:56:57] <wjp> from inside estudio?
[16:57:06] <Colourless> yeah
[16:57:17] <wjp> hm, and that worked before?
[16:57:56] <Colourless> yeah kind of.... if crashing when something is dropped is classed as working :-)
[16:58:16] <wjp> :-)
[16:58:31] <Colourless> of course now, it doesn't work at all. :-)
[17:38:49] <wjp> hm, any chance that Jeff sabotaged it? :-) (re. Jeff's last email ;-) )
[17:39:19] <Colourless> of course!
[17:59:11] <Colourless> hmm, well, i've gotten dnd to kind of work, but it's all a really really really big hack the way how i've been attempting to get around the problems
[17:59:46] <Colourless> firstly i used a slightly modifed version of the drop handler used by exult.
[18:00:25] <Colourless> secondly the only way to use it requires having the HWND for the window that will handle dropping. I got this by using 'GetActiveWindow' which is a less than safe method
[18:01:00] <wjp> there's no GTK function to get it?
[18:01:16] <Colourless> the header is missing
[18:01:48] <Colourless> i looked around and the way to get it is being changed for 2.0
[18:02:08] <wjp> hm, something like GDK_WINDOW_HWND or GDK_DRAWABLE_XID, it seems
[18:03:05] <Colourless> yeah GDK_DRAWABLE_XID was it
[18:03:59] <Colourless> there is still one more thing I had to do :-)
[18:04:00] <Colourless> lastly GTK crashes if I attempt to update the widget while handling the drop from OLE, so instead I send the data to Exult via the coms system, so it can send it back and the message can be handled and GTK wont crash
[18:04:33] <wjp> ugh
[18:04:45] <wjp> quite a hack
[18:06:26] <Colourless> quite a hack indeed but it works though. :-)
[18:06:53] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
[18:09:46] <Colourless> i'll get rid of it though and put in something a little less of a hack
[18:29:20] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[18:48:53] <wjp> argh... my ISP still didn't resolve that whole postmaster@planet.nl mess
[18:58:15] <-- Colourless has left IRC (calvino.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[18:58:15] <-- dto has left IRC (calvino.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[18:58:15] <-- matto has left IRC (calvino.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[18:58:43] --> Colourless has joined #exult
[18:58:43] --> dto has joined #exult
[18:58:43] --> matto has joined #exult
[19:00:56] --- wjp is now known as wjp|away
[19:03:06] <Colourless> argh. the crash that needed the 'really' big hack was my fault
[19:51:10] <Colourless> ah, everything works nicely now
[19:52:07] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[19:52:21] <Fingolfin> lo
[19:52:33] <Colourless> hi
[19:52:49] * Colourless has to go do things
[19:52:51] --- Colourless is now known as Cless|Away
[20:20:14] --- Cless|Away is now known as Colourless
[20:20:22] --- wjp|away is now known as wjp
[20:20:42] <wjp> hi Max
[20:20:53] <Fingolfin> hi willem
[20:22:06] <wjp> when were you going to Eindhoven, btw? September?
[20:24:17] <Fingolfin> around that time, yeah
[20:39:58] --- Fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|dinner
[21:17:41] --- Fingolfin|dinner is now known as Fingolfin
[21:57:00] <wjp> I should go
[21:57:02] <wjp> night
[21:57:07] <Colourless> cya
[21:57:11] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[22:31:10] --> Kharza-kzad has joined #exult
[22:41:07] <-- dto has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[23:01:15] --> blackbird has joined #exult
[23:01:46] <blackbird> exultbot: hi
[23:01:46] <exultbot> Hi blackbird!
[23:05:14] <blackbird> I tried out the Win32 snapshot of Pentragram during class today and it works great. Kudos to wjp and Colourless!
[23:05:59] <Fingolfin> hey what is with me? I wrote the build system and the mouse cursor, the two most important pieces of it all <vbg>
[23:06:20] <blackbird> So far, Exult Studio is working out well except that it crashes ocasionally when I edit U7SI
[23:06:59] <blackbird> Fingolfin: My apologies... I haven't been checked the changelogs... Your hard work is very much appreciated by us unworthy playtesters
[23:07:04] <blackbird> :-)
[23:07:50] <Fingolfin> lol, in fact, willem and ryan did most of the hard work, by working on the usecode & file format stuff, i.e. all the reverse engineering (tedious job).
[23:07:55] <Fingolfin> just kidding
[23:08:14] <-- matto has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[23:08:37] <blackbird> Well, I'd be praising you more if I had a Mac :-)
[23:09:24] <blackbird> Hehehe... oh what does it matter... my fiancee thinks I'm way too obsessed with Exult... I'm a groupie
[23:15:00] <blackbird> I'm secretly hoping that my son will take to Exult and Pentagram too... oh well, a guy can dream
[23:19:11] <blackbird> exultbot: seen wjp
[23:19:50] <-- Colourless has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[23:20:26] <blackbird> I guess that's my queue to leave as well... g-nite all
[23:20:29] <-- blackbird has left #exult ("Client Exiting")
[23:24:09] --> matto has joined #exult