#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 21 Mar 2003 (GMT)

Archive Today Yesterday Tomorrow
Exult homepage


[00:01:51] <Dominus> bye and happy coding
[00:01:54] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("enough for now")
[00:02:12] <SB-X> bye
[00:42:06] --> Matt_O has joined #exult
[00:44:59] <Matt_O> ?seen Fingolfin's SNAK
[00:44:59] <exultbot> I haven't seen fingolfin's lately
[00:59:06] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[00:59:06] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben
[01:40:59] <Yuv422> oh dear, some of my NPCs have turned into fireplaces. :(
[01:43:36] <Matt_O> yuv... how... how could you have allowed this to happen
[01:44:55] <Yuv422> hehe maybe I'm not ready for level one light spells just yet. ;)
[01:45:25] * Yuv422 casts ignite fireplace.... Oh no...
[01:46:51] * Yuv422 wonders wether the actor manager should draw actors or should the actors draw themselves?
[01:47:36] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("42")
[01:48:47] <Yuv422> hmm Lord B is standing on his throne facing the wall... ;)
[01:49:18] <SB-X> at least he knows where to be
[01:49:32] <Yuv422> true.
[01:50:09] <SB-X> one good thing about u6 is shamino isn't as annoying as u7
[01:50:39] <SB-X> he's basically a moving backpack for you
[01:51:15] <Yuv422> :) yeah it sounds like he'd rather be off sitting in his forest home.
[01:51:51] <SB-X> are Actors Objects?
[01:52:05] <Yuv422> no
[01:52:13] <Yuv422> they live in the objlist file
[01:52:37] <Yuv422> but their items are found in the objblk files. along with the map objects.
[01:52:51] <Yuv422> there are 256 actors in U6
[01:53:03] <SB-X> they are all used?
[01:53:03] <Yuv422> some are temporary I think.
[01:53:18] <Yuv422> that's probably why they are fireplaces ATM ;)
[01:53:44] <SB-X> heh
[01:53:49] <Yuv422> there are only 190 or so pictures IIRC.
[02:13:44] <Yuv422> right Actor support is now in cvs. :)
[02:30:31] --> ShadwChsr has joined #exult
[02:42:15] --> armav has joined #exult
[02:46:02] <-- armav has left IRC (Client Quit)
[05:11:08] --> Servus has joined #exult
[06:21:49] * Servus blinksblinksblinks
[06:22:14] * SB-X grins
[06:22:51] <Servus> are you trying to bite my eyelids?
[06:23:21] <SB-X> no, im nowhere near them
[06:23:29] <Servus> that's a comfort
[06:23:45] <Yuv422> Servus: are they fake?
[06:24:09] <Servus> no, for that certainly would not be a comfort, in a metaphysical or quite corporeal sense
[06:28:00] <Yuv422> do you think I should make the NPCs twitch like they did in the original U6?
[06:28:19] <SB-X> hmm
[06:28:29] <SB-X> where they switch between walking frames even when standing still?
[06:28:39] <Yuv422> yes
[06:28:42] <SB-X> yes :-)
[06:28:56] <SB-X> unless you didn't like that
[06:29:11] <SB-X> maybe they felt they look more active that way
[06:29:13] <Yuv422> righto. nah I thought it was good. :)
[06:29:19] <SB-X> they=origin developers
[06:29:39] <Yuv422> I've got the npc directions set properly now. :)
[06:29:45] <Servus> make it an option
[06:29:56] <Servus> i just barely finished savage empire start-to-finish:)
[06:30:10] <Yuv422> I've never played SE :(
[06:30:17] <Servus> very very good game
[06:30:26] <SB-X> i just played the start
[06:30:30] <Servus> i never got into martian dreams, but savage empire was great, even with its bugs
[06:30:32] <SB-X> walked out of the first village a little ways
[06:30:43] <Yuv422> I hope to support it.
[06:30:55] <SB-X> thats about as far as i got in MD too, walking a little ways from the ship
[06:31:58] <Servus> my 3d engine is getting complex, if youve been kept updated on my progress at all:P
[06:32:11] <Servus> imagine this: the near clipping plane is 5 MILES out :-)
[06:32:21] <Yuv422> :)
[06:32:24] <Servus> im gonna make it more like 20 miles before i make my next release
[06:32:45] <Yuv422> any fog?
[06:33:04] <Servus> just enough to give an ambient effect -- you can see mountains rendered from miles, miles, miles away
[06:34:30] <Servus> im not quite sure how im gonna do textures... i have two options: texture splatting (kinda like a tiled base texture, with "decals" on top), or a full-unique-texture (textures up to 15,000x15,000 pixels wide)
[06:35:11] * Servus blogs the #exult channel
[06:37:00] <Yuv422> 15,000x15,000 can you fit that into texture ram? I guess os but it sounds pretty big :)
[06:39:54] <Servus> course ya can't fit it into ram :), there are lots of little tricks to use:)
[06:40:18] <Servus> you kinda blit from your harddrive to the surface youre currently using..., chunk it up
[06:50:55] <ShadwChsr> yeah, but you do realize that that one texture will be 7 terrabytes, right?
[06:50:56] <ShadwChsr> ;-)
[06:51:11] <ShadwChsr> err sorry 7 gigs
[06:51:12] <ShadwChsr> ;)
[06:51:22] <ShadwChsr> but still.. I imagine you will have more than one of them :)
[06:54:53] <Servus> well if i had a texture that big, it'd be for my entire world
[06:55:11] <Servus> and youd also use a detail texture to make it look good up-close
[06:56:07] <Servus> and that's a small world:-)
[06:56:16] <Servus> so, im probably not doing it that way
[06:56:21] <Servus> i think im gonna use texture splatting with premade lightmaps
[06:57:46] <Servus> how goes your program?
[07:02:16] <ShadwChsr> mine? Awesome!
[07:02:23] <ShadwChsr> I figured out how to do the pick ray, all on my own ;)
[07:02:40] <ShadwChsr> It was like a UFO flew over and blasted me with their hightech superbrain ray
[07:02:41] <ShadwChsr> ;)
[07:03:10] <ShadwChsr> So I now have code to fully detect the object that was clicked, right down to pixel precision.
[07:03:31] <ShadwChsr> The ray casts from the ground up, adding all entities it collides with to the stack (this is check #1, the bounding box check)
[07:04:07] <ShadwChsr> the stack is then processed, going down from the top (Z+) to the bottom (Z-) of all bounding box collisions, testing against the actual sprite to see if it clicked on a pixel with an alpha > 0
[07:04:10] <ShadwChsr> if so = collision with object
[07:04:10] <ShadwChsr> :)
[07:04:40] <SB-X> is that fast?
[07:05:00] <Servus> cool
[07:05:09] <ShadwChsr> Not sure if its fast, but it works :)
[07:05:32] <ShadwChsr> I cant cast the ray from the air pointing down because the heighest object can be any height
[07:05:44] <ShadwChsr> and it would get messy setting the origin of the ray to be the highest possible double value
[07:06:16] <ShadwChsr> it was easier doing a double check, one for the bb collisions and into the stack, the second for the pixel test. Once it finds a collision in the pixel test, processing stops
[07:06:37] <ShadwChsr> There's two areas i'm unsure about though...
[07:06:51] <ShadwChsr> First is the number of calls that hit the call stack... to do the pixel test.
[07:07:27] <ShadwChsr> The input routine calls the entity's "GetAlphaValue" function, which call's the object template's function, which calls the tile's function, which calls the sprite's function, which calls the renderer dll's function
[07:07:29] <ShadwChsr> ;P
[07:07:39] <ShadwChsr> but each level has private members, so not sure how else to do it ;)
[07:07:51] <ShadwChsr> the other, obviously, is locking the actual surface
[07:08:16] <ShadwChsr> I lock it to a specific rect, so it returns me the exact alpha value, I just do a (char *)pBits, voila :)
[07:08:26] <ShadwChsr> Seems fast, I can always improve it later.. at least it works! :)
[07:09:29] <ShadwChsr> I imagine the next thing to do is more collision code cleanup, and then writing some code so I can drag/move objects around :)
[07:09:46] <ShadwChsr> Possibly with some sort of radius from the player, the range the player can place objects
[07:10:03] <Servus> i think EVERY function in my CQuadtree class is recursive:-/
[07:10:23] <ShadwChsr> I already started my debug/editor (like exult), so I can do things like create objects and drag them where I want... effectively making maps
[07:10:29] <ShadwChsr> will tide me over until I build the full map editor
[07:10:47] <ShadwChsr> and it'll be usefull later when i want to fix minor bugs without shutting down the game and switching to the map editor
[07:11:00] <Servus> cool,i still need to make a proper mapedit:)
[07:11:06] <ShadwChsr> I also programmed most of my text code, for showing text on the screen
[07:11:09] <Servus> mapeditor*, but i shouldnt til i get my engine near where i like it
[07:11:17] <Servus> im very proud of my HUD
[07:11:30] <Servus> it uses a stack:)
[07:11:35] <ShadwChsr> so I now have my debug menu, statistics (ie/ fps), and names for entities above the entity (like tooltips :)
[07:11:55] <ShadwChsr> I'd like to hear your thoughts on HUD/Gumps/UI, I have no idea how to program one
[07:12:02] <ShadwChsr> Right now its kind of hacked :)
[07:12:10] <ShadwChsr> At least its isolated so it will be easy to fix later, but still :(
[07:12:27] <Servus> hacked is ok, long as it works and you can fix it later
[07:12:39] <ShadwChsr> Yeah... but I still want beautiful HUD code :)
[07:12:54] <ShadwChsr> I think I might program some alpha-blended tooltips soon, click on an entity and the tooltip appears, like u7 :)
[07:13:07] <Servus> well my CHud class has two ways to write text, TextQuick and TextFaded... these add two similar things to the stack, and on CHud::Render, it clears the stack and renders all the text
[07:13:09] <ShadwChsr> My game expands on that idea, sort of a mix between u7 and metroid prime
[07:13:25] <Servus> text is ONLY rendered in .Render, and it's just put on the stack when you .TextQuick or .TextFaded, this makes it fast:)
[07:13:30] <ShadwChsr> each object has a default name and default description
[07:14:01] <ShadwChsr> In addition, I can add a number of special descriptions, one for certain classes... say, a description for someone with high intelligence, or someone with a good animal lore skill, etc
[07:14:29] <ShadwChsr> I never liked games where you clicked on an object (what the heck IS that) and you had no clue about it :)
[07:14:38] <ShadwChsr> like those weird mage apparatus hehehe
[07:14:42] <ShadwChsr> or mystic charts :)
[07:14:54] <SB-X> it could be called more realistic that way
[07:15:24] <ShadwChsr> true, but my system won't default to the fancy description
[07:16:02] <ShadwChsr> it might say "Unknown magical tools", if you have a high magic skill, then would say "Device to extract high levels of magical energy from the ether and transfer it into a potion"
[07:16:02] <ShadwChsr> ;)
[07:17:42] <ShadwChsr> Or bones on the ground.. "human bones"; if you have a good forensics (or anatomy) skill... "bones of a young human female, who died approximately 400 years ago, judging by the condition of the bones"
[07:17:51] <ShadwChsr> anyhow <rambles on>
[07:17:52] <ShadwChsr> :)
[07:18:00] <Servus> im usually the rambler
[07:18:11] <SB-X> maybe you should have that in another area of the screen?
[07:18:16] <SB-X> like a dedicated text block
[07:18:23] <SB-X> when you double click the object
[07:18:31] <ShadwChsr> Yeah, probably will show up in a dialog
[07:18:32] <SB-X> or something else besides single click
[07:18:34] <ShadwChsr> or UI element
[07:18:39] <SB-X> and single click would still just show the brief desc.
[07:18:41] <ShadwChsr> single click will just show the name of the object, like U7
[07:18:48] <SB-X> yeah
[07:18:51] <ShadwChsr> if you know what the name is :)
[07:19:22] <SB-X> "unknown"
[07:19:27] <ShadwChsr> yeah :)
[07:20:07] <ShadwChsr> Little things like that really makes the game
[07:20:27] <ShadwChsr> If metroid was just another shooter, it would probably suck :)
[07:21:02] <ShadwChsr> I always like to know background in my games, and I've yet to see many games that give that background
[07:21:32] <SB-X> the music in metroid3 was good
[07:21:36] <ShadwChsr> why is that pile of bones there? Who built this dungeon? Why was this house burned down?
[07:22:35] <ShadwChsr> Why did the architect design the dungeon like a linear maze? :-)
[07:23:25] <ShadwChsr> Did I ever tell you my "banned" list from my personal game design(s)? :-)
[07:23:35] <ShadwChsr> It changes once and awhile, but theres a few core ones
[07:23:47] <Servus> like ultima underworld
[07:23:58] <Servus> gotta have Lore to know what an item really is
[07:24:14] <ShadwChsr> * No people stuck in gems * No airships * No rotating objects above player's hands * No ... after ... every ... word
[07:24:16] <ShadwChsr> ;)
[07:24:24] <Servus> 0 lore : "A longsword" 5 lore : "A magic longsword" 15 lore : "A longsword of Firedoom"
[07:24:30] <ShadwChsr> Cool :)
[07:24:54] <SB-X> Servus: that is similiar to an item identification document i started writing one time
[07:25:17] <SB-X> items are in classes and each successive class is shown the more knowledge you have of the object
[07:25:31] <SB-X> the "lore" is specific to the object instead of general
[07:26:02] <SB-X> and airships rock
[07:26:06] <ShadwChsr> booo hissss
[07:26:07] <ShadwChsr> ;)
[07:26:25] * SB-X throws chairs.
[07:26:48] <ShadwChsr> Though, i think the crystal one is more common
[07:27:08] <ShadwChsr> EVERY SINGLE JAPANEESE RPG has people stuck in crystals!!!! It makes me so angry!! lol
[07:27:16] <ShadwChsr> whats with the crystals, shesh.. some kinda freaky crystal fetish
[07:27:40] <ShadwChsr> Just when I think I'm playing a safe game, like Zelda, sure enough link gets stuck in a rotating crystal upon exiting a dungeon
[07:27:41] <ShadwChsr> shesh
[07:28:05] <ShadwChsr> </rant>
[07:28:28] <Servus> japanese rpgs = console rpgs, and console rpgs = trash( my opnion :)
[07:28:59] <SB-X> tales of phantasia didnt have people stuck in crystals
[07:29:07] <ShadwChsr> it probably did just in a side quest <g>
[07:29:08] <SB-X> but it had creatures in rings
[07:29:27] <SB-X> and a girl in something that looked like a floating crystal of energy
[07:29:36] <ShadwChsr> ahah! see
[07:29:42] <ShadwChsr> same thing :)
[07:29:51] <ShadwChsr> They always have girls stuck in some sort of inanimate energyish object
[07:30:04] <ShadwChsr> stucking their lifeforce or whatever
[07:30:08] <ShadwChsr> err sucking
[07:30:14] <SB-X> mana
[07:30:21] <SB-X> her mana was being sucked out
[07:30:32] <SB-X> and she was weakening, and trying to save the tree of life
[07:31:10] <ShadwChsr> And the bad guy who flies the airship put her there and its up to little 8 year old kid to rescue his 8 year old friend who's a girl and has boobs at that age(??? look at princess zelda?) from evil airship dude and shatter the gem
[07:31:11] <ShadwChsr> ;)
[07:31:37] <SB-X> no but the good guys get airbirds
[07:31:43] <SB-X> i think they were slightly older than 8 :)
[07:32:02] <SB-X> the bad guy lives in an air castle
[07:32:08] <ShadwChsr> And if its a 3d console game then all the characters have round low-poly heads with a 1 vertice nose and thats it (newer games like zelda wind walker included) :-)
[07:32:40] <ShadwChsr> Anyhow, I could rant on all night about console RPGs so I'd better top :)
[07:32:46] <ShadwChsr> err stop
[07:33:37] <ShadwChsr> People always say if you don't like it you're welcome to do better.. and thats why I'm trying ;)
[07:33:57] <ShadwChsr> (one of the reasons, anyways;)
[07:41:44] <Servus> mario has a goodly nose
[07:56:56] <SB-X> bye
[07:57:09] --- SB-X is now known as sbx-sleep
[08:09:52] <-- ShadwChsr has left IRC ()
[08:18:19] <Servus> hmmm... ive got a const struct method, and even though ive done all my #ifdefine's, it still tries to link it in every single file, and thus wont link:|
[08:49:35] <-- Matt_O has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[09:08:29] --> Matt_O has joined #exult
[09:13:44] <Yuv422> Hmm. I've been able to find Lord B's schedule in the schedule file. :)
[09:15:19] <Yuv422> I had to follow him around for a day. he sure does spend a lot of him time sitting on the throne. ;)
[09:15:31] <Yuv422> s/him/his
[09:16:07] <Yuv422> 8:00am wake up, throne sitting
[09:16:21] <Yuv422> 12:00 time for lunch.
[09:16:36] <Yuv422> about 2:00 back for more throne sitting
[09:17:35] <Yuv422> 7:00pm story time with sherry
[09:17:45] <Yuv422> 9:00pm bed time.
[09:18:19] <Servus> heh
[09:18:27] <Servus> there's an easier way..
[09:18:40] <Yuv422> ?
[09:18:44] <Servus> run ultima 7, and turn on the mode that has everyone's ID floating over their head:)
[09:18:55] <Servus> dunno if exult supports it, but ultima7-proper sure as heck does
[09:19:02] <Servus> think it's "NPC IDs"
[09:19:11] <Yuv422> hehe this is U6 I'm talking about here. :)
[09:19:22] <Servus> ohh
[09:19:40] <Servus> he's a thronesitter all right, where are the bathrooms in castle british anyways?
[09:20:24] <Yuv422> they probably just go in the moat.
[09:20:37] <Servus> thats how they used to do it, but they still had a dedicated room with a pipe
[09:20:50] <Servus> and there are tentacles in the moat! you can't just squat over it!
[09:21:19] <Yuv422> I don't think there are any nasties in the U6 moat.
[09:21:31] <Yuv422> could be wrong though.
[09:24:21] <Servus> still, squatting isn't proper for a lord!
[10:17:02] --> wjp has joined #exult
[10:17:02] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[10:17:12] <wjp> hi
[10:17:18] <Yuv422> hey
[10:19:30] <Servus> hi.
[10:19:35] <wjp> I committed some autoconf/automake things yesterday, as you may have noticed :-)
[10:19:48] <wjp> (and fixed a missing break in the keyhandling in Game.cpp)
[10:19:53] <Servus> i almost have my bloody quadtree working, this thing will kill me...
[10:19:53] <Yuv422> yes thanks for doing that.
[10:23:12] <wjp> np :-)
[10:23:52] <Kirben> Any way to run nuvie full screen ?
[10:24:14] <Yuv422> not yet
[10:31:57] <Yuv422> wjp: OSX has autoconf 2.52 :(
[10:33:23] <wjp> oh, just lower the number then :-)
[10:33:30] <Yuv422> ah k cool
[10:33:43] <wjp> I can't be sure it works with 2.52, though
[10:33:53] <wjp> (mainly because I don't know the differences between it and 2.54)
[10:41:21] <Yuv422> be back in a bit
[10:41:43] <Yuv422> I worked out the NPC schedule file BTW :)
[10:41:50] <wjp> nice :-)
[10:41:58] <Yuv422> so I can implement schedules now.
[10:42:04] <Yuv422> I'll tell you about it later.
[10:42:06] <Yuv422> cya
[11:14:44] <Servus> !!i can see something!!
[11:17:48] <Servus> almost!
[11:18:31] <Servus> *tapdances*, i can sleep now, out!
[11:18:33] <-- Servus has left IRC ()
[11:48:25] --> Quester has joined #exult
[11:48:30] <Quester> hi
[11:51:12] <Quester> hm
[11:51:24] <Quester> is sombody here?
[11:51:33] <Quester> I need help
[11:53:15] <Kirben> Whats problem ?
[11:54:19] <Quester> I translate U7 by adding russia symblos
[11:54:33] <Quester> I add it in fonts.vga
[11:54:45] <Quester> first symbol number 128
[11:55:02] <Quester> but symbols more than 127 is not shown
[11:55:13] <Quester> it there way to draw it?
[11:57:44] --> Darke has joined #exult
[11:57:57] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[11:58:01] <Quester> hm
[11:58:41] * Darke wavies and has *finally* got a stable ADSL connection back... after a week of mostly downtime.
[11:58:54] <Quester> heeeyy!!! it there way to use fonts number more than 127???
[11:59:35] --> Colourless has joined #Exult
[11:59:35] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Colourless
[11:59:45] <Darke> Umm... eh?
[12:00:01] <Quester> i add my symbols in font
[12:00:01] <Colourless> hi
[12:00:07] <Quester> and want to use it
[12:00:10] <Yuv422> hi guys
[12:00:20] * Darke decides he probably needs to read the weeks backlog of exultlogs before he can figure out what the heck of happening. *grin*
[12:00:23] <Darke> Hi Colourless!
[12:00:25] <Quester> but symbols more than 127 is not shown
[12:02:13] <Colourless> probably not supported by exult currently
[12:02:24] <Quester>
[12:07:35] <Yuv422> wjp: Your automake/autoconf scripts work fine on OS X. :)
[12:07:59] <Yuv422> just had to set the autoconf version down to 2.52
[12:14:02] * Quester excuse me, but I very need your help about exult
[12:15:03] <Darke> I can't really help you, sorry. Don't know how exult handles that bit at all.
[12:15:32] * Darke returns to hunting down the last week of stuff he's missed. *grin*
[12:15:50] <Yuv422> that was quick. ;)
[12:16:08] <Yuv422> ready for the quick quiz?
[12:16:23] <Colourless> what has Yuv442 been doing ?
[12:16:34] <Quester> I try talk with wjp, but hi in silence
[12:16:35] <Colourless> that Yuv422 actually :-)
[12:17:11] <Darke> Quester: wjp is probably at work at the moment, thus idle doing... well... work. *grin*
[12:17:23] <wjp> back now
[12:17:39] <Quester> hurrrrraaay :)
[12:17:51] <Quester> wjp, I very need help
[12:18:15] <Quester> I translate more texts, but its not shown
[12:19:15] <wjp> can you send me your fonts file and a sample bit of usecode?
[12:19:27] <Quester> ok,
[12:19:35] <Quester> your mail?
[12:19:56] <Quester> I not have usecode there, but i have a text,flx
[12:20:06] <wjp> wpalenst@math.leidenuniv.nl
[12:20:10] <wjp> text.flx is ok too
[12:21:23] * Darke wonders why people are trying to sell 'Soma' to exult-general, it's not Brave New World yet... at least I don't think so.
[12:21:50] <Colourless> because they are stupid spammers?
[12:21:59] <Quester> ok
[12:22:08] <Quester> sended
[12:24:46] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[12:24:46] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[12:24:54] <Quester> do you get it?
[12:25:01] * wjp nods
[12:25:03] <wjp> just got it
[12:25:04] <wjp> hi Max
[12:25:12] <Fingolfin> hi
[12:25:21] <Colourless> hi
[13:01:51] <-- Quester has left IRC ("BitchX Official WWW Site -- http://www.bitchx.com")
[13:02:11] <wjp> the problem with the font chars > 127 is that char is signed, btw
[13:02:24] <wjp> Quester's working on a patch to fix things :-)
[13:13:09] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("42")
[13:29:22] <Yuv422> I'm off to bed.
[13:29:24] <Yuv422> cya
[13:29:27] <wjp> night
[13:29:28] <-- Yuv422 has left IRC ("BitchX: its what's for lunch")
[13:29:29] <Colourless> cya
[13:58:48] <wjp> I think I'll go home
[13:58:53] <-- wjp has left IRC ("bbl")
[14:01:34] <-- Kirben has left IRC ("System Meltdown")
[14:36:19] --> wjp has joined #exult
[14:36:19] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[14:36:54] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[14:36:58] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[14:37:02] <wjp> hi
[14:37:20] <Colourless> hi
[14:37:22] <Colourless> and wb
[14:37:28] <Dominus> hi
[14:38:01] <Dominus> Colourless: now that you have an ati card and you joined ranks with koolsmokey, are you making glide drivers for your ati card? :-)
[14:39:24] <Dominus> seriously, how serious is your joining with koolsmokey?
[14:39:25] <Colourless> if i do any such things, it wont be with anyone else :-)
[14:39:45] <Dominus> he he
[14:40:01] <Colourless> well my time will not be focused on any glide stuff for 3dfx cards
[14:40:18] <Colourless> with no 3dfx card currently in my system it's not easy :-)
[14:40:19] <Dominus> that's what I figured
[14:40:49] <Dominus> and what about glide stuff for non-3dfx cards? :-)
[14:40:53] <Colourless> glide for non 3dfx cards... never say never....
[14:41:19] <Colourless> doing it is non trivial though, as you might expect
[14:41:50] <Dominus> I'm seriously considering buying a Ati 9700 Pro when there is enough money left next time the rent gets paid :-)
[14:42:34] <Dominus> have you checked out OpenGlide and how it performs on your new card?
[14:42:47] <Colourless> with that said, i have put lots of 'careful' thought into what would be required to developer a hypothetical glide driver for non 3dfx cards
[14:42:54] <Colourless> can't say i have
[14:43:38] <Colourless> my thoughts are though that opengl is the 'wrong' way of doing it...
[14:43:47] <Dominus> http://vogons.zetafleet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=636
[14:45:13] <Dominus> whatever you decide to do, I'm looking forward to be a tester if you want (when I get a new card that is :-))
[14:46:07] <Colourless> Freespace 2 is likely never to work with an OpenGL based wrapper at any usable speed :-)
[14:47:35] <Colourless> the problem with OpenGL is you don't have direct access to the hardware frame buffers. nor does it have the graphics card independance to properly support the entire voodoo pipeline
[14:48:21] <Colourless> details textures the way the voodoo cards did them, for example, requires lost of funky pixel shader code
[14:48:30] <Dominus> I can see the reasoning there
[14:49:25] <Colourless> there are a number of other pipeline features that also require pixel shader. As such, using Direct3D is a much better idea :-)
[14:50:17] <Dominus> I see
[14:50:32] <Dominus> you realy put some thought into that
[14:50:56] <Dominus> makes me even more thinking about getting an ati card :-)
[14:51:31] <Dominus> btw, did you see the problems Dark-star and me are/were having with the video modes on XP and Exult
[14:51:37] <Dominus> yesterday logs
[14:51:57] <Dominus> night hours
[14:52:22] <wjp> that surface/scaled_surface/unscaled_surface in toggle_fullscreen really confuses me :-)
[14:52:26] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/something.txt - thought = yes
[14:52:43] <Dominus> and some description in http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=697550&group_id=2335&atid=102335
[14:52:47] <Colourless> ugh, i didn't make much sense to me when i wrote it. it was a hack that was imo better than the previous hack
[14:52:57] <Colourless> (refering to the 3 surface in exult)
[14:53:03] <Dominus> Colourless: there is some starnage readme in your glidexp 1016 package btw
[14:53:27] <Dominus> problems_jim.txt
[14:53:38] <Dominus> starnage=strange
[14:54:38] <Colourless> hmm, how did that get there :-)
[14:55:06] <Dominus> I think you wanted the changelog in there
[14:55:34] <Colourless> hmm, no i didn't. that file isn't supposed to be there
[14:56:02] <Dominus> he he
[14:56:30] <Colourless> must have accidently dragged it into the directory that i zipped
[14:56:33] <Dominus> anyway, is exult changing video mode, scaler, fullscreen/windowes, work correctly for you?
[14:57:27] <Colourless> hmm, no
[14:57:37] <Colourless> it 'used' to work :-)
[14:59:53] <Dominus> for me it didn't work, then I changed the frequencies that the 3dfx drivers will use and it started to work again
[15:00:01] <Colourless> hmm, it's working for me now
[15:00:29] <Colourless> might be broken from the exult menu...
[15:00:39] <wjp> yeah, it's broken from the main menu
[15:00:42] <wjp> been that way for ages
[15:01:00] <Dominus> it also doesn't work for me when I set the compatibility mode of exult.exe to windows 98/ME
[15:01:03] <Colourless> yes works in game, broken in the exult menu
[15:01:45] <Dominus> for dark-star it doesn't work in-game
[15:02:22] <Colourless> well, it's not an exult problem
[15:02:30] <Colourless> (execpt for the exult menu one :-) )
[15:03:10] <Dominus> that's what I think too as it started to work for me again, without doing anything to exult but tweaking my drivers
[15:04:30] <Dominus> except, Dark-Star doesn't want to believe me :-)
[15:05:02] <Colourless> well, Dark-Star is wrong... WRONG I TELL YOU! :-)
[15:05:28] <Colourless> exults scaling related code hasn't changed in a long while, and no other users have complained :-)
[15:05:28] <Dominus> Colourless: try setting exult to windows 98 compatibility mode and you might encounter the problems I speak of
[15:06:13] <Dominus> (though it works correwctly in real Windows 98 :-))
[15:06:25] <Dominus> damn spelling mistakes
[15:06:52] <Colourless> nothing i can do about that
[15:07:01] <Colourless> DirectX i think is doing that
[15:08:34] <Dominus> not much I want you to do about, just wanted to show you what Dark-Star is experiencing
[15:09:15] <Dominus> I'm closing the bug as it is not Exult doing the bad stuff
[15:12:23] <Colourless> in cause you were wondering, that something.txt that i posted a url to before is some documented ramblings by me about how to emulate various 'features' of voodoo cards under direct3d
[15:12:29] <Colourless> s/cause/case/
[15:12:48] <Dominus> I did get that if not much else of that document :-)
[15:14:16] --> Ember has joined #exult
[15:15:18] <Dominus> hi ember
[15:16:34] <-- Darke was kicked from #exult by Colourless (You are not wanted anymore)
[15:17:05] --- Ember is now known as Darke
[15:17:09] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[15:17:37] * Darke grumbles at his net-connection seems to be still a little... intermittent. *grin*
[15:18:14] <Dominus> I hope you enjoyed my little dialog editing I did for that Darke character int he SF-Isle patch :-)
[15:18:37] <Colourless> Dominus: i have actually considered that writing a software glide renderer is a 'technically' interesting thing to do :-)
[15:19:10] <Dominus> well, beats getting his nose broken, or?
[15:19:12] <Dominus> :-)
[15:19:19] <Dominus> how did that happen btw?
[15:19:47] <Darke> Dominus: *earperk* Haven't seen it yet. Been almost completely net-less for the past week or so. *grin*
[15:20:23] <Dominus> look at the usecode.uc file in the content/islefaq dir :-)
[15:20:39] <Dominus> it should be familiar to you and Colourless
[15:20:56] <wjp> Colourful, you mean ;-)
[15:21:13] <Dominus> he he
[15:21:31] * Darke blinkblinks and torments his net connection some more by adding cvs to his list of things downloading simultaneously. *Grin*
[15:22:03] <Dominus> for the record: I want my broadband connection back!!!! I hate dial-up!!!!!
[15:22:08] <Colourless> i take it you don't get cvs emails for exult
[15:22:18] <Colourless> welcome to my world!
[15:22:34] <Darke> Dominus: Muhahahahha!
[15:22:46] <Colourless> don't complain... it could be much worse
[15:23:08] <Dominus> yes, I could be stuck with a 2.8 k connection :-)
[15:23:29] <Colourless> it could still be worse than that... you could be forced to use AOL :-)
[15:24:13] <Dominus> Darke: that "(Dominus: Just for reference, _NO_ this is not going into sourceforge island as a conversation. *grin*)" when you and Colourless had that conversation surely triggered me and I kept it for ages before now adding parts of it :-)
[15:24:59] <Colourless> which conversation was that... we've had a number of strange conversations :-)
[15:25:21] <Dominus> Colourless: AOL is not that bad, t has its upsides for my mom, especially when she travels
[15:26:02] <Dominus> Colourless: I don't remember when that was, but you did a real nice name,job, and so on conversation with darke answering
[15:26:36] <Colourless> oh, *that* one :-)
[15:27:01] <Dominus> AOL, now even has imap (though in beta and not supported) and that sure beats using the AOL software's mail manager :-)
[15:27:22] <Dominus> <Colourless> hi
[15:27:30] <Dominus> <Colourless> little rabbit, i said hello
[15:27:38] <Dominus> * Darke bows. Greetings, oh great denier of being coloured.
[15:27:50] <Dominus> <Colourless> Greetings all mighty bunny
[15:27:59] <Dominus> * Colourless seriously thinks he, like the bunny, is quite insane
[15:28:03] * Darke grumbles. Why does no one ever listen to him when he says "no"?
[15:28:14] <Dominus> and so on....
[15:28:24] * Darke seems to remember that one. *grin*
[15:28:30] <Darke> Dominus: Evil creature!
[15:28:51] <Colourless> Darke: what is to be done with the foul beast?
[15:29:03] <Dominus> hmm, I'm fleeing
[15:29:05] <Dominus> bbl
[15:29:09] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("enough for now")
[15:30:14] <Colourless> hah! our terror campaign seems to have worked, for now
[15:30:35] * Darke laughs!
[15:31:08] <Colourless> does that mean we are terrorists?
[15:48:27] <Darke> Umm... *ponder* Probably not. Just intimidation experts. *nod*
[15:52:49] * Darke must admit he quite likes it though. *grin*
[15:53:08] * wjp backs away from the rabid rabbit
[15:55:52] * Darke looks innocent and harmless.
[15:56:12] <wjp> no you don't :-)
[16:00:13] * Darke tries valiently to look innocent and harmless then!
[16:14:19] * Darke just wandered into the loungeroom to notice his flatmate is watching one of his Dr Who DVDs, which he could hear from the other room. The only problem as such was that he was watching them *so* intently that the Evil Windows Screensaver came on, and he seems to be watching that instead, if he wasn't... well... asleep. *grin* Most amusing.
[16:15:04] <Colourless> hehe
[16:15:29] <Colourless> what dvd player lets a screensaver activate?
[16:16:05] <Darke> An old version of win dvd. Pre winxp and post win2k, seems to have a few bugs. *grin*
[16:17:04] <Darke> Not that I'd ever notice since I disable the evil thing by default, I don't want to wander up to a machine to notice it announcing that it's corrupted to all the world! I mean, what would the *neighbours* say! *shockedlook*
[16:17:05] <Colourless> stopping screensavers from activating requires all of 3 lines of code added to the windowproc
[16:17:34] <Colourless> OMG, he's normal?
[16:18:03] <Darke> I dunno, it is displaying to a TV, rather then a monitor, but still I don't think that would make a difference.
[16:18:40] <Colourless> playing Exult on a tv is kind of neat :-)
[16:18:52] <Colourless> especially a nice big one :-)
[16:18:52] <Darke> Given his current job was as a linux systems admin, I'm guessing that no, he's not quite normal. Just lazy in reguards to cleaning up the evils of windows on a GameOS box. *grin*
[16:19:11] * Darke has played it on a projector system before. *grin*
[16:19:24] <Colourless> hehe
[16:19:29] <Colourless> you have me beat there :-)
[16:21:15] <Darke> I borrowed a COW at uni to test exult on one time, just for the 'coolness' factor. Trying to play for an extended period would result in a sore neck and arms for holding yourself at such an odd position given the length of the cables. *grin*
[16:21:46] <Colourless> hehe
[16:21:48] <Colourless> that
[16:21:54] <Colourless> is a problem with computers + tv
[16:22:20] <Colourless> cable length isn't really long enough.
[16:22:56] <Darke> Unless you've got a comfy couch or beanbag, and wireless mouse/keyboard. I'm really not fussed with it anyway, since my eyesight is just horrid to begin with. I'll stick with a 21" CRT or 19" LCD anyday. *grin*
[16:22:56] <Colourless> with IR/RC keyboards and mouses though, it's a bit different
[16:25:26] <Colourless> the cable on my keyboard is pretty long. it's probably long enought that i could sit on my couch with it. of course that would end up with the computer being in the middle of the room with cables going in all directions :-)
[16:26:48] * Darke looks at his room, then at the lounge room, then around the rest of the place. You wouldn't notice it in this place honestly. *grin*
[16:26:50] <Colourless> nice thing too, the keyboard has a usb hub in it
[16:27:09] <Colourless> means i don't need to have the mouse run over to the pc :-)
[16:27:30] <Darke> Enough power to run a decent mouse though? Flatmate has a usb keyboard but it's hub just isn't powerful enough to run the mouse a the same time.
[16:27:51] <Colourless> well, lets see....
[16:29:04] <Colourless> seems to be working fine
[16:29:59] <Darke> Cool. His laser mouse just refuses to light up for his keyboard. Nice to know there's at least one keyboard around that'll handle it. *grin*
[16:30:04] <Colourless> then again, maybe not
[16:30:23] <Colourless> hmmm, was having problems in the right port, but the left seems ok
[16:30:25] * Darke actually has a usb keyboard with a PS/2 plug at the back of it. Both surreal and cool at the same time.
[16:30:41] <Darke> (To plug a PS/2 mouse in that is.)
[16:30:42] <Colourless> my keyboard has both :-)
[16:30:50] <Colourless> hmm, no not like that
[16:31:06] <Colourless> my key board has both ps2 and usb connections
[16:31:15] <Colourless> sounds like you have a mac keyboard :-)
[16:31:47] <Colourless> what brand keyboard does your flatmate have>
[16:31:57] <Darke> *nod* My USB keyboard came with a USB->PS/2 adaptor too. This one was just old enough that it was in the first gen set of usb keyboards released. So it makes sense in a way.
[16:33:29] <Colourless> the keyboard itself can run with both connectors at the same time. If it's plugged into the PS2 port the keyboard will use that, but the USB hub will still function
[16:33:44] <Darke> No idea what brand my flatmate's keyboard is, I can't find a label on it, it's small like a laptop keyboard or one of those 'happy hacker' type keyboards.
[16:33:57] <Darke> Cool.
[16:34:29] <Colourless> my keyboard was forged in the fires of Mount Doom or something (as in it's a MS keyboard) :-)
[16:34:54] <Darke> Eeeeeeevil!
[16:35:33] * Darke is currently typing on a Logitech one, he tends to use just stock $20 generic brand keyboards though, this just felt rather nice.
[17:31:35] * Darke yawns and decides that sleep is calling. Night!
[17:31:50] <Colourless> cya small one
[17:32:27] <Colourless> and in the future, adivse your flatmate that windows screensavers are really bad tv viewing :-)
[17:32:44] * Darke boggles slightly as he walks out the door after learning newest addition to the 'Hello Kitty' family or products, "Puchi Puchi Wanko" a cute puppy balancing a strawberry on it's head. *blinkie*
[17:33:07] <Darke> Oh, certainly! I'm going to *have* to remind him of this tommorrow. *grin*
[17:35:29] * Darke finally snoozes.
[17:35:32] --- Darke is now known as DarkeZzz
[17:35:36] <Colourless> and don't let him use all the war coverage as an excuse. :-)
[17:36:12] * DarkeZzz snickers.
[18:21:21] * Colourless is going
[18:21:23] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("casts invisibility")
[18:57:48] --> andt has joined #exult
[18:58:27] <andt> question: is exult "internationalizable"?
[18:58:48] <wjp> we've been talking about that a bit lately
[18:58:58] <wjp> basically, yes, but it'll take some groundwork
[18:59:38] <andt> does the original u7 font have any non-ascii characters, or do/did you have to add them yourselves?
[18:59:59] <wjp> you have to add them yourself
[19:00:37] <andt> so are the data files Unicode or something?
[19:00:41] <wjp> no
[19:01:21] <wjp> do you want to translate exult itself, or U7?
[19:01:36] <wjp> or a custom game?
[19:01:47] <andt> the u7 game
[19:02:05] <wjp> did you look at si-french?
[19:02:25] <andt> yeah, I'm interested in how that works
[19:02:37] <wjp> you'll want to talk to artaxerxes about that
[19:02:47] <wjp> or you could look on the forum for some of the past threads on the topic
[19:02:53] <andt> basically, I'm thinking of added that to xu4, and I'm looking for some ideas
[19:03:01] <wjp> ah
[19:03:15] <wjp> well, si-french replaces all the data files
[19:03:44] <wjp> the necessary accented characters are in the very low character range (0x01, 0x02, ...)
[19:03:54] <wjp> (this is like in the 'official' translated BG)
[19:04:00] <andt> so the text is still 7-bit?
[19:04:04] <wjp> not the most perfect solution
[19:04:05] <wjp> yes
[19:04:58] <wjp> I have very little experience with i18n in the real world, unfortunately
[19:06:15] <andt> UTF-8 would be ideal, i think
[19:06:23] <andt> but lots of work, probably
[19:06:43] <wjp> probably, yes :-)
[19:08:14] <wjp> although it probably depends on how you setup your fonts
[19:11:02] <andt> at least the accented characters exist already
[19:11:13] <andt> was there a german version of u7?
[19:11:37] <wjp> yeah, I think so
[19:12:51] <andt> sounds like they localized u7 but not si
[19:13:04] <wjp> si was translated into spanish
[19:13:24] <wjp> (although the translators left debugging symbols in the resulting usecode :-) )
[19:14:25] <andt> lol, probably good for exult
[19:18:19] <wjp> bbl, dinner
[19:49:30] --- sbx-sleep is now known as sbx
[19:49:34] <sbx> :o
[19:49:36] <-- sbx has left IRC ("X-Chat [1.6.4]")
[20:29:03] <wjp> back
[20:51:11] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[20:51:15] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[20:51:23] <wjp> hi again
[20:51:45] <Dominus> hi
[20:51:47] <Dominus> are they gone?
[20:51:49] <Dominus> won't hurt me now, I guess :-)
[20:51:51] <wjp> :-)
[20:52:32] * Dominus guesses such conversations must seem pretty obscure to people that haven't read the log or haven't been here today :-)
[20:58:31] --> sbx has joined #exult
[20:58:46] <Dominus> hi pyro-x
[20:58:49] <Dominus> eh, sbx
[20:59:03] <sbx> yo
[20:59:33] <Dominus> so, you people seriously want a general ultima forum?
[20:59:44] <sbx> no i think its fine
[20:59:58] <sbx> the way it is now
[21:00:38] <Dominus> I like it that way too
[21:05:17] <sbx> ah
[21:05:25] <sbx> nuvie doesn't need the PBBuild files any more to build
[21:05:41] <wjp> I added autoconf/automake support last night
[21:05:57] <sbx> great
[21:06:02] <sbx> i still havn't upgraded those tools :)
[21:06:18] <Dominus> where is yuvie, he should come soon. actors look soooo great!
[21:06:44] <sbx> where is lb?
[21:06:58] <sbx> oh on the throne
[21:07:00] <sbx> hehe
[21:08:30] <Dominus> and I'd really like to see more!!!
[21:08:35] <Dominus> in nuvie I mean
[21:08:44] <sbx> i guess those white dots are eggs?
[21:08:52] <Dominus> yes
[21:08:56] <wjp> yuv422 mentioned he decoded npc schedules this morning (european time)
[21:08:57] <sbx> like where creatures would spawn
[21:09:00] <wjp> sbx: yes
[21:09:19] <wjp> so I guess we'll be seeing schedules soon :-)
[21:10:06] <Dominus> at this rate we will have a playable nuvie long before we have a playable pentagram :-)
[21:10:19] <wjp> would be nice :-)
[21:10:31] <Dominus> noooooo
[21:10:40] <wjp> then I could play U6 to pass the time I'm not spending coding on pentagram ;-)
[21:10:47] <Dominus> then it would take even longer as everyone would be playing nuvie :-)
[21:10:52] <Dominus> he he
[21:10:55] <Dominus> same thought
[21:11:07] <Dominus> today I got my Martian Dreams
[21:11:34] <Dominus> Origin used to have so detailed manuals and fun stuff to read with their games
[21:12:14] <wjp> Sierra's QfG games had nice manuals too... (I just played through QfG1-5 again :-) )
[21:12:36] <Dominus> never had one of those
[21:13:18] <wjp> 1-3 play fine in dosbox; 4 plays in W98 but too fast (had to disable L1/L2 CPU cache to get it playable in some areas); 5 runs ok in W98
[21:13:26] <wjp> dosbox is really nice :-)
[21:13:55] <Dominus> can't wait for them to emulate more hardware
[21:14:18] <sbx> i did not install dosbox because you said it was slow
[21:14:24] <sbx> does it run u6?
[21:14:32] <Dominus> yes
[21:14:33] <wjp> slowly :-)
[21:14:48] <Dominus> I think it is okay
[21:14:58] <wjp> actually, I don't think I tried U6
[21:15:19] <sbx> i was thinking, since u6 runs so fast on computers now, maybe it is closer to normal speed in dosbox
[21:15:24] <sbx> but maybe not
[21:15:36] <Dominus> the nice thing is that it emulates pc-speakers and therefor you have relatively good sfx
[21:15:53] <wjp> SB/adlib too
[21:16:14] <Dominus> yeah, that too
[21:16:23] <wjp> hm, no, I remembered wrong; U6 speed is great
[21:16:59] <Dominus> but my point is that sfx on XP is horrible but with dosbox it is quite good (for pc-speaker sfx, that is :-))
[21:17:18] <sbx> ill try it then
[21:17:24] <sbx> i see it now, nuvie will have auto-support for exult sfx packs
[21:17:58] <Dominus> oh, that would be quite nice
[21:18:18] * Dominus installs his "brand new" martian dream
[21:19:16] <Dominus> damn that installer stops my cd playback as it tries to access the cd-drive
[21:22:55] <Dominus> cool the disks were still ok
[21:23:54] <wjp> bbl
[21:32:28] <Dominus> gone for good
[21:32:31] <Dominus> bye
[21:34:10] <sbx> bye
[21:34:10] <-- Dominus has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[21:51:40] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[21:51:44] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[21:52:14] <Dominus> he he
[21:52:16] <Dominus> back although I said, I wouldn't return :-)
[21:54:37] <sbx> wb
[21:55:24] <sbx> im missing something with dosbox config
[21:56:06] <Dominus> ?
[21:56:14] <sbx> i mount the ultima6 directory as c: and can switch to c:, and if i type dir it shows the proper contents but if i type "dir ." it is empty, and i cant access any of the files
[21:57:05] <Dominus> are you sure you gave proper permissions for that dir (you people seem to have problems with permissions)
[21:57:37] <sbx> hmm
[21:58:16] <sbx> total access granted for all files in ultima6
[21:59:46] <Dominus> maybe try to point to the dir above the u6 dir
[22:00:01] <Dominus> and then try accessing the u6 dir
[22:01:18] <Dominus> works for me btw
[22:01:53] <sbx> i cant access the files in that dir, but it can see them with "dir"
[22:02:04] <sbx> ill try upcase
[22:03:42] <sbx> ah
[22:03:54] <sbx> it works!
[22:04:06] <sbx> thought i had tried that already
[22:04:18] <Dominus> he he
[23:00:13] --> Servus has joined #exult
[23:05:10] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("enough for now")
[23:42:43] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")
[23:43:44] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[23:43:44] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Kirben