#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 21 May 2002 (GMT)

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[01:30:04] <SB-X> howdy
[01:32:20] <SB-X> bbs
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[01:33:52] * Darke blinkblinks. That was quick.
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[05:06:13] <MrPaul> well its been an interesting conversation everybody... very livley! but, alas, I must retire for the evening...
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[10:21:29] <wjp> hi
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[10:23:22] <Darke> Hi.
[10:24:37] * Darke pawwaves and hops off to bed. *grin*
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[13:00:03] <Colourless> hi
[13:28:44] <wjp|work> hi
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[13:42:30] <oube> hello all
[13:42:40] <Colourless> hi
[13:42:48] <oube> Anybody want to help me with my exult install problems?:)
[13:43:09] <oube> Just copied my ULTIMA7 folder to /home/oube/ULTIMA7 off the collectors CD
[13:43:22] <wjp|work> hi
[13:43:42] <wjp|work> quick question: did you make the directories writable?
[13:43:50] <oube> i had to disable midi to get it to run... now i get to the create a new character screen... and i get this error
[13:43:55] <oube> oh probably not:)
[13:44:08] <wjp|work> (that's what I've done wrong dozens of times when copying things from cd :-) )
[13:44:13] <oube> whats the way to do that recusively? chmod -R "what number goes here":)
[13:44:29] <wjp|work> you probably want chmod -R u+w
[13:44:29] <oube> yeah thats sound like my error:)
[13:44:55] <wjp|work> you can't specify it with a single number, because directories and files need to get different permissions
[13:45:17] <oube> hahah!:)
[13:45:20] <oube> sweet:)
[13:45:33] <oube> "Tis Horrible!"
[13:45:34] <oube> hehe:)
[13:46:13] <oube> oh thats good to remember when one of those geeks makes fun of me for not using numbers with chmod...:)
[13:46:47] <oube> now i just have to get midi working... any suggestions on that?
[13:47:42] <wjp|work> what goes wrong when you enable it?
[13:49:08] <oube> it was giving me an error before.. now it runs... but no music
[13:49:31] <wjp|work> do you have timidity installed?
[13:49:56] <oube> oh maybe not.. you need software midi?
[13:51:34] <oube> TiMidity++-2.11.3.tar.gz a good one to install?
[13:53:53] <oube> sorry guess you're working:) or playing exult at work:)
[13:54:33] * Colourless thinks that neither of us knows that much about Timidity
[13:54:58] <wjp|work> I installed an .rpm and it Just Worked(tm) :-)
[13:56:38] <oube> hehe:) well if source doesn't work i'll do that:) where did you get the rpm? did you get one of those 30 MB eawpatch files too?
[13:57:02] <Colourless> you'll need eawpatch
[13:57:12] <oube> so is exult stable enough to play ultima7 from beginning to end??
[13:57:22] <Colourless> yes it is
[13:57:33] <Colourless> both U7's can be played from beginning to end
[13:58:01] <oube> wow thats really great
[13:58:35] <oube> thanks guys
[14:02:07] <wjp|work> np :-)
[14:24:18] <oube> ok i got timidity working.. in the exult dir typing timidity u7midi plays the pretty u7 music.. but i get no music in the game:(
[14:24:28] <wjp|work> did you compile exult yourself?
[14:24:39] <oube> yes.. do i need to recompile it?
[14:24:59] <wjp|work> probably, yes. You can see if exult is compiled with timidity with exult --version
[14:25:43] <oube> should have timidity in compile time options? i just have Zip support and studio
[14:26:59] <Colourless> just so you don't forget you'll need to rerun configure
[14:27:52] <oube> yeah just did that... how do i configure not to build the studio..(it takes a long time to compile that extra, no?)
[14:28:38] <wjp|work> --disable-exult-studio, I think
[14:28:48] <oube> checking for SDL - version >= 1.2.0... yes
[14:28:48] <oube> checking whether to enable timidity... yes
[14:28:48] <oube> checking for timidity... (cached) not found
[14:28:48] <oube> checking whether to enable kmid... no
[14:28:48] <oube> checking for zlib.h... (cached) yes
[14:28:58] <oube> is that what i should get or still wrong?
[14:30:03] <wjp|work> you have to remove config.cache
[14:30:31] <oube> thanks.. heh.. i actually just toasted the source dir and reunpacked it:)
[14:31:53] <oube> k cool. it found it..
[14:32:35] <oube> so are you guys on the dev team for exult?
[14:33:25] <Colourless> yep we are
[14:35:49] <oube> cool.. well thanks.. i've been looking for a decent rpg to play in linux.. and now i have one:) know of any others?
[14:39:48] <wjp|work> hm, can't think of any right away
[14:40:56] <oube> yeah... i think they are quite rare... well anyways.. can i ask you guys for hints on U7 if i get stuck?:) eek.. i'll leave you too your work now.. and patiently wait for exult to compile
[15:32:40] <wjp|work> time for me to go home
[15:32:42] <wjp|work> bbl
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[15:32:50] <Colourless> cya
[15:34:50] <oube> hmmm.... still no sound
[15:35:02] <oube> any ideas Colourless?
[15:35:15] <Colourless> did configure find Timidity?
[15:35:29] <oube> yep...
[15:36:17] <Colourless> hmmm, i don't know what else to do. i don't use linux
[15:37:13] <oube> oh ok:)
[15:37:58] <oube> I think its a problem with redhat..
[15:38:11] <oube> its wierd though.. coz last time it was creating that u7midi file... and now its not
[15:38:21] <Colourless> do you get any sound at all in exult?
[15:38:44] <Colourless> i.e. do you get speech in the intro
[15:39:18] <oube> no
[15:39:38] <Colourless> hmm
[15:39:42] <Colourless> then it's not a midi problem
[15:39:44] <oube> like Avatar!! avatar! nothin...
[15:40:03] <Colourless> if you are getting no sound at all, the problem is elsewhere
[15:40:29] <oube> well my sound works in other sdl games... like tux racer, etc...
[15:45:07] <oube> Colourless: whoa.. do i need the sound packs fromt he website.. if i have the complete game?
[15:45:32] <Colourless> if you want in game sound effects you will need sound packs
[15:45:55] <Colourless> but it doesn't appear that sound is working for you at all
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[15:54:20] <oube> wjp: appears i have no sound working at all
[15:54:30] <Colourless> wb
[15:54:51] <oube> wb? whats that mean?
[15:55:08] <wjp> wb = welcome back
[15:55:15] <oube> ah:) wb:)
[15:55:33] <wjp> no sound at all? not even the guardian speech in the intro?
[15:56:21] <oube> yeah
[15:57:25] <oube> thought maybe i'd erase my custom build and try using alien to convert the debian deb to an rpm and try it... don't really know how to properly remove my build from /usr/local though
[15:57:40] <wjp> just run 'make uninstall'
[15:58:11] <wjp> anything in console output about sound?
[15:58:44] <oube> ok thats simple... k i'll look for console output... maybe i post it to #flood if i don't see anything
[16:01:23] <oube> k look at #flood
[16:01:25] <oube> i think it might be the mcop thing... i had a problem with a program even running at all because of that mcop thing the other day
[16:01:57] <oube> oops:) suppose you have to join #flood before i put it there:)
[16:01:58] <oube> hehe:)
[16:02:09] <wjp> um, yes :-)
[16:03:10] <wjp> hm, that mcop warning sounds interesting
[16:03:59] <oube> mcop has to do with arts... which is compiled into my SDL
[16:04:15] <oube> by redhat of course...
[16:04:43] <oube> i'm usually in debian.. but i had some redhat homework to do so here i am with a redhat install...
[16:07:13] <wjp> I'm afraid I don't really have any experience with mcop
[16:08:38] <oube> yeah.. i think its just a bug in redhat.. and i need to get back to debian...
[16:08:55] <oube> or find libsdl rpms without arts support
[16:13:05] <oube> oki doki.. installed libsdl from libsdl.org... its making output now.. but its umm.. what would you say.. crackly up:)
[16:14:17] <Colourless> SB Live with OSS?
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[16:15:32] <oube> SB Live for sure... not OSS though i don't think... its the root level kernel module...
[16:15:54] <oube> oh you know it might be... coz i haven't compiled my own kernel yet...
[16:16:08] <Colourless> it's a known problem
[16:16:11] <Colourless> it's in the FAQ
[16:16:39] <Colourless> you need to use ALSA
[16:16:41] <oube> yeah it is... sound soundcore, etc... so i'll compile a new kernel with just emu10k1...
[16:16:48] <oube> oh alsa?
[16:17:13] <oube> ok.. i'll look into it here...
[16:17:55] <oube> brb... compiled a kernel last week.. will try that..
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[17:48:01] <Dominus> hi
[17:48:05] * Dominus is slowly reading up on the last logs and ML mails
[17:48:08] <Colourless> hi
[18:05:25] <Dominus> hm, why is everyone so hot on my port:1433 all of a sudden?
[18:06:00] <Colourless> cause port 1433 can be exploited
[18:07:03] <Dominus> I guessed that but why all of a sudden? (or unless someone figured out a new exploit and people are curios right now)
[18:08:10] <Colourless> cause they are morons?
[18:08:18] <Dominus> hmm
[18:08:22] * Dominus considers that
[18:08:31] * Dominus thinks Colourless is right
[18:08:42] <Colourless> You aren't running a MS SQL server, so it won't do anything
[18:09:50] <Dominus> After the initial terror when I installed a firewall and got sooo many port scannings I'm not worried that much anymore
[18:09:59] <Colourless> http://techupdate.zdnet.com/techupdate/stories/main/0,14179,2826892,00.html
[18:10:10] * Dominus was really worried at first (three years ago)
[18:10:14] <Colourless> there are probably other better sources of info :-)
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[18:35:47] --- Darke|afk is now known as Darke
[19:21:58] <Darke> *grin* Nice quote: "If you give someone a program, you will frustrate them for a day; if you teach them how to program, you will frustrate them for a lifetime."
[19:22:20] <Dominus> he he
[19:23:52] * Darke was actually wondering were he had heard that before, and just tripped over it again on a "How to write unmaintainable code" page he had visited previously. *grin* It's all the more pertitant since he's been teaching someone to code recently...
[19:32:09] <Dominus> brb
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[20:19:55] <x-bs> howdy
[20:20:19] <Colourless> hi
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[20:28:21] <Dominus> hi again
[20:28:32] <wjp> hi
[20:28:34] <Darke> Hi.
[20:28:40] <Colourless> your 'brb' are like mine :-)
[20:28:53] <Colourless> wb :-)
[20:29:11] * Darke pawwaves to the pyromaniac hiding in the corner.
[20:29:32] <Dominus> wjp, Colourless, if I were to make faces for the patch could these be in the style of SI (67x75 pixels)?
[20:30:12] <Colourless> the wouldn't fit with what is currently used
[20:30:28] <Dominus> so use the smaller BG size?
[20:30:30] <Colourless> at least as far as I know
[20:30:46] <Colourless> smaller size is more consistant
[20:32:16] <Dominus> ok, then. Since I've been gone I scanned in a picture of me and made it SI-size (will change to BG size)
[20:33:02] <Dominus> I'm thinking of adding a /faces to /content and will ask the other memebrs of the team and those we have in the patch to contribute pictures
[20:33:06] <Dominus> what do you think?
[20:33:37] * Darke will hunt down a photo of a black lagomorph. *grin*
[20:33:47] * x-bs gives Darke a radish.
[20:33:49] <Colourless> do they have to partiularily realistic? :-)
[20:34:43] <Darke> I suspect if you can locate an interesting Public Domain picture of a face for yourself it would be appropriate. *grin*
[20:34:44] <Dominus> don't think they have to be - though 'I' would like to have realistic pictures in it...
[20:35:36] * Darke has neither a scanner nor digital camera at paw. So you're not likely to get a 'real' photo out of him. *grin*
[20:36:13] <Dominus> it's not something I would want right away but in time...
[20:51:20] * Darke shudders as he locates info about how to define a new %? type in a printf/fprintf using a gcc extension. How... icky.
[20:54:18] * Darke lightbulbs and thinks that presents a _wonderful_ way or writing unmaintainable code using printfs. Perhaps he should look into it...
[20:54:38] * Colourless thinks perhaps not
[20:56:20] <wjp> printf("%solution\n", problem); ?
[20:56:22] <Darke> Why? It would be a lovely addition to that "How to Write Unmaintainable Code" page. *grin*
[20:56:59] <wjp> redefining libc commands with preloads is fun too :-)
[20:57:02] <Colourless> it really would be a nice nightmare to work with
[20:57:41] <Colourless> there is no why that it would be obvious what %solution is meant to do
[20:57:51] <Colourless> s/why/way/
[20:58:28] <Darke> *nodnod* Especially if you can just 'overload' one type with another at different points in the function, like havint %W print Widget data at one place, then %W print a string at another, or print Widget data in another format at another. The nightmare is endless. *grin*
[20:58:50] <Darke> You can only overload single characters 'unfortunately'. *grin*
[20:59:01] <Colourless> well, it wouldn't even have to actually print anything
[20:59:15] <Colourless> if you pass a pointer to an object to printf, you could do anything you want
[20:59:50] <Darke> Yep. *grin* It could setup the data for the next pointer going to printf, there's just so many evil possibilities you could use with it. *grin*
[21:01:27] * Darke guesses the thought put into the extension was along the lines of "Hey! If c++ can do it with their streams, why not us with printf?" and it rapidly progressed downhill from there. *grin*
[21:02:24] <Colourless> where is this wonderous documentation?
[21:03:40] <Darke> `info -f libc printf` pulls it up as the first thing I find. *grin*
[21:04:19] <Colourless> well, gee, if that half useless for me, i don't know what is
[21:04:31] <Colourless> s/that half/that aint half/
[21:04:43] * Darke was actually looking for what operator for printf does what he now knows the '*' operator does, at the time. *grin*
[21:04:59] <Darke> I'll see if someone's webbed this monstrosity. *grin*
[21:05:27] <Dominus> wjp: is it normal that you can't save png in the Gimp as shp?
[21:06:43] <wjp> you need to convert it to indexed first, probably
[21:06:59] <wjp> what I usually do is open an existing shp file, and copy-paste the new image into it
[21:07:20] <Dominus> yeah, that's what I just did
[21:08:32] <wjp> and it doesn't work? hm.. any error messages?
[21:08:42] <Dominus> no, that worked :-)
[21:08:49] <wjp> ah, ok. misunderstood :-)
[21:09:16] * Colourless misunderstood as well
[21:09:37] * Dominus would have misunderstood as well
[21:10:07] <Dominus> only problem was that for some reason it created two layers then... (but that is easily fixed)
[21:11:18] <Darke> Colourless: This: http://superman.spamaps.org/debian-cheese/source/glibc-2.2.4/glibc-2.2.4/manual/libc.info-18 and -17 also has a bit of information (-18 has the example) Just search for 'register_printf_function'.
[21:11:47] <wjp> I think the gimp plugin is very 'stupid' when it comes to saving. It doesn't automatically convert anything to the proper format
[21:11:58] <wjp> (i.e., it doesn't flatten or convert to the right colourdepth)
[21:12:21] <wjp> (um.. never mind the 'flatten' part... it will create multiple frames if there's multiple layers)
[21:14:19] <Colourless> Darke: hmm, nice
[21:14:59] <Colourless> can it be used to extend sprintf though?
[21:16:36] <Darke> I think if you register it, it effects all of them.
[21:18:20] * Darke is actually almost certain of that. *grin*
[21:18:55] <Darke> I'm sure if you're feeling sufficiently deprave^Wevil^Wcreative you can test them out and find out. *grin*
[21:19:15] <Colourless> interesting. i wouldn't have though that sprintf would actually use a FILE
[21:21:34] * Darke would guess that part of the FILE is actually a memory buffer (char * or similar), which sprintf would 'overload' to use as it's temporary storage to do Evil Stuff(tm) with. But that's just a guess, he's not actually looked at the source to libc. *grin*
[21:22:04] * Colourless really doesn't care. he is never going to use such things
[21:24:47] * Darke adds proper datatyping to his usecode decompiler whilst he's idling, trying to avoid going to all the effort to fix the memory corruption bug. *ick*
[21:27:33] <Dominus> hm, Colourless, any idea, why a face would not show up in the game? e.g. face will not show but text...
[21:28:07] <Colourless> off my head, i really couldn't tell you
[21:28:16] <Dominus> okay
[21:29:02] <wjp> in what file did you store the face?
[21:29:23] <Dominus> faces.vga as ES didn't let me use any other file for faces
[21:30:14] <Colourless> probably could just be the exult isn't reading a patched faces.vga
[21:30:38] <Dominus> and I replaced Draxin(whatver)'s face with the custom one, renamed my /static/faces.vga (as Exult did default to that one)
[21:35:48] <Dominus> ah, found the problem: ES wouldn't let me choose that face but defaulted to face #357 (which does not exist)
[21:36:06] <Colourless> hmmm, user error :-)
[21:37:44] <x-bs> Whats this about snprintf using a FILE stream?
[21:37:47] <x-bs> sprintf
[21:38:16] <Colourless> do not worry yourself with such things
[21:38:27] * x-bs scrolls up.
[21:38:35] <Dominus> yeah, as I did it in one pass (modified faces.vga and changed the game) it didn't keep the face # (as it didn't exist yet - not saved)
[21:39:21] * Darke quickly covers x-bs' eyes. Don't look! You'll be forever tempted to use it in a program if you do!
[21:40:22] <Dominus> http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a9848357/exult/exult000.pcx
[21:40:34] <Colourless> a seemingly nice feature, that can just be oh so horribly abused
[21:45:11] <Dominus> now I only wonder why on importing the png it screwed up the palette as I used the palette from the avatar face
[21:45:21] * Darke is _so_ tempted to abuse it in an assignment. Just so he can watch the marker's brane melt trying to figure out what on earth that %W or whatever is.
[21:47:40] <Colourless> time for me to go
[21:47:52] <Darke> Night! or Day! *grin*
[21:47:58] <Dominus> bye
[21:48:05] <x-bs> bye
[21:48:12] * x-bs writes some obfuscated code.
[21:48:23] <Colourless> cya
[21:48:26] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("no comment")
[22:14:16] <x-bs> what is the color black called that is used in printing?
[22:16:58] <x-bs> starts with O?
[22:18:56] <x-bs> Please everyone, don't give me so many answers at once! Your confusing me.
[22:31:59] <x-bs> oh, it's Indigo
[22:32:04] <x-bs> thanks x-bs
[22:32:06] <x-bs> no problem
[22:38:03] <Dominus> Exult Studio/Gimp/PNGs give me headaches
[22:39:04] <Dominus> if I try to import pngs I get weird palette shiftings. If I first make a shp out of a png and then in ES export the shp to png, then reimport it everything is fine...
[22:40:34] <Darke> Maybe it's running out of colours in the pallete to allocate the colours in the png too, thus leaving them as 'is' or giving them random colours?
[22:40:55] <x-bs> if i export png from ES and open it in the Gimp it is on a layer shifted off of the image
[22:42:05] <x-bs> and now my mouse is blinking
[22:42:43] * x-bs hits the mouse.
[22:43:04] * x-bs is blinded by its flashing red light and becomes momentarily incapacitated.
[23:02:43] <Dominus> hm, Jeff didn't comit some of his patch files as binary to CVS...
[23:03:13] <wjp> I'll fix that
[23:03:27] <wjp> which ones?
[23:04:38] <wjp> hm, most files in the content dir, it seems?
[23:04:40] <Dominus> content/islefaq/u7ifix65, u7map, initgame.dat
[23:05:22] * Darke yays. He fixed the memory corruption bug that was plaguing him, by slowly rewriting a large mass of code, that needed to be rewritten in a different way anyway. It's pity he didn't find what was causing it though.
[23:05:42] <wjp> Dominus: ok, should be fixed now
[23:05:50] <Dominus> thx
[23:06:51] <Dominus> x-bs: what is different in that file as the one in faces.vga?
[23:07:13] <x-bs> is there still a character based on my name in the patch?
[23:07:39] <Dominus> I think so, haven't been able to check with the one Jeff has in CVS
[23:07:51] <x-bs> :)
[23:07:56] <wjp> yeah, you're still in the usecode, anyway
[23:07:58] <x-bs> that is my picture
[23:08:12] <x-bs> excellent!
[23:08:39] <Dominus> well, just telling me which face to use would have been easier then (as it is identical to the one in faces.vga)
[23:09:19] <x-bs> it is coincidental that i look so much like a character from ultima in real life
[23:09:39] <x-bs> strange no?
[23:09:41] <Dominus> he he
[23:10:08] * x-bs gives Darke a rutabaga.
[23:10:14] * Darke would guess the answer to that would be 'yes' is it coincidental.
[23:10:54] * Darke crunches and wonders where x-bs is getting all these weird vegetables from.
[23:13:01] * x-bs gives Darke a juicer.
[23:13:33] <x-bs> (that looks like the cremator and the reanimator btw)
[23:14:59] * Dominus just let Pyro-X explode again :-)
[23:15:40] <wjp> we should really put ourselves in tournament mode
[23:15:53] <wjp> the resulting invulnerability would be nice :-)
[23:16:12] * Darke snickers.
[23:18:52] <x-bs> colourless is already invincible
[23:19:08] * wjp is reading new usecode file... Jeff added quite a bit of conversation
[23:19:11] <-- kefka has left IRC ("[x]chat 1.8.8")
[23:19:53] * x-bs really should get a new CVS tree.
[23:23:05] <Darke> x-bs: Yeah. But aren't dragons meant to be almost invincible anyway? *grin*
[23:24:28] <Dominus> wjp: just I don't seem to be able to run most of the new conversations
[23:24:43] <wjp> you need to talk to yourself to initiate it
[23:25:08] <Dominus> yeah, but then nobody else seemed to have the options
[23:25:51] <wjp> did you get the "will you help me recover it?" question?
[23:25:56] <Dominus> yeah
[23:25:57] <x-bs> Darke: Not if you use sleeping potions. :o)
[23:26:03] <wjp> is flag 1005 set?
[23:26:14] <Dominus> one moment
[23:26:40] <Darke> x-bs: Yeah, but that's 'cheating', I really can't see someone voluntarially forcing a sleeping potion down a dragon's throat. *grin*
[23:26:43] <Dominus> aargh, GIMP is screwing me up
[23:28:15] <x-bs> Darke: Next time he comes in here, I'll do it I swear!
[23:28:22] <wjp> anyway, assuming that flag did get set correctly, you should ask Amy about "Job->Are you happy here?->Join"
[23:28:56] <x-bs> Amy has a real conversation now?
[23:29:03] <Dominus> ah, that coould be it
[23:29:17] <wjp> she can even join the party now :-)
[23:29:42] <wjp> once she's in the party, talk to DrCode again
[23:31:33] <Dominus> yeah, I've got it working now
[23:31:40] <Dominus> he he
[23:32:14] <wjp> I don't see any resolution to this plot-thread, though
[23:32:26] <x-bs> the syntax jsf posted to the ml looks confusing to me
[23:32:42] <Dominus> even though it is supposed to be easier now I have more trouble reading the usecode now (though that is due to Jeff cleaning up my script)
[23:38:53] * wjp has to go
[23:38:56] <wjp> bye
[23:39:01] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzz...")
[23:39:01] <x-bs> bye
[23:39:21] * x-bs kicks the entire Gnutella network.
[23:40:57] * x-bs gets his kick returned.
[23:43:12] * Darke upgrades autoconf/automake and wonders what's going to die horribly now.
[23:44:32] * x-bs notices gtk-Gnutella drop its connections and blames Darke.
[23:52:11] * Darke notices he can emerge gcc3.1... does he dare? Will he ever be able to compile exult/pentagram again? To find out, tune into the next episode of...
[23:53:39] * x-bs hopes he doesn't have to wait all summer for the next episode.
[23:56:14] <Darke> Not likely. *grin* I'm just in the middle of updating xchat at the moment. gcc is next.
[23:59:21] <Darke> *blinkblink* Except it needs to update the gnome-libs among other things first. Whilst it's not likely to take 'all summer', it might take all day. *grin*