#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 21 Nov 2003 (GMT)

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[00:16:11] <beg> hey kirben and darkzz
[00:16:22] <beg> sb-x long time no see
[00:16:56] <beg> i've been banned forever from pentagram irc thanx to colourless, hes the only one I had a fight with
[00:17:11] <beg> he thinks hes too cool, I got no prob with anyone else but oh well
[00:17:33] <beg> no development on pentagram at the moment i see anyways , fair enough considering time of year
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[11:08:13] <servus> ConvertU6MapsToU7.exe, anyone? *Grin!*
[11:10:04] <DarkeZzz> Noooooooooooooooooo!
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[11:11:55] <Colourless> hi
[11:12:06] <DarkeZzz> Hi!
[11:12:07] <servus> DarkeZzz: Why the outburst?:)
[11:12:32] * DarkeZzz quickly destroys all evidence of a u6->u7 converter, should the would spontaneously end at the completion of it's work.
[11:13:12] <Colourless> looking at spam that's been comming in recently with intentional mispelt words, and extraneous characters in words, i have to wonder, how long will it be till spam is written in l33t 5p34k
[11:13:56] * servus spams DarkeZzz with u6-u7 map converter messages until he finds out what's so evil about it >:)
[11:14:14] <Colourless> does someone want to tell cashman that I wasn't actually the one who banned him :-)
[11:14:58] <Colourless> probably should eventually unban him anyway
[11:14:59] <servus> Just create a middlechunk for each u6 tile and presto! u6->u7!
[11:15:34] <servus> Rather, assign a premade middlechunk to each u6 tile... Hmmm >:)
[11:15:36] <DarkeZzz> Colourless: There was actually an interesting article about that in relation to baysian filtering. Basicly it resolved down to the point where if everyone used it, spam would have to be something like "Go to this web address: <url>" to get around it, since l33t speak is obviously non-normal, and thus easy to trigger on. *grin*
[11:16:33] <servus> Too late, DarkeZzz -- I'll do it myself! The world cannot stop me! Mwuahaha!
[11:16:39] <DarkeZzz> Colourless: I think it was wjp because cashman kept insulting you on channel. /ignore user features are more useful to avoid people. *grin*
[11:19:00] * DarkeZzz declares servus a figment of his imagination, thus denying the existance of anything converting u6 to u7, so there. *grin*
[11:19:11] <Colourless> i know why he was banned, and if wjp didn't do it, I probably would have done it myself.
[11:19:11] <servus> I'll post a screenshot when I do it.
[11:19:19] <servus> I'll glue your eyeballs open and make you watch.
[11:19:35] <Colourless> basically iirc, I unbanned him, then he comes into the channel and starts going off about me
[11:20:07] <Colourless> and the wjp banned him, which has stayed since then
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[11:21:11] <DarkeZzz> Yup.
[11:21:39] <Colourless> the reason I originally banned him was purely due to his usage of language.
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[11:22:31] <Colourless> excessive swearing isn't really appropriate for our channels
[11:28:00] <DarkeZzz> Nope.
[11:29:01] * DarkeZzz thinks excessive quanitities of innuendo is appropriate though. *innocentblink*
[11:29:21] * servus pets his u6->u7 lovingly.
[11:30:10] * DarkeZzz hires thugs to ensure u6->u7 sleeps with the fishes.
[11:31:06] * DarkeZzz claifies his thug's instructions to make sure they include concrete boots and a large body of water for u6->u7, not a mermaid concubine.
[11:31:08] <Colourless> oh yes. implying, but not actually saying is entirely appropriate
[11:31:10] * servus promises a journalist a kickback to get it on the cover of magazines... Tiger Beat!
[11:31:48] * servus will get a syndicated picture of Leif Garrett holding u6->u7 lovingly
[11:32:02] <Colourless> especially things like the Flex Usecode Kernel Object File Format. Something that i choose not to turn into an acronym :-)
[11:32:37] * servus joins the Very Aggressive Government Industry Nationalists Assocation.
[11:32:39] <DarkeZzz> I still think that's eminently despicable. It's going to make documenting it and describing it a pain. *grin*
[11:32:46] <servus> God bless the Daily Show
[11:32:58] <servus> DarkeZzz: I don't think you understand...
[11:33:17] <servus> DarkeZzz: It has nothing to do with Exult. It'll simply modify the U7 mapfile directly and that's that.
[11:33:45] <servus> When I get it working, I'll send you the mapfile or the converting tool -- I'm not going to start on it soon though, I need sleep!
[11:33:47] <DarkeZzz> servus: Sure. I just have a dislike of u6, that's all. *grin*
[11:34:17] <Colourless> you know, writing the converter wouldn't be the difficult part
[11:34:22] <servus> DarkeZzz: OK, but but but... it'll be fun to fly around the map... work with me here:)
[11:34:35] <Colourless> matching up the art, that would be a problem
[11:34:43] <servus> Colourless: I do *not* want to even entertain the notion of making the game remotely playable in U7 or Exult. I just want to have some fun :)
[11:34:44] <Colourless> and making roofs among other things
[11:35:13] <servus> All it is is a single page of C and a bunch of conversion tables.
[11:37:24] <servus> I should restart my U7-3D project sometime...
[11:51:05] * DarkeZzz studies CISCO stuff as Tears for Fear's 'Mad World' starts to play on his mp3 player, it seems strangely appropriate.
[11:51:53] <servus> I like Garey Jules' version better.
[11:52:28] <servus> Do any of you know how an SDL 16-bit surface works, colour-wise?
[11:52:38] <DarkeZzz> I'm currently attempting to acquire it. Have a few other versions, but I still seem to prefer the original.
[11:53:00] * DarkeZzz hides!
[11:53:31] * servus dangles a carrot on a fishing pole
[11:53:42] * DarkeZzz oooooohs! and hophophops after the carrot!
[11:55:40] * servus hides the carrot in the u6 warren which may only be reached from the u7 rabbit warren
[11:57:44] * servus laughs evilly
[12:01:01] * DarkeZzz eeeps and fleeees! Instinctively knowing evil when he sees it!
[12:01:39] <servus> This is just like the beginning of Watership Down...:)
[12:07:08] <servus> OK OK you can have the carrot.
[12:11:31] * DarkeZzz can't remember much of Watership Down, it's been aaaages since he's read it.
[12:12:24] <servus> Humans come, drive hrudus, destroy warren, Fiver (You!) flees.
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[15:55:14] <wjp> hi
[15:55:26] <Colourless> hi
[15:57:08] <sbx> hello
[17:11:52] * wjp sighs
[17:12:04] <wjp> too many video cards to choose from :-)
[17:13:16] <Colourless> yeah, one of life's tough decisions
[17:13:43] <wjp> the issue just got a bit more "urgent" with the release of Broken Sword 3 :-)
[17:14:05] <Colourless> :-)
[17:14:08] <wjp> ..., which needs a Geforce 2 with 64Mb or better
[17:14:53] <Colourless> :-)
[17:15:27] <wjp> I'm currently reading up a bit on tomshardware.com and anandtech.com
[17:15:34] <wjp> of course, the result is that I'm starting to get totally confused :-)
[17:16:50] <Colourless> not surprising.
[17:18:07] <wjp> I'm pretty much limited to nvidia because of linux support, from what I understand
[17:18:33] <wjp> so that leaves an FX5200, FX5600 or FX5900
[17:18:42] <wjp> and I'm guessing that's in order of increasing performance :-)
[17:18:58] <Colourless> you would guess correctly :-)
[17:19:27] <wjp> I'm not shopping for an high-end card, so the FX5900 is pretty much out of the question
[17:19:39] <Colourless> yes it would be :-)
[17:19:45] <wjp> s/an/a/
[17:20:46] <Colourless> typically, a lowend 5600 is probably going to be better than a high end 5200
[17:21:31] <wjp> ugh, and it seems there's a ultra/non-ultra distinction too
[17:21:39] <wjp> gah... s/a/an/
[17:21:54] <wjp> I wonder what's wrong with my articles tonight :-)
[17:26:30] <wjp> hm, I wonder how much I want to spend
[17:27:02] <wjp> the 5600's appear to be Eur150-170
[17:27:10] <wjp> 5200's Eur80-100
[17:29:06] <wjp> hm, what's DVI and do I want 2 of those? :-)
[17:29:46] <Colourless> well, lets see. Do you have a flat panel display. If no, you do not want 2 :-)
[17:30:05] <wjp> and if I was considering getting one? :-)
[17:30:10] <Colourless> DVI is digital video out for flat panel displays :-)
[17:30:23] <Colourless> well, you might want 1 :-)
[17:30:36] <wjp> Asus V9560 TD/256 MB/FX5600/ 2 x VGA/ DVI/TV at Eur168
[17:30:51] <wjp> so that has 2 'normal' video outs, one DVI out and one TV out? :-)
[17:31:15] <Colourless> might not
[17:31:45] <Colourless> might be 1 x VGA, 1 x DVI (+adapter for VGA), and TV out
[17:32:51] <wjp> ah, indeed
[17:32:56] <wjp> http://usa.asus.com/prog/spec.asp?m=V9560/TD&langs=09 agrees with you :-)
[17:33:21] <Colourless> you see, my graphics card has that same setup :-)
[17:33:26] <wjp> what would you say about that one, btw?
[17:33:35] <wjp> I was wondering how they'd fit all of that one one card :-)
[17:33:47] <Colourless> .me is waiting for page to loa
[17:33:51] <Colourless> d
[17:35:06] <wjp> changing the 'usa.asus.com' to 'au.asus.com' might make it faster
[17:35:31] <Colourless> would be reasonably ok
[17:35:46] <Colourless> :-)
[17:35:59] <wjp> I don't want to know how much slower it is than high-end cards I think :-)
[17:37:38] <wjp> looking at some benchmarks it's "reasonably ok", yes :-)
[17:38:18] <wjp> hm, dinner's ready
[17:38:25] <wjp> thanks for the feedback again :-)
[17:38:25] <wjp> bbl
[17:38:35] <Colourless> np. k :-)
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[18:11:54] * wjp hmmms
[18:12:04] <wjp> it seems my parents would be willing to "sponsor" a new video card :-)
[18:12:08] <Colourless> your issue now? :-)
[18:12:44] <wjp> I wouldn't call that an 'issue' :-)
[18:13:06] <Colourless> :-)
[18:13:35] <flv> how old are you both ?
[18:13:49] <wjp> I'm 23
[18:14:01] <Colourless> same here
[18:14:04] <flv> same here
[18:14:08] <flv> lol
[18:14:09] <wjp> :-)
[18:14:39] <wjp> maybe I should just get that asus v9560/td card just to get it over with :-)
[18:18:02] <wjp> hm, the store is actually still open... I could go buy it now
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[19:10:10] <wjp> now... time to install this thing :-)
[19:10:14] <wjp> I hope I'll be back soon :-)
[19:10:25] <Colourless> :-)
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[19:10:33] <Colourless> make sure you've downloaded the latest drivers :-)
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[19:18:35] <wjp> well, that went without a hitch, strangely :-)
[19:18:40] <wjp> yikes, glxinfo output is 'slightly' longer than before :-)
[19:18:54] <Colourless> :-)
[19:19:10] <Colourless> you'll have many many gl extensions
[19:19:35] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/glxinfo
[19:22:12] <Colourless> :-)
[19:22:25] <Colourless> just a few :-)
[19:23:07] <wjp> I'm kind of happy this new card supports 85Hz in 1600x1200 too :-)
[19:23:19] <wjp> or rather, that the drivers allow it
[19:23:27] <Colourless> most modern cards do it
[19:23:33] <wjp> my old card did support it, but the drivers for some mysterious reason didn't allow it at some point
[19:23:55] <wjp> ramdac of 400Mhz I see :-)
[19:24:26] <wjp> (I'm assuming that's what determines which refresh rates you can get?)
[19:24:40] <Colourless> yes it is
[19:24:41] <wjp> and 1600x1200x85Hz is easily less than 400Mhz
[19:25:00] <wjp> now if only I had something to test it with :-)
[19:26:07] <Colourless> it's slightly more complex than just that
[19:26:24] <wjp> well, but a factor 2.5 should be enough, right?
[19:26:39] <Colourless> yes
[19:27:26] * wjp looks at the NWN box on his desk :-)
[19:27:36] * wjp also looks at the BS3 box lying on top of that ;-)
[19:27:51] <Colourless> when doing a refresh, there are effectively more than 1600 wide and 1200 wide due to retrace times. At the end of each line there is a certain amount of time for the gun to return to the start of the next line
[19:28:00] <wjp> yeah, I know
[19:28:08] <Colourless> and after the last line you need to retrace to the top of the screen
[19:28:29] <Colourless> so your ramdac needs to handle those too
[19:28:57] <wjp> how annoying... it seems I need a windows install of NWN to get the data files from for the linux client
[19:29:14] <Colourless> then, as far as I know, you really would want your ramdac to be running at least 2x faster than you actually require, otherwise things will just become blurry
[19:29:20] <Colourless> wjp: actually, you may not
[19:29:41] <wjp> glxgears is getting 2500fps; that's kind of cute :-)
[19:29:57] <Colourless> check the bioware website
[19:29:58] <wjp> there's also an option to download 1.2Gb of datafiles
[19:30:07] <Colourless> yes :-)
[19:30:22] <wjp> somehow I'm not overly thrilled at the prospect of having to download that much :-)
[19:30:50] <Colourless> if you want you could just install it to any old windows dir and just move the directory after
[19:30:58] <Colourless> (in linux)
[19:31:00] <wjp> yeah
[19:31:10] <wjp> I wonder if wine can handle the installer
[19:32:13] <Colourless> uses install shield modern versions that use windows installer
[19:32:18] <wjp> http://www.icculus.org/~ravage/nwn/ <-- hmm :-)
[19:32:19] <Colourless> (i think)
[19:33:00] <wjp> that one uses wine, apparently
[19:33:18] <Colourless> well, i see you did some work :-)
[19:33:27] <wjp> it's called 'google' :-)
[19:33:40] <wjp> ("wine neverwinter installer" :-) )
[19:34:21] <Colourless> i've actually got a program that can unpack the install shield archives
[19:34:44] <Colourless> so that installer might incorperate it somehow
[19:37:12] <Colourless> or not, hard to say
[19:37:44] <wjp> it does say it needs wine, so I'm guessing it just runs the installer itself
[19:39:07] <Colourless> eyeah it might
[19:40:47] <Colourless> if it lets you choose, you should install all the texture packs, because you'll have to reinstall the entire game to add the rest.
[19:41:42] <Colourless> once you've got it installed, you can probably enable all graphics options
[19:43:39] <Colourless> 4x antialiasing though might be a little slow. hard to say. best quality shadows with lots of light sources might also be slow, but again it would be hard for me to say.
[19:44:23] <wjp> I'll experiment a bit I guess
[19:44:35] <Colourless> yeah
[19:44:53] <Colourless> some people don't notice the difference with fsaa, but i think they are strange :-)
[19:44:58] <Colourless> IMO, it makes a huge difference
[19:46:14] <Colourless> assuming that nwn for linux supports fsaa :-)
[19:46:24] <wjp> we'll see :-)
[19:46:31] <wjp> 15Mb left to download
[19:51:29] <wjp> well, it seems to be working
[19:51:36] <wjp> didn't get any choices other than target directory
[19:51:55] <wjp> install size is 1.8Gb
[19:52:39] <wjp> the texturepacks dir is 306Mb (so far...)
[19:53:03] <Colourless> mine is 371
[19:53:21] <Colourless> that includes SoU textures too
[19:53:45] <wjp> ah, I don't have those (yet) :-)
[19:54:06] <Colourless> i've barely played SoU :-)
[19:54:41] <wjp> ah, it uses SDL
[19:54:47] <Colourless> i actually got it to play some fan modules
[19:57:10] <wjp> hmm.. it's asking for the "Play Disc CDROM", while my CDs are only labelled one to three :-)
[19:57:21] <Colourless> you want 3
[19:57:22] <wjp> ah well, it just asked for 1 and 2, so I'm guessing this is 3 :-)
[19:59:41] <Colourless> since i know you just want to know, i have 500 mb of save games :-)
[20:00:03] <wjp> my poor harddisk :-)
[20:00:06] <Colourless> of course, that wouldn't be entirely normal
[20:00:38] <Colourless> you see, savegame size is determined by the module size
[20:00:38] <wjp> now, let's see about this patch
[20:00:51] <Colourless> and really really huge modules have really really huge savegames
[20:00:56] <wjp> :-)
[20:01:05] <wjp> so, I'm guessing you have a few really really huge modules? :-)
[20:01:18] <Colourless> i've got 4 save games for a module where they are 60 mb each :-)
[20:01:38] <wjp> gah, patch is another 45Mb
[20:02:13] <Colourless> 45 mb ?
[20:02:23] <wjp> "1.29 to 1.32 english: 45.7Mb"
[20:02:50] <Colourless> linux patches must be bigger than windows
[20:03:24] <wjp> hm, yes, the same windows patch is 14.2Mb
[20:03:38] <wjp> I guess this is a good time for some tea :-)
[20:03:49] <Colourless> if you've got SoU, install it before downloading patches, because oddly enough, SoU manages to uninstall the patches :-)
[20:04:05] <Colourless> and SoU has different patches to NWN :-)
[20:04:22] <Colourless> so you theb need to download the SoU patch too :-)
[20:05:14] <Colourless> my guess why the linux patches are bigger is because they don't use rtpatch
[20:07:49] <wjp> yeah.. the install instructions are "unpack archive" :-)
[20:08:20] <wjp> don't have SoU
[20:08:29] <wjp> or the other expansion
[20:08:56] <Colourless> the other expansion went gold like of thursday, so i wouldn't think you would have it yet :-)
[20:09:13] * wjp coughs
[20:09:31] <Colourless> AS I SAID: i wouldn't think you would have it yet :-)
[20:09:43] <Colourless> i never said it would be impossible :-)
[20:10:09] <wjp> ok... that was the patch
[20:10:14] <wjp> now, let's see if this thing runs :-)
[20:10:50] <Colourless> i'm sure where ever you managed to get a version of NwN with a mislabeled Play disk, might be able to get you the 2nd expansion early *cough*
[20:12:40] <wjp> I think you have the wrong idea :-)
[20:13:10] <Colourless> i do?
[20:13:51] <wjp> now, why does this thing insist on using a 60Hz mode...
[20:14:05] <Colourless> edit nwn.ini
[20:14:11] <Colourless> change the refresh setting
[20:14:46] <wjp> ah, yes, much better :-)
[20:16:00] <Colourless> you should also have been able to set the refresh rate in the video settings of the game
[20:23:24] <wjp> kind of annoying it doesn't seem to be possible to 'alt-tab' the game away
[20:24:01] <Colourless> for ages whenever i would alt-tab away here, the game would just crash :-)
[20:26:08] <Colourless> of course, it works now :-)
[20:28:55] <wjp> heh, there's a 'fullscreen' setting in nwn.ini, but it doesn't seem to do anything
[20:29:08] <wjp> I wonder if I could hack SDL to force windowed :-)
[20:29:18] <Colourless> wait :-)
[20:29:24] <Colourless> add
[20:29:31] <Colourless> AllowWindowedMode=1
[20:29:35] <Colourless> to the same section in the ini file :-)
[20:29:52] <wjp> oooh :-)
[20:29:53] <wjp> thanks :-)
[20:29:54] <Colourless> then try doing Fullscreen=0
[20:30:02] <wjp> already working :-)
[20:30:16] <Colourless> does Alt-Enter also work?
[20:30:25] <wjp> not in the menu
[20:30:36] <wjp> nor in the game
[20:32:29] <wjp> powerful guy, that Bim. He can actually set your camera mode ;-)
[20:32:53] <Colourless> in case you didn't notice/know there is no dice rolls in character creation
[20:32:59] <Colourless> unlike real dnd
[20:33:06] <wjp> yeah
[20:33:18] <wjp> I tried a few times, but they looked suspiciously the same each time :-)
[20:33:39] <Colourless> it was to make things fairer for internet play
[20:35:02] * wjp nods
[20:36:30] <Colourless> also, a few of the feats and spells are a little different to normal dnd too
[20:37:42] <Colourless> a good example would be the find traps spells, which will actually disable the traps it finds
[20:38:46] <Colourless> IMO the spell is unbalanced like it is since it is an area spell, so it will disable multiple traps each casting
[20:39:38] <Colourless> then IMO it makes Bards, Wizzards and Sourcers far more effective as trap disablers than Rogues
[20:40:04] <Colourless> s/Sourcers/Sourcerers/
[20:40:44] <Colourless> s/ou/o/
[20:40:48] <Colourless> :-)
[20:40:56] <Colourless> i think i'm going to leave and stop typing any more mistakes
[20:41:00] <Colourless> cya
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