#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 22 Dec 2001 (GMT)

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[00:19:51] <Fingolfin> hm, I added an -all-static? I am not sure I did commit that on purpose...
[00:20:18] <Fingolfin> I think I did some testing with it, hoping it would make libtool static link some libs (esp. SDL), but it didn't work
[00:20:29] <Fingolfin> --static-libs vs. --libs , hmm
[00:20:45] <Fingolfin> equal fo rme
[00:21:02] <wjp> big difference here. --static-libs adds a lot of X libs
[00:23:27] <Fingolfin> 'k
[00:23:42] <wjp> ...Gameplay options done... Audio options up next
[00:57:29] <wjp> *phew*... Audio options done too
[01:23:17] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("good night")
[01:51:05] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzz....")
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[09:32:36] <Wumpus> hehe jsf's been busy again :)
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[10:35:21] * Darke greetingsbows.
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[11:40:21] <sbx> hi
[11:45:04] --> Darkatom has joined #exult
[11:45:06] <Darkatom> hi
[11:45:48] <Wumpus> you really shouldn't be ircing as root if you can help it ;-p
[11:45:52] <Wumpus> and hi :-)
[11:46:11] <Wumpus> and hi darke, sbx too, very belatedly :) (been busy)
[11:46:33] * sbx thinks The Wumpus is on later than usual ?
[11:46:37] <Darkatom> please, tell me why
[11:46:58] <Darkatom> because at the moment I haven't had any problem
[11:46:59] <Wumpus> sbx- nah, usually until about midnight, another hour yet
[11:47:19] <sbx> Wumpus: ok it mustve just been a few days that you had been leaving early
[11:47:21] <Wumpus> darkatom- most irc clients are less secure than they might be, and if someone knows how to exploit it, then they can do whatever :P
[11:47:34] <sbx> Hmm.. or I am here earlier than usual.
[11:47:46] <Wumpus> beyond that, its generally considerd wise to only use root wehn you need it, simply for the "random fuck up factor" :P
[11:47:56] <sbx> Darkatom: or the RFUF
[11:48:19] <sbx> hehe
[11:48:24] <Wumpus> (sorry, language)
[11:48:43] <Darkatom> ok
[11:48:45] <Darkatom> tahnks
[11:49:00] <sbx> RFUF: rm -rf /
[11:49:02] <Darkatom> have u compiled exult?
[11:49:14] <Wumpus> yep :)
[11:49:37] <sbx> (in case you didnt understand, that means dont do that)
[11:49:40] * Wumpus pats his debs and script to generate them
[11:49:58] <sbx> i should make a script
[11:50:14] <Darkatom> can u tell me why the exult excutable is bigger than the executable in the .rpm package?
[11:50:26] <sbx> unstripped
[11:50:30] <Wumpus> sbx- lol, if someone doesn't understand that, then i'd be worried about letting them near a linux box, hehe; -p
[11:50:48] <Wumpus> darkatom- hmm, how much bigger?
[11:51:00] <sbx> Wumpus: I was worried about the language barrier possibly. :-)
[11:51:07] <Wumpus> like, "lots" or "only a little bit"... if you include debug info its something like 10 times as big
[11:51:22] <Wumpus> if you statically link, it'll also be absurdly big most likely
[11:51:51] <Wumpus> oh ,yeah, it could be unstripped
[11:51:55] * Wumpus misses the obvious :P
[11:53:55] <sbx> Darkatom: do you have AIX?
[11:54:00] <Darkatom> hehe
[11:54:16] <Darkatom> I have an AIX shell account
[11:54:48] <Darkatom> I must leave, I'll return here later
[11:54:51] <sbx> ok
[11:55:33] <Darkatom> and then you'll tell me if you're thinking to make a port of exult to QNX, or AIX
[11:55:35] <Darkatom> bye
[11:55:42] <-- Darkatom has left IRC ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1")
[11:55:52] <Wumpus> hehe not us :)
[11:56:01] <Wumpus> what are AIX and QNX? just flavours of unix, right?
[11:56:39] <sbx> The microGUI theme for Sawfish says its from QNX.
[11:56:50] * sbx shrugs.
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[11:57:22] <Colourless> greeting
[11:57:22] <Colourless> s
[11:57:23] <sbx> hi Colourless
[11:57:40] * Colourless is doing well to night, 1 word typed, 1 typo
[11:58:00] <Colourless> make that 2 typos :)
[11:58:07] <Wumpus> this is unusual? :)
[11:58:17] <Wumpus> and good evening :)
[11:58:18] <Colourless> no, of course not
[11:58:58] <sbx> in Galaga you can get a 200% kill rate by getting 2 bee's at the start with one shot and not shooting anything else
[11:59:08] <sbx> ... of course that is unrelated to anything so please ignore me :P
[11:59:26] <Wumpus> its these little snippets of information which make this channel great :)
[12:00:12] <Wumpus> hmm
[12:00:28] * Darke finally unidles and notices other creatures in the channel. <grin>
[12:00:41] <sbx> Wumpus: QNX is a clear competitor to Linux in the embedded systems market.
[12:00:48] <Colourless> your are a disgrace for you ops status!
[12:01:04] * Colourless tries again
[12:01:17] <Colourless> you are a disgrace to your ops status!
[12:01:28] <Wumpus> sbx- so its another unix flavour? :P
[12:01:49] <sbx> Colourless: He should be to kicked from it.
[12:02:12] <Colourless> wumpus: i think i'm doing much worse than normal
[12:02:15] --- Colourless takes channel operator status from Darke
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[12:02:25] <sbx> Wumpus: Yes, a microkernal variety.
[12:02:35] <sbx> s/kernal/kernel
[12:02:45] * Darke reads the scrollback, and watches Colourless typo again, and again, and again... <grin>
[12:02:53] <Wumpus> sbx- ah, thanks :)
[12:03:05] <Wumpus> colourless- hehe, you jinxed (sp?) yourself :P
[12:04:04] * Darke earperks, "In what way? <grin> I regularly complain about somebun's typo 'skills' on another channel and it doesn't hurt me."
[12:06:03] * Colourless ponders something
[12:06:04] <-- Darke was kicked from #Exult by Colourless (Colourless)
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[12:06:24] * Darke snickers.
[12:08:05] * Darke points out that said rabbit also reads these logs, on occasion, so will likely be less then... impressed with me mentioning it. <evilgiggle>
[12:08:54] <sbx> Wumpus: QNX 4 is a POSIX compatible RTOS, ideal for embedded systems. It is a very respected commercial offering. The next-generation QNX is Neutrino, which leans more towards the Linux model. Photon is the GUI and it is compatible with X applications. The core product and associated tools which are not under royalty status are being open-sourced for non-commercial use.
[12:09:12] <sbx> Wumpus: (from the sbx too-much-information dept.)
[12:09:45] <Wumpus> indeed :)
[12:09:46] <Darke> sbx: Nah. TMI would be if you half a dozen detailed weblinks on him. <grin>
[12:09:55] <Wumpus> also knowna as the "find somewhere to copy and paste from" department? ;-p
[12:10:21] <sbx> I took what would be weblinks and compiled bits of information in a handy paragraph summary :-)
[12:11:03] * Darke thinks Colourless _should_ have said something by now... maybe he's asleep, or just didn't notice. <grin>
[12:11:46] * Colourless is conserving bandwith
[12:11:51] <sbx> Thanks!
[12:12:03] <Wumpus> oh joy, source code in a single lump
[12:12:07] <Wumpus> -rw-r--r-- 1 michaelz michaelz 223081 Dec 11 13:47 mappy.c
[12:12:16] <Wumpus> (thats the entire `project')
[12:12:19] <sbx> mappy?
[12:12:26] <Colourless> well, how many functions is it :-)
[12:12:26] <Darke> Oooo... fun.
[12:12:40] <Wumpus> oh some map editting/creating thing
[12:12:50] <sbx> mappy wappy wumpus frumpus!
[12:12:55] <Wumpus> hehe
[12:12:59] <Wumpus> oh dear
[12:12:59] <Darke> Two of course! A void main(...) and a void DoStuff().
[12:13:13] <Wumpus> have i told the story about monolithic code for a computing assignment here?
[12:13:24] <Darke> Not AFAIK.
[12:13:26] <sbx> Darke: only adding the DoStuff when absolutely "necessary"
[12:13:43] <Wumpus> hehe he got bored of doing prototypes after the 4th :P
[12:13:48] <Wumpus> looks like a number of functions though
[12:13:53] <Wumpus> <story mode>
[12:14:08] <Darke> sbx: And the DoStuff() will be almost completely filled with 'goto's and 'label's.
[12:14:28] <Wumpus> I've probably mentioned that i tutored at uni for a while; an unfrotunate consequence is that i ahve to mark student's assignemnts and stuff
[12:14:32] <sbx> hehe
[12:14:34] <Colourless> all variable are global too. no locals :-)
[12:15:13] <Darke> Colourless: And it'll be built around a state machine that involves at least a dozen of those global variables...
[12:15:20] <Wumpus> once, there was an assignment for displaying and "playing" a battleships game; the display code itself was provided, and no AI was required; all they had to do was understand certain "command" and update an array of characters represeneting the borad
[12:15:25] <Wumpus> board even
[12:15:39] <Colourless> so DoStuff doesn't have any paramters
[12:15:40] <Wumpus> someone managed to spend 800k of code doing this
[12:15:44] <Darke> Oh, yes, and DoStuff() will be recursive.
[12:15:46] <sbx> are we still talking about Wumpus' code? :-)
[12:15:48] <Wumpus> 20000 lines, 5000 in one method
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[12:15:53] <Darke> Wumpus: <boggle>
[12:15:57] <Darkatom> hi again
[12:16:00] <Wumpus> darke- no reason that main can't be recurisve
[12:16:09] <sbx> ouch
[12:16:21] <Darkatom> what?
[12:16:27] <Wumpus> and no, he didn't get full makrs :-)
[12:16:29] <Darke> Wumpus: No, but it would make _sense_ if main() was recursive.
[12:16:37] <Colourless> i think the code should also be self generating as well
[12:16:46] <Wumpus> (wouldn't you love bug-hunting that? :P)
[12:16:49] <Colourless> hi
[12:16:51] <Darke> Colourless: Generated from a FORTRAN to C translator.
[12:17:14] <Darke> Colourless: Or COBOL, whichever you prefer.
[12:17:30] <sbx> the program would be able to avoid all attempts at debugging
[12:18:16] <Colourless> no, not at all. i'm talking about the code grabs parts of DoStuff and puts it into a buffer and then runs the buffer as if it were a function (i.e. self generating code)
[12:18:18] <Wumpus> yaaay Fetched 34.3MB in 2h54m39s (3277B/s)
[12:18:33] <Darke> And it wouldn't be designed to be reentrant, it just lucked out that it was on the original architecture.
[12:18:43] <Darke> Wumpus: Impressivly slow. <grin>
[12:19:01] <Wumpus> darke- bah, its a 33.6 modem :)
[12:19:13] <sbx> it would take me 5 hours
[12:19:25] <Darkatom> exult compiled executable size (.tar.gz) --> 14789552 | exult .rpm executable size --> 1599304
[12:19:28] <Darke> Colourless: Self modifying code. <grin> Impossible to almost debug, impossible to decompile. Fun!
[12:19:29] <Darkatom> why?
[12:19:48] <sbx> Darkatom: i already told you
[12:19:56] <Darke> Darkatom: `strip exult` will make it a bit smaller.
[12:19:56] <sbx> Darkatom: wumpus told you too
[12:20:13] <Wumpus> darkatom- woah, umm :| you probably want to strip it, but i don't think that should make that much difference... the size sounds vaguely like you might have compiled with debug info?
[12:20:29] <Darkatom> was it "stripped" or something like that?
[12:20:42] <Wumpus> (try stripping, though... the results can be quite variable, as i've discovered....)
[12:20:48] <Darke> The one in the .rpm would have been stripped.
[12:21:12] * sbx goes nuts and rips off all his clothing.
[12:21:13] <Darkatom> what's "strpped"?
[12:21:27] <Wumpus> darkatom- gets rid of various non-essential information in the binary
[12:21:40] <Wumpus> just do "strip exult" :) (assuming its in the current directory)
[12:21:42] <Colourless> being line numbers, source file name and stuff
[12:22:27] <Darke> Colourless: Like all the stuff they apparently forgot to remove from the u8 executable? <grin>
[12:22:54] <Colourless> yeah, exactly :-)
[12:22:58] <Darkatom> how do u express here that someone has understand something?
[12:23:15] <sbx> "i understand"
[12:23:28] <Wumpus> darke- ?
[12:23:48] <Darkatom> ok, I understood what u told me
[12:24:28] <Darke> Wumpus: They apparently forgot to strip the u8 executable before they shipped, so all the debugging information was left in it. Specifically file names and such.
[12:24:37] * sbx quietly puts his clothes back on and sits down since know one cared in the first place.
[12:24:57] <Wumpus> darke- hehe hmm :-)
[12:25:08] <Wumpus> sbx- *shudder*
[12:25:23] <Wumpus> sbx- my peril-sensitive sunglasses must have protected me from noticing :P
[12:25:31] <Colourless> and class names and methods
[12:26:00] * Darke wasn't interested in the first place, he thinks humans are ugly with or without clothes. <grin>
[12:26:55] <sbx> rabbits are usually always naked, except for fur
[12:26:58] <Darke> Colourless: That could be rather useful. Perhaps if we could locate a copy of the debugger/compiler they created it with, it would make reverse engineering stuff so much easier.
[12:28:21] * Darke wears a kilt, just for politeness' sake.
[12:28:44] * sbx gives Darke a carrot.
[12:29:08] * Darke bows in thanks and nibbles on the carrot.
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[12:34:57] <Wumpus> ahha, here it is
[12:35:34] <Wumpus> the other classic example of "find demonstrations of programming ability"
[12:35:59] <Wumpus> they were given a small stub and asked to write a program to solve a 2D maze, in C this time (entirely different class)
[12:36:32] <Wumpus> his entire contribution was: (in main:)
[12:36:32] <Wumpus> if(int maze_transverse (maze, &xpos, &ypos, &cpos ) == Success) {
[12:36:41] <Wumpus> ... <provided code>
[12:36:42] <Wumpus> and:
[12:37:01] <Wumpus> int maze_transverse (Maze m, int x, int y, int c) {
[12:37:08] <Wumpus> int m[x][y] = c;
[12:37:09] <Wumpus> if( c != EOF) {
[12:37:09] <Wumpus> [y] = [y + 1];
[12:37:09] <Wumpus> }
[12:37:20] <Wumpus> ... you get the picture :) (there's about as much again...)
[12:37:54] * Darke blinks, umm... he doesn't think he wasts to see the rest of the code.
[12:38:21] <Wumpus> well, its another if as above, except x instead of y, and then: return m[x][y] =c ;
[12:38:36] <Wumpus> interetsingly, this was not the first assignemnt, it was the third ;-p
[12:39:30] * Darke wonders if this creature got worse as the assignments incremented. <boggle>
[12:40:14] <Wumpus> hehe, i didn't look at his first two assignments paticularly, they were Kai's problem... :P he didn't do assignment 4
[12:40:45] <Darke> Thankfully on your part, I'm guessing. <grin>
[12:41:37] <sbx> Does that compile?
[12:41:39] <Wumpus> I also had someone (same subject this time) copy some source code from a uc berkely site *verbatim*, except for a single changed comment at the top... and then proceeded to try and convince us that he'd written it himself. To make this more fun... the code was only very vaguely related to the assignemnt, and was written in Ye Olde K&R C, which even *I* hadn't seen in a good 10 years or so at that point...
[12:41:43] <Wumpus> sbx- hehe hell no
[12:42:09] <sbx> Shouldn't they have to try to compile it before even thinking about turning it in? :-)
[12:42:17] <Wumpus> that guy (last case) left with a 0FL. apparently he's still disputing it.
[12:42:30] <Wumpus> sbx- they *should*, that doesn't mean they all do
[12:42:32] <Wumpus> :P
[12:42:44] <Wumpus> we can set it up so it doesn't accept non-compiling solutions, but we generally don't
[12:42:47] <Darke> Wumpus: <giggle> Oh boy, I can read K&R and re-write it in ANSI, but I've never written in it before. That's just... dumb.
[12:43:03] <Wumpus> darke- :P
[12:43:08] <sbx> hehe
[12:44:09] <sbx> I got slackware linux 8 yesterday so I'm gonna go backup stuff and install it.
[12:44:12] * Darke attempts to look innocent or something.
[12:44:16] * sbx waves.
[12:44:18] <Wumpus> i've also got some amusing haskell code, but i imagine noone here would be able to read it :|
[12:44:23] <sbx> haskell?
[12:44:28] <Darke> sbx: Bye! Luck! <grin>
[12:44:35] <Wumpus> sbx- thats pretty much the response i expected :P
[12:44:41] * Darke sighs and pawwaves.
[12:44:44] <Wumpus> www.haskell.org if you're curious. Nice language, actually.
[12:44:50] * sbx doesn't have paws.
[12:44:54] <-- sbx has left IRC ("Push push push, add jmp mul pop, push call sub mod, in smth say...")
[12:45:12] * Wumpus waves to sbx too, a little late
[12:45:37] <Darke> Wumpus: For... odd values of 'nice' anyway. <grin> It's another one of those languages I can read and interpret, but wouldn't even consider writing 'voluntarily' in.
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[12:46:11] <Wumpus> darke- *Shrug* its brilliant for some purposes, and in some ways the whole functional paradigm is attractive
[12:46:14] <wjp> hi
[12:46:20] <Darke> Hi wjp.
[12:46:23] <Wumpus> (although 'paradigm' is an evil word :P)
[12:46:28] <Wumpus> `lo wjp
[12:47:10] <Wumpus> ahha, thats why gimp-plugin wasn't compiling *fetches the pacakge which has gimptool in it*
[12:47:13] <Darke> Wumpus: I don't mind 'functional' languages. The problem is, that most of them are rather... non-functional when you're trying to do something non-trivial in them. It'd be nice if the hascall syntax was a bit more readable too IMHO.
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[12:48:00] <Wumpus> darke- re syntax, i think thats probably largely a result of what you're used to... its different, but i now find it qutie readable, that i have some more experience with it
[12:48:34] <Wumpus> and Manuel in paticular, and others, are busily getting a useful FFI and other library things for it, quite a lot already works
[12:48:51] <Wumpus> ((IE so you can use C libraries etc)
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[12:49:37] <wjp> so... what's wrong with the cvs ML?
[12:49:56] <Wumpus> ML?
[12:50:53] <Darke> Wumpus: <nod> I know, the problem for me was, it seems that it's designed with a very steep learning curve for the syntax at the beginning, then gets easier the more you know. Which is the 'inverse' of the way I learn to program and read the languages, and why it makes my head hurt when I try to read it. <grin>
[12:51:12] <Wumpus> darke- hehe yeah :) i can believe that :)
[12:51:22] <Colourless> hu
[12:51:22] <Colourless> hi
[12:51:25] <Wumpus> oh, hmm, problems with CVS... that reminds me
[12:51:46] * Wumpus never got round to formally bitching about the compile thing :P
[12:53:25] * Darke is actually wondering about all the problems in relation to sstream (or whatever), he added to Configuration.h, since it's apparently a part of the C++ stdlib.
[12:57:28] <Colourless> blame fingolfin :-)
[13:00:48] <Darke> <shrug> I could understand if I was using the std::ostrstream class, which uses char* and is depreciated. But I'm using std::ostringstream, which uses std::string and is all well, and good and proper. <grin> Old compiler perhaps?
[13:01:20] <Colourless> wjp: are you fixing the shapes, or replacing them all with text buttons?
[13:01:31] <wjp> Colourless: already did that last night
[13:01:48] <Colourless> so, where is the mail?
[13:01:51] <wjp> not a clue
[13:01:58] <Wumpus> hehe i noticed that, was wondering what had happened :)
[13:02:08] * wjp blames Tristan's changes to the CVSROOT dir :-)
[13:02:41] * Darke snickers.
[13:03:43] <Darkatom> all of you finished playing U7??
[13:04:00] <Wumpus> hehe, i really ought to get around to finishing SI...
[13:04:01] <wjp> Colourless: all text shapes are gone. I fixed all (I hope) the non-text shapes, and I also added support for custom resolutions & custom framerates to the video & gameplay options gumps
[13:04:18] <Wumpus> wjp- ooooooh :) nice
[13:04:37] <Colourless> great
[13:05:39] <Darkatom> that was what i was looking for
[13:05:59] <Darkatom> wjp
[13:06:05] <Darkatom> I have read
[13:06:12] <wjp> (re. custom res & custom fr.rate: only if you entered them in exult.cfg, btw)
[13:06:33] <Wumpus> oh... what would have occured previously if you put somethign funny in exult.cfg?
[13:06:38] <Darkatom> that u don't think to make U7 as UOL
[13:06:40] <Darkatom> why?
[13:06:53] * Wumpus runs for cover
[13:07:22] <wjp> Wumpus: it replaced it by one of the available options
[13:07:26] <Darkatom> (it's only a question)
[13:07:57] <wjp> answer is in the FAQ
[13:08:23] <wjp> http://exult.sourceforge.net/faq.php#NEC
[13:08:50] <Darkatom> is the FAQ answer your personal answer?
[13:09:17] <-- Colourless has left IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
[13:09:25] <wjp> no, that's Jeff's answer
[13:09:41] <Wumpus> oh cool, max horn already fixed the thing in makefile.am
[13:09:45] <Wumpus> goodo
[13:09:46] <Darkatom> I can't compile exult on AIX
[13:09:54] <Wumpus> (does max horn come here under some name?)
[13:10:34] <wjp> Wumpus: yeah, "Fingolfin"
[13:10:50] <Darkatom> can I paste here the compilation error?
[13:10:54] <Wumpus> wjp- oh, hehe, cool :)
[13:11:05] <wjp> Darkatom: if it's not too big
[13:11:17] * Wumpus notes that there's a who is who page, hehe, oops :P
[13:11:25] <Darkatom> 9 lines
[13:11:51] <Darkatom> ok?
[13:12:13] <wjp> k
[13:12:21] <Darkatom> from Gamemenu_gump.cc:31:
[13:12:23] <Darkatom> ../shapes/shapeinf.h: In method `bool Shape_info::has_quality()':
[13:12:23] <Darkatom> ../shapes/shapeinf.h:260: warning: sorry: semantics of inline function static data `bool qual[16]' are wrong (you'll wind up with multiple copies)
[13:12:23] <Darkatom> ../shapes/shapeinf.h:260: warning: you can work around this by removing the initializer
[13:12:23] <Darkatom> In file included from Gamemenu_gump.cc:35:
[13:12:23] <Darkatom> gump_utils.h: In function `void Delay()':
[13:12:25] <Darkatom> gump_utils.h:91: implicit declaration of function `int bzero(...)'
[13:12:27] <Darkatom> make: The error code from the last command is 1.
[13:12:47] <Darkatom> there are more errors than that
[13:12:50] <Wumpus> hmm this sounds familiar.....
[13:13:01] <Wumpus> but too tired right now to think :( bed in a few minutes
[13:13:05] <Darkatom> but all are the same
[13:13:53] <Darkatom> this is what happen when I try to compile exult on AIX
[13:13:59] <wjp> gumps/gump_utils.h: change line 83 ("#ifdef XWIN") to "#if 0"
[13:14:36] <Darkatom> ok, let's see
[13:15:15] <Darke> Using gcc under AIX or the c/cpp compiler that comes with it?
[13:15:38] <Wumpus> hehe
[13:15:44] <Wumpus> oh dear, this is not good
[13:15:51] <Darkatom> mmm
[13:16:14] <wjp> the comment about shapeinf.h sounds valid. a static var in an inline function probably won't do what you'd expect
[13:16:15] <Wumpus> Makefile.am SUBDIRS: data needs to go after tools (so that expack is compiled)
[13:16:25] <Darkatom> gcc or c++
[13:17:16] <Wumpus> (does someone want to fix that now, who knows what other reprocussions tehre might be, or should i make a bug report)
[13:17:34] <wjp> uh oh... this may be a cyclic dependency
[13:17:50] <wjp> although... maybe not
[13:17:57] <wjp> does conf depend on data?
[13:18:46] <Darke> wjp: No, not that I know of.
[13:18:48] <Wumpus> not obviously so, but thats just why i went "oh dear" at first
[13:18:54] <wjp> if not, try: files conf tools data flic audio pathfinder ....
[13:19:53] <Darke> files/conf/tools works.
[13:20:04] <Darke> (from a `make clean`)
[13:20:51] <Wumpus> hehe getting an answer from me will take a little longer *chases computer with a red hot poker*
[13:21:04] <Darke> As does ...data/flic/audio/pathfinder.
[13:21:36] <Darke> So it shouldn't have a problem, I'm guessing.
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[13:22:29] <Wumpus> on the topic though, maybe --disable-tools needs to be removed, or at least altered... (or maybe thats been done already, hehe)
[13:23:52] <wjp> already done
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[13:24:02] <wjp> expack is always built
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[13:24:09] <Wumpus> hehe okie :) cool
[13:24:46] <Wumpus> okay, got as far as "files" with the new order, and all is good... mind you, i didn't start with a completely clean slate (just picked up where it left off earlier) but hopefully near enough...
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[13:25:43] <Darkatom> can I paste the last error?
[13:26:05] <Darkatom> heh
[13:26:12] <Wumpus> time for me to wrap this up tomorrow, sleep now, g'night all
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[13:26:54] <wjp> if it's not too big again :-)
[13:26:59] <Darkatom> hehe
[13:27:03] <Darkatom> In file included from ../shapes/shapevga.h:34,
[13:27:03] <Darkatom> from ../gamewin.h:32,
[13:27:03] <Darkatom> from Gamemenu_gump.cc:31:
[13:27:03] <Darkatom> ../shapes/shapeinf.h: In method `bool Shape_info::has_quality()':
[13:27:05] <Darkatom> ../shapes/shapeinf.h:260: warning: sorry: semantics of inline function static data `bool qual[16]' are wrong (you'll wind up with multiple copies)
[13:27:08] <Darkatom> ../shapes/shapeinf.h:260: warning: you can work around this by removing the initializer
[13:27:10] <Darkatom> In file included from Gamemenu_gump.cc:35:
[13:27:12] <Darkatom> gump_utils.h: In function `void Delay()':
[13:27:14] <Darkatom> gump_utils.h:96: implicit declaration of function `int SDL_Delay(...)'
[13:27:16] <Darkatom> make: The error code from the last command is 1.
[13:27:18] <Darkatom> take that
[13:27:30] <wjp> oh, right...
[13:27:48] <wjp> remove lines 34 and 36 from gump_utils.h ("#ifndef XWIN" and "#endif")
[13:28:08] <Darkatom> ok
[13:28:19] * wjp has a feeling we should always use SDL_Delay instead of this unportable select thing
[13:28:55] <Darkatom> mm
[13:29:03] <Darkatom> line 34 is #include "SDL_timer.h"
[13:29:13] <Darkatom> should i remove that?
[13:29:16] <wjp> 33 and 35 time
[13:29:20] <wjp> s/time/then/
[13:29:35] <Darkatom> ok
[13:29:45] <Darkatom> only that lines?
[13:29:48] <wjp> you should remove the lines around SDL_timer.h. (The lines "#ifndef XWIN" and "#endif")
[13:30:00] <Darkatom> ok
[13:31:35] <Darkatom> compiling...
[13:31:59] <Darkatom> oops
[13:32:03] <Darkatom> more errors
[13:32:28] <Darkatom> all the same
[13:35:03] <Darkatom> wjp
[13:35:12] <Darkatom> and what about the line /shapes/shapeinf.h:260
[13:35:40] <Darkatom> this error repeats all the time
[13:35:48] <wjp> it's just a warning
[13:35:57] <Darkatom> ok
[13:36:32] <Darkatom> I didn't realize of that, thanks
[13:44:21] <Darkatom> wjp: why FreeBSD exult is in alpha phase yet?
[13:44:43] <wjp> because nobody compiled a freebsd binary yet
[13:45:05] <wjp> ...and none of the developers have access to a freebsd machine
[13:45:14] <Darkatom> that means if I compile exult on AIX I'll be the first?
[13:45:26] <wjp> the first I know of, yes
[13:45:52] <Darkatom> that sound good
[13:46:22] <Darkatom> I have beed trying to compile exult on QNX too
[13:47:14] <Darkatom> but I don't know if there were the same errors I have reported
[13:47:58] <Darkatom> what's this?
[13:48:00] <Darkatom> server.cc: In function `void Server_init()':
[13:48:01] <wjp> the last time I tried QNX it didn't work because SDL didn't work on QNX properly yet
[13:48:01] <Darkatom> server.cc:128: `PF_LOCAL' undeclared (first use this function)
[13:48:01] <Darkatom> server.cc:128: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
[13:48:01] <Darkatom> server.cc:128: for each function it appears in.)
[13:48:01] <Darkatom> server.cc: In function `void Server_delay()':
[13:48:01] <Darkatom> server.cc:259: implicit declaration of function `int bzero(...)'
[13:48:03] <Darkatom> make: The error code from the last command is 1.
[13:49:28] <wjp> try removing the lines "#ifdef __sun__" and "#endif" in server.cc, line 76 and 78
[13:49:41] <Darkatom> ok
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[13:52:43] <wjp> that should be line 76 and 79, btw
[13:52:55] * wjp can't count
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[14:25:20] * Darke watches Colourless bounce.
[14:27:02] <Darke> !8ball Bounce?
[14:27:02] * MiniMe looks in the 8 Ball and the answer is... 3 I CAUGHT COREY WATCHING JAPSCAT!
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[14:39:21] <Darkatom> hi
[14:39:30] <Darkatom> wjp: are u there?
[14:39:33] * Darke bows, "Hello again."
[14:40:04] <Darkatom> hi everyone
[14:40:33] <Darkatom> the compilation gives me another error
[14:40:35] <Darkatom> from server.cc:62:
[14:40:35] <Colourless> h :-)
[14:40:36] <Darkatom> ../shapes/shapeinf.h: In method `bool Shape_info::has_quality()':
[14:40:36] <Darkatom> ../shapes/shapeinf.h:260: warning: sorry: semantics of inline function static data `bool qual[16]' are wrong (you'll wind up with multiple copies)
[14:40:36] <Darkatom> ../shapes/shapeinf.h:260: warning: you can work around this by removing the initializer
[14:40:36] <Darkatom> server.cc: In function `void Server_delay()':
[14:40:37] <Darkatom> server.cc:259: implicit declaration of function `int bzero(...)'
[14:40:39] <Darkatom> make: The error code from the last command is 1.
[14:41:10] <Darkatom> do you know what's wrong with it?
[14:41:28] * Darke thinks Colourless is getting a bit... minimalistic in his greetings. Just a 'h'? <snicker>
[14:42:14] <Darke> Hmm... `man bzero` says we should be using 'memset', since bzero is depreciated.
[14:42:35] <Colourless> shut up you
[14:43:41] --- matto is now known as matto|q2source
[14:43:56] <Darke> <grin> replace `bzero(string_ptr, size);` with `memset(string_ptr, '\0', size);` That should be correct.
[14:44:23] <Darke> (Replacing whatever is 'string_ptr' and 'size' with the correct variable names of course.)
[14:44:42] <Darkatom> whose grin?
[14:45:06] <Colourless> matto: make your own engine :-)
[14:45:30] <Darke> Darkatom: Sorry, it's an 'emote' replace with a ':-)'.
[14:49:51] * Darke considers finding all the function names listed under man3 that say they are depreciated, and use them to grep over the exult source tree...
[14:52:38] <wjp> Darkatom: this is the same error as one earlier, only in a different file
[14:53:02] <wjp> well, similar
[14:54:30] <wjp> part of the problem is that we don't call bzero directory, but it's used in a macro
[14:54:39] <wjp> s/directory/directly/ argh
[14:54:48] <Darkatom> and what must I do?
[14:55:39] <wjp> try adding a line "#include <cstring>" in server.cc
[14:56:08] <Darkatom> ok
[14:56:15] <wjp> under the "#include <stdio.h>" would probably be a good place
[14:56:26] <wjp> eh... stdio.h?
[14:56:33] * wjp replaces that by <cstdio>
[14:57:31] <Darkatom> yes
[14:57:43] <wjp> not sure if it will fix it, though
[14:57:52] <Darkatom> but cstring must be cstring.h?
[14:57:55] <wjp> no
[14:58:01] <wjp> cstring
[14:58:05] <Darkatom> ok
[14:58:23] <Darkatom> compiling...
[14:58:42] <wjp> could you do a "man bzero" on the AIX system?
[14:59:10] <Darkatom> yes
[14:59:23] <wjp> does it say which header you should include?
[14:59:30] <Darkatom> what do u want me to look for?
[14:59:57] <wjp> any "#include <..>" statements?
[15:00:08] <matto|q2source> Colourless: I've got it running in linux using SDL's GL ... with no input hehe
[15:00:16] <matto|q2source> (once you start it you have to kill the process hehe)
[15:00:19] <wjp> matto|q2source: Q2, I take it? :-)
[15:00:21] <matto|q2source> I guess SDL input is the next step
[15:00:29] <matto|q2source> wjp: yep...
[15:00:31] <Darkatom> yes
[15:00:39] <Darkatom> strings.h
[15:00:40] <matto|q2source> I guess it's the source to v3.19 which apparently did not include zoid's GLX version
[15:00:48] <matto|q2source> so I just took his Mesa version and modified it for SDL GL
[15:00:54] <wjp> "strings.h" ??
[15:00:58] <wjp> sure about the spelling?
[15:01:13] <matto|q2source> I'm sure someone else has already done this SDL work, but it's still fun :)
[15:01:18] <Darkatom> i can paste the syntax if u want
[15:01:26] <Colourless> why no input?
[15:01:50] <matto|q2source> Colourless: because the pre-existing input was for SVGALIB which I cannot use.. so I just stripped out all the svgalib calls and put stub functions
[15:01:56] <matto|q2source> I will need to write SDL input functions next
[15:01:57] <wjp> Darkatom: did it already compile ok, btw?
[15:02:02] <Darke> wjp: It should be correct. <grin> AIX is apparently... ideosyncratic in some areas in relation to the compiler.
[15:02:51] <Darkatom> no, it gives me another error:
[15:02:56] <Darkatom> server.cc: In function `void Server_delay()':
[15:02:56] <Darkatom> server.cc:260: implicit declaration of function `int bzero(...)'
[15:02:56] <Darkatom> make: The error code from the last command is 1.
[15:03:04] * wjp nods... same one
[15:03:27] <wjp> ok, try "#include <strings.h>" instead of "#include <cstring>" then
[15:03:38] <Darkatom> ok
[15:03:55] <wjp> funny... solaris uses "strings.h" too
[15:04:39] <wjp> Darkatom: do you know if there's a #define we can use to detect AIX in exult?
[15:04:44] <Darke> wjp: I had the feeling I had encountered that under solaris. I don't particularly know why it was done like that though. Perhaps it's an old K&Rism?
[15:05:18] <Darkatom> it doesn't compile
[15:05:33] <Darkatom> i don't know
[15:05:40] <wjp> "X/Open System Interfaces and Headers, Issue 4, Version 2, defines both <string.h> and <strings.h>."
[15:05:48] <wjp> (from the Solaris strings.h)
[15:06:15] <wjp> Darkatom: try running the following: g++ -E -dM - < /dev/null
[15:06:45] <Darkatom> ok
[15:06:59] <Darkatom> take note
[15:07:03] <Darkatom> #define __GNUC_MINOR__ 95
[15:07:04] <Darkatom> #define _AIX 1
[15:07:04] <Darkatom> #define _LONG_LONG 1
[15:07:04] <Darkatom> #define _ARCH_COM 1
[15:07:04] <Darkatom> #define __CHAR_UNSIGNED__ 1
[15:07:04] <Darkatom> #define _AIX32 1
[15:07:06] <Darkatom> #define _AIX41 1
[15:07:08] <Darkatom> #define _AIX43 1
[15:07:10] <Darkatom> #define __GNUC__ 2
[15:07:12] <Darkatom> #define _POWER 1
[15:07:14] <Darkatom> #define _IBMR2 1
[15:07:25] * wjp wonders how many defines there are going to be
[15:07:39] <Darkatom> hehe
[15:07:47] <wjp> ok, not that many :-)
[15:07:51] <Darke> wjp: (strings.h) Under this version of gcc as well. But the strings.h file is a subset of string.h
[15:08:13] <wjp> ok... so "_AIX" should work
[15:08:57] <Darkatom> tell me what to do, then...
[15:09:06] <wjp> still the bzero error?
[15:09:44] <Darkatom> I haven't do anything since the last error
[15:09:56] <wjp> did you try the "#include <strings.h>" ?
[15:10:13] <Darkatom> and it was:
[15:10:22] <Darkatom> yes, of course
[15:10:47] <Darkatom> but
[15:11:02] <Darkatom> string.h or strings.h?
[15:11:11] <wjp> strings.h. (The one from the manpage)
[15:12:36] <Darkatom> that was the problem
[15:12:41] <Darkatom> now compiles
[15:12:55] <Darkatom> and let's see what's the next problem
[15:12:56] <wjp> ok, good. I'll add these few fixes to CVS
[15:13:03] <Darkatom> ok
[15:14:30] * wjp removes the lookup-table for has_quality() too
[15:17:18] <Darkatom> wjp: this compilation is giving always the same warnings
[15:17:30] <Darkatom> is that so important?
[15:17:32] <wjp> the shapeinf.h one?
[15:17:37] <Darkatom> yes
[15:17:43] <Darkatom> line 260
[15:17:45] <wjp> not really important, but I just fixed it in CVS
[15:17:52] <wjp> (well, not committed yet)
[15:17:55] <Darkatom> ok
[15:18:09] <Darkatom> and i saw another warning
[15:18:54] <Darkatom> it's this
[15:18:56] <Darkatom> In file included from drag.cc:37:
[15:18:56] <Darkatom> objs/barge.h: In method `Barge_object::Barge_object(int, int, unsigned int, unsigned int, unsigned int, int, int, int)':
[15:18:56] <Darkatom> objs/barge.h:68: warning: assignment of negative value `-1' to `char'
[15:19:30] <wjp> AIX's char is unsigned?
[15:20:21] <Darkatom> I have no idea
[15:20:56] <Colourless> it says it is in thte defines
[15:21:19] <Darkatom> #define __CHAR_UNSIGNED__ 1 ?
[15:21:32] <wjp> heh, didn't even notice that :-)
[15:22:07] <Darkatom> must be fixed?
[15:22:37] <Colourless> a command line option for gcc should change that
[15:23:00] <wjp> yes, -fsigned-char
[15:23:49] <Darkatom> what do I do now?
[15:24:04] <wjp> hmm
[15:24:55] <wjp> we could add this to the cflags/cxxflags for any platform, if the compiler is gcc
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[15:30:23] <Darkatom> ooooppsss!!
[15:31:24] <Darkatom> this is an strange error
[15:32:48] <Darkatom> may I paste it or do you want a text file? (if you want) it's a little long
[15:33:00] <wjp> in what file is it?
[15:33:38] <wjp> anyway, text file is probably easiest
[15:34:06] <Darkatom> I can send it to you by DCC
[15:34:09] <wjp> k
[15:37:30] <Darkatom> wjp: are you reciving the file?
[15:37:46] <wjp> no
[15:37:57] <wjp> "Received a malformed DCC request from Darkatom"
[15:38:15] <Darkatom> oops
[15:38:28] <Darkatom> please wait
[15:39:47] <Darkatom> my DCC doesn't work
[15:39:52] <Darkatom> I don't know why
[15:40:52] <Darkatom> wait
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[16:36:57] * Darke thinks there should have been a 'jump if equal' opcode to complement the 'jump if not equal' opcode. Probably because of all the 'not
[16:37:02] * Darke thinks there should have been a 'jump if equal' opcode to complement the 'jump if not equal' opcode. Probably because of all the 'not
[16:37:13] * Darke thinks there should have been a 'jump if equal' opcode to complement the 'jump if not equal' opcode. Probably because of all the 'not
[16:37:20] * Darke thinks there should have been a 'jump if equal' opcode to complement the 'jump if not equal' opcode. Probably because of all the 'not; jne (somewhere)' sequences.
[16:37:42] * matto|q2source thinks that Darke is spamming the channel
[16:37:51] * Darke blinks and wonders how to turn this _stupid_ script facility off in his irc client. <grr>
[16:38:07] * matto|q2source got keyboard input working in quake2
[16:38:25] <Darke> For some reason, in actions and _only_ in actions it interprets '"' and ';' as
[16:38:29] <wjp> matto|q2source: getting a decent framerate?
[16:38:37] <Darke> For some reason, in actions and _only_ in actions it interprets '"' and ';' as 'special characters'.
[16:38:46] <matto|q2source> wjp: of course! athlon 1.4 ghz, geforce3 :)
[16:38:52] <wjp> hehe, nice :-)
[16:38:55] <Darke> matto: Cool!
[16:39:02] <matto|q2source> SysInfo: Linux 2.4.12-686 | AMD Athlon(tm) Processor 1404.207 MHz | Mem: 205/514M 14[43||||||||||14] | Diskspace: 22G Free: 2G | Bogomips: 2798.38 | Screen Res: 1280x1024 | Procs: 76 | | Uptime: 22:55 | Load Average: 0.11, 0.31, 0.25 | eth0: In: 12.50M Out: 4.84M
[16:39:07] * matto|q2source sends some spam of his own to the channel
[16:39:17] <wjp> so, what kind of 'decent' are we talking about here? :-)
[16:39:26] <matto|q2source> would you like me to do a timedemo?
[16:39:37] <wjp> if you feel like it :-)
[16:39:48] <matto|q2source> why I don't know how else you'd like me to describe the framerate
[16:39:55] <matto|q2source> how about "smooth, very smooth"
[16:40:01] <wjp> good enough for me :-)
[16:40:06] <matto|q2source> I can't currently start a map because it segfaults, although it does play the demo loop
[16:40:12] <matto|q2source> so I'm going to track down that segfault now
[16:41:29] <wjp> how big is that quake2.zip, btw? (roughly)
[16:41:59] <wjp> < 10Mb?
[16:42:09] <matto|q2source> -rw-r--r-- 1 matt matt 1509718 Dec 21 22:55 quake2.zip
[16:42:18] <wjp> oh, is that all
[16:42:26] * wjp downloads
[16:42:30] <matto|q2source> yep... like quake1, it's small
[16:42:49] <wjp> oh, wait... doesn't include the data, right
[16:42:50] <wjp> ?
[16:43:22] * Darke nods, you need your own copy of quake2 to run it.
[16:43:53] * wjp has one :-)
[16:44:04] <matto|q2source> it's just to compile the executable and the .so files
[16:44:11] <matto|q2source> blast! gdb tells me nothing about this segfault!
[16:44:20] <matto|q2source> (gdb) bt
[16:44:20] <matto|q2source> #0 0x44c8f35c in ?? ()
[16:44:22] <matto|q2source> how quaint!
[16:44:44] <wjp> compiled with some really aggressive optimizations?
[16:44:48] * Darke blinks... how useful.
[16:45:04] <wjp> (-fomit-frame-pointer?)
[16:45:05] <matto|q2source> no, just -g
[16:46:55] <matto|q2source> oh no
[16:46:59] <matto|q2source> it's the gcc/dll bug!
[16:47:14] <wjp> que?
[16:48:02] <wjp> ftp.idsoftware.com seems to be slightly overloaded atm :-)
[16:48:17] <wjp> "You are user 228 of 225 available connections."
[16:48:41] <Colourless> a quake 3 patch was release yesterday
[16:49:22] <wjp> matto|q2source: thanks, but I just got in
[16:50:38] <matto|q2source> well I declare my SDL/GL quake2 to be working perfectly! :)
[16:51:01] <matto|q2source> if you ignore the fact that I haven't added mouse support yet :)
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[16:51:14] * Darke applauds, "Have you got quake2gl.sourceforge.net yet?" <grin>
[16:51:19] <Darkatom> hi again
[16:51:25] <matto|q2source> Darke: no
[16:51:30] <Darke> Hello.
[16:51:32] <wjp> wb
[16:52:03] <matto|q2source> Darke: I thought I would do all the coding myself ...
[16:52:08] <matto|q2source> so I could learn something
[16:52:20] <Darke> matto: <grin> Fair enough.
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[16:53:09] <matto|q2source> but... if they've figured out a fix for the gcc bug, I'd like to know about it
[16:54:47] <matto|q2source> Darke: that url seems invalid, did you just make it up?
[16:55:07] * wjp thinks Darke was suggesting matto request that project name
[16:55:47] * Darke nods, and points out that wjp's thoughts are correct. <grin>
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[16:56:17] <wjp> wb again :-)
[16:56:23] <Darkatom> hehe
[16:56:25] <Darkatom> hi
[16:56:38] <Darke> It was a subtle "Quick! Go register it, and you'll have an army of loyal coders at your heels! <maniacal-laugh>"
[16:57:22] <matto|q2source> oh I see
[16:57:37] <Darkatom> wjp
[16:58:03] <matto|q2source> I've already got a project to manage ...
[16:58:19] <matto|q2source> I do have some interesting ideas for quake2 mods though :)
[16:59:19] <wjp> Darkatom: it looks like you didn't compile SDL with audio support
[16:59:54] <Darkatom> are u sure?
[17:00:05] <wjp> no
[17:00:15] * Darke still thinks that "A fanatical army of coders worships at my feet." would be a really nifty thing to put on a resmue. <grin>
[17:00:27] <Darkatom> I have just compile SDL with --disable-audio option
[17:00:40] <wjp> now I am sure, though :-)
[17:01:22] <Darkatom> can I disable the audio option to compile exult?
[17:01:27] <wjp> 'fraid not
[17:01:51] <wjp> we've been planning to support this for some time, but nobody ever got around to actually doing it
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[17:02:19] <wjp|afk> bbl (15 mins. or so)
[17:03:30] <Darkatom> then I can't continue compiling exult ... :(
[17:07:40] <Darke> Currently, no.
[17:08:16] * Darke mumbles something vaguely offensive about iterators.
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[17:17:04] * Darke watches Colourless reappear right where he was pouring a can, of a rather fetching shade of army-green paint onto the ground. Does that mean he's now a Green Dragon?
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[17:18:44] * Darke now has images of Green Dragons standing on street corners, talking to passers by about 'Saving the Whales' and 'Say NO to Nukes' and such.
[17:20:10] <Colourless> and why are pouring green paint all over the place?
[17:20:31] <wjp> Colourless: disabling audio at compile time would probably be easiest by writing a dummy Audio class, right?
[17:21:24] <Colourless> probably
[17:22:04] <Darke> Colourless: No reason. <innocentfluff>
[17:22:26] <Colourless> you know what I think about you being innocent
[17:22:37] <wjp> well, green is a step up from fluorescent pink, I guess
[17:24:10] <wjp> Darkatom: still here?
[17:24:16] <Darkatom> yes
[17:24:18] * Darke is more surprised that no one has complained about him describing army-green paint as 'fetching'. <snicker>
[17:24:30] <wjp> another link error might be fixed by the following:
[17:24:39] <Darke> Colourless: You don't think that I am? <innocentwiggle>
[17:25:00] <wjp> in objs/objs.cc, there's two "#ifdef ALPHA_LINUX_CXX" lines
[17:25:45] <wjp> try replacing those by "#if (defined(ALPHA_LINUX_CXX) || defined(_AIX))"
[17:26:31] <Darkatom> ok
[17:26:34] <wjp> (lines 388 and 456 here, but they may be different lines in your version)
[17:28:06] <wjp> That will hopefully get rid of the "undefined symbol" lines about "find_nearby"
[17:28:33] <Darkatom> do you know what?
[17:29:13] <Darkatom> I had delete part of the exult source code (compiled), :o
[17:29:25] <Darkatom> i'm compiling again...
[17:29:46] <wjp> it won't work, btw, as it still needs SDL audio
[17:30:24] <Darkatom> then I'll try with an audio compiled library
[17:30:33] <Darkatom> all right?
[17:33:58] <wjp> sure :-)
[17:34:30] <wjp> then there's still the problem of those couple of undefined X symbols
[17:36:13] <Darkatom> but It can be fixed with what you told me?
[17:36:30] <Darkatom> by replacing those by "#if (defined(ALPHA_LINUX_CXX) || defined(_AIX))"
[17:36:34] <Darkatom> or not?
[17:36:45] <wjp> there's three problems in the error.txt file you dcc'ed me:
[17:36:57] <Darkatom> yes
[17:37:03] <wjp> 1) "Undefined symbol: SDL....": fixabled by compiling SDL with audio support
[17:37:18] <-- matto|q2source has left IRC ("Play Dragon's Lair in linux - http://www.daphne-emu.com - Developers welcome :)")
[17:37:27] <wjp> 2) "Undefined symbol: Game_object::find_nearby(....)": fixable by replacing that #ifdef
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[17:37:45] <wjp> 3) "Undefined symbol: X..." : not sure what'll fix that
[17:38:53] <wjp> it's probably just adding a -lX or something, though
[17:39:58] <Colourless> find_nearby is just horrible. it breaks on more systems than any other part of exult
[17:41:52] <Darkatom> by making all that fixes, do you think it'll still compiling?
[17:42:37] <wjp> I hope so
[17:42:57] <Darkatom> i'll try
[17:43:08] <Darkatom> now I must leave
[17:43:16] <wjp> bye
[17:44:01] <Darkatom> bye
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[17:45:16] * Darke must also leave, he's falling asleep at the keyboard. <grin> "Night all."
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[18:54:07] <Colourless> !8ball 8ball?
[18:54:07] * MiniMe looks in the 8 Ball and the answer is... 3 OMGOOSES
[18:54:34] <matto> mouse support is wookin ... unfortunately it's a bit jerky
[19:00:17] <matto> cancel that.. it seems to be pretty smooth .. :)
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[22:50:35] <wjp> brb
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