#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 22 Jan 2001 (GMT)

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[06:11:17] <-- exultbot has left IRC (signing off...)
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[06:14:22] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult, the opensource Ultima 7 and Ultima 7 Part II engine. Now with paperdolls :-)
[06:14:22] --- Topic for #exult set by Colourless at Fri Jan 19 00:29:45 2001
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[06:42:57] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult, the opensource Ultima 7 and Ultima 7 Part II engine. Now with paperdolls :-)
[06:42:57] --- Topic for #exult set by Colourless at Fri Jan 19 06:30:01 2001
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[10:02:22] <Nadir> hi max
[10:02:25] <Fingolfin> hi tristan
[10:02:35] <Fingolfin> I am working a bit on exult right now, replacing all sprintf with snprintf
[10:02:46] <Fingolfin> and just got it to compile again on macos ;)
[10:02:50] <Nadir> good. sprintf is evil.
[10:02:54] <Fingolfin> yep
[10:03:07] <Fingolfin> and in fact in one or two places I think we might have overwritten memory by accident...
[10:06:27] <Nadir> Yes, I've been bitten by something like that: selecting journey onward on a particular gamedat would crash Exult before the game appeared
[10:07:44] <Fingolfin> well
[10:07:47] <Nadir> macOS X ?
[10:08:15] <Fingolfin> not yet :/
[10:08:37] <Nadir> Will you be able to compile GIMP on MacOS X?
[10:08:45] <Fingolfin> in theory, yes
[10:08:58] <Nadir> So you can use the U7 SHP plugin ? :-)
[10:09:03] <Fingolfin> I think there are even some people working on this (GIMP on OS X I mean)
[10:09:13] <Fingolfin> once I have OS X and GIMP running it, then I guess yes ;)
[10:09:28] <Fingolfin> oh, and sorry
[10:09:38] <Nadir> what for ?
[10:09:47] <Fingolfin> for the two dozen emails you'll get in a few ;)
[10:09:54] <Nadir> ah ! :-)
[10:11:27] <Nadir> got them !
[10:11:36] <Fingolfin> hehe
[10:11:40] <Fingolfin> not all yet I guess...
[10:13:54] <Nadir> 30
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[10:14:25] <Fingolfin|busy> hey, you get them quicker than me ;)
[10:14:40] <Nadir> My mail server is in the US
[10:15:29] <Fingolfin|busy> I see
[10:16:47] <Fingolfin|busy> ah I forgot one change in bggame.cc
[10:16:57] <Fingolfin|busy> but now you should be able to safely update ;)
[10:18:30] <Nadir> got it
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[10:18:45] <Nadir> compiling MAME at the moment
[10:19:03] <Nadir> Will compile Exult as soon as that is finished
[10:19:27] <Nadir> Hi Kirben !
[10:19:49] <Kirben> Hi
[10:20:10] * Nadir thinks that we should have a screenshot with paperdolls in BG on the web page
[10:21:32] <Kirben> Yes might as well show it off
[10:22:20] <Kirben> hmm compile is still broken
[10:22:25] <Fingolfin|busy> Nadir: right!!!
[10:22:33] <Fingolfin|busy> Kirben: get the very latest CVS
[10:22:39] <Fingolfin|busy> Kirben: I just fixed a typo :/
[10:22:58] <Kirben> I got the bggame.cc update
[10:23:05] <Fingolfin|busy> after that
[10:23:10] <Fingolfin|busy> a few secs ago
[10:23:49] <Kirben> hmm, I better set email to 1 minute
[10:23:55] <Fingolfin|busy> hehe
[10:24:11] <Fingolfin|busy> just do another CVS update, then you should be fine, it compile for me at least
[10:24:32] <Fingolfin|busy> if it still does not compile for you, then it is a problem of oyur compiler ;))))
[10:24:34] <Nadir> got the mail just now
[10:25:05] <Fingolfin|busy> me too
[10:26:20] <Kirben> this is error:
[10:26:22] <Kirben> g++ -mwindows -O2 -DVERSION=\"0.90alpha1\" -DEXULT_DATADIR=\"data\" -g3 -DDEBUG
[10:26:22] <Kirben> -DSIZEOF_SHORT=2 -DSIZEOF_INT=4 -I./imagewin -I./shapes -I./files -I. -I./audio
[10:26:22] <Kirben> -I./conf -I./gumps -I./objs -I./pathfinder -I./usecode -I./sdl/include -c -o bg
[10:26:22] <Kirben> game.o bggame.cc
[10:26:25] <Kirben> bggame.cc: In method `bool BG_Game::new_game(Vga_file &)':
[10:26:27] <Kirben> bggame.cc:1277: implicit declaration of function `int snprintf(...)'
[10:26:30] <Kirben> make: *** [bggame.o] Error 1
[10:26:34] <Fingolfin|busy> hm
[10:26:38] <Fingolfin|busy> windows...
[10:26:38] <Kirben> any ideas ?
[10:26:47] <Fingolfin|busy> maybe you need to include a special header for snprintf?
[10:26:56] <Fingolfin|busy> or maybe (shudder) you have no snprintf at all?
[10:27:01] <Fingolfin|busy> hrm
[10:27:06] <Fingolfin|busy> but g++ should include it somewhere
[10:27:23] <Fingolfin|busy> try adding an #include <stdio.h> to the top
[10:28:15] <Kirben> I have a stdio.h file in gcc, will try
[10:28:19] <Nadir> It is defined in stdio.h under Linux
[10:28:30] <Fingolfin|busy> well, and on mac, too
[10:29:04] <Nadir> MAME compilation is still going
[10:29:31] <Kirben> same error
[10:29:44] <Fingolfin|busy> hm
[10:30:05] <Fingolfin|busy> can you search through all your include headers for snprintf? I mean, all of the "system" headers?
[10:30:32] <Fingolfin|busy> hm, avatar is still visible for a split second when you create a new SI game
[10:30:39] <Nadir> Otherwise we need to provide snprintf
[10:30:42] <Fingolfin|busy> maybe he should start out invisible?
[10:30:49] <Fingolfin|busy> Nadir: hrm, yes...
[10:31:06] <Fingolfin|busy> in the worst case we could "emulate" it using vsprintf, but w/o range check
[10:31:13] <Nadir> I have a simple implementation of snprintf, which I used for SANE
[10:32:04] <Fingolfin|busy> ok
[10:32:06] <Fingolfin|busy> uh-oh
[10:32:10] <Kirben> shows up in seven files, libcrtdll.a, libmsvcrt.a, libmsvcrt20.a, libmsvcrt40.a, stdio.h, tchar.h and libioP.h
[10:32:18] <Fingolfin|busy> after the teleport storm, am I supposed to still have a magic shield?
[10:32:26] <Fingolfin|busy> Kirben: err... dcc me your stdio.h, please
[10:33:40] <Kirben> using gcc 2.95.2-1 here
[10:34:11] <Fingolfin|busy> ahhh
[10:34:15] <Fingolfin|busy> you need to add this:
[10:34:31] <Fingolfin|busy> #define snprintf _snprintf
[10:34:46] <Fingolfin|busy> but if possible only for your compiler... hrm
[10:35:47] <Kirben> another error:
[10:35:48] <Kirben> g++ -mwindows -O2 -DVERSION=\"0.90alpha1\" -DEXULT_DATADIR=\"data\" -g3 -DDEBUG
[10:35:49] <Kirben> -DSIZEOF_SHORT=2 -DSIZEOF_INT=4 -I./imagewin -I./shapes -I./files -I. -I./audio
[10:35:49] <Kirben> -I./conf -I./gumps -I./objs -I./pathfinder -I./usecode -I./sdl/include -c -o b
[10:35:49] <Kirben> owser.o browser.cc
[10:35:52] <Kirben> browser.cc: In method `void ShapeBrowser::browse_shapes()':
[10:35:55] <Kirben> browser.cc:79: implicit declaration of function `int snprintf(...)'
[10:35:56] <Kirben> make: *** [browser.o] Error 1
[10:36:11] <Kirben> could check for mingw32 I guess and only define if its found
[10:37:06] <Kirben> I guess alot of files will need that change added
[10:37:07] <Fingolfin|busy> the same error
[10:37:14] <Fingolfin|busy> err..
[10:37:16] <Fingolfin|busy> hrm
[10:37:17] <Fingolfin|busy> bad
[10:37:26] <Fingolfin|busy> is this something for autoconf maybe?
[10:37:55] <Nadir> add it to alpha_kludges.h (which is an awful kludge...)
[10:38:05] <Fingolfin|busy> we really need a global prefix file, which is enforced by all makefiles/projects (i.e. they auto-include this prefix file into every compiled file)
[10:38:14] <Fingolfin|busy> so we want to have a file exult_prefix.h
[10:38:23] <Fingolfin|busy> which would contain alpha_kludges.h
[10:38:27] <Fingolfin|busy> and mingw_kludges.h ;)
[10:38:42] <Kirben> btw does anyone know of better mingw version (more recent) ?
[10:38:42] <Fingolfin|busy> and also the "mac_prefix.h" file
[10:38:46] <Nadir> autoconf is not used under Windows, but it would be good if it were
[10:39:02] <Nadir> Kirben: nope
[10:39:14] <Kirben> cygwin has autoconf now but not sure if it would work with mingw32
[10:41:48] <Kirben> There was actually talk on cygwin mailing list of making builds use mingw by default soon, would that maybe allow an auto config possible with exult ?
[10:45:31] <Nadir> You can run configure scripts under Windows already (under bash). You need to set some environment variables (CONFIG_SHELL), but I managed to configure a few things last time I was in CygWin.
[10:45:44] <Nadir> Of course we would then need to add Win32 awareness to Windows
[10:45:52] <Nadir> s/windows/configure/
[10:46:41] <Kirben> cygwin includes both autoconf and automake now
[10:48:48] <Nadir> MAME finished. Compiling Exult now
[10:50:00] <Kirben> are exact commands needed to autoconf/make use on linux in docs somewhere ?
[10:50:41] <Nadir> Docs for autoconf/automake are available as texinfo files. Under Linux I do "info -f autoconf"
[10:51:33] <Nadir> In CVS we have a file "autogen.sh" which recreates the entire configure/libtool/automake stuff
[10:54:05] <Kirben> > autoheader
[10:54:06] <Kirben> > aclocal
[10:54:06] <Kirben> > autoconf
[10:54:06] <Kirben> > autoheader
[10:54:06] <Kirben> > automake -a
[10:54:11] <Kirben> is that it ?
[10:54:25] <Nadir> yep
[10:54:36] <Nadir> See if that works for you
[10:55:44] <Kirben> only one warning:
[10:55:44] <Kirben> configure.in: 119: required file `./ltconfig' not found
[10:55:50] <Kirben> trying configure now
[10:55:53] <Nadir> stop
[10:56:02] <Nadir> You don't have libtool
[10:56:49] <Kirben> hmm I guess I need to find mingw version, cygwin does include it
[11:05:09] <Nadir> Kirben: ltconfig is just a set of scripts.
[11:05:43] <Kirben> but its require libtool to run ?
[11:06:14] <Kirben> Searching for libtools for minggw32 now, I wish mingw32 was packaged as well as cygwin
[11:06:58] <Nadir> sorry, I'll rephrase that: libtool (of which ltconfig is a part) is just a set of shell scripts. Maybe you can just use the CygWin ones
[11:07:33] <Nadir> max: exult compiled ok on Linux.
[11:07:37] <Fingolfin|busy> good
[11:07:54] <Kirben> how though ? cygwin is still in path after mingw32 so it should find it
[11:12:53] <Nadir> Copy ltconfig to the exult directory, and try again
[11:14:21] <Nadir> Testing SI.
[11:21:07] <Nadir> SI rocks.
[11:25:34] <Nadir> where is shamino ?
[11:29:06] <Kirben> missing
[11:31:57] <Nadir> After the battle between Thoxa and whatshisname, aren't I supposed to meet Shamino ?
[11:32:33] <Kirben> yes
[11:35:09] <Nadir> checked Exultbot's logs. Shamino is at (0,0) according to Colourless...
[11:35:21] <Fingolfin|busy> ?log
[11:35:21] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[11:36:07] <Nadir> logs for yesterday
[11:37:00] <Fingolfin|busy> sure
[11:37:02] <Fingolfin|busy> hm..
[11:37:10] <Fingolfin|busy> the problems they talk about with SDL events
[11:37:24] <Nadir> got them with Mac as well ?
[11:37:30] <Fingolfin|busy> nope
[11:37:51] <Fingolfin|busy> but IIRC, this might (or might not <g>) be related to SDL_pollevents..
[11:38:04] <Fingolfin|busy> I recall that people always ask something similiar on #SDL ;)
[11:38:15] <Fingolfin|busy> I guess I should have listened to my mother
[11:38:27] <Nadir> what did she say ?
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[11:40:32] <Fingolfin|busy> I have no idea; I did not listen!
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[11:43:11] <Nadir> :-)
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[11:45:00] <FIngolfin> wb
[11:45:06] <Kirben> re
[11:46:54] <Kirben> I will stick with the static makefile for now, can't get sdl to compile with DX under mingw32
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[11:50:16] <Colourless> hi all
[11:50:53] <Nadir> hi
[11:51:28] <Nadir> C'less: can't find Shamino in SI. You say he's at 0,0 but I can't find him...
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[11:54:11] <Nadir> MANY people here today !
[11:54:27] <Colourless> just a few
[11:54:39] <FIngolfin> hi Colourless
[11:54:46] <ariannerpg> Isn't here the free cake?
[11:54:47] <ariannerpg> :)
[11:54:49] <FIngolfin> better than usual anyway ;)
[11:54:52] <FIngolfin> hi arianne ;)
[11:54:55] * FIngolfin is a bit laggy
[11:55:05] <FIngolfin> anyone want pizza? ;)
[11:55:16] <Nadir> pizza with what ?
[11:55:26] <Kirben> hmm Avatar isn't getting stopped before monk
[11:55:34] <Nadir> Anyone played Wing Commander: Prophecy ?
[11:56:00] <Kirben> in original SI never get beyond rock pass
[11:56:05] <Kirben> no
[11:57:01] <Colourless> Kirben: I think Jeff did it,
[11:57:18] <Nadir> I've found it for 15 Euros in a shop, and I want to know if it's any good. I've played WC 1-3.
[11:57:32] <ariannerpg> He :)
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[11:58:44] <Colourless> Nadir: After the fight use the map cheat and teleport beyond the upper left corner of the map. you should teleport to a screen with a corner of land surrounded with ocean. in the upper left corner you should see shamino's legs
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[11:59:54] <ariannerpg> I should also get used to talk in Euros, but Euro is very diferent to Peseta, that is our national currency.
[12:00:18] <Nadir> I live in Italy, and I just divide by 2000.
[12:00:28] <FIngolfin> well, Euro<-> DM is just 1<->2 conversion, so it is simple
[12:00:37] <Nadir> Even though it's 1936,24 or something like that
[12:01:09] <ariannerpg> 168.6... pesetas
[12:01:25] <ariannerpg> And you bet at last it will just be 170 pesetas
[12:02:40] <Nadir> How's devel on Arianne going ?
[12:05:16] <ariannerpg> Well, but we are stopped because of serious discussion about how core base code should be...
[12:05:27] <ariannerpg> Object class, Net class, Message classes...
[12:05:43] <ariannerpg> But I think that it is going very good.
[12:06:00] <Nadir> ah, you mean design. We skipped that step entirely with Exult :-)
[12:06:16] <Colourless> i think it shows :)
[12:06:48] <ariannerpg> Yes, Design. It isn't a good idea to skip it. You get faster development but it evaporates as soon as new people with new ideas join
[12:07:24] <ariannerpg> Anyway your problem is more focus, you want a runner of Ultima, so almost all the decision are based on file structs or common sense
[12:07:55] <ariannerpg> But on arianne most of us are facing with an unknown problem ( and for most of us it is our first project )
[12:08:14] <Colourless> saying 'common sense' makes me laugh as much of the files don't seem to make much logicial sense
[12:09:08] <ariannerpg> Yes, that happen on Arianne, you do something, and then appear a new people that talk about a new way
[12:09:09] <FIngolfin> LOL
[12:09:20] <ariannerpg> of doing it, and as it has more sense, we change
[12:09:24] <FIngolfin> the main difference: we cope with something already existing. Arianne is new
[12:09:33] <ariannerpg> We have started code from scratch 3 times
[12:09:46] <ariannerpg> But I enjoy really.
[12:09:54] <Nadir> ariannerpg: what do you think of WorldForge ?
[12:10:03] <ariannerpg> It is a great experience to see how we are building something new
[12:10:41] <ariannerpg> WF is a very ambitious project, more that arianne even, but I think they are too many people and a simple decision delays the project for months
[12:11:11] <Nadir> I've played their Acorn betas and it is very impressive.
[12:11:15] <ariannerpg> They are focusing on modularity instead of features. I sincery don't see a good inmediate future on WF
[12:11:38] <ariannerpg> I have never tried it, as I need Linux and the server
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[12:14:25] <Colourless> is WF being made as a game and an engine or just an engine?
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[12:15:25] <arianne> Sorry, I was disconnected
[12:15:40] <Nadir> WF aims to be the engine, but they are implementing many games on top of that. Acorn is the first one.
[12:16:03] <arianne> Yes, I know it
[12:16:33] <arianne> I will give it a try as soon as I get a good Internet connection
[12:16:44] <arianne> Artwork of WF is great.
[12:16:46] <Nadir> arianne: I was replying to Colourless
[12:17:32] <Nadir> Colourless: we could ask Pegasus (she does all the artwork for WorldForge) to design the bits we need for paperdolls...
[12:17:46] <arianne> Nadir: Ooops
[12:17:52] <arianne> BTW what are paperdolls?
[12:18:27] <Colourless> paperdolls are to pictures of yout character that you equipd items too.
[12:18:50] <Colourless> ideally a paperdoll should change to reflect the changes made
[12:19:22] <Nadir> It's basically a glorified inventory viewer
[12:19:22] <arianne> Yes, I understand now, something similar to a sprite, isn't it?
[12:19:37] <Colourless> Nadir: That may be an idea. I would prefer to be doing other things than messing around art.
[12:20:13] <FIngolfin> arianne: well yes and no ;)
[12:20:38] <FIngolfin> arianne: if your charachter is not wearing anything, and you open the inventory, you see a picture of the almost naked charachter...
[12:21:00] <FIngolfin> arianne: if you equip, say, boots, you do not see just the simple boots picture; instead, you will see the charachter actually wear the boots
[12:21:24] <FIngolfin> but not the charachter picture that "walks" around, only the charachter picture in the inventory screen
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[12:21:45] <Nadir> Someone point the man to a screenshot please before we go insane :-)
[12:23:34] <Nadir> Actually we need a screenshot for our web page.
[12:23:43] <Fingolfin> yes
[12:24:25] <Colourless> here's one i made earlier :)
[12:24:26] <Colourless> http://www.geocities.com/cless_j/exult000.gif
[12:26:06] <arianne> The characters at left and right are paperdolls?
[12:26:13] <Fingolfin> bbl
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[12:26:25] <Colourless> yes
[12:26:40] <arianne> It looks good!
[12:27:00] <Nadir> The four "windows" refer to the four guys in the middle
[12:27:50] <Nadir> Colourless, have you got a list of the missing shapes ?
[12:28:15] <Colourless> yes, i noted all the missing ones
[12:28:29] <arianne> Bye to all.
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[12:28:35] <Colourless> cya
[12:29:18] <Nadir> Well, I could download WorldForge's Media package and see if there is stuff in there that we can use already (it is under the OpenContent license, so there should be no probs)
[12:29:35] <Colourless> the problem js
[12:29:44] <Colourless> opps. lets try that again
[12:30:29] <Colourless> the problem is the shapes ideally need to match the bodies
[12:31:00] <Nadir> Also we have a character in BG which is of a different shape to the rest. Spark
[12:31:37] <Colourless> yes spark... i was just going to use the male body.
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[12:33:17] <Colourless> just looking at the WF project page, they have as many admins as we have developers :)
[12:57:02] <Nadir> We need to remember our anniversary. Since it would be difficult to remember the date Jeff started Exult, we can use the date he moved to Sourceforge
[12:59:53] <Colourless> Exult is pretty old
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[13:03:19] <wjp> hi
[13:03:23] <Colourless> hi
[13:03:56] <Nadir> 2/8/2000 was the date of the upload to Sourceforge
[13:04:42] <wjp> two weeks next thursday
[13:05:42] <Colourless> i remember Exult being talked about before around the time of the UIX was released. it was very basic back then since there was no usecode interpreter
[13:06:11] <wjp> yes, I ported it to Win32 back then. Before SDL :-)
[13:06:34] <Nadir> I think I was the first external contributor
[13:07:21] <wjp> what contribution are you referring to?
[13:07:39] <Nadir> Look at NEWS. It was a reader for text.flx
[13:07:57] <Nadir> Jeff was hardcoding the shapes' names...
[13:08:05] <wjp> oh right... I remember that
[13:08:24] <wjp> I was working on Exult before then :-)
[13:08:46] <Nadir> Can you prove it :-)
[13:08:57] <Colourless> hehe
[13:09:03] <wjp> lol
[13:10:39] <Nadir> If we look at Jeff's entries in NEWS, Exult is 2 years 4 months old
[13:11:22] <Colourless> much older than i thought
[13:12:20] <Nadir> There was a contender: Kult.
[13:13:07] <Nadir> It had garbage collection for shapes
[13:13:43] <Colourless> did Kult have usecode?
[13:14:04] <Nadir> Yes.
[13:14:10] <Nadir> Very basic
[13:14:18] <wjp> there's also another U7 conversion project somewhere
[13:14:32] <wjp> not sure what the exact title was, but I think Exult links to it on the links page
[13:15:12] <Colourless> it's called "The U7 Conversion Project"
[13:15:24] <wjp> hehe :-)
[13:15:37] <wjp> yes, it is :-)
[13:16:54] <Nadir> U7 Conversion Project died. Closed source never gets you anywhere :-)
[13:17:08] <wjp> right :-)
[13:17:27] <wjp> talking about closed source, do you know what AlterU9's status is?
[13:17:40] <Nadir> nope
[13:17:56] <wjp> host lookup seems to fail
[13:18:01] <wjp> did they move their page?
[13:18:47] <Nadir> dunno
[13:19:07] <Colourless> you know, i don't know what AlterU9 is :)
[13:19:20] <wjp> an alternate U9, basically :-)
[13:19:22] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[13:19:30] <Colourless> i see
[13:19:34] <wjp> hi Max
[13:19:52] <Fingolfin> hiya
[13:19:54] <Fingolfin> ah, wjp is there, too ;)
[13:19:56] <Fingolfin> ?log
[13:19:56] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[13:20:06] <Fingolfin> ?logs
[13:20:06] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[13:20:06] <Colourless> hi
[13:20:13] <Nadir> We can always create an alternate U9 with Exult. That's going to be easy ... ;)
[13:20:22] <wjp> Fingolfin: yes, you're supposed to keep the magic shield
[13:20:25] <Fingolfin> wjp: can you add an option to exultbot so we can get different colors for our nicks? or maybe small symbols?
[13:20:30] <Fingolfin> wjp: ah good
[13:20:33] <wjp> Fingolfin: yes, I can
[13:20:37] <Fingolfin> Nadir: yeah! ;)
[13:20:50] <Nadir> And of course: http://sourceforge.net/projects/u7o
[13:20:57] <Colourless> easy, perhaps, quick, NO!
[13:21:02] <wjp> dev. team already gets different colours, btw
[13:21:31] <Nadir> Easy? We have to write a story, create a world, script the NPCs...
[13:21:42] <wjp> Nadir: we can steal AlterU9's story :-)
[13:21:58] <wjp> oh, no, we can't... it's closed source... :-(
[13:22:00] <Nadir> Is it any good ?
[13:22:38] <Fingolfin> wjp: sure, but all have the same color... I want to be able to spot my name so I can see when I left (i.e. read the text I missed)
[13:23:10] <wjp> Fingolfin: it wouldn't be hard to add. In fact, support's already in, but I just gave everyone the same colour :-)
[13:23:24] <Fingolfin> wjp: sure ;)
[13:23:56] <wjp> what colour do you want?
[13:24:00] <Nadir> I want..... PINK !
[13:24:11] <Colourless> to be ironic, every colour :)
[13:24:25] <wjp> Colourless: that would be white? ;-)
[13:24:33] <Nadir> "I am now Saruman of many colours"
[13:24:41] <Colourless> doh.
[13:24:50] * Colourless slaps himself with a physics textbook
[13:25:19] <Nadir> Oh dear, Ultima 7 Online is in Pascal (Delphi)
[13:25:34] <wjp> Delphi isn't that bad
[13:25:50] <wjp> a little platform-dependant, but not bad :-)
[13:25:54] <Nadir> Yes, but not very portable
[13:26:00] <Nadir> You beat me to it !
[13:26:03] <wjp> ;-)
[13:26:33] <Nadir> brb
[13:26:48] <wjp> ok, so Nadir gets pink, Colourless gets white
[13:27:19] <wjp> Fingolfin?
[13:28:17] <Fingolfin> wjp: err... normally, I am "The Black Fingolfin", but that would be a bit lame here... so... gimme a red orange if possible
[13:28:23] <wjp> HTML code?
[13:28:40] <Fingolfin> moment
[13:28:47] <Colourless> i'm thinking it would be rather hard to see white :)
[13:28:57] <wjp> really? :-)
[13:29:28] <Fingolfin> mICInstance
[13:29:32] <Fingolfin> Colourless: na
[13:29:39] <Fingolfin> Colourless: we can use a black back..
[13:29:44] <Fingolfin> of course then you can't read the log
[13:29:48] <Fingolfin> but who cares? ;)
[13:29:59] <Colourless> hehe. lets do it!
[13:30:34] <wjp> nah :-)
[13:30:53] <Colourless> oh. :-(
[13:30:57] * Colourless cries
[13:31:12] <wjp> I could setup a second log page with a black background?
[13:32:58] <Colourless> how about making my name grey
[13:33:23] <wjp> how grey do you want it?
[13:33:24] <Fingolfin> well
[13:33:36] <Fingolfin> how about setting colourless name with each letter in a different color? ;)
[13:33:50] <wjp> HTML colour code if possible :-) (I don't have any colour on these virtual consoles)
[13:33:50] <Fingolfin> or put his tex white-on-black using a small table ;)
[13:33:56] <Colourless> hehe. i actually do that sometimes
[13:34:17] <wjp> or create a white-on-black .png file
[13:34:41] <Nadir> Fingolfin: what does mICInstance mean ? Did you cut&paste a colour perchance ?
[13:35:15] <wjp> MacOS drag'n'drop?
[13:36:27] * wjp has to go in 5 minutes
[13:36:57] <wjp> last chance to submit colour codes :-)
[13:37:17] <Colourless> make my name #B0B0B0
[13:37:35] <Nadir> Nadir: #ef7ad0
[13:38:54] <wjp> ok, got these two
[13:39:10] <wjp> exultbot will start using them when I restart it
[13:40:17] <Colourless> ok
[13:41:14] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[13:41:14] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult, the opensource Ultima 7 and Ultima 7 Part II engine. Now with paperdolls :-)
[13:41:14] --- Topic for #exult set by Colourless at Fri Jan 19 06:30:01 2001
[13:41:24] <wjp> ok, try it :-)
[13:41:24] <Colourless> Lets see this change
[13:41:36] <wjp> I won't be able to see the colours until I get home :-(
[13:42:07] <Colourless> no difference. im' still purple!
[13:42:09] * wjp wonders if he saved
[13:43:02] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[13:43:02] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult, the opensource Ultima 7 and Ultima 7 Part II engine. Now with paperdolls :-)
[13:43:02] --- Topic for #exult set by Colourless at Fri Jan 19 06:30:01 2001
[13:43:10] <Colourless> how about now
[13:43:22] <Colourless> whoa :)
[13:43:22] <Fingolfin> I accidentaly pasted it I guess ;)
[13:43:27] <Nadir> Colour me PINK !
[13:43:40] <Fingolfin> anyway, I am giving some teaching now ;)
[13:43:44] --- Fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|teaching
[13:43:52] <wjp> I have to go
[13:43:58] <Fingolfin|teaching> my color!
[13:44:01] <Fingolfin|teaching> I want my color!
[13:44:14] <wjp> if you give me a html-colour code :-)
[13:46:30] <wjp> 10... 9... 8... :-)
[13:46:38] <Colourless> he said orange red so i'd guess something like #ff3f00
[13:47:30] <wjp> I'll do it when I get home :-)
[13:47:57] <wjp> Fingolfin: just say the colour in here, I'll get it from the logs
[13:48:02] <wjp> see you later
[13:48:06] <-- wjp has left IRC (Leaving)
[13:52:40] --> TonyHoyt has joined #Exult
[13:52:51] <TonyHoyt> Hello people. Wow, ton of people.
[13:53:00] <TonyHoyt> ?log
[13:53:00] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[13:53:06] <Colourless> hi
[13:53:15] <TonyHoyt> Hi Colourless. \
[13:53:40] <TonyHoyt> How goes the day?
[13:53:51] <Colourless> where I am it's fairly hot.
[13:56:03] <Nadir> don't tell us !
[13:56:16] <Nadir> My feet are freezing...
[13:56:20] <Colourless> and why not
[13:57:01] <Nadir> Because we hate you :-)
[13:57:21] <Colourless> don't hate me. i didn't make you cold
[13:57:44] <Nadir> I've updated the screenshots on http://exult.sourceforge.net/screenshots.shtml
[13:57:45] <Nadir> with your paperdoll stuff and a gratuitous SI shot
[13:58:03] <Colourless> i noticed :)
[13:59:12] <Colourless> the news should say there is new shots
[14:00:14] <Nadir> We should also have pre-built GIMP plugins for Linux and Win32 on there
[14:01:00] <TonyHoyt> Where I am it's fairly cold. I shoveled snow yesterday!
[14:01:18] <Colourless> is that a counter on the bottom of the Exult homepage. if so it's almost upto 20000 hits
[14:01:25] <Colourless> snow is a unknown to me
[14:02:47] <Nadir> Ryan: got GIMP on win32 ?
[14:03:27] <Colourless> not yet :)
[14:04:03] <Nadir> I'll package a Linux version, and you can do it in your own time :-)
[14:04:25] <Colourless> yeah, ok
[14:09:32] <TonyHoyt> What GIMP Plugins are you guys talking about?
[14:09:55] <Colourless> Plugins to read and write U7 shp files
[14:10:40] <TonyHoyt> Ahh Okay. Anyone working more on the map editing functionality of Exult?
[14:12:40] <Colourless> I have no idea.
[14:13:38] <Nadir> TonyHoyt: no.
[14:14:37] <TonyHoyt> Oh well. Not a big deal. The SI paperdolls in BG is cool. but what about the companions that don't have a SI paperdoll?
[14:15:54] <Colourless> they need art to be made. at the moment they use art from si companions
[14:18:19] <TonyHoyt> *nods*
[14:22:02] <Nadir> Colourless: we also need to add the list of missing shapes to the web page.
[14:23:09] <Colourless> Nadir: I'll get one ready
[14:23:30] <Colourless> Do i have ftp access to the webserver?
[14:23:56] <Nadir> You need to use scp
[14:24:52] <Colourless> umm, how do i do that?
[14:25:55] <Nadir> wait a sec
[14:26:21] <Nadir> Do you have scp ?
[14:26:30] <Nadir> part of ssh package
[14:27:01] <Colourless> yes i do
[14:27:30] <Nadir> scp localfile user@hot:/remotefile
[14:27:36] <Nadir> s/hot/host/
[14:28:27] <Nadir> e.g. scp abc.html colourles@shell.sourceforge.net:/home/groups/exult/htdocs/abc.html
[14:29:09] <Colourless> anyway to get a directory listing?
[14:29:20] <Nadir> What I do is login with ssh
[14:29:32] <Nadir> ssh -l colourles shell.sourceforge.net
[14:29:50] <Nadir> it is slow...
[14:30:33] <Colourless> ok thanks
[14:30:38] <Nadir> If you have more than one file, it is better to zip it up, scp it over to sourceforge.net, login with ssh and unpack it
[14:31:50] <Colourless> i'm guessing doing 'ls' on the users dir was a bad idea
[14:32:33] <Nadir> Indeed :-)
[14:33:35] <Nadir> registered sourceforge users: 110019
[14:33:52] <Colourless> :)
[14:34:05] <Colourless> didn't take to long to complete
[14:37:01] <Nadir> tell me when you're done
[14:37:18] <Colourless> done what?
[14:37:48] <Nadir> uploading your shape list
[14:38:07] <Colourless> ok. it probably wont be today
[14:38:38] <Nadir> ah, ok
[15:07:12] <Nadir> gotta go.
[15:07:15] <Nadir> Bye
[15:07:15] <-- Nadir has left IRC ([x]chat)
[15:25:07] --> wjp has joined #exult
[15:25:19] <wjp> hi again
[15:25:26] <Colourless> hi
[15:25:47] * wjp is patching his U2 patch after 1 1/2 years
[15:26:05] <Colourless> ?
[15:26:51] <wjp> about 2 years ago, I wrote an Ultima 2 patch (assembly) to correct the speed and add save and quit functions
[15:27:09] <wjp> somebody just emailed me that it contains a bug :-(
[15:27:44] <Colourless> you wrote that?
[15:27:50] <TonyHoyt> Hi Wjp
[15:27:54] <wjp> hi Tony
[15:28:27] <wjp> Colourless: depends on what you're referring to :-)
[15:28:32] <TonyHoyt> Ultima 2 Patch ya say? Neat! now if someone could only rewrite that for *nix and windows. *laughs* Na. Not really.
[15:28:49] <wjp> I think someone already rewrote it a while back
[15:28:51] <Colourless> wjp: I meant the patch.
[15:29:44] <wjp> Colourless: which patch? :-) (There were several, but mine was the best ;-) )
[15:29:51] <TonyHoyt> Someone rewote u2? I would be impressed. The U1 Rewrite looks daaam good. You guys seen that? *Drools* Looks better then U9. Then again, they seem to be aiming in that direction.
[15:30:15] <Colourless> wjp: ah i see.
[15:30:21] <wjp> Tony: IIRC, that U2 had no new fancy graphics, just a basic rewrite
[15:31:04] <Colourless> i wouldn't say the U1 Rewrite really looks better than U9 does
[15:31:08] <TonyHoyt> I assumed as much, wjp. Still impressive to rewrite a game and keep it working as the original.
[15:31:30] <wjp> U2 wasn't really that complex :-)
[15:33:08] <Colourless> no games from that time really were
[15:33:10] <TonyHoyt> Colour: No? Well it is hard to say, the only demo looks only mildly impressive. The screen shots of the external of a tavern look really nice, but the inside of the tavern is more of what I'm interested in seeing.
[15:34:40] --- wjp is now known as wjp|crashy
[15:34:51] <wjp|crashy> (assembly hacking can do weird things :-) )
[15:35:27] <TonyHoyt> *laughs*
[15:35:52] <TonyHoyt> Too bad you can't run it through a dos emu that can stableize all the possable 'crashy' events you might run into.
[15:35:57] <Colourless> TH: IMO they look fairly similar. The demo was also was also quite a bit slower than U9 for me. :)
[15:38:20] <TonyHoyt> Did you get the latest demo which has a much faster loading time? It's hard to say for me on speed since u9 had some serious slow down points but it was unfair for me to compare the two when the only thing the u1 demo had was a empty town and simple dungeon. In the future we'll see what new and interesting things spring up for us to adventure and truely compare the two. For one, I wonder if they will do 'zones' for things like towns and such.
[15:39:58] <Colourless> yeah, I used the latest version. I haven't used any of the earlier ones.
[15:40:12] <TonyHoyt> Plus I will admit I do like U9, except for some elements of the plot.
[15:40:30] <Colourless> It is unfair to compare U1 to U9 as neither are completed. hehe.
[15:40:46] <wjp|crashy> lol
[15:40:50] <TonyHoyt> Earlier, there was a seriously long load time, like in the minutes. (3-4) but they speed that up to almost seconds (3-4) Lord knows how but they did.
[15:41:12] <TonyHoyt> *laughs* We won't talk about the completion or lack there of, of U9.
[15:41:17] <wjp|crashy> I think the question should be how they managed the 3-4 minutes loading time in the first place ;-)
[15:43:47] <Colourless> i didn't dislike U9 too much as i still bought the Australian Dragon Edition after playing and completing the game.
[15:43:49] <TonyHoyt> *laughs* That's what I wanted to know! I think they must have been loading the data the 'hard' way or the text book method and finaly got around to cleaning it up to the 'right' way. And so the maps look rather nice. Although I wish we could see a more full fledge town to explore and see for ourselves. *Sighs* Now I'm getting sentemental over u9.
[15:44:33] <TonyHoyt> I got the Dragon Edition as well, plus shelled out for the Extra Music CD (the one with a whole 2 new songs from the one in the Dragon Edition)
[15:44:48] <wjp|crashy> yeah, I liked U9 too. (mostly)
[15:45:15] <Colourless> it could have been so much more. I say the same about u8 as well/
[15:45:26] <wjp|crashy> yup :-(
[15:46:04] <wjp|crashy> well, maybe AlterU9 will be better
[15:46:18] <TonyHoyt> I can't say I though that u8 could have been so much more. It was neat (The plot was at least neat now that I think about it) but u9 was definantly the one that could have done greater things.
[15:46:57] <TonyHoyt> AlterU9 Scares me. Your project is cool, the U1 projet is really a new game, but ALterU9 scares me. It's like Fan Fiction. Just shouldn't be done.
[15:47:05] <wjp|crashy> U8 was the first ultima I played. I really liked the plot, although it wasn't as 'deep' as U7's
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[15:49:35] <TonyHoyt> *ponders* I actually didn't think u7 was that great. in any respect beyond interface and graphics.
[15:50:23] <-- Colourless has left IRC (Ping timeout for Colourless[ppp462.adelaide.on.net.au])
[15:51:20] <Cless> IMO u8 would have been better if the plot and back story was expanded upon.
[15:51:37] <wjp|crashy> \kick TonyHoyt you _don't_ like U7!?! ;-)
[15:51:43] <TonyHoyt> I mean, It's like it tried to be the reverse of Ultima6 with the Fellowship, but it was obvious they where bad.
[15:52:20] --- Cless is now known as Colourless
[15:52:42] <TonyHoyt> The Guardian was never a very good vilian. Specialy when they revealed his true background. I though Blackthorn was a better villian in 9, although it was wrong to change Blackthorn to a villian. From my interpretation he never was one.
[15:53:11] <TonyHoyt> The game really was about just running around finding some stupid characters who you never meet untill the end. When you should have had more intereaction with them.
[15:53:45] <TonyHoyt> And the whole murder plot seemed to be solved by the time you got to Minoc. There wasn't much more ot discover by then.
[15:55:13] <Colourless> i liked SI better than U7
[15:55:19] <wjp|crashy> yes, me too
[15:55:47] <TonyHoyt> *laughs* And that I will agree on. Funny how nobody disagreed with me though.
[15:56:44] <TonyHoyt> Now Ultima 5. now THERE was a game.
[15:57:12] <wjp|crashy> I've only played U5 once... maybe I should play that again :-)
[15:57:40] <Colourless> i've also only player u5 once. Thought it was pretty damn good as well
[15:58:01] <Colourless> player=played
[15:58:14] <TonyHoyt> Awww god, that game is awsome. The u4 updates are really nice too. Although it might be best to just play the game in it's original graphics. Up to the player.
[15:58:15] * wjp|crashy broke combat in U2... somehow
[15:58:30] <TonyHoyt> too bad you don't have an asm debugger.
[15:58:48] * wjp|crashy doesn't need any debuggers ;-)
[15:58:52] <TonyHoyt> And Ultima 6, although graphicaly I didn't like it, plot wise was kick ass.
[15:59:13] <Colourless> U6 was my first
[16:01:31] * wjp|crashy fixed combat again
[16:01:56] <Colourless> did something better than u7 as well. i disliked the fact that u7 only allowed the avatar to casts spells
[16:02:04] <TonyHoyt> You say that now, Monkey boy. Wait till your trying to find what's changeing that magic variable and you wish you had a debugger!
[16:02:04] * TonyHoyt leaves the rest of his KODT refrences at the door.
[16:02:04] <TonyHoyt> btw: Didn't mean to be rude, 'Monkey Boy' is a refrence to a comic based on some table top roleplayers. It's a jokeing phrase.
[16:02:47] <wjp|crashy> :-)
[16:03:11] <TonyHoyt> Well how could you get anyone to cast spells. The real time combat was a pain. You basicly hit 'c' and yelled out "Release the hounds!" and that was it.
[16:03:42] <Colourless> thats another thing u6 did better than u7 :)
[16:04:07] <Colourless> u8's real time combat was a pain.
[16:04:10] <TonyHoyt> Someone's got to implement Turn based combat into Exult. Although it might be rather hard to do. Who knows.
[16:04:23] <TonyHoyt> U9 Turned into a click fest, sadly enough.
[16:05:03] <wjp|crashy> bah... now I need to update my patch program
[16:05:25] --- wjp|crashy is now known as wjp
[16:05:28] <Colourless> there wasn't any reason for u9 to be a click fest. they could have just had your weapon 'fire' continuously when holding the key
[16:05:32] <TonyHoyt> Add a cheat command, wjp. Come on, ya know ya want to.
[16:05:38] <wjp> lol
[16:05:43] <TonyHoyt> *laughs*
[16:06:01] <wjp> it's been a while since I added any cheats to exult... hmmm...
[16:06:16] * wjp thinks it's time for a new one ;-)
[16:06:23] <Colourless> dump items!
[16:06:33] <TonyHoyt> *laughs*
[16:06:57] <TonyHoyt> How about one that dumps the usecode of an egg to a text file with comments.
[16:07:45] <wjp> I still have an NPC editor on my TODO list
[16:08:16] <TonyHoyt> Ya could do that.
[16:08:31] <Colourless> you do. hmmmm. i was thinking of doing one as well.
[16:08:37] <wjp> :-)
[16:08:44] <Colourless> i had kind of started as well. nothing commited though
[16:09:09] <Colourless> note to self: committed has 2 t's
[16:09:35] <wjp> I haven't even started, so I'll let you do it ;-)
[16:10:18] * TonyHoyt surfs SourceForge and finds a game called glTron and goes "Ooooooooo"
[16:10:36] <Colourless> what I've done isn't what i would call a textbook example of object orientated programming. in fact, it's far from it. :)
[16:10:48] <Colourless> in fact it isn't object orientated at all :)
[16:11:19] <wjp> I was thinking about doing a kind of ScrollMenu framework for it, like the Exult/U7 menus have now
[16:11:21] <TonyHoyt> *chuckles* But it is programming. *nods*
[16:13:13] <Colourless> i'm just doing something like the old F2 screen. nothing special
[16:14:51] <Colourless> i wonder what level of modification should be allowed? simple things like stats, maybe shapes, how about usecode functions???
[16:15:41] <wjp> I was thinking mainly of stats, hostile/friendly, in-party
[16:17:51] <Colourless> adding and removing things will be a simple take. i'll at least have everything the originals had.
[16:19:57] <TonyHoyt> What if it was a npc creator/modifier tool. Where you could also open people's backpack and drop items into it. Specifiy what there attack weapon is. Also set up what will be 'spawn' points for monsters. Thinking broad here.
[16:20:54] <wjp> eventually there will have to be a full-fledged NPC editor, although it may be an external GTK one
[16:21:21] <Colourless> Jeff was saying something along those lines.
[16:21:28] <TonyHoyt> *nods* How much do you guys use GTK for Exult? Only for external tools?
[16:22:13] <Colourless> I have no idea. i think only the map editor uses it.
[16:22:29] <wjp> Jeff has created 2 GTK tools. shape browser & palette viewer
[16:22:45] <TonyHoyt> *nods*
[16:24:33] <Colourless> i wonder how much work it would be to get the editor to work under win32.
[16:24:57] <wjp> GTK+ has a win32 port right?
[16:25:11] <Colourless> yes it does
[16:42:26] <Colourless> hmmm... bggame.cc:1277: implicit declaration of function `int snprintf(...)'
[16:42:41] <wjp> stdio.h?
[16:45:05] <Colourless> i'll try
[16:45:07] <TonyHoyt> The log shows someone earlier today talking about that.
[16:45:22] <TonyHoyt> (ie, like around midnight I think)
[16:46:25] <TonyHoyt> something about doing a #define somewhere, but I forget where.
[16:46:26] <Colourless> didn't help. i don't have snprintf in my headers, only _snprintf
[16:46:55] <TonyHoyt> I think you need to #define snprintf _snprintf somewhere. In a universal header file of some sort.
[16:48:11] <Colourless> i think that the changes made by fingolfin were bad.
[16:48:25] <TonyHoyt> using snprintf?
[16:48:45] <Colourless> yes
[16:48:53] <Colourless> because it wont compile
[16:49:36] <TonyHoyt> Strange how it worked for him. I guess snprintf is not ansi c then?
[16:50:42] <wjp> it's not in K&R
[16:51:58] <Colourless> i don't think it's standard.
[16:52:56] <Colourless> ?logs
[16:52:56] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[16:55:43] <Colourless> at least, any headers based on microsoft's don't have it
[16:57:08] <TonyHoyt> Using Visual C++ to compile Exult?
[16:57:37] <Colourless> exult doesn't compile with VC++
[16:58:04] <TonyHoyt> I didn't even know there was Visual C++ support.
[16:58:16] <Colourless> there isn't
[16:58:17] <TonyHoyt> Does msdn list snprintf?
[16:58:47] <TonyHoyt> But Exult compiles with gnu gcc though, right?
[16:58:54] <Colourless> yes
[16:59:14] <Colourless> there are namespace problem when I attempted using VC++
[16:59:35] <TonyHoyt> *nods*
[17:01:27] <Colourless> snprintf isn't in MSDN
[17:03:27] <TonyHoyt> Looks like Microsoft C++ doesn't support it then.
[17:04:37] <Colourless> it has _snprintf though
[17:06:11] <TonyHoyt> Define it then. Or typecast it (can you typecast a function?)
[17:06:29] <Colourless> just doing #define
[17:15:00] <-- exultbot has left IRC (signing off...)
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[17:15:47] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult, the opensource Ultima 7 and Ultima 7 Part II engine. Now with paperdolls :-)
[17:15:47] --- Topic for #exult set by Colourless at Fri Jan 19 06:30:01 2001
[17:15:54] <Colourless> :)
[17:16:15] <wjp> I wonder what happened
[17:17:45] <Colourless> here is a shot of my f2 replication. it's not exactly the same as the original one. also the interlaced effect is just being caused by a 'fast interlaced' scaler that I made.
[17:17:46] <Colourless> http://www.geocities.com/cless_j/exult001.gif
[17:18:53] <wjp> That looks extremely familiar :-)
[17:19:54] <Colourless> :) most of the functions don't work.
[17:21:07] <Colourless> only the toggles, set time and timerate work. inspect NPC currently only shows the name, shape and location of a npc
[17:21:51] <Colourless> the paperdolls toggle only has works in BG
[17:35:17] <wjp> ok, u2patch 1.3 uploaded. (finally :-) )
[17:35:47] <TonyHoyt> *grins* Why upload it as a patch and not the whole exe btw?
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[17:41:25] <wjp> there's some other patches available. I don't want to overwrite them :-)
[17:41:55] <wjp> bbl
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[17:43:21] <TonyHoyt> *nods*
[17:46:36] <TonyHoyt> bbl
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[18:05:50] --- Fingolfin|teaching is now known as Fingolfin
[18:05:53] * Fingolfin yawns
[18:05:54] <Fingolfin> oh my
[18:06:24] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[18:07:09] <wjp> rebooting to linux... brb
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[18:13:37] <Fingolfin> wb
[18:13:43] <Fingolfin> hey, my color is still not set in the logs ;)
[18:14:06] <Fingolfin> I give you the html code, second please
[18:14:14] <wjp> did you give a colour code?
[18:14:30] <Fingolfin> #ff6600
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[18:16:21] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult, the opensource Ultima 7 and Ultima 7 Part II engine. Now with paperdolls :-)
[18:16:21] --- Topic for #exult set by Colourless at Fri Jan 19 06:30:01 2001
[18:16:39] <wjp> ok, done. (I think)
[18:21:07] <Fingolfin> test
[18:22:27] <Fingolfin> works
[18:23:22] <wjp> today's log page is getting too big :-)
[18:26:40] <wjp> 26.7 ping to exultbot... hmmm
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[18:44:13] <Fingolfin> wb
[18:44:17] <wjp> thx
[18:44:31] <wjp> 70% packet loss again... :-(
[18:45:29] <Fingolfin> eek
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[19:36:32] --- Fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|food
[19:39:54] <chimera|work> yes food sounds good =]
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[20:22:43] <TonyHoyt> Hello
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[20:28:52] <TonyHoyt> HI wjp.
[20:28:57] <wjp> hi Tony
[20:29:15] <wjp> I'll probably time-out again soon, btw. My ISP is having (yet another) bad day.
[20:30:08] <TonyHoyt> Yech, not good.
[20:30:20] <TonyHoyt> Don't mind me, i'm just lurking anyway.
[20:30:40] <wjp> I'm sort of doing my algebra homework, so I'm not really here too :-)
[20:31:03] <wjp> Fingolfin|food: interesting colour :-)
[20:31:15] <wjp> The logs are really getting colourful now :-)
[20:32:29] <TonyHoyt> I noticed as well.
[20:32:36] <TonyHoyt> A splash of color here and there...
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[20:47:47] <Fingolfin> b
[20:47:51] <TonyHoyt> Hi Fing.
[20:47:55] <Fingolfin> hi tony
[20:48:13] <Fingolfin> wjp: hey, I will participate in the next ACM contest ,)
[20:48:22] <Fingolfin> that is, we have a team here...
[20:48:27] <TonyHoyt> What ACM contest?
[20:48:38] <Fingolfin> well, in fact, we are two now ;) and still need a third member
[20:49:29] <wjp> plenty of time left to find another member :-)
[20:50:12] <Fingolfin> yeah, but we will do a local university contest this friday
[20:50:17] <Fingolfin> with similiar rules
[20:50:27] <Fingolfin> so we can train, and get reputation ;)
[20:51:39] <TonyHoyt> What is this contest?
[20:51:46] <Fingolfin> programming contest
[20:51:54] <Fingolfin> any suggestions for a team name?
[20:51:54] <TonyHoyt> Oh Cool.
[20:52:22] <TonyHoyt> Get a funny word and run it through a word converter to come up with a name.
[20:57:07] <Fingolfin> but
[20:57:11] <Fingolfin> how do I get a funny word? ;)
[20:57:22] <TonyHoyt> Good question.
[20:58:22] <TonyHoyt> Sometimes makeing refrences to movies popular to geeks help. Like Calling yourself the "Knights that say Null"
[20:58:46] <Fingolfin> I can only use 10 letters ;)
[20:58:57] <TonyHoyt> or "kline" "Knights Lost In Negitive Energy"
[20:59:21] <TonyHoyt> "K-Null" Knights that say Null"
[21:00:15] <TonyHoyt> Try to find the password used in Wargames and say your desendents of that. *Shrugs* Just a thought.
[21:00:28] <TonyHoyt> btw: The password was the name of a person.
[21:15:08] <Fingolfin> don't know wargames at all?!? or do you mean the movie?
[21:15:18] <Fingolfin> "Do you want to play a game of thermo nuclear war?" ;)
[21:15:29] <Fingolfin> falkien or falklein IIRC
[21:16:23] <TonyHoyt> Ya, Wargames the movie.
[21:17:04] <TonyHoyt> I forgot the password that the main character had to hunt for. It was the name of something important, like a daughter or something.
[21:17:38] <wjp> when will people in movies learn to use random passwords... :-)
[21:17:51] * TonyHoyt laughs
[21:18:02] <TonyHoyt> When will people in real life learn to use random passwords :P
[21:18:41] <wjp> good question :-)
[21:19:46] <Fingolfin> is this good enough? Grufel4rt
[21:26:13] <wjp> Grufel4rt? What's that? Btw, how about "MsBv2mMOL" (straight from a random passwd generator :-) )
[21:38:57] <Fingolfin> actually
[21:39:10] <Fingolfin> I prefer passwords which are random and I still can remember them easily
[21:39:40] <Fingolfin> I can remember "Grufel4rt", I also could learn "MsBv2mMOL" but it is much more complicated, error prone, and harder to type
[21:39:50] <Fingolfin> passwords you have to note down somewhere are useless
[21:39:50] <TonyHoyt> later guys. Night
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[21:39:54] <Fingolfin> cya
[21:39:58] <Fingolfin> he's too fase ;)
[21:40:45] <Fingolfin> fast even ;)
[21:41:09] <wjp> I generate all my passwords randomly. It just takes entering them 4 or 5 times to remember them.
[21:43:07] <Fingolfin> well, then you are better than me. I tend to forget too complicated password if I only use them rarely, and sometimes not at all for a month
[21:44:04] <wjp> ok, it doesn't really hold for password you rarely use :-)
[21:44:46] <wjp> anyway, back to my algebra homework :-(
[21:45:39] <Fingolfin> have fun ;)
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[22:36:12] <chimera|work> algebra!!
[22:36:18] <chimera|work> the heck?
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