#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 22 Jan 2005 (GMT)

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[02:06:27] <sbx> wb
[02:06:38] <sbx> i mean hi
[02:06:40] <curiousis> heya.
[02:06:43] <curiousis> wb works for me
[02:06:49] <sbx> heh ok
[02:07:12] <curiousis> I was just wondering if anybody who is around knows about the barge editor in Exult Studio...
[02:09:04] <curiousis> I'm trying to figure out how it works with limited success...
[02:11:29] <sbx> No way
[02:11:33] <sbx> I didn't even know there was one.
[02:12:00] <curiousis> Nor did I until I loaded up Exult Studio. I think its in a very early and not very useful stage.
[02:12:10] <curiousis> But I could be very wrong on that
[02:14:51] <servus> ExultStudio never works for me
[02:18:32] <sbx> You just need the snapshots.
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[02:26:31] <curiousis> I also don't seem to be able to find the map using the Ctrl-Alt-T cheat. That confuses me.
[02:31:56] <curiousis> Yeah, uhm.. is the map picture not included with the newest Exult snaphot or something?
[02:37:01] <sbx> ?
[02:37:07] <sbx> Ctrl-Alt-T? Forgot about that one.
[02:37:18] <sbx> F3 is teleport.
[02:39:31] <curiousis> ah-ha! So F3 does the same the Ctrl-Alt-T use to, but now Ctrl-Alt-T is broken
[02:41:11] <curiousis> Ack, I type too fast. I always use the wrong words...
[02:41:50] <curiousis> SBX: Thanks for your help. Now I'm off.
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[02:45:50] <sbx> np
[02:47:42] <servus> I was right
[02:47:46] <servus> The GEForce 6800 really is junk.
[02:47:50] <servus> It's HALF the power of the 6800 ultra.
[02:50:58] <sbx> no kidding
[02:51:35] <servus> http://techreport.com/reviews/2004q3/geforce6800-comparo/index.x?pg=1
[02:52:52] <servus> I don't think it's right of NVidia to use deceptive naming schemes for their products, like they do.
[02:56:56] <sbx> In what way?
[03:05:32] <servus> The GEForce4 MX was actually a GEForce2.
[03:06:00] <servus> The GEForce6800 is actually a GEForce4 Ti4800 with more OpenGL and Direct3D fragment shader ability.
[03:06:06] <sbx> No difference at all?
[03:06:27] <sbx> I have GeForce4MX.
[03:06:53] <sbx> Well, no difference besides one is builtin chipset and the other is an AGP card.
[03:07:44] <servus> GEForce4MX has the same features and same performance as a GEForce2, more-or-less.
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[17:11:50] <sbx> hi
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[23:22:07] <curiousis> Hmm... I guess using multi-map I could copy Brittania and make a bizarro-Brittania with teleporters between the two. Kind of a cheap Zelda rip-off
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[23:27:46] <curiousis> Whee! In bizarro-Brittania Lord British looks like a Gargoyle, and Lord British runs around in circles dancing!
[23:30:29] <curiousis> Bah! Exult crashes when I try to place an egg on top of an object. TO THE BUG TRACKER!
[23:33:17] <servus> I'll show you my Christian Scientist if you show me your Gump.
[23:34:14] <curiousis> Are you coming on to me Servus? :)
[23:35:01] * servus goes, "yeeeeeeeeeeech".
[23:36:23] <curiousis> oh you...
[23:38:57] <curiousis> But regardless, multi-map is cool. I can imagine a lot of neat things you could do with it. Primarily adding a big section of plot in mid game without screwing everything else up. Kind of like toe Forge of Virtue.
[23:39:07] <curiousis> toe= the
[23:43:12] <Lord_Nightmare> servus: yes, they started charging for the windows x-chat, using a "you didn't submit your patches explicitly stating they're gpl therefore we're fucking you up the ass, kthxhaveaniceday" GPL loophole
[23:43:50] <Lord_Nightmare> servus: in response to the http://24.205.114.204:81/images/screenshots/XChat.png screenshot
[23:44:35] <Lord_Nightmare> FORTUNATELY the somewhat bloated unofficial fork of the windows xchat is still GPL
[23:46:02] <servus> Lord_Nightmare, I wouldn't pay for it.
[23:46:16] <Lord_Nightmare> neither would I nor anyone else I've asked
[23:46:40] <servus> Mostly because I doubt the money would go to any actual developers.
[23:46:59] <servus> I'm sure it'd go to some greedy guy that happens to know how to work a compiler in Windows.
[23:47:11] <Lord_Nightmare> it goes to fred?, the person who wrote 95% of xchat
[23:47:35] <Lord_Nightmare> he's the one who lost his job? and decided to start milking the formerly free windows xchat build for cash
[23:48:24] <servus> I'd be interested in statistics on how much money he makes.
[23:48:39] <Lord_Nightmare> the last 5% he said "if you don't want your patches in xchat anymore, tell me so i can rewrite them. i don't want any code in xchat whose authors don't want it there"
[23:48:58] <Lord_Nightmare> "but unless you say something I assume you don't mind"
[23:49:18] <servus> From what you say, it sounds as if this character doesn't have the 'GPL Spirit' in his heart.
[23:49:23] <Lord_Nightmare> indeed
[23:49:37] <Lord_Nightmare> i think what he did is of very low moral value
[23:49:45] <Lord_Nightmare> er
[23:49:49] <Lord_Nightmare> moral character
[23:50:40] <Lord_Nightmare> the fact that its probably not legal according to the gpl either is besides the point, but he seems to have put at least some effort into 'legitamizing' it
[23:50:55] <servus> I didn't like his explanation
[23:51:00] <Lord_Nightmare> neither do i
[23:51:12] <servus> Q. Why isn't the Windows version free?
[23:51:12] <servus> A. Building X-Chat for Windows is a difficult process, it requires quite some skill and expertise to accomplish. It takes time, and is by no means automated.
[23:51:22] <servus> "Building"
[23:52:04] <servus> He also tells you that if you want technical support after paying for the propduct, you are SOL.
[23:52:22] <Lord_Nightmare> thats why if i submit any patches to xchat, i'd submit them to the free fork ONLY. also, the code for the windows version is 'mostly free' supposedly, it just has the restriction bits torn out...
[23:52:32] <Lord_Nightmare> and obviously it isn't compiled
[23:52:42] <wjp> so why doesn't anybody produce a free port?
[23:52:47] <Lord_Nightmare> wjp: they did
[23:52:57] <servus> From xchat.org/windows: Q. What if I compile my own version from the source code?
[23:52:57] <servus> A. You are quite welcome to do so, and redistribute it under the terms of the G.P.L. license.
[23:53:43] <servus> Free XChat2 for Windows: http://www.silverex.org/download/
[23:53:46] <Lord_Nightmare> servus: i was actually hoping to make a list of explicit GPL violations he did when 'license changing' and send it to RMS or something
[23:53:56] <Lord_Nightmare> yeah silverex, thats what i was blocking
[23:54:03] <Lord_Nightmare> i knew it started with an s
[23:54:20] <Lord_Nightmare> RMS is a NUT, i'll admit, but he has his uses
[23:55:22] <Lord_Nightmare> if he pulled EVERY LINE OF CODE HE DIDN'T WRITE out of xchat, then what he did is perfectly legal
[23:55:28] <Lord_Nightmare> but he did not.
[23:55:43] <Lord_Nightmare> at least not initially. he may have done it by now though
[23:55:56] <wjp> what about library dependencies?
[23:56:39] <Lord_Nightmare> wjp: initially /. people thought he was violating the GPLing of Readline, but it turns out he's using the ONE FILE in readline which is LGPL and not GPL
[23:57:06] <wjp> is he allowing relinking against that one file?
[23:57:19] <Lord_Nightmare> i don't know.
[23:57:25] <Lord_Nightmare> he's statically linking to it
[23:57:26] <wjp> (i.e., I modify that file and want to use the modified version with xchat
[23:57:28] <wjp> )
[23:57:37] <wjp> if he doesn't allow that, he's violating the LGPL
[23:57:42] <Lord_Nightmare> its built into the executable
[23:57:53] <Lord_Nightmare> wjp: ok, i'll add that to the list.
[23:59:26] * Lord_Nightmare actually happens to know of a large well known software company who is almost certainly violating the GPL in one of their almost-unadvertised products