#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 22 Sep 2001 (GMT)

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[00:38:35] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC (good night)
[02:02:27] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[02:21:23] <Kirben> ?seen wjp
[02:21:23] <exultbot> wjp left IRC around Fri Sep 21 22:30:49 2001 (GMT) ([x]chat)
[05:20:32] --> Waz has joined #exult
[05:20:43] <Waz> just me and you..
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[09:11:36] <wjp> hi
[09:12:17] <matto> WJP!!!!
[09:12:23] <Kirben> Hi wjp
[09:12:25] <wjp> MATTO!!!!
[09:12:33] <wjp> hi Travis
[09:12:44] <matto> http://www.daphne-emu.com
[09:12:46] <matto> we've released :)
[09:12:52] <matto> check out those screenshots.. hohohohohoho
[09:12:57] <matto> kirben!!!!
[09:12:59] <Kirben> Last commit caused missing file error here
[09:14:08] <wjp> which one?
[09:14:12] <Kirben> ucdisasm.cc
[09:14:18] <Kirben> requests uctools.h
[09:14:20] <wjp> oh?
[09:14:35] <wjp> that's in the tools subdir
[09:14:55] <wjp> might need a small makefile patch
[09:15:35] <Kirben> ah so just add tools directory to path ?
[09:16:07] <wjp> yeah
[09:18:47] <wjp> committed
[09:21:51] <Kirben> You didn't add ucdisasm.o
[09:22:02] <wjp> ugh... right
[09:22:04] <Kirben> or add path to vpath
[09:22:08] <wjp> (just got out of bed :-) )
[09:22:31] <Kirben> and used ($SRC) instead of $(SRC)
[09:22:38] <Kirben> ok want me to change and dcc then ?
[09:22:38] <wjp> ARGH
[09:22:49] <wjp> nah, I'll just fix it
[09:23:25] <wjp> why do I need to add it to vpath?
[09:26:54] <wjp> hmm, I _still_ have >50% packet loss to anything more than 3 hops away.... apparently they didn't fix the problem yet
[09:27:26] <wjp> I just committed the Makefile's with ucdisasm.o added, btw
[09:27:58] <Kirben> I just thought all paths need to be in vpath variable too.
[09:28:28] <wjp> no, just the paths that contain source files that you want to be able to build without explicitly naming that directory in the compile command
[09:30:39] <Kirben> Thanks for fix
[09:46:04] --> SharpTooth has joined #exult
[09:46:14] <SharpTooth> Hi all.
[09:56:44] <wjp> hi
[10:04:39] <SharpTooth> Just a question, I'm putting together a simple commandline 'setup' program. It's currently just a exsetup.cc file in exult/tools. I'm just checking if I've got the Makefile.am editied correctly. The only changes I've make are adding an 'exsetup' entry into noinst_PROGRAMS (for testing), and adding exsetup_SOURCES = exsetup.cc. Is this all that's needed?
[10:05:01] <SharpTooth> It's working I'm just unused modifing automake files.
[10:06:03] <wjp> yeah, I think that would be enough
[10:06:40] <SharpTooth> <nod> Thanks. I couldn't see anything wrong with it, I was just wondering if it was as simple as it seems. :)
[10:06:49] <wjp> :-)
[10:07:20] <SharpTooth> Incidentally, any particular suggestions for the setup program?
[10:08:13] <wjp> dunno, what's your current plan?
[10:08:21] <SharpTooth> Other then of couse, trying to make it idiot proof. :)
[10:09:45] <SharpTooth> The first "phase" is going to be a simple, question and answer, yes/no or type in a directory path, type thing. Second "phase" I'm planning to add some more sanity checks, and maybe a 'search for the particular file and prompt for responces' option.
[10:11:12] <wjp> checking the validity of the paths entered would be very useful
[10:11:29] <wjp> (checking for a static/initgame.dat file in there, or something)
[10:12:09] <SharpTooth> Third "phase" is for adding an 'install setup' option to decode the binary files to text files upon installation, and maybe making a completely automated, 'type exsetup --auto' and it works configure.
[10:12:26] <wjp> decode binary to text?
[10:12:38] <wjp> oh.. right.. I remember something about that
[10:12:41] <SharpTooth> (third phase) And do basic making sure all the files are there type check.
[10:13:30] <SharpTooth> 'install setup' is actually more of the fourth phase. :) But it depends what happens when, and when I get around to finishing coding things. <snicker>
[10:13:44] <Kirben> Should be no need to convert binary to text
[10:13:54] <Kirben> Any decent text editor reads both
[10:14:08] <wjp> ?
[10:14:16] <SharpTooth> Yep, but humans read and edit nicely formatted files better.
[10:14:35] <SharpTooth> It's in the 'future ideas for modifications' section. :)
[10:16:09] <Kirben> ?? formating is kept
[10:19:10] <Kirben> I'm talking about the text files, readmes etc..
[10:19:14] <SharpTooth> Think of writing a new game with the exult engine. If we allow people to edit text files without needing fancy programs, it's less work for us to created fancy editors. :) One of my long term plans is also to get exult to start reading text files upon loading, rather then binary, partially because I have a particular loathing for hard to read and understand data files. :)
[10:19:48] <SharpTooth> I'm taking about the U7 binary data files for weapons data and such.
[10:35:51] <Kirben> Could someone add updated makefile.cygiwn to cvs if I dcc ?
[10:36:17] <Kirben> Just added distribution option since I keep forgetting to keep docs current in snapshots
[10:40:16] <SharpTooth> If there is a way to only update one file to the cvs, I'll do it. I just have a half-finished state I don't want to commit yet.
[10:41:08] <Kirben> cvs comit file I think
[10:42:09] <wjp> commit, actually :-)
[10:43:48] <SharpTooth> Ok, I've got it, I'll commit now.
[10:46:39] <Kirben> hmm new installer doesn't work
[10:47:02] <SharpTooth> Ok, it's in.
[10:47:38] <Kirben> Thanks
[10:47:47] <Kirben> ?seen colorless
[10:47:47] <exultbot> I haven't seen colorless lately
[10:48:22] <SharpTooth> He was here about 24 hours ago, if that helps. <grin>
[10:48:28] <wjp> ?seen colourless
[10:48:28] <exultbot> colourless left IRC around Fri Sep 21 21:00:05 2001 (GMT) (Read error to Colourless[ppp370.adelaide.on.net.au]: Connection reset by peer)
[10:49:12] <Kirben> oh well will stick with old installer again for now
[10:52:33] <Kirben> SharpTooth: what utility do you use for conversions ? from binary to text
[10:54:43] <SharpTooth> I usually roll my own, for the binary->text in C++ for each different file format, depending upon how the data is stored, if it's a simple table it's trivial, if it's multiply nested tables or crossreferenced it's more difficult.
[10:55:49] <Kirben> ok I guess I will have to stick with u2d then
[10:56:12] <SharpTooth> The output text file tends to be formatted in such a way that I already have some code to read it into a C++ struct/class, so I just do the conversion the other way, the same way.
[10:56:23] <SharpTooth> u2d? What's that?
[10:56:57] <Kirben> http://www.neuro.gatech.edu/users/cwilson/cygutils/V1.1/misc/index.html
[10:57:06] <Kirben> u2d.exe: a copy of conv.exe which defaults to converting UNIX->DOS
[10:57:41] <Kirben> Colourless wants me to convert text files from unix to dos, which I will although I disagree.
[10:58:09] <SharpTooth> Ahh. Ok. ;) The last time I needed one of those I rolled my own with sed, IIRC. :)
[10:58:39] <SharpTooth> <nod> I can't see the point of converting anything but the README/FAQ/install docs like that.
[10:58:58] <wjp> btw... binary -> text is something completely different from unix -> dos
[10:59:02] <SharpTooth> We're having a hard enough time for most people to read just that.
[10:59:30] <SharpTooth> blah that should be: to get people to read just that.
[10:59:56] * SharpTooth <nods> at wjp
[11:01:34] <Kirben> ok I mixed up again
[11:02:10] <Kirben> SharpTooth: I will only be doing it for authors, copying, faq, readme, readme.win32 and news.
[11:03:07] <SharpTooth> (exsetup) Ok, there seems to be different collections of options "minimal BG setup" "minimal SI setup" "minimal BG/SI setup" "maximul BG setup" "maximul SI setup" "maximul BG/SI setup" and "absolutely everything", can you see any I'm missing?
[11:03:25] <SharpTooth> Kirben: <nod> That sounds like a good 'minimal' set.
[11:04:03] <Kirben> custom install ?
[11:04:44] <SharpTooth> They are all 'custom' at the moment.
[11:06:23] <SharpTooth> The current program won't do _any_ guessing requiring you to put data in for all the questions asked (most of which will supply a default), the different 'option collections' are just so that if they don't have/want to install SI they don't get asked all the questions about it.
[11:06:58] <SharpTooth> The next 'version' once it's more-or-less functional will do searching for datafiles and such.
[11:08:08] <SharpTooth> I'm currently trying for a good, 'run this, answer the questions and it'll work' program for the moment. Doing magic is for the later versions.
[11:08:14] <SharpTooth> :)
[11:09:14] <Kirben> sounds good
[11:10:22] <SharpTooth> I'm hoping it'll minimise the 'I haven't bothered to read anything' questions. <sigh>
[11:11:00] <Kirben> Do the defaultkeys.txt files need to be in unix style to load into exult ?
[11:11:58] <wjp> no
[11:12:26] <wjp> well, they shouldn't, anyway
[11:13:39] <SharpTooth> I'd expect we'd already have heard complaints about it if it was necessary.
[11:14:13] <wjp> it uses ifstream::getline() to get the lines
[11:14:36] <SharpTooth> It shouldn't have a problem then.
[11:28:28] <Kirben> hmm can zip exclude directories ?
[11:29:03] <SharpTooth> Which one? unix zip? dos pkzip? or winzip?
[11:29:08] <Kirben> I'm using zip -9 -r Exult.zip /home/kirben/exult/* -x \CVS \SDL but it still includes those directories in zip file
[11:29:19] <Kirben> zip under Cygwin so unix zip I guess
[11:30:32] <SharpTooth> zip -x looks like what you're after.
[11:31:26] <SharpTooth> Although I'm not sure if it works only on filenames or on directories as well.
[11:33:59] <SharpTooth> OTOP, you could do in the directory you want the files you want excluded are "ls >exclude.lst" then do 'zip -r foo foo -x@exclude.lst' to exclude those files. Although you would want to make sure that there weren't any files in that directory named the same as in files in another directory you want included. If that makes sense. :)
[11:34:55] <SharpTooth> Either way "man zip" or "info zip" are your friends. ;)
[11:38:24] <Kirben> Already checked man out, might stick with winzip for now.
[11:39:00] <SharpTooth> <nod> I can't really see any easy way of doing it, unfortunatly. <sigh>
[12:08:31] --- SharpTooth is now known as STidle
[12:46:59] --> Colourless has joined #Exult
[12:47:12] <Colourless> hi
[12:48:57] <wjp> hi
[12:53:33] <Kirben> Hi Colourless
[12:53:53] <Kirben> No luck with that InstallerShield installer
[12:54:03] <Colourless> what was the problem?
[12:54:10] <Kirben> It keeps using the original files you bundled with it.
[12:54:34] <Colourless> ummm how?
[12:54:37] <Kirben> Even when I place new versions in same place.
[12:55:17] <Colourless> that's impossible
[12:56:13] <Colourless> i just realized the problem
[12:56:25] <Colourless> doesn't look like it will work.
[12:56:39] <Colourless> it records the size of the files it wants and copies files of that size regardless
[12:57:49] <Kirben> ah that explains it
[12:57:58] <Kirben> files had same file sizes and dates
[13:00:37] <Kirben> Would an install guide help in meantime ?
[13:00:48] <Colourless> yeah probably
[13:00:56] <Kirben> maybe a html file that pops up by default after the snapshot install
[13:15:04] <Colourless> i think i may have found a way around the problem
[13:16:01] <Colourless> it appears that if the original files were larger than the files that exist, it doesn't care
[13:16:24] <wjp> let me guess... you're going to create some really big files? ;-)
[13:16:46] <Colourless> heh, i'm going to see if it works :)
[13:19:55] <wjp> ARGH.... I still get >50% packet loss to nearly anywhere
[13:30:04] --- STidle is now known as SharpTooth
[13:30:44] <SharpTooth> I don't suppose there is any details of the exult configuration file floating around in a text file somewhere?
[13:31:08] * SharpTooth twaps his head. "Don't worry. Mesa stupid."
[13:31:21] <Colourless> ok, i wont
[13:32:06] <SharpTooth> Just after I sent that I realised a "mv .exult.cfg .exult.cfg.old; exult;" would work nicely. <grin>
[13:36:14] <wjp> you don't get all options that way, I think
[13:37:08] <SharpTooth> <nod> I just want the 'defaults' currently just so I can do the quick setup BG. I'll flesh them out with my 'complete' configuration file later.
[13:56:10] <Colourless> kirben: i've recompiled the setup if you want. http://www.users.on.net/triforce/exult/newfiles.zip
[13:59:33] <Kirben> hmm dates look really weird, all 2000
[13:59:48] <Kirben> seems to work though
[14:00:30] <Colourless> they are all 2000?
[14:01:04] <Kirben> almost all:
[14:01:05] <Kirben> 22/09/2001 11:59p 4,279 Uninst.isu
[14:01:06] <Kirben> 04/12/2000 12:16p 2,194,944 exult.exe
[14:01:06] <Kirben> 22/09/2001 11:59p <DIR> Data
[14:01:06] <Kirben> 25/03/2000 01:40a 1,899 sidefaultkeys.txt
[14:01:06] <Kirben> 25/03/2000 01:40a 410 AUTHORS
[14:01:07] <Kirben> 25/03/2000 01:40a 1,728 bgdefaultkeys.txt
[14:01:08] <Colourless> so they are
[14:01:09] <Kirben> 25/03/2000 01:40a 18,332 COPYING
[14:01:11] <Kirben> 25/03/2000 01:40a 1,614 exult.cfg.example
[14:01:13] <Kirben> 25/03/2000 01:40a 23,832 FAQ
[14:01:15] <Kirben> 25/03/2000 01:40a 10,011 NEWS
[14:01:17] <Kirben> 25/03/2000 01:40a 19,143 README
[14:01:19] <Kirben> 25/03/2000 01:40a 438 README-SDL.txt
[14:01:21] <Kirben> 01/01/2000 11:22p 221,184 SDL.dll
[14:01:23] <Kirben> 22/09/2001 11:59p 1,519 exult.cfg
[14:01:25] <Kirben> 22/09/2001 11:59p 632 stdout.txt
[14:02:12] <Kirben> Incorrect dates would make it much more difficult to tell how old snapshot is.
[14:12:30] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/exult/changes.zip will set the date to today
[14:13:06] <Colourless> i'm going to see if I can work out the file date/time format changes and I'll see if I can write a small app to allow you to change the dates of the files
[15:07:48] <-- Kirben has left IRC (System Meltdown)
[15:23:27] <wjp> brb
[15:23:28] <-- wjp has left IRC ([x]chat)
[15:25:55] --> wjp has joined #exult
[15:30:34] <SharpTooth> Night (or something approximating it), all. I'm off to sleep. <grin>
[15:30:40] <wjp> bye
[15:30:43] <Colourless> cya
[15:30:59] <-- SharpTooth has left IRC (Till we meet again.)
[16:02:17] * wjp fixed nearly-infinite loop in the butterfly scene:
[16:02:27] <wjp> delay = (delay + (2*BUTTERFLY_FRAME_DURATION - ticks)) / 2;
[16:02:47] <wjp> ticks is a Uin32 and larger than 2*BUTTERFLY_FRAME_DURATION... oops :-)
[16:03:11] <Colourless> :)
[16:14:35] * wjp is trying to get Avernum to run in Wine
[16:14:58] <wjp> it's working surprisingly well, only a certain type of dialog box doesn't show up
[16:15:47] <wjp> turns out that it's trying to draw to a NULL device context
[16:16:03] <Colourless> badly written program :)
[16:16:10] <wjp> bug in Wine, more likely :-)
[16:16:23] <Colourless> probably :)
[16:16:28] <wjp> (it works fine in windows, btw)
[16:16:42] <wjp> a device context is something kind of like a surface, right?
[16:16:49] <Colourless> yeah
[16:16:52] <Colourless> for gdi
[16:16:55] * wjp nods
[16:19:32] <wjp> it's really scary how many win32 API functions are called in a couple of seconds
[16:20:00] <Colourless> you'd find that it's the same for all operating systems I would say
[16:20:06] <wjp> yeah
[16:20:12] <wjp> still scary :-)
[17:54:07] * wjp hacks wine not to free GDI handle 2880 ;-)
[17:54:19] <Colourless> :)
[17:54:37] <wjp> maybe I should submit it as a patch to the wine developers if it works ;-)
[17:54:49] <Colourless> hehe
[17:55:28] <wjp> ...which it didn't
[18:09:12] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
[18:20:18] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[18:46:11] <wjp> hmmm... it looks like the GDI object belonging to the DC is freed, without the DC itself being freed
[18:46:36] <wjp> and when the DC is re-used, it 'inherits' the already-deleted GDI object
[18:48:24] <wjp> ...or something like that :-)
[18:55:22] * wjp explicitly forbids re-using handle 2880
[18:59:38] --> x-bow has joined #exult
[19:10:06] <wjp> surprisingly, that one isn't the only one with a problem :/
[19:10:18] <wjp> maybe I just don't get this thing :-)
[19:10:24] <Colourless> maybe :)
[19:15:25] <wjp> oh nice... deadlocks
[19:15:41] <wjp> and I only modified a few debug statements (I think)
[19:15:57] <Colourless> well, I would say you've done more than that :)
[19:16:14] <wjp> oops... one of the functions I used to get some data has some side-effects
[19:17:45] <wjp> Wine is interesting, btw. It also immediately cures any ideas about the Exult renderer being overly complicated ;-)
[19:18:14] <Colourless> heh. Exult's renderer is actually very simple
[19:20:05] <wjp> ok... so I have a DCE structure here (Extended Device Context), with a hDC member. (which is a GDI handle)
[19:20:29] <wjp> you'd think that calling GetDCEx(hDC) would return the original DCE, but instead this one returns NULL
[19:21:03] <Colourless> is hDC valid?
[19:21:17] <wjp> yeah, 2880
[19:21:22] <wjp> it's used a lot earlier
[19:21:56] <wjp> from what I can tell it keeps a cache of no-longer-used DCe's for recycling, and it stores the DCe previously associated with that handle
[19:22:21] <Colourless> HDC GetDCEx(
[19:22:22] <Colourless> HWND hWnd, // handle to window
[19:22:22] <Colourless> HRGN hrgnClip, // handle to clipping region
[19:22:22] <Colourless> DWORD flags // creation options
[19:22:22] <Colourless> );
[19:22:39] <wjp> funny
[19:22:54] * wjp rechecks trace
[19:23:15] <wjp> umm... sorry... I didn't mean GetDCEx
[19:23:21] <Colourless> :)
[19:23:29] <Colourless> it would appear not
[19:23:47] <wjp> it was "DC* GetDCPtr (HDC hdc)"
[19:24:06] <wjp> GetDCEx is the function that returns the DCE with the invalid handle
[19:25:29] <Colourless> so, the HDC returned by GetDCEx isn't valid
[19:25:39] * wjp nods
[19:26:19] <Colourless> i assume that the window is valid
[19:26:41] <wjp> I assume so too
[19:27:01] <Colourless> is the clipping region valid?
[19:28:27] <wjp> window handle appears to be valid
[19:28:40] * wjp checks clipping region
[19:28:42] <Colourless> was the DC previously released ?
[19:29:08] <wjp> I didn't find any mention of it in the trace
[19:29:59] <wjp> but that doesn't necessarily mean anything
[19:30:25] <Colourless> Unless the display DC belongs to a window class, the ReleaseDC function must be called to release the DC after painting. Also, ReleaseDC must be called from the same thread that called GetDCEx.
[19:30:37] <Colourless> quote from the SDK
[19:31:02] * wjp looks for the ReleaseDC function
[19:31:15] <wjp> I wonder if it will turn out to be a Wine or an Avernum bug :-)
[19:34:33] <wjp> ah, here's a call to ReleaseDC, hwnd = 1002e, hdc = 0b40
[19:37:22] <wjp> the handle is still used after that call though... hmm
[19:37:47] --> Waz has joined #exult
[19:38:26] <Waz> ?logs
[19:38:26] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[19:39:36] <wjp> ...but those uses are _inside_ ReleaseDC
[19:40:33] <wjp> next use is when a call to GetDCEx returns 0b40 again
[19:41:04] <wjp> then it's used..., released again...
[19:41:26] <wjp> and returned by GetDCEx again...
[19:41:28] <wjp> *yawn*
[19:41:56] * Waz agrees
[19:42:10] <wjp> strange...
[19:42:25] <wjp> after this ReleaseDC, a DeleteDC is called on it
[19:47:08] <wjp> this deletes the handle
[19:47:24] <wjp> but (almost directly) afterwards the handle is returned by GetDCEx
[19:48:40] <Colourless> bad
[19:49:16] <wjp> yes, very bad
[19:49:23] <Colourless> DeleteDC and ReleaseDC aren't meant to be used together
[19:49:26] <wjp> is DeleteDC an API call?
[19:49:32] <wjp> apparently it is :-)
[19:49:59] <wjp> so I guess I should check if it's called directly by Avernum or by another Wine function...
[19:50:01] <Colourless> DeleteDC is only to be used with CreateDC
[19:50:16] <Colourless> ReleaseDC must not be used with CreateDC
[19:50:25] <wjp> contradiction :-)
[19:50:32] <wjp> hence something is wrong :-)
[19:51:16] <wjp> could Windows have some kind of built-in check in DeleteDC?
[19:51:34] <Colourless> Return Values
[19:51:38] <Colourless> If the function succeeds, the return value is nonzero.
[19:51:38] <Colourless> If the function fails, the return value is zero
[19:51:42] <Colourless> therefore i guess it does
[19:51:45] * wjp nods
[19:52:00] <wjp> CreateDCA (driver="DISPLAY", device=(null), output=(null)): returning 0b40
[19:52:21] <wjp> CreateDCA is close enough to CreateDC, I guess?
[19:53:30] <Colourless> yeah, it's the ANSI version of CreateDC as opposed to the Unicode version CreateDCU
[19:56:02] <wjp> would not calling DeleteDC cause any problems? (other than memleaks)
[19:56:31] <Colourless> i wouldn't think so
[19:56:44] * wjp inserts "return FALSE; " at the start of DeleteDC
[19:57:11] <Waz> if i may stick my foot in my mouth, but if you did not free the dc, would no other thread be able to get it?
[19:58:17] * wjp 's mouth falls open... it worked!
[19:58:33] <wjp> it now displays the dialog!
[19:58:56] <wjp> (font sizes are still broken a bit, but that seems to happen a lot)
[20:02:05] <wjp> argh... sprite animation is broken now too
[20:03:29] <x-bow> lol. I just killed a wild pig and found it full of carrots :)
[20:04:05] <Waz> haha
[20:04:35] <Waz> i had some item duplication.. i had about 30 copies of the cove anti pollution laws..
[20:04:55] <Waz> :)
[20:05:09] <Colourless> it's easy getting multiple of those :)
[20:05:32] <x-bow> the worst was the barmaid in monitor. Filled my inventory with keys for the hidden cave :-/
[20:05:43] <wjp> heh :-)
[20:06:20] <Waz> i had spark get his backpack full of blue glass goblets.. donno where that happened
[20:09:50] <wjp> Minoc?
[20:10:34] <Waz> umm.. well.. i was walking through Yew and wonder why the tyke was so heavy...
[20:10:57] <Waz> so.. unless npc steal on their own accord..
[20:11:00] <Waz> :)
[20:11:28] <Waz> so.. i just tossed all the glass ware into the forest
[20:11:50] <Waz> and went on my way..
[20:15:09] <x-bow> eek. I just got another pig with 2 bananas in it
[20:15:31] <Colourless> what game?
[20:15:39] <x-bow> SI
[20:15:49] <Colourless> wouldn't surprise me
[20:16:02] <Waz> how amusing..
[20:16:38] <x-bow> not for the pig, i suspect
[20:17:00] <Waz> umm maybe the pig just ate the bananas and had not yet digested them.. yeah..
[20:17:12] <Colourless> ewwwww
[20:17:29] <x-bow> Is that hygeinic, avatar?
[20:17:31] <x-bow> :)
[20:17:43] <Waz> hahahaha
[20:17:51] <Waz> you had best not eat that
[20:18:03] <Colourless> such things have never concerned the avatar in the past
[20:18:20] <Waz> a stoic avatar
[20:18:38] <Colourless> i mean who else would go into a building that has been abandonded for years and eat what ever food that's there ;-)
[20:19:00] <x-bow> never mind that, what about the "cannibalism" incident in the goblin camp L)
[20:19:04] <x-bow> :)
[20:19:12] <Colourless> also, I mean, the avatar also eats mea
[20:19:13] <Waz> i need to play si.. i missing out.
[20:19:14] <Colourless> t
[20:24:09] <Waz> do you make any effort to do language localizaion or is it english only?
[20:24:56] <Colourless> we don't do anything in particular
[20:25:06] <Waz> ok
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[20:25:20] <wjp> but the non-english version of BG apparently run ok
[20:25:26] <Colourless> however we do support the non english versions of bg
[20:25:30] <wjp> versions, even
[20:25:46] <Colourless> SI only came in english
[20:26:15] <Waz> ok.. i ask because the map mod i've been tring to.. figure out, would nee dto support more than 1 language..
[20:27:25] <Colourless> how so>
[20:27:28] <Colourless> ?
[20:27:46] <Waz> how so regarding what?
[20:28:19] <Colourless> who would it need to support more than on language?
[20:28:23] <Colourless> s/on/one
[20:30:19] <Waz> well french people can't read english. (well they probably can, but only due to US influence on the world for the past 50 years), so any name other than a town name (personal pronoun) shoudl be in the language that the rest of the gam eis in?
[20:31:55] <Waz> so.. "deep forest" or "serpents spine' is not gona help them.
[20:32:52] <Colourless> hmmm
[20:35:00] <Waz> sic transit gloria mundi and in Latin also :)
[20:37:28] <Waz> makefile -> this correct "SDL_LIBS=-L$(SRC)/sdl/lib -lSDLmain -lSDL"?
[20:37:54] <Colourless> eh, yeah
[20:38:24] <Waz> k
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[20:51:59] <fingolfin> hi
[20:52:03] <wjp> hi
[20:52:03] <Waz> no
[20:52:04] <Colourless> hi
[20:52:07] <x-bow> hi
[20:52:13] <Colourless> no?
[20:52:23] <Waz> yes
[20:52:29] <Waz> Salve!
[20:52:39] <fingolfin> Gott zum Gruße
[20:52:52] <Waz> This Latin book rocks.. sorry, I will speak of it no more.
[20:53:11] <fingolfin> Asterix & Obelix is all you need to learn latin
[20:53:32] <fingolfin> Veni, vidi, vici!
[20:54:39] <Waz> Mihi ignosce
[20:55:18] <fingolfin> argh! seems I should revert to automake 1.4 :)
[20:56:33] <fingolfin> hmmm
[20:56:39] <fingolfin> or I try to fix tis
[20:57:02] <Waz> SDL_LIBS=-L$(SRC)/sdl/lib -lSDLmain -lSDL is thsi trying to look for a file called 'sdlmain'?
[20:57:18] <fingolfin> no
[20:57:24] <fingolfin> libsdlmain
[20:57:31] <fingolfin> part of SDL
[20:57:31] <Colourless> .a
[20:57:35] <fingolfin> .dylib
[20:57:35] <fingolfin> :)
[20:57:37] <fingolfin> .so
[20:57:40] <fingolfin> whatever
[20:57:46] <fingolfin> .dll
[20:57:56] <Colourless> .a!
[20:58:01] <Waz> but if i'm in win32, then it would be the sdl.dll file that has the exportable code..
[20:58:08] <fingolfin> Colourless: .dylib for me ...
[20:58:19] <fingolfin> sdlmain contains main() for SDL apps
[20:58:21] <Colourless> sdlmain.a is a static library
[20:58:46] <Waz> hmm..
[20:58:56] <fingolfin> Waz: you should have it, even if you use cygwin I think
[20:59:22] <Waz> well.. i have the sdl source and the dll, but its still unhappy..
[20:59:57] <fingolfin> Colourless: damn yeah you are right you got me there!
[21:00:16] <fingolfin> Waz: what OS are you using?
[21:00:19] <fingolfin> err
[21:00:24] <fingolfin> I mean, cygwin or mingw?
[21:00:24] <Waz> winders 2000
[21:00:28] <Waz> mingw
[21:00:44] <fingolfin> what exactly is your problems? what error?
[21:00:46] <Waz> 2.96.2? no.. 2.96.5 no..
[21:01:22] <Waz> this mingw.. Mingw-1.0.1-20010726.tar.gz
[21:01:36] <fingolfin> have you read the SDL faq on Mingw?
[21:01:38] <fingolfin> http://www.libsdl.org/faq/FAQ-Win32.html#WIN32_6
[21:01:53] <Waz> no i have not, i was not aware of one.
[21:02:48] <fingolfin> I am not sure if it will help you; but you might want to look at some other things of the FAQ, too
[21:02:58] <fingolfin> and then there is also #sdl to ask SDL questions =)
[21:03:20] <Waz> i find that on irc, people never help.. :)
[21:03:30] <fingolfin> Waz: maybe you ask in the wrong way
[21:03:43] <Waz> wouldn't supprise me..
[21:03:45] <fingolfin> Waz: people act a bit angry at people that have not even bothered to look at the FAQ...
[21:04:01] <Waz> i know.
[21:06:09] <-- Waz has left IRC ()
[21:06:31] <fingolfin> oh my, was he scared of now? :)
[21:06:39] <fingolfin> I didn't want to be harsh, but that's how i see it :)
[21:18:35] <Colourless> time for me to go
[21:18:40] <wjp> bye
[21:18:41] <x-bow> bye
[21:18:45] <Colourless> cya
[21:19:06] <-- Colourless has left IRC (" ")
[21:20:48] <fingolfin> http://www.lego.com/studios/screening/movie.asp?title=montypython
[21:20:49] <fingolfin> lol
[21:21:02] <wjp> is that that /. story?
[21:21:32] <fingolfin> yeah :)
[21:21:33] <wjp> quicktime or windows media?
[21:21:34] <fingolfin> I love it :)
[21:21:38] <wjp> woohoo... :/
[21:21:38] <fingolfin> both
[21:21:45] <fingolfin> oh wait
[21:21:46] <wjp> guess what :-)
[21:21:48] <fingolfin> you do not have both :)
[21:21:59] <wjp> I do not have either, in fact :/
[21:22:01] <fingolfin> isn't that this QT4Linux thing?
[21:22:04] <fingolfin> hmmm
[21:22:11] <fingolfin> maybe I can somehow convert this to MPEG or so
[21:22:13] <wjp> qt4linux? I'd have to check
[21:22:25] <wjp> I'll check next time I'm in windows
[21:24:59] <wjp> why do some people name .tar's .tar.gz?
[21:25:27] <wjp> tar xvf quicktime4linux-1.4.tar.gz sounds wrong
[21:28:22] <fingolfin> xvzf maybe?
[21:28:31] <wjp> no, that's what's wrong :-)
[21:28:53] <wjp> it was a .tar, but was named .tar.gz
[21:29:05] <wjp> grr.... this is a library, not a standalone viewer
[21:29:14] <fingolfin> hm
[21:29:22] <wjp> why don't they have a small test app?
[21:29:31] <fingolfin> I am not even sure that it will be helpful; I just heard the name someplace
[21:29:34] <fingolfin> no idea
[21:47:48] <fingolfin> can you import AVI's with cinepak compression?
[21:50:36] <wjp> not a clue
[21:51:28] <wjp> I'll just reboot to windows
[21:51:40] <wjp> I need to take a peek at the disassembly of Avernum.exe anyway
[21:52:21] <wjp> (I've been trying to get it to run under wine properly)
[21:52:41] <fingolfin> hehe :)
[21:53:05] <wjp> it works quite well; it's just that one type of dialog doesn't display properly, and one doesn't display at all
[21:53:19] <wjp> ...which makes clicking the right buttons a bit hard :-)
[21:53:52] <wjp> turns out something (either Avernum or Wine) deletes a Device Context and re-uses it immediately afterwards
[21:54:51] <wjp> rebooting... brb
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[21:57:35] <fingolfin> wb
[21:57:43] <wjp> thx
[21:57:48] <matto> wb :)
[21:58:47] <wjp> thank you too :-)
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[22:10:17] <sethion> hallo everyone!
[22:10:38] <wjp> hoi
[22:11:45] <fingolfin> hi
[22:11:54] <sethion> wjp, at www.rpmfind.com I can find an ncures-devel*****.rpm file, however, the numbers (here represented by stars) do not match the ones terminal asked..
[22:12:09] <sethion> Can I use this one anyway?
[22:12:20] <wjp> "this one" ?
[22:12:32] <wjp> Fingolfin: LOL @ lego movie :-)
[22:12:45] <sethion> (www.rpmfind.net by the way)
[22:12:56] <sethion> yes, the one I found at rpmfind
[22:13:07] <wjp> well, you probably found about 54
[22:13:16] <sethion> but only a few are for mandrake
[22:13:24] <wjp> yeah
[22:14:14] <sethion> ncurses-devel-5.2-12.2mdk.i586.rpm or ncurses-devel-5.2-12.1mdk.i586.rpm is what I found there. is one of these any good?
[22:14:48] <wjp> depends on which ncurses you have installed
[22:14:55] <sethion> (I was supposed to find -4.2-something
[22:14:57] <sethion> )
[22:15:09] <wjp> 4?
[22:15:13] <wjp> really?
[22:15:17] <sethion> I'd have to check
[22:15:28] <sethion> but I thought it started with a four or a two
[22:15:36] <wjp> Mandrake 8 comes with ncurses-5.2-12mdk
[22:15:46] <sethion> really?
[22:16:14] <sethion> oh! alright then.. So I take it either one of the above mentioned will do?
[22:17:12] <sethion> 1mdk or 2mdk..which should I pick?
[22:17:43] <wjp> strange... .1mdk is from Mandrake 7.2, and .2mdk is from Mandrake 7.1
[22:17:55] <wjp> and to make it even strange... the Mandrake Cooker contains ncurses 5.1 ?!
[22:18:06] <sethion> what is M-Cooker?
[22:18:12] <wjp> do the ncurses version numbers count backward or something??
[22:18:25] <wjp> something like an in-development version of Mandrake
[22:18:43] <sethion> like, a beta-Mandrake 9?
[22:18:59] <sethion> (or alpha for that matter)
[22:19:03] <wjp> yeah, something like that
[22:19:18] <sethion> oh.
[22:19:31] <wjp> although I don't know if it'll be Mandrake 9 or 8.1
[22:19:42] <sethion> but anyway, which one should I try? 1.mdk I should guess, because that's the newest (according to your backwards-counting theory)
[22:20:00] <wjp> no, according to rpmfind.net
[22:20:20] <sethion> :)
[22:20:46] <sethion> so I'll just try the newest then
[22:20:55] <wjp> pick either... the differences will be minimal if they only upgraded the fractional part of the mandrake-patchlevel
[22:21:18] <sethion> ok
[22:21:25] <sethion> oh, by the way..
[22:21:34] <sethion> I downloaded the linux-exult alpha5
[22:22:52] <sethion> and when back in linux, I double clicked it (in some kind of File Manager for Linux), and it started to ..extract..or something. after I had to give the root-password (for a file?!?). How do I get it to work?
[22:23:04] <fingolfin> wjp: yeah the lego video is great :)
[22:23:29] <sethion> lego video?
[22:23:46] <wjp> had to download 3 new version of media player according to IE, but who cares, right? ;-)
[22:24:15] * sethion wonders what the lego-video is
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[22:24:38] <fingolfin> sethion: check /.
[22:25:14] <wjp> (which is www.slashdot.org)
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[22:26:03] <sethion> nothing I seem to type comes on the screen..
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[22:26:07] <sethion> oh, never mind
[22:27:28] <sethion> monthy python and the holy lego
[22:27:30] <sethion> hmmm
[22:28:15] * wjp is going to check how bad his packet loss/ping in D2 is
[22:29:14] <sethion> joost complaining again?
[22:30:38] <wjp> no, me :-)
[22:30:55] <wjp> ping is between 90ms and 900ms :/
[22:31:04] <sethion> kickass song! :)
[22:32:28] <sethion> 90 is good...
[22:32:29] <sethion> :)
[22:34:32] <wjp> 900 is bad...
[22:34:50] <fingolfin> I noticed that 1.09 (or maybe it is due to LoD) is much slower on my machine..
[22:34:58] <fingolfin> that is, we used to be able to play nicely in our LAN
[22:35:18] <fingolfin> last time we played in Lan (with 5 ppl), that was some weeks ago, everything was super slow
[22:35:31] <fingolfin> I am talking a local lan, on a switch, FastEtherne
[22:35:36] <fingolfin> and we sometimes had a 500 ping!
[22:36:19] <fingolfin> and another problem I have (which I hadn't in the past) - I even get it to bog down in single player mode... seems that if I hold down ctrl (to run) too long, it starts to skip frames
[22:36:25] <fingolfin> till it goes down to 6 FPS or so
[22:36:37] <fingolfin> all in all, I do not enjoy it as much as I did before :/
[22:37:00] <wjp> I just jumped to 3000ping in the middle of a fight
[22:37:32] <wjp> I get a lot of slowdowns followed by speedups since the expansion
[22:38:08] <wjp> oh, btw, why didn't you tell me you now have 16 keys available for skill hotkeys? ;-)
[22:38:40] <sethion> hmm..download is taking forever..
[22:39:05] <fingolfin> wjp: I thought I did tell you :)
[22:39:13] <wjp> nice... I found a +3 to martial arts amulet
[22:39:20] <fingolfin> wjp: I use a y x to switch my left skill :)
[22:39:23] <matto> +3 !
[22:39:26] <fingolfin> neat
[22:39:34] <wjp> a y x?
[22:39:34] <matto> that's crazy!
[22:39:36] <sethion> ?me wonders what game you are discussing
[22:39:39] <wjp> oh wait... s/z/y/ ;-)
[22:39:43] <sethion> ? = /
[22:39:52] <matto> I am assuming Diablo 2 expansion
[22:39:58] <matto> but I haven't played it so I don't know
[22:39:59] <wjp> yeah
[22:40:06] <wjp> silly german keyboards :-)
[22:40:07] <matto> I know there was never any +3 ammy's in regular D2
[22:40:09] <matto> and +2's were dang rare
[22:40:10] <sethion> oh, haven't even played diablo 2
[22:40:12] <matto> I never had one :(
[22:40:15] <wjp> it's a +3 to a skill tree
[22:40:19] <wjp> not to all skills
[22:40:28] * fingolfin is trying to port ffmpeg to OS X - now somebody tell me, what is an "extern inline" functions supposed to do??? :)
[22:40:37] <wjp> extern inline? hehe :-)
[22:41:00] <fingolfin> they don't use autoconf... a nightmare
[22:41:08] <sethion> 85 ping, 0 ploss :)))
[22:41:09] <fingolfin> oh, I *can* specify my compiler by setting CC
[22:41:10] <wjp> maybe the writer was a Java programmer? just toss as many modifiers into a function as you can get away with...
[22:41:22] <fingolfin> sadly, in three placess they still hardcode gcc; etc. etc., loads of linuxisms
[22:41:30] <fingolfin> wjp: lol
[22:42:18] <wjp> I just love all those 'public static final void' things :-)
[22:42:21] <fingolfin> I see what they want it to do
[22:42:27] <fingolfin> an inline function that is not inline! :)
[22:42:33] * fingolfin shudderfs
[22:42:44] <matto> stop shudderfing!
[22:42:50] <fingolfin> hehe :)
[22:43:02] <sethion> :)
[22:43:38] <matto> if I had been more up on things, I would've said to stop shudderfingolfin hehe
[22:45:26] <fingolfin> and I am *not* from finland and play no golf!
[22:45:47] <matto> hehe
[22:47:13] <sethion> why is my download taking forever when I have a ping of 97
[22:47:25] <matto> what does latency have to do with bandwidth?
[22:47:31] <sethion> I don't know
[22:47:40] <matto> not much :)
[22:47:43] <sethion> oh
[22:47:59] <sethion> I just figured, they;re both connection and speed indicators
[22:48:38] <wjp> truckload of DAT tapes: HUGE bandwidth, hopeless latency
[22:49:00] <matto> ping is how fast your first packet travels to the remote host.. bandwidth is how fast the rest of your packets travel... or something close to that :)
[22:49:31] <sethion> like I said, both speed indicatoras
[22:49:33] <sethion> -a
[22:49:56] <matto> yes but you acted as if your should have a lot of bandwidth just because you have a low ping
[22:50:00] <matto> and that's not necessarily true
[22:50:14] <sethion> well, I think it should.
[22:50:27] <sethion> because I want my file eye sunrise
[22:50:34] <fingolfin> difference between desire and reality :)
[22:50:35] <sethion> y=r
[22:50:40] <matto> hehehe
[22:50:43] <x-bow> OMFG. I've got up to skullcrusher, and all my savegames since the dream realm, inluding this one, are corrupted
[22:51:17] <fingolfin> these guys really like this bloody damn "extern inline" argh!
[22:51:17] <matto> x-bow: dominus is no stranger to corrupted save games ...
[22:51:43] <x-bow> i'm going to cry now i think
[22:52:25] <sethion> corrupted savegames are evil
[22:53:06] <x-bow> too right. half my npcs have turned into a timberwolf called sonar
[22:53:47] <sethion> hey, great idea! I'll play some SI whilst the file downloads
[22:54:16] <x-bow> I only twigged when vasulio turned into a wolf when he got out of his coffin
[22:54:21] <x-bow> vasculio
[22:56:33] <sethion> does anyone know..Can I use my windows savegamnes (exult) in linux version of exult, or Do I have to start over in linux
[22:58:11] <fingolfin> you should be able to interchange them
[22:58:24] <sethion> great!
[22:58:36] <sethion> what a wonderful program
[23:02:05] <fingolfin> yeah the guys who wrote it are really demi-gods
[23:02:08] <fingolfin> 8-)
[23:02:14] <sethion> ...
[23:02:56] * sethion dares not oppose that statement, yet does not fully agree
[23:03:36] <sethion> is there a light-cheat in si?
[23:04:04] <wjp> ctrl-alt-i or something
[23:04:18] <fingolfin> infravision
[23:04:51] <sethion> alt-i found it. thanks!
[23:05:19] <sethion> I am being attacked by flying mermaids
[23:05:58] <sethion> topless flying mermaids
[23:06:02] <sethion> :)
[23:06:19] <fingolfin> :)
[23:06:31] <fingolfin> ffmpeg server uses poll() ... sigh
[23:06:39] <sethion> was Ultima VII :SI R-rated?
[23:07:20] <wjp> I don't think they really rated games back then
[23:08:53] <x-bow> Lets see, you can cause the avatar to commit a sex act that is illegal in most parts of the civilised world
[23:09:07] <x-bow> Theft is practically encouraged
[23:09:13] * fingolfin whispers to wjp "what does he say about that one special scene?"
[23:09:25] <fingolfin> x-bow: ssht!
[23:09:53] <sethion> aw, that was only a barmaid
[23:12:03] <sethion> eeeww! a giant spiderwoman!
[23:12:46] <x-bow> fingolfin: Well _i'm_ not going to explain it :)
[23:15:26] <sethion> _I'm_ going to try to get my linux internet connection up. If I'm back in a bit, that means it worked
[23:15:38] <-- sethion has left IRC ()
[23:18:49] <wjp> which would involve a kernel recompile, if I understand correctly, since his ISDN card apparently isn't supported by default
[23:19:25] <x-bow> he may be gone some time
[23:20:44] <wjp> yeah :-)
[23:22:20] <x-bow> Oooh. I might be going to meet patrick stewart and watch first contact on an IMAX screen next week
[23:22:26] <x-bow> joy :)
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[23:41:45] <sethion> AARGH
[23:42:14] <sethion> I tried to install the downloaded ncurses-devel, and I got an error
[23:43:34] <sethion> ..everyone gone to bed?
[23:43:49] <wjp> no, we're waiting for you to tell what the error was ;-)
[23:44:35] <sethion> oh!
[23:44:48] <sethion> error: failed dependencies:
[23:45:16] <sethion> ncures = 5.2-12.mdk is needed by ncurses-devel-5.2-12.1mdk
[23:45:54] <sethion> but, since I already have the firstmentioned (I tried to re-install it from the cd, but terminal said it had already been installed)
[23:46:04] <sethion> I am left clueless
[23:46:11] <wjp> I'd get a matching ncurses-5.2-12.1mdk.i586.rpm
[23:46:32] <sethion> that's what I thought
[23:46:40] <sethion> but rpmfind doesnt seem to have one
[23:46:45] <wjp> and then do "rpm -U ncurses-5.2-12.1mdk.i586.rpm ncurses-devel-5.2-12.1mdk.rpm"
[23:46:56] <sethion> only ncurses-extraterms
[23:47:01] <sethion> whatever that may be
[23:47:22] <wjp> rpmfind.net does have it
[23:47:32] <wjp> just search for ncurses
[23:47:47] <sethion> found it
[23:47:48] <sethion> thanks
[23:47:52] <sethion> I'll try that, then
[23:48:11] <wjp> make sure you use "rpm -U" and not "rpm -i"
[23:48:30] <sethion> you said -i !
[23:48:41] <sethion> before
[23:48:58] <sethion> (cant recall you having said -U)
[23:48:59] <wjp> yes... but here you're upgrading an existing package, not installing a new one
[23:49:12] <wjp> (U = upgrade, i = install)
[23:49:38] <sethion> right. So xyz-devel is an upgrade of xyz?
[23:49:59] <wjp> no, but ncurses-5.2-12.1mdk is an upgrade of whatever is there now
[23:50:18] <sethion> ah, now I get it
[23:50:39] <sethion> so I should use the -U tag with the ncurses (normal) and -i with the ncurses-devel
[23:50:48] <wjp> or -U on both
[23:51:10] <sethion> ..which one is it, then
[23:51:21] <sethion> -U on both or what I said above
[23:51:30] <wjp> both will work
[23:51:40] <sethion> ok. I'll just try that, then. thanks!
[23:52:01] <-- sethion has left IRC ()
[23:54:25] <wjp> I should go to bed
[23:54:29] <wjp> g'night
[23:54:42] <-- wjp has left IRC (Leaving)