#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 23 Apr 2002 (GMT)

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[07:20:54] <wjp> hi
[07:22:17] <Darke> Hi.
[07:29:31] * Darke hops off to try his new X configure script. If I don't return soon, you can bet I've broken something. <grin>
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[07:47:47] <Darke> ReHi.
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[07:49:37] * Darke thinks shpdisp & co. look _much_ better in something higher then 8bit colour.
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[08:42:18] * sb-x hugs exultbot.
[08:42:18] <sb-x> hi
[08:42:53] * exultbot steps away from sb-x
[08:43:35] * sb-x sits in the corner.
[08:44:57] * sb-x plays with estudio.
[08:51:41] <Darke> Hi.
[08:52:55] <sb-x> do you really need exult_studio.glade to be in your data dir?
[08:54:33] <sb-x> the FAQ says that
[08:54:40] <Darke> Umm... maybe? I don't know, I haven't touched estudio in quite some time. <grin>
[08:55:24] <wjp> you don't need it there, but it is one of the default locations it looks in
[08:56:25] <sb-x> so it does need the file to work?
[08:56:34] <wjp> yes
[08:56:37] <sb-x> ok
[08:56:56] <sb-x> i have it so i guess thats not whats causing crashes
[08:57:08] <wjp> if you have an older version it could
[09:48:11] <sb-x> the opl/3 patches for playmidi sound really bad sometimes :)
[09:49:54] <sb-x> but then again, some songs sound strange if i use the sb patches instead
[09:50:44] <Darke> Curious.
[09:52:21] <Darke> BTW sb-x, I'm actually sitting on KDE3 at the moment, it's exceedingly spritely when compiled from scratch... providing I'm not compiling half my dev invironment on the same machine, as I'm trying to use it. <grin>
[09:52:38] <Darke> s/invironment/environment/
[09:53:33] <sb-x> oooh spritely
[09:53:58] <sb-x> What do you think of it? How does it compare to KDE2? Why did they make a KDE3?
[09:54:52] <sb-x> I'm looking for "they decided KDE2 was a failure and released KDE3 to fix it"
[09:56:21] <Darke> The gui itself appears to be more stable. I can stuff around with adding buttons/extension panels, fiddling with window frames and such, without worring about things randomly dying (like kpanel) on me.
[09:56:52] <Darke> AFAIK, the only reason they released kde3, is that qt3 was coming out, and they wanted everything to be kept in sync with it.
[09:57:58] <sb-x> Good to know, if I decide to get it, but I'll probably stick with my WM.
[09:58:23] <sb-x> My WM has gotten me through it all. Good times and bad. :-)
[09:58:25] * sb-x shrugs.
[10:01:01] <sb-x> Aaah... I still don't get why the timidity patch directory is under /opt/kde/share/apps/kmidi/config on my system.
[10:01:30] * sb-x makes a symbolic link.
[10:02:37] <sb-x> And it's compiled by default to use the xaw interface.
[10:03:08] <sb-x> Not only is that an odd place to put it, but if someone gets out their Slackware disc to see if timidity is on it, they may not think to look in the KDE packages dir for it.
[10:03:13] * Darke points out that gentoo linux doesn't have a /usr/local/include. He had to make a symlink for ./configure to work properly for pentagram. He's still not sure why it wasn't hunting in the right directory, since he's sure set the values correctly.
[10:03:26] <Darke> Weird.
[10:03:38] <sb-x> heh heh
[10:03:48] <sb-x> Does Gentoo use /usr/local for much?
[10:04:35] <sb-x> I assume since the standard behaviour is to auto-download packages and to make/install them from source, it would probably use /usr for that
[10:04:55] <Darke> Almost nothing. There's precicely 36k worth of files in mine.
[10:05:18] <Darke> Yep. <grin> It's slow, but it certainly does help with the speed of things.
[10:07:33] <sb-x> $ df -h /usr/local
[10:07:42] <sb-x> sh: df -h /usr/local: No such file or directory
[10:07:47] <sb-x> Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
[10:07:47] <sb-x> /dev/hda6 5.5G 1.4G 3.8G 27% /usr/local
[10:07:49] <sb-x> heh
[10:08:38] * sb-x probably didn't need to split everything into so many filesystems.
[10:08:45] <Darke> Hmm... that's quite a bit. <grin>
[10:09:35] <sb-x> everything is in there thats not installed from a slackware package, and that doesn't go in /opt
[10:10:12] <sb-x> /opt used to by a symlink to /usr/local but not its a symlink to /usr/local/opt
[10:10:20] <sb-x> s/by/be
[10:10:28] <sb-x> s/not/now/
[10:11:21] <sb-x> But the Slackware creator himself suggests just dumping everything into one giant partition. :-)
[10:11:48] * Darke does that. <grin> Or almost.
[10:13:03] * Darke makes four partitions with each installation 1) boot 2) swap 3) root 4) data (usually /home). It's just 'easier' in the long run. <grin>
[10:13:50] <sb-x> What about /var?
[10:14:01] <sb-x> My /tmp is a symlink to /var/tmp.
[10:14:55] <Darke> It's on /. Under gentoo, it uses tmpfs, so I don't need a /tmp partition. <grin>
[10:15:41] * sb-x has to go for now... lightning...
[10:15:46] <sb-x> -_-
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[11:08:43] * Darke will BBL. Bye!
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[11:30:49] <sb-x> hello again
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[11:33:09] <Darke> Hello.
[11:35:57] <sb-x> hello again
[11:36:26] <sb-x> whats tmpfs?
[11:36:52] <wjp> a ramdisk-like fs
[11:36:58] <Darke> Apparently a dynamic ram tmpfile system.
[11:37:20] <sb-x> you need a lot of RAM for that then huh?
[11:37:25] <Darke> s/tmpfile system/tmp (file system)/
[11:38:12] * sb-x remembers using ramdisks in DOS.
[11:38:15] <Darke> Nope. It's not even using 2Meg at the moment, and it never used more then about 18 Meg the entire time I was installing everything.
[11:38:49] <sb-x> i should probably clean out my tmp dir then
[11:39:08] <sb-x> it's using 15M
[11:39:13] <Darke> By default it's set at a max of about 64Meg, IIRC. And it actually uses virtual memory as well, so stuff not touched, gets swapped.
[11:54:45] <sb-x> chunks are just collections of tiles and shapes correct?
[11:55:03] <sb-x> i mean, a chunk that you grab from the studio
[11:55:09] <sb-x> not a chunk as a unit of measurement
[11:55:58] <sb-x> because if i put a chunk on the map, it also contains shapes that i can move around and delete
[11:56:59] <sb-x> hmm, actually it's all shapes... the tile images are in the shapes file too
[11:59:48] <Darke> The only mention of 'chunk' in the terms section of the studio docs is to refer to 16x16 tiles.
[12:00:44] <sb-x> yeah
[12:01:08] <sb-x> this would be easier if the groups list didn't cause a crash :)
[12:01:28] <Darke> Umm... yeah, it would. <grin>
[12:01:54] * sb-x is rebuilding Skara Brae.
[12:02:51] <sb-x> it's interesting to see how sometimes the designers didn't bother to put tiles under shapes like walls
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[12:03:08] <sb-x> on those chunks, when you delete the walls they have glowing tiles under them
[12:03:32] * Darke thinks there's _probably_ a reason they didn't bother. *grin*
[12:06:09] * sb-x nods.
[12:06:41] * Darke could _really_ get used to this Anti-aliasing stuff...
[12:06:49] <sb-x> screen me!
[12:06:51] <sb-x> uh
[12:07:02] <sb-x> i mean... what's it look like? :)
[12:07:20] <sb-x> you mean something QT3 does?
[12:08:00] <Darke> All fuzzy and cute and inoffensive like, rather then the nice straight 'nomrmal' font. <grin>
[12:08:49] * sb-x just noticed if you switch the studio to edit terrain mode, all the chunks in the game switch to their standard terrain/shapes even if you've edited them.
[12:08:52] <sb-x> ooh
[12:08:55] * Darke considers if he could locate _how_ to take a screenshot, he might consider showing you. <grin>
[12:09:00] <sb-x> KDE2 didn't do it?
[12:09:18] <sb-x> it's okay
[12:09:25] <sb-x> i use import from imagemagick
[12:09:57] <sb-x> but when i try to take a png shot it's corrupted
[12:10:22] <Darke> It did, but it really wasn't as nice, and it was very slow. Possibly because it was precompiled, but still. I have a compile (as root) going on in the background, and the system only freezes up for a second or two, rarely.
[12:11:05] <sb-x> cool
[12:11:18] <sb-x> if im compiling it slows the system for a lot more then a second
[12:11:25] <sb-x> that may be due to my slow processor
[12:11:29] <sb-x> :|
[12:12:35] * sb-x just crashed exult.
[12:12:37] <Darke> The machine I'm sitting on at the moment is a 800Mhz duron. It... err... was my fileserver.
[12:14:19] <sb-x> What kind of files did you serve?
[12:15:15] <Darke> Nothing really. The only thing of it was it held my copies of Suse 7.2 and 7.3 and was setup as my webgateway.
[12:16:21] <sb-x> oh
[12:16:34] * sb-x recompiles exult.cc to not use SDL parachute.
[12:28:36] * Darke 's entire system takes up only 1.2Gig. He remembers his 'base' SuSE system was about that size. There might be something to this 'build from scratch' thing other then speed.
[12:29:19] <sb-x> not including your data of course
[12:30:45] <Darke> Of course, I'm only including the root tree. No /home, /mount, /mnt (or any other spelling of it), nor even packages (I've got about 500Meg of gzip/bzip files).
[12:32:35] <Darke> The only things I don't have are currently lyx (document processor), apache, xmms (I never really used it) and possibly one or two other small programs.
[12:32:54] <Darke> Oh, and sendmail too.
[12:34:59] <Darke> And I've had exactly one compile/link error, `memprof`, which wilst it would be useful it's not essential. <grin>
[12:35:59] <sb-x> memprof?
[12:36:16] <Darke> A memory profiling tool. Looking for leaks and such in programs.
[12:36:43] <armav> what exactly is a memory leak?
[12:37:46] <Darke> At simplest, it's when your program is saying 'this is my bit of memory!' but not being nice and giving it back once it's finished with it.
[12:38:16] <sb-x> hehe
[12:38:34] <sb-x> hey don't blame the program, it's the developer's fault! :)
[12:39:05] <Darke> Oh, yeah. For reference, `ghex` (a gnome hex editor) can't handle files of 1Gig in size.
[12:39:23] * sb-x writes it down. "Thanks"
[12:39:26] * Darke can't understand _why_. <innocentgrin>
[12:39:47] <sb-x> Eh, so your completely converted from suse to gentoo?
[12:41:08] <Darke> Not at the moment. I've still got my main machine on it's last legs with SuSE, and If I plug the other harddrive back into this machine (it's in there, just unplugged from power&data), I've converted this machine back to SuSE. <grin>
[12:41:47] <Darke> But for practical purposes. I'll start installing gentoo on my main machine in the next two days, and if it works as nicely on it, as it has on this one, then I'm probably converted. <grin>
[12:43:18] <sb-x> Why is your first hd unplugged?
[12:44:17] <Darke> Because it's got data and active partitions on it, which I didn't want to accidentally fdisk or mkfs when I was installing gentoo. <grin> That, and if gentoo didn't work, it would be quick and painless to revert to SuSE.
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[12:45:18] <sb-x> Does your win box still exist?
[12:46:17] <Darke> I've got a windows box, but it looks like the mobo has either died, or is on it's last legs. And I haven't gotten around to seeing exactly what the problem is.
[12:48:35] <sb-x> Do you really need it?
[12:49:34] <Darke> Only for the occasional game.
[12:51:45] <sb-x> same
[12:52:26] <sb-x> slackware can be installed very minimally if required
[12:54:05] <sb-x> Aah
[12:54:14] <sb-x> placing shapes can be so difficult
[13:11:07] * Darke places a sb-x, then a couple more, then sets them all on beserk combat.
[13:13:07] <sb-x> hmm
[13:13:16] <sb-x> been there done that :)
[13:13:33] <sb-x> what's more exciting is building the perfect roof!
[13:13:36] * sb-x looks excited.
[13:15:12] * sb-x looks frustrated.
[13:16:20] * sb-x goes berserk and destroys his roof with the help of his clones.
[13:20:18] * Darke creates a perfect roof and taunts sb-x with it.
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[13:21:18] <sb-x> I really would be impressed; this is also difficult.
[13:21:29] <sb-x> (finding the appropriate shapes)
[13:23:58] * Darke snickers. He's not surprised.
[13:25:32] <sb-x> maybe the doctor will improve this part of it
[13:27:30] * sb-x now has lower right corner built (5 shapes).
[13:27:38] <sb-x> slate roof
[13:29:55] <sb-x> different parts of the roof seem to be in different shapes
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[13:35:04] <sb-x> finally getting somewhere
[13:41:56] <sb-x> we now have a complete roof
[13:42:02] <sb-x> and a refurbished... structure
[13:43:09] <Darke> Yay!
[13:43:15] <sb-x> It has conservative artwork facing the entryway, and a table with two chairs. Modern windows provide light from the west and east. It could be used as a home or office.
[13:43:18] <sb-x> hehe
[13:43:35] <sb-x> indeed :P now watch it disappear when i don't figure out how to save it
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[13:48:01] <Colourless> hi
[13:48:39] <sb-x> Hi.
[13:49:08] <Darke> Hi.
[13:56:00] <sb-x> when I reload the game, the shapes i placed are overlapping the original shapes of the chunk
[13:57:17] <sb-x> but i had used ctrl-d on the original shapes
[13:59:07] <Darke> sb-x: If you're really curious, this is what my kde desktop looks like at the moment: http://everest.fit.qut.edu.au/~n2125242/snapshot1.png <grin>
[13:59:21] * Darke had someone else ask what kde3 looked like too. <grin>
[14:04:57] <sb-x> Impressive.
[14:05:12] <sb-x> CenterICQ eh? Does it communicate with ICQ2001b clients?
[14:05:41] <sb-x> direct connect
[14:06:14] <Darke> Yep. It can go through the servers, but that's unrelyable.
[14:06:41] <Colourless> sp :-)
[14:06:50] <Darke> (For obvious reasons of course, non-'official' clients aren't making them money through advertising...)
[14:07:58] <sb-x> most of the direct connect problems come if the win user has the option checked to not allow connections from older clients
[14:08:07] * Darke thinks the AA-letter rendering is a little fuzzy on the exult page. But most of the fonts aren't too bad.
[14:08:20] <sb-x> It works well with the bold font.
[14:08:48] <Colourless> well gee, I don't think the advertising really works even with people with the official clients
[14:08:56] <Darke> Most of my problems have been exclusively with the linux clients.
[14:09:05] <Colourless> the fonts on the exult page seem a little 'fat'
[14:09:20] <Darke> <nod> They look like all bold fonts.
[14:10:18] <Colourless> Windows XP cleartype looks better even though it's not meant for crts :-)
[14:10:41] <Darke> It happens too on the 'internal' pages: http://everest.fit.qut.edu.au/~n2125242/snapshot3.png
[14:11:27] <sb-x> it's easier to read
[14:11:53] <sb-x> Hmm, scroll down that page and I've added a new comment. :-)
[14:15:54] <Darke> It looks much 'fuzzier' on the larger fonts. On the smaller fonts, it looks better IMHO. http://everest.fit.qut.edu.au/~n2125242/snapshot6.png
[14:17:03] <sb-x> those are some wild colors :)
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[14:18:06] <Colourless> why does your the background of your exult pages have so much dithering?
[14:18:21] * Darke has had almost exactly those colours for his dev environment, since he started coding in C with DJGPP+RHIDE, all those years ago. <grin> For some unknown reason, he likes them.
[14:19:05] <Darke> Dithering? Where? I'm running in 16bit colour, since my backup TNT video card can't handle this res as 24bit.
[14:19:16] <Colourless> ah ok. that is probably it :-)
[14:19:28] <Colourless> your browser is automatically dithering the image to 16 bit
[14:19:33] <sb-x> Darke: I like them too, but that doesn't mean they aren't wild. :)
[14:20:22] * sb-x is in 16bit too.
[14:20:25] <Colourless> no, so what in that snapshot6 am i meant to be looking at?
[14:20:38] <Darke> Until today, I had been running it in 8bit. <grin> shpdisp and co. all worked, they looked a little ugly, but much better then I expected.
[14:21:11] <Darke> Big bold fonts, vs small bold fonts. The big ones look 'fuzzier'.
[14:21:26] <Colourless> those little ones aren't antialiased :-)
[14:22:10] <Darke> They should be, since it's turned on globally. Hmm...
[14:22:25] <Colourless> only the fonts in Konqueror are beind aa'd
[14:23:46] <sb-x> ouch
[14:23:52] <sb-x> you failed me Darke
[14:24:13] * Darke looks innocent. He didn't do nothin! <grin>
[14:24:50] * Darke admits he pressed an 'Accept' button, but that's _all_!
[14:26:49] <sb-x> It's not working anymore
[14:26:57] <sb-x> the DCC
[14:27:09] <Darke> Weird.
[14:27:27] <sb-x> you failed me yet again Darke
[14:27:59] * Darke clicked on 'accept'. As far as he knows, that's the only option to choose.
[14:28:15] <sb-x> do you know what I do to people who fail me?
[14:28:35] <Colourless> well, i know what the guardian does... but since you aren't him... i don't know
[14:28:45] * sb-x gets out his potions.
[14:28:58] * Darke ooohs at completely useless translucent menus.
[14:29:11] * sb-x brings out a cauldron.
[14:29:46] * sb-x plugs the cauldron in and a gas powered flame erupts from the bottom.
[14:30:21] * sb-x pours the contents of potion 1 into the cauldron.
[14:30:31] <Darke> That's just cheesy. <grin>
[14:30:56] * sb-x pours the contents of potion 2 into the cauldron.
[14:31:14] * sb-x pours the contents of potion 7 into the cauldron.
[14:31:30] * sb-x hands Darke potion 5.
[14:31:39] * sb-x mixes the contents of the cauldron.
[14:31:41] <Colourless> carrot juice?
[14:31:57] <Colourless> (in potion 5?) :-)
[14:32:06] <sb-x> i just needed him to hold that so i could use the mixer
[14:32:17] * sb-x sits in a chair and watches contents of the cauldron boil.
[14:32:31] * sb-x mixes it some more.
[14:32:32] * Darke wonders what potion 5 is.
[14:32:47] * sb-x walks around in random directions.
[14:32:55] * sb-x looks in his crystal ball.
[14:33:09] * sb-x writes some mysterious entries in his journal.
[14:33:26] * sb-x walks around in random directions.
[14:33:38] * sb-x goes back to the cauldron and sits in the chair.
[14:33:47] <Darke> Curious. You can turn _on_ menu translucency whilst your windows are 'running', but you can't turn it off, whilst they're running, you have to close the window and reopen it.
[14:34:25] * sb-x puts a translucent menu into the cauldron.
[14:34:29] * Darke wonders if we should ban sb-x from playing ultima 7.
[14:34:50] <Colourless> i think he's stuck on the Lab Work schedule
[14:34:50] * sb-x turns off the cauldron and sifts some of the liquid inside into a small vial.
[14:35:16] * sb-x goes to the door.
[14:35:26] * sb-x is murdered by unknown individuals.
[14:35:35] * sb-x walks over his corpse to the workbench.
[14:35:41] * sb-x writes in his journal.
[14:35:54] * sb-x gives his journal to Colourless.
[14:36:24] * Colourless burns the journal...
[14:36:27] * sb-x goes outside to the garden and pours the contents of the vial onto his flowers.
[14:36:35] * sb-x smells the roses.
[14:36:40] * sb-x smiles and goes inside.
[14:36:43] * sb-x looks at Darke.
[14:36:47] <sb-x> Your still here?!?
[14:37:03] * Darke looks innocent.
[14:37:12] * sb-x goes to his cupboard and gets some trinkets for Darke.
[14:38:09] * sb-x gives Darke a jewel and an Orb of the Moons and an hourglass.
[14:39:01] <sb-x> Was I going to do something?
[14:40:16] <sb-x> oh yeah I was trying to DCC Darke a file...
[14:43:55] <Darke> Weird. It 'Accepts', then half a second later fails.
[14:44:22] <sb-x> hmm
[14:44:26] * sb-x shakes his head.
[14:44:33] <sb-x> You've failed me once more!
[14:44:44] <sb-x> Do you know what I do to people who fail me Darke?
[14:45:20] <Darke> You keep talking and talking and talking and talking to them?
[14:46:03] * sb-x nods.
[14:46:03] <sb-x> I waste their time.
[14:46:31] <sb-x> But next time you won't be so lucky!
[14:47:28] * sb-x puts his hands on his waist and looks to the sky, letting out a big, evil laugh. "Tee hee hee hee!"
[14:48:29] * Darke thinks that neither sounds big, nor evil.
[14:48:54] <sb-x> <-- tired and can not be held responsible for his actions today
[14:49:05] <sb-x> yeah but it's the best I can do
[14:49:19] <Darke> Something in the range of "Mwahahaha!" or "Ha ha HA ha HA!" sounds bigger and eviler.
[14:49:57] <sb-x> Mwaheheeheee
[14:49:58] <Darke> (is tired) That's the excuse I use, but they don't believe me, so they won't believe you either. <grin>
[14:50:03] <sb-x> ?logs
[14:50:03] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3
[14:50:07] <sb-x> drats!
[14:50:33] * sb-x sits in the corner and pretends he didn't try to threaten Darke and waste everyone's time.
[14:52:59] <sb-x> Darke: I attempted to upload the screenshot to a server, but my friend who pays for the server account hasn't been paying for it.
[14:53:30] <Darke> Ahh.
[14:53:32] <sb-x> It worked
[14:53:43] <sb-x> You have done well Darke.
[14:54:10] * sb-x gives Darke the Hoe of Destruction, and a set of Magic Armour, and some carrots.
[14:56:01] * Darke nibbles on the carrots. He has not much use for the others.
[14:56:58] <Darke> BTW, nice... err... 'house'.
[14:57:15] <sb-x> house or office
[14:57:36] <sb-x> it's got a professional tone
[14:59:13] <sb-x> here is another picture
[15:00:00] <Darke> Oooh. And a roof!
[15:00:39] <sb-x> Yeah, the skeleton was still trying to get in so I climbed out the side window to take that picture.
[15:01:04] <sb-x> Once I'm confident I can edit things and keep them there, I'll plant some grass outside.
[15:01:25] <sb-x> Remove the weeds and shrubs, hammer down the stumps, and replace the trees.
[15:02:14] <sb-x> Put a sign outside welcoming anyone who gets over to the island to visit me.
[15:02:44] <sb-x> ...might have to build a bridge to the mainland
[15:03:01] <sb-x> there's a bridge in Jhelom I can use as a design template
[15:03:39] <Colourless> of you could make it manually out of individual shapes
[15:04:23] <sb-x> Yeah but without a design template, I'll end up building a staircase.
[15:04:42] <sb-x> <-- no building skills
[15:05:45] <Colourless> hmm. it's not exactly difficult. just lay out a series of large flat shapes next to each other (at lift 2 or 3)
[15:07:11] <sb-x> it's gotta have style
[15:07:30] <sb-x> nobody wants to come to the ghost infested island if the bridge looks like a giant board :)
[15:07:56] <sb-x> You sound like an interested party.
[15:08:00] * sb-x hands Colourless some files.
[15:08:19] <Colourless> hmm,
[15:08:23] <Colourless> i don't know 'why' that didn't work
[15:08:29] <Colourless> just a second
[15:08:39] <Colourless> try again
[15:08:53] <Colourless> grrr
[15:08:59] <Colourless> it's auto rejecting it
[15:09:03] <sb-x> it doesn't look like it's failing on my end
[15:09:13] <sb-x> queued
[15:09:43] <Colourless> does this: [00:38] DCC Send from sb-x rejected (skarabrae-hohum.pcx, file type ignored)
[15:10:05] <sb-x> i can rename it
[15:10:28] <Colourless> try now
[15:10:54] <Colourless> ok :-)
[15:11:13] <sb-x> ok
[15:11:48] <Colourless> you still have a while to go yet :-)
[15:12:08] <sb-x> i think that guy standing outside the building was offering to help
[15:13:03] <Colourless> hehe
[15:16:07] <sb-x> the way the map is stored is so stranged
[15:16:10] <sb-x> strange
[15:21:16] <sb-x> when you delete the shapes in a chunk and put new shapes there(walls), shouldn't the ones you deleted stay gone and the ones added stay there
[15:21:18] <sb-x> ?
[15:28:26] <sb-x> do i have to create a "New" chunk if i want to add terrain that will stay the way i put it?
[15:28:57] <Colourless> well to remove terrain you need to change the chunk
[15:29:21] <Colourless> if you use a chunk with nothing in it, you can just build whatever you want
[15:29:45] <Colourless> or you could build on to the frame work provided by an existing chunk
[15:30:11] <sb-x> do different parts of the world share the same chunk?
[15:30:31] <Colourless> yeah
[15:30:38] <sb-x> if i were to pull in a chunk from estudio and alter it, would it be altered at the spot it was originally?
[15:30:46] <Colourless> yeah it is
[15:30:52] <sb-x> :O
[15:30:55] <sb-x> so I need a new chunk
[15:31:02] <Colourless> it depends
[15:31:10] <sb-x> or dup?
[15:31:21] <Colourless> if you use chunk editor mode than it modify the existing chunk
[15:32:19] <Colourless> what are you attempting to do?
[15:33:04] <sb-x> but if i dont edit it, and I just add delete and shapes (like i did with the building), when the game is restarted that area is either a mixed jumble of overlapping shapes, or its back to its original form
[15:33:11] * sb-x is attempting to restore Skara Brae.
[15:33:36] <Colourless> deleting shapes that have been defined in the chunk wont work
[15:34:12] <Colourless> you need to change the chunk (drag the new chunk from the window) to the one that you want
[15:34:42] <Colourless> as long as you don't use the terrain editor mode, you can add extra shapes without problems
[15:34:56] <sb-x> the extra shapes will get saved in gamedat or patch?
[15:35:08] <sb-x> i can delete the original shapes of the chunk?
[15:35:23] <sb-x> for example if i pull a desert chunk out but dont want the rocks
[15:35:46] <Colourless> no, that's not really possible, unless you create a new chunk
[15:36:10] <sb-x> then, if i add extra shapes, the chunk will end up having the extras and the original
[15:36:34] <Colourless> yeah
[15:38:02] <sb-x> So I should make a new chunk... does Dup make a new chunk that I can edit safely?
[15:38:34] <Colourless> it should i think
[15:39:07] <sb-x> it seems to shift the chunk numbers to the right
[15:39:12] <sb-x> i hope that doesn't screw anything up
[15:41:32] <sb-x> shift+click doesnt work if exult isn't focused
[15:46:42] * wjp should go home
[15:46:44] <wjp> bye
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[15:51:53] <sb-x> how do you find a chunk that is at a certain xy position?
[15:52:10] <sb-x> like, how would i go about finding the chunk for the building that i made so I can duplicate it and do it proper
[15:52:42] <Colourless> it should have the chunk number written in the corner of the chunk in exult
[15:53:06] <sb-x> yeah, if im there i can look at that... but its black with no background
[15:53:18] <sb-x> i guess i put some bright terrain behind it :)
[15:53:24] <Colourless> what do you mean?
[15:53:35] <sb-x> i cant read the black numbers
[15:54:02] <Colourless> hmmm
[15:55:03] <sb-x> Actually, the Skara Brae chunks probably aren't used anywhere else are they? I could just edit their terrain without copying them.
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[15:57:07] <Colourless> proably not
[15:57:08] <Colourless> hi
[15:57:25] <Fingolfin> yo
[15:57:26] <Darke> Hi.
[15:57:36] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[15:57:51] <sb-x> Hi.
[15:59:38] <sb-x> Where will estudio put the chunks I edit?
[16:00:02] <Colourless> patch
[16:00:07] <sb-x> Does it just save them back to their original file? I have no patch dir
[16:00:53] <sb-x> they are in ifix and shapes locations are in ireg?
[16:02:24] <Colourless> it wont save back. it needs a patch dir
[16:03:02] <sb-x> but if it were going to save, it would save to ifix files?
[16:03:28] <sb-x> U7IFIXnn = flex file with fixed items list
[16:04:42] <Colourless> maybe....
[16:05:24] <sb-x> i mean when i use terrain edit on the chunk
[16:05:38] <Colourless> it might, i just don't know :-)
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[16:06:05] <wjp> hi
[16:06:07] <sb-x> thanks
[16:06:22] <Colourless> hi
[16:06:25] <sb-x> wb wjp
[16:07:02] <Fingolfin> hi wjp
[16:07:07] * Fingolfin has a BIG problem
[16:07:23] <Fingolfin> he finished WoT #3 but doesn't yet have #4 ! ARGH
[16:07:28] <wjp> oh no!
[16:07:36] <wjp> how could you let that happen!? ;-)
[16:11:39] * sb-x moves u7ireg49 out of gamedat and into patch and watches everything in skara brae disappear.
[16:11:47] <sb-x> No problems here!
[16:15:41] <Colourless> iregs are meant to be in gamedat btw
[16:15:48] <Fingolfin> wjp: dunno, it's very hard for me, though. kind of if you are on drugs and you don't get resupplies for days, you suffer =)
[16:16:05] <Colourless> to save the changes to chunks you need to use the exult studio save map option
[16:16:11] <wjp> Fingolfin: yeah, I know the feeling :-)
[16:16:54] <wjp> the ireg files aren't loaded from patch. (Only from initgame at the start of the game or from gamedat/savegames)
[16:17:16] <sb-x> wjp: ????
[16:17:40] <wjp> ?
[16:17:47] <sb-x> wjp: have you been using serpent venom?
[16:17:58] <wjp> how'd you know? :-)
[16:18:10] <sb-x> wjp: Fingolfin said it's like your on drugs and dont get supplies :)
[16:18:19] <sb-x> heh
[16:19:28] <sb-x> wjp, Colourless: (iregnn files) yeah i figured that out now... but with a patch dir its not showing my roof and walls that were saved in the gamedat
[16:20:13] <sb-x> but its showing the other shapes i put there
[16:22:47] <sb-x> and i also wanted to undo my changes that got saved to gamedat
[16:23:16] <sb-x> so thats why i tried moving it from gamedat to patch
[16:30:30] <sb-x> ctrl-d doesn't work when exult is not focused
[16:31:09] <Colourless> eh, yeah :-)
[16:31:32] <Colourless> does this surprise you?
[16:32:03] <sb-x> it doesn't because shift-click didn't work either
[16:32:16] <sb-x> but regular click does
[16:33:03] <Colourless> how can you click in the window if it isn't focused/
[16:34:08] <sb-x> with the left mouse button
[16:34:25] <Colourless> doesnt' the left mouse button then focus the window?
[16:35:07] <sb-x> it focuses the window and does the left click action
[16:35:34] <Colourless> aye :-)
[16:39:37] <sb-x> it might be helpful to have the screen lose colour and a message appear when you load a game
[16:41:09] <Colourless> dosn't it bring up the red screen?
[16:41:41] <sb-x> it didn't for 10-20 seconds
[16:42:00] <sb-x> hmm
[16:42:08] <sb-x> 8-16 seconds :)
[16:44:06] <sb-x> who else works on estudio besides drcode?
[16:50:04] <Darke> Unless you count adding the occasional using std::; directive as 'working on estudio', not me. <grin>
[16:51:11] <sb-x> Ah.
[16:51:24] * sb-x thought Darke fell asleep already.
[16:52:07] * Darke is hanging on, barely. <grin>
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[16:55:09] <sb-x> exult_studio: shapelst.cc:511: void Shape_chooser::goto_index(int): Assertion `index >= 0 && index < total' failed.
[16:58:38] * Darke disappears off into the ether. Night!
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[17:07:54] <sb-x> when the avatar tries to find a path it freezes the game
[17:08:23] <Colourless> more details?
[17:08:30] <sb-x> so if you just right click in the wrong spot, the game freezes and puts a bunch of "... but failed to find a path" messages to stdout
[17:09:35] <sb-x> and also Couldn't find path for Avatar.
[17:13:11] <sb-x> oh no, with the patch loaded in exult studio, all the chunks not in the area of the patch are empty
[17:13:21] <sb-x> !
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[17:41:41] <sb-x> were the "catch up phrases" in the original u7?
[17:41:49] <Colourless> no
[17:42:12] <sb-x> who thought them up?
[17:42:28] <Colourless> jeff as far as I know
[17:42:57] <sb-x> oh
[17:43:10] <sb-x> nice
[17:43:10] <sb-x> thanks
[17:43:19] <Colourless> why?
[17:43:36] <sb-x> i guess there's no reason they shouldn't be hardcoded
[17:43:58] <sb-x> well, unless maybe someone is making a game where the characters just wouldnt talk like that
[17:43:58] <sb-x> in that case it's a good idea
[17:46:08] <wjp> translations, too
[17:46:45] * sb-x nods.
[17:47:40] <sb-x> i just found out that my edited files went in working directory/<PATCH> when i didnt have a patch directory set :)
[17:48:11] <wjp> hmm, not good :-)
[17:48:45] <sb-x> telling me that it can't save, or telling me where it saved might be better
[17:48:56] <sb-x> but this is good because i may not have lost my work
[17:49:09] <sb-x> although, i've since repeated my work so it doesn't matter
[17:53:25] <wjp> are you writing all these quirks/bugs down somewhere, btw?
[17:53:30] <wjp> I'm sure Jeff would love to hear them
[17:53:59] <sb-x> uh
[17:54:10] <sb-x> I'm sure he would. :\
[17:54:33] <sb-x> he could look at this log, but I have more >:)
[17:54:33] <sb-x> should I email him or the list?
[17:54:46] <sb-x> i would put serious bugs in bugtracker if i can reproduce them
[17:55:31] <sb-x> also should i email him suggestions for estudio or put them under that thread on the website?
[17:55:54] <wjp> I'd probably pick the ML
[17:56:10] <wjp> (for both bugs and suggestions)
[17:56:47] <wjp> forum would work too, probably, but the forum tends to add lots of noise to actual message :-)
[17:57:02] <sb-x> okay
[17:57:34] * sb-x will do this if he manages to make a list!
[17:58:49] <sb-x> i might be too tired now :)
[18:35:53] <sb-x> ?date
[18:35:53] <exultbot> It is now Tue Apr 23 18:35:53 2002 (GMT).
[18:36:36] <wjp> a.k.a. 20:36 local time
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[20:10:43] <Dark-Star> Hi
[20:10:52] <Colourless> hi
[20:11:10] <wjp> hi
[20:16:54] <sb-x> hi
[20:29:04] <Fingolfin> lo
[21:32:40] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[21:32:40] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/
[21:32:40] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Tue Apr 2 07:38:10 2002
[21:35:30] <Colourless> :-)
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[22:16:51] <wjp> hi
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