#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 23 Dec 2001 (GMT)

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[00:39:39] <co> hi.
[00:39:44] <wjp> hi
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[06:07:11] * Darke greetingsbows.
[06:09:09] <Wumpus> oh
[06:09:18] * Wumpus notes recent jsf email about "beta status"
[06:09:49] * Wumpus considers inflicting another batch of bugs on the system... problem is, the ones i didn't do last time, are mainly because they require more work on my part (to check etc)
[06:17:15] * Darke grins.
[06:17:36] <Wumpus> and with all these fixes, i keep having to recompile, too ;-p
[06:18:27] * Wumpus notes string in usecode: Save game, and report to Brendann NOW!
[06:18:29] <Wumpus> (??!)
[06:18:54] <Darke> <grin> U7, SI or U8?
[06:18:58] <Wumpus> SI
[06:19:37] <Darke> Easter egg?
[06:19:59] <Wumpus> I doubt it
[06:20:26] <Wumpus> might be whimsical debugging stuff... the nearby strings suggest it might be
[06:20:48] <Darke> Would make sense.
[06:36:59] <Wumpus> bah, time to move onwards
[06:37:05] --- Wumpus is now known as WumpuSI
[06:48:04] <WumpuSI> ehe cool
[06:48:18] <WumpuSI> the eye of the moon shows somethign else (not the planets) after the Wall of Lights bit
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[07:51:19] <WumpuSI> hehe
[07:51:23] <WumpuSI> the ice slab is way fast :)
[09:39:33] <Kirben> Interesting, just found a site that archives web sites. Goes right back until 1996.
[09:39:45] <Kirben> http://web.archive.org/
[09:39:59] <WumpuSI> do the Serpent Rune s in SI serve any purpose?
[09:40:01] <WumpuSI> and re all :)
[09:40:06] <WumpuSI> (was dinnering)
[09:40:36] <Kirben> no idea
[11:14:59] * Darke stirs the channel to muddy it's waters. (And, of course, to stream complaints about his hydrated puns swiftly towards him.)
[11:25:41] <Kirben> darn, cvs logs are still been delayed here.
[11:30:29] * Darke thinks SF must have lost his subscription to the cvslogs list, he hasn't gotten one in months, and has been meaning to re-subscribe.
[11:32:31] <WumpuSI> <trap> attacks statue. No effect.
[11:32:34] <WumpuSI> hmm :)
[11:37:01] <WumpuSI> hmm... something seedy with gimptool installation
[11:37:58] <WumpuSI> it doesn't honour DESTDIR for me, in spite of nadir's changes.. and i can't see why it should from Makefile
[11:38:04] * WumpuSI delves into Makefile.am
[11:40:30] <WumpuSI> oh i see, thats how he hax0red it
[11:40:56] <WumpuSI> (ugliness in exult.spec)
[11:42:20] * Darke grins and gets the impression that you have... a less then good opinion of how he altered it.
[11:43:13] <WumpuSI> *shrug* :P he just made it rather more difficult for himself than it needs to be ;-p
[11:43:30] <WumpuSI> and either forces me to use the same ugliness in debian/rules, or fix it :)
[11:46:59] * Darke grins and nods.
[11:52:47] * WumpuSI puzzles
[11:52:52] --- WumpuSI is now known as Wumpus
[11:53:06] <Wumpus> how does one go from Makefile.am to Makefile anyway? its not autoconf and its not automake, is it?
[11:54:01] <Darke> Run autogen.sh in the exult/ directory will recreate them. IIRC it's automake.
[11:54:29] <Wumpus> hmm, actually i think it may be part of configure as well, though, d'oh
[11:54:59] * Wumpus just doesn't want to upset things so that everything gets recompiled or something equally evil
[11:56:10] <Darke> It shouldn't make you recompile everything. But just try running automake in the which ever directory you need to do it in.
[11:56:19] <Wumpus> yeah that didn't work :(
[11:56:21] <Wumpus> *Shrug*
[11:56:36] <Wumpus> *fixes makefile manually, will check whether my change to Makefile.am worked later*
[11:56:41] <Darke> autoconf? <grin> Keep trying them all, until something works.
[11:56:59] <Wumpus> autoreconf didn't
[11:57:09] <Wumpus> as I said, i think its part of configure as well though :(
[11:57:31] * Darke shrugs, fair enough.
[11:59:57] <Wumpus> oh yay, it worked
[11:59:57] <Wumpus> almost
[12:00:02] <Wumpus> i just ran out of disk space ;-p
[12:00:56] <Darke> Irony?
[12:01:49] <Wumpus> hmm?
[12:01:55] <Wumpus> well it was still necessary to fix it
[12:05:42] * Darke nods. Don't worry about him, he's feeling... surreal tonight for some reason. <grin>
[12:08:18] * Wumpus suspects that this is usual
[12:08:32] * Wumpus goes on a disk space hunt
[12:10:02] * Darke is just feeling more surreal then usual then.
[12:11:12] <Wumpus> hmm 97 megs of email.... fun fun fun
[12:11:25] <Wumpus> 29 megs of it compressed :P
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[12:19:08] * Darke ReHi's, looks like yet another KDE ideosyncracy.
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[12:23:30] <Darke> Hi wjp.
[12:23:30] <wjp> Makefile.am + automake -> Makefile.in
[12:23:36] <wjp> Makefile.in + configure -> Makefile
[12:23:40] <wjp> hi :-)
[12:23:46] * Darke ahh!fluffs.
[12:24:41] <Wumpus> ahh :-)
[12:25:15] <Wumpus> wjp - any paticular reason you're leaving that "conversation bug" open? is it something you want to fix in the usecode?
[12:25:32] <wjp> hmm, no particular reason, no
[12:27:33] * wjp closes it
[12:29:01] <Wumpus> it'd be easy to fix in the usecode... just change one of the incidences of liqueur or whatever it is to liquor :-)
[12:29:11] <Darke> If anyone feels like wasting some time... <grin> http://www.warehouse23.com/basement/box/
[12:29:21] <wjp> always :-)
[12:29:39] <Darke> Wumpus: Just misspell one of them. You can't change the length of the strings without breaking things. <grin>
[12:30:00] <Wumpus> darke- yeah, i gathered as much... but sure :)
[12:30:10] <Wumpus> hehe warehouse23 is cool, yeah :)
[12:30:13] <wjp> if you shorten them you can just add spaces
[12:30:16] * Wumpus wasted entirely too much time there ages ago
[12:30:53] <wjp> what _is_ that? :-)
[12:31:05] <Darke> I've had to friends on another irc channel drop dozens of them into the channel for the past... 6 hours.
[12:31:16] <Wumpus> 8-)
[12:31:42] <Darke> wjp: Think of it as a variation of /usr/games/fortune. Except almost all the 'fortunes' are surreal mental images. <grin> Some of them are rather good.
[12:31:48] <Wumpus> do we have any documentation for the gimp plugin, hehe? :)
[12:31:57] <wjp> ok... I got one reference to back of the future
[12:32:04] <wjp> Wumpus: docuwhat? ;-)
[12:32:08] * Wumpus just fixing debian/ to include support for the exult-gimp-plugin package :)
[12:32:27] <Wumpus> (which is easy, hehe :) now that i discovered there *is* a current gimp pacakge)
[12:32:43] <wjp> oh, you mentioned something about the current solution to that gimptool thing being rather ugly?
[12:32:56] <wjp> feel free to clean it up... :-)
[12:33:03] <Wumpus> wjp- oh, its just that, unless i'm missing something, it'd be easier to do it with DESTDIR :P
[12:33:15] <Wumpus> but no, the gimptool thing is inherently inconvenient i think :-(
[12:34:32] <Wumpus> (its not the plugin stuff that could benefit, but rahter the exult.spec.in and debian/rules :)
[12:35:47] <Wumpus> and to some extent general niceness...
[12:35:54] * Wumpus de-reambles and gets on with doing something
[12:36:00] <wjp> "Muncie, Indiana".. hmm... I could swear I've seen that name somewhere the last week
[12:36:25] * Darke closes that 'box' thing and tries to concentrate upon code...
[12:36:32] <wjp> Darke: good idea :-)
[12:39:04] * Darke has started working on that annoying if(() && (!())) bug in ucxt again.
[12:40:17] <wjp> what bug is that?
[12:40:33] * Darke glares at his irc client again.
[12:40:35] * wjp vaguely remembers something about always-true conditions
[12:42:53] <Darke> <nod> That's the one. It produces code that looks like if((var0000) && (!(var0000)))) goto label_0034; Although more complicated. It only seems to show up if there is a 'complex' variable in it. As in, instead of var0000 it's (var0000 + var0001).
[12:46:14] <wjp> what's the basic method ucxt uses for expressions, btw? simulating a stack and building expressions bottom-up from that stack?
[12:48:51] <Darke> No. Currently, it splits the opcodes into chunks that are seperated by goto's and labels, so that I know, no-one is going to jump into the middle of it. It actually walks though each 'collection' of these opcodes backwards, gradually building up it's 'tree' from the pushes and pops of each expression. Perhaps an example would help. <grin>
[12:52:25] <wjp> hmm, yes, jumps would of course complicate things
[12:52:58] <Darke> `push var01; push var02; add; pop var00;` The function would find `pop var00`, then recursivly call itself (with a note it wants one 'pushed' variable returned). Then the function would find `add`, and call itself again, wanting 2 'pushed' values returned. Then the function would find `push var02` then find out if it has accumulated enough 'pushed' variables to return, which it hasn't. ...
[12:53:38] <wjp> ok, so you build it top-down
[12:54:12] <Darke> ... Then it finds `push var01` and finds that it has enough variables to return, so it does. (As it locates this 'pushed' variables, it flags them for deletion later. Dumb iterators.) And returns, and returns. And theoretically it works. <grin>
[12:54:22] * Darke nods.
[12:54:36] <wjp> function calls are just treated the same way?
[12:55:24] <Darke> Yep.
[12:56:34] * wjp doesn't really see an immediate cause for that bug
[12:56:45] <wjp> kind of weird...
[12:57:18] * wjp has to go
[12:57:20] <Darke> The problem seems to be somewhere in my 'garbage collection' algorthm. Since I can't delete iterators out from under themselves, without thinks going 'boom' I need to flag them for deletion later... and that's where things seem to give me a headache. <grin>
[12:57:31] * Darke nods. "Bye wjp."
[12:57:33] <wjp> good luck :-)
[12:57:33] <wjp> bye
[12:57:38] <Darke> Thanks. <grin>
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[12:57:42] <Wumpus> whats the minimum requried gimp version for u7shp? will 1.2.0 do?
[12:57:44] <Wumpus> hehe byee
[12:57:47] <Wumpus> oops, missed
[12:58:03] <Wumpus> darke- ooh garbage collection
[12:58:07] * Wumpus waves around his thesis
[12:58:43] * Darke aiee!fluffs and hops over panically and hides behind the couch.
[13:00:40] <Wumpus> its quiet an interesting field, in some ways :)
[13:04:43] <Wumpus> yaay
[13:04:49] <Wumpus> exult-gimp-plugin worx0ring
[13:04:50] <Darke> Interesting, yes. But I'd rather not add a fully fledged garbage collector in ucxt. <grin>
[13:04:56] <Wumpus> hehe yeah, well :-)
[13:06:31] <Darke> It might be handy for exult though... <innocentwiggle>
[13:07:14] <Wumpus> well there's libraries to do it, a nicely packaged version of the boehm weisser one... (one of *The* GCs)
[13:07:55] * Wumpus 's main area of interest is in distributed environments... single processor GC has been more or less sorted out, with just relatively minor refinements goign on now, from what i've seen... whereas distributed stuff is less well understood
[13:09:28] * Darke nods. That's the impression his lecturers were giving him.
[13:10:51] * Darke is tempted to ask you about how hairy it is... but gets the feeling we'll bore the rest of the channel to tears. <grin>
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[13:11:36] <Darkatom> hi
[13:12:06] * Darke bows, "Hello."
[13:15:33] * Wumpus yawns and waves
[13:19:20] * Wumpus uploads debs, now *three* of them :)
[13:26:25] <Darkatom> Darke
[13:26:44] <Darkatom> do you know this error?
[13:26:46] <Darkatom> SDL_paudio.c: In function `Paud_OpenAudio':
[13:26:47] <Darkatom> SDL_paudio.c:360: `BIG_ENDIAN' undeclared (first use in this function)
[13:26:47] <Darkatom> SDL_paudio.c:360: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once
[13:26:47] <Darkatom> SDL_paudio.c:360: for each function it appears in.)
[13:26:50] <Darkatom> compiling SDL
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[13:33:53] <Darkatom> I don't know the processor I'm using
[13:34:10] <Darkatom> I have only a shell account
[13:34:36] <Darkatom> I'm not root
[13:34:55] <Darke> What's the result of `uname -m -p`?
[13:35:15] * Darke will be afk for a couple of minutes.
[13:37:48] <Darkatom> ok
[13:38:03] <Darkatom> uname don't recognize -p
[13:38:22] <Darkatom> I have made an uname -m -s -n -l -r -v -a -x -u -ms
[13:38:24] <Darkatom> the result is
[13:38:40] <Darkatom> AIX anubis 1073957452 3 4 0040034A4C00 IBM,01440034A
[13:39:13] * Wumpus blinks
[13:41:05] <Darke> Try defining BIG_ENDIAN as 1 when you make SDL.
[13:41:43] <Darkatom> ok
[13:42:12] <Wumpus> darke- you recognise that? hehe
[13:42:26] <Colourless> that will either work, or die horribly :-)
[13:42:35] <Wumpus> ah, its a Guess :)
[13:43:10] <Colourless> i've no idea if darke recognizes it, but I would have said use BIG_ENDIAN=0 :-)
[13:43:41] <Colourless> again, i've no idea what that all means as well :-)
[13:44:09] <Wumpus> about the only things thats vaguely recognisable is the IBM... but i have no idea about what their hardware is like, anymore
[13:44:11] <Wumpus> :P
[13:44:17] * Darke has the faintest memory that IBM hardware is Big Endian...
[13:44:38] <Colourless> PowerPC isn't
[13:45:33] <Wumpus> sleep for me, now... will send in patch tomorrow sometime :) and more bugs :)
[13:45:51] <Wumpus> (its getting unpleasantly close to none of my bugs being open anymore :P)
[13:45:54] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("zzzz")
[13:47:50] <Darke> Do you have a file called 'endian.h' in /usr/include or somewhere abouts?
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[13:52:44] <Darke> In the following, larger digits indicate more significance. A big-endian
[13:52:44] <Darke> machine like a Pyramid or a Motorola 680?0 chip will come out to 4321. A
[13:52:44] <Darke> little-endian machine like a Vax or an Intel 80?86 chip would be 1234. Other
[13:52:44] <Darke> machines may have weird orders like 3412. A Cray will report 87654321,
[13:52:44] <Darke> an Alpha will report 12345678. If the test program works the default is
[13:52:45] <Darke> probably right.
[13:52:47] <Darke> I'm now running the test program...
[13:52:49] <Darke> (The test program ran ok.)
[13:52:51] <Darke> byteorder=4321
[13:53:09] <Darke> If we can find the hardware, we've got the values to set things to, in theory. <grin>
[13:54:13] <Colourless> big endian is stupid :-)
[13:54:27] <Colourless> really it is :-)
[13:54:37] <Colourless> little endian makes much more sense
[13:54:53] <Darke> Ok, in theory (according to the endian.h file I have). BIG_ENDIAN should be defined as... (wait for it) the order of the bytes. That is `#define BIG_ENDIAN 4321`.
[13:55:07] <Colourless> p.s. my comment before about power pc was incorrect :-)
[13:55:33] * Darke snickers.
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[14:02:30] <Fingolfin> hi
[14:02:42] * Darke bows, "Hello Fingolfin."
[14:02:59] <Colourless> hi
[14:11:46] <Darkatom> must leave
[14:11:47] <Darkatom> bye
[14:11:51] <Colourless> cya
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[14:26:54] <Darkatom> hi again
[14:27:05] * Darke grins. "Hi!"
[14:27:44] * Colourless expects a question real soon now
[14:27:59] <Darkatom> ?
[14:28:28] <Colourless> well, whenever you join, you seem to ask a question, because something else has broken with exult
[14:28:59] <Darkatom> hehe
[14:29:15] <Darkatom> I don't have any question at the moment
[15:19:51] <Darkatom> ok
[15:20:05] <Darkatom> are u still there?
[15:32:07] * Darke is sort of here. <grin>
[15:33:04] <Darkatom> Darke
[15:33:33] <Darkatom> can I paste some lines?
[15:35:53] * Darke nods.
[15:36:06] <Darkatom> ?
[15:36:16] <Colourless> he means yes
[15:36:30] <Darkatom> ok
[15:36:34] <Darke> Ooops. Yes, I mean yes.
[15:36:49] <Darkatom> ld: 0711-317 ERROR: Undefined symbol: .int Game_object::find_nearby<Egg_object>(Exult_vector<Egg_object *> &, Tile_coord, int, int, int, int, int)
[15:36:50] <Darkatom> ld: 0711-317 ERROR: Undefined symbol: .XInternAtom
[15:36:50] <Darkatom> ld: 0711-317 ERROR: Undefined symbol: .XChangeProperty
[15:36:50] <Darkatom> ld: 0711-317 ERROR: Undefined symbol: .XGetAtomName
[15:36:50] <Darkatom> ld: 0711-317 ERROR: Undefined symbol: .XGetWindowProperty
[15:36:51] <Darkatom> ld: 0711-317 ERROR: Undefined symbol: .XSendEvent
[15:36:53] <Darkatom> ld: 0711-317 ERROR: Undefined symbol: .XConvertSelection
[15:36:55] <Darkatom> ld: 0711-317 ERROR: Undefined symbol: .XQueryTree
[15:36:57] <Darkatom> ld: 0711-317 ERROR: Undefined symbol: .XFree
[15:36:59] <Darkatom> ld: 0711-317 ERROR: Undefined symbol: .XGetWindowAttributes
[15:37:01] <Darkatom> ld: 0711-345 Use the -bloadmap or -bnoquiet option to obtain more information.
[15:37:03] <Darkatom> collect2: ld returned 8 exit status
[15:37:05] <Darkatom> make: The error code from the last command is 1.
[15:37:07] <Darkatom> oops
[15:37:09] <Darkatom> sorry
[15:37:36] <Darke> Are you linking with the X lib?
[15:38:51] <Darkatom> yes
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[15:53:04] <Darkatom> what's this?
[15:53:05] <Darkatom> make: Cannot find a rule to create target combat.cc from dependencies.
[15:53:05] <Darkatom> Stop.
[15:53:05] <Darkatom> make: The error code from the last command is 1.
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[17:18:21] * Darke bows, "Must go. Sleep calling. Goodnight all."
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[17:44:23] <wjp> hi
[17:44:41] <Fingolfin> hi
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[17:53:09] <wjp> hi
[17:53:12] <Colourless> hi
[17:59:44] <wjp> hmm, looks I have to be going again...
[17:59:52] * wjp might be back soon...
[17:59:59] * wjp might not be back soon... :-)
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[20:28:22] * Colourless tries to commit something to see if email is working
[20:40:02] <Colourless> ohm it arrived!
[20:51:54] <Fingolfin|dinner> yeah I was told on #sourceforge it is supposed to be fixed now
[20:52:58] <Colourless> this is quite a back log of emails that need to be sent
[20:53:14] <Fingolfin|dinner> sigh
[20:53:16] <Fingolfin|dinner> yeah
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[21:58:53] <_Kreed_> dead as usual :P
[22:02:03] <_Kreed_> jingle bells jingle bells
[22:03:08] <Colourless> stop making noise
[22:03:40] <_Kreed_> hm..
[22:03:56] <_Kreed_> why can't i play jingle bells with my distorted overdriven guitar?
[22:04:40] <Colourless> no
[22:22:54] <-- matto has left IRC ("Play Dragon's Lair in linux - http://www.daphne-emu.com - Developers welcome :)")
[22:28:49] <-- Colourless has left IRC (Ping timeout: 180 seconds)
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[23:09:42] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("cya")
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