#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 23 Oct 2002 (GMT)

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[00:22:06] --> Kirben has joined #exult
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[00:22:24] <Dominus> greetings
[00:23:03] <Kirben> Hi
[00:59:46] --> matto has joined #exult
[01:39:20] <Dominus> artaxerxes: if you are still interested I could send you a draft of the merged Studio docs
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[01:41:33] <SB-X> Dominus
[01:41:37] <SB-X> hi
[01:41:39] <SB-X> I am interested!
[01:41:42] <Dominus> hi SB-X
[01:41:50] <Dominus> :-)
[01:42:12] <Dominus> just lurking off the channel and then suddenly coming in to get it :-)
[01:42:19] <Dominus> dcc okay?
[01:42:31] <SB-X> eh, sure
[01:42:33] <SB-X> if it works
[01:42:57] <SB-X> ah ok
[01:43:04] <Dominus> that is slow....
[01:43:16] <SB-X> :-(
[01:43:57] <SB-X> it is usually ~2600cps for me but that is slow too
[01:44:23] <Dominus> it's in html, and a very rough draft but I found some oversights of Curiosis and I need higher res picture replacements for some of the pictures in it
[01:44:35] <Dominus> and some other name for Curiosis :-)
[01:45:02] <SB-X> Curryosis
[01:45:13] <SB-X> is another name he used
[01:45:43] <Dominus> I meant more like a real life name :-)
[01:46:08] <SB-X> oh
[01:46:12] <SB-X> you could make it launch from ES
[01:46:37] <Dominus> I'm not yet putting it into cvs because I first want his permission
[01:46:47] <SB-X> did you fix typographical and name errors?
[01:47:01] <Dominus> I fixed some and created some others
[01:47:14] <SB-X> did you fix the ones you created?
[01:47:20] <SB-X> ;)
[01:47:56] <Dominus> the whole thing needs to be looked through again and made consistent with the way ES names things and consistent inside of the doc
[01:48:15] <Dominus> and that I can'T compile ES for quite some time now doesn't make it better
[01:48:25] <SB-X> file complete
[01:49:30] <SB-X> this fits nicely in docs
[01:49:54] <Dominus> I can't correct anything today because it is rather late already...
[01:50:45] <SB-X> this replaces your existing doc?
[01:51:03] <Dominus> Yes it is intended to
[01:51:14] <Dominus> well, at least my intention
[01:51:42] <Dominus> otherwise we would have too much information in two docs that would never be complete without the other one
[01:52:11] <SB-X> yes
[01:52:14] <SB-X> its really merged nicely
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[01:53:14] <SB-X> heh, i like the picture under "Schedules of Creatures"
[01:53:30] --- aer is now known as artaxerxesHOME
[01:53:34] <artaxerxesHOME> hi all
[01:53:35] <SB-X> hi
[01:53:54] <artaxerxesHOME> silly me... I realise only now why I can't use my normal nick
[01:53:58] <Dominus> hi artaxerxesHOME
[01:54:03] <artaxerxesHOME> hi Darke|afk
[01:54:06] <artaxerxesHOME> err...
[01:54:08] <artaxerxesHOME> hi Dominus
[01:54:09] <artaxerxesHOME> :_
[01:54:10] <artaxerxesHOME> :)
[01:54:25] <Dominus> SB-X: those pictures are from Curiosis' word doc
[01:54:26] --- artaxerxesHOME is now known as artaxerxes2
[01:54:29] <artaxerxes2> better
[01:54:36] <artaxerxes2> just like my email addy
[01:54:42] <Dominus> artaxerxes2: do you want the merged studio doc as well?
[01:54:53] <artaxerxes2> I would love it
[01:55:07] <Dominus> dcc or mail?
[01:55:50] <artaxerxes2> try dcc. If I die you'll know the cause (dcc crashes my client @ work)
[01:56:06] <-- artaxerxes2 has left IRC (Client Quit)
[01:56:11] <SB-X> :-)
[01:56:16] <Dominus> he he
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[01:56:28] <artaxerxes2> well we know now
[01:56:29] <Dominus> it wasn't me he he
[01:56:30] <artaxerxes2> :)
[01:57:00] <artaxerxes2> go for mail then! :)
[01:57:08] <Dominus> to what e-mail addy? researchcapital.com?
[01:57:10] <artaxerxes2> my current nick at iname.com
[01:57:25] <artaxerxes2> researchcap addy is for work hours only.
[01:57:33] <artaxerxes2> it's 21h57 here
[01:58:51] <Dominus> read the logs of what I wrote to sbx
[01:59:30] <SB-X> who is mark siewart?
[01:59:32] <SB-X> has he come here?
[01:59:47] <Dominus> ML only
[01:59:52] <Dominus> I think
[02:00:26] <SB-X> alright
[02:00:49] <Dominus> Kirben might better remember
[02:00:58] <SB-X> does it say somewhere that if you edit a chunk it changes it wherever that chunk is in the map?
[02:01:06] <SB-X> that confused me at first
[02:01:15] <artaxerxes2> just read it all
[02:01:27] <artaxerxes2> what's in particular you want me to read about?
[02:01:58] <artaxerxes2> (I mean "read the log file")
[02:02:19] <Dominus> just the general information I gave SB-X
[02:02:25] <artaxerxes2> ok
[02:02:26] <Dominus> nothing in particular
[02:02:38] <matto> guten tag!
[02:02:48] <Dominus> matto
[02:02:49] <SB-X> nevermind -> "Also be careful because when you edit a chunk you change every chunk in the game that is the same as the chunk you're editing. To solve this problem go into the chunks menu and right click the chunk you want to edit and select new, then duplicate. You now have two identical chunks."
[02:03:01] <SB-X> hi matt-o
[02:03:13] <matto> alle deine Base sind uns bekommen
[02:03:21] <matto> hehe
[02:03:26] <Dominus> he
[02:03:36] <matto> SB-X!
[02:03:42] <artaxerxes2> matto!!
[02:03:45] <matto> ART!!!
[02:03:54] <artaxerxes2> MATTO!!!!
[02:04:03] <Dominus> SB-X: what do you mean with nevermind?
[02:04:03] <matto> artaxerxes2!!!!
[02:04:10] <matto> spielt keine rolle
[02:04:33] <artaxerxes2> play little dice(?)
[02:04:43] <artaxerxes2> played
[02:04:44] <matto> not kleine! hehe
[02:04:52] <artaxerxes2> your
[02:04:56] <SB-X> Dominus: i mean nevermind about my question, it is answered very well by that paragraph
[02:05:00] <artaxerxes2> no, that's deine
[02:05:43] <Dominus> SB-X:he, I didn't see the original question until you mentioned it right now :-)
[02:06:06] <artaxerxes2> played his dice(?)
[02:07:16] <SB-X> Dominus: in section 6.2 it says that custom usecode creation will be discussed later, but custom usecode is really described earlier (section 5.3)
[02:08:00] <Dominus> that is one of those inconsistencies :-)
[02:08:17] <Dominus> I need to redo all the internal linking of the doc
[02:08:54] <SB-X> i havnt tried navigating the links yet
[02:08:59] <artaxerxes2> Dominus: I'm checking my email and I see nothing. Have you sent it yet and should I scourge my email server or are you in the process of sending it? ;-)
[02:15:51] <artaxerxes2> I'll scourge my email server I guess! :)
[02:16:35] <Dominus> it shouldn't make a difference that I wstarted your name with a capital A, right?
[02:18:06] <artaxerxes2> not, no diff
[02:20:39] <Dominus> you woldn'T think that just copy/pasting would take so much time and would be so exhausting...
[02:21:38] <artaxerxes2> got it! :)
[02:21:40] <artaxerxes2> thx
[02:27:48] <Dominus> so artaxerxes2: what do you say?
[02:27:58] <artaxerxes2> just opened it
[02:28:31] <artaxerxes2> looks good so far :)
[02:28:50] <artaxerxes2> so we're supposed to laugh at every spelling mistake? :P
[02:29:07] <Dominus> hmmm
[02:29:20] <Dominus> don't make me kick your work nick
[02:29:23] <Dominus> :-)
[02:30:57] <artaxerxes2> :)
[02:32:05] <Dominus> sometimes I'm sharing Jeff's pessimism that no one will ever create agem with ES and then it just looks so ironic to make such a good and in depth documentation (for Open-source standards)
[02:32:18] <Dominus> agem= a game
[02:32:28] <SB-X> they are more likely to do it with the docs
[02:32:46] <artaxerxes2> true
[02:32:53] <Dominus> right
[02:32:53] <SB-X> and if it comes with data files
[02:33:04] <artaxerxes2> I would never have started to make art if I did not read the doc first!
[02:33:12] <artaxerxes2> that's even better!
[02:33:36] <artaxerxes2> I think if I make a sufficiantly good enough set of art, I'll give it to ES
[02:33:58] <SB-X> if we change a shape from u7bg so much that it doesnt look much at all like the original, can it be distributed with ES?
[02:34:20] <Dominus> at least some basic art for everything would be great, like a very mini non-U7 example game
[02:35:11] <SB-X> the bmp->u7map tool is a good thing to have for making new games
[02:35:29] <SB-X> the bitmap editor could be included in ES, and ES can launch the converter to make the map by pressing a button
[02:36:08] <Dominus> SB-X: about u7 art that isnot recognizable anymore -> I'd say gray area... not something I would try because even for that you need some talented guys to make it look good
[02:36:19] <artaxerxes2> technically, I should make it also a png->u7map or gif->u7map
[02:36:29] <artaxerxes2> I just have to include SDL_image that's it
[02:37:31] <SB-X> if i had a scanner i could draw some art for a new es game but i dont
[02:37:40] <Dominus> artaxerxes2: the funny thing is that with ES and all the other tools we are already doing stupid format supports
[02:37:57] <Dominus> artaxerxes: we have shp2pcx
[02:38:17] <Dominus> the gimp-plugin to support shp
[02:38:41] <artaxerxes2> yeah, that's true! I've even made my own shp viewer just for the fun of it a little while ago (to convert u7wizard in C)
[02:38:47] <Dominus> ES uses png and if your tool only supports bmp, that is fine and fits in with the others
[02:38:58] <Dominus> :-)
[02:39:05] <artaxerxes2> but I thought ES what good enough not to bother with a C port of U7wizard
[02:39:14] <artaxerxes2> :)
[02:39:29] <artaxerxes2> if you really want to, I'll push in support for other file format
[02:39:38] <artaxerxes2> should work the same as long as it is indexed
[02:39:51] <artaxerxes2> you guygs know if PNGs are indexed ?
[02:40:27] <Dominus> me not know
[02:40:49] <Dominus> SB-X: well you could draw and send the art via snail mail to me :-)
[02:41:03] <Dominus> or go to a copy shop and have them scan it in
[02:41:50] <artaxerxes2> but if you draw a character make sure the angle is right!
[02:41:55] <SB-X> yeah
[02:41:57] * artaxerxes2 blinks at Dominus
[02:42:17] * Dominus wonders why artaxerxes2 blinks at him
[02:42:19] <SB-X> well they can be rotated 45 degrees
[02:42:24] <SB-X> i did that with some screenshots
[02:42:28] <SB-X> and with blending they looked normal
[02:42:38] <artaxerxes2> maybe that whole conversation about angles was with someone else then
[02:42:54] <SB-X> artaxerxes: i know png can be rgb and rgba but i dont know about indexed
[02:42:56] * artaxerxes2 fetches back his blink before it reaches Dominus's eye
[02:42:57] <Dominus> ah, that's why you blined at me
[02:43:07] <-- matto has left IRC ("This feeling.. inside me. Finally found my life, I'm finally free. No longer torn in two. Living my own life by learning f)
[02:43:16] <Dominus> no, then it was alright, we had thata conversation
[02:43:38] * artaxerxes2 sends back a blink at Dominus :)
[02:44:07] <artaxerxes2> ("... Living my own life by learning fr")... french?
[02:44:11] <Dominus> grrr, I'd really like to know how that sign off of matto ends (...by learning f)
[02:44:17] <Dominus> he he
[02:44:33] <artaxerxes2> fries ?
[02:44:34] <SB-X> i wonder if he knows it never goes through all the way
[02:44:52] <artaxerxes2> freedom ?
[02:44:55] <artaxerxes2> fromage ?
[02:44:59] <SB-X> "for you?"
[02:45:05] <SB-X> oh wait
[02:45:07] <artaxerxes2> no no... it's fr
[02:45:08] <SB-X> :P
[02:45:10] <SB-X> hehh
[02:45:20] <Dominus> I only see f)
[02:45:20] <artaxerxes2> from you
[02:45:36] <artaxerxes2> I see ("This feeling.. inside me. Finally found my life, I'm finally free. No longer torn in two. Living my own life by learning fr")
[02:45:45] <SB-X> i just see f too
[02:45:50] <artaxerxes2> he he
[02:46:01] <Dominus> that is even more strange
[02:46:12] * artaxerxes2 sticks his tongue. "my IRC client is better than yours!"
[02:46:13] <Dominus> by learning frizzling
[02:46:25] <Dominus> bah
[02:46:29] <artaxerxes2> except I can't handle DCC
[02:46:31] <artaxerxes2> :)
[02:46:38] <artaxerxes2> I KNOW
[02:46:47] <-- artaxerxes2 has left IRC ("studio.zip 1349413912 1024 424163")
[02:46:57] * SB-X Googles it.
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[02:47:25] <Dominus> I just couldn't resist dcc'ing artaxerxes2
[02:47:28] <Dominus> sorry
[02:47:34] <Dominus> welcome back
[02:47:40] * artaxerxes2 ' s foot is itching
[02:47:47] <artaxerxes2> ;)
[02:48:00] <SB-X> "Living my own life by learning from you"
[02:48:19] <artaxerxes2> how come typing /me's foot is itching doesn't work properly ?
[02:48:22] <Dominus> and what is it from?
[02:48:28] <SB-X> "Finally Free
[02:48:28] <SB-X> Music by Dream Theater
[02:48:28] <SB-X> Lyrics by Mike Portnoy"
[02:48:50] <SB-X> artaxerxes2: because me's is not a command? :)
[02:48:59] <Dominus> ahhh Dream Theater
[02:49:00] <artaxerxes2> it produce some result though
[02:49:11] <Dominus> so called Progressive Rock or Metal
[02:49:39] <Dominus> never my thing but friends of mine are quite taken by it
[02:49:40] <artaxerxes2> one point for the ES doc though:
[02:49:47] <Dominus> shoot
[02:49:49] <SB-X> :)
[02:50:08] <artaxerxes2> 2.6 should give an example of path (I didn't know I could use full path)
[02:50:17] <artaxerxes2> (for the -x option)
[02:51:27] <Dominus> so you can use the full path?
[02:52:05] <artaxerxes2> yup
[02:52:44] <Dominus> ok, when I do somethin (probably tomorrow I'll give an example using both relative and full path)
[02:52:49] <artaxerxes2> saw that when typring crtl-alt-m in exult and since ES is NOT in my path, I saw the output of the command that was ran
[02:53:36] <SB-X> Dominus: are you going to take the part of the FAQ out that says the walking style of the Avatar is disputed?
[02:53:49] <SB-X> in reference to a forum post about it
[02:54:33] <Dominus> SB-X: probably not or at least changing it to that the walking is now correct and ther WAS some dispute
[02:55:30] <Dominus> I also have to make sure that it is changed for bothe branches
[02:55:51] <artaxerxes2> 8.1: maybe adding my tool if the Exult Dev Team agrees to add it to the toolbox
[02:56:46] <Dominus> what was Jeff's response
[02:56:55] <artaxerxes2> nothing yet
[02:57:31] <artaxerxes2> nice doc.... well done
[02:57:55] <artaxerxes2> you might consider adding the doc/newgame.txt file in it
[02:59:12] <SB-X> oh right, that wont be needed either if merged with the single doc
[02:59:41] <Dominus> yeah, didn't do it due to lazyness
[02:59:52] <Dominus> and that it didn't work for me
[02:59:53] <artaxerxes2> do you mean: that will be needed?
[02:59:55] <Dominus> ...
[03:00:07] <SB-X> i mean he can merge it with the single doc and delete the text file
[03:00:16] <artaxerxes2> ah ok
[03:00:17] <SB-X> but maybe Dr.Code would disagree :-)
[03:00:35] <artaxerxes2> it's a cool nick he chose, btw
[03:01:01] <Dominus> you mena drCoed
[03:01:25] <artaxerxes2> :)
[03:01:38] <artaxerxes2> drCoed far Persidaent!
[03:01:59] <SB-X> i have to go
[03:02:02] <artaxerxes2> bye
[03:02:04] <SB-X> bbl
[03:02:12] <-- SB-X has left IRC ("X-Chat [1.6.4]")
[03:02:20] <artaxerxes2> archive.org still has a trace of that post!
[03:02:34] <Dominus> grrr
[03:02:46] <Dominus> I was really pissed back then
[03:02:52] <artaxerxes2> so was I
[03:03:01] <artaxerxes2> but the more we added the more he posted
[03:03:18] <artaxerxes2> s/added/replied
[03:04:36] <Dominus> funny how back then we both were just normal users
[03:04:55] <artaxerxes2> time goes fast
[03:05:24] <artaxerxes2> I've always wanted to be part of the team but I never knew how to. And I knew that asking for it would reduce the chances
[03:05:30] <Dominus> and now we have become entangled int hat project and I wasted a good night's sleep just to write ES docs
[03:05:56] <Dominus> ahh, now I know why you bought a zaurus :-)
[03:05:58] <artaxerxes2> and I'm on my way to waste another good night's sleep to make art! :)
[03:06:02] <artaxerxes2> :)
[03:06:22] <artaxerxes2> actually, that was a LARGE motivating factor. The second was I didn't pay for it! :)
[03:06:23] <Dominus> ok, it is 5 am here, I really need to sleep now
[03:06:29] <artaxerxes2> ok
[03:06:29] <Dominus> :-)
[03:06:34] <artaxerxes2> see ya then
[03:06:45] <Dominus> good arting!
[03:06:48] <artaxerxes2> thx
[03:06:52] <Dominus> bye
[03:06:56] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("enough for now")
[03:16:38] * artaxerxes2 is minimalizing the IRC window. Beep me to wake me up
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[03:58:31] <Colourless> artaxerxes2: png's can be indexed
[04:13:24] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("casts invisibility")
[04:14:23] <artaxerxes2> going to bed too
[04:14:25] <artaxerxes2> bye all
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[07:23:49] <SB-X> yo
[07:25:13] <Darke> Hi!
[07:26:52] <SB-X> Darke: when was the last time you use ES?
[07:28:28] <Darke> Umm... define 'use'. *grin*
[07:28:48] <SB-X> Launch... look at and go "hmm"... close.
[07:29:08] <Darke> Last time I compiled exult. Probably a month or two ago.
[07:29:16] <SB-X> *grin*
[07:29:44] <SB-X> have you seen Dominus' & Curiosis' new document?
[07:29:46] <SB-X> its really nice
[07:30:28] <Darke> I know it exists, I've not actually seen it though. *grin* Probably don't have a new enough cvs.
[07:30:36] <SB-X> it comes with pictures
[07:31:00] <SB-X> he didn't commit it because it needs some more work
[07:31:13] <SB-X> i think that's what he said
[07:33:04] * Darke ahhs.
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[08:01:53] <Fingolfin> yo
[08:12:19] <SB-X> hi
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[09:41:27] <sb-x> wb
[09:41:51] <Darke> Thanks.
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[10:51:20] <sb-x> gotta go
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[11:52:07] <Colourless> hi!
[11:53:01] <Kirben> Hi Colourless
[11:53:29] <Kirben> Is xmidi format very complicated ?
[11:53:53] <Colourless> no, not really
[11:54:01] <Colourless> why?
[11:54:31] <Kirben> Some games supported by scummvm seem to use it.
[11:54:57] <Kirben> Simon the Sorcercer 2 dos/dos talkie ot be specific.
[11:55:10] <Kirben> just wondering how I can confirm for sure.
[11:55:15] <Colourless> it's pretty similar to standard midi files
[11:55:36] <Colourless> a good way of describing it is that xmidi is just a compression scheme for midi files
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[11:57:59] <Kirben2> do you know of any tools for extracting them ?
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[11:58:26] <Colourless> what do you mean extract?
[11:59:05] <Kirben2> Well in this case, they are stuck in the main game datafiles.
[11:59:26] <Kirben2> So a utility that would search for headers and extract the files
[12:00:28] <Colourless> there is a dos program called xmirip that will scan a data file and attempt to find xmidi files
[12:00:48] <Colourless> don't the scummvm people know the data format type
[12:01:17] <Colourless> the other issue though is xmi files can have multiple streams in them.
[12:01:55] <Kirben2> Well currently no one is really interested in simon side of code in scummvm, basically it was anoher proejct that got merged in.
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[12:03:10] <Colourless> hmm
[12:06:05] <Kirben> xmidi can be music or sound too, right ?
[12:12:47] <Colourless> it can be used for sfx
[12:14:06] <Colourless> serpent isle used xmidi for music and sfx
[12:15:32] <Colourless> but there is a slight catch with serpent isle. John Miles (who worked at Origin and created XMIDI) added an Origin specific extension for SFX
[12:17:12] <Colourless> annoyingly the extension actually prevents me from using the FMOPL emulation to use the Adlib SFX
[12:18:33] <Kirben> I really hope these games don't use an xmidi extensions
[12:18:41] <Colourless> i doubt it
[12:19:06] <Colourless> but XMIDI had lots of interesting features :-)
[12:19:11] <Colourless> which weren't extensions :-)
[12:20:15] <Colourless> most of them were just for things like Dynamic music and notifying the game when a certain part of the song had been reached (i.e. calling callback functions)
[12:25:27] <Kirben> yep, they are xmidi for sure
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[12:39:37] <Kirben> how can I tell if xmi file is sound ?
[12:39:57] <Colourless> if its small it's sound, if it's big is music :-)
[12:40:28] <Kirben> well the midi files are also small.
[12:40:46] <Kirben> I extract a stack of xmi files and converted them to midi but some don't play back, so I thought they might be sounds.
[12:41:41] <Colourless> try playing the xmi's in a recent versions of winamp. the 'new' winamp midi plugin supports xmi and will playback all tracks in them
[12:42:04] <Colourless> any xmi converter, other than the one by me, wont usually extract any track other than 0
[12:44:16] <Colourless> you can use this program here: http://www.users.on.net/triforce/ssplayer.html
[12:44:23] <Colourless> it can be used to extract all tracks
[12:44:34] <Colourless> use the -extractall command line option
[12:45:28] <Colourless> i think you will want to do "ssplayer -extractall filename.xmi"
[12:45:39] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/ssplayer/ssplayer10.zip
[12:45:43] <Colourless> that's a direct download link
[12:46:09] <Kirben> winamp plays them all
[12:46:50] <Kirben> I used ripper to extract all the xmi files, want 341.
[12:46:56] <Kirben> want=was
[12:49:20] <Colourless> ssplayer will convert the xmi tracks to mid files
[12:50:25] <Kirben> I see now, I was using Markus Hein's XMI2MID
[12:52:02] <Colourless> i.... dislike that program very much
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[12:53:45] <Kirben> can I use wildcards ? ie --extractall *.xmi
[12:53:57] <Colourless> no
[12:54:12] <Colourless> which might be a bit annoying :-)
[12:54:31] <Kirben> ok in that case, I will have to stick with other prog for now.
[12:54:42] <Kirben> since there are 300+ xmi files
[12:54:56] <Colourless> if i'm converting a number of files i use another program to automatically create a batch file
[13:06:59] <Colourless> ok, here is a little trick that you could do
[13:08:44] <Colourless> create a batchfile that contains only the following
[13:08:44] <Colourless> ssplayer -extractall %1
[13:09:23] <Colourless> then associate xmi files to that batch file in windows (just rightclick then Open Width and choose program)
[13:09:43] <Colourless> then use cmd and do
[13:09:58] <Colourless> dir *.xmi /b > convertxmis.bat
[13:10:05] <Colourless> then run convertxmis.bat
[13:10:27] <Colourless> after doing that you can reset the associations of the xmifiles
[13:12:10] <Colourless> the process may take a while with that many files :-)
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[13:21:06] <Fingolfin> yo
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[13:21:10] <Colourless> hi
[13:21:25] <Darke> Hi.
[13:21:31] <Fingolfin> Colourless: how was your trip, anyway?
[13:22:02] <Colourless> it was ok. i did a hell of a lot of work
[13:22:55] <Fingolfin> where were you, anywway?
[13:23:00] * Fingolfin is badly informed :-)
[13:23:17] <Colourless> Sydney
[13:23:26] <Colourless> well, i didn't exactly tell anyone much of anything :-)
[13:24:00] * Darke pawwaves and does his standard etherial disappearance at this time of night for sleep. Goodnight all!
[13:24:22] <Colourless> cya
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[13:27:31] <Fingolfin> Colourless: ah ok then! I just though I didn't pay attention again :-)
[13:27:50] <Colourless> :-)
[13:36:08] <Kirben> Colourless: thanks, that worked well.
[13:36:56] <Colourless> you may get heaps of files that are 73 bytes long
[13:36:58] <Colourless> erase them all
[13:37:04] <Colourless> they are empty files
[13:37:57] <Kirben> can't see any
[13:38:07] <Colourless> that's ok
[13:44:26] <artaxerxes> hi all
[13:44:33] <Colourless> hi
[13:45:19] <Colourless> Eventually I became the Director of Technology at Origin and worked in a variety of roles on such games as the Ultima series, Wing Commander, Crusader, BioForge, and Ultima Online
[13:45:27] <Colourless> ah opps
[13:45:54] <Colourless> just from Zack Booth Simpson's webpage
[13:47:24] <Fingolfin> I was already wondering why you never told us before you've worked for Origin =)
[13:47:32] <artaxerxes> I have a question wrt u7chunks. They are made from the tiles found at the beginning of shapes.vga, right? Then how come some u7chunks also have stuff like trees and weeds on them?
[13:48:03] <Colourless> tress and stuff can also be put into chunks
[13:48:43] <artaxerxes> so a chunk is NOT a 8x8 list of tiles, right ?
[13:49:04] <artaxerxes> or rather, not only
[13:49:37] <Colourless> it's an 8x8 list of ShapeID's (shape frame combination)
[13:50:00] <Colourless> any of the 1024 shapes can be used as at 'tile' in a chunk
[13:55:17] <artaxerxes> what about the shapes that take more than 1 tile then ?
[13:55:33] <Colourless> that doesn't matter :-)
[13:57:27] <artaxerxes> curious
[13:59:04] <artaxerxes> if a shape takes 4x4 tiles (like a large boulder), should the chunk put that boulder id at only one tile ref or on 4 ?
[14:01:09] <Colourless> it will cover all 4, but will only take up 1 tile in the chunks data file
[14:03:02] <artaxerxes> how does it work ? how does it know that since the shape is 4x4, then it should not draw any tiles in a 3x3 range from right and bottom ?
[14:04:05] <Colourless> the size of the shapes is stored in another data file
[14:04:16] <artaxerxes> unless it draws from bottom right and make it way left and up!
[14:04:37] <artaxerxes> (if the hot spot of a shape is always top left)
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[14:05:41] <Colourless> hotspot is bottom right :-)
[14:05:55] <Colourless> if i am not mistaken
[14:05:55] <artaxerxes> ahhhh
[14:06:00] <artaxerxes> that explains why!
[14:06:56] <artaxerxes> I understand now! The tiles are all drawn in order (from top left to bottom right) and when a tile is in fact a shape (like a boulder), it draws over what was previously drawn!
[14:08:00] <artaxerxes> perfect! that answers my question
[14:13:27] <Curryosis> Just got done reading Dominus's first draft of the new studio docs. Great work
[14:13:42] <artaxerxes> he need your permission to publish it though.
[14:13:59] <artaxerxes> (that's what he said yesterday)
[14:14:13] <Curryosis> allready responded giving him permission
[14:15:00] <artaxerxes> Curryosis: are in the french part of Canada ?
[14:15:28] <Curryosis> kind of, I come from an english speaking town in a primarily french speaking area of northern NB
[14:15:44] <Curryosis> Miramichi to be exact
[14:15:57] <artaxerxes> I'm in Toronto
[14:16:14] <Curryosis> cool
[14:16:29] <artaxerxes> but I'm a french import from oversees! ;)
[14:17:58] <Curryosis> you speak the language?
[14:18:32] <artaxerxes> yup. I'm co-originator of si-french (si-french.sf.net)
[14:18:35] <Curryosis> wait a minute... stupid question
[14:19:00] <Curryosis> I knew that, just my typing got ahead of my brain for a sec
[14:19:15] <artaxerxes> not that stupid. I could have been born oversees but raised in English-speaking area of Canada.
[14:19:40] <Curryosis> yeah, but I knew you were the co-originater of si-french... tahst why I felt a tad foolish
[14:20:28] <Curryosis> BTW hows that progressing?
[14:21:50] <artaxerxes> it's getting there. KK has been more involved lately and doing a great job so there are less and less files to do
[14:22:23] <artaxerxes> I've slowed a bit the translation right now but my emacs window with a UC in it is permanently opened! :)
[14:22:34] <artaxerxes> (in case I feel a hitch)
[14:23:16] <artaxerxes> I'm doing the sailor in Fawn (the one that's drunk). I never knew he talked so much! His dialog is probably the longest I've seen on the entire SI
[14:23:39] <Curryosis> didn't realize that
[14:25:14] <Curryosis> about how much work is left to go?
[14:25:23] <artaxerxes> roughly 60 files
[14:25:29] <artaxerxes> out of 1300 I think
[14:25:41] <Curryosis> sounds like you're close then
[14:26:48] <Curryosis> Well the cafeteria is calling, gotta go.
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[14:38:47] <artaxerxes> how do I make a rotating palette, or how do I make use of an existing rotating palette (like u7's palette)
[14:41:31] <Colourless> the palette entries automatically rotate
[14:41:55] <artaxerxes> not every palette rotates though, right?
[14:41:57] <Colourless> using any of those entries will rotate, whether you want them to or not :-)
[14:42:38] <Colourless> all the entries above (and including) 224 will rotate
[14:42:54] <artaxerxes> what do you call "entries" ?
[14:42:56] <Colourless> entries 248 and above are translucent coloures
[14:43:03] <Colourless> entries/indices/
[14:43:32] <artaxerxes> those numbers are hard coded in Exult ?
[14:43:36] <Colourless> yes
[14:44:03] <artaxerxes> would you mind explaining to me how palette rotation works ?
[14:44:16] <Colourless> it's pretty simple really
[14:44:27] <Colourless> each rotation contains 4 colours
[14:44:37] <Colourless> when a rotation occurs the colours are shifted
[14:44:47] <artaxerxes> 224-228, 229-233, etc ?
[14:44:53] <Colourless> for example the first series is colours 224, 225, 226 and 227
[14:45:04] <artaxerxes> oh yes.
[14:45:27] <Colourless> when the rotation occurs colour 224 becomes colour 225, 225 becomes 226, 226 becomes 227 and 227 becomes 224
[14:46:20] <Colourless> you understand now?
[14:46:23] <artaxerxes> so only 9 colours can rotate
[14:46:34] <artaxerxes> sorry 8
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[14:47:39] <Colourless> yeah
[14:48:06] <Colourless> even though colours isn't really the right word to use.
[14:48:16] <artaxerxes> so the translucent one also rotate ?
[14:48:22] <Colourless> yeah they also rotate
[14:48:29] <artaxerxes> yeh I know.. I didn't know which word to use
[14:48:36] <Colourless> hence the spark's ass issue
[14:49:04] <artaxerxes> that wasn't translucent, was it?
[14:49:06] <Colourless> sparks ass has a translucent colour on it. if it's not drawn as translucent it will sparkle :-)
[14:49:09] <artaxerxes> just rotating
[14:49:24] <artaxerxes> what do you call translucent ?
[14:49:30] * artaxerxes is confused
[14:49:31] <Colourless> window :-)
[14:49:50] <Colourless> it's a 'mistake' in sparks shape as far as we know
[14:49:57] <Colourless> they colour shouldn't be translucent
[14:50:01] <Colourless> but it is
[14:51:08] <artaxerxes> translucent like blood ?
[14:52:10] <Colourless> yeah
[14:52:19] <Colourless> and ghosts
[14:53:01] <Colourless> and counter tops :-)
[14:55:04] <artaxerxes> ?
[14:55:16] <artaxerxes> or yeah!
[14:55:24] <artaxerxes> s/or/oh
[14:55:38] <artaxerxes> the vitrine in Iolo's shop for instance
[14:56:28] <Colourless> vitrine?
[14:57:16] <artaxerxes> a large piece of glass used to protect items on display
[14:57:33] <Colourless> counter top :-)
[14:57:37] <artaxerxes> ;)
[14:57:55] <artaxerxes> but a vitrine can be vertical too... is it the same for counter-tops?
[14:58:09] <artaxerxes> counter-side ?
[14:58:10] <Colourless> well, no :-)
[14:58:11] <artaxerxes> :)
[14:58:34] <Colourless> display case could also be used
[14:59:41] <artaxerxes> Colourless: where are you located again ? (not on about us page)
[14:59:51] <Colourless> Adelaide, Australia
[15:00:06] <artaxerxes> in Australia, do they use the word "serviette" to designate a napkin ?
[15:00:13] <Colourless> yep
[15:00:30] <artaxerxes> bbl
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[15:01:29] <wjp> hi
[15:01:32] <Colourless> hi
[15:02:48] <Fingolfin> hi
[15:16:48] <Fingolfin> gotta go now, cya folks
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[15:34:14] <artaxerxes> is it legal to use u7's palette file when redistributing a game ?
[15:34:24] <Colourless> no it wouldn't be
[15:36:09] <artaxerxes> would you say it's better to make tiles first and create a palette out of it, or first make a palette to draw the tiles ?
[15:36:38] <Colourless> i can not answer that question
[15:36:41] <Colourless> i don't know
[15:36:58] <Colourless> you sort of need to do both at the same time
[15:37:19] <Colourless> normally palettes are constructed using ramps (you can clearly see them in the u7 palette)
[15:37:33] <artaxerxes> otoh, using KDE, when I dclick on a colour in a palette file (under ES), the Kcolourpicker pops up. That's a VERY NICE feature
[15:37:56] <Colourless> what you need to decide is how big each ramp will be, and then what colours you will be wanting to use
[15:38:20] <Colourless> often what will happen is some art will be made, and a palette will be manually constructed that will fit all of the images
[15:38:32] <Colourless> once that is done, art will be drawn to fit the palettes
[15:38:50] <artaxerxes> I understand what you mean
[15:38:50] <Colourless> the original art will also probably be redrawn
[15:38:59] <artaxerxes> it makes sense
[15:39:26] <artaxerxes> first get a clue of what kind of colours you need and then readjust your tiles based on what you've made
[15:39:27] <Colourless> Ultima 7 for example had a number of the tile redrawn during production
[15:39:36] <artaxerxes> really?
[15:39:39] <Colourless> yeah
[15:39:52] <artaxerxes> what makes you think that?
[15:40:02] <Colourless> got some early screenshots with different grass and flooring tiles
[15:40:19] <artaxerxes> interesting! is it possible to have a look ?
[15:41:42] <Colourless> i'd hae to find them
[15:42:17] <wjp> bbl
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[15:54:57] <Colourless> i'm off now
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[16:10:32] <Dominus> hi all
[16:10:38] <Dominus> so im issed colourless again
[16:10:42] <Dominus> and curiosis
[16:10:48] <Dominus> well
[16:18:12] <Dominus> phew I feel like shit, a friend got her diploma around lunch time, so I went there, didn't have breakfast, didn't have lunch, drank a lot of "Prosecco" (Champagne like drink) and was wasted at 2 pm...
[16:22:18] <artaxerxes> that's what happen when you go late to bed! ;)
[16:22:24] <artaxerxes> 5am was it?
[16:22:51] <Dominus> that was when I logged off, doing some other stuff made me hit the bed at about 5.40
[16:22:59] <artaxerxes> ouch
[16:23:12] <artaxerxes> the gf wasn't happy I guess...
[16:24:20] <Dominus> Had to get up at 10.30, shower, catch a bus to the university, listen to the "ceremony" for 45 minutes, get drunk, visit gf at work, go shopping, coming home at 5.30 pm...
[16:25:02] <Dominus> my gf and me don't live together (yet) so that wasn't as big a problem...
[16:25:03] <artaxerxes> hard life, I tell you! :)
[16:25:25] * artaxerxes is going for lunch
[16:25:28] <artaxerxes> bbl
[16:25:38] <Dominus> I'll be here :-)
[16:26:56] <Dominus> going to try to get the secure connnection to the SF news server running, interesting how that will work...
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[16:32:34] <Dominus> hi wjp
[16:32:37] <wjp> hi
[16:34:22] * Dominus wonders why the cd he is listening to atm is labeled "can not be listened to on PC/Mac"
[16:36:14] * Dominus wonders how ripping the cd will fare after it seems to play fine on his pc...
[16:37:41] <wjp> :-)
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[16:39:13] <Dominus> ah!!!!
[16:39:16] <Dominus> hi Curryosis
[16:39:40] <Curryosis> heya, I rest responded to your e-mail
[16:40:12] <Curryosis> I'll have to make all new screen shots for the doc, I only have the low-res ones. Will only take like 20 minutes though
[16:40:14] <Dominus> ah, thx, just got it
[16:40:24] <Dominus> that would be great
[16:40:56] <Dominus> you don't have to label them like I labeled them in the version I sent you
[16:42:04] <Curryosis> allright. I'll sent you the pics as 1024 x 800 .bmp files. Yes I'll zip them first.
[16:42:31] <Dominus> *cough
[16:42:40] <Curryosis> uhmm
[16:42:45] <Dominus> they don't need to be sooooo highh res :-)
[16:42:59] <Curryosis> seek and ye shall find
[16:46:23] <Dominus> Curryosis: how far are you now with your guide? Did you do the tools already or were you idling the last week?
[16:46:59] <Dominus> Also, at the moment, we (Windows user) have to wait for ES to be compilable again for Win32...
[16:47:26] <wjp> it doesn't compile?
[16:47:51] <wjp> hm, because of that compile window?
[16:48:08] <Dominus> Execbox is the problem
[16:48:56] <Curryosis> I had 2 mean midterms last week, so I haven't done anything except writing a page on how to stick custom sound effects into exult and then listen to them
[16:49:28] <Curryosis> next week is pretty slack so I'll probably write a bit thursday and saturday
[16:50:05] <Curryosis> I can sent you the bit on exult tools I've written so far though, but theres very little not covered by existing docs
[16:50:40] <Dominus> yeah, those docs are quite okay
[16:51:20] <Dominus> I'm wondering if we should not just put any recommendations you have into the existing ones
[16:52:43] <Curryosis> You could just include somewhere for windows users not in the know to run command lines its easiest to make custom .bat files, in fact almost a necessity when compiling a huge list of sound effects in a specific order
[16:53:09] <Curryosis> I'd hate to type in sound effects 0 to 117 and make one spelling mistake
[16:53:31] <Dominus> that why that tool has the list option
[16:54:02] <Dominus> you write a list and tell the tool to compile the sounds int hat list
[16:54:11] <Dominus> no bat needed for that
[16:54:17] <Curryosis> true
[16:54:41] <Dominus> but you are right that a list is very recommended
[16:55:54] <Dominus> well, that cd was ripped just fine, I wonder why thes still insist on stupid copy protections...
[16:56:18] <Curryosis> possibly because the cd was ripped?
[16:57:08] <Dominus> hmmm, possible but in this case it is just a cd I bought for my gf and wanted to have as well as mp3...
[16:57:47] <Curryosis> o.k.
[17:03:45] <Curryosis> allright, 1.65mb file coming right at ya. Dow with them what you will
[17:03:54] <Dominus> thanks a lot
[17:05:17] <Curryosis> geesh I love university highspeed, uploaded that file in a matter of seconds, sure beats the 2 k a sec I get at home
[17:05:38] <Dominus> :-)
[17:07:43] <Dominus> here it comes
[17:10:01] <Dominus> look good
[17:10:09] <Curryosis> I love the guards pic myself
[17:10:19] <Dominus> yeah that one is just great
[17:10:21] <Curryosis> I missed when they were saying to battle though
[17:11:18] <Curryosis> Hmm with all the new additons the stucio doc is a page and a half short of double the length
[17:11:26] <Curryosis> of the old one
[17:12:18] <Dominus> yeah that is a lot of info in there
[17:12:29] <Dominus> and the screen shots add to it of course
[17:12:54] <Curryosis> hey, screenshots a great way of making stuff more interesting to read and look longer
[17:13:14] <Dominus> I like the "look longer" part :-)
[17:13:54] <Curryosis> Well I gotta go, its microbio lab time
[17:14:02] <Dominus> k
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[17:20:07] * artaxerxes is adding SDL_image to mock_up so that png files are supported
[17:27:35] <artaxerxes> done
[17:27:48] <artaxerxes> waoo, that was fast!
[17:28:08] <artaxerxes> the hardest part was to read the README to find out about the API!
[17:28:32] <Dominus> :-)
[17:31:45] <artaxerxes> new version of mock_up on: http://si-french.sf.net/mock_up.tar.gz.
[17:32:10] <artaxerxes> Now supports any indexed images supported by SDL_image (BMP, PNG and GIF AFAIK)
[17:32:46] <Dominus> very cool. say, you wouldn't mind doing this for every one of our tools? :-)
[17:34:22] <artaxerxes> like ?
[17:34:45] <Dominus> now that you mention it...
[17:39:16] <artaxerxes> ;)
[17:44:51] <Dominus> hey this nntp access to the sf forum stuff is great
[17:46:03] <Dominus> on 17th July 2001 a guy named Aurelian Marchand wrote: "can't access jackchaos.com"
[17:46:44] <wjp> bbl, dinner
[17:46:54] <Dominus> k
[17:52:29] <Dominus> wow and this is really useful for projects like scummvm that don't use a forum like we do...
[18:02:18] <artaxerxes> Aurelien
[18:02:32] <Dominus> oh, sorry
[18:02:56] <artaxerxes> ;)
[18:13:44] --- Dominus is now known as Dominus|docsing
[18:28:41] <Dominus|docsing> artaxerxes: just added : You can enter the full path (e.g. "exult_studio -xc:\exult\data") to the glade file or you can use the relative path (e.g. exult_studio -x./data)
[18:28:57] <Dominus|docsing> good enough for you? :-)
[18:32:41] <artaxerxes> awesome! thx :)
[18:33:17] <artaxerxes> I've made a REALLY wicked cobbled stone street
[18:33:20] * artaxerxes feels great
[18:33:32] <Dominus|docsing> :-)
[18:35:30] <artaxerxes> http://si-french.sf.net/snapshot4.png
[18:35:54] <Dominus|docsing> looks really nice
[18:36:36] <artaxerxes> it uses ultima's palette for now
[18:36:47] <artaxerxes> pb is: I can't manage to import it into exult
[18:37:04] <artaxerxes> I can see it from ES but I can't drag it on the map
[18:37:11] <artaxerxes> (no matter what mode I'm on)
[18:37:53] <Dominus|docsing> mhm, I had to work around such a problem before
[18:38:11] <Dominus|docsing> don't remember what I did though
[18:38:35] <artaxerxes> then at least I know it's doable! ;)
[18:39:02] <Dominus|docsing> try adding it to an existing shape as an extra frame (make sure you are using a patch dir)
[18:39:21] <Dominus|docsing> then save, and restart both (e and ES)
[18:39:31] <artaxerxes> makes sense
[18:39:54] <artaxerxes> but it should go in a u7chunk normally
[18:42:32] <Dominus|docsing> well I think there you have another problem.
[18:43:08] <Dominus|docsing> as far as I can tell you can't import a chunk up to now...
[18:48:06] <artaxerxes> not cool :(
[18:48:30] <Dominus|docsing> something you need to request from Jeff
[18:48:43] * artaxerxes is now iafk (intermittently afk)
[18:48:55] <artaxerxes> I know the fix:
[18:49:14] <Dominus|docsing> shoot
[18:50:03] <artaxerxes> split your hand made chunk into several tiles (the less the best) and import the tiles into shapes.vga and modify a chunk using those new tiles
[18:51:18] <Dominus|docsing> but it would be a lot nicer to be able to at least import flat chunks into ES...
[18:52:02] <artaxerxes> true
[18:59:04] <wjp> I think one of the first things to do would be getting rid of arbritary limits on the number of shapes/frames
[18:59:19] <wjp> (for custom games, anyway)
[18:59:31] <wjp> there's no reason why we should limit things to only 1024 shapes
[18:59:44] <Dominus|docsing> yeah, seems there is not much to be done for the u7 games
[18:59:57] <wjp> 65K (or even 4G) should be far more comfortable than 1024
[19:00:26] <artaxerxes> that seems a tad bit too much but better have the leeway :)
[19:00:30] <Dominus|docsing> yes (especially if we had multiple maps and the possibility to expand the game so much)
[19:00:58] <wjp> next to go would be limits on map size (in x, y and z directions)
[19:01:39] <Dominus|docsing> artaxerxes: could you check something for me? how does the paint with chunk work? I guess there is no footprint shown as you can't put it anywhere else than the red grid
[19:04:05] <Dominus|docsing> I think those need to be put into the "needs to be done" file: 1. getting rid of the shapes/frames limit in all instances
[19:04:12] <Dominus|docsing> 2. expand the map
[19:04:33] <Dominus|docsing> (3. multiple maps if it is still possible)
[19:05:06] <artaxerxes> Dominus|docsing: it works great
[19:05:18] <Dominus|docsing> and no footprint?
[19:05:18] <artaxerxes> just like paint, but chunks get changed.
[19:05:22] <artaxerxes> footprint?
[19:06:04] <artaxerxes> the cursor looks like the combat one, if that's what you are asking for ?
[19:06:10] <artaxerxes> s/?/(?)/
[19:06:32] <Dominus|docsing> paint mode shows the footprint of the shape you have chosen (green grid)
[19:07:44] <artaxerxes> red outline over the chunks
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[19:08:11] <Dominus|docsing> ?hm, just like it is always?
[19:08:18] <artaxerxes> only the cursor changes
[19:08:23] <Dominus|docsing> ok
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[19:11:57] <Dominus|docsing> Curieosis: another thing that was recently added and not yet working with Win32 was "paint with chunk" mode
[19:12:55] <Curieosis> I know, its on my to do list, I won't be able to play with it until ES is compiled again though
[19:13:40] <Dominus|docsing> works the same as paint mode only with chunks
[19:14:27] <Curieosis> its what I figured. I was actually going to request it abouta week ago, but someone beat me to the punch.
[19:15:10] <Curieosis> I'm really looking forward to being able to see the area covered by an egg though. That will be very useful
[19:15:23] <Curieosis> if its put in I mean...
[19:15:24] <Dominus|docsing> mhm, nice now german tv plays the best Buffy the Vampire episode ever - the musical episode
[19:16:03] <Curieosis> never actually watched that show before, but I rarely watch tv anyway.
[19:16:10] <Dominus|docsing> Curieosis: what do you mean? area covered with egg?
[19:16:59] <Curieosis> Uhmm.. it was mentioned in the mailing list that maybe ES would show a circle around each egg to show the area you could walk in that would activate it.
[19:17:11] <Dominus|docsing> ah, yes
[19:17:31] <Dominus|docsing> that is useful whenver it gets implemented...
[19:18:04] <artaxerxes> Curieosis: I'm the one who beated you at requesting the paint with chunk feature! ;-)
[19:18:27] <Curieosis> you dastard!
[19:18:37] <artaxerxes> how bare you ? :)
[19:18:39] <Dominus|docsing> isn't it jus beat? iregular verb?
[19:18:59] <Dominus|docsing> irregular or whatever
[19:19:01] <Curieosis> it certainly is
[19:19:03] <artaxerxes> whatever Dominus... whatever :)
[19:19:41] <Dominus|docsing> artaxerxes, wjp: what does the compile usecode do exactly?
[19:20:00] <artaxerxes> it compiles usecode ... :)
[19:20:18] <Dominus|docsing> hmm, I figured this out somehow :-)
[19:20:24] * artaxerxes needs a drink
[19:20:30] <Curieosis> What does Exult do? It exults?
[19:20:30] <artaxerxes> or a slap
[19:20:37] <Dominus|docsing> but how? which files does it decide to compile?
[19:20:46] <artaxerxes> lemme try
[19:21:08] <artaxerxes> patch/usecode.uc
[19:21:13] * Dominus|docsing feels the itch to dcc artaxerxes
[19:21:27] <Dominus|docsing> actually not anymore :-)
[19:21:34] <Dominus|docsing> thanks for checking this
[19:21:38] * artaxerxes scratch Dom's itch before it's too late
[19:22:49] <Curieosis> The logs for today are insane
[19:23:13] <artaxerxes> you mean it's long or silly ?
[19:23:31] <Curieosis> I'd have to go with long.
[19:24:07] <Dominus|docsing> well, the logs used to be much longer than this in the ... old days :-)
[19:24:38] <artaxerxes> listen to this old fart! *giggle*
[19:24:56] <Dominus|docsing> :-)
[19:25:23] <artaxerxes> no offense meant, btw... just being delirious after my 5th cup of coffee
[19:25:28] <artaxerxes> in 20 minutes
[19:26:16] <Dominus|docsing> if you didn't take offense by me crashing your client than I won't take any for this :-)
[19:26:26] <Curieosis> You need to consider investing in an IV hook-up
[19:26:28] <artaxerxes> I thought that was fun! :)
[19:26:37] * Dominus|docsing really thinks that artaxerxes should take care of this security risk, btw
[19:27:00] <Curieosis> hello exultbot
[19:27:03] <artaxerxes> if it doesn't work why would it be a security risk ?
[19:27:09] <Curieosis> hmm...
[19:27:10] <artaxerxes> exultbot: hello
[19:27:10] <exultbot> Hi artaxerxes!
[19:27:15] <Curieosis> o.k.
[19:27:16] <artaxerxes> exultbot: how are you?
[19:27:16] <exultbot> buggy
[19:27:21] <Curieosis> exultbot: hello
[19:27:21] <exultbot> Hi Curieosis!
[19:27:29] <Curieosis> ?seen exultbot
[19:27:29] <exultbot> That's me!
[19:27:45] * Curieosis teases exultbot
[19:28:05] * exultbot teases Curieosis
[19:28:21] * Curieosis sulks
[19:28:36] <Dominus|docsing> hey, wjp, why am I not coloured anymore in the logs?
[19:28:37] <artaxerxes> I know someone somewhere you is typing like crazy... ;)
[19:28:58] <artaxerxes> s/you/who
[19:29:10] <Dominus|docsing> I mean other than the dafault colour
[19:29:27] <wjp> Dominus: yes, good question
[19:29:39] <Dominus|docsing> I noticed this lately
[19:29:40] <wjp> did you insult exultbot sometime, maybe? ;-)
[19:29:51] <Dominus|docsing> *sniff
[19:30:01] <Dominus|docsing> nooo, I would never do this :-)
[19:30:23] <artaxerxes> bbl
[19:30:23] <Curieosis> Exultbot is a vengeful bit of code, is he?
[19:30:29] <wjp> hm, weird, you're not in the colour list
[19:30:37] <Dominus|docsing> I used to be
[19:30:50] <Dominus|docsing> and artaxerxes needs to be as well
[19:30:55] <artaxerxes> yeah!
[19:30:59] <wjp> yes...
[19:31:02] <artaxerxes> I have a favorite colour!
[19:31:05] <wjp> did you ever submit a colour code?
[19:31:11] <artaxerxes> ne'er
[19:31:21] <wjp> that would explain why you're not coloured, then :-)
[19:31:21] <artaxerxes> didn't know I had to
[19:31:53] <artaxerxes> #4499ff
[19:32:01] --- Curieosis is now known as currieosisism
[19:34:04] <artaxerxes> like back to the good ol' days
[19:35:56] <artaxerxes> wjp: if you change the colour code now, will it reflect in the old logs as well?
[19:36:02] <wjp> no
[19:36:46] <artaxerxes> is exultbot coded in an interpreted language or a compiled language ?
[19:36:47] <Dominus|docsing> I tried to find our conversation in which I told you my color code but couldn'T find it at first, will do so now more in depth
[19:37:02] <wjp> well, you only need to find a log page where you are coloured
[19:37:10] <wjp> you can just get the code from the html source, then
[19:38:29] <artaxerxes> 800080 for Dominus|docsing
[19:38:49] <artaxerxes> log of 12/12/2001
[19:39:24] <artaxerxes> just like wjp
[19:40:03] <Dominus|docsing> somehow it seems I never got my color
[19:40:32] <Dominus|docsing> oh, no in January I still had it
[19:41:14] * artaxerxes hasn't seen SoulHarvester in a long time
[19:41:35] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[19:41:35] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/
[19:41:35] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Fri Aug 9 21:00:39 2002
[19:41:55] <wjp> now say something :-)
[19:42:01] <currieosisism> bah, I was going to make fun of exult bot while he wasn't looking
[19:42:13] <artaxerxes> let's try!
[19:42:23] <artaxerxes> yeepee!
[19:42:23] <wjp> restarting it takes all of 4 keypresses, so it's pretty fast :-)
[19:42:28] <artaxerxes> thx wjp!
[19:42:37] <wjp> nice colour
[19:42:40] <Dominus|docsing> hm, seems I lost my color while being on Maui :-)
[19:42:51] <wjp> go away for a few weeks, and look what happens :-)
[19:43:11] <artaxerxes> Dominus|docsing: you have a colour now
[19:43:23] <Dominus|docsing> the best is that it took me this long to notice :-)
[19:43:32] <Dominus|docsing> thx wjp
[19:43:33] <artaxerxes> :)
[19:43:43] * wjp is jealous of artaxerxes' colour :-)
[19:44:34] <artaxerxes> try ff9900 for yourself
[19:44:44] <wjp> bright purple?
[19:44:49] <artaxerxes> it's a beautiful orange
[19:44:53] * currieosisism takes a seizure from all the colours
[19:44:54] <wjp> orange?
[19:45:01] <artaxerxes> but a nice one
[19:45:10] <wjp> fingolfin and vividos have ff6600
[19:45:22] <artaxerxes> ah.. never mind then
[19:45:30] <artaxerxes> there still is red I believe
[19:45:57] <artaxerxes> try cc3333
[19:46:48] * wjp considers FFFFFF
[19:47:02] <artaxerxes> should be kept for Colourless
[19:47:03] <artaxerxes> :)
[19:47:05] <Dominus|docsing> I think I like #990033
[19:47:15] <wjp> colourless is at b0b0b0
[19:48:13] <artaxerxes> <font color=#990033>test</font>
[19:48:19] <wjp> won't work :-)
[19:48:22] <wjp> (I hope ;-) )
[19:48:34] <artaxerxes> yup... doesn't work
[19:49:55] <artaxerxes> all this play and no work makes an Aurelien laid-off... I should get back to work
[19:50:04] <wjp> :-)
[19:50:06] <artaxerxes> bbl
[19:50:12] <wjp> speaking of which... *goes back to homework*
[19:51:26] <Dominus|docsing> ok, then I go back to studio docs...
[19:54:49] <Dominus|docsing> currieosisism: what is up with all the other options you can set a monster spawn to?
[19:55:10] <Dominus|docsing> I mean schedule
[19:57:15] <Dominus|docsing> and about path eggs, you wrote it only works in a certain distance, how far? or is it dependend if the map was already loaded?
[19:58:33] <currieosisism> I'm not sure the exact distance, but its about 10 screenlengths or so. It wouldn't work from Britain to Trinsic
[19:58:58] <Dominus|docsing> wjp: do you know anthing about it?
[19:59:55] <wjp> the path eggs? hm, not exactly
[20:00:06] <wjp> it changed a couple of times because of bugs
[20:00:13] * wjp mentions the sphere generator :-)
[20:00:22] <Dominus|docsing> ugh
[20:00:53] <currieosisism> I suppose I should finish the list of schedules. Most of them are pretty similar, though its kind of interesting to set a monster to farming
[20:01:22] <wjp> note to self: find_nearby_eggs(vec, 275, 256, qual, 6)
[20:02:11] <currieosisism> with farming the monster runs around and randomly attacks air. I'll try to finish the list tonight
[20:02:17] <Dominus|docsing> currieosisism: yeah a lot are sel-explaining and we might consider to moving the whole schedules out of the egg section as it is the same for the NPC editor...
[20:03:35] <wjp> ok, it looks 256 tiles in each direction for a path egg
[20:03:43] <wjp> (in a square, not a circle)
[20:04:04] <wjp> and it does not world-wrap
[20:04:29] <wjp> (i.e., a teleport egg at the far east edge won't find a path egg at the far west edge)
[20:04:45] <Dominus|docsing> does not? interesting in areas like the dream world
[20:05:05] <wjp> maybe it should wrap... dunno :-)
[20:05:07] <Dominus|docsing> good to know
[20:05:13] <wjp> we'd have to experiment with the original to find out :-)
[20:05:40] <Dominus|docsing> phew, I don't volunteer to eperiment with that
[20:06:27] <currieosisism> I'll finish writing up the schedules tomorrow, it'd be best to move it to the NPC section, that I haven't started to think about writing yet
[20:06:58] <Dominus|docsing> yeah, we can re-shuffle once we have some more
[20:07:46] <Dominus|docsing> btw, I write the doc in an xml file and then let the html be generated from that
[20:08:03] <Dominus|docsing> are you interested in working with that?
[20:08:21] <currieosisism> yeah
[20:09:26] <Dominus|docsing> I'll do a small guide to it and send it off to you later, ok?
[20:09:41] <currieosisism> sounds like a good plan
[20:09:55] <Dominus|docsing> makes it much easier for us to work on it
[20:11:00] <currieosisism> I was also thinking you may want to beef up the description of each exult tool a little in the studio docs. Maybe another line or 2 for each
[20:12:01] <Dominus|docsing> yeah, good idea
[20:12:21] <currieosisism> like for expack, say its used to edit flex files, but then briefly describe what a flex file is. Someone not in the know would have no idea what they are
[20:13:03] <currieosisism> mention how could be used for creating custom sound packs to be used in the creation of an original game
[20:13:38] <Dominus|docsing> I'll have to put the http://exult.sourceforge.net/docs.php#terms section of the exult doc there as well
[20:14:10] <currieosisism> that would be very helpful too.
[20:14:50] <currieosisism> Must have been a fairly extensive job merging those 2 docs, just wanted t congratulate you on a good job
[20:14:54] <Dominus|docsing> well, I link from the ES doc to it, but it should be there as well, ideally
[20:16:00] <Dominus|docsing> thanks, but better to have done it now than doing it later. Especially as it saves you a lot of time as well
[20:16:09] <currieosisism> true
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[21:27:24] <Dominus|docsing> Curryous, artaxerxes, wjp: take a look now at the studio docs on the web page
[21:35:55] <-- Curryous has left IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
[21:42:34] <wjp> Dominus: how about a news entry for this? :-)
[21:42:51] * wjp notices the front page hasn't been updated for over a month
[21:42:59] <Dominus|docsing> that would at least be something useful, right
[21:43:29] <Dominus|docsing> atm, I'm busy writing a quick guide to the xml/xsl stuff for Curiosis
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[21:44:57] <wjp> the link in the 'flex files' description looks kind of out-of-place there :-)
[21:45:39] <wjp> also, the link in the the 'paperdoll' description has three unprintable characters in it here
[21:45:55] <wjp> (same for the link to the FAQ under 'snapshot')
[21:46:29] <wjp> hm, they appear to be tabs
[21:47:01] <wjp> in fact, there are tabs and newlines in all externals links
[21:47:05] <wjp> s/nals/nal/
[21:47:08] <Dominus|docsing> hm, the link in the paperdoll thing looks okay to me
[21:47:29] <wjp> source: href=" faq.php# whatis_snapshot"
[21:49:56] <Dominus|docsing> strange
[21:51:17] <wjp> it would seem that somehow whitespace is being ignored there in the .xsl or something
[21:55:04] <Dominus|docsing> can you look at the term section in the documentation to see how that displays for you?
[21:55:17] <Dominus|docsing> http://exult.sourceforge.net/docs.php#terms
[21:55:53] <wjp> same
[21:56:10] <wjp> it displays ok, and the links are working too, but there are tabs and newlines in the source there
[21:56:21] <wjp> strangely enough only for extref's
[21:56:38] <Dominus|docsing> hmm, something to ask Fingolfin about....
[21:56:50] <Dominus|docsing> but I might have anidea...
[21:58:45] <wjp> also, the 'text only version' link at the top is broke
[21:58:46] <wjp> n
[22:00:42] <wjp> (clueless idea:) maybe there should be <xsl:text> tags around the 'faq.php#', 'docs.php#' and 'studio.php#'?
[22:00:53] <Dominus|docsing> no wonder if someone writes the php.xsl faulty
[22:01:36] * Dominus|docsing meant the broken link to the text version...
[22:21:20] <Dominus|docsing> you were right about the xsl:text tag
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[22:40:35] <wjp> links look ok now
[22:41:38] <wjp> keypresses may have the same problem, btw
[22:42:00] * Dominus|docsing will take a look
[22:42:51] <wjp> the kbd/key tags
[22:43:20] <wjp> but it doesn't really matter here I guess; whitespace should be ignored there in HTML anyway
[22:43:31] <wjp> ugh; *notices time*
[22:43:36] <wjp> I really should go :-)
[22:43:38] <wjp> 'night
[22:43:56] <Dominus|docsing> sleep well
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[23:00:33] <Curryous> uhmm.. when did I write a guide for Ecult studio? I think someone needs to spell check that update
[23:01:05] <Dominus|docsing> hm, you may be right :-)
[23:02:15] <Dominus|docsing> Curryous: can I send you a 2.3 MB big zip?
[23:02:34] <Curryous> by all means, I'm endowed with a large internet connection
[23:03:35] <Dominus|docsing> ?
[23:03:37] <Dominus|docsing> strange
[23:03:53] <Dominus|docsing> can you tell me what you received when you get this mail?
[23:04:02] <Curryous> yup
[23:04:22] <Dominus|docsing> the 2.3 MB were send in a second and I don't have such a fast connection...
[23:05:13] <Curryous> 2.3 mb doesn't exceed your mail servers limit does it?
[23:05:44] <Dominus|docsing> hmm, that may be but it shouldn't be...
[23:06:21] <Curryous> ohh. I like the new draft, I'm no longer listed as lazy
[23:06:43] <Dominus|docsing> yeah, I thought I couldn't write that about you :-)
[23:07:01] <Curryous> though it wouldn't be far from the truth if you did
[23:07:20] <Dominus|docsing> news are fixed now
[23:07:34] <Dominus|docsing> did you get the mail yet?
[23:07:44] <Curryous> not yet
[23:12:00] <Curryous> I seem to have gotten everything
[23:12:15] <Dominus|docsing> even the 2.3 mb zip?
[23:12:47] <Curryous> yeah, total file unzipped is 2.57 mb
[23:13:09] <Curryous> all the pics work
[23:13:09] <Dominus|docsing> well, that is really strange, but I'm not complaining...
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[23:26:31] <Dominus|docsing> how well do you understand the xml-structure of the ES doc?
[23:32:15] <Curryous> not all that well truthfully. It looks enough like HTML that with a little bit of doc reading and a little experimentation I should be able to write it good enough to do what I need to.
[23:33:31] <Dominus|docsing> just remember that normaly all tags need to be closed off
[23:33:52] <Dominus|docsing> so if you have <tag>text
[23:34:06] <Dominus|docsing> you need the </tag> as well somewhere
[23:34:50] <Curryous> Of course; I always do that when writing HTML, it helps ensure everything runs smoothly
[23:34:57] <Dominus|docsing> k
[23:35:35] <Dominus|docsing> there are some special cases like <Exult/> or <Studio/>
[23:36:17] <Dominus|docsing> <Exult/> gets converted to an italic Exult in html and <Studio/> to italic Exult Studio
[23:36:37] <Curryous> O.K. I read over the final draft. Looks good, just the occasional grammer errors
[23:36:44] <Dominus|docsing> and is used almost everytime we want to write Exult or Exult Studio in the text
[23:36:45] <Curryous> O.K. gotcha
[23:37:21] <Curryous> better then what I usually write though
[23:37:43] <Dominus|docsing> :-)
[23:37:51] <Curryous> as you've seen first hand
[23:39:14] <Dark-Star> *delurk* I thought that XML tags in the form of <foo/> need a space between the "foo" and the "/", i.e. <foo /> *relurk*
[23:39:34] <Curryous> the ES docs is a pretty big document now, bigger then last year's research paper
[23:40:25] <Dominus|docsing> Dark-Star: could be, but it also could be that the xml parser take this into consideration when converting :-)
[23:41:21] <Dominus|docsing> Curryous: as I said to Artaxerxes last night this documentation is quite extensive for an open-source project...
[23:41:42] <Curryous> Exult is quite an extensive open-source project
[23:53:17] <-- Curryous has left IRC ()