#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 24 Aug 2002 (GMT)

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[09:13:26] <Darke> Hiya.
[09:18:19] <Fingolfin> yo
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[12:14:56] <wjp> hi
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[12:29:17] <Colourless> hi
[12:29:31] <wjp> hi
[12:29:39] <Colourless> OMG!
[12:29:47] <Colourless> :-)
[12:29:51] <wjp> uh?
[12:30:18] <wjp> exultbot is still here? someone is alive?
[12:30:20] <Colourless> darke's action may cause the ultimate distruction of the universe
[12:30:25] <wjp> oh... that :-)
[12:30:56] <wjp> yes, committing things to the pentagram module might unravel the very fabric of the universe :-)
[12:31:30] <wjp> if such highly impossible things are possible after all, who knows what else will happen in the future :-)
[12:33:11] <Colourless> :-)
[12:33:19] <Colourless> so Darke, what do you have to say for yourself?
[12:35:35] <wjp> hm, I think I'll go continue my bg2tob game
[12:35:52] <wjp> I started playing it again last night... getting back into it is proving to be quite hard :-)
[12:36:15] <wjp> mage-to-mage combat especially
[12:36:28] <wjp> all those counter-spells... ugh :-)
[12:36:46] <Colourless> such memories :-)
[12:37:18] <wjp> I should probably get a thief in my party
[12:37:33] <wjp> dunno if there's one available, though
[12:37:38] <Colourless> yes... that would be a reasonably good idea
[12:38:12] <Colourless> go to the pocket plane, talk to the 'exit' and summon someone who is a thief
[12:38:20] <wjp> yeah, I know
[12:38:30] <wjp> I was just wondering if there are any thieves available that way
[12:38:43] <Colourless> imoen
[12:38:49] <wjp> already have her
[12:38:57] <wjp> but she's dual classed to mage
[12:39:03] <Colourless> yeah I know :-)
[12:39:16] <Colourless> i can't think of an actual thief
[12:39:27] <wjp> one of good (or maybe neutral) alignment, too
[12:39:56] <wjp> hm, can you create new characters in mid-game?
[12:40:06] <Colourless> um... there is a way
[12:40:29] <wjp> savegame hacking? :-)
[12:40:42] <Colourless> you need to copy your savegame directory into the multiplayer dir
[12:40:55] <Colourless> then start a multiplayer game with a single person from your savegame
[12:41:44] <Colourless> you can then change your party however you like
[12:42:22] <Colourless> of course, always ask your existing party members to leave, and don't erase them from existance by just replacing them in the character arbitration screen :-)
[12:42:38] <wjp> :-)
[12:43:07] <wjp> I'm wondering who I should get rid of, though
[12:43:14] <Colourless> and then once you have setup your party as you like, you can copy a multiplayer savegame back into the single player dir
[12:43:48] <Colourless> of course changing your parting using the character arbitration screen will reset the 'day counter'
[12:44:09] <wjp> current party: paladin (me), fighter (Mazzy), cleric (Sir Anomen or something), druid (Jaheira), mage (Nalia or something), mage (Imoen)
[12:46:38] <Colourless> my party had a bard (me), 2x fighter (Korgan and Sarevok), cleric (viconia), illusionist/thief (Jan Jansen) and a mage (Edwin)
[12:47:10] <Colourless> out of your party.. i would consider removing Anomen
[12:47:27] <wjp> well, his resurrection spells are moderately useful :-)
[12:47:37] <wjp> I was thinking of Jaheira
[12:47:54] <Colourless> yep, that would be my other choice
[12:48:29] <wjp> anyway, time to reboot :-)
[12:48:38] <wjp> bye
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[12:53:15] <Darke> Oh, hi Colourless. *grin*
[12:53:28] <Colourless> hi Darke
[12:54:59] * Darke looks, y'know, innocent. It's not him that's tampering with pentagram, and thus the fabric of the universe, no!
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[13:04:33] <Colourless> i'm interesting in what exactly you are planning on committing/adding to the cvs
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[13:20:06] <Darke> Colourless: Currently disasm.cc in tools/disasm, and the associated files it needs to run. Some documentation (the cvs structure and some scratch information about the global files), and the general makefile structure. *grin*
[13:20:55] <Colourless> :-)
[13:20:57] <Darke> AKA, not much, but it's an aweful lot of work just to get that far. *grin*
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[13:27:20] <Darke> Yep.
[13:27:50] * Darke considers acl based node permissions.
[13:27:54] * Darke considers himself insane.
[13:29:43] <Colourless> oddly enough, all of those changes would actually be reasonbly simple to do
[13:30:22] * Darke noddles. Yep.
[13:30:54] <Colourless> i'd also make it oo'd so you can do XMLNode->Set(value) rather than having to do config->set("node", value, flags);
[13:32:11] <Darke> You may want to consider calling conf/ something else whilst you're at it. *grin* We have a TableDataFile format planned, so perhaps name it something like XMLStorageFile? In either event, you probably want to flesh out the PentagramFileManager as you make your modifications. *grin*
[13:32:49] <Colourless> the thing that I wonder though, should be nodes be directly exposed, or a class the wraps around the Node and keeps the internal data structures exposed to Conf private
[13:33:01] <Colourless> yeah conf isn't quite the right name
[13:33:40] <Darke> Or something like: config->find("node")->Set(value) You might want find to throw an exception if it doesn't find what you're looking for, or else create it. Maybe two different ->find() methods?
[13:34:13] <Colourless> i want to avoid exceptions... you know PocketPC doesn't support them :-)
[13:34:32] <Colourless> i think 2 different finds
[13:34:57] <Colourless> one that will only get a node if it already exists, and another that fill find a node, and if it doesn't exist, create one with a suitable default
[13:35:02] <Darke> You'll probably want XMLNode::operator() to map to the XMLNode::getvalue() and the XMLNode::operator("value") to map to XMLNode::setvalue("value").
[13:35:25] <Colourless> s/fill/find/
[13:35:31] <Colourless> grrr
[13:35:37] <Colourless> that fill was supposed to be a will :-)
[13:36:22] <Colourless> probably a config->find("node") and config->find("node", defualt, default_flags)
[13:36:32] * Darke has come to the conclusion that the PocketPC sucks asteroids through monomolecular tubes and that you really want to buy a Zaurus. *drool* He's been researching the devices for work, it's emulation environment apparently boots off a CD. *grin*
[13:36:56] <Colourless> well, I don't own either :-)
[13:37:33] <Colourless> you must also know that exceptions slow things down, and also use extra stack space... we can't have that can we? :-)
[13:37:57] * Darke would it then, if it can't bother to be standards compliant, he can't be bothered to be worried about things not working on it. *grin*
[13:38:06] <Darke> s/would/would ignore/
[13:38:25] * Darke seems to be suffering a 'Colourless' day in reguards to his spelling and such. *grin*
[13:39:21] <Colourless> just because you have a feature, doesn't mean you MUST use it
[13:39:30] <Darke> BTW, I'm about to commit an 'exceptions.h' file too. Don't blame me, it's part of exult.
[13:41:08] <Darke> Well... no, but considering that if you use the reference safe vector<>::at() method, you're dragging in exceptions anyway, why not use features of the language provided they bring benefit? *grin*
[13:41:52] * Darke sees a class called 'exult_exception' and adds 'exult' to the list of keywords his keyword finder should warn about. *grin*
[13:43:55] <Colourless> well, it's already gotten around the exceptions in all the *disp tools
[13:45:39] <Colourless> can't remember exactly what i did to do it without making any changes to exceptions.h :-)
[13:46:15] * Darke snickers.
[13:49:24] <Colourless> we need to setup a uniform method of class, function, arg and member var naming
[13:50:19] <Colourless> i vote for Hungarian notation *cough* *cough* I think i'm dying here *cough* *cough* what's that god, you don't want me to do that :-)
[13:52:52] * Darke ooops. He had his paws wrapped around your throat, strangling the life out of you. So very, very sorry.
[13:53:03] <Colourless> forgot to add ALLCAPS with no spaces and not underscores :-)
[13:54:38] <Darke> I think we're mostly ok with class/member naming. *grin* It's really not all that difficult usually to fix egregrious uglyness.
[13:54:45] <Colourless> i have to wonder, do all the coders at MS really code like that?
[13:55:04] * Darke _really_ hopes not.
[13:56:32] <Colourless> i think we should at least have method that we should 'try' to stick too :-)
[13:56:58] <Colourless> at least pentagram is going to have a uniform method for doing braces, unlike exult which has 3 :-)
[13:57:56] * Darke laughs!
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[14:01:22] <Colourless> wb
[14:01:38] <Darke> Hi! Since I missed the chance to greet you before. *grin*
[14:01:56] <wjp> thx, and hi :-)
[14:02:26] <wjp> Colourless: I replaced Jaheira by Jan, for now
[14:02:36] <wjp> Chaotic Neutral will have to do, I guess :-)
[14:03:23] <Colourless> :-)
[14:07:10] * Darke has managed to get rid of the need for that acconfig.h header too, that autoconf keeps griping about being 'depreciated'. Hopefully it's backwards compatiable. *grin*
[14:08:00] <wjp> no, it isn't backward compatible
[14:08:13] <wjp> but I have no objections at all to requiring autoconf >= 2.5
[14:08:34] <Darke> Works for me. *grin*
[14:09:55] <Darke> It works with autoconf 2.13 too.
[14:10:02] * Darke just tried it. *grin*
[14:10:14] <wjp> hm, really?
[14:10:20] <Darke> Yep. Apparently.
[14:10:55] <wjp> and you didn't still accidentally have the file generated by autoheader around or something?
[14:11:33] <wjp> oh, btw, I think we should use configure.ac instead of configure.in
[14:12:24] <Darke> AFAIK, no. I removed both config.h.in and config.h, and IIRC it only uses configure.in anyway.
[14:12:31] <Darke> Will do. *grin*
[14:19:58] * wjp goes back to exploring Sendai's lair... bbl :-)
[14:20:27] <Colourless> have fun :-)
[14:21:50] <Darke> Bye!
[14:40:28] * Darke yawns and will wait until tommorrow to end the universe. *grin* Night all!
[14:40:41] <Colourless> cya
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[15:28:09] <wjp> k, enough bg2 for today
[15:28:18] <Colourless> :-)
[15:28:18] <wjp> rebooting...
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[15:35:37] <Colourless> so, where are you up to?
[15:35:59] <wjp> bg2? just reached sendai
[15:36:35] <Colourless> saying the fight with her is annoying is a bit of an understatement :-)
[15:36:54] <wjp> indeed :-)
[15:37:07] <wjp> I got up to the second her
[15:37:20] <Colourless> then again most of the time you are not actually fighter her :-)
[15:37:30] <Colourless> s/fighter/fighting/
[15:37:37] <wjp> of course, I couldn't remember at all which spells to use to counter her spells, so I was killed pretty much instantly :-)
[15:38:27] <wjp> I need to read up on things like pierce and breach
[15:38:57] <Colourless> one trick you can use is if you are far enough away from the statue that becomes active, it will be in shroud and wont be 'hostile' till you see it
[15:39:14] <Colourless> it allows you do 'cheat' and do things like sleep in the middle of the battle :-)
[15:39:20] <wjp> :-)
[15:39:31] <Colourless> s/you do/you to/
[15:39:58] <Colourless> also, try setting traps around statues :-)
[15:40:10] <wjp> traps.. hmm.. :-)
[15:40:18] <wjp> never used those yet
[15:40:30] <wjp> how do I use them?
[15:40:47] * wjp guesses there's a 'set trap' ability?
[15:41:24] <Colourless> you click the special abilties button, then choose 'set snare'/set spike trap (if you have the advanced special ability) and then choose the location
[15:42:46] <wjp> spike trap... hmmm... 20D6? :-)
[15:42:54] <Colourless> yes :-)
[15:42:56] <wjp> well well.. :-)
[15:43:31] <wjp> from what level did you get those abilities?
[15:43:34] <wjp> 16 or something?
[15:43:39] <Colourless> depends on the class
[15:43:49] <wjp> multiclass thief/illusionist? :-)
[15:44:20] <wjp> yikes, thief needs 24th according to manual
[15:44:54] <Colourless> you should get them when you've gotten 3.3 mil xp total IIRC
[15:45:41] <Colourless> i know that the special abilities didn't quite work as expected with multiclassed characters
[15:48:53] <wjp> I think Jan has about 1.5M xp per class now
[15:49:08] <wjp> level 13/15 or something
[15:50:10] <Colourless> i think you should start getting them around level 1
[15:50:11] <Colourless> 6
[15:50:52] <wjp> should be soon enough
[15:51:02] <wjp> experience is going up quite fast
[15:51:17] <Colourless> yes it does. i finished the game on level 38
[15:51:34] <wjp> I'm only 20 I think
[15:52:16] <Colourless> no way i was ever getting to 40 though. there is a gap of about 1.6 million xp from 39 to 40
[15:52:16] <wjp> how far in the game am I, roughly?
[15:52:39] <Colourless> i take it you have defeated the other bhaal spawn yet?
[15:52:47] <wjp> some, but not all
[15:53:04] <wjp> Sendai's the first I visited after that weird place in the desert
[15:53:12] <Colourless> ok
[15:53:32] <wjp> (with the lich, and the amassing mercenary army)
[15:54:04] <Colourless> hmm, lets think about this...
[15:54:15] <wjp> not too far yet, I guess?
[15:54:26] <Colourless> probably about half way i'm guessing
[15:54:47] <wjp> now if only I could remember how much time I spent on this first half :-)
[15:54:48] <Colourless> you should have seen solar twice so far, and you'll see her a total of 5 times
[15:54:57] <wjp> hm, solar....
[15:55:00] <wjp> oh, right, that planetar
[15:55:09] <wjp> yes, I think twice
[15:56:02] <Colourless> there are 3 bhaal spawn yet for you to kill including Sendai
[15:56:14] <wjp> it was a group of 5, right?
[15:56:29] <wjp> hm, let's see... I killed that Fire Giant
[15:56:38] <Colourless> yeah, there was 5
[15:57:04] <wjp> (yaga-shura, I think)
[15:57:29] <wjp> hm, who else did I kill then? :-)
[15:57:45] <wjp> oh.. the one in the palace in that city?
[15:57:51] <wjp> was he a bhaalspawn too?
[15:57:57] <Colourless> i'm pretty sure he is included in the 5
[15:57:58] * wjp 's memory is just a bit foggy :-)
[15:58:03] <Colourless> else from memory it doesn't make sense :-)
[15:58:49] <wjp> hm, I also haven't visited Watcher's Keep yet
[15:59:01] <Colourless> you should :-)
[15:59:08] <Colourless> lots of xp to gain there
[15:59:14] <Colourless> and you'll really really want lots of XP :-)
[15:59:25] <wjp> sounds good, then :-)
[15:59:37] <wjp> hm, if we keep talking about this I'm going to have to reboot back to windows soon :-)
[16:00:50] <Colourless> when in the watchers keep, don't try to guess the codes for the Machine of Lum the Mad, you'll just send yourself crazy. you'll find scrolls around the place with the codes :-)
[16:01:00] <wjp> I think I got some more things that sounded like Cespenar could use them, too
[16:01:10] <wjp> lum the mad? that name sounds familiar
[16:01:39] <Colourless> yep
[16:04:17] <wjp> so, what does this machine do?
[16:04:27] <wjp> lots of things, probably? :-)
[16:05:29] <Colourless> yeah it can do lots of things
[16:05:43] <Colourless> but mostly you'd be interested in it because it can increase all of your stats
[16:06:01] <wjp> hm, that does sound interesting, yes :-)
[16:06:05] <Colourless> guessing at codes will also sometimes give you weapons, potions, spells and other things
[16:06:35] <Colourless> BUT if you get a code wrong, you could loose stats, hp, xp (i think), be level drained and a variety of other nasties
[16:07:14] <wjp> ah well, that's what quicksave is for *evil grin* ;-)
[16:07:40] <Colourless> as I said earlier, you'll send your self crazy :-)
[16:13:56] <wjp> :-)
[16:16:08] <wjp> I'd like to play BG1 sometime with this party :-)
[16:16:49] <Colourless> i'd like to play BG1 with MY party. Sarevok vs Sarevok... FIGHT! :-)
[16:16:53] <wjp> :-)
[16:17:07] <wjp> level 38 sarevok vs. level 10 (?) sarevok :-)
[16:17:21] <Colourless> i think so :-)
[16:17:22] <wjp> you'd kill everything in one blow with deathblow :-)
[16:18:02] <wjp> or just summon one of those nice planetars :-)
[16:19:50] <Colourless> there are just so many options :-)
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[20:11:05] * Sslaxx hands out strawberries.
[20:11:17] <Colourless> thanks :-)
[20:11:42] <Sslaxx> How be you, Colourless?
[20:12:39] <Colourless> i'm all right
[20:13:38] <Sslaxx> Good.
[20:13:54] <Sslaxx> Do you have Morrowind?
[20:14:38] <Colourless> nope, i don't
[20:15:11] <Sslaxx> Pity. It's got a damned promising looking Britannia mod in the works for it.
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[22:07:45] <Darke|afk> (Lum the Mad) The only one of those I know about, used to write a MMORPG rant site (www.lumthemad.net, IIRC), and now works for the company that produces that Camelot MMORPG.
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[22:51:57] <phlask> hmm... no kidding indeed wjp :)
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