#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 24 Aug 2003 (GMT)

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[05:31:08] * DarkeZzz grumbles. Yet another ton of Sobig spam. 90 in one person account and another 60+ in exult-general. *sigh*
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[05:34:27] <DarkeZzz> And another 30 sobig-spam in another account. This is really getting quite silly.
[05:44:10] <daniel`> get a spam filter?
[05:45:38] <DarkeZzz> I spamcop legitimate spam, so that would be counterproductive. It's all the sobig worm, and mail-gateway virus scanner bounces that are rather annoying. *grin*
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[10:33:43] <wjp> DarkeZzz: yes, the people that came up with virus-warning-notifications for SoBig should be shot... :/
[10:35:02] <DarkeZzz> Oh, for the record I just emptied another 30 or so sobig+sobig bounces out of one of my boxes. about 10% are bounces from non-existant addresses, 50% virus, and 40% "you've got a virus!" emails. *sigh*
[10:35:34] <wjp> I got about 90x2 copies
[10:36:22] <wjp> counting the exult-general ones twice since I get them twice :-)
[10:36:30] <wjp> (home email address and uni email address)
[10:38:49] <DarkeZzz> Heh.
[10:39:42] <wjp> maybe we should include a sobig-f cleaner in the exult snapshots? ;-)
[10:40:02] * DarkeZzz cleans another dozen out, most 'from' exult team members. Looks like we've got multiple people who have our email addresses floating around. *grin*
[10:40:34] * DarkeZzz snickers.
[10:41:35] <DarkeZzz> Maybe we should 'just' toss a post out to the forum saying "Oi! Make sure all your machines are clear of $virus, we're getting dozens of spoofed spam emails from someone with a list of our emails on their hdd, who's infected (from About Us page, etc.)"?
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[14:33:02] <GoG> hey there
[14:33:28] <GoG> anyone give me a hand with my exult path settings on freebsd?
[14:33:48] <GoG> at least, I'm suspecting it's got to do with my path settings
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[16:16:46] <Lord_Nightmare> is it just my imagination, or is the u7 intro missing the 'zoom' into the mmongate at the end, and the lipsync on the guardian is entirely absent? (he just follows the same mouth pattern over and over, like in the unreleased unfinished snes version of u7 which someone dumped a while back)
[16:19:02] <Kirben> Yes, both features are still missing in BG intro.
[16:19:43] * Lord_Nightmare wonders if i should add those two notes above to the bugs list or to the feature request list, since they seem to be on neither of the two
[16:20:47] <Kirben> Could add them to Feature Requests but they are known issues.
[16:20:54] <Lord_Nightmare> ok
[16:21:50] <Lord_Nightmare> isn't the lipsync done with scripts (or usecode or whatever script language it is that u7 uses)?
[16:22:57] <Kirben> Not sure where exactly is was but someone has found the data, just not added to Exult yet.
[16:23:38] <Lord_Nightmare> and a helpful feature in the midi select menu would be to have 'None' be 'None (Raw MT-32)' instead
[16:23:59] <Lord_Nightmare> s/menu/option/
[16:25:47] <Kirben> Well there is no mt32 support so far, since no developers have one. Just no gm remapping..
[16:26:18] <Lord_Nightmare> well
[16:26:30] <Lord_Nightmare> wouldn't 'none' be midi in mt-32 format?
[16:26:51] <Lord_Nightmare> i have an mt-32 and it sounds pretty much the same as in the real version
[16:26:58] <Kirben> Not sure, would have to ask Colorless.
[16:27:28] <Lord_Nightmare> i think windows eats the sysex data though
[16:28:33] <Lord_Nightmare> also in the bg intro (i assume this is in the same usecode 'script' as the zoom effect is in) there's supposed to be a sound that plays just as you hit the moongate
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[16:28:41] <Lord_Nightmare> ...
[16:29:02] <Lord_Nightmare> s/zoom effect is in/zoom effect is triggered from/
[16:29:24] <seang> is it just me, or are there no sound effects in the game yet?
[16:29:31] <seang> .
[16:30:22] <Lord_Nightmare> well the music changes, that much i can tell
[16:30:41] <Lord_Nightmare> and i'm pretty sure that i did hear at least one sound effect
[16:31:00] <Lord_Nightmare> but that could've been a hallicination, since this was at 3am
[16:31:04] <seang> :)
[16:32:31] <Lord_Nightmare> odd thing, the music changes but it doesn't change BACK. i don't know if that's as in the original or not, since when i tried the original the intro worked but i couldn't get into the game itself
[16:32:50] <Lord_Nightmare> darn stupid voodoo memory manager
[16:33:17] <Lord_Nightmare> although i think the mouse driver was at fault for not letting me into the game
[16:33:36] <Lord_Nightmare> wouldn't let me type on the 'name entry' screen
[16:33:46] <Lord_Nightmare> works fine in exult tho
[16:33:58] <Lord_Nightmare> ok now to try again
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[17:43:46] <Lord_Nightmare> who asked about sound effects in exult?
[17:44:20] <Lord_Nightmare> theres a section in the readme which explains how you can get (most) of them to work
[17:44:31] <Lord_Nightmare> you need an additional file
[17:45:06] <Lord_Nightmare> personally i don't understand the necessity of it
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[17:46:49] <Colourless> hi
[17:46:56] <Lord_Nightmare> some sound effects DO work without needing the sound effects pack. examples being the guardian's speech during the bg intro, and the laugh (guardian?) when you enter the blacksmith building
[17:47:04] <Lord_Nightmare> hi
[17:48:57] <Lord_Nightmare> I have a question: what prevents exult from using the sound effects data from within the u7 datafiles themselves? the only thing i could think of that would be needed would be a sound effect table/offset table for each of the two games
[17:49:32] <Lord_Nightmare> or is that exactly what the exult-specific sound effects .flx file is?
[17:50:14] <wjp> nothing really _prevents_ exult from using that sfx data
[17:50:15] <Colourless> the u7 data files use an icky format for the sfc
[17:50:20] <Colourless> s/sfc/sfx/
[17:50:54] <Colourless> and with BG, aspects of the sfx were hardcoded into the exe
[17:51:10] <Colourless> making it really difficult to do anything with them
[17:51:19] <wjp> heh, right, I forgot about that part :-)
[17:51:26] <Lord_Nightmare> and converting the icky format into something usable on runtime isn't feasable?
[17:51:38] <Lord_Nightmare> what data is hardcoded? loop points?
[17:52:18] <Colourless> in BG the sfx are either MT32 or Adlib timbre definitions. The exe file contains all the data on how exactly the Timbres were meant to be used when generating a sfx
[17:53:33] <Lord_Nightmare> so thats what the whole 'origin sound system!' thing was
[17:53:43] <Colourless> SI does it a differently. The sfx are xmidi files. The timbres for all the sfx are stored in separate bank files (xmidi.mt and xmidi.ad)
[17:54:10] <Lord_Nightmare> ah
[17:54:18] <Lord_Nightmare> that seems a bit easier to deal with
[17:54:28] <Colourless> SI pretty much just uses pure AIL with an extension.... the ADLIB timbre format for the SFX is not the standard AIL format
[17:54:55] <Colourless> not sure about MT32, but i'm pretty sure they are just standard timbres
[17:55:04] * Lord_Nightmare has an mt-32
[17:56:17] <Lord_Nightmare> so the sound effects like birds tweeting, crickets chirping, doors opening, are done using the mt-32, and not digital audio? interesting....
[17:57:43] <Colourless> well yes. Pretty much everything was midi, execpt for the speech (and the horrid lightning in the SI intro)
[17:58:23] <Lord_Nightmare> ...and the laughing when you first enter the blacksmith shop in trinsic, right?
[17:58:58] <Lord_Nightmare> this is all starting to make sense
[17:59:08] <Colourless> yes
[17:59:14] <Colourless> that's classed as speech
[17:59:29] <Colourless> if you go into exult and press Alt-1 the 'sound tester' will come up
[17:59:53] <Colourless> you can then play each of the 3 sound type. Music, SFX, and Speech (might be called Voice)
[18:00:37] <Lord_Nightmare> when the music conversion is set to 'none' does it just use standard unconverted mt-32 music?
[18:01:17] <Colourless> yes
[18:01:27] * Lord_Nightmare wonders what happens to the sysex data, is that sent too, or was that one of the mystery features lost in the miasma of the executable
[18:01:35] <Colourless> however, at this stage exult doesn't support the custom timbres that were used
[18:01:46] <Colourless> so, no sysex data
[18:01:49] <Lord_Nightmare> ah ok that answers my question
[18:02:06] <Colourless> i actually just don't know how to send it :-)
[18:02:16] <Lord_Nightmare> really? that's it?
[18:02:28] <Lord_Nightmare> ask jamieson630 on #scummvm, he figured it out
[18:03:11] <Lord_Nightmare> he's there right now, too
[18:04:36] <Colourless> i've got some documentation around here 'somewhere' on how to do it, but my problem is testing to see if something works hasn't really been possible
[18:04:53] <Colourless> now though the mt32 emulator will make that a bit easier for me :-)
[18:05:20] <seang> what's the difference between "Sound pack for Black Gate" and "Sound pack for Black Gate (Roland MT-32)" ?
[18:05:34] <Lord_Nightmare> well the mt-32 emulator, last i checked, isn't exactly on par with the real thing yet
[18:05:45] <wjp> one has been recorded from an mt-32, the other from... adlib? (not sure)
[18:05:50] <seang> ahh
[18:05:53] <Lord_Nightmare> seang: one is sound effects rendered to wav from adlib, other from mt-32
[18:05:59] <Colourless> yes. as i said 'will' make that a bit easier for me
[18:06:08] <Lord_Nightmare> mt-32 is better sounding but some people like adlib
[18:06:32] <wjp> "better sounding" is a bit subjective :-)
[18:06:43] <seang> of course
[18:07:14] <seang> for some people, I'm sure "better sounding" = "nostailgic"
[18:08:11] <Lord_Nightmare> Colourless: can't the wacky-format data from bg be converted to a more usable form (on runtime?)?
[18:09:42] <Lord_Nightmare> i mean, at least adlib sfx should be pretty easy to do with the opl2 emulator and all
[18:10:03] <Lord_Nightmare> mt-32 needs a lot of sysex stuff which is complicated and tricky
[18:11:00] <Colourless> Lord_Nightmare: well, i can already load the data in exult, that isn't a problem
[18:11:04] <Colourless> for BG that is, IIRC
[18:11:32] <Colourless> i haven't tried it though
[18:12:03] <Colourless> for SI it won't work, and I don't think i will be able to get it to work either
[18:12:34] <Colourless> the SI adlib sfx timbers have a lot of data in them that i have no idea of what it's for
[18:13:20] <Colourless> in the end though, both games are going to need different methods to play their sfx
[18:15:42] <Colourless> not that it's difficult, but i don't know if it's a good idea to contribute to universal entropy by making exult's source code even more chaotic
[18:22:59] <Lord_Nightmare> i would think that sfx and music data would conflict in places
[18:23:06] <Lord_Nightmare> since both are using the same hardware
[18:23:15] <Lord_Nightmare> which gets priority?
[18:23:38] <Colourless> actually, in normal conditions that wont happen
[18:24:03] <Colourless> you use channel remapping
[18:24:16] <Lord_Nightmare> why? u7 will only use channels 1-6 for music, and reserves 7 and 8 for sfx or something like that?
[18:24:28] <Colourless> something like that
[18:24:47] <Colourless> basically the music is created so there will always be free channels for the sfx
[18:24:58] <Lord_Nightmare> ah
[18:25:34] <Colourless> and also, for SI at least, since it used AIL, there are specific rules outlined of what to do when there are no free channels
[18:26:04] <Lord_Nightmare> so this isn't like loom (ega), where there are only 9 adlib channels and it sometimes plays music where there would be more than that number used at once
[18:26:37] <Colourless> it shouldn't
[18:27:10] <Lord_Nightmare> good. seems origin was at least a little more organized than lucasarts
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[18:50:58] <Colourless> Ooo! Shiny ones!
[18:52:01] <wjp> got as far as the expansion already?
[18:52:09] <Colourless> yes
[18:53:15] <Colourless> my character was already at level 40 by the time i got to spell hold, which was amusing. not like there was much difference between levels 38, 39 and 40 :-)
[18:53:42] <Colourless> of course the end of shadows of amn was a tad easy since all of my characters were getting high level abilities
[18:55:11] <Colourless> anyway, back to playing :-)
[18:55:22] <wjp> :-)
[19:46:14] <wjp> whee... just heard from harekiet that U7 works in dosbox :-)
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[20:09:09] <Lord_Nightmare> u7 in dosbox? i had assumed so, how else could the mt-32 stuff be tested if not in dosbox
[20:10:31] <Lord_Nightmare> i wonder if ea will rerelease the ultima collection with a decent dos emulator
[20:11:15] <Lord_Nightmare> or remaster the old ones. heck they could even use exult for u7, although they'd need to ask permission first
[20:48:22] <Colourless> going
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