#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 24 Feb 2010 (GMT)

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[00:11:34] <Malignant_Manor> One complicated way to make the installation easier would be to have the installer have options to download the digital music, sfx, and mods.
[00:12:00] <Marzo> back
[00:13:21] <Marzo> Malignant_Manor: I made a similar comment in spirit, but minced the works, on that tracker
[00:13:39] <Marzo> (the "screw it up" thing)
[00:21:41] <Malignant_Manor> Why does ES need exultmsg.txt?
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[08:03:36] <Dominus> @Marzo: how about adding a command line switch to make Exult behave portable?
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[08:45:52] <Dominus> Windows ME: seems to work fine. Stuff is saved in c:\Windows\Application Data\Exult
[08:46:06] <Dominus> Exult Studio works fine, too
[08:47:34] <Dominus> (because I needed to make a CD image with all the files in it to use it in the VM, my keyring/gamedat was read only after I had copied it off the image and therefore Keyring mod crashed and burned on first start :)
[08:47:51] <Dominus> Installer worked fine, too
[08:55:31] <Dominus> Windows 98 SE uses old style, everything in the program files/exult folder
[08:57:24] <Dominus> Exult Studio works fine, too (and I mean both, it starts and connects to Exult)
[09:29:54] <Dominus> ouch default midi on Win98 VMware sounds horrible… I'm just too pampered by the MT32 :)
[10:09:54] <Dominus> so, last of the Win9x, plain Windows 98 works as well. same as 98SE, uses the Program Files folder
[10:10:46] <Dominus> I'm not entirely happy that not all Win9x work the same, that Windows ME uses a completely different folder to than other Windows 9x and than the NT based ones....
[10:10:56] <Dominus> now going to test W2k...
[10:30:21] <Dominus> as for adding an install procedure for the original game media, I *do* have a lengthy description on how to install the games http://exult.sourceforge.net/docs.php#Installing%20the%20original%20Ultima%20VII%20games%20for%20use%20with%20Exult
[10:37:30] <wjp> hm, was the renamed new usecode file after installing add-on or patch in U7 or in U8?
[10:37:43] <Dominus> u7
[10:37:54] <Dominus> it's mentioned in there
[10:38:42] <Dominus> and afair, this was only when installing via Dosbox (and should be fixed for some time now)
[10:38:59] <wjp> ah
[10:42:10] <Dominus> I really spent a long time figuring out all these install routines. Especially the manual guide was exhausting back then :)
[10:43:53] <Dominus> W2k is working fin as well. Same location as XP and Exult Studio runs as well and connects
[10:45:03] <Dominus> untested NT 4, Vista and the Server versions
[10:45:16] <Dominus> I'm not doing any of those :)
[10:47:43] <Colourless> time for nt3.51 then
[10:50:57] <Colourless> it *might* just work
[10:51:59] <Dominus> be my guest and test it :)
[10:55:30] <Colourless> i would if i had it
[11:03:21] <Dominus> Fullscreen/Windowed switching: Works in XP and 2k, doesn't work in 98, 98SE, ME, W7
[11:04:09] <Colourless> as that code is SDL related it might change with different versions of SDL
[11:04:21] <Dominus> Now all that testing was fun, let's not do it again
[11:04:22] <Colourless> which would be really really bad
[11:04:36] <Dominus> Yes, I'm sure it would be fine with SDL 1.2.13
[11:06:09] <Dominus> hmm, I still have one around, I think… Let's test again :)
[11:16:07] <Dominus> curiosly just exchanging the dll is not working. tried with 1.2.13 and 1.2.12
[11:21:30] <Dominus> even more curios, it won't switch to fullscreen even with Exult 1.2 :)
[11:24:31] <wjp> the guilty code probably hasn't changed in ages
[11:28:34] <Rottingbeef> Hey, guys. I have a random question that's actually related to the game itself. It's been a question I've never found an answer to. Is there a way to open the storeroom on top of Lord British's castle in the northeast corner? It's the one with the armor and the musket.
[11:28:50] <wjp> there's a lever under it
[11:29:02] <wjp> (same location, but on the ground floor)
[11:29:13] <Rottingbeef> Is it one of the levers right next to the kitchen?
[11:29:38] <wjp> yes, IIRC the kitchen is in that corner too
[11:30:11] <wjp> it should be in the secret passage, possibly behind some crates, but my memory is a bit fuzzy
[11:30:33] <Rottingbeef> I used to run around in circles when I was a kid trying to figure that one out. I could've sworn that I'd tried every lever, but I'll give it another look. I've been playing the game again (as I have a tendency to do).
[11:30:44] <Rottingbeef> I like making the abandoned castle in Yew my house.
[11:34:07] <wjp> *thinks* ah, the wisp one
[11:35:20] <Rottingbeef> Yeah.
[11:35:30] <Rottingbeef> It's depressing to me how small the game world feels to me now, though.
[11:36:10] <wjp> yeah, already knowing where everything is changes the atmosphere quite a bit
[11:36:21] <Rottingbeef> It's always fun when I find new things, though.
[11:39:14] <Rottingbeef> I don't remember if I've ever solved the quest regarding Julian.
[11:39:29] <wjp> Julian?
[11:39:31] <Rottingbeef> Or maybe I did.
[11:39:34] <Rottingbeef> Yeah, I think I did.
[11:40:21] <Rottingbeef> That depressed girl in Cove who falls in love with you and who has the sob story about her grandmother sends you on the quest to find out about her father Julian, or something like that.
[11:40:32] <Rottingbeef> And I think it goes that Julian died saving the Emps from a fire.
[11:40:41] <wjp> ah, yes, that rings a bell
[11:41:09] <Rottingbeef> Oh, wait, I'm Baastuul, by the way. I don't know if you caught that. I changed my nickname on this network some months ago.
[11:41:45] <wjp> ah :-)
[11:42:22] <wjp> I figured you were someone we knew a long time already :-)
[11:42:28] <Rottingbeef> :)
[11:42:43] <wjp> in .jp currently?
[11:42:45] <Rottingbeef> This is the nickname I made back in 1997 and which has stuck in a couple of communities.
[11:42:56] <Rottingbeef> It's based off of Captain Rottingham from The Curse of Monkey Island.
[11:43:03] <Rottingbeef> Yeah, I'm teaching English in the Osaka area.
[11:43:11] <wjp> cool
[11:43:18] <Rottingbeef> It pays the bills!
[11:43:38] <Rottingbeef> I don't think I'll be here more than two or three years, though. I've already been here since late August.
[11:43:45] <wjp> is the average pronounciation there as bad as japanese tv suggests? :-)
[11:45:01] <Rottingbeef> Yeah, generally it is. A lot of English words have made their way into Japanese, and usually they're transliterated into katakana, the alphabet the Japanese use primarily for loan words and for sounding out foreign names. It's not as flexible as the Latin alphabet, so the words follow the Japanese phonology.
[11:45:16] <Rottingbeef> The word "slang" is even in Japanese, except it's "surango."
[11:45:59] <wjp> or 'meiru' :-)
[11:46:45] <Rottingbeef> Hehe, yeah. Sometimes I don't even realize I'm looking at an English word until I give it some thought.
[11:47:37] <Rottingbeef> Yesterday I looked up the word "homesick" in my dictionary and I saw something like "homushikku." I said it a couple of times trying to get a feel for it, and then finally realized it's just katakana English (or "katakana Eigo").
[11:48:24] <Rottingbeef> (I'm not really homesick, though. I just was curious.)
[11:49:54] <Rottingbeef> I kind of miss being able to have small-talk with everyone, I guess.
[11:51:55] <Rottingbeef> Hey, cool. Dan Simpson updated his Ultima 7 walkthrough as recently as April 18, 2009.
[11:53:20] <Rottingbeef> I've used his walkthroughs since I was a kid.
[11:53:35] <Rottingbeef> Maybe he'll Google his name one day and see these logs and my words will make him feel old.
[11:53:43] <Rottingbeef> Old and famous.
[11:56:16] <wjp> wow, new things are still being found I guess
[11:56:32] <Rottingbeef> Has he ever come to this channel or been involved with Exult?
[11:56:57] <Rottingbeef> I always found his walkthroughs entertaining (not to mention useful).
[11:56:59] <wjp> I don't remember
[11:58:22] <Rottingbeef> Are you still involved with Pentagram much these days?
[11:58:56] <wjp> pentagram hasn't seen much activity the last year
[12:01:48] <Rottingbeef> Not too long before I left for Japan, I tried playing through Ultima 8 using Pentagram for the first time. It worked really well, but I got distracted and never completed the game.
[12:02:11] <Rottingbeef> I've never even completed the game before. I used to just mess around in it when I was a kid, or just watch my brother mess around in it.
[12:04:12] <Rottingbeef> Right now I'm reading about some of the original MMOGs, like Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Asheron's Call, and it's fascinating to me that they are still running. I wonder how much longer they will last, but I'm also curious to know who at this point has been playing the games for the longest time.
[12:05:07] <Dominus> that would be interesting :)
[12:06:03] <Rottingbeef> Did you get into Ultima Online much at all?
[12:10:10] <Dominus> Oh yeah, so much that after three months of playing it (1999 I think) I had to quit cold turkey :)
[12:11:03] <Dominus> you could say that my first semester in university was shot by UO :)
[12:14:11] <Rottingbeef> I played Nexus: The Kingdom of the Winds for some years before Ultima Online took me away from it!
[12:15:07] <Dominus> how long did you play UO?
[12:15:30] <Rottingbeef> I think I played it regularly for the better part of a year, and then on and off for a year or so.
[12:15:43] <Rottingbeef> I sometimes returned to it for spurts of two or three weeks, but I could never fully immerse myself into it.
[12:16:05] <Rottingbeef> Which university did you go to?
[12:16:21] <Dominus> Vienna, Austria
[12:16:46] <Rottingbeef> Universitt Wien?
[12:16:53] <Dominus> yup
[12:17:15] <Rottingbeef> I visited the site and looked at their grad school programs a couple of times. :)
[12:17:46] <Rottingbeef> Of course my inability to speak German would render any pursuit of a degree from the university moot...
[12:18:09] <Dominus> :)
[12:18:19] <Rottingbeef> What did you study there?
[12:19:06] <Dominus> never finished anything there :)
[12:19:26] <Dominus> UO was not the last of the things that would take my attention :)
[12:20:02] <Dominus> my default answer is mostly, let's not talk about it...
[12:20:09] <Rottingbeef> K, I won't pry. :)
[12:20:45] <Rottingbeef> I burned out on MMOGs before I finished high school.
[12:21:01] <Rottingbeef> Just as everyone was getting into World of Warcraft, I had already been done with them for a few years.
[12:22:46] <Dominus> yeah, for me WoW was always, been there, done that, I know it is going to make me addicted and waste time on it for nothing :)
[12:24:30] <Rottingbeef> Do you still live in Austria?
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[12:26:40] <Rottingbeef> Hello!
[12:29:46] <Dominus> oh, yeah, originally I'm from southern Germany but got stranded in Austria :)
[12:30:23] <Dominus> sorry, doing other stuff as well and not keeping the channel in focus :)
[12:30:43] <Rottingbeef> No problem. I'll let you go. I should get working on other things too, myself.
[12:30:46] <Rottingbeef> Talk to you later!
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[16:22:19] <Dominus> hey marzo
[16:22:26] <Marzo> Hi
[16:23:12] <Dominus> got some testing done, as you've probably read already :)
[16:23:35] <Marzo> I am reading it now
[16:27:36] <Dominus> only thing bothering me is that Windows ME is using a seemingly totally different location than the other W9x and the NTbased Windows
[16:28:20] <Marzo> Blame that on the WinMe shell32.dll
[16:28:23] <Marzo> :-)
[16:28:39] <Dominus> oooookkaayyy :)
[16:28:57] <Marzo> It might be possible to get something similar for some versions of 9x
[16:29:15] <Dominus> it would have been much nicer to just say all Win9x do it like that and all others like this :)
[16:29:47] <Dominus> On the other hand Windows ME is similar to U8 and U9, no one seems to really like it :)
[16:30:03] <Marzo> I know of exactly *one* person that liked it
[16:30:16] <Marzo> Everyone else I know hated it
[16:30:38] <Dominus> count me in, for the brief time I used it before changing to W2k, it really worked nicely on my PC back then
[16:30:56] <Dominus> it was the most well behaved W9x on that PC
[16:31:13] <Dominus> on the next PC it didn't really run at all :)
[16:31:20] <Marzo> That is more a matter of hardware than anything
[16:31:27] <Dominus> I know
[16:31:49] <Marzo> I had two computers with nearly identical configuration, both with Win95 then Win98
[16:31:59] <Marzo> One crashed four or five times a day
[16:32:20] <Marzo> The other crashed maybe once or twice in four years
[16:33:01] <Marzo> One day we swapped out the RAM from both computers in an attempt to determine what was causing all the crashes
[16:33:29] <Marzo> Oddly enough, both computers were stable from then on...
[16:33:34] <Dominus> he he
[16:34:23] <Marzo> One of them still works to this day
[16:34:36] <Marzo> The other had a power overload and fried
[16:35:07] <Marzo> Anyway, it is lunch time; I'll be back later
[16:35:21] <Dominus> have a good lunch :)
[16:35:29] <Dominus> got to talk to you later :)
[17:16:57] <Dominus> https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2770632&group_id=2335&atid=102335 bug about combat AI is annoying
[17:17:24] <Dominus> I just tried the save game of https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=2332759&group_id=2335&atid=102335
[17:18:01] <Dominus> when you are sent to the Mountains of freedom. When the automaton comes out I was not able to attack him at all
[17:19:33] <Marzo> And I am back
[17:20:48] <Dominus> combat is really screwed somewhat it seems
[17:22:33] <Dominus> anyway, first of all I wanted to ask you what you think of making the portable function (old style of exult.cfg, savegames… location) be a command line option instead of a compile option? This way it would be easier to test and for some people probably very conveneient
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[17:23:43] <Malignant_Manor> I like the command line idea much better than the build one.
[17:24:50] <Dominus> also found a nice installer bug in the tracker https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=1867323&group_id=2335&atid=102335 and was able to confirm it
[17:27:50] <Malignant_Manor> Either party formation looks horrible. Exult seems to have issues updating frames in the party members.
[17:28:39] <Malignant_Manor> Sometimes it is one or two members. Other times it is pretty much the whole party.
[17:30:37] <Malignant_Manor> It's like it updates in two locations at the same time.
[17:33:07] <Malignant_Manor> Also, occasionally a party member or two seems to get dragged along with the party instead of walking themselves.
[18:19:36] <Marzo> Making portability a command-line option will be a bit inconvenient: right now, Exult and ES begin redirecting stdout/stderr/etc before the parameters are processed
[18:20:47] <Dominus> I see that this is a problem, chicken-egg
[18:23:19] <Malignant_Manor> and you didn't like the directory cfg overide option
[18:24:16] <Malignant_Manor> But again, likely done before stdout/stderr/etc too.
[18:24:41] <Marzo> What directory cfg override option?
[18:24:49] <Malignant_Manor> Like DOSBox
[18:25:18] <Malignant_Manor> Program looks for cfg file in the same directory as the executable.
[18:26:40] <Marzo> DOSBox probably writes to its configuration files far less than Exult and ES do
[18:27:00] <Dominus> Dosbox never writes to it
[18:27:12] <Dominus> it only reads from it
[18:27:12] <Malignant_Manor> Like the command lines, but someone could screw it up for the rest of the users.
[18:27:14] <Marzo> (but strictly speaking, there is a -c configfile option in Exult already)
[18:28:05] <Malignant_Manor> I'm not sure how well it works with the current setup though.
[18:28:14] <Malignant_Manor> something to test.
[18:28:16] <Dominus> and does that work currently, with your changes? (I know *I'm the tester*)
[18:28:20] <Dominus> :)
[18:28:31] <Marzo> It would seem that it does, based on the code
[18:28:43] <Malignant_Manor> I'm not sure how it worked when opening ES from Exult.
[18:28:52] <Dominus> if that works then the only left overs are the std files
[18:28:59] <Marzo> Exult forwards the new configfile to Configuration::read_abs_config_file
[18:29:08] <Marzo> Hm. Opening ES from Exult may be a problem
[18:30:26] <Malignant_Manor> I'm thinking I might have encountered issues before, but I was altering some other stuff too.
[18:31:59] * Marzo thinks that it would be a problem either way, actually
[18:32:25] <Malignant_Manor> Are you going to make the common app data directory for separate Exult and Exult Studio installs?
[18:32:47] <Marzo> Probably not; seems that MS guidelines don't support this
[18:33:16] <Marzo> (read-only data like this is supposed to be in Program Files)
[18:34:25] <Malignant_Manor> That seems dumb for modular design utilizing common elements.
[18:35:15] <Marzo> There is supposed to be a "Common Files" under
[18:35:15] <Marzo> Program Files" for that purpose
[18:36:51] <Malignant_Manor> So, why not use that?
[18:37:11] <Marzo> The "joy" is that it does not exist for WinMe
[18:37:15] <Malignant_Manor> It is already being written to program files.
[18:38:02] <Marzo> I mean that the "Common Files" folder is not defined for WinMe
[18:39:05] <Malignant_Manor> Can't you use version to use it for NT Windows?
[18:39:28] <Dominus> report: exult -c cfgfile will not work with Exult Studio
[18:39:32] <Malignant_Manor> Have ME do it how it is now.
[18:39:45] <Malignant_Manor> @Dom, that's what I thought.
[18:40:06] <Malignant_Manor> I had two exult.cfg files for that reason.
[18:41:03] <Dominus> The common folder is there, though in Windows ME
[18:41:58] <Dominus> and Windows SE
[18:42:04] <Dominus> 98SE
[18:42:38] <Dominus> also in plain 98
[18:42:44] <Dominus> dinner time, bbl
[19:21:34] <Malignant_Manor> I'm getting tired of how Windows 98SE is telling me it supports new hardware and just want it to finish updating.
[19:40:04] <Malignant_Manor> Dominus, ommonProgramFiles% doesn't work in 98SE and probably not ME according to Marzo
[19:40:24] <Marzo> According to M$, actually
[19:42:11] <Malignant_Manor> I don't know how I missed not copying two characters though.
[19:44:13] <Malignant_Manor> But can't you just do a check for NT versions?
[19:59:05] <Marzo> The problem would be the installer, not Exult
[19:59:43] <Malignant_Manor> I thought inno could detect versions.
[20:01:54] <Malignant_Manor> MinVersion parameter.
[20:02:18] <Marzo> The problem is I don't know *where* it will end up installing the things in Win9x/Me
[20:02:27] <Marzo> (considering localizations and all)
[20:02:59] <Marzo> (and I may be wrong, but I don't think it supports installing files to different locations based on OS version)
[20:03:37] <Malignant_Manor> MinVersion
[20:03:39] <Malignant_Manor> A minimum Windows version and Windows NT version respectively for the entry to be processed. If you use "0" for one of the versions then the entry will never be processed on that platform. Build numbers and/or service pack levels may be included in the version numbers. This overrides any MinVersion directive in the script's [Setup] section.
[20:08:57] <Malignant_Manor> Also, OnlyBelowVersion function does the reverse.
[20:09:17] <Malignant_Manor> Sorry, I forgot to post that part.
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[21:00:16] <Dominus> yeah, I only wanted to let you know that "common folder" IS there on Win9x. BUT I have seen it screwed up in a thousand softwares :)
[21:06:34] <Dominus> the location of this directory is set in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion
[21:06:48] <Dominus> in the reg entry "CommonFilesDir"
[21:07:13] <Dominus> don't know if that is useable by Exult/installer/whatever
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[22:05:38] <Malignant_Manor> Marzo is your video card Nvidia?
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[22:38:32] <Malignant_Manor> Marzo, if you're there, I've got a patch you can try for the full screen issue.
[22:38:48] <Malignant_Manor> I have to wait awhile for it to compile for testing.
[22:39:34] <Malignant_Manor> I think sdl video driver should use the desktop resolution (0x0) for fullscreen.
[22:45:28] <Malignant_Manor> Also, your DOSBox problem should be fixed with fullresolution=0x0
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[22:57:18] <Marzo> Malignant_Manor: yes and yes
[22:58:17] <Malignant_Manor> I'm not sure where the proper place to make the resolution 0x0 in the Exult code though.
[22:58:25] <Malignant_Manor> My first thought failed.
[22:58:56] <Malignant_Manor> I think it is the proper solution though.
[22:59:32] <Malignant_Manor> I have my Nvidia card and driver that doesn't compensate so I can test a fix.
[23:00:21] <Malignant_Manor> Hopefully you have a good idea.
[23:01:12] <Malignant_Manor> There's 20 something instances where w, h are used.
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[23:39:54] <Malignant_Manor> I have to, once again, say I have no idea what the hell I am doing.
[23:59:15] <Malignant_Manor> 640 x 480 seems to be the minimum resolution NVIDIA allows in newer versions. Which would be why setting Exult at that resolution works.