#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 24 Mar 2002 (GMT)

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[00:39:40] * wjp has to go
[00:39:40] <wjp> bye
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[01:55:00] <ultimaIX> hello
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[08:22:32] * Darke paws in and looks around. "Hi all."
[08:28:19] * matt__ paws Darke
[08:28:55] * matt__ notices his name
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[08:29:11] * Darke wonders when matt__ grew paws.
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[08:58:58] <wjp> hi
[09:02:03] <Matt_O> WJP!!!!!
[09:02:10] <wjp> matto!!!!!
[09:02:11] <Matt_O> err...
[09:02:16] <Matt_O> wjp ... *unenthusiastic voice*
[09:02:31] <Matt_O> congrats on RC1
[09:03:07] <wjp> thx :-)
[09:04:37] * wjp is going to get some breakfast
[09:04:45] <Matt_O> good idea
[09:05:06] <Darke> Hi wjp.
[09:05:41] * Darke sweeps up the mess of enthusiastic exclamation marks.
[09:16:11] <wjp> b
[09:26:25] <wjp> hm, is monsnpcs.dat supposed to grow to 381Kb?
[09:33:02] <wjp> sheesh, is every monster ever created in there or something?
[09:33:04] <wjp> ugh...
[09:34:42] * Darke blinks. That does sound a bit large. "I suppose it's possible that monsters are created and saved, but the space is not over-written when new monsters are created. But it's a guess."
[09:35:15] <wjp> I wonder if that is the main reason why savegame tend to get huge after a while
[09:39:32] <Darke> It could be. I wouldn't know where in the code to look for it though to check. I would guess it would be either a problem with the 'temp' flag not being saved properly, or just the monsters that 'formerly' had a temp flag set not being flagged as 'ready for deletion', and deleted before they're saved.
[10:05:26] * wjp blinks... huh? this is strange... (I got the gamedat directory from "David and Tracy Alden")
[10:11:41] <Darke> What's strange?
[10:12:03] <wjp> well, it seems to contain (original) SI files, somehow
[10:12:45] <wjp> (not that that should matter to exult)
[10:21:09] * Darke blinks and shrugs, then nods.
[10:22:10] <wjp> anyway, it seems that the unzipping of the savegame failed at monsnpcs.dat
[10:27:49] * wjp will have to ask Colourless
[10:38:14] <Darke> Random question. Do you think we should branch off an 'experiemental' exult tree for post 1.0? Just so you can commit your changes to the usecode interpreter and have others use it and test it a little?
[10:38:33] <wjp> yeah
[10:39:15] <Darke> Then 'everyone else' just still works on the main tree for exult_studio and so on, then we just resync the experimental with all the changes from the main, once every week or so.
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[11:23:07] <wjp> hi
[11:23:14] <Dark-Star> hi
[11:25:36] <Dark-Star> any progress on sonarc?
[11:25:57] <wjp> I haven't looked at it anymore
[11:26:02] <wjp> don't know if Colourless has
[11:26:49] <Matt_O> if any windows users want to try out a game I am writing for senior project .. http://www.xmission.com/~redflame/entombed.zip
[11:28:40] <Dark-Star> entombed? sonds familiar to me...
[11:29:12] <Dark-Star> I think there was a game with the same name that I once played...
[11:29:14] <Matt_O> there may be other games with that name ..
[11:42:56] * wjp notices a small bug in the .zip loading function. Unfortunately it's unrelated to this problem :-(
[11:50:42] * Darke wonders if it crashed while saving, leaving a truncated .zip file.
[11:51:22] <Darke> Scratch that thought, I think the index is at the end of the zip file, so it shouldn't unzip at all.
[11:53:10] <Dark-Star> going again (eating)
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[12:20:08] <Darke> Hello, oh non-coloured one!
[12:20:15] <Colourless> hi
[12:29:25] <wjp> hi
[12:29:36] <wjp> Colourless: did you read the mails about that savegame problem?
[12:29:42] <Colourless> yeah
[12:29:58] <wjp> it looks like it fails to unzip files that are too big, or something
[12:30:04] <wjp> I don't have any problems with it here, though
[12:30:37] <wjp> with compression level 1 it only extracts the files before the 380Kb monsnpcs.dat
[12:30:48] <wjp> in compression level 2 it only extracts the files that aren't packed in the GAMEDAT file
[12:30:56] <Colourless> odd
[12:31:03] <Colourless> but it works for you?
[12:31:06] * wjp nods
[12:31:24] <wjp> oh, there was also a small bug that it didn't delete newgame.ver and exult.ver when using zipped games
[12:31:32] <wjp> but I just fixed that
[12:31:51] <wjp> he's using winME, btw
[12:31:57] <Colourless> what version of exult is he attempting to use?
[12:32:05] <wjp> rc1
[12:32:46] <wjp> his savegame is at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exult200bg.sav
[12:33:08] <wjp> brb
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[12:37:30] <wjp> b
[12:37:31] <wjp> hi
[12:37:46] <Fingolfin> hi
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[12:38:28] <Colourless> hi
[12:38:45] <Colourless> wjp: i just tested here with the rc1 binary, and it works fine
[12:39:12] <Matt_O> anyone know how to use 'sed' ?
[12:39:37] <wjp> Matt_O: depends on what you want to do with it
[12:39:57] <wjp> Colourless: strange
[12:40:06] <Matt_O> well you've got your s/regexp/regexp/ type command
[12:40:06] <wjp> is zlib linked statically?
[12:40:14] <Matt_O> I want to use the '/' in my regular expression
[12:40:20] <Matt_O> I have found out that I can do \/ and it works
[12:40:30] <Matt_O> but I would prefer to have something like "hi/there" instead
[12:40:33] <Matt_O> as opposed to hi\/there
[12:41:01] <wjp> you can use any character as delimiter
[12:41:12] <wjp> so you can say s^whatever^hi/there^
[12:41:19] <Matt_O> ooooooh
[12:41:28] <Matt_O> yes.. YESSSSS...
[12:41:33] <Matt_O> that should suit me just fine
[12:42:06] <Matt_O> yes! perfect!
[12:42:12] <Matt_O> you're a genius! hehe
[12:42:45] <wjp> I figured this out once from frustration of using regexps for filepaths... "leaning toothpick syndrome" it's called, I think :-)
[12:42:52] <Colourless> wjp: zlib is linked statically
[12:43:09] <Matt_O> yeah a filepath is what I am grappling with
[12:43:34] <wjp> Colourless: hm, strange
[12:43:49] <wjp> it appears to fail unpacking them without any warnings, too
[12:44:10] <wjp> I wonder what would cause that kind of behaviour
[12:45:21] <wjp> 16 bit overflow somewhere?
[12:45:34] <wjp> (no idea where, or why it wouldn't happen to us, though)
[12:46:05] <Colourless> i have no idea either
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[12:46:16] <Dark-Star> hi
[12:46:35] <wjp> wb
[12:46:39] <Colourless> hi
[12:46:48] <Dark-Star> I just tried to build pentagram but the bootstrap script fails :-(
[12:46:59] <Dark-Star> configure.in: 26: `automake requires `AM_CONFIG_HEADER', not `AC_CONFIG_HEADER'
[12:46:59] <Dark-Star> automake: configure.in: installing `./install-sh'
[12:46:59] <Dark-Star> error while copying
[12:46:59] <Dark-Star> automake: configure.in: installing `./mkinstalldirs'
[12:46:59] <Dark-Star> error while copying
[12:46:59] <Dark-Star> automake: configure.in: installing `./missing'
[12:47:01] <Dark-Star> error while copying
[12:47:03] <Dark-Star> automake: no `Makefile.am' found or specified
[12:49:24] <wjp> is the directory writable?
[12:49:56] <Dark-Star> yep. I also tried running as root but without success...
[12:50:23] <Dark-Star> those "errors while copying" only appeared the first time I ran bootstrap.
[12:50:47] <Dark-Star> if I run it again I only get:
[12:50:56] <Dark-Star> Initial preparation...this can take awhile, so sit tight...
[12:50:56] <Dark-Star> configure.in: 26: `automake requires `AM_CONFIG_HEADER', not `AC_CONFIG_HEADER'
[12:50:56] <Dark-Star> automake: no `Makefile.am' found or specified
[12:50:56] <Dark-Star> Copying Makefiles...
[12:50:56] <Dark-Star> You are now ready to run ./configure ...
[12:51:02] <wjp> oh, that's ok
[12:51:17] <wjp> that's expected behaviour
[12:51:46] <Dark-Star> oh... thought it was an error. just noticed that "configure" got created anyway ;-)
[12:52:19] <Colourless> hmm, that save game works on win98 here too... i have no idea what the problem might have been
[12:57:37] <Dark-Star> ok thanks I'll be playing around a bit with pentagram now... bye
[12:57:41] <wjp> bye
[12:57:51] <Colourless> bye
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[13:09:24] <wjp> it works on my parents' win98 machine too
[13:19:15] <bj0ern> anyone know this one?: http://arkanae.tuxfamily.org/en/index.html
[13:20:35] <Darke> Nope. I've not seen that before. Interesting.
[13:20:58] <wjp> ah, that. Yes, seen it before
[13:21:18] <wjp> but since I didn't bother to set up 3D accel, it wouldn't run at more than 0.5 fps :-)
[13:21:22] <bj0ern> yes.. it was in the december issue of the German Linux Magazine.. but at that time i couldn't get it to run on my MacOSX powerbook
[13:25:41] <Darke> Weirdness of a different note. There's a 'Human Virus Scanner' here, that I ran through. http://totl.net/VirusScanner/ Apart from the fact that there was an Ultima Online symbol in there, there was also a little snippit from The Black Gate: http://totl.net/VirusScanner/images/blackgate.png <grin> I'm just trying to think of what conversation that is from.
[13:25:54] * Darke , FYI, is infected with the 'Ultima' virus. <grin>
[13:31:00] * wjp is infected with Ultima, Linux, UNIX and vi viruses
[13:31:12] <wjp> not to mention Sci-Fi, 8-bit, Windows, FreeBSD
[13:34:54] * Darke is infected with Pokemon (ick! hate the things, OTOP, he has a friend who happens to like... umm... let's not go there), Linux (expected), Junkfood (not really), Sci-fi, Free BSD (never touched it in my life), Gaming (was it _that_ obvious?), Amiga, BBCB (never had one), Religion (not really), 8-Bit, British (only if you mean Lord British), UNIX (duh)...
[13:35:19] <bj0ern> did i read Amiga?
[13:35:51] <Colourless> i can't test myself :-)
[13:36:04] <Colourless> i tried, but it it didn't give me results
[13:36:32] <Darke> Discordia (makes sense, or doesn't, it doesn't really matter), Windows (ick! get it away from me!), vi, Politics (ick, I like this about as much as I like windows), Brand Names (this too), X11, Computer Gmaes, Conspiracy Theory, Ultima, Environmentalism, and Macintosh.
[13:36:54] <Darke> Colourless: <blinkblink> Weird. Maybe it doesn't like you? <grin>
[13:37:08] <Colourless> maybe it doesn't like IE ;-)
[13:37:08] * Darke thinks he's rather infected with those creepy human virus things.
[13:37:21] <Darke> Colourless: It wouldn't surprise me. <grin> Use Mozilla instead.
[13:37:22] <wjp> you should go see a doctor :-)
[13:37:36] <Darke> wjp: A psycharist would probably be better. <grin>
[13:37:42] <wjp> :-)
[13:37:45] <Colourless> that is STILL a doctor
[13:37:46] <wjp> psycharist?
[13:37:56] * wjp inserts a few letters
[13:37:58] <Colourless> spelling :-)
[13:38:25] * Darke is allowed to make the occasional spelling mistake. Colourless does it all the time. <grin>
[13:39:12] <Colourless> don't you know, i just make up for everyone else lack of errors
[13:40:35] <Darke> As a nice example of _why_ having an above average IQ, doesn't mean you're any more intelligent... I offer you this: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:DQ65o0fCkpUC:community-2.webtv.net/Archure/Genius/+%2Bholley+%2Bgenius&hl=en
[13:46:56] <wjp> huh?
[13:47:39] * Darke wonders what you're 'huh'ing about. His random url insertion or the page itself. <grin>
[13:47:46] <wjp> the page :-)
[13:48:28] <Darke> Well, it's apparently a guy, who's ego has gotten so big, that he's got an above average iq, that he seems to need to yell it to the world.
[13:51:29] <Darke> He complains lower down the page about how he's got a such a wonderful IQ, but that no-one will employ him on the basis of it. I wouldn't either if he shoved his IQ in my face like that. <grin>
[13:52:04] <Colourless> :-)
[13:52:07] <Colourless> too true
[13:52:40] <Colourless> he really would be totally unsuitable for most workplaces
[13:52:49] <Darke> He's also got such a wonderful IQ, but is a member of the 'American Federation of Astrologers' too...
[13:53:05] <Colourless> i doubt he would follow orders to any real degree
[13:53:07] <Darke> Colourless: Yep. I don't see him getting along well with anyone. He'd be best doing a loner's job.
[13:53:13] * Darke nods. Agreed.
[13:53:51] <bj0ern> if he is so intelligent, why doesn't he start his own company and becomes a millionaire?
[13:53:55] <Darke> I'm trying to hunt down his `Take me out on a date! Please!` page. But I can't find it.
[13:54:22] <wjp> hehe :-)
[13:55:09] <Darke> I'm pretty sure it's guaranteed to turn off any female reading it. <grin>
[13:56:03] <Darke> Here we go: http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:-ShTxyBw35cC:community.webtv.net/BzzzyBee/Love/+%2B%22william+christopher+holley%22+%2Bgenius&hl=en
[13:56:47] <Darke> Page down to his Turn Ons/Offs and annoyances and you'll see what I mean. <grin>
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[13:59:56] <Colourless> hmm, you know, with that sort of attitude, he has no chance...
[14:00:00] <wjp> lol
[14:01:03] <Darke> Absolutely. <grin>
[14:02:39] <wjp> and he's 48? hmm, I would've placed him around 16-18
[14:02:52] <wjp> hm, OTOH...
[14:03:07] <wjp> no, I'm not sure how old I would've guessed him...
[14:03:38] * Darke would place his mental age about about 16 himself, and he guessed his physical age was about 40+.
[14:05:09] <Darke> I saw the picture just as I read the first line of that 'Genius' page and the first thing that came to mind was Vizzini from 'The Princess Bride'. <grin> He certainly has the arrogance to match the role.
[14:05:27] * wjp hasn't seen that movie
[14:06:55] <Darke> Oooh, an online script with imbedded images from the movie, nice! http://www.tough.net/eempje/princess.htm
[14:11:17] * Darke thinks it has lots of quotes that are useful on a regular basis. <grin>
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[14:33:34] <Fingolfin> can anybody recommend a simple (for a newbie) easy to use FTP client for windows?
[14:34:19] <wjp> no idea
[14:34:27] <bj0ern> FTP Explorer
[14:34:40] <bj0ern> works like the Windows Explorer
[14:34:45] <Darke> I tend to use the stock windows command line ftp client. A 'nice' (relative) graphical ftp client is CuteFTP. But it's shareware/adware.
[14:35:07] <bj0ern> FTP Explorer is Free.. WFTP is nice too
[14:35:13] <wjp> windows commander has a built-in ftp client. (shareware)
[14:35:20] <bj0ern> best commandline FTP is NCFTP
[14:35:38] <Fingolfin> freeware would be nice, will look
[14:36:14] <bj0ern> (i hope its still free ;) )
[14:37:55] <Matt_O> Fingolfin: CuteFTP is nice for Windows
[14:38:07] <Matt_O> it's nag/disable ware though.. hehe
[14:38:20] <Matt_O> LeechFTP is decent and it's free I believe
[14:38:34] * Matt_O has finally got dependencies working w/ his Makefiles
[14:38:36] <Matt_O> what a nightmare!
[14:40:50] <wjp> http://www.jpmorris.force9.co.uk/exdrug.gif
[14:41:51] <Colourless> so, does somenone want to fix 'that' :-)
[14:42:52] <wjp> if (width > 32) width = 32;
[14:42:55] <wjp> there, fixed
[14:43:17] <wjp> :-)
[14:43:40] <Colourless> nooo :-)
[14:43:51] * Darke snickers.
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[14:58:35] <bj0ern> re
[14:59:30] * Darke bows.
[14:59:47] * Darke notices a few new bugs in the tracker.
[15:00:25] <Fingolfin> we settled for Win Explorer, thanks =)
[15:01:48] <bj0ern> ftp explorer?
[15:04:17] <Fingolfin> yeah I meant that
[15:04:27] <Fingolfin> now, anybody can recommend a simple HTML editor? free if possible =)
[15:05:31] <bj0ern> notepad =)
[15:05:32] <bj0ern> vi
[15:05:46] <wjp> s/vi/emacs/ ;-)
[15:05:55] <bj0ern> *bonk*
[15:05:55] * Darke would recommend ultraedit. But it's shareware and the equilivant of suggesting 'vi', like it looks like others have decided to. <grin>
[15:06:07] <Darke> www.ultraedit.com, fyi.
[15:06:23] <Fingolfin> wjp: it's somebody who previously used word to edit his web pages....
[15:06:40] <wjp> eek
[15:06:49] <wjp> notepad? :-)
[15:06:57] <Darke> Fingolfin: Umm... the editor inbuilt with Mozilla?
[15:07:02] <bj0ern> yeah
[15:07:05] <Fingolfin> well, I just saw that he was given a copy of NetObject Fusioin 3.0 =)
[15:07:07] <bj0ern> Netscape/Mozilla
[15:07:12] <bj0ern> ah
[15:07:18] <bj0ern> Fusion is neato, but not easy
[15:07:31] <Fingolfin> never used it, no idea
[15:07:35] <Fingolfin> I use BBEdit or sometimes Golive
[15:07:39] <Darke> {Netscape|Mozilla} Composer.
[15:07:41] <Fingolfin> BBEdit = text ediotr =)
[15:07:48] <bj0ern> i dont like BBEdit
[15:10:08] <Fingolfin> it's the best editor out there (at least for MacOS X)
[15:10:29] <bj0ern> they say its good for programming.. i dont see that.. i think the project builder is better there
[15:10:44] * Darke hmms... it doesn't look like Composer handles CSS editing.
[15:10:48] <Fingolfin> project builder is ass slwo
[15:11:07] <Fingolfin> plus it supports only very few languages, and that support is even sometimes bugged
[15:11:16] <Fingolfin> i..e the function browser popup is worthless
[15:11:39] <Fingolfin> and I am using PB every day :-)
[15:11:56] <bj0ern> function browser works perfect here
[15:12:07] <bj0ern> and the only support i need is C/C++. so its just fine
[15:12:25] <bj0ern> and i didnt see anything like a function browser or project managemant in BBEDit
[15:12:32] <bj0ern> is that just in the registered version?
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[15:13:13] <Dominus> hi
[15:13:17] <Darke> Hi.
[15:13:59] <Fingolfin> function browser is in BBEdit, and I can do project managment, though I don't use it for that
[15:14:08] <Fingolfin> but I have to work with other stuff besides C/C++
[15:14:10] <bj0ern> Dominus.. hmm , reminds me of this old amiga strategical/adventure/roleplaying game
[15:14:16] <Fingolfin> also, PB is *SLOW*
[15:14:31] <bj0ern> yup, its slow, true..
[15:14:41] <Fingolfin> it's really hindering my work flow due to that
[15:14:42] <Dominus> :-)
[15:15:40] <Fingolfin> hi Dominus
[15:15:47] <Colourless> hi
[15:16:18] * Dominus is just reading the logs to see if there is something interesting :-)
[15:20:59] <Darke> Dominus: There's a lot of boring signal, then there's a large chunk of conversation where I added some interesting noise, then a fration more signal, and some more noise, somewhat more boring this time. That about sums it up. <grin, duck>
[15:21:28] <Dominus> yeah, i see that
[15:21:52] * Darke , however, must disappear off to sleep, before Colourless kicks him for being 'too noisy'. <grin> "Night!"
[15:22:03] <Dominus> night
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[15:24:55] <Dominus> from the bug tracker I've got this idea that it would be neat for exult if you could specify the savegames/gamedat dirs (so you could have the game on CD-Rom for example and only the dirs that need to be written to on hard disk)
[15:30:06] <Colourless> we 'could' do that pretty easily
[15:30:15] <Colourless> and it's already how i have things set up in pentagram
[15:30:55] <Dominus> I think that would be preferred way of doing it
[15:31:47] <Dominus> leaving the setting on default normally but being able to change it
[15:31:57] <bj0ern> nice.. i could share a savegamedir between my desktop and notbook ..
[15:32:00] <bj0ern> then
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[16:24:06] <Dominus> wjp
[16:24:10] <Dominus> eh,
[16:24:39] <Dominus> why is the everlasting goblet still called bottle even though in obj.cc it is correctly named?
[16:25:32] <Dominus> objs.cc line 1154
[16:26:30] <Dominus> oops this is just a comment
[16:26:33] <Dominus> sorry
[16:43:12] <Colourless> wjp: i've been staring at quite a bit disassembled code lately, and it occured to me that the was the u8 usecode stack worked is exactly the same as the x86 stack
[16:48:16] <Colourless> the statements like varFE in the disasm output are actually offsets from the stack base pointer (ebp) when the function was called. the stack also grows downwards
[16:48:49] <Colourless> so instead of writing varFE we could instead write somethingl ike ebp-02
[17:02:44] <wjp> hm, didn't I tell you that?
[17:02:58] * wjp could've sworn he did
[17:03:02] <Colourless> you might have, but i've just forgotten
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[19:47:46] <wjp> Colourless: the compression level 0 saves did work for him. (re. that zipped savegame problem)
[19:48:05] <Colourless> hmm,
[19:48:13] <Colourless> no idea what the problem is
[19:48:29] <Colourless> all i could guess is full disk
[19:48:37] <wjp> that wasn't it
[19:48:41] <wjp> (was my first question too)
[19:49:01] <wjp> also, if that was it, it would abort with a write error
[19:51:33] <wjp> it will ignore files greater than 2Gb, but that shouldn't really be a problem...
[19:53:21] <wjp> the only reason I can think of why it would skip all files from a certain point (without giving an error) would be a bug in zlib
[19:53:26] <wjp> (or minizip)
[19:53:57] <Colourless> but it's also not working with 0 as well, so it's not zip
[19:54:08] <wjp> no, it does work with 0
[19:54:30] <Colourless> ah, oops, read the wrong thing before
[19:54:53] <Colourless> maybe a memory allocation is failing
[19:55:15] <wjp> could be, although the sizes aren't really all _that_ big
[19:55:23] <wjp> only 50Kb, in one case
[19:55:25] <Colourless> it *shouldn't* but i've have win98 do some strange things
[19:55:50] <wjp> (he's using ME, btw. Not that that's really different from 98, I guess)
[19:56:41] <wjp> how about sprinkling cerr's all over restore_gamedat_zip?
[19:58:38] <Colourless> hmmm
[20:00:27] <wjp> also, a check on the return value of unzGetCurrentFileInfo?
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[21:09:46] <DraX> morning
[21:09:55] <wjp> hi
[21:10:10] <DraX> heh, glade
[21:10:12] <DraX> i have not.
[21:10:21] <DraX> needed to compile objbrowse.cc
[21:10:29] <DraX> so i can't really generate a freebsd package
[21:10:35] <DraX> sense when is glade required?
[21:11:12] <wjp> well, technically it's only needed for exult studio, but something went wrong with dependencies, I think
[21:11:47] <DraX> if i remove mapedit from the make file
[21:11:53] <DraX> will it still compile
[21:11:58] <DraX> or is something in their needed
[21:12:02] <wjp> it should
[21:12:28] <DraX> ok, then i should have a freebsd4.5 binary ready soon
[21:14:25] <DraX> so hows Pentagram doing?
[21:15:46] <wjp> not much work going on on it
[21:15:51] <DraX> too bad
[21:16:03] <wjp> we've been messing with the sfx last week, though
[21:16:15] <wjp> (they're compressed in a slightly alternative way)
[21:16:44] <DraX> some people say that Fallout is a heavily modified u8 engine, but pentagram might lay the ground work for a fallout engine for SDL
[21:16:57] <DraX> if the u8 engine thing is true
[21:16:59] <wjp> fallout?
[21:17:16] <DraX> wjp, it's a post-apocolytic rpg game
[21:17:22] <DraX> with an engine like u7 and u8
[21:17:23] <wjp> yeah, I know (and love) it
[21:17:38] <wjp> but.. uh.. Fallout? u8?
[21:17:38] <DraX> it's such an awesome game
[21:17:50] <DraX> it didn't make sense to me either
[21:18:06] <wjp> sure it wasn't Crusader?
[21:18:17] <DraX> no it was u8
[21:18:19] <DraX> what is crusader?
[21:18:32] <wjp> a game based on a heavily modified U8 engine :-)
[21:18:36] <DraX> heh
[21:19:44] <DraX> any good?
[21:19:52] <wjp> dunno, never played
[21:19:54] <wjp> it
[21:20:18] <DraX> heh, all i remeber from u8 is it was very buggy
[21:20:27] <DraX> but that it was really fun to play(at times)
[21:21:08] <wjp> Crusader was (even) more action-oriented than U8
[21:21:13] <wjp> Sci-Fi setting
[21:21:41] <DraX> i've always disliked the fact that there are so few good sci-fi rpgs
[21:21:58] <Colourless> fallout used the engine that would later be known as the inifinty engine used by baldurs gate, planescape torment and icewind dale AFAIK
[21:22:24] <wjp> really?
[21:22:38] <DraX> i've never played any of them
[21:24:09] <DraX> heard baldurs gate is fun though
[21:24:15] <wjp> yeah, it is
[21:24:19] <Colourless> wjp: yeah... at least 'part' of the fallout engine were used infinity. some of the file formats used by them are the same
[21:24:19] <wjp> planescape too
[21:24:35] <wjp> ah, I see
[21:25:07] <wjp> PS:T was really fun. It's supposed to run in Wine, so maybe I should try it again sometime
[21:25:26] <Colourless> bg 2 is better than bg 1
[21:25:31] * wjp suddenly remembers he's still in the middle of a game of BG2:ToB
[21:25:42] * wjp should finish that sometime, too
[21:25:51] <DraX> how is fallout 2?
[21:26:00] <Colourless> heh, i can kind of relate to that
[21:26:14] <wjp> kind of the same as 1. If you liked 1, you'll like 2
[21:26:45] <wjp> ToB is _so_ silly at times... you can buy +3 swords at common shops... bah
[21:27:03] <Colourless> i stopped playing bg2 for about 4 months, before I ended up completing it
[21:27:11] <wjp> played ToB?
[21:27:27] <Colourless> wjp: if you are talking to me, yes
[21:27:32] <wjp> finished it too?
[21:27:48] <Colourless> yes
[21:27:55] * wjp is stuck somewhere... uhh...
[21:27:57] <wjp> *thinks hard*
[21:28:09] <DraX> binary is linking
[21:28:26] <wjp> oh, right, I just arrived at some village behind the desert or something
[21:28:26] <DraX> ./exult: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (FreeBSD), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped
[21:28:31] <DraX> woohoo!!
[21:28:40] <wjp> right after killing what's-his-name (mr. "immortal" fire giant)
[21:28:46] <Colourless> oh
[21:29:36] <wjp> DraX: yay! Looks like we have a FreeBSD binary before a Redhat binary :-)
[21:29:55] <Colourless> you'll need to ask around to find the directions to the other 2 bhaal spawn
[21:29:55] <DraX> once i get home i'll test it, and then i'll email a link up to the list to post
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[21:30:13] <wjp> hey, no spoilers :-)
[21:30:21] <DraX> ugh
[21:30:24] <DraX> ok, build finished
[21:30:27] <DraX> will test soon
[21:30:38] * wjp nods
[21:30:55] <Colourless> hehe, i could really spoil it for you :-)
[21:31:02] <wjp> Ooooh! Shiny ones! ;-)
[21:31:28] * DraX goes to find a walk through so he can post the juicy bits
[21:31:37] * wjp sticks some duct tape over DraX' mouth
[21:31:39] <DraX> sense i've never played
[21:31:53] <Colourless> you know, he makes good stuff, but is still damn annoying :-)
[21:32:15] <wjp> Look through your belongings must I
[21:33:15] <Colourless> what class are you? what level?
[21:33:23] <wjp> ugh, I dunno...
[21:33:33] <wjp> well, I know the class part (Paladin)
[21:33:48] <wjp> party consists of... *thinks*
[21:33:55] <wjp> Jaheira, Imoen
[21:34:04] <wjp> that cleric guy
[21:34:25] <wjp> the mage from that castle subplot
[21:34:33] <wjp> (as you can see I'm really great with names :-) )
[21:34:36] <Colourless> mage is that Edwin
[21:34:41] <Colourless> err
[21:34:44] <wjp> no, female mage
[21:34:49] <DraX> heh, i've been playing might and magic 6
[21:34:49] <Colourless> oh,
[21:34:54] <wjp> oh, and the halfling fighter
[21:34:56] <Colourless> Nadia
[21:35:02] * wjp nods. Nadia
[21:35:08] <Colourless> Mazzy
[21:35:12] <wjp> yeah
[21:35:22] <Colourless> no clue who
[21:35:27] <Colourless> cleric guy is though :=)
[21:35:29] <wjp> Ako.. Azo... ugh...
[21:35:38] <wjp> Sir something
[21:36:58] <Colourless> my party consists of Korgan, Sarevok, Viconia, Jan Jansen and Edwin. My char is a Bard, Neutral Evil, and i finished at level 38
[21:36:59] <wjp> Yaga-Shura... Amkethran
[21:37:25] <wjp> evil eh?
[21:37:33] <Colourless> yep
[21:37:42] * wjp doesn't recall Viconia or Jan Jansen
[21:37:56] <wjp> or Korgan, for that matter
[21:38:04] * wjp isn't entirely sure about Edwin, either
[21:38:11] * wjp remembers Sarevok, though ;-)
[21:38:34] <Colourless> edwin is Mae-var's mage (shadow thief)
[21:38:44] <wjp> Mae-var?
[21:39:09] <wjp> hm, was he from BG1 too?
[21:39:18] <wjp> Sir Anomen, I think
[21:39:20] <Colourless> yeah he was in bg
[21:39:22] <wjp> (the cleric, I mean)
[21:39:33] <wjp> hm, in.... that city with the mines?
[21:39:45] <Colourless> can't remember :-)
[21:39:52] <wjp> or was that Minsc who was there
[21:39:53] <Colourless> too looong ago
[21:39:57] <wjp> ugh... foggy memory... :-)
[21:40:22] <Colourless> Minsc was there, and Edwin was attempting to kill Dinaheir (sp?)
[21:40:32] <wjp> what classes are your party members, btw?
[21:40:33] <-- DraX has left IRC ("bye? ..(sph)")
[21:41:03] <wjp> ah, right, at the gnoll fortress or something
[21:41:19] <Colourless> Korgen = Beserker, Sarevok = Fighter, Viciona = Clerin, Jan = Thief/Illusionist, Edwin = Conjurer
[21:41:38] <wjp> I don't have any real thieves, kind of annoying
[21:41:42] <Colourless> might be wrong with the type of mage that Edwin was
[21:42:00] <wjp> Imoen and Nadia are both thieves, but they both dual-classed to mages
[21:42:36] <Colourless> i don't know how I would have managed without a thief
[21:42:46] <wjp> I miss those huge backstab bonusses
[21:43:22] * wjp wonders if there are any good thieves around
[21:43:24] <Colourless> i would miss 'spike traps' :-)
[21:43:33] <wjp> (good in both alignment and stats...)
[21:43:42] <wjp> spike trap? is that a high level abililty?
[21:44:05] <Colourless> yeah it's a higher level ability.
[21:44:27] <Colourless> 20D6, no save
[21:44:29] <wjp> ...speaking of which... I like those high level spells :-)
[21:44:32] <wjp> planetars rule :-)
[21:44:42] <wjp> good god... 20D6?
[21:44:47] <Colourless> yeah
[21:45:29] <wjp> time trap looks nice too
[21:46:30] * wjp is just browsing through the manual
[21:48:13] <bj0ern> new AD&D rules?
[21:48:14] <Colourless> oddly enough, i actually found the use any item ability to be fairly useless. everything I equiped on myself couldn't have been worn by me anyway... except the belt of strength that i was using
[21:48:14] <wjp> *sigh*... I don't like the way serialization is done currently
[21:48:30] <wjp> s/couldn't/could/ ?
[21:48:46] <Colourless> yeah :-)
[21:48:52] <wjp> hm, it's a prerequisite for scribe, but that doesn't sound that good either
[21:49:05] <wjp> bj0ern: BG2: Throne of Bhaal
[21:49:26] <wjp> (so partly about the new AD&D rules, I guess :-) )
[21:49:29] <bj0ern> i think i should get it too. i have it for PC, but for mac would be nice too
[21:49:37] <bj0ern> do you guys play it in MP?
[21:49:39] <Colourless> it's modified AD&D2
[21:49:47] <Colourless> nope, no mp
[21:50:00] <wjp> no mp here either
[21:50:13] <bj0ern> understandable.. the baldurs gate series isn't good at MP
[21:50:23] <bj0ern> i hope NWN will be better
[21:50:31] <Colourless> nwn is meant to be played multi
[21:50:40] <bj0ern> yeah
[21:51:00] <bj0ern> but its not a persistent world as i first imagined.. its more like many small scenarios
[21:51:33] <bj0ern> don't know how big a campaign in NWN can be
[21:51:53] <Colourless> persistant modiyable world would be very very difficult to make
[21:52:45] <bj0ern> maybe.. but i thought it would mor be like those UO free shards. where the GMs can modify the world a little
[21:53:41] <bj0ern> after all you can hop between the servers, which is a good way to visit a lot of dungeons and campaigns =)
[21:55:32] <Colourless> i wonder how they are going to manage to handle character importing from BG2 into NWN. they said it will be done, but NWN uses a different scheme for character generation
[21:55:47] <bj0ern> oh, that would be cool
[21:58:15] <bj0ern> i hope they will implement some sort of item generator like D2.. i wouldnt like it if every lvl XX archer is running around with the same bow because its the best you can get
[21:58:41] <wjp> umm.. that's exactly what happened in D2 ;)
[21:59:20] <wjp> well, D2X, techinally
[21:59:26] <bj0ern> ah well. for the standard items, maybe.. it could be more random.. you can find decent random items in D2 too
[21:59:27] <wjp> technically
[22:00:18] <bj0ern> i just experience the weird world of "wget" ... my download is at 131%
[22:00:51] * Fingolfin just joins in so he missed all the start but: what about NWN, anyway? do they still live? they broke with their distrbutor, didn't they?
[22:00:53] <wjp> that's not wget's fault
[22:01:12] <wjp> some servers seem to mess up total filesize and remaining filesize
[22:01:34] <bj0ern> in the new GDmag they state that the argues about NWN are settled
[22:01:43] <bj0ern> BioWare has a new distributor
[22:02:04] <Fingolfin> and the new distributos has the rights for D&D, too?
[22:02:14] <bj0ern> wait, ill go and look
[22:02:16] <Fingolfin> cause those went away with the former distributor...
[22:02:33] * Fingolfin forgot whot that was, some big player I think
[22:03:11] <Fingolfin> Infogrames is the new partner it seems
[22:03:27] <Fingolfin> and Interplay the old
[22:03:38] <Colourless> bioware and interplay came up with some agreement
[22:04:25] <Colourless> pretty much it doesn't actually mean anything in the end
[22:04:36] <bj0ern> Under the Terms of the settlement, Neverwinter Nights will be published worldwide by Infogrames, but the new agreement will be subject to certain pre-existing Interplay licenses.
[22:04:49] * Fingolfin wonders whatever happend to the Linux & MacOS versions of NWN...
[22:05:07] <Colourless> MacOS is meant to be released on the same day as Windows
[22:05:09] <bj0ern> well. what do you mean.. did they cancel the mac version?
[22:05:14] <bj0ern> ah
[22:05:17] <bj0ern> cool :)
[22:05:40] <Fingolfin> well
[22:05:41] <bj0ern> btw. i read thet NWN will be the first game which uses the new GF3 vertex shader
[22:05:54] <Fingolfin> just ask because the sys req page doesn't list anything besides the windows version anymore
[22:06:05] <Fingolfin> they used to list mac & linux there as well
[22:06:14] <Fingolfin> Colourless: where do they still mention MacOS/Linux ?
[22:06:31] <Colourless> hmm, there are a few games that use GF3 shaders
[22:06:55] <bj0ern> are they already out?
[22:06:59] <Colourless> Fingolfin: it's just what 'people' say
[22:07:01] <Colourless> bj0ern: yes
[22:07:07] <Fingolfin> uhhmm
[22:07:11] <Fingolfin> it used to be this way, yes
[22:07:22] <Fingolfin> then again, it wouldn'tbe the first time a company silently cancels its ports
[22:07:32] <bj0ern> that was pre-x-mas info.. well. maybe its not NWN anymore because they originally wanted it to be released at xmas
[22:07:34] <Fingolfin> I don't say this happend, but I am a bit worried since I see nothing on this anymore at all
[22:09:26] <Colourless> note the sys reqs says "The current Windows system requirements..." and also "Other OS requirements coming later"
[22:09:57] <bj0ern> hm
[22:15:58] <Colourless> it's about time i left
[22:16:06] <wjp> ok, night
[22:17:04] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("bye")
[22:17:16] <wjp> btw, Fingolfin: did you perhaps try Geneforge? (by spiderweb)
[22:17:51] <Fingolfin> nope
[22:18:08] * wjp didn't either
[22:18:34] <wjp> I might get it along with Avernum 3 (when that arrives, that is :/)
[22:18:39] <wjp> sounds like it could be fun
[22:19:22] <Dominus> I'm currently playing the Geneforge Demo and it is great
[22:20:45] <wjp> it looked like it used about the same engine as Avernum, right?
[22:20:59] <wjp> (which would mean it won't work in wine... grrr... :-) )
[22:21:08] <Dominus> yeah
[22:21:19] <Dominus> or maybe a bit different
[22:21:28] <Dominus> but basicly it is the same
[22:21:32] * wjp thinks spiderweb should use SDL...
[22:21:47] * Dominus thinks spiderweb should use Exult
[22:22:00] <wjp> :-)
[22:22:15] <Dominus> they are still using an engine like the u6 engine - they should bring it one step higher
[22:22:43] <wjp> nah, no real need for that
[22:24:22] * wjp wonders what to do about the current fixed-buffer-size serialization method
[22:24:54] <wjp> it's not really nice if you want to send debugging info back and forth
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[22:26:35] <Dark-Star> Hi
[22:26:49] <wjp> hi
[22:27:05] <wjp> is there something in the STL like an ostream that writes to a variable-length buffer?
[22:27:21] <Dominus> hi
[22:27:30] <Fingolfin> you could use sstream and the string buffers it provides
[22:27:35] <Fingolfin> however, then I'd have to shoot you
[22:28:02] <Fingolfin> since Apple's gcc for some weird reasons is missing that header (the "normal" gcc has it, and it even works here if I copy it manually).... <sigh>
[22:28:05] * wjp decides not to use sstream
[22:28:11] <Fingolfin> <g>
[22:29:33] <wjp> it shouldn't be too hard to write a small custom stringstream, though
[22:29:42] <Dark-Star> could you give me a quick introduction on how to use the pentagram viewers? All I get is a window that gets closed as soon as it is opened ...
[22:30:12] <wjp> Dark-Star: yes, the exception system is broken at the moment...
[22:30:17] <wjp> it usually means you're missing a file
[22:30:45] <wjp> make sure the paths in the config file are set correctly
[22:30:51] <wjp> (config file should just be in the current directory)
[22:31:11] <Dark-Star> well they *should* be set correctly. do I need a trailing slash
[22:31:36] <wjp> no
[22:32:14] <wjp> I guess I should just see what's wrong with the exceptions
[22:32:33] <Dark-Star> oh I didn't want to hurry you :-)
[22:32:42] <wjp> Fingolfin: do we actually catch exceptions?
[22:32:53] <Fingolfin> in main(), and in some other places, yes
[22:33:00] <Fingolfin> just grep for catch
[22:33:15] <Fingolfin> oh wait
[22:33:20] <Fingolfin> this is about p
[22:33:21] <wjp> pentagram :-)
[22:33:23] <bj0ern> wjp: that was a very eeeeevil question
[22:33:29] <Fingolfin> hm, I think not
[22:33:42] <Fingolfin> but it should be trivial to modify our common app class to do that for us =)
[22:33:49] <wjp> my thought exactly :-)
[22:35:32] <wjp> hm, there has to be a try {} around the constructor too
[22:36:07] <Dark-Star> btw, what should conf/confregress do? It just crashes with a segfault here...
[22:36:32] <wjp> it should test the conf/ library, but I'm not sure if it's supposed to still work
[22:36:50] <wjp> (regression tests)
[22:41:46] <Dark-Star> oh I think I found the problem... It's a german version again ;-)
[22:42:19] <wjp> hm, I didn't know we read any localization-dependent files yet
[22:42:23] <-- Matt_O has left IRC ("Play Dragon's Lair in linux - http://www.daphne-emu.com - Developers welcome :)")
[22:43:28] <Dark-Star> well... seems you're right, that wasn't the problem :-(
[22:43:59] <wjp> gdb should be able to catch the exceptions
[22:44:36] <Dark-Star> oh maybe it's because I need to run the game once to unpack u8shapes.cmp...?
[22:44:48] <wjp> ah... yes
[22:45:04] * wjp should really write a decompressor for that
[22:45:30] * wjp looks at time
[22:45:38] * Dark-Star searches for vmware...
[22:45:46] <wjp> hmm, I guess there's just about enough time left for that
[22:49:26] <Dark-Star> are you serious? you're "just writing a decompressor"? in a few minutes??? wow...
[22:49:32] * Dark-Star is seriously impressed
[22:49:42] <wjp> I was thinking more like an hour, actually :-)
[22:50:17] <Dark-Star> well, that's "a few minutes" if I compare it to how long it would take me ;-)
[22:50:32] <Dark-Star> since I don't even know the compression scheme
[22:51:02] <wjp> oh, it's kind of trivial really. They just removed the redundant header fields
[22:52:32] <Dark-Star> I hope I don't keep you away from doing important bugfixes/features for exult...
[22:52:56] <wjp> nah, just the usecode debugger
[23:11:25] <wjp> ugh.. this is going to be messy
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[23:31:36] <wjp> how peculiar... the compressed shapes are stored in reverse order
[23:31:47] <Dark-Star> ;-)
[23:32:11] <Dark-Star> to confuse hackers ?!?
[23:32:42] <wjp> :-)
[23:49:25] <Dark-Star> ok I'll be going now, have to get some sleep ... see ya!
[23:49:29] <wjp> bye
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