#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 24 May 2001 (GMT)

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[12:17:06] <wjp> Matt?
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[18:48:41] <dto> hi
[18:54:33] <Colourless> hi
[18:56:40] <dto> how ar eyou
[18:57:10] <Colourless> i'm ok
[18:58:16] <dto> I'm chilling out. Thought I would stop by, i think Exult is a great project... to preserve one of the finest games
[18:58:43] <Colourless> :)
[19:00:15] <dto> are you one of the people "in charge?"
[19:01:25] <Colourless> yeah, i'm one of the programmers
[19:01:51] <dto> cool. it must have been very tricky to write. I once read a document about the strange file formats of the maps/graphics
[19:03:12] <Colourless> It helps when other people have already figured most of it out. The hardest part is when no one has figured something out yet
[19:04:16] <Colourless> Some parts though just make no sense.
[19:08:45] <dto> for a long time I worked on designs for tile engines, wanting to eventually work up to a "fine-grained" one like U7, where objects could have shape instead of being flat
[19:10:42] <dto> I did a U6-style engine, but never did any games with it. I'm hoping to get back to game development sometime now that I've finished school.
[19:11:03] <dto> Anyway, has anyone thought about whether exult could be made to work on the Dreamcast?
[19:11:38] <Colourless> building up on top of an existing engine may not be a good idea. Starting out with your design to make a game like U7 would be best. Going from 2d to pseudo 3d is a big step
[19:11:59] <dto> (no, I meant just doing simpler engines each from scratch, to sort of prepare)
[19:12:10] <dto> but yes you're right.
[19:12:32] <Colourless> dto: that's what I meant. You already create the basic engine, then extend on top of it
[19:13:44] <Colourless> about dreamcast: it's probably not anything anyone has thought of. It might be possible, but I can't really say. Memory limitations might be a problem.
[19:14:58] <dto> I think it has about 16 or 24mb of system ram. I hadn't thought of that.
[19:15:34] <dto> So the project is becoming a platform of its own, kind of? To make new games? I find that a nice concept... the engine is a lot of fun and deals with a zillion world objects
[19:16:11] <Colourless> that's the idea. It's advancing fairly slowly though.
[19:16:34] <dto> currently how well does it play black gate?
[19:16:53] <Colourless> pretty well. Most things work. You can finish the game.
[19:18:05] <dto> I always used to think about creating a kind of tile-based interactive fiction engine, that would have completely portable data files (sort of like infocom code) and be able to run on multiple platforms as long as there was an interpreter. Never quite got around to it tho :-) had to work on college.
[19:18:20] <dto> but it is very inspiring to see people preserving u7
[19:19:27] <Colourless> Exult will be much like that. The games plot and conversations are run by the USECODE.
[19:19:44] <dto> is usecode like a little virtual machine?
[19:20:00] <Colourless> As long as exult is ported to a system (which there are quite a few at the moment), and game created using an unmodifed version of Exult, will run on every platform
[19:20:14] <Colourless> s/and/any
[19:20:40] <dto> Nice!
[19:20:49] <dto> BTW have any origin/ea folks ever bugged you about it?
[19:22:33] <Colourless> no. Jeff, the project leader, has tried to get some recognition from Origin/EA, but wasn't getting anywhere. Additionally his contact (LadyMOI) left Origin when UO2 was cancelled.
[19:32:49] <dto> oh :-(
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[20:04:53] <wjp> hi
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[20:05:37] <Colourless> hi
[20:06:18] <wjp> wow, lots of ML activity
[20:07:39] <Colourless> :)
[20:07:41] <Colourless> just a bit
[20:08:38] <chimera|wookin> hello there =]
[20:09:05] <wjp> chimera|wookin: "Pillars of Creation", nov 2001, in case you're interested ;-)
[20:09:11] <wjp> and hi :-)
[20:09:22] <chimera|wookin> wjp: November? ... =(
[20:09:56] <wjp> yeah, too long :-(
[20:10:56] <wjp> "If WJP and Ryan implement the on-screen health displays" <-- I didn't know we were going to do that? :-)
[20:11:08] <Colourless> :)
[20:11:15] <Colourless> we seem to do all the 'feature' adding
[20:11:39] <wjp> looks like it yes :-)
[20:11:39] <chimera|wookin> congratulations, you guys have been volunteered yet again hehe
[20:11:50] <wjp> need any artwork? ;-)
[20:11:56] <Colourless> nope :(
[20:12:05] <Colourless> that was actually meant to be a :)
[20:12:15] <wjp> good, don't need to hurry on the photoshop plugin then ;-)
[20:13:55] <wjp> "Actually, we've been spending all our time on mailing-list chat:-)" <-- quote? :-)
[20:14:24] <wjp> we haven't added any quotes for quite a while :-/
[20:15:10] <Colourless> perhaps
[20:16:02] <wjp> hmm, probably not that funny out of context
[20:16:51] <Colourless> two part quote?
[20:17:23] <Colourless> that would make it funny by putting it in context
[20:17:32] <wjp> :-)
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[20:19:21] <Dominus> yo hey
[20:19:23] <wjp> I have to go implement a neural net...
[20:19:26] <wjp> hi
[20:19:34] <Colourless> hi dom
[20:19:46] <Colourless> nerual net hey. One of my friends had to do that
[20:20:14] <wjp> just a simple one-hidden layer one. We should aim for ~100 LOC according to the assignment
[20:20:36] <Colourless> such things are way over my head :)
[20:21:02] <Dominus> colourless: some more on that status bar, how about a very small status bar over the heads of the monsters that are in combat mode (UO style9?
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[20:21:14] <freedman> Hey, everyone's here! Hi.
[20:21:16] <wjp> wow, it's getting crowded in here :-)
[20:21:19] <Colourless> hi Jeff
[20:21:19] <wjp> hi Jeff
[20:21:22] <Dominus> hi jeff
[20:22:10] <wjp> Colourless: it's really not that complicated... one page of theory is about all you need for this
[20:22:34] <Colourless> wjp: I know, my friend said it wasn't. I just know nothing about it
[20:22:55] <chimera|wookin> dominus!! freedman!!
[20:23:00] <freedman> Hi!
[20:23:09] <freedman> It is getting crowded!
[20:23:24] <wjp> Jeff: I read you volunteered Ryan and me for the health-bars ;-)
[20:23:53] <freedman> :-) It was your idea. You don't have to do it.
[20:24:00] <wjp> it was?
[20:24:02] <Dominus> actually Dancers
[20:24:07] <chimera|wookin> hehehe!
[20:24:09] <Colourless> wjp had nothing to do with it :)
[20:24:14] <freedman> Who posted the graphics sample?
[20:24:20] <Dominus> I think he wasnīt even there
[20:24:21] <wjp> Ryan
[20:24:21] <Colourless> I made thte graphic
[20:24:33] <Colourless> It was Nadir and me :)
[20:24:38] <freedman> Okay, so you volunteered.
[20:24:44] <wjp> I think this was brought up on the ML months ago too once
[20:24:45] <freedman> Sorry, got confused.
[20:24:50] <wjp> np :-)
[20:25:35] <freedman> I just keep fixing bugs, but more come in.
[20:25:55] <Dominus> Jeff: another suggestion to the status bar thing: how about a very small status bar over the heads of the monsters that are in combat mode (UO style)? (I just wrote this befor you popped in)
[20:25:56] <freedman> Someone added one about ships/deeds not working.
[20:26:41] <wjp> hmm, haven't tried ships in a while
[20:27:02] <freedman> Dom: Might be nice. Didn't Underworld also have some sort of indicator?
[20:27:03] <Dominus> and especially not other deeds than the one LB gives you
[20:27:32] <wjp> freedman: yeah, the eyes of the gargoyle on top of the screen would be green/yellow/red depending on the health of the monster you're fighting
[20:27:54] <freedman> Yes, that was really cool, along with everything else in that game.
[20:28:05] <Dominus> Jeff: It is getting hard to know how well monsters are especially in SI
[20:28:26] <Dominus> a shame I canīt get the Undeworlds to run in W2k :-(
[20:28:58] <freedman> Funny. They're supposed to be pretty well-behaved. I think they even ran in OS/2.
[20:29:10] <wjp> freedman: btw, I should have a photoshop plugin for the .shp format ready soonish
[20:29:38] <freedman> Nice.
[20:29:56] <Dominus> Jeff:They donīt run in NT or w2k and I am not the only one (see the Dragonīs NG)
[20:30:54] <freedman> Guess I'll always keep a Win95 machine around.
[20:31:06] <freedman> Either that, or try to reverse-engineer the UW's:-)
[20:31:50] <Colourless> TSSHP is doing that
[20:31:57] <Dominus> Yea, please do that (reverse engineering but I think a mod or something for DeusX should be fine) and they probably just need a patch
[20:31:59] <wjp> who?
[20:31:59] <Colourless> and System Shock 1 as well
[20:32:07] <Dominus> where?
[20:32:13] <freedman> Yes, where?
[20:32:20] <Dominus> wait I saw this one mentioned here before
[20:32:57] <Colourless> i'll see if I can find the url
[20:33:11] <Dominus> chimer|wookin or anybody else: ever read the Exiles series by Melanie Rawn?
[20:33:23] <wjp> any idea what the problem is with UW and NT btw?
[20:33:49] <Colourless> i'd imagine a memory problem
[20:34:10] <freedman> I wonder who owns the source to UW?
[20:34:17] <Colourless> System Shock runs fine in Win98 but dies in 2k
[20:34:19] <Dominus> nope, the guy who makes that sound emulator (also on SF) had a look into this as well and yes some memory problem that couldnīt be solved by any setting
[20:34:20] <wjp> looking glass is gone right?
[20:34:43] <chimera|wookin> yes
[20:34:46] <Colourless> yeah. Died 1 year ago today (or tomorrow depending on the part of the world you live in)
[20:34:46] <chimera|wookin> they are done
[20:35:06] <Dominus> chimera|wookin : do you know why that third book is takong sooooooooooooo long
[20:35:33] <Dominus> ahh, you have not been responding to me :-)
[20:35:53] <chimera|wookin> Dominus: eh?
[20:36:09] <chimera|wookin> Dominus: what 3rd book? hehe
[20:36:22] <Colourless> here is the TSSHP homepage. http://madeira.physiol.ucl.ac.uk/people/jim/games/sshock.html
[20:36:32] <Colourless> it's still got a LONG way to go
[20:36:43] <Dominus> Chimera: by Melanie Rawn in the Exiles series
[20:37:03] <chimera|wookin> Dominus: ooooohhhhh I see
[20:37:08] <chimera|wookin> Dominus: no I have not read it.
[20:37:14] <Dominus> :-) ok
[20:37:19] <wjp> I played Exile 3, does that count? :-)
[20:38:55] <Dominus> no, it doesnīt (and I played all of them :-))
[20:39:17] <wjp> oooh, did you finish 3? (/me is stuck)
[20:39:18] <chimera|wookin> isn't there a game based on the Riftwar Saga by Raymond E. Feist? hehe
[20:39:41] <freedman> By Sierra, maybe?
[20:39:49] <Dominus> wjp: I used the cheater :-)
[20:40:07] <Dominus> and some teleport cheat I figured out myself
[20:40:49] <wjp> Dominus: do you remember what you're supposed to do after wiping out the crystal souls near the end? (in the volcano's caldera)
[20:41:07] <Dominus> no idea, a long time back now
[20:42:17] <wjp> ok, pity :-)
[20:43:06] <wjp> freedman: sailing the Golden Ankh works for me
[20:44:46] <wjp> Trinsic's ship too
[20:48:01] <Dominus> I still canīt get the knighting to occur - meaning the banquet hall celeb
[20:48:58] <Dominus> somehow the flagg doesnīt get set that I brought the meat to Lucilla (though she took one of the three meats)
[20:49:43] <freedman> wjp: Thanks. It always worked for me before.
[20:50:29] <freedman> Dom: It worked for me before, but I haven't tried lately.
[20:51:03] <freedman> Have you been tattooed yet?
[20:51:37] <chimera|wookin> don't get tattooed.. it's poisonous
[20:52:02] <freedman> Not in Exult:-) Well, sometimes it is, but it's inconsistent.
[20:52:19] <wjp> freedman: isn't that the idea?
[20:52:21] <Dominus> I did all - furrier, brough the meat to lucilla, slept one day, took my cloak, got tattooed, went to the hall and nothing happened (yozu are supposed to click on the door, right?)
[20:52:46] <Colourless> double click
[20:52:46] <wjp> did you try leaving the area?
[20:52:56] <freedman> Dom: Yes, that's right.
[20:53:49] <freedman> wjp: Yes, there's scheduled usecode to repoison you. But if you save/restore in Exult, it no longer runs.
[20:54:08] <wjp> freedman: ah, I see
[20:54:49] <freedman> BTW, the Fawn trial works now. Kind of surprising, since 100's (1000's) of lines of Usecode go streaming by.
[20:55:00] <chimera|wookin> Fawn!
[20:55:03] <wjp> great!
[20:55:23] <freedman> I just have to let the Avatar open the door before walking through:-)
[20:56:18] <freedman> Colourless: I'm only seeing a couple of UNKNOWN intrinsics now, x85 and x86. Maybe SI is almost done?:-)
[20:56:31] <Colourless> what about spells?
[20:56:57] <chimera|wookin> SI? almost done?
[20:57:10] <chimera|wookin> doesn't it have to pass the "Dominus" test before it can be considered finished? hehe
[20:57:14] <Dominus> Jeff, wjp: leaving the area had no effect, I somehow suspect thatLucillaīs schedule doesnīt get updated (she always tells me to come back later when the shop is opened when I select to buy sth)
[20:57:28] <freedman> An exercise left to the reader. (Someone has to fill in the whole reagant table. I'll volunteer.)
[20:57:48] <wjp> s/reagant/reagent/ :-)
[20:58:00] <Dominus> only when the FAQ says itīs finished it is finieshed :-)
[20:58:08] <chimera|wookin> =]
[20:58:24] <freedman> So let's just say it's finished. Worked for Origin and U9!
[20:58:31] <Colourless> hehe
[20:58:36] <Dominus> :-)
[20:58:40] <wjp> 'worked' ? :-)
[20:58:40] <chimera|wookin> which Ultima was it that had a large chess board to the northwest of Britannia? was that U7 or U6 ...
[20:58:47] <wjp> chimera|wookin: U7
[20:58:48] <Colourless> 7!
[20:58:52] <chimera|wookin> cool!
[20:58:52] <freedman> Also, Myst3 is getting trashed in a review on Slashdot.
[20:59:15] <chimera|wookin> hehehe Myst sucks
[20:59:18] <Dominus> wasnīt there some easter egg ivolved in playing that chess game?
[20:59:30] <freedman> I liked the first one. But it was also really buggy.
[20:59:48] <wjp> you could actually play it?
[21:00:05] <wjp> (the chess game, that is)
[21:00:13] <Colourless> i looked at the rules and they made no sense to me, so i allways assumed no
[21:00:16] <dto> What is Usecode like? can you see source, or only compiled versions?
[21:00:26] <Colourless> only nicodemus and the timelord played it
[21:00:28] <wjp> dto: we have a disassembler
[21:01:08] <dto> nice. what kind of language is it
[21:01:08] <Dominus> chess game: I think I read sth about that if you played it right the chest would appear with something in it
[21:01:17] <Colourless> dto: for us it's asm
[21:02:07] <wjp> Dominus: I don't see any eggs nearby
[21:02:22] <Dominus> donīt ask me :-)
[21:02:38] <Colourless> actually saying it's asm is really true. it's just bytecode
[21:02:39] * wjp turns on map-editor-mode and tears the place apart
[21:02:39] <freedman> dto: For them I think it was C-like.
[21:04:51] <Colourless> so, does someone want to deesign a hardware usecode cpu? :)
[21:05:28] <wjp> lol
[21:05:36] <freedman> Well, I work for a PLD maker. If we can design it in VHDL, it's possible.
[21:05:54] <Colourless> we could probably have it done before sun finishes their java cpu :)
[21:05:55] <wjp> PLD? VHDL?
[21:06:27] <freedman> Programmable logic device. They've gotten big enough that people can emulate Z80's in them.
[21:06:44] <wjp> really? nice
[21:06:59] <freedman> VHDL is a Hardware Description Language, based on ADA.
[21:07:37] <chimera|wookin> hey maybe someone should tell Amy about this IRC channel so she doesn't need to use the mailing list.. hehe
[21:07:40] <freedman> What could we do with a Usecode chip?
[21:07:41] <chimera|wookin> j/k
[21:08:26] <Colourless> Hardware acceleration for Exult :)
[21:08:42] <freedman> An Ultima set-top box?
[21:08:43] <wjp> maybe that choppy mouse problem would be solved then :-)
[21:09:15] <Colourless> maybe. It would free some cpu cycles :
[21:13:31] <wjp> hmm, I wonder if disabling diagonal movement in barge mode would make it easier to control barges
[21:14:09] <Dominus> nope, hard to land a ship then
[21:14:26] <wjp> umm, wait, I phrased that wrong
[21:14:32] <Colourless> I think barge mode still uses the old style movement, not the new style i imiplimented just after joining the exult team
[21:14:50] <freedman> Colourless: That's right.
[21:14:50] <Colourless> I didn't do it for barge mode because that wasnt finished yet
[21:14:59] <chimera|wookin> the new improved style?
[21:15:01] <wjp> Colourless: how did you change it?
[21:15:39] <Colourless> old style is you move to where the mouse is, not the direction of the arrow. the new style is the same as the originals
[21:15:53] <chimera|wookin> oh I see
[21:16:11] <wjp> Colourless: right, that's what I meant
[21:28:49] <freedman> I better get my attention back to work. Later.
[21:28:53] <wjp> bye
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[21:51:40] <wjp> ok, that's the neural net
[21:52:04] <wjp> approximates the target function pretty well
[21:52:14] <wjp> which is (10*sin(x*x/3)+cos(x)+x*x)/47 :-)
[21:52:38] <Colourless> the point of that function is?
[21:52:50] <wjp> writing a neural net for it :-)
[21:53:09] <Colourless> so, otherwise, it's useless
[21:53:10] <wjp> no point other than that I'm afraid
[21:53:13] <wjp> yup
[21:54:59] <wjp> now we just need to write a 3 page report on this, and we're all done
[21:55:07] <wjp> but that can wait until tomorrow
[21:55:23] <Colourless> :)
[21:55:42] <wjp> (and not the kind of tomorrow that starts in 2 minutes ;-) )
[21:55:51] <Colourless> :)
[21:56:32] <wjp> anyway, I should go to bed... need to get up early
[21:56:39] <Colourless> ok
[21:56:40] <Colourless> cya
[21:56:43] <wjp> bye
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[23:24:56] <Dominus> wow, there is a nice flame war about copyrights in the rec.games.computer.ultima.series newsgroup. And it all started with Moscow Dragon (Max who did some of the pre-Exult usecode "outfiguring") writing where to get copies of Saveage Empire and Martian Dreams on the net
[23:25:31] <Colourless> heh
[23:25:47] <chimera|wookin> hehe
[23:25:55] <chimera|wookin> that's crazy
[23:26:15] <Dominus> it is, Fortran and Mdme Dis are quite active there
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