#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 25 Nov 2001 (GMT)

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[00:04:43] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[00:04:52] <matto> KIRBEN!!!!
[00:04:57] <Kirben> Hi
[00:06:15] <wjp> hi Travis
[00:07:37] <Fingolfin> hiya
[00:14:37] <wjp> btw, automake complains if there's no README file in the main exult dir
[00:15:29] <Kirben> ?seen colorless
[00:15:29] <exultbot> I haven't seen colorless lately
[00:15:36] <wjp> ...which is because we pass '--gnu' to automake
[00:15:38] <wjp> ?seen Colourless
[00:15:38] <exultbot> colourless left IRC around Sat Nov 24 23:33:27 2001 (GMT) ("[10:07]")
[00:15:43] <wjp> you just missed him
[00:15:56] <wjp> (well, 30 minutes or so)
[00:19:54] * Fingolfin yawns
[00:19:59] <Fingolfin> guess I better go to bed now!
[00:20:12] <wjp> goodnight
[00:20:15] <-- Fingolfin has left #exult ("Client Exiting")
[01:02:16] <-- matto has left IRC ("Play Dragon's Lair in linux - http://www.daphne-emu.com - Developers welcome :)")
[01:10:39] <wjp> I should go; bye
[01:10:41] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[02:16:03] --> matto has joined #exult
[02:28:31] <rovragge> anyone awake?
[02:28:40] <matto> yep
[02:29:19] <rovragge> seems that there is a bug in the cemetery in skara brae; if you accidentally get on a tombstone you cannot move, or something like that
[02:29:50] <matto> is that so?
[02:29:59] <rovragge> ehrm, or no.. right double-click fixed it
[04:35:59] <-- rovragge has left IRC ("\0")
[08:49:35] --> Wumpus has joined #exult
[08:55:09] <matto> wumpie!
[08:55:33] <Wumpus> hello matto :)
[09:20:11] --> Darke has joined #exult
[09:20:31] * Darke bows. "Hello all."
[09:33:29] <matto> greetings
[09:48:37] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("Reeeeeeboot! :( something broke")
[09:49:56] * matto nudges the comatose form of Darke
[09:52:12] <-- matto has left IRC ("Play Dragon's Lair in linux - http://www.daphne-emu.com - Developers welcome :)")
[09:53:27] --> matto has joined #exult
[09:57:51] --> Wumpus has joined #exult
[10:00:29] <Wumpus> hrmphm
[10:00:34] <Wumpus> i think the computer doesn't want me to use it tonight
[10:04:33] * Darke paws a rubber chicken to Wumpus to wave over his computer.
[10:10:04] <Wumpus> hehe :)
[10:29:51] * Darke paws Wumpus a voodoo doll in the shape of his computer, plus a few pins. He figures there's not much point being half hearted about getting his computer to work.
[10:30:29] * matto smells fluff
[10:31:47] * Darke would rather not smell matto.
[10:53:07] <Wumpus> oh its working
[10:53:24] <Wumpus> just did a couple of weird things that all
[11:09:17] --- Wumpus is now known as Wump_Away
[11:20:54] --- Wump_Away is now known as Wumpus
[11:32:12] --> wjp has joined #exult
[11:32:17] <matto> WJP!
[11:32:25] <wjp> matto!
[11:36:06] <wjp> so, who killed nickserv?
[11:37:09] <matto> I did
[11:37:23] <matto> actually I idn't know 'twas dead
[11:38:02] <wjp> OPN's new services don't seem to be really stable
[11:38:18] <Wumpus> there is a nickserv?
[11:38:24] <matto> is that right?
[11:38:27] <wjp> not atm, but yes
[11:38:42] * Wumpus seees its whowas... well waddayaknow :)
[11:40:36] * Wumpus tries to conjure a genie to clean his room
[11:40:48] <wjp> won't work.. I tried :-)
[11:43:38] <Darke> wjp: Well at least we haven't had a netsplit (or half a dozen) in a while. <grin> Oh, yeah, Hi!
[11:43:55] <wjp> hi :-)
[11:44:50] * wjp wonders if Windows will like the fact that there's now a 'docs/faq' directory and a 'docs/FAQ' file
[11:47:03] <Darke> wjp: IIRC it will quite happily have a directory and a file with the 'same' name. <grin> I remember being rather... startled coming from dos to find unix not allowing this.
[11:47:23] <Wumpus> huh?
[11:47:26] <Wumpus> how does that work?
[11:47:32] <Wumpus> (in windows)
[11:47:50] <Wumpus> or does it just do evil handwavy stuff and stick ~001 or whatever on the end of one of the names
[11:48:02] <Darke> Wumpus: Directories are not files, IIRC and visaversa. I'll just go double check. <grin>
[11:48:07] <Wumpus> oh i see
[11:48:22] <Wumpus> like that, hehe, well thats nto so weird
[11:48:29] <Wumpus> but having two FAQ files won't work, i assume ;-p
[11:48:37] * Wumpus rereads what wjp said
[11:48:45] <Wumpus> oh, one of them is a directory... well, good luck i guess :)
[11:49:06] <wjp> what would "copy someotherfile docs/FAQ" do?
[11:49:23] <wjp> overwrite the file, or copy into the dir.?
[11:50:31] <Darke> Hmm... just checked. It doesn't work. I just remember having to deal with something related to this to get around copy protection on a rather old dos game.
[11:51:00] <Wumpus> so what'll happend when someone CVS updates? :P
[11:51:07] <wjp> a corrupt filesystem is always a nice way to copy protect something :-)
[11:51:08] * Darke now suspects this was done deliberately 'as' copy protection.
[11:51:22] <Wumpus> hehe yeah :|
[11:51:40] <Darke> Or at least I can't reproduce it by 'mkdir t' 'edit t'. It gives me an error in a dosbox under windows.
[11:53:09] <wjp> funny... in a fat32 partition I mounted in linux this gives some really strange results
[11:54:05] <wjp> although.. no, it just automatically converts filenames to lowercase
[11:54:11] <Darke> <grin> Define 'funny'.
[11:54:13] <Wumpus> hmm? i just tried it and got errors ('t is a directory')
[11:57:06] <wjp> I'm going to get something to eat; bbl
[11:58:47] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[11:58:53] <Fingolfin> no chan/nickserv?
[11:58:58] <matto> finny!
[11:59:06] <Fingolfin> maty!
[11:59:22] * Darke bows. "Hello, and yes, it looks like it."
[11:59:52] <Fingolfin> Curse ye olde OPN admins!
[12:03:21] <Wumpus> bah
[12:03:26] <Wumpus> at least we have DNS here :P
[12:03:35] <Wumpus> starlink has been without DNS for several days now, grr :-(
[12:10:56] <wjp> hi
[12:11:15] <wjp> no DNS?
[12:11:22] <wjp> how... umm... convenient
[12:12:11] <Wumpus> its surprising how many people are still there, ie, people who know IPs ;-p
[12:13:03] <wjp> echo "smth.starlink.smth ww.xx.yy.zz" >> /etc/hosts ? :-)
[12:13:20] <Wumpus> essentially :)
[12:13:29] <Wumpus> its happened before, so i have a commented out one in my /etc/hosts :)
[12:14:06] <Wumpus> (which promptly netsplitted yesterday and didn't rejoin for at least half a day, hehe ;-p)
[12:17:03] <Kirben> Why still keep old faq and readme files anyway ?
[12:17:26] <Kirben> html is much easier to read
[12:18:24] <wjp> because reading text is easier in terminals :-)
[12:18:33] <Wumpus> links :)
[12:19:09] <wjp> 'less' still reads easier :-)
[12:20:51] <Wumpus> oops, that wasn't right
[12:21:51] * Darke agrees, he still goes straight to the text documentation.
[12:22:52] * Wumpus too :) still, html is probably more attractive 'for the masses' (whatever that means ;-p)
[12:23:56] <Darke> Wumpus: Probably 90% of the people who use exult at the moment. <grin> This supposes they've gotten... 'lazy' from their old dos ways.
[12:40:59] <_Kreed_> me me me
[12:41:06] <_Kreed_> i'm pretty lazy
[12:41:06] <_Kreed_> :D
[12:41:37] <_Kreed_> but i still do stuff from the command line
[12:46:40] <-- Kirben has left IRC ("System Meltdown")
[12:47:29] --> Colourless has joined #Exult
[12:47:39] <Colourless> hi
[12:47:40] <wjp> hi Ryan
[12:47:43] <matto> hey Cless
[12:47:54] <Colourless> he speaks :-)
[12:47:59] <matto> wjp: I found a terry goodkind bbs and chatroom hehe
[12:48:08] <wjp> matto: :-)
[12:48:14] <Fingolfin> hiya
[12:48:18] <matto> I just posted a message chastising people who were whining about book 7 hehe
[12:48:40] * wjp is just compiling the first try of 'version info in savegames' code
[12:48:59] <Fingolfin> when did we want to make that beta release? *cough*
[12:49:13] <matto> Fingolfin: hehehe
[12:49:13] <Colourless> last wednesday :-)
[12:49:13] <wjp> right after this was in, IIRC :-)
[12:50:18] <Colourless> you know what, we are just like real game developers for a cupple of reasons
[12:50:41] <Colourless> Reason 1: We have seemingly missed our promised Beta release date by quite a bit
[12:51:11] <Colourless> Reason 2: we have unreproducable bugs that we are unable to fix :-)
[12:51:17] <wjp> nah, we're just amateurs in that... 4 days is nothing :-)
[12:51:39] <Wumpus> bah, betas don't count anyway ;-p
[12:51:48] <Colourless> Reason 3: We are not trying to avoid breaking save games... we are aiming to do it :-)
[12:51:58] <matto> haha
[12:52:13] <matto> out of curiosity.. why are you guys going beta if you have unreproducable, unfixible bugs?
[12:52:27] <matto> is it just to keep moving forward?
[12:52:48] <wjp> to get more people hit by the bug, so we have a better chance of reproducing it ;-)
[12:52:56] <matto> ah ha!
[12:53:02] <Wumpus> because real developers don't let it stop them either? ;-p
[12:53:08] <matto> well as long you don't deply that SDL parachute, you should be fine ;)
[12:53:14] <matto> Wumpus: hahaha good point!
[12:53:18] <Colourless> Reason 4: We are 'acquiring' information about the systems the users are running on
[12:53:58] <Fingolfin> yeah, but
[12:54:01] <Fingolfin> we are still amateurs
[12:54:02] <Colourless> Reason 5: Only for so called debugging purposes only
[12:54:16] <Fingolfin> we are neither encrytping that info, nor are we transmiting it to a central survey station =)
[12:54:39] <matto> and most importantly of all, you are not selling that info :)
[12:54:51] <Fingolfin> matto: you risk extreme damage to your neural network by action like that on #fink =)
[12:54:57] <Fingolfin> matto: uhm...
[12:54:58] <matto> Fingolfin: hahahaha
[12:55:01] <wjp> matto: umm.. no no.. of course not... what gave you that idea? <nervous laugh>
[12:55:09] <Colourless> as I said, it's to be used for so called debugging purposes only :-)
[12:55:12] <Fingolfin> matto: well... we are not? but I thought that was our concept to make money out of OSS ?
[12:55:22] * matto feels the words 'truth' pressing painfully into his palm as he looks at fingolfin and wjp
[12:55:25] <Fingolfin> Colourless: exactly!
[12:55:34] <Fingolfin> just like Blizzard is doing in Diablo II 1.09c
[12:55:54] <wjp> that isn't for debugging, but for targetting WC3, isn't it?
[12:56:04] <Darke> wjp: Yep.
[12:56:10] <Colourless> yeah sure it
[12:56:16] <Colourless> s/it/si/
[12:56:19] <matto> Fingolfin: on #fink I was just hoping to give you a laugh as I asked a hopelessly vague question and then demanded a precise answer on how to fix it... :)
[12:56:20] <Colourless> s/si/is/
[12:56:25] <wjp> Colourless: :-)
[12:56:31] <Wumpus> would there be anyway of converting saved games from "original' u7 to exult? IE, is there something fundamentally different between what exult does and what ultima7 did?
[12:56:48] <Wumpus> (... for sgs)
[12:56:53] <Colourless> wumpus in theory it should be possible
[12:57:00] <Fingolfin> matto: I would lough, if it was not that common =)
[12:57:10] <matto> Fingolfin: hahaha *laughing out loud*
[12:57:31] <wjp> we'd probably lose some info while importing, but nothing critical, I guess
[12:57:48] <Wumpus> hmm
[12:57:59] <Colourless> as long as the usecode script is properly ported there shouldn't be problems
[12:58:05] <Fingolfin> are there that many people still carrying save games from the original?
[12:58:11] <Darke> Wumpus: The question is more of a 'why go to all that effort' though.
[12:58:17] * Wumpus is just thinking in terms of being able to pick up a point of interest in exult and looking at what happens in the Real Thing, and vice versa... but i guess not really practical :|
[12:58:36] <wjp> exporting will be harder
[12:59:01] <matto> as I've been reading the Sword of Truth fan message board, I've noticed something startlingly familiar. Some people are whining about the way his books have changed and are acting like he owes them the type of story that they want him to make. This is frightfully familiar to the typical free software project where people who use a program (exult for example) suddenly feel like they are owed certain things
[12:59:09] <Wumpus> okie nm :) have to get the hang of the more sophisticated cheats then :P
[12:59:22] <matto> for example.. owed technical support.. owed bug fixes... owed having spark's rear end not flash
[12:59:33] <Wumpus> nonono
[12:59:35] <Darke> matto: Seen the same thing happen to online cartoons as well.
[12:59:37] <Wumpus> they are owed *having* it flash! :P
[12:59:49] <matto> Darke: it must be a typical phenomenon (sp??) of life
[12:59:49] <Colourless> well that spark flashing thing was actually a bug
[13:00:57] <matto> beware about letting the public partake of your hard work ...
[13:01:01] <Colourless> so, considering Reasons 4 and 5, do you think EA would endorse us if we game them that information :-)
[13:01:11] <Colourless> s/game/gave/
[13:01:11] <matto> they might decide that you owe them
[13:01:12] <Darke> Colourless: Something that was said a couple of times in the thread as well.
[13:02:35] <wjp> ok... version info code seems to work
[13:02:39] <Fingolfin> wjp: hahah
[13:02:49] <Fingolfin> wjp: I always say that before commiting to CVS, too
[13:03:06] <Colourless> i say that after :-)
[13:03:22] <Colourless> committed: hopefully it wont kill anything :-)
[13:03:24] <wjp> oh, btw, Colourless, could you check my commit to Newfile_gump.cc from last night?
[13:03:26] <Fingolfin> Colourless: which proves you are a liar, just like us =)
[13:03:46] * Darke doesn't say it at all, and he still seems to break things. <grin>
[13:04:17] <Colourless> wjp: yeah, I can check it. what exactly did you do?
[13:04:30] <wjp> 'filename = 0;' in FreeSaveGameDetails()
[13:04:40] <Wumpus> are there instructions on how to fly the GIMP plugin anywhere? don't see it ...
[13:04:41] <Colourless> ok
[13:04:59] <wjp> 'fly'?
[13:05:04] <Wumpus> well
[13:05:19] <Wumpus> do anything with it ;-p it gets a brief mention that it exists in one of the filse, and thats about it as far as i can tell
[13:05:30] <_Kreed_> hm
[13:05:32] <Wumpus> install, use, what it does, etc :)
[13:05:40] <Colourless> wjp: was it crashing?
[13:05:46] <_Kreed_> does that gimp plug work for the old gimp windows too?
[13:05:54] <wjp> Colourless: yes, but not consistently, and not for me either
[13:06:08] <wjp> _Kreed_: don't know; never tried
[13:06:28] <wjp> I guess in some cases filename could point to a string in one of the detail structures, that had been deleted
[13:06:45] <Wumpus> ohhh
[13:06:51] <wjp> last night's logs contains a backtrace, btw
[13:06:52] <matto> good "night" guys
[13:06:56] <wjp> bye :-)
[13:07:03] <Wumpus> `night matto
[13:07:04] <Colourless> as far as I know it shouldn't... but I could be wrong
[13:07:06] <Darke> matto: Night!
[13:07:09] <matto> good luck on the beta release.. I look forward to it
[13:07:14] <Wumpus> phwoah
[13:07:29] <Wumpus> it --enable-gimp-plugin requires a fairly recent gimp, it seems
[13:07:42] <wjp> really?
[13:07:50] <Wumpus> or maybe woody is just behind...
[13:07:53] <Colourless> actually, looks like in some circumstance it might
[13:07:59] <wjp> 1.1.26 is ancient :-)
[13:08:29] <Wumpus> okay, then woody is behind... odd, its usually fairly up to date
[13:08:30] <wjp> (well, 1.2 has been out for quite a while, anyway)
[13:09:03] <Colourless> grrr
[13:09:03] <Colourless> cvs update: move away docs/FAQ; it is in the way
[13:09:03] <Colourless> C docs/FAQ
[13:09:03] <Colourless> P docs/Makefile.am
[13:09:03] <Colourless> cvs update: move away docs/README; it is in the way
[13:09:04] <Colourless> C docs/README
[13:09:22] <wjp> ok... that is what I was afraid of :/
[13:09:24] <Fingolfin> he =)
[13:09:29] * Darke grins, it appears there is a collision then...
[13:10:46] * Fingolfin stops grinning...
[13:10:49] * Wumpus hmms
[13:10:49] <Fingolfin> C configure.in
[13:10:55] <Fingolfin> wtf?!
[13:11:00] <wjp> ?
[13:11:32] <Fingolfin> zlib stuff... your change and mine conflicted obviously =)
[13:11:41] <wjp> ah, obviously :-)
[13:11:42] <Darke> Wow. Water turns into blood, if dumped from a bucket, even if it isn't out of a well.
[13:11:48] <Wumpus> ?
[13:12:04] <Fingolfin> you are sure it is blood not wine? :)
[13:12:05] <Wumpus> how do you know its blood? maybe its red wine :)
[13:12:10] <Fingolfin> exactly :)
[13:12:11] * Wumpus grrs at fingolfin
[13:12:14] <wjp> Darke: yes, that's confused me for a while... that shape is named 'blood', and there's no replacement names in text.flx
[13:12:15] <Wumpus> :)
[13:12:34] <Darke> Firstly it's _blue_ and secondly you click on it and it says 'blood'. But it's weird anyway. <grin>
[13:12:55] <Wumpus> *blink* usually it doesn't say anything at all when you click on the puddles, does it?
[13:13:01] <Colourless> yeah, it's just because text.flx doesn't have any other names
[13:13:14] <wjp> maybe we should hardcode them in
[13:13:14] <Colourless> i'm pretty sure the originally called it all blood too
[13:13:38] <Darke> Wumpus: Double click on a bucket, then click on the ground. You'll have a splotch of blue liquid that if you click on is called 'blood'.
[13:14:05] <Darke> wjp: Perhaps add it as a post version 1.0 'feature'. <grin>
[13:15:08] * wjp swaps the "platform" and "compiler" output in version.cc to separate compile time info from runtime info
[13:15:11] <Darke> That is hack the files to do what we want them to do. IIRC it should be 'easy' to fix with some usecode modifications and an extra entry into text.flx.
[13:15:16] <Wumpus> darke- *nodnod*
[13:15:25] * Wumpus really ought to get DOS working some time
[13:15:34] <wjp> Darke: doesn't take any usecode mods
[13:15:46] <wjp> in fact, we haven't found any way to map the text.flx entries to shapes
[13:16:08] <wjp> (which is why several are still wrong in SI)
[13:16:09] * Darke nods to wjp.
[13:16:32] <Colourless> it's as if the original has a hard coded table for that info
[13:16:43] * wjp nods
[13:17:05] <Wumpus> sorcery!
[13:17:11] <Darke> It wouldn't surprise me. <grin>
[13:17:12] <Fingolfin> hey, we are now in the "game foundry" @ SF
[13:17:24] <Colourless> i think that text.flx was used instead of hardcoding the actual names for reaionalization
[13:17:24] <Wumpus> you weren't before?
[13:17:38] * Fingolfin recently noticed one of his other projects, JabberFoX, is now a "featured" project of the MacOS X foundry... a foundry which he is not sure exists :)
[13:17:57] <wjp> anyone mind if I commit the.. umm... 'strictly for debugging purposes' savegame info?
[13:18:13] <Wumpus> :)
[13:18:14] <Colourless> no problems here
[13:18:16] * Darke has no problems.
[13:18:28] <Fingolfin> well
[13:18:32] <Wumpus> just so you can go "I want this guys machine!" :P
[13:18:35] <wjp> Fingolfin: could you add some (basic) MacOS detection code to version.cc?
[13:18:40] <Fingolfin> one thing I would mind is that we planned a release... so, will this be backward compatible?
[13:18:50] <Fingolfin> wjp: I already did, but haven't commited it yet
[13:18:53] <wjp> yes, it won't break any old/new savegames
[13:19:05] <Fingolfin> it sure will break by your local changes, btw :) since you reordered stuff in version.cc
[13:19:07] <wjp> Fingolfin: prepare for some conflicts then :/
[13:19:12] <Fingolfin> indeed =)
[13:20:26] * Wumpus explores
[13:20:58] <Wumpus> bah, gimp for debian must have been orphaned... even sid only has 1.0.4 ... *Sulks* this is really not something i feel like compiling myself... it'll take an even bigger forever :-(
[13:21:27] <Fingolfin> well, anyway - will we really release till tonight? I am all ready for that, but I got a request for a binary snapshot on OS X, and I am not sure if I should send it or wait for our release :)
[13:21:28] * Wumpus considers not being so curious about gimp-plugin :)
[13:21:32] <_Kreed_> there is no bigger forever :D
[13:21:38] <_Kreed_> infinite is infinite
[13:22:18] <Wumpus> kreed- the time it takes to compile exult from scratch on my computer is forever; the time it takes to compile ghc from scratch is a massive forever.... i anticipate gimp being somewhere in between ;-p
[13:22:50] <wjp> ok, here goes... *crosses fingers*
[13:22:55] <wjp> _Kreed_: no it isn't :-)
[13:23:11] <Wumpus> anyway, there *are* differnet sizes of infinity ;-p
[13:23:29] <wjp> the infinite of the "number of integers" is a lot smaller than the infinite of the "number of reals"
[13:23:54] <Wumpus> indeed :)
[13:24:25] <wjp> ...which is smaller than the "number of subsets of the reals", etc...
[13:26:52] * Darke backs slowly away from the discussion of infinate numbers. These things can turn _nasty_. <grin>
[13:27:04] <wjp> :-)
[13:27:33] <Fingolfin> anybody ever tried to compile atlas? that takes about half day on my computer, compared to 30 mins for exult
[13:27:49] <wjp> half a day?! ouch
[13:27:54] <Fingolfin> wjp: you want to imply the reals are uncountable? :)
[13:28:00] <Wumpus> what's atlas?
[13:28:02] <Fingolfin> wjp: that is because it compiles actually several times
[13:28:13] <Fingolfin> to find out the optimal compilations settings for maximum speed
[13:28:15] <wjp> well, the reals are uncountable...
[13:28:27] <wjp> so anything I say implies they are
[13:28:30] <Colourless> if one were to count reals, wouldn't use use integers to count them?
[13:28:41] <Fingolfin> Wumpus: a collection of highly optimized numerical math algorithms
[13:28:46] <Fingolfin> Colourless: exactly
[13:28:50] <Wumpus> fingolfin: ah
[13:29:11] <Fingolfin> Colourless: but since it is possibly to prove that won't work, there are more reals than integers =)
[13:29:26] <wjp> diagonalization... (sp?)
[13:29:55] * Fingolfin nods at wjp
[13:30:00] <Colourless> aye
[13:30:28] <Colourless> then again, there is an infinite number of reals between any 2 integers
[13:30:43] <Wumpus> but thats the same infinity as the number of reals
[13:30:48] <Fingolfin> Colourless: but the rational numbers *are* countable
[13:30:51] <wjp> yes, but that goes for the rationals too
[13:30:59] <Fingolfin> and there are infinitly many rationals between any two given numbers, too :)
[13:31:13] <Fingolfin> i.e. the rationals are dense, but "not as dense" as the reals *cough*
[13:31:19] <Colourless> and surds
[13:31:30] <wjp> Fingolfin: not complete, to be exact
[13:31:53] <Fingolfin> wjp: ah, I am doing "Maßtheorie" ATM (measure theory?!? :) and our last homework involved researching the cantor set, and proving some really weird (and nice! :) things on a special function on that set etc. :)
[13:31:55] <wjp> (ie. the rationals are dense in the reals, but the set of rationals isn't complete, while the reals are)
[13:32:08] <Fingolfin> wjp: that's why I used quoatiation marks =)
[13:32:17] <wjp> :-)
[13:32:32] * Fingolfin looks arond
[13:32:34] * wjp hasn't done any measure theory (good question, is that the proper term?) yet
[13:32:39] <Fingolfin> around even
[13:32:44] * wjp wonders why everyone is suddenly silent
[13:32:59] <Colourless> there is nothing left to discuss on the topic :-)
[13:33:05] <wjp> sure there is :-)
[13:33:09] <Fingolfin> wjp: well we are doing it as part of "multiple integration", for lesbegue integration etc. ... sigma-algebras etc.
[13:33:12] * Darke is hiding in a corner behind a large "NaN" sign.
[13:33:18] <Fingolfin> LOL
[13:33:20] <wjp> Darke: LOL
[13:33:23] <Wumpus> :)
[13:33:33] <Fingolfin> Darke: did we cause an overflow? :)
[13:33:35] <Colourless> NaN really is a number though isn't it :-)
[13:33:54] <Fingolfin> Colourless: sshhht, you will cause casualties if you go on!
[13:34:04] * wjp hasn't done any Lebesgue integrals either *sigh*
[13:34:09] <Darke> "I am not a number. I am a freebuck!"? Or something. <grin>
[13:34:35] * wjp should really go catch up on some analysis
[13:34:50] <Fingolfin> wjp: that is OK, then :) no worries, they are mostly interesting to integrate "weird" functions, and also integrate in multiple dimensions
[13:35:07] * wjp nods
[13:35:34] <Fingolfin> wjp: our teacher is quite bad, though, at least his diadactics. The lecture hall is croweded, with 150 ppl, yet he writes in tiny letters, and speaks in manner that is hard to understand
[13:35:46] <wjp> that's always nice :/
[13:35:47] <Fingolfin> and he uses abbreviations like hell!
[13:35:50] <Colourless> sounds like a normal teacher :-)
[13:36:00] <wjp> brb
[13:36:12] <Fingolfin> so you can't understand what he says, but try to read the (tiny) stuff on the faaaar away blackboard, but the abbrevs. make you not understnad much
[13:36:34] <Fingolfin> add in even tinier indices like i,j,k,n,m (his n loooks like 1 and i btw :)
[13:36:41] <Fingolfin> Colourless: nah not really
[13:36:52] <Fingolfin> Colourless: maybe we are too used to better ones, though =)
[13:37:12] <Fingolfin> well, he was for two weeks in california recently. which showed us that is assisten is a superb teacher!
[13:37:26] <Fingolfin> we now hope the prof will be in california (or wherever except here :) a lot...
[13:37:40] <Colourless> :_)
[13:37:43] <Colourless> :-)
[13:38:35] <Fingolfin> argh
[13:38:39] <Fingolfin> cvs [update aborted]: could not chdir to docs/faq: Not a directory
[13:39:05] <Wumpus> hehe yes
[13:39:05] <Colourless> hehe, at least it could still continue for me :-)
[13:39:17] <Fingolfin> =)
[13:40:42] <Wumpus> so the question becomes, when does that get fixed? ;-p
[13:41:26] <Colourless> i must congratulate Jeff for this one :-)
[13:42:20] <wjp> Fingolfin: I think Jeff just beat you on breaking CVS ;-)
[13:42:36] <Wumpus> why does the FAQ directory still exist anyway?
[13:42:45] <wjp> you can't remove dirs in CVS
[13:42:55] <Colourless> it wasn't just breaking exult compiling, it was actually breaking exult :-)
[13:43:01] <Colourless> cvs i mean
[13:43:13] <Colourless> i really screwed that one up :-)
[13:43:31] <Wumpus> wjp- you can if you're willing to go into the repository
[13:43:35] <Wumpus> wjp- its not hard
[13:43:40] <Wumpus> (you lose the attic though :()
[13:44:21] <Fingolfin> hmpf
[13:44:38] <Fingolfin> my problem might be that my FS is not case sensitive...
[13:44:47] <Wumpus> fing- yeah
[13:44:50] <Colourless> mine too
[13:44:51] <Fingolfin> so... I have a problem now...
[13:45:00] <Wumpus> but the thing is, we don't really want to say "well your FS isn't case sensitive, toughies"
[13:45:04] <Wumpus> :P
[13:45:06] <Fingolfin> a serious one, since I can't even continue... guess I can force cvs to not recurse for now, though
[13:45:14] <Wumpus> so it Should Be Fixed :)
[13:48:19] <wjp> so.. being the only linux user with write access here...
[13:49:16] <Wumpus> you'll proceed to sit back and bask in the power for a while? :)
[13:49:24] <wjp> Wumpus: exactly ;-)
[13:49:41] * Fingolfin looks for his kick button
[13:49:47] <wjp> seriously though, should I just remove the FAQ and README files?
[13:50:00] * Fingolfin finds another button instead
[13:50:13] * Fingolfin thwaps wjp with a big trout for that!
[13:50:19] <Fingolfin> well
[13:50:20] <wjp> sorry :-)
[13:50:30] <Fingolfin> wjp: I see no way around that , so yeah...
[13:50:36] <Colourless> well, didn't you say they needed to be in the main project dir
[13:50:50] <wjp> README, yes
[13:50:52] <Fingolfin> yeah, where they used to be... why did we move them, anyway?
[13:50:59] <wjp> not a clue
[13:51:04] <Colourless> ask dom :-)
[13:51:09] <Wumpus> hehe :)
[13:51:14] <Colourless> he removed them, and Jeff put them back I think
[13:51:29] <Wumpus> is cvs itself still being actively developed, does anyone know?
[13:51:44] <Fingolfin> only maintained, I think
[13:51:58] <Fingolfin> it just has too many fundamental flaws
[13:52:03] <wjp> yeah
[13:52:11] <wjp> it could use a design overhaul
[13:52:14] <Fingolfin> on the long run, I hope somethin will appear that replaces it.. like that project @ tigris
[13:52:17] <Wumpus> hmm?
[13:52:27] <Fingolfin> http://subversion.tigris.org/
[13:52:30] <Colourless> fundamental flaws.... that's pretty bad really
[13:52:47] <Wumpus> `fundamental flaws' ?
[13:52:57] <Wumpus> (depends what you want to achieve i suppose :P)
[13:53:02] <Fingolfin> like the abillity of not being abnle to deal with dirs properly
[13:53:05] <wjp> renaming of files
[13:53:11] <wjp> non-atomic commits
[13:53:13] * Fingolfin nods at wjp
[13:53:21] <Fingolfin> read the subversion page for a detailed list =)
[13:53:25] <Wumpus> well renaming files would be reasonably easy to do
[13:53:37] <Fingolfin> Wumpus: I have had *many* issues with CVS caused by its fundamental flaws, trust me :)
[13:53:38] <Wumpus> or at least...
[13:53:40] <wjp> yes, but the history doesn't move along
[13:53:41] <Wumpus> hmm
[13:53:42] <Fingolfin> Wumpus: not really
[13:53:49] <Wumpus> maybe its not if you start using some of the more fancy features that i haven't explored yet
[13:54:09] <Fingolfin> Wumpus: well, in another project I recently had to move two dozen dirs with folders in there...
[13:54:20] <Colourless> ouch
[13:54:26] <Fingolfin> I now have two dozen "stale" dirs (empty) which CVS *has* to keep, plust lost all revisioning info
[13:54:44] <Wumpus> but whats preventing you from removing them?
[13:54:48] <Fingolfin> I am not even talking about all the work I had to perform the move, that is another story :)
[13:54:52] <Fingolfin> Wumpus: CVS can't remove dirs
[13:54:59] <Wumpus> i mean, in the repository?
[13:55:14] <Fingolfin> Wumpus: because then I can't go back to older revisions of the project!
[13:55:15] <Wumpus> yes, but you can just remove them from the repository, as logn as you don't mind losing the history for the files that *were* there
[13:55:23] <Wumpus> ah, okay
[13:55:28] <Wumpus> that makes sense :)
[13:55:34] <Fingolfin> Wumpus: that breaks the whole purpose of a revisioning system!
[13:55:44] <Wumpus> yeah :|
[13:55:47] <Wumpus> i suppose
[13:56:10] <Fingolfin> Wumpus: also, your advice is on the same level as telling a customer with problems on his car to just replace these and that parts
[13:56:15] <Colourless> i'm guessing cvs's flaws were because it wasn't designed with such things in mind
[13:56:22] <Wumpus> oh i know
[13:56:26] <Fingolfin> i.e. you just proved my point by suggesting me a dirty work aroudn for a fundamental flaw :)
[13:56:29] <Fingolfin> Colourless: exactly
[13:56:47] <Wumpus> well *shrug* :P
[13:56:54] <Fingolfin> Colourless: it was never meant for such wide spread use, more like a "poor mans versioning system". it uses RCS internally, BTW :)
[13:57:12] <Colourless> to be able to remove dir and maintain version history would require substantial changes to the way things work
[13:57:20] <wjp> what's the proper way to undo the delete of FAQ and README?
[13:57:31] <Wumpus> *nod* wasn't thinking along those lines
[13:58:10] <Fingolfin> anyway, taht is why I hope subversion quickly evolves and gets ready... it sure looks very promising
[13:58:30] <Wumpus> there are any number of contenders ;-p
[13:58:34] <Wumpus> (for replacements i mean)
[13:58:59] <wjp> server administration for cvs isn't as easy as it should be, either
[13:59:43] <Wumpus> ya! :(
[14:00:08] <wjp> anyway... about that undoing the remove...? :-)
[14:00:21] * Colourless thinks no one knows
[14:00:28] <Fingolfin> Wumpus: well, there are many many working versioning systems. The problem is there are few which are free & run on a broad range of systems (not just POSIX ones)
[14:00:33] * wjp is afraid of that too
[14:00:38] <Fingolfin> wjp: I think you just have to re-add it
[14:01:49] <Wumpus> its in cvs book
[14:01:53] <Wumpus> 1.11
[14:02:08] <Wumpus> but roughly, yeah, re-add it
[14:02:15] <wjp> ok, done
[14:02:32] <wjp> what's the name of that section? (the info pages don't have the section numbers)
[14:03:06] <Wumpus> `What happens when you remove a file'
[14:03:35] <Fingolfin> phew, that helped, thx wjp
[14:03:48] <Fingolfin> wjp: he refers to the CVS book
[14:03:59] <wjp> yes, the info pages are a copy of that book
[14:04:05] <Colourless> ah, much better
[14:04:05] <wjp> (or an excerpt, anyway)
[14:04:08] <Fingolfin> ah ok, sorry
[14:04:08] <wjp> (sp?)
[14:06:42] <wjp> the Makefile.* should probably be changed too, right?
[14:07:04] <Colourless> i think so
[14:07:28] <wjp> oh, it looks like Makefile.am was never changed for the move
[14:08:22] <wjp> ...but docs/Makefile.am was
[14:08:58] <Fingolfin> hehe
[14:13:20] <wjp> Fingolfin: subversion sounds really nice
[14:16:05] <Fingolfin> wjp: yeah it does! a lot of really cool things
[14:16:17] <Fingolfin> and they seem to progressing well, too, from the Status page at least :)
[14:16:24] <Fingolfin> there is #svn, btw, as I just discovered :)
[14:16:34] <wjp> yes, I noticed
[14:16:48] * wjp was just at the bottom of the FAQ where it's mentioned
[14:17:11] <Fingolfin> =)
[14:17:26] <Fingolfin> it is actually mentioned on the front page in red text on yellow back :)
[14:17:27] <Colourless> i take it they use their own software while developing it
[14:17:42] <wjp> so it is
[14:17:45] <Fingolfin> indeed
[14:17:47] <wjp> Colourless: yeah
[14:17:50] <Fingolfin> they are selfhosting
[14:17:57] <wjp> "NOTE: Subversion is now self-hosting"
[14:18:13] * Fingolfin goes test svn now
[14:18:17] <wjp> hehe... http://subversion.tigris.org/inconveniences.html
[14:18:33] <Fingolfin> yeah =)
[14:18:37] <wjp> "you should probably read over all the open issues. But since you're probably not going to do that, ..."
[14:18:48] * Darke watches half of #exult wander onto the #svn channel... <grin>
[14:19:14] <wjp> Fingolfin: any conversation in there? :-)
[14:19:21] <Fingolfin> not ATM
[14:19:35] <Fingolfin> and I don't want to start one before I haven't at least tried to build it myself :)
[14:19:59] <Colourless> well, if it doesn't work, you'll have something to talk about :-)
[14:20:13] * wjp wonders what authentication protocol it uses
[14:20:33] <Darke> "Hi! We were just conversing on #exult about how cvs was annoying us and tripped over your webpage... blah, blah, blah" I can see that. <grin>
[14:20:36] <Fingolfin> they use WebDAV
[14:20:41] <Fingolfin> for file exchange I mean
[14:20:54] <Fingolfin> the server is really apache with a mod_dav_svn and mod_dav
[14:21:03] <wjp> yes, I read that in the FAQ
[14:21:11] * wjp doesn't know the first thing about mod_dav, though
[14:21:23] * wjp visits apache.org
[14:21:42] <Fingolfin> OS X comes with DAV support, and mod_dav etc., btw... I think XP also has DAV support? Colourless?
[14:22:06] <Colourless> i've no idea. i don't run a webserver :-)
[14:22:19] * Colourless is on a modem remember :-)
[14:22:43] <wjp> "HTTP Extensions for Distributed Authoring -- WEBDAV" (rfc 2518)
[14:25:59] <wjp> Network Layer: "for details, see 'Protocol'"... Protocol: "for more info, see 'Network Layer'"
[14:26:09] <wjp> neither have any details :-)
[14:26:37] <Darke> "infinate recursion: see recursion" "recursion: see infinate recursion"
[14:26:48] <wjp> :-)
[14:26:54] <Wumpus> hehe
[14:27:20] <Darke> IIRC I stole that from JARGON. <grin> (Credit where credit is due and all that...)
[14:27:27] <Wumpus> i thought recursion was: recursion: if you understand, you can stop; otherwise, see recursion... whereas infinite recursion was *just* see infiite recursion ;-p
[14:27:56] <Fingolfin> =)
[14:28:40] * Darke was just about to double check JARGON on it, but decides he has better things to do, then spend the next 5 or 6 hours reading through the whole file again, like last time he wanted to 'just check something...'. <grin>
[14:28:59] <wjp> heh, that sounds familiar :-)
[14:29:57] * Fingolfin takes the printed copy to his right and looks it up anyway...
[14:30:30] <Fingolfin> recursion n. See recursion. See also tail recursion
[14:31:13] <Fingolfin> tail recursion n. If you aren't sick of it already, see tail recursion
[14:31:21] <Wumpus> oh :)
[14:32:05] <Fingolfin> already found a problem in the SVN configure script (well, actually, in the APR part, which if I understand right, is derived from apache :)
[14:32:13] <Wumpus> d'ooooh run out of space
[14:32:18] <Wumpus> i think its time to sleep
[14:32:29] <Wumpus> (not that this will create any more space... urr, well, i hope not anyway ;-p)
[14:32:43] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("zzzzzzz")
[14:50:25] * Darke ponders the concept of sleep 'creating' space, and concludes he'd need some sort of compression routine, unless he wishes to dump memories to offline backups.
[14:56:07] * Darke considers he probably should go to sleep also. "'Night' all!"
[14:56:18] <Colourless> cya
[15:25:23] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("bbl")
[15:55:56] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[16:00:16] <wjp> wb
[16:00:25] <Fingolfin> thx
[16:01:16] <wjp> wow, you even put in some comments in version.cc
[16:01:20] <wjp> thanks :-)
[16:01:51] <Colourless> hmm, someone messed up in there.... defined(__DATE) ??????
[16:02:04] <wjp> oops
[16:02:14] <wjp> that would probably be me
[16:02:43] * wjp fixes that
[16:13:26] <wjp> hmm, emacs' C mode doesn't recognize compiler directives if there's whitespace before it :/
[16:47:28] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[16:47:44] <Dominus> hi
[16:47:46] <Fingolfin> hi Dominus
[16:47:51] <Dominus> sorry for breaking readme and FAQ :-)
[16:47:52] * Fingolfin is watching FarScape
[16:47:53] <Colourless> hoi
[16:48:08] <Dominus> Fingolfin: Farscape sucks in German
[16:48:23] <Colourless> heh
[16:48:47] <Dominus> I've watched all episodes up to the last in English and it's great but in German there is something missing
[16:48:52] <Colourless> it such that even though Farscape is made in australia, we are about 6 months behind the US in showing the actual episodes!
[16:49:01] <Fingolfin> lol
[16:49:17] <Fingolfin> Dominus: I don't have much choice, and I still don't like it - unlike you I am not spoiled by the english versions =)
[16:49:19] <Dominus> hehe, the last ep was season 3 ep 18 :-)
[16:49:30] <Colourless> hell, even one of our tv networks finances the show
[16:49:50] <Dominus> Fingolfin: "still don#t like it" - why do you watch it then ?
[16:50:04] <Dominus> BTW, Exult is broken for me
[16:50:17] <Colourless> your fault :-)
[16:50:23] <Dominus> doesn't go beyond jorney onward
[16:50:56] <Colourless> well, no one has exactly done anything to that part of exult for probably over a week
[16:51:01] <Colourless> if not more
[16:51:36] <Dominus> I mean, even if I start with a new game it crashes after the plasma
[16:51:36] * Colourless checks logs... ok maybe wjp did do something :-)
[16:51:46] <Dominus> Colourless: does it work for you?
[16:52:24] * Colourless needs to recompile.... ask me again in 3 minutes
[16:52:40] * Dominus looks at watch
[16:53:25] <Fingolfin> Dominus: sorry, I meant "...I till like it..." :)
[16:53:34] <Dominus> :-)
[16:53:51] <Dominus> ah, that ep is quite funny
[16:55:12] <Colourless> C:\UC\exult\version.cc(218) : error C2065: 'endl' : undeclared identifier
[16:55:41] * Colourless wonders who added that... it shouldn't be there
[16:55:44] <Fingolfin> ouch
[16:55:51] <Fingolfin> not me this time :)
[16:56:01] <Fingolfin> just do it like in the other places
[16:56:15] <Fingolfin> i.e. remove the << endl or << std::endl thingies inside the #ifdef's
[16:56:16] <Colourless> by chance it is in the WIN32 define, but I didn't add that line
[16:56:22] <Fingolfin> and move a single out << std::endl; to the end
[16:56:37] <Colourless> that line isn't even meant to be there though. :-)
[16:56:53] <Fingolfin> hm yeah
[16:57:00] <Fingolfin> maybe it got there when I did my conflict merge?
[16:57:08] <Colourless> yeah probably :-)
[16:57:19] * Fingolfin runs a cvs blame
[16:57:48] <Fingolfin> seems so, yeah
[16:57:58] <Fingolfin> phew, at least that restores my reputation :)
[16:58:31] * Dominus is glad that he didn't imagine the crashes :-)
[16:58:45] <Colourless> for me endl and all that stuff must be std::endl or have using std::endl
[17:01:29] <Colourless> dominus: it works fine for me
[17:01:41] <Dominus> argh
[17:03:03] <Dominus> what is wrong then? I did a full compile before that
[17:03:19] <wjp> hmm, I broke something?
[17:05:42] <Dominus> hmm, now it works and I didn't change anything
[17:06:01] <Dominus> I'm puzzled before I tried about 5 times and it crashed everytime
[17:07:04] <wjp> I didn't change anything in "journey onward"
[17:07:13] <wjp> only in starting a new game and saving
[17:10:57] <wjp> did you recompile after those crashes?
[17:11:40] <Dominus> nope, that's the strange thing. I didn't change anything between then and now (I did the full compile before)
[17:12:00] <wjp> hmm, although... I did add a few U7remove calls
[17:13:06] <Dominus> wjp: don't mind, it may have been a temporal glitch in XP :-)
[17:13:24] <wjp> we can always hope it was :-)
[17:13:25] <Dominus> I tried it now a couple of times and no crash anymore
[17:15:23] <wjp> could you try deleting exult.ver and newgame.ver from gamedat?
[17:16:36] <Dominus> no problem with that
[17:28:03] * Colourless has finally done something that should have been done a long time ago, search for the sfx flexes in <DATA>>!!!!
[17:28:56] <Colourless> means that the endusers have no need to actually specify the path of the flexes anymore
[17:29:18] <Colourless> of course, they will have to put them in the right places
[17:29:27] <wjp> but it doesn't work, atm
[17:29:31] <Colourless> and still get the correct filename (this is the hard one)
[17:29:32] <wjp> d = "<DATA>/" + s;
[17:29:32] <wjp> if (U7exists(s.c_str()))
[17:29:39] <Colourless> ah, oops :-)
[17:30:10] <Colourless> Audio::Init_sfx() will still work though :-)
[17:30:18] <wjp> it's strange how specifying a path seems to be so hard
[17:30:54] <wjp> you'd say that the flexibility is a good thing; ah well
[17:32:18] <Colourless> fixed
[17:32:52] <wjp> the default config with the snapshots should now probably remove the paths, right?
[17:33:36] <Colourless> yeah it does
[17:34:13] * wjp wonders when we're going to reelase
[17:34:15] <Colourless> considering that the default config file (not the example) is actually generated by the installer, i think i'll wait till release to actually change that because i need to update the installer
[17:35:07] <Colourless> The Post Release Snapshot Installer may be a little differnt.
[17:41:23] <wjp> in what way?
[17:41:55] <Colourless> Quick Install option (wont ask for paths)
[17:42:19] <wjp> with a big warning sign on it? :-)
[17:42:48] <Colourless> no, if it can't detect the paths, it will ask for them.
[17:43:06] <wjp> how does it try to detect them?
[17:43:16] <Colourless> Registry :-)
[17:43:25] <wjp> ah, from a previous install :-)
[17:43:25] <Colourless> and from the exult.cfg file
[17:43:52] <wjp> maybe something like 'Update' would be a better name?
[17:44:52] <Colourless> can be called anything really
[17:46:51] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
[17:52:32] <Dominus> Colourless: so it will be okay to tell people to just put them into data dir and not bother with paths only the correct filenames?
[17:52:43] <Dominus> the sfx files I mean
[17:53:06] <Colourless> yeah that should be ok
[17:53:26] <Dominus> ok, need to update doc anyway with _Kreed_ new url
[17:53:53] * Dominus wants to have the Docs ready for Beta1
[18:02:27] * Dominus noticed a strange reference in the docs to soundfonts and sfx even though midi-sfx was disabled quite some time ago :-)
[18:02:39] <Colourless> :-)
[18:02:56] <Dominus> "If your soundcard doesn't support soundfonts
[18:02:58] <Dominus> this pack is a "must-have"
[18:03:26] <Colourless> heh
[18:03:36] * Dominus considers Colourless point that copy/paste is not all that usefull some times
[18:04:22] <Fingolfin> =)
[18:04:48] <Colourless> :-)
[18:07:14] <Dominus> it's even more starnge that some lines above that it's written: Note that configuring your soundfonts is not needed for digital wave sfx.
[18:44:02] <Dominus> hmm, I had a look at the problem with all liquid spilt being labeled blood. At least water had no label at all in the original (just tried it)
[18:44:29] <Dominus> Also when clicking on the Avatar it said "yourself" instead of the name of the Avatar
[18:44:50] <Colourless> yeah I know that
[18:45:31] <Fingolfin> question: anybody here has linux (or another linux) installed and can tell me the result of "ls /usr/X11R6/lib/libGLUT*" ???
[18:47:46] * Colourless wonders why people even use glut... it's not really standard OpenGL...
[18:48:47] <Fingolfin> it's not a matter of me wanting to use it or not... :)
[18:49:21] <Colourless> yeah I realize that... you wouldn't be asking about a library otherwise :-)
[18:50:47] <Colourless> glut is called OpenGL, doing it the lazy way. :-)
[18:51:26] <Colourless> granted, using glut will give you an extra bit of platform portability
[18:52:05] <Fingolfin> well... I am not wanting to use it for myself. I need to install it for some other package to compile. That's it
[18:53:09] <Colourless> aye, can't help you find it
[18:53:25] <Fingolfin> althoughg, now that I think of it, the system should ship with a GLUT.framework...
[18:53:26] * Fingolfin checks
[18:53:43] <Colourless> it probably ships with glu, which isn't glut
[18:53:49] <Fingolfin> yeah, there it is! now if they didn't hard code any X11 stuff in it, the app should even run "pseudo-native" , so to say =)
[18:53:58] <Fingolfin> I know I know :)
[18:54:22] <Colourless> so, what hardware do you have?
[18:55:15] <Fingolfin> in how far does that matter?!?
[18:55:35] <Colourless> shouldn't matter at all
[18:55:49] <Colourless> just a question out of interest
[18:56:28] <Fingolfin> well, just a lowly Rage Pro 128 AGP with 16 MB RAM -> oooollld
[19:00:56] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[19:01:06] <wjp> "linux (or another linux)"?
[19:01:42] <Colourless> heh
[19:01:56] <Colourless> me thinks he meant another unix
[19:02:01] <wjp> libglut (lowercase) is installed in /usr/lib for me, btw
[19:08:56] <Fingolfin> ok
[19:17:37] --- Fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|dinner
[19:24:17] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("time for me to go")
[19:56:33] --- Fingolfin|dinner is now known as Fingolfin
[20:06:29] <wjp> hmm, the subversion 'configure' has a strange 'feel' to it
[20:06:39] <wjp> for one it doesn't seem to cache things
[20:07:28] --- wjp is now known as wjp|away
[20:11:11] <Dominus> got to go now
[20:11:15] <Dominus> see you
[20:11:19] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("got to play Exult now")
[20:30:50] <Fingolfin> so... what about the release now?
[20:30:54] <Fingolfin> usecode, usecode, usecode
[20:31:33] --> rovragge has joined #exult
[20:31:38] <rovragge> hi
[20:32:53] <rovragge> I get this message in alagners storage a lot: "Should teleport to (xxxx, xxxx), ...but failed to find path"
[20:33:13] <rovragge> or "...but is blocked"
[20:47:55] <wjp|away> the "should teleport" messages are separate from the others
[20:48:11] <wjp|away> (they're a bit confusing; they just mean that you've teleported)
[20:48:31] <wjp|away> the others are places where the pathfinder fails
[20:48:38] <wjp|away> *gone again*
[20:49:22] <rovragge> Also, the "Teleport Oddity" about getting to a dungeon with a "throne of change" when teleporting in alagners storage described in the discussion forum occurred once
[21:01:51] --- wjp|away is now known as wjp
[21:07:14] <wjp> hmm, ok... that's not good
[21:07:31] <wjp> I guess our teleport-target egg storing could be wrong
[21:07:56] <rovragge> i first thought it was meant to be that way, so i tried the teleporters in alagners storage for quite a while
[21:15:59] <wjp> I noticed glitches with this before
[21:16:18] <wjp> I'll submit a bug report. We might have to change the way teleporters are matched to their targets someday
[21:26:05] <rovragge> a lot of graphic errors when using the telescope in moonglow
[21:27:07] * wjp checks
[21:27:11] <wjp> yes, lots of flashing
[21:27:12] <rovragge> the image of the previous position does not get erased when moving around
[21:27:41] <wjp> moving the mouse over the transparent parts really screws things up here too
[21:27:47] <rovragge> when over sea it works a bit better
[21:28:57] <rovragge> does an artefact like the telescope have its own specific code?
[21:29:23] <wjp> yes
[21:29:43] <wjp> it uses the 'telescope' or 'wizard eye' intrinsic. Not sure how we named it
[21:30:06] <wjp> hmm, wasn't the telescope view supposed to time out after a while?
[21:30:35] <rovragge> yes i think the original did
[21:36:19] <wjp> ok, I submitted this one too
[21:36:20] <wjp> thanks!
[21:42:17] <rovragge> does anyone here use an ATI graphics card in Xfree86 ?
[21:45:14] <wjp> not me
[21:49:14] <Fingolfin> I run xfree86, and I have a ATI Rage 128 Pro - why?
[21:52:23] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("good night")
[22:17:33] <wjp> I have to go
[22:17:34] <wjp> goodnight
[22:17:43] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")
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[22:40:53] <Fingolfin> hrm!!!!!
[22:41:01] <Fingolfin> exult crashes for me when loading a save game - sh*t
[22:47:42] <matto> whu-oh
[22:53:55] <Fingolfin> weird
[22:54:01] <Fingolfin> it crashes in get_text_width
[22:54:12] <Fingolfin> for some reasons, get_frame returns a bogus value... hmmm
[23:00:37] <Fingolfin> ouch!
[23:00:39] <Fingolfin> I see...
[23:00:52] <Fingolfin> for some reasons, the save game desc contains the char 0xF5 - dunno why
[23:01:06] <Fingolfin> and get_frame only checks the lower bound, not the upper bound, of the array -> crash
[23:01:36] <matto> hmmmm
[23:02:11] <Fingolfin> err, wrong,
[23:02:11] <Fingolfin> lol
[23:02:21] <Fingolfin> haha we do check - but against the wrong var :)
[23:02:30] <Fingolfin> unsigned char frames_size; // Size of 'frames' (incl. reflects).
[23:02:30] <Fingolfin> unsigned char num_frames; // # of frames (not counting reflects).
[23:02:36] <Fingolfin> ...
[23:02:36] <Fingolfin> Shape_frame *get_frame(int framenum)
[23:02:36] <Fingolfin> { return framenum < frames_size ? frames[framenum] : 0; }
[23:02:36] <Fingolfin> };
[23:02:40] <Fingolfin> go figure =)
[23:03:01] <Fingolfin> hmmmmm
[23:03:02] <Fingolfin> argh
[23:03:07] <Fingolfin> this makes no sense
[23:03:19] <Fingolfin> the array *should* contain frames_size entries, so it *should* be right this way
[23:03:23] <Fingolfin> but it's just not true
[23:03:28] <Fingolfin> the info is not corresponding to reality
[23:03:39] <Fingolfin> something is really screwed up in there, greee
[23:03:41] * Fingolfin digs deeper
[23:08:25] <matto> go Fingolfin!!!!!
[23:08:48] <Fingolfin> in this special case, both numbers are equally 127...
[23:09:13] <Fingolfin> still, the lookup for element $f5 fails.... hmmm
[23:09:17] <Fingolfin> hhhmmmmmmm
[23:09:25] <Fingolfin> wait a sec... char is signed...
[23:09:34] <Fingolfin> F5 is hence negative...
[23:09:35] <Fingolfin> ahh
[23:21:04] <matto> ooooh
[23:30:36] <-- rovragge has left IRC ("\0")
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