#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 26 Aug 2001 (GMT)

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[00:21:40] <-- fingolfin has left IRC (Client Exiting)
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[01:46:31] <fingolfin> Kirben!
[01:47:02] <fingolfin> Kirben: I just wanted to ask if that win file is alright...
[01:47:33] <fingolfin> I was wondering since it is exactly 132072 byte = 128KB for me... which is a bit small
[01:49:40] <fingolfin> Kirben: oh ok, now it seems to transfer fine, 1051514 bytes
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[03:57:06] <DraX> i found a new freebsd build host
[03:57:13] <DraX> only problem is i don't have access to it :)
[04:00:41] <DraX> i should prolly wait till i get to my laptop to do openbsd builds, as it'll likely freeze this box up if i try
[04:10:10] <Kefka> er, i don't know what you are talking about, otherwise i could tell you something helpful
[04:10:20] <Kefka> sorry :)
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[04:41:14] <Kefka`> hmm
[04:43:30] <Kefka`> .
[04:43:44] <DraX> hi
[04:43:53] <Kefka> hey.. just testing out X-Chat
[04:44:01] <Kefka> first time using Linux
[04:44:07] * DraX can't stand graphical irc clients
[04:44:28] <Kefka> hmm, well, i will give ircII a try out as well
[04:44:35] <DraX> just use epic
[04:44:35] <Kefka> i'm just getting my feet wet
[04:44:37] <DraX> ircii is ancient
[04:44:59] <Kefka> ok
[04:45:49] <Kefka> btw, this may seem like a dumb question, but since i am new, do you know if GAIM works under KDE2?
[04:46:01] <DraX> yes
[04:46:03] <DraX> but you need gtk
[04:46:23] <Kefka> would that have been installed as standard with Debian?
[04:46:35] <DraX> ugh, i have no idea
[04:46:41] <DraX> apt-get update
[04:46:46] <DraX> apt-get install gtk
[04:46:47] <Kefka> just curious, what do you use?
[04:46:50] <DraX> (i think)
[04:46:53] <DraX> I use OpenBSD
[04:46:56] <Kefka> ah
[04:46:57] <Kefka> oh yeah
[04:47:08] <Kefka> must be late, i should have remembered that
[04:47:44] <DraX> i should get a k6 266, and replace my 233 with it
[04:47:49] <DraX> but continue to run the proc at 233
[04:48:06] <DraX> because the original k6's have some major stability issues
[04:48:21] <Kefka> is there a reason not to upgrade to a 1.4 Athlon?
[04:48:33] <DraX> Kefka, i'd need a new motherboard, and case
[04:48:41] <DraX> and money
[04:48:45] <Kefka> ok
[04:48:54] <Kefka> well, thats a reason :)
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[05:06:12] <DraX> lalala
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[06:41:28] <phdeux> Hi there, anyone here who can help a relative newbie?
[06:42:20] --- phdeux is now known as phydeux
[06:42:40] <phydeux> Hello?????
[06:45:07] <phydeux> What's the point of you guys being in this channel if you don't DO anything in it? *LOL*
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[06:56:45] <Kefka> er
[06:56:48] <Kefka> doh
[06:57:04] <Kefka> phydeux, hopefully you read the logs
[06:57:14] <Kefka> i can help you out.. i was afk
[06:57:30] <Kefka> brb
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[10:25:22] <sum1> hello
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[10:44:30] --- ChanServ has changed the topic to: Exult, the open source Ultima 7 and U7 part 2 engine
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[10:56:38] --- ChanServ has changed the topic to: Exult, the open source Ultima 7 and U7 part 2 engine
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[11:22:35] <wjp> hi
[11:45:44] <Kirben> Hi wjp
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[12:02:27] <fingolfin> hiya
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[12:20:36] <fingolfin> hi K
[12:21:18] <Kefka> oh, hey fingolfin
[12:21:31] <Kefka> Linux is up and running great
[12:21:50] <Kefka> although i do have one last problem
[12:22:07] <Kefka> kde sound server denies access to regular users
[12:22:15] <Kefka> but allows access when i am root
[12:22:40] <fingolfin> hm, I am afraid I canīt help you with that. maybe wjp has a clue
[12:25:21] <wjp> hi
[12:25:32] <Kefka> hi
[12:25:33] <wjp> sorry, don't know kde
[12:25:52] <Kefka> everyone i have talked to has basically said kde == evil
[12:26:08] <Kefka> i dunno what's so bad about it.. its GPL after all
[12:26:20] <wjp> I wouldn't know if kde is evil; I just prefer gnome
[12:27:50] <Kefka> hmm.. maybe if i can scrape up another computer
[12:28:01] <Kefka> i will put gnome on that so i will be able to see which i like better
[12:28:14] <wjp> you don't have both installed?
[12:28:27] <Kefka> i don't you can have both installed at one time
[12:28:36] <Kefka> insert: think
[12:28:45] <wjp> sure you can
[12:29:01] <wjp> I can select gnome/kde/fvwm2/some others whenever I login
[12:29:12] <Kefka> but how would linux know which to use when i type startx
[12:29:47] <wjp> oh, you don't boot into runlevel 5 by default?
[12:29:59] <Kefka> i dunno what that means
[12:30:07] <Kefka> my computer boots to a gui
[12:30:08] <fingolfin> it means booting up in X IIRC ;)
[12:30:16] <fingolfin> ah ok
[12:30:18] <wjp> fingolfin: yeah :-)
[12:30:20] <Kefka> which has login and stuff
[12:30:30] <Kefka> but i always have to console login
[12:30:37] <wjp> you do? why?
[12:30:38] <Kefka> cause gpm screws up my mouse in X
[12:30:47] <Kefka> so i gotta do a killall -9 gpm
[12:30:54] <Kefka> everytime i reboot
[12:31:07] <fingolfin> I would install KDE next to Gnome on my OS X box, too, but a) KDE is not yet ported and b) I donīt really use much of Gnome either, only indirectly
[12:31:50] <wjp> you can disable gpm permanently with:
[12:32:01] <wjp> chkconfig --level 123456 gpm off
[12:32:34] <Kefka> if i type that in an xterm right now, will that work alright?
[12:32:45] <wjp> if you do it as root, yes
[12:32:51] <Kefka> ok, i am root
[12:33:27] <Kefka> chaos:~# cd /
[12:33:27] <Kefka> chaos:/# chkconfig --level 123456 gpm off
[12:33:27] <Kefka> bash: chkconfig: command not found
[12:33:27] <Kefka> chaos:/#
[12:33:28] <wjp> oh, btw, to select gnome/kde using startx I think you need to edit your ~/.xsession
[12:33:41] <wjp> what distro are you using?
[12:33:45] <Kefka> debian sid
[12:34:00] <wjp> hmm, they may do things differently
[12:34:21] <wjp> try /sbin/chkconfig
[12:34:27] <Kefka> you use redhat?
[12:34:34] <wjp> yeah
[12:34:54] <fingolfin> try "whereis chkconfig"
[12:35:04] <wjp> or "locate chkconfig"
[12:35:13] <Kefka> its find -name chkconfig
[12:35:17] <Kefka> isn't it?
[12:35:30] <wjp> that would work too, but is slower
[12:35:35] <fingolfin> yeah
[12:35:49] <fingolfin> or fire up Sherlock and search for chkconfig, if you are on OS X ;)
[12:36:01] <Kefka> locate didn't find anything
[12:36:07] <Kefka> whereis came back with chkconfig:
[12:36:16] <wjp> ok... so it works differently in debian
[12:36:17] <Kefka> "chkconfig:"
[12:36:40] <Kefka> UM
[12:36:57] <Kefka> IT SEEMS I HAVE LOST CONTROL OF MY CAPS LOCK KEY>>
[12:37:14] <Kefka> GAH>> I HAVE TO RESTART X
[12:37:28] <wjp> strange
[12:37:41] <wjp> have you tried pressing both shifts a couple of times?
[12:37:55] <wjp> it looks more like a stuck shift key than caps lock
[12:38:02] * fingolfin discovers "Pillars of Garendall" has been released and jumps up and down excitedly
[12:38:06] <wjp> (since the .'s are turned into >'s too)
[12:38:13] <Kefka> YEAH I JUST HIT THEM A COUPLE TIMES
[12:38:17] <wjp> fingolfin: what's that?
[12:38:20] <Kefka> er
[12:38:21] <Kefka> whoa
[12:38:24] <Kefka> there we go
[12:38:33] <Kefka> guess it just needed a smash
[12:38:36] <Kefka> instead of a hit
[12:38:45] <Kefka> damn MS keyboard
[12:38:49] <Kefka> ok
[12:38:53] <Kefka> back to chkconfig
[12:38:58] <fingolfin> wjp: http://www.AmbrosiaSW.com/games/pog/
[12:39:13] <wjp> ok, the command you need seems to be update-rc.d
[12:39:17] <fingolfin> wjp: ambrosia is a software company that is famous for *excellent* sharware with mac users
[12:39:18] <wjp> I don't know the syntax though
[12:39:26] <wjp> Maelstrom!
[12:39:54] <Kefka> hmm
[12:40:01] <fingolfin> wjp: yeah, that is by Andrew Welch, the "boss" of Ambrosia
[12:40:12] <fingolfin> wjp: Sam Lantinga, Mr SDL, ported it to SDL
[12:40:54] <wjp> hmm, no linux version :-(
[12:41:18] <wjp> I really should try a debian system sometime
[12:41:24] <Kefka> wjp
[12:41:30] <fingolfin> wjp: no sadly not; but this is the first time they have a windows version, too - because Coldstone, the engine they wrote & use for it, works on both win & macos
[12:41:33] <Kefka> i've installed it like 12 times now
[12:41:39] <Kefka> i can help ya out
[12:41:41] <Kefka> :)
[12:41:47] <wjp> :-)
[12:42:43] <Kefka> its actually kinda easy once you know what you're doing
[12:43:06] <Kefka> just avoid installing xserver-vga16 and xserver-svga
[12:43:15] <Kefka> and you should be fine
[12:44:02] <wjp> if I ever install it I'll probably do a no-X install
[12:44:22] <Kefka> whoa.. then thats really easy
[12:44:36] <Kefka> should be a piece of cake
[12:44:55] <Kefka> i basically wanted my system to run linux, but look like and function like Windows
[12:45:18] <Kefka> and i have to use X to do that.. which is where i had all of my trouble
[12:45:48] <Kefka> x-chat == mirc
[12:45:51] <Kefka> gaim == aim
[12:45:59] <Kefka> xmms == winamp
[12:46:02] <Kefka> etc
[12:46:12] <wjp> well, I already have RH71 setup for X here
[12:46:26] <wjp> I'd just install it to see what it's like
[12:46:54] <Kefka> you'll love apt-get
[12:47:27] <wjp> brb
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[12:54:14] <Colourless> hi
[12:54:22] <Kefka> hi
[12:54:23] <fingolfin> hi
[12:56:09] <wjp> b
[12:56:12] <wjp> hi
[12:56:50] <fingolfin> wb
[12:58:41] <Kefka> think i'm losing my sanity... i'm addicted to regis and kathie lee
[12:59:11] <Kefka> love that line
[13:01:26] <Kefka> ugh
[13:01:28] <Kefka> need help
[13:01:45] <Colourless> why do people always come here and want help
[13:01:53] <Colourless> :-)
[13:02:07] <Kefka> cause they know how helpful you are Colourless
[13:02:13] <Kefka> :)
[13:02:37] <Kefka> ok
[13:02:40] <Kefka> Zsnes
[13:02:44] <Kefka> CVS Source
[13:02:51] <Kefka> how do i compile it
[13:03:02] <Colourless> you see, already I can say, can't help you :)
[13:03:04] <Kefka> as in, generically, how do i compile cvs dource
[13:03:05] <wjp> my guess would be "./configure; make"
[13:03:10] <Kefka> s/dource/source
[13:03:26] <wjp> they should have a README or INSTALL or BUILD file with instructions
[13:03:35] <Kefka> ok
[13:04:48] <Kefka> ...
[13:04:58] <Kefka> my mouse just froze up..
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[13:06:46] <Kefka> back
[13:07:45] <-- Kefka has left IRC (Read error to Kefka[cc51780-a.warn1.mi.home.com]: EOF from client)
[13:10:44] <Colourless> wasn't back for long :)
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[13:11:44] <Kefka> ...
[13:11:56] <Colourless> back again :)
[13:12:14] <Colourless> so, are you compiling Zsnes just so you can enjoy the compelling experience known as Ultima VII for SNES?
[13:12:23] <Colourless> i was waiting for your return to say that
[13:14:03] <Kefka> ah
[13:14:07] <Kefka> heh
[13:14:25] <Kefka> nope.. i was just recruited as a bug checker
[13:14:29] <Kefka> by mkendora
[13:15:04] <Kefka> wjp: if i was going to compile exult for linux, what is the first step?
[13:15:25] <wjp> download the source
[13:15:39] <Colourless> haha
[13:15:42] <Kefka> Colourless: one of my friends who lives 300 miles away has my Ultima Collection CD :(
[13:15:46] <wjp> ;-)
[13:16:24] <wjp> go to the source dir, and then "./configure; make"
[13:16:35] <wjp> if you don't have configure yet, first run "./autogen.sh" to generate it
[13:16:38] <Kefka> /etc/src?
[13:16:55] <wjp> no, wherever you put the exult source
[13:17:32] <Kefka> how do i download the source besides manually clicking on each file in cvs?
[13:17:54] <wjp> hmm, then you're probably using some graphical front-end to cvs
[13:18:03] <Kefka> i am using konqueror
[13:18:06] <Kefka> heh
[13:18:16] <fingolfin> erh
[13:18:21] <wjp> oh, you're using webCVS on SF
[13:18:25] <Kefka> yeah
[13:18:28] <fingolfin> CVSWeb is only meant to look at the CVS, not to use it for compiling
[13:18:35] <Kefka> i don't "get" the concept of cvs
[13:18:38] <wjp> or CVSweb, whatever :-)
[13:18:38] <Kefka> i like it
[13:18:41] <Colourless> well, considering that we just released Alpha5, you should be able to just download the entire source if you want
[13:18:52] <fingolfin> Kefka: use the cvs Command line command; or get a graphical client from the CVSgui project if you really want a GUI
[13:19:08] <Colourless> plus, Kirben does daily snapshots of the source
[13:19:16] <Kefka> ok
[13:19:18] <wjp> http://sourceforge.net/cvs/?group_id=2335 has the instructions for the command line version
[13:20:32] <Kefka> what does -z3 do?
[13:20:39] <wjp> compression level 3
[13:20:42] <Colourless> compressiong
[13:20:45] <Colourless> remove that g
[13:21:02] <Colourless> don't ask how it got there, i've no idea really :)
[13:21:20] <Kefka> hmm
[13:21:21] <wjp> probably because you pressed the 'g' key ;-)
[13:21:29] <Kefka> cvs: command not found
[13:21:35] <Colourless> no shit sherlock :)
[13:21:48] <wjp> apt-get install cvs, I guess
[13:21:55] <Kefka> ok
[13:21:56] <wjp> (or whatever the syntax for apt-get is)
[13:22:00] <fingolfin> Colourless: I bet you have been watching me too foten
[13:22:02] <fingolfin> often I mean ;)
[13:22:11] <wjp> hehe :-)
[13:22:19] <Colourless> :)
[13:22:25] <wjp> fingolfin: PoG looks nice
[13:22:50] <fingolfin> wjp: yeah, but they download server is completly swamped; dog slow; I hope this put up some mirrors RSN
[13:23:25] <wjp> hmm, release date says tomorrow
[13:23:55] <wjp> 150 Mb?! ouch
[13:25:53] <wjp> brb, lunch
[13:26:13] <fingolfin> wjp: it already there for download, adn the demo is "only" 30 mb
[13:26:25] <Kefka> may i flood 5 lines?
[13:26:28] <fingolfin> ...and I already got 18% of that ;)
[13:26:30] <fingolfin> Kefka: go
[13:26:35] <Kefka> chaos:/# cvs -d:pserver:anonymous@cvs.exult.sourceforge.net:/cvsroot/exult loginLogging in to :pserver:anonymous@cvs.exult.sourceforge.net:2401/cvsroot/exult
[13:26:35] <Kefka> CVS password:
[13:26:35] <Kefka> cvs login: failed to open /root/.cvspass for reading: No such file or directory
[13:26:35] <Kefka> cvs [login aborted]: fatal error: exiting
[13:26:57] <Kefka> i hit enter for password
[13:34:56] <fingolfin> hm
[13:35:05] <wjp> strange, it works for me
[13:35:39] <wjp> only it says "(Logging in to anonymous@cvs.exult.sourceforge.net)" here
[13:35:40] <Kefka> i will try again
[13:35:47] <Kefka> i will hand type it in
[13:36:06] <wjp> I copy-pasted from you
[13:36:49] <fingolfin> ugh, our confiure.in really has some *weird* stuff in it
[13:36:54] <fingolfin> configure.in even
[13:37:00] <wjp> yeah, I know
[13:37:03] <Kefka> hmm
[13:37:13] <Kefka> i just hit enter and leave blank the password right?
[13:37:24] <wjp> yeah
[13:37:27] <Kefka> hmm
[13:37:37] <fingolfin> I am cleaning it up now, I have to to get some things working. When I check in, Iīll ask you guys to test what I broke, and in emergencies youīll be able to go back to an older rev ;)
[13:37:44] <Kefka> can i log in when i am root?
[13:38:01] <wjp> I don't see why not
[13:38:03] <wjp> fingolfin: sure
[13:39:06] <wjp> Kefka: you really shouldn't do everything as root, though
[13:39:12] <Kefka> i know
[13:39:21] <Kefka> if i could get sound as non-root
[13:39:25] <Kefka> i'd be logged in as kefka
[13:39:37] <Kefka> but mp3's take precedence over security
[13:39:56] <wjp> do you have a /root/.cvspass file?
[13:40:35] <Kefka> i don't even have a /root dir
[13:40:53] <Kefka> er
[13:40:56] <Kefka> yeah i do
[13:41:00] <Kefka> its ~
[13:41:27] <Kefka> no .cvspass though
[13:42:35] <wjp> try creating an empty one
[13:42:43] <wjp> ("touch /root/.cvspass")
[13:45:26] <Kefka> not working
[13:45:52] <wjp> what error msg. do you get now?
[13:46:19] <Kefka> none
[13:46:26] <Kefka> i just don't see a .cvspass file
[13:46:29] <wjp> oh, then it probably works
[13:46:33] <Kefka> in that directory
[13:46:35] <Kefka> when i do a ls
[13:46:46] <wjp> you need a ls -a to see dot files
[13:47:06] <Kefka> ah
[13:48:01] <Kefka> CVS password:
[13:48:01] <Kefka> cvs login: warning: skipping invalid entry in password file at line 1
[13:48:08] --- fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|away
[13:48:09] <Fingolfin|away> bbl
[13:48:36] <wjp> hmm
[13:48:46] <wjp> ah well, a warning is better than an error
[13:49:42] <Kefka> Logging in to :pserver:anonymous@cvs.exult.sourceforge.net:2401/cvsroot/exult
[13:49:47] <Kefka> ok
[13:50:01] <Kefka> rm'ed .cvspass
[13:50:05] <Kefka> then recreated it
[13:50:05] <wjp> so now you should be able to use the second command
[13:50:16] <wjp> (modulename = 'exult')
[13:51:01] <Kefka> where did it put all of that?
[13:52:02] <Kefka> hmm
[13:52:06] <Kefka> in root
[13:52:21] <Colourless> heh :)
[13:52:35] <Kefka> how would i redirect that to /etc/src?
[13:52:44] <wjp> just run it from there
[13:52:49] <Kefka> ok
[13:52:57] <wjp> or "mv /root/exult /usr/rc"
[13:53:03] <wjp> um, /usr/src
[13:53:32] <Kefka> then i do make xconfig?
[13:53:41] <wjp> ?
[13:54:00] <Kefka> ok
[13:54:05] <-- Kirben has left IRC (System Meltdown)
[13:54:09] <wjp> we don't have any fancy config tools, I'm afraid
[13:54:17] <wjp> ./autogen.sh
[13:54:19] <Kefka> oh
[13:54:20] <wjp> ./configure
[13:54:24] <wjp> make
[13:54:33] <Kefka> i was just mimicing a kernel configure
[13:55:04] <wjp> you have to pass any config options to ./configure
[13:55:16] <wjp> (use ./configure --help to get a list of them)
[13:55:32] <Kefka> chaos:/usr/src/exult# ./autogen.sh
[13:55:32] <Kefka> ./autogen.sh: libtoolize: command not found
[13:55:32] <Kefka> ./autogen.sh: aclocal: command not found
[13:55:32] <Kefka> ./autogen.sh: autoheader: command not found
[13:55:32] <Kefka> ./autogen.sh: automake: command not found
[13:55:33] <Kefka> ./autogen.sh: autoconf: command not found
[13:55:42] <Kefka> back to apt?
[13:55:53] <wjp> apt-get install automake autoconf libtool
[13:56:08] <wjp> yup
[13:56:17] <Kefka> ugh.. um
[13:56:31] <Kefka> maybe we can get back to this in a little bit.. i need to eat something..
[13:56:42] <wjp> k
[13:56:46] <Kefka> i have been sitting in front of the computer for about 12 hours straight..
[13:56:57] <Kefka> i need like a half hour
[13:57:10] <wjp> sure, I'll be here :-)
[13:57:15] <Kefka> ok
[13:57:19] <Kefka> back in a little bit
[13:57:22] <Kefka> thanks
[13:57:24] * Kefka is away
[14:46:26] <Kefka> must sleep.. talk to you guys tomorrow
[14:46:33] <Colourless> bye
[14:46:43] --- Kefka is now known as Kefka-ZzZ
[15:48:10] <wjp> I have to go
[15:48:12] <wjp> see you later
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[16:43:19] <Dougy> anyone around?
[16:43:25] <Colourless> hi
[16:43:28] <Dougy> hey
[16:43:39] <Dougy> why is it you can't carry more than 1 bag
[16:43:50] <Dougy> or I guess pouches or whatever
[16:44:17] <Colourless> volume calculations aren't quite right yet
[16:44:26] <Dougy> ah
[16:44:40] <Dougy> and how do you activate paper doll?
[16:45:10] <Colourless> you need to have serpent isle installed and the paths must be properly setup. they will then automatically be enabled
[16:45:20] <Dougy> oh i see
[16:45:24] <Dougy> thanks
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[18:37:23] <Fingolfin|away> hi
[18:38:51] <wjp> hi
[18:38:55] <wjp> still away? :-)
[18:39:47] --- Fingolfin|away is now known as Fingolfin
[18:39:50] <Fingolfin> no I just came back ;)
[18:45:39] <wjp> funny... phorum interprets <blackgate> as HTML, but not <serpentisle>
[18:46:15] <wjp> or more precisely: it converts <serpentisle> to <serpentisle>, but keeps <blackgate> literally
[18:50:17] <Fingolfin> hm
[19:13:03] --- Fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|dinner
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[20:42:57] --- Fingolfin|dinner is now known as Fingolfin
[20:49:04] <wjp> have to get up early tomorrow :/
[20:49:07] <wjp> night
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[23:15:34] <Fingolfin> wb
[23:16:14] <Kefka> hi
[23:17:05] <Kefka> i just realized that although Debian is usually thought of as a very conservative distribution, it can also be thought of as very progressive
[23:17:22] <Kefka> if you upgrade to sid and apt-get update, apt-get upgrade every day
[23:18:06] <Kefka> as long as the maintainer keeps the maintaining up to date, that is
[23:18:46] <Kefka> i saw alpha4 still in sid, but since you released about 24 hours ago, thats understandable
[23:26:52] <Fingolfin> he yeah
[23:27:21] <Fingolfin> well, debian is doing something right IMHO - have a stable tree, testing and unstable is good
[23:28:14] <Kefka> yeah
[23:28:51] <Kefka> Do you know the reason why apt or a clone hasn't been adopted by other distributions such as Red Hat or Mandrake?
[23:29:05] <Fingolfin> they have their own systems
[23:29:09] <Fingolfin> and apt has a big problem
[23:29:17] <Fingolfin> it has many assumptions hard coded in
[23:29:33] <Kefka> it does?
[23:29:40] <Fingolfin> we are trying to use it for fink on MacOS X, but it is not easy since things are slighlty differen here compared to debian
[23:29:45] <Fingolfin> (even though we use dpkg)
[23:30:05] <Kefka> since apt is gpl
[23:30:17] <Kefka> couldn't you just fix the problems?
[23:30:29] <Fingolfin> let me cite:
[23:30:31] <Fingolfin> There are three troublemakers when porting apt:
[23:30:32] <Fingolfin> - It was written for Linux/ELF/glibc.
[23:30:32] <Fingolfin> - It was written to maintain a distribution that is in charge of the
[23:30:32] <Fingolfin> system and hardcodes paths like /usr/bin, /usr/lib and /var/lib.
[23:30:32] <Fingolfin> - There is no install target in the Makefiles because the Debian
[23:30:32] <Fingolfin> packaging files take care of what goes where.
[23:30:48] <Fingolfin> There's also the usual trouble like not recognizing Darwin and
[23:30:48] <Fingolfin> depending on a case-sensitive file system. All of this amounts to a
[23:30:48] <Fingolfin> big, bad patch.
[23:32:06] <Kefka> hmm.. i can see how changing would be a huge task
[23:32:46] <Kefka> if they stopped hard coding, each package would have to have some option to configure where it goes defaultly
[23:33:06] <Kefka> but there should also be an override to put in in /usr/bin
[23:33:18] <Fingolfin> well, we do have apt running, but it is not that easy to get the patches back to the main source base in a fashion that wonīt break it for debian ;)
[23:34:06] <Fingolfin> read point two again: it wants to be in charge
[23:34:09] <Fingolfin> that is a big problem
[23:34:27] <Fingolfin> it is not "tolerant" to the fact that it might not be "ruler" of the system
[23:35:04] <Kefka> hmm.. can't we all just get along? :)
[23:35:24] <Fingolfin> apt says no ;) by default at least
[23:35:28] <Kefka> heh
[23:35:49] <Fingolfin> also, if it would use libtool thatīll help. this way, Christoph (fink leader) had to change the code to generate shared libs manually
[23:36:45] <Kefka> hmm.. well, sounds like a new apt should be written that is universal
[23:37:12] <Fingolfin> it is not that bad; we can use it after all, after some source mods
[23:37:47] <Fingolfin> though I must admit, I havenīt tried it yet myself ;) I am one of the bleeding edge developers, testing all from unstable all the time
[23:38:04] <Fingolfin> well, that is my job - to build, install, fix new packages
[23:38:13] <Fingolfin> and to kick the authors if they do something bad ;)
[23:38:17] <Kefka> xchat is being dumb and blacking out some of the text you type
[23:38:27] <Kefka> forcing me to highlight it so i can see it
[23:38:48] <Kefka> lol
[23:38:51] <Kefka> kick the authors
[23:39:06] <Kefka> bad author! no cookie for you!
[23:39:15] <Fingolfin> ;)
[23:39:29] <Fingolfin> btw, I run xchat 1.8.1 on OS X, am the package maintainer ;)
[23:40:08] <Fingolfin> no wait, I already use 1.8.1, like you ;)
[23:40:08] <Kefka> hmm.. well, tell those linux goons to fix the problem where if you type more than the screen width of the screen
[23:40:14] <Fingolfin> 1.8.2
[23:40:14] <Fingolfin> sigh
[23:40:28] <Fingolfin> that works fine for me, hm
[23:40:34] <Kefka> then it will black out about 50% of that line
[23:40:51] <Kefka> but if i highlight it, it will be there if i unhighlight it
[23:40:55] <Kefka> btw - i use colored nicks
[23:41:32] <Kefka> type a line again
[23:41:46] <Kefka> thats longer than the screen width and forces to go on a second line
[23:51:23] <Kefka> hm.. now i am seeing pieces of the window behind xchat on xchat..
[23:51:28] <Kefka> i will just restart xchat
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[23:52:51] <Fingolfin> wb
[23:53:11] <Fingolfin> this is a long line which I just type for Kefka so he can see if everything is fine now or not, I hope of course all is fine!
[23:53:12] <Kefka> hi
[23:53:26] <Kefka> it's working now
[23:54:08] <Kefka> dunno, maybe it was a kde problem