#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 26 Jul 2002 (GMT)

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[01:26:42] <puff> hi
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[06:23:01] <wjp> hi
[06:23:19] <wjp> Kirben: could you make the snapshots/2.0 directory group-writable?
[06:25:12] <Kirben> how ?
[06:25:49] <wjp> just run the update.sh script in the htdocs/ directory, so, after you ssh to SF:
[06:25:55] <wjp> cd /home/groups/e/ex/exult/htdocs
[06:25:57] <wjp> ./update.sh
[06:26:15] <Kirben> done
[06:26:34] <wjp> thanks
[06:27:24] <wjp> k, I just added Artaxerxes' Zaurus package there
[06:33:51] <wjp> now, time for breakfast :-)
[06:33:51] <wjp> bye
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[07:10:53] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/
[07:10:53] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Thu Jul 4 20:16:33 2002
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[07:49:44] <Dominus> hi
[07:51:15] <Darke> Hi.
[07:51:29] <Dominus> so, we have a new member :-)
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[08:25:16] <Darke> Apparently. *grin*
[08:26:52] <Dominus> someone should give him the tour of the house sometime (like admin rights on the forum)
[08:28:00] * Darke grins. Indeed. Hmm... he wonders if he, himself actually has admin rights on the forum.
[08:28:10] <Dominus> he he
[08:28:27] <Dominus> you have to log in with the admin pass and assign admin rights
[08:28:39] <Dominus> to individual users
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[08:29:50] <Nadir> hi
[08:29:54] <Dominus> hi
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[08:30:05] <Nadir> better
[08:30:06] <Nadir> :)
[08:30:16] <Darke> Hi. *grin* Thanks.
[08:30:38] <Dominus> Nadir: what I always wanted to ask an Italian: how is the euro now accepted after 7 months?
[08:30:55] <Dominus> I mean apparently at the start there was a bit of outcry
[08:31:30] <Dominus> Nadir: that Darke is an imposter - he is not the right one
[08:31:35] <Dominus> :-)
[08:32:44] * Darke ehs? and looks at his paws and wriggles his tail. He thinks it's him. He could be wrong though.
[08:33:22] <Nadir> Dominus: no problems really
[08:33:33] <Nadir> things have become a little more expensive
[08:33:45] * Dominus nods
[08:33:57] <Dominus> in Germany we have the term "Teuro"
[08:34:15] <Dominus> because teuer=expensive in German
[08:34:16] <Nadir> it was quite easy for us, though, as the LIT->EUR conversion was quite easy (as was the DM->EUR)
[08:34:50] <Nadir> ~1DM=~1EUR
[08:34:54] <Dominus> 10000 LIT=0.5?
[08:34:56] <Nadir> sorry 2
[08:35:02] <Nadir> 2DM=~1EUR
[08:35:06] <Dominus> right
[08:35:23] <Nadir> and 1000LIT=~1DM
[08:35:37] <Nadir> got to go. bbl
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[08:36:00] <Dominus> hm, did he come just to give you op?
[08:36:22] <Darke> Bye.
[08:37:45] <Darke> Probably not. *grin*
[08:48:23] <Dominus> hm, if I'm to write a "quick and dirty guide" on how to use our web CVS - where should I put it? If I put it into the web-CVS it gets automatically added to the online web pages...
[08:49:30] <Darke> In exult/docs maybe?
[08:49:47] <Dominus> hmmm
[08:53:28] <Dominus> better phrasing for
[08:53:30] <Dominus> execute "./update.sh" gives the right permissions to everyone.
[08:53:33] <Dominus> please :-)
[08:56:49] <Dominus> I#m gone commit it to the web cvs anyway. As readme.
[08:57:01] * Darke noddles. Cool.
[08:58:35] <Dominus> I'm doing it as some of us may be confused on how to add/change stuff on the webpage (had to give a guide to Simon and Jeff before and wants to be ready for new memebers like Artaxerxes)
[08:58:59] <Darke> Makes sense.
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[09:30:11] <SB-X> hello
[09:30:30] <SB-X> exultbot_: you don't seem yourself today
[09:31:07] <Dominus> ?version
[09:31:07] <exultbot_> The latest official version of Exult is: 0.99.1rc2
[09:31:12] <Darke> 'ello.
[09:31:17] <Dominus> at least he still functions :-)
[09:33:14] <SB-X> 'ey
[09:33:16] <SB-X> yep
[09:33:24] <SB-X> i am experiencing a walk through wall bug
[09:33:29] <SB-X> and wondered if someone here can reproducei t
[09:33:57] <Dominus> save game or location and I'll try :-)
[09:34:11] <Darke> What compiler is it? Hopefully not 2.96. *grin*
[09:35:13] <SB-X> serpent's hold at Iolo's South
[09:35:25] <SB-X> Darke: no, thats why i didnt automatically assume it was the same bug
[09:35:38] <SB-X> but i dont know
[09:36:03] <Dominus> hm, Iolo's south? ah, it'S in the bug tracker?
[09:36:13] * Darke nods. No problem, he's just paranoid. *grin*
[09:36:26] <SB-X> i will post it if someone else can reproduce it here
[09:36:35] <SB-X> or doesn't want to test :)
[09:36:46] <SB-X> in that case someone will test it after i post
[09:36:50] <Dominus> well, then send me the savegame (or exact coordinates)
[09:38:16] <SB-X> sextant coords? 169S 31E
[09:38:43] <SB-X> hex coords 5a4 b11 0
[09:38:49] <Dominus> ok, will try now
[09:39:13] <SB-X> the walk through wall is where the sign that says "Iolo's South" is stuck to the wall
[09:43:57] <Dominus> I get it in the 1.1.x for sure (and I think it is a problem with plagues on the wall - try the fellowship hall in Britain, the west wall of the entrance)
[09:45:25] <Dominus> I actually knew about the wall of the Fellowship hall a long time ago, but always forgot about it...
[09:45:40] <SB-X> I see it there too, but there are pillars there that make it difficult to walk through and notice.
[09:45:46] <SB-X> ok
[09:45:52] * SB-X bows to Dominus.
[09:45:57] <SB-X> I thank thee for thy trouble milord.
[09:46:14] <Dominus> will you submit as bug?
[09:46:42] * SB-X nods.
[09:46:56] <Dominus> you can report it being reproducable with a gcc 3.1 compile
[09:48:08] <Dominus> it could also be a problem with shape #253 frame 0
[09:49:27] <SB-X> was it in the original?
[09:49:37] <Dominus> don't think so...
[09:55:08] * Dominus takes a look at the tracker and decides to get on marking some bug reports as invalid
[09:55:18] <SB-X> uh-oh :-)
[09:55:33] <Dominus> like "BG: no hollow trees" (there never were hllow trees in BG)
[09:55:35] * SB-X holds his reports tight.
[09:55:42] <SB-X> heh
[09:55:47] <SB-X> i didn't read any new ones
[09:58:55] <SB-X> ah i keep forgetting to click the checkmark to attach a file
[09:59:10] <Dominus> hm, SB-X, as you are playing BG: are there supposed to be reagents growing in the wild?
[09:59:27] <Dominus> I don't remember
[09:59:30] <SB-X> not "growing"
[09:59:36] <SB-X> actually maybe nightshade
[09:59:44] <SB-X> but sulferous ash comes from the mountains
[09:59:47] <SB-X> it doesnt grow
[10:00:12] <SB-X> it is semi-random
[10:00:24] <Dominus> but you have seen some?
[10:00:36] <SB-X> yes, near Destard
[10:00:41] <SB-X> in Exult even
[10:00:44] <Dominus> I'll leave this open for someone else to comment on...
[10:01:02] * SB-X submits a new bug report.
[10:06:06] <Dominus> ah, the food not being recognized if it is a drink is an issue with our keybindings
[10:07:04] <Dominus> It's an annoying problem in SI, when you have the everlasting goblet
[10:07:28] <SB-X> you mean i can change the keybindings file to fix it?
[10:08:10] <Dominus> yes, but only to assigne this one shape to f
[10:08:20] <SB-X> oh
[10:08:22] <SB-X> hmm
[10:08:27] <SB-X> all the food is in the same shape?
[10:08:33] <Dominus> the problem is that the way the keybinding works.
[10:08:48] <Dominus> exactly and the keybinding works only for one shape
[10:08:55] <SB-X> i didn't know that :-)
[10:09:13] <Dominus> it's a valid bug report
[10:09:28] <SB-X> spark is really loaded with drinks, so i expect him to serve us
[10:09:40] <SB-X> thats why im keeping him in the party... to carry our food
[10:09:58] <SB-X> even dupre let spark hold his favorite mug :-)
[10:10:07] <Dominus> that's all the party is for: pack mules
[10:10:19] <SB-X> yeah
[10:10:25] <SB-X> Iolo is gold
[10:10:30] <SB-X> Jaana is bandages and potions
[10:10:41] <SB-X> and the others are misc
[10:10:48] <SB-X> miscellaneous
[10:10:50] <Dominus> Iolo is always gold for me too
[10:10:50] <SB-X> :-)
[10:11:24] <SB-X> oh yeah, dupre is carrying all of, and only the virtue stones
[10:12:10] <Dominus> I don't know if you remember or even around at that time, but in the beginning we had a serious pproblem with the virtue stones
[10:12:28] <Dominus> they "ate" all of the museum stuff :-)
[10:12:49] <SB-X> i do not remember or was not even around at the time
[10:12:53] <SB-X> yes, that sounds pretty serious
[10:12:55] <Dominus> like little pac mans :-)
[10:13:03] <SB-X> how did you fix it?
[10:13:42] <Dominus> it was around the time when they were recognized as containers and all new games had the museum stuff put into them for some reason
[10:13:58] <Dominus> they were really heavy then :-)
[10:14:25] <Dominus> I think that was one of the savegame breakers which we had a lot in the pre-alpha days...
[10:15:19] <SB-X> why would they be containers?
[10:15:40] <Dominus> to store the location or something
[10:16:02] <SB-X> oh
[10:16:15] <SB-X> isn't the "general savegame corruption" fixed?
[10:16:32] <Dominus> we think so, not sure though
[10:18:38] <SB-X> do you know if there is a difficulty in making a exult<->ultima7 savegame converter?
[10:18:50] <Darke> It's one of those 'unprovable fixes', we've fixed a few things relating to savegame corruption, but we can't prove that all of those things we fixed, actually fixed the savegame corruption. *grin*
[10:19:02] <Dominus> I could be wrong about the virtue stones being containers now...
[10:19:29] <SB-X> Darke: or "incidental fixes"? :-)
[10:19:43] <Darke> You'd have to work out how the original save file stored everything, among other things, since I don't think there's a doc documenting it all.
[10:19:46] <Dominus> SB-X: well, I think we just don'T know how the original saved exactly
[10:19:47] * Darke snickers. Indeed.
[10:20:24] <SB-X> is there an strace like program for DOS?
[10:20:48] <SB-X> i guess not
[10:20:49] <Darke> You might be able to use a stepthrough debugger.
[10:21:05] <Darke> It would just depend upon how much voodoo would break it.
[10:21:27] <SB-X> but the debugger might not know what a read/write looks like?
[10:21:34] <Dominus> hmm, voodoo might be a problem....
[10:21:52] <SB-X> or is ultima7 filled with debugging symbols
[10:22:16] <Darke> No, you'd have to find out what the read/write areas are, then step through to find exactly the data in memory it's writing to disk.
[10:22:19] <SB-X> maybe the origin team made a special debugger for voodoo apps :)
[10:22:20] <Darke> Nope.
[10:23:01] <Darke> No idea. *grin*
[10:24:37] <SB-X> it would probably be similiar to the GAMEDAT directory?
[10:24:54] <SB-X> which u7tech.txt explains
[10:26:22] <SB-X> well.. not entirely the same
[10:27:05] <SB-X> hey did you guys tell the guy who wrote this about the stuff he hadnt learned yet?
[10:27:56] <Darke> It depends, we might still not even know quite a bit of it. *grin*
[10:28:07] <Dominus> he has posted on the forum already and so I guess he knows what we know
[10:28:59] <SB-X> how does the association "NPC" <-> "FACES.VGA" work
[10:29:40] <SB-X> i thought it was just -(NPC number)
[10:29:50] * Darke blinkies. Someone sent a 'Free Hot SeXXX' spam to the gcc-bug list. 0.0 Somedays surreality happens by itself.
[10:30:12] <Darke> Umm... RTFS? *grin*
[10:30:21] <SB-X> S?
[10:30:29] <Darke> Source. *grin*
[10:30:32] <SB-X> no...
[10:30:37] <SB-X> that's at the bottom of u7tech.txt
[10:30:54] <SB-X> i was giving an example :-)
[10:31:06] * Darke ahhs.
[10:33:15] <SB-X> were you able to talk to the gargoyle shrines on terfin in the original?
[10:33:42] <Darke> Not sure. I don't remember trying.
[10:33:53] * Dominus neither
[10:34:03] <SB-X> for some reason I thought you could, since you could in U6
[10:34:04] * Darke giggles.
[10:34:20] * SB-X feels silly for trying to talk to statues now.
[10:35:39] * Darke upgrades to the latest rpm. He doesn't know _why_ he needs to, but it would seem that both kdeadmin and gnorpm needs it for some reason. (The reason for the latter is obvious, the former, isn't.) *grin*
[10:35:59] * SB-X doesn't know why Darke needs RPM at all.
[10:36:43] <Darke> Scratch that, only kdeadmin needs it, I don't have the other installed.
[10:37:02] <Darke> I don't. *grin* Kdeadmin needs it for reasons I'm not privy too.
[10:37:05] <SB-X> what is kdeadmin?
[10:37:29] <Darke> The 'kde administration tools' tar file.
[10:38:06] <SB-X> did you know that Sun has stated their JRE is only supported on GNOME environments?
[10:38:38] <Darke> That's rather odd.
[10:38:45] <SB-X> this was said on the blackbox ml
[10:38:57] <SB-X> after discussion about a serious java problem on blackbox
[10:39:11] * Darke can run java without a windowing environment what-so-ever.
[10:39:19] <SB-X> yeah
[10:39:29] <SB-X> someone said "That's like saying we don't support X"
[10:39:37] <SB-X> :-)
[10:39:51] <Darke> "We don't support a console frame buffer either."
[10:40:05] <Darke> "And a vt100 telnet session is _way_ out."
[10:40:49] * SB-X snerks.
[10:40:53] <SB-X> what about on teletype?
[10:40:56] <Darke> "Come back when you use something more standards comforming, like Windows for example." *grin* I admit I can't see that happening.
[10:41:04] <SB-X> heh
[10:41:34] <Darke> I know! Can you pipe gnome through something like AALIB? I'd like to see them support that! *grin*
[10:41:51] <SB-X> i actually think that would be interesting to see
[10:41:56] <SB-X> just cause i like aalib
[10:42:02] <SB-X> exult at least
[10:42:06] * SB-X shrugs
[10:42:21] <Darke> The refresh rate would likely be horrible for any 'good' resolution. *grin*
[10:42:44] <SB-X> im going to try it...
[10:43:02] <SB-X> i don't even use a 'good' resolution anyway hehe
[10:43:36] * Darke idles for a bit. Reality to attend to.
[10:44:04] <SB-X> strange, it doesn't work now - it at least displayed the menu before :-)
[10:44:05] <SB-X> ok
[10:47:10] * Darke snickers.
[10:51:24] * SB-X needs to sleep. *wave*
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[11:25:02] <Dominus> got to go now
[11:25:09] <Dominus> bye
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[11:25:19] <Darke> Bye!
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[11:30:23] <Darke> Hello again.
[11:35:09] <Nadir> b :)
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[12:05:30] <Fingolfin> yo
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[12:05:42] <Fingolfin> so Jeff is reading our IRQ log? very interesting indeed :-)
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[12:06:49] <Colourless> hi
[12:06:55] <Fingolfin> hi
[12:06:56] <Fingolfin> anybody here got experience writing an FTP client/server ?
[12:08:14] <Darke> Hi all.
[12:08:29] <Darke> Umm... no. *grin* Why do you ask?
[12:08:40] <Colourless> hey nadir: you know the other day how I said that using the adlib sfx would require low level programming of the emulator... well, the amount of low level programming is actually much less that I originally thought...
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[12:09:59] <wjp> hi
[12:10:11] <Colourless> nadir: getting the sfx to work with si will actually be dead easy... bg on the other hand would still be reasonably difficult as how to play each sfx was hardcoded into the engine ;-)
[12:10:13] <Colourless> hi wjp
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[12:10:56] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/
[12:10:56] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Thu Jul 4 20:16:33 2002
[12:11:12] <Fingolfin> hi willem
[12:11:16] <Fingolfin> http://war.jgaa.com/ftp
[12:11:25] * Fingolfin has to implement FTP code for his company it seems <sigh>
[12:11:31] <wjp> oooh... fun :/
[12:11:42] <wjp> client or server?
[12:11:47] <Fingolfin> we need to transfer files, between a couple MB and a couple GB. And somebody decided that we should use FTP
[12:12:01] <Fingolfin> probably both... for client, I might get off by using curl / libcurl
[12:12:47] <Colourless> why do you actually need to write them though? couldn't you use something that is already out there?
[12:14:22] <wjp> *sigh*.. there are some serious issues with the phorum user admin
[12:14:29] <Fingolfin> Colourless: that's my thought, too. However, it needs to be available as source / a lib. Basically, the app will have a "Send" button
[12:14:53] <Fingolfin> Colourless: I am not so sure FTP is the right thing for the job anyway
[12:14:57] <Colourless> oh ok
[12:15:24] <Fingolfin> since want to send files from point A to B - so it's more like peer-to-peer. Alas, the receive usually will be some service provider
[12:15:28] <wjp> some online banking program of a dutch bank uses FTP too
[12:15:32] <Fingolfin> hence, the idea to use client/server
[12:15:36] <Fingolfin> wjp: hu?
[12:15:48] <wjp> protocol involves sending files back and forth containing keys and such :-)
[12:15:57] <wjp> really brilliant... *cough*
[12:16:49] * Darke considers running screaming in the opposite direction. *grin*
[12:19:54] <Fingolfin> wjp: ouch
[12:20:06] <Fingolfin> wjp: that would convince me to switch the bank I think <g>
[12:20:34] <wjp> I don't use that bank, luckily :-)
[12:20:55] <wjp> their current web-based internet banking is interesting too
[12:21:19] <wjp> you get a little calculator-type thingie, which is used for challenge-response authentication
[12:21:45] <wjp> when logging in to their website, you get a code, have to enter that into the so-called 'e-dentifier', and return the code it gives you
[12:22:03] <wjp> sounds very nice, except for the fact that you need to repeat this about once every couple of minutes
[12:22:13] <wjp> ...which gets really annoying real soon :-)
[12:24:16] * Darke snickers.
[12:25:41] * wjp curses phorum
[12:25:54] <wjp> why does it think my username is X1Z2jiYBeu0SgQG1E7KlJw==?
[12:26:07] <Fingolfin> lol
[12:26:47] * Darke thinks phorum needs a new set of glasses, or something.
[12:26:56] <wjp> I think register_globals is playing tricks
[12:27:21] <wjp> they pass the username in a form element named 'username'; I wonder if there's also a cookie and/or session var username
[12:28:41] <Colourless> phorum seems to do a lot of silly things with form elements. didn't you already fix one problem with ie and phorum
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[12:29:15] <wjp> that patch didn't apply properly with the new version
[12:29:28] <wjp> so I skipped it :-)
[12:29:34] <wjp> (wrongly assuming they fixed it)
[12:29:39] * Darke hmms... there doesn't seem to be a 'username' cookie associated with phorum.
[12:30:24] <wjp> yes, I don't see it either
[12:34:07] * wjp adds debugging info
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[12:34:43] <wjp> yup, it's a cookie
[12:34:48] <wjp> get:
[12:34:48] <wjp> post:
[12:34:48] <wjp> cookie: X1Z2jiYBeu0SgQG1E7KlJw==
[12:35:16] <wjp> (when printing ($HTTP_GET_VARS|$HTTP_POST_VAR|$HTTP_COOKIE_VARS)['username']
[12:35:17] <wjp> )
[12:35:50] <Darke> Cool.
[12:36:28] <wjp> which is exactly why you shouldn't depend on register_globals.. *sigh* :-)
[12:37:54] <wjp> (or not without properly thinking it through, anyway ;-) )
[12:38:09] * Darke snickers.
[12:39:33] <wjp> of course I still can't actually login now...
[12:47:14] <wjp> which is because of exactly the same reason... *sigh*
[12:47:26] <wjp> login.php: get:
[12:47:26] <wjp> post: wjp
[12:47:26] <wjp> cookie: X1Z2jiYBeu0SgQG1E7KlJw==
[12:51:32] * Darke yawns and hops off to sleep. Night!
[12:51:38] <wjp> night
[12:51:41] <Darke> Good luck with figuring out the problem btw. *grin*
[12:51:42] <Colourless> cya
[12:51:48] --- Darke is now known as Darke|zzZ
[12:52:27] <Colourless> well, this ail sdk of mine that i've had for at least 18 months is finally getting some actual use. i knew that i should have kept it :-)
[12:52:39] <wjp> ail?
[12:53:13] <Colourless> IBM Audio Interface Library (AIL) aka Miles Sound System
[12:53:18] <wjp> ah.. that :-)
[12:53:32] * wjp blinks... ahh... sourceforge.net set a username cookie
[12:53:45] <Colourless> hehe
[12:54:00] <Colourless> now, that wasn't something you could have expected :-)
[12:54:23] <wjp> definitely another argument against register_globals, though :-)
[12:55:34] <Colourless> the opl driver that i'm making for exult is going to end up being a fairly complete xmidi player. it's actually going to support most of the xmidi features (except multiple streams... for now anyway)
[12:55:48] <wjp> nice :-)
[12:56:33] <Colourless> what that really means is i'll be able to (am are actually in si) use the instrument defintions that came with the original games. no patch conversion required
[12:56:39] <Colourless> sounds better that way too
[12:56:45] <wjp> ok... why doesn't it work _this_ time?!
[12:57:11] <wjp> oh... typo :-)
[12:58:20] <Colourless> of course, the ultima 7 programmers just had to use multiple sound drivers, each with a different method of storing the instrument data :-)
[13:02:34] <Nadir> b
[13:05:45] <Nadir> It appears that I have this knack for pointing Colourless to an interesting/complex task and after some initial resistence, he comes back with the finished thing :)
[13:06:01] <Nadir> It happened with the status bars too...
[13:06:39] <Colourless> this is 'far' from finished yet :-)
[13:08:19] <Nadir> yes, I gathered that, but it seems I got you quote interested :)
[13:08:26] <Nadir> s/quote/quite/
[13:09:01] <Colourless> yes, a little bit
[13:10:55] <Colourless> a big factor that pushed me was also just that using instrument conversion sounded really bad. it didn't take me long to realise that isntruments were only specified with 11 bytes, and the instrument data that came with the original games were also 11 bytes each :-)
[13:11:03] <wjp> ok, that should fix the forum login troubles... *phew*
[13:11:37] <Colourless> without the ail sdk it wouldn't have been 'so' easy to get it somewhat functional. with the games and the emulator use the same data, the byte ordering was different :-)
[13:12:35] <Colourless> if 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 is the emulator, then the original games used 0 2 4 6 8 10 1 3 5 7 9
[13:13:14] <wjp> funny :-)
[13:28:28] <Nadir> Colourless: does it sound as the original SB did ?
[13:39:51] <Nadir> anyone remember what I need to do to avoid typing my password when I cvs to exult ?
[13:40:16] * wjp nods
[13:40:25] <wjp> you need to enter your ssh public key on SF somewhere
[13:40:45] <wjp> user settings, I think
[13:41:36] <Colourless> Nadir: it sounds reasonbly close... i think. i just can't really remember what the original actually sounded like
[13:43:24] <Colourless> at the moment there's not percussion channel though (haven't implemented it yet)
[13:43:58] <Colourless> s/not/no/
[13:55:16] <Nadir> Colourless: bad
[13:55:26] <Nadir> as in "it sounded bad" :)
[13:56:14] <Colourless> hmm, well, if you quantize it down to that one word, then yes it is exactly the same :-)
[13:56:58] <wjp> hehe :-)
[13:58:13] <-- Kirben has left #exult ()
[14:27:58] --> artaxerxes has joined #exult
[14:29:45] <artaxerxes> hi
[14:30:05] <wjp> hi
[14:30:20] <Colourless> hi
[14:30:40] <artaxerxes> Colourless: I've got a question regarding your port to PPC.
[14:31:01] <artaxerxes> Does it have a built-in cursor (keypad type)?
[14:31:28] <Colourless> yeah it does
[14:32:04] <artaxerxes> good. So you anticipate using it for moving or you want to use another system ?
[14:32:15] <artaxerxes> s/system/way
[14:32:23] <Colourless> no way. i can't guarentee that every system has it
[14:32:47] <Colourless> it's an optional part of the system from memory according to ms
[14:33:26] <artaxerxes> hm. What's your plan regarding moving around then?
[14:33:48] <Colourless> use the stylus
[14:34:28] <Colourless> just hold it one the screen as if it were the mouse pointer on the computer
[14:34:53] <Colourless> i'm pretty sure i mentioned that the other day
[14:36:07] <artaxerxes> bbl... I'd like to talk with you about that more in depth, Colourless...
[14:36:26] <wjp> ooh... those '...' at the end look ominous :-)
[14:36:47] <artaxerxes> :)
[14:36:47] <Colourless> yes they do don't they :-)
[14:36:58] <Colourless> especially since he also said my name :-)
[14:37:28] <artaxerxes> anyways... :) I'll bbl. Got to get my shoes fixed.
[14:37:49] --- artaxerxes is now known as artaxerxes|afk
[14:49:34] --- artaxerxes|afk is now known as artaxerxes
[14:50:20] <artaxerxes> Colourless: are there any keys (buttons) available on any PPC, AFAYK ?
[14:51:02] <Colourless> each device should have 4 buttons
[14:51:35] <Colourless> a 4 direction dpad is optional AFAIK, and a 2 direction 'rocker' is also optional
[14:52:22] <artaxerxes> so at most, there are 10 buttons/rockers and at least, 4. Right?
[14:52:51] <Colourless> yeah at most 10, at least 4
[14:53:15] <artaxerxes> good.
[14:53:52] <artaxerxes> And you intend to use one of those buttons as a Mod key... So that Mod + drag = drag an object
[14:54:01] <Colourless> on 'some' devices it may be possible to use a keyboard, but sdl's key support for wince isn't exactly completley function as far as I can tell
[14:54:03] <Colourless> artaxerxes: yeah
[14:54:06] <Nadir> wjp: thanks for the ssh tip, I missed it
[14:54:12] <wjp> np :-)
[14:54:38] <Colourless> the buttons would be assigned something like 'action mod', 'combat toggle', 'menu', 'save gump' or something
[14:54:41] <artaxerxes> oh, btw wjp, Dominus told me to ask you about ops in #exult
[14:55:10] * wjp nods
[14:55:23] <wjp> if you register your nick with nickserv (/msg nickserv help), I'll give you auto-op
[14:57:33] <Colourless> artaxerxes: also i was intending for the current 'mode' of the pointer to be shown on the status bar. so if you press the mod button, you'll get feedback on the status bar
[14:58:34] <artaxerxes> makes sense.. I was thinking of the same thing
[14:58:43] <artaxerxes> a bit like vi
[14:59:14] <artaxerxes> wjp: I am registered now.
[14:59:50] <wjp> k, should work now :-)
[14:59:55] <wjp> do you have auto-rejoin on? ;-)
[15:00:01] <artaxerxes> oups
[15:00:21] * wjp hovers his mouse over the kick button ;-)
[15:00:44] * artaxerxes grins
[15:01:06] <wjp> "/msg chanserv op #exult" should do the trick, btw
[15:02:34] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to artaxerxes
[15:03:20] <Nadir> ohno
[15:03:23] <Nadir> :)
[15:03:42] <wjp> even more ops, yay :-)
[15:03:46] <artaxerxes> thx for the welcome, Nadir! :)
[15:04:08] <artaxerxes> wjp: where is that auto-rejoin option?
[15:04:19] <wjp> xchat?
[15:04:31] <artaxerxes> ksirc
[15:04:37] <wjp> hm, not a clue, then
[15:04:48] <artaxerxes> actually... it is on
[15:05:06] <artaxerxes> under options->preferences
[15:05:12] * wjp tries
[15:05:14] <-- artaxerxes was kicked from #exult by wjp (wjp)
[15:05:15] --> artaxerxes has joined #exult
[15:05:15] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to artaxerxes
[15:05:19] <wjp> yup, it's on :-)
[15:05:26] <Nadir> exultbot needs ops
[15:05:31] <Nadir> exultbot: want ops ?
[15:05:32] <artaxerxes> cool
[15:05:38] <Nadir> ?ops
[15:05:42] <exultbot> nah, not really :-)
[15:05:56] <artaxerxes> could be dangerous
[15:05:56] * exultbot wouldn't be able to resist the temptation :-)
[15:06:09] <Nadir> ?seen jsf
[15:06:09] <exultbot> I haven't seen jsf lately
[15:06:13] <Nadir> ?seen freedman
[15:06:13] <exultbot> freedman left IRC around Tue Jun 25 19:28:59 2002 (GMT) ("Leaving")
[15:06:14] <wjp> ?seen freedman
[15:06:14] <exultbot> freedman left IRC around Tue Jun 25 19:28:59 2002 (GMT) ("Leaving")
[15:06:24] <wjp> ages ago
[15:06:34] <Nadir> well, at least it's THIS year
[15:06:50] <wjp> lol
[15:06:51] <wjp> yes :-)
[15:07:03] <artaxerxes> that's over a month ago! I wonder how come his nick has not been stolen
[15:07:24] <Nadir> ?seen dancer
[15:07:24] <exultbot> I haven't seen dancer lately
[15:07:27] <Nadir> :)
[15:07:30] <Nadir> neither have I
[15:12:44] --- Fingolfin|afk is now known as Fingolfin
[15:12:46] <Fingolfin> re
[15:12:52] <artaxerxes> hi
[15:12:55] <wjp> wb
[15:13:00] <Nadir> ?seen Fingolfin
[15:13:00] <exultbot> fingolfin is right here!
[15:13:02] <Nadir> good
[15:13:08] <wjp> ?seen wjp
[15:13:08] <exultbot> That's you!
[15:13:10] <wjp> ?seen exultbot
[15:13:10] <exultbot> That's me!
[15:13:13] <Fingolfin> exultbot: that's clever
[15:13:21] <artaxerxes> I've emailed Alex.. He's gonna clean up his version of scummvm and send the patch to you
[15:13:24] * exultbot is a bright bot :-)
[15:13:24] <Nadir> where's that buiscuit
[15:13:44] <Nadir> ?what is the answer ?
[15:14:03] * exultbot wipes crumbs from mouth... dunno.. :-)
[15:15:20] <Nadir> exultbot: 42
[15:15:38] <Fingolfin> artaxerxes: cool. he should just make sure to do that against CVS =)
[15:15:40] <exultbot> Forty-Two, actually ;-)
[15:15:47] <Nadir> :)
[15:15:50] <Nadir> and the question ?
[15:16:14] <exultbot> working on that one ;-)
[15:16:41] <exultbot> estimated time to answer: 9.564.134 years, 203 days, 2 hours, 5 minutes
[15:17:37] <Nadir> have you asked deep thought ?
[15:18:10] <wjp> ugh, my fingers are tired from all this typing.. I should simplify exultbot's interface :-)
[15:18:59] <Nadir> Oh freddled gruntbuggly thy micturations are to me
[15:18:59] <Nadir> As plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee.
[15:18:59] <Nadir> Groop I implore thee my foonting turlingdromes
[15:18:59] <Nadir> And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles,
[15:18:59] <Nadir> Or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon,
[15:19:00] <Nadir> see if I dont!
[15:19:16] <wjp> umm... yes, of course :-)
[15:19:37] <Nadir> you're supposed to scream in pain
[15:19:44] <artaxerxes> as hard to read as it is to type I bet! :)
[15:20:34] <wjp> nah, it isn't as painful when you read it :-)
[15:21:04] <Nadir> http://www.douglasadams.com/creations/infocomjava.html
[15:21:12] <Nadir> cool a z interpreter as a java applet
[15:21:18] <wjp> but I thought that some of the metaphysical imagery was really particularly effective
[15:21:50] <wjp> oh, and er, interesting rhythmic devices too
[15:22:08] <wjp> which seemed to counterpoint the.. er... vogonity of the poet's compassionate soul,
[15:22:32] <wjp> which contrives through the medium of the verse structure to sublimate this, transcend that,
[15:22:44] <wjp> and come to terms with the fundamental dichotomies of the other,
[15:23:02] <Nadir> http://k76.ryd.student.liu.se/~lindahl/other/guide/hg-1-07.html
[15:23:05] <wjp> and one is left with a profound and vivid insight into... into... whatever the poem was about!
[15:23:12] <wjp> *phew*.. now my fingers are really tired
[15:23:52] <artaxerxes> Colourless: I've come to identify 7 really useful key shortcuts that could go in the default toolbar: B, C, K, P, S, T, W (not in this order)
[15:24:47] <wjp> hm, spellbook, combat, keyring, picklock, save, target, watch
[15:24:48] <Nadir> I was going to say I and Z but with the status bar you don't need them
[15:24:51] <artaxerxes> Also, K and alt-K should be merged I think
[15:25:00] <artaxerxes> exactly
[15:25:24] <wjp> hm, merging them will require some ugly hacks
[15:25:35] <wjp> even uglier than the current alt-k hack, I mean :-)
[15:26:31] <artaxerxes> if key_pressed = K then if has_keyring then use keyring else try_keys endif endif
[15:27:29] <wjp> well, wouldn't you want to try any keys not on the keyring too?
[15:28:00] <artaxerxes> why should keys not be on the keyring if you have the keyring with you ?
[15:28:46] <artaxerxes> (which connects to a question from the forum: how come the keys don't get automatically added to the keyring)
[15:29:00] <artaxerxes> (I know one exception)
[15:30:11] <wjp> hm, keys were adding themselves to the keyring even when they shouldn't be when I was playing SI
[15:30:24] <wjp> (keys of fire/ice got added too; plot stopper)
[15:30:29] <artaxerxes> ouch
[15:30:35] <wjp> well, not really a plot stopper, but annoying
[15:32:04] <artaxerxes> I've seen in usecode the phrase "Strange, this key refuses to go in the keyring"
[15:32:58] <artaxerxes> maybe, a little hack of keyring, so that all keys get added to it automatically, expect those whose quality number is (list of quality numbers)
[15:34:19] <wjp> hm, I was expecting Jeff did that already, actually
[15:34:24] <wjp> I'll have to check
[15:40:40] <wjp> hm, it should add all keys except keys with frame 21-23
[15:43:31] <artaxerxes> then all is good!
[15:44:13] <artaxerxes> do you know also if all the keys get automatically transfered in the kr as soon as you obtain it in SI ?
[15:58:32] * Nadir is off
[15:58:34] <Nadir> bye
[15:58:38] <-- Nadir has left IRC ("Uscita dal client")
[16:00:56] <Colourless> wow, my low latency changes really do work extermely well :-)
[16:01:29] <artaxerxes> good for you! :) what are they used for ?
[16:02:10] <Colourless> they are being used in the adlib opl2 midi device that i'm writing for exult
[16:02:46] <Colourless> previously i was getting latencies anywhere from 250 ms to about 1000 ms. now the latency shouldn't be higher than 250 ms, ever
[16:02:58] <artaxerxes> super
[16:03:33] <Colourless> it should now average at about 125 ms latency, which is pretty good :-)
[17:07:11] <artaxerxes> just noticed something: the gimp plugin does not give ability to choose the palette when you want to write a shp
[17:07:50] <wjp> a .shp doesn't contain a palette
[17:08:04] <artaxerxes> but you need to index it with a palette
[17:08:25] <wjp> well, yes, but that's the gimp's job
[17:10:08] <artaxerxes> so, when you want to write a shp, you need to index it using a custom palette taken from a file...
[17:10:20] <wjp> yeah
[17:10:24] <artaxerxes> a the gimp does not have the option to load a file at this point
[17:10:43] <wjp> hm, you should be able to import a palette, right?
[17:11:09] <artaxerxes> I don't know
[17:11:48] <wjp> I started from existing shapes for the couple of shapes I did, so the right palette was already in place
[17:20:11] <artaxerxes> but not when you create a new file.
[17:21:08] <wjp> yeah, the gimp plugin doesn't have anything to do with creating a file
[17:21:39] <wjp> but I really don't want to make the gimp plugin do colour reduction
[17:24:49] <artaxerxes> can I send you a pix by email ?
[17:24:59] <wjp> sure
[17:25:51] <artaxerxes> done
[17:26:43] <wjp> looks good
[17:27:01] <artaxerxes> Just concept art
[17:27:40] <wjp> this doesn't leave any room for any toolbar borders, though, but I don't know what exactly you're planning
[17:28:50] <artaxerxes> The idea is having the toolbar right at the bottom of the screen (or the top as a matter of fact). The button shape is generic and the items are extracted from static/ according to a txt file similar to keybinding.txt
[17:29:05] <artaxerxes> and then placed on top of the button
[17:29:44] <wjp> what about custom buttons?
[17:29:57] <artaxerxes> like ?
[17:30:11] <wjp> dunno... but if it's customizable.. :-)
[17:30:35] <wjp> I'd add an option to use buttons from exult.flx
[17:30:52] <artaxerxes> that's the point exactly! I would not use the file I've send you. I'd use the one without anything in the middle and automatically loads the thing in the middle based on the text file
[17:31:00] <wjp> yeah, I understand
[17:31:29] <wjp> but why limit the object in the middle to shapes from the original data files?
[17:31:34] <artaxerxes> a few exceptions would be the ones I am going to finish and send you to see
[17:31:40] <artaxerxes> true
[17:31:47] <artaxerxes> anything would do
[17:32:45] <wjp> hm, incidentally, this keyring icon requires SI, so if you want to use it in BG, it'll need custom art
[17:33:32] <wjp> (or just put the keyring shape into exult.flx)
[17:33:43] <artaxerxes> since there is no kr in BG, I'd use a regular key shape
[17:34:28] <wjp> hm, wouldn't it be confusing to use different icons in BG and SI?
[17:34:40] <Colourless> uh, what's this?
[17:35:34] <artaxerxes> actually, in the back of my head, I'd see a regular key icon until you obtain the kr. Then it becomes the kr icon.... (but well, we're not there yet!)
[17:35:58] <Colourless> no key icon in si.
[17:36:04] <Colourless> makes the keyring pointless
[17:50:39] <artaxerxes> Colourless: can I email you sth ?
[17:51:38] <Colourless> of course
[17:51:39] <artaxerxes> is the @merlin address the best to send it to?
[17:51:47] <Colourless> yep
[17:53:15] <artaxerxes> done
[17:53:23] <artaxerxes> (sent a copy to wjp)
[17:53:32] <artaxerxes> (I've sent a copy to wjp)
[17:54:13] <Colourless> that is... um, not how i'd do it
[17:55:37] <Colourless> i was just going to limit the buttons to 22x22 pixels. all of the art would be custom
[17:57:14] <artaxerxes> why so small ?
[17:57:29] <Colourless> you you can have more buttons
[17:59:19] <Colourless> your buttons are 'huge' but yet the picture in them is never larger that 16x16 (except for combat)
[17:59:29] <Colourless> s/that/than/
[18:00:02] <Colourless> they would easily fit in a 22x22 button (not that they are 22x22 because of a 2 pixel border around a 16x16 icon)
[18:00:08] <Colourless> s/not/note/
[18:00:24] <artaxerxes> but the screen on a PDA is rather small.You don't want to tap "combat" by mistake, especially if you're beside wisps.. :)
[18:02:04] <Colourless> yeah, i know the screens are small
[18:06:54] <artaxerxes> could you send me some concept art of what you plan to do?
[18:07:09] <Colourless> yeah, just working on some now
[18:07:34] <artaxerxes> nice
[18:08:22] <Colourless> interesting... um... language in that screenshot :-)
[18:08:30] <artaxerxes> :)
[18:08:56] <artaxerxes> been working on 2 projects remember? ;-) Just mixing... :)
[18:30:36] --> matt__ has joined #exult
[18:30:38] --- matt__ is now known as matto|wookin
[18:30:43] <wjp> hi
[18:30:46] <matto|wookin> wjp!!!
[18:30:53] <wjp> matto!!!!
[18:31:00] <matto|wookin> greetings from USA :)
[18:31:06] <wjp> :-)
[18:31:12] <matto|wookin> I just installed gnome2
[18:31:12] <artaxerxes> greetings from Canada :)
[18:31:13] <Colourless> hi :-)
[18:31:17] <matto|wookin> I think I like it :)
[18:31:30] <wjp> you think? or you do? :-)
[18:31:36] * wjp has yet to get it
[18:31:37] <matto|wookin> I mean... aside from the huge hassle to get it installed (due to its experimental nature) I really am liking it
[18:31:56] <matto|wookin> cool anti aliased fonts, nice default themes
[18:33:23] <artaxerxes> for configure,in, we could try having a test: if test $host != $build; then we are cross-compiling.
[18:33:58] <artaxerxes> and thus we need a set of tools for cross-compiling and a set for compiling locally used tools (like expack)
[18:34:01] <wjp> no need, configure already has an internal variable for that
[18:34:34] <matto|wookin> http://www.rulecity.com/~matt/gnome2.jpg
[18:34:38] <artaxerxes> is there a way to use that test to force expack to be compile on the "build" platform instead of "host" platform ?
[18:34:40] <matto|wookin> ^ - my gnome2 desktop (~200k)
[18:35:12] <wjp> hm, looks interesting
[18:35:24] <wjp> I'm hoping the effects on the xchat buttons are jpg artifacts? :-)
[18:35:45] <matto|wookin> yeah :)
[18:35:54] <matto|wookin> hehe those _are_ pretty bad, aren't they :)
[18:36:15] <artaxerxes> it's a huge desktop! :)
[18:36:23] <matto|wookin> 1024x768 I believe
[18:36:27] <wjp> tiny :-)
[18:36:51] <wjp> hm, two toolbars? top and bottom?
[18:37:22] * Colourless looks closely and notes what appears to be few antialiased fonts :-)
[18:38:59] <Colourless> only title bars, and the gnome toolbars at the top and bottom of the screen. everything is not aa'd
[18:39:01] <wjp> the gnome toolbars are AA; the other programs are probably still gtk < 2.0
[18:40:20] <Colourless> you know, us windows people have had aa'd fonts since windows 95... that's 7 years ago :-)
[18:40:46] <wjp> us linux people would prefer to use the required CPU for other things ;-)
[18:41:19] <Colourless> but we can turn it off and on, and it works in all programs :-)
[18:41:44] <Colourless> oh well, that's what you get with a single api for the entire os
[19:01:55] <artaxerxes> wjp: regarding cross-compiling, info autoconf talks about having a 'make' that support VPATH... any clues about what it means ?
[19:02:30] <artaxerxes> it's about building objects for different arch at the same time
[19:02:47] <wjp> yeah
[19:02:56] <wjp> just run configure from a different directory than the source dir
[19:25:27] <matto|wookin> Colourless: the non-anti-aliased programs use the old GTK
[19:25:49] <matto|wookin> once those apps get ported to gtk 2.0, they will be AA'd automatically
[19:26:28] <matto|wookin> re: windows AA ... I took a screenshot in Internet Explorer a few days ago and zoomed in and sure enough, the font was not anti aliased... so I have them disabled or something?
[19:27:29] <matto|wookin> how does one enable/disable them?
[19:27:37] <Colourless> display settings
[19:27:39] <wjp> 'smooth fonts' in display options
[19:27:41] <wjp> IIRC
[19:27:47] <matto|wookin> oh I see
[19:27:58] <matto|wookin> are they enabled by default?
[19:28:11] <Colourless> not afaik
[19:28:15] <matto|wookin> hmm ...
[19:31:46] <Colourless> also, windows wont aa a font if it's too small
[19:31:57] <matto|wookin> ahh ...
[19:33:51] <matto|wookin> hey, there is a new version of x-chat based on gtk2 that uses anti-aliased fonts :)
[19:34:37] <wjp> I assume you can have gtk2 installed next to 1.4, right?
[19:34:44] <artaxerxes> back to real work.....
[19:34:52] <wjp> bye
[19:34:53] <artaxerxes> see ya later, guys
[19:35:34] <artaxerxes> Colourless: i'm gonna do some prep work on the tooolbar. I'll let you know what's up
[19:36:07] <artaxerxes> and please send me some concept art of your toolbar when you have a chance! thx
[19:36:26] <Colourless> will do
[19:36:31] --- artaxerxes is now known as artaxerxes|afk
[19:36:31] <matto|wookin> wjp: yep
[19:37:20] <wjp> *sigh*... apt-get is starting to sound very appealing right about now :-)
[19:37:28] <matto|wookin> >:)
[19:48:01] <matto|wookin> brb, trying out the new xchat
[19:48:04] <-- matto|wookin has left IRC ("Client Exiting")
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[19:52:46] <matto|wookin> ahhh ... :)
[19:52:48] <matto|wookin> it worked
[19:52:50] <matto|wookin> anti-aliased x-chat
[19:52:56] <matto|wookin> looks kind of strange ... hehe
[19:53:15] * wjp is just compiling xchat-1.9.2 :-)
[19:53:32] <matto|wookin> yeah I had to compile it too
[19:53:41] <wjp> hm, compile errors
[19:53:44] <matto|wookin> I had to install "libperl-dev"
[19:53:55] <matto|wookin> the configure script didn't warn me about that one .. it caught everything else
[19:54:27] <wjp> parse errors in ctype.h??
[19:54:39] <matto|wookin> I didn't get that error
[19:54:50] <matto|wookin> it compiled for me without incident
[19:55:14] <wjp> AA fonts look.. interesting :-)
[19:55:51] <wjp> are you using Xft?
[19:55:57] <matto|wookin> yeah
[19:56:20] <matto|wookin> did you get it working?
[19:56:32] <wjp> no, different program
[19:57:36] <wjp> hmm... #define tolower(c) (tolowertab[(unsigned char)(c)])
[19:57:40] <matto|wookin> http://www.xmission.com/~redflame/xchat.jpg
[19:57:41] <wjp> followed by a
[19:57:44] <wjp> extern int tolower (int __c) __THROW;
[19:57:55] <matto|wookin> there's how it looks for me right now
[19:57:58] <wjp> result: kaboom :-)
[19:58:23] <matto|wookin> I seem to be switched to some "fancy" font instead of the monospaced one I used to be using
[19:58:40] <wjp> ack, that looks really weird
[19:59:07] <matto|wookin> I want my old font back :(
[19:59:26] <wjp> -misc-fixed-bold-r-normal-*-*-100-*-*-c-*-iso8859-1 <-- my current font
[20:00:06] * wjp gets rid of the offending 'tolower' definition in src/common/util.h
[20:00:18] <matto|wookin> hehe
[20:01:35] <wjp> although it's really kind of necessary I guess, since IRC uses a somewhat different tolower() than normal locales
[20:03:14] <matto|wookin> looks like this new xchat won't support those "old" fonts anymore
[20:03:34] * wjp makes a backup of his old .xchat dir
[20:03:38] <matto|wookin> hehehe
[20:03:49] --> wjp_ has joined #exult
[20:03:56] * wjp pokes wjp_
[20:04:32] <matto|wookin> ooooh 1.9.2 :)
[20:04:43] <wjp_> hehe :-)
[20:04:46] <wjp_> yup :-)
[20:04:52] <wjp_> working at least a bit I guess :-)
[20:04:57] <matto|wookin> hey you got a faster machine :)
[20:05:24] <wjp> uh, no I don't
[20:05:29] <wjp> -matto|wookin- VERSION xchat 1.9.2 Linux 2.4.18-bf2.4 [i686/1795MHz]
[20:05:31] <wjp> -wjp_- VERSION xchat 1.9.2 Linux 2.4.18-3 [i686/1545MHz]
[20:05:50] <matto|wookin> err.. I meant since I last queried you
[20:05:59] <wjp> oh, that was quite a while back then :-)
[20:06:03] <matto|wookin> :)
[20:06:09] <matto|wookin> well you know how I come and go in spurts.. hehe
[20:06:21] <matto|wookin> am I on a 1.8 ghz? hehe .. I guess I am
[20:06:34] <matto|wookin> it certainly doesn't feel fast!! maybe it's because of my 128 megs of RAM :(
[20:06:45] <wjp_> a 1.8Ghz with 128Mb RAM?
[20:06:47] <wjp_> wow :-)
[20:07:03] <wjp_> that's a rare sight :-)
[20:07:24] <matto|wookin> yeah... some "deal" that Dell put together that my company leaped upon :)
[20:08:25] <matto|wookin> what in the ... it says I am using kernel 2.4.18-bf2.4? hehe .. *grumble*
[20:08:47] <wjp_> PING LAG2900234917
[20:09:02] <wjp> uh?
[20:09:14] <wjp> why did it say that?
[20:09:22] <matto|wookin> I don't know
[20:09:28] <wjp> wjp_'s window doesn't even show it
[20:09:38] <matto|wookin> hmm
[20:09:49] <wjp> I guess that's why they call it an unstable branch :-)
[20:09:52] * matto|wookin wonders if he should start edging away from this unreleased version
[20:10:57] <matto|wookin> my monitor at home is so blurry that all my stuff looks anti-aliased even though it isn't
[20:11:00] <matto|wookin> so I am set there ...
[20:11:16] <wjp> hm, the default font is a lot larger...
[20:11:26] <matto|wookin> yeah I went and changed it
[20:11:31] <matto|wookin> I am using "monospace" at 11 point
[20:11:41] <wjp_> luxi mono 11 here, atm
[20:11:43] <matto|wookin> there is nothing "mono" about the spacing though
[20:12:15] <wjp> hm, those two look suspiciously identical
[20:12:35] <Colourless> wjp: if you wanted to see, here is my toolbar concept: http://www.users.on.net/triforce/toolbar_normal.png http://www.users.on.net/triforce/toolbar_combat.png http://www.users.on.net/triforce/toolbar_gump.png
[20:12:35] <wjp> except that Luxi Mono's italic is called 'oblique'
[20:13:02] <matto|wookin> hmm ...
[20:13:11] <wjp> some decorations would look nice :-)
[20:13:33] <wjp> ooooh, it has options to open links in new tabs/existing tabs in galeonn
[20:13:35] <wjp> s/nn/n/
[20:16:15] <Colourless> easy way to customs toolbar = drag items from inventory onto it perhaps? sort of like u9
[20:16:51] <wjp> would be very nice, yes
[20:17:48] <Colourless> sounds a lot like the 'toolbelt' that we have discussed on a number of occasions in the distant past :-)
[20:18:11] <wjp> yup :-)
[20:18:32] <Colourless> i've also got 12 buttons on my toolbar.... there are 12 F keys :-)
[20:18:33] <wjp_> hm, I don't really like this font
[20:18:55] <wjp> hm, aren't there 13?
[20:18:57] * wjp counts again
[20:19:10] <Colourless> the combat button is 'different'
[20:19:20] <wjp> yeah, I guess :-)
[20:24:00] <-- wjp_ has left IRC ("I like core dumps")
[20:24:10] <matto|wookin> ... bye xchat 1.9.2
[20:24:11] <wjp> what kind of a default quit message is that? :-)
[20:24:26] <matto|wookin> an applicable one apparently
[20:48:16] <artaxerxes|afk> now how do you drop a "target mode" in the toolbelt?
[20:49:13] <artaxerxes|afk> I'd say you have 8 buttons you can use... :)
[20:53:19] <Colourless> artaxerxes|afk: yeah I know about that issue. i wasn't going to allow the first 4 to be changed on an embedded device :-)
[21:02:35] <artaxerxes|afk> just wondering: how would you go about implementing this toolbelt in exult? where would you start? I peeked at exult.cc but it might not be the best place to start..
[21:02:57] <Colourless> as a gump
[21:07:01] <wjp> roughly the same as the status bars, probably
[21:07:16] <Colourless> yep
[21:07:19] <artaxerxes|afk> well, it changes the size of the requested window though
[21:07:32] <Colourless> of course there is the problem artaxerxes|afk just mentioned too
[21:07:33] <artaxerxes|afk> while status bar don't
[21:07:41] <Colourless> i've no idea how to fix that problem at the moment
[21:07:58] <artaxerxes|afk> that's what I've been poking at in exult.cc
[21:08:04] <wjp> hm, maybe you should be able to redefine the center of the screen?
[21:08:08] <artaxerxes|afk> s/poking/peeking
[21:08:08] <Colourless> basically what needs to be done, is for the centered view to be moved up 20 pixels
[21:08:14] <wjp> would be very messy & involving, though
[21:08:17] <Colourless> you won't find what you want in exult.cc
[21:08:28] <Colourless> it would be in gamewin.cc
[21:08:32] <artaxerxes|afk> well, that's where the request window size is
[21:08:39] <artaxerxes|afk> in exult.cc
[21:08:46] <wjp> and a _lot_ of other files assume the center is (width/2, height/2)
[21:09:09] <wjp> it might be easier to have a bigger buffer than gamewin thinks
[21:09:29] <Colourless> wjp: we would probably have to create a 'centre' offset which we add to all the width/2 and height/2.
[21:09:54] <wjp> would be very hard to catch all instances
[21:09:57] <Colourless> there might be unforseen problems though
[21:11:12] <Colourless> there already is a way of shifting the view
[21:11:25] <artaxerxes|afk> where do those other files get the value for width and height ?
[21:11:31] <Colourless> however, if you move, it will attempt to recenter back on the avatar
[21:12:13] * Colourless has a look at the code
[21:15:09] <artaxerxes|afk> also, we might simply rename the main game window (the one called: THE main window) and in fact create a more main window on which the old main window gets painted!
[21:15:17] * artaxerxes|afk wonders if he makes sense
[21:15:31] * artaxerxes|afk might need to rephrase
[21:15:40] <Colourless> no, i don't like that idea
[21:15:46] <Colourless> sounds too much like a 'hack'
[21:16:05] <artaxerxes|afk> but hacks ARE good.. ;-)
[21:16:30] <artaxerxes|afk> that's what 1.1.0cvs is for :)
[21:16:54] <Colourless> just because it's called unstable, doesn't mean you 'have' to write bad code :-)
[21:17:07] <artaxerxes|afk> darn! ;)
[21:18:00] <Colourless> idea: if we are in "don't move" mode, don't show the tool bar, similar to how the stats are hidden
[21:19:20] <artaxerxes|afk> or dclick on a little icon beside the avatar stats to bring up the toolbelt gump in the main window
[21:20:47] <artaxerxes|afk> which you can close like any other gump
[21:20:56] <artaxerxes|afk> (actually, dtap)
[21:21:48] <artaxerxes|afk> (or single tap as a matter of fact, easier to play)
[21:23:39] <Colourless> it looks like changing scroll_bounds will change where the screen is centered
[21:26:39] <Colourless> ok, it looks like it will be pretty easy to just offset the centering on the avatar
[21:29:48] <Colourless> in Game_window::set_scrolls(int,int) subtracting from the get_height() will shift the screen up
[21:37:04] <Colourless> yes, doing that works well
[21:37:34] <artaxerxes|afk> good
[21:38:26] <Colourless> teleporting though causes the avatar to be recentered back at the center of the actual screen
[21:39:09] <Colourless> the stats also need to be offset, but that can be fairly easily changed
[21:40:39] <artaxerxes|afk> how about having a new icon in the status bar. If you tap on it, the tbelt gump pops, you select your command, and depending on the command, the tbelt leaves or stays and you select the target if needed. Another tap on this icon will remove the tbelt if it's still up
[21:40:58] <artaxerxes|afk> should be fairly easy to do
[21:41:12] <Colourless> yeah, pretty much
[21:41:22] <artaxerxes|afk> and bring much less overhead in the code... much cleaner too
[21:41:44] <artaxerxes|afk> can I try it?
[21:42:06] <Colourless> sure, do whatever you want
[21:42:16] <Colourless> though I really doubt it will be less overhead :-)
[21:42:47] <artaxerxes|afk> I don't need to touch any of the already coded part (except the status bar, that is)
[21:44:32] <artaxerxes|afk> I'm gonna work on that... but now is week-end time!
[21:44:41] <artaxerxes|afk> have a good weekend guys.
[21:44:50] <Colourless> cya
[21:44:58] <artaxerxes|afk> bye
[21:45:07] <-- artaxerxes|afk has left IRC ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.1")
[21:52:27] <Colourless> recentering teleports just requires modifying Game_window::set_scrolls(Tile_coord) with the appropriate offset
[21:55:14] <wjp> I would personally prefer a get_centerX(), get_centerY()
[21:55:24] <wjp> (instead of adding offsets to all the widths and heights)
[22:28:36] <Fingolfin> hm
[22:28:41] * Fingolfin looks at resample in Audio.cc
[22:28:53] <Fingolfin> I wonder if I could just use my cubic interpolation code from ScummVM here, too
[22:29:22] * Colourless notes a comment saying something like "I don't know what i'm doing here" in resample()
[22:29:26] <Fingolfin> hehe
[22:29:39] <Fingolfin> well I did know what I was doing in my code, plus it's fixed point based, not using floats :-)
[22:29:55] <Colourless> yeah!
[22:30:03] <Colourless> :-)
[22:31:52] <Fingolfin> however, my resampler currently only outputs 16 bit sound data. I guess I could scale that down again to get 8 bit data, hm
[22:32:17] <Colourless> i think we output 16 bit
[22:32:41] <Colourless> if we don't... we should be
[22:33:11] * Colourless see's
[22:33:11] <Colourless> // And convert to 16 bit stereo
[22:33:19] <Colourless> in a different part of the code
[22:33:26] <Fingolfin> well
[22:33:27] <Colourless> just look for where resample() is actually called
[22:33:32] <Fingolfin> yeah I see it now
[22:33:42] <Fingolfin> so what I would do
[22:34:01] <Fingolfin> instead of calling resample, then converting to 16 bit stereo, I would use my code which does that in one step anyway
[22:34:37] <Colourless> if you modify it to produce stereo samples, that would be neat too :-)
[22:34:43] <Fingolfin> but first, I need to compile a current CVS :-)
[22:35:04] <matto|wookin> the latest CVS doesn't even compile on MAc anymore.. that's how long it's been since fingolfin has worked on the source
[22:35:13] <Fingolfin> well, my interpolator works for 8/16 signed/unsigned mono/stereo
[22:35:22] <Fingolfin> I haven#t worked on the source for ages, true
[22:35:24] <matto|wookin> hehe j/k
[22:35:30] <Fingolfin> matto|wookin: how do you know it doesn't compile on mac?
[22:35:35] <Colourless> we want stereo output, but we input mono :-)
[22:35:38] <matto|wookin> just joking
[22:35:53] <matto|wookin> I don't know whether it does or not
[22:36:21] <matto|wookin> I assumed that you probably hadn't worked on the source in a while based on your comment about compiling a current CVS ... and I know that if other people have been working on the CVS lately, that it might have broken Mac support
[22:36:33] <matto|wookin> when people work on my daphne project, they often break linux support if I am not there to keep them in line!!
[22:36:58] <wjp> *sigh*... IMO 2002 is in progress at the moment (international math olympiad), but their official site doesn't have a shred of info that has been updated the last week
[22:38:50] <Fingolfin> matto|wookin: I will find out now :-)
[22:44:08] <wjp> time to go
[22:44:08] <wjp> g'night
[22:44:16] <Colourless> cya
[22:44:18] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")
[22:48:57] --> SB-X has joined #exult
[22:49:07] <SB-X> hi
[22:50:52] <matto|wookin> hi
[22:51:35] <SB-X> :-)
[22:51:40] <SB-X> actually im going to watch tv...
[22:51:41] <SB-X> bbl
[22:51:42] <-- SB-X has left IRC (Client Quit)
[22:51:49] <Fingolfin> that was a brief stay :-)
[22:57:19] <matto|wookin> hehe
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[23:36:46] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("time for me to go")