#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 26 Jul 2003 (GMT)

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[00:34:12] <servus> Darke has been asleep for how many days now? We should wake him up before the 50 day mark.
[00:34:22] <servus> 50 year mark.*
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[04:11:41] <Cahaan> hey
[04:11:54] <Cahaan> did Ultima7 use prerendered paths for the NPCs in town ?
[05:25:59] <servus> Not paths, but locations to be at, at certain times, if I'm not mistaken.
[05:26:38] <Cahaan> and how does the NPC go to that location ? with a pathfinding algorithm or something more "pre-calculated" ?
[05:27:11] <servus> I believe it's pathfinding if you try to watch them move, otherwise they just teleport.
[05:28:57] <Cahaan> I would like to be sure, are you a member of Exult team btw? (I'm trying to guess the best way to implement such behaviours into my game)
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[06:22:58] <servus> . o O ( Use Ultima7 as a basis for modern programming practices? )
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[11:07:32] <x-argent> hi !
[11:07:42] <servus> Bye !
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[11:07:49] <x-argent> ^^
[11:08:11] <x-argent> is there anybody here ?
[11:18:50] <SB-X> yes
[11:22:04] <x-argent> cool
[11:22:15] <x-argent> i'm a french ultima fan
[11:23:28] <x-argent> i wanted to know what is the difference between exult and the original game ?(except the excellent fact it runs on win 2000/xp)
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[11:25:15] <x-argent> hi
[11:25:33] <wjp> hi
[11:25:42] <x-argent> i'm a french ultima fan
[11:25:42] <x-argent> [13:28] > i wanted to know what is the difference between exult and the original game ?(except the excellent fact it runs on win 2000/xp)
[11:25:54] <wjp> exult's a complete rewrite
[11:26:27] <x-argent> ok
[11:26:45] <x-argent> you changed some parts of the story ?
[11:26:59] <wjp> no, we use the data files and scripts from the original
[11:27:18] <x-argent> ok
[11:28:09] <x-argent> so the change is that now it works on windows ?
[11:28:29] <wjp> and linux, and macosx, and...
[11:28:47] <wjp> and, as I mentioned, it's a full engine rewrite, so some things will be different
[11:28:51] <x-argent> waoooh what an impressive work^^
[11:29:20] <x-argent> which thing will be different and is it totally finished ?
[11:30:41] <wjp> there's a list in the FAQ
[11:30:50] <x-argent> ok excuse me
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[16:28:24] <Colourless> hi
[16:28:38] <wjp> hi
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[17:18:03] <resle> good morning in case it's morning, evening... in case it's evening
[17:18:35] <wjp> evening :-)
[17:19:57] <resle> I was just wondering since living in Italy I am usually out of the most common "internet time" ;)
[17:20:19] <wjp> mostly europeans and australians here, usally
[17:20:42] <wjp> s/usally/usually/
[17:20:52] <wjp> Colourless: btw, cvs has been tagged for 1.1Beta1
[17:21:06] <wjp> .tar.gz has been uploaded to SF
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[17:29:21] <resle> wjp, is there any plan to change the chunk structure to something totally dynamic?
[17:30:13] <Colourless> what do you mean dynamic
[17:30:36] <resle> Hm, well now you have... (i don't remember exactly) 1024 chunks right?
[17:31:38] <resle> CHange the contents of certain chunk, and the changes are reflected wherever that chunk has been used
[17:31:50] * wjp nods
[17:32:01] <Colourless> chunks aren't likely to be changed
[17:32:02] <wjp> if you want to change only a single occurence you'll have to copy it first
[17:32:26] <resle> Hm, exactly what I mean. But with nowaday's hardware it shouldn't be a great drawback, having all unique chunks
[17:33:35] <Colourless> how much space do you want used to store the map?
[17:33:53] <wjp> full map if not using chunks would be over 400Mb
[17:33:57] <wjp> and that's without any objects
[17:34:51] <wjp> hm, no...
[17:34:59] <Colourless> i calc about 80 mb here
[17:35:05] <wjp> sounds better, yes
[17:35:06] <Colourless> 3072x3072
[17:35:33] <resle> 80 mb would be acceptable :) 3072x3072 pixels... or 3072x3072 tiles?
[17:35:40] <wjp> tiles
[17:35:49] <wjp> 24K*24K pixels
[17:35:50] <resle> 24,000 pixels so
[17:35:52] <resle> ok
[17:35:54] <Colourless> 80 mb is not accetable at all
[17:36:07] <Colourless> that is 'excessive'
[17:36:28] <Colourless> if you want to customize the chunk, just add an item to the world
[17:36:45] <resle> 80 mb kept in memory is definitely not acceptable
[17:36:49] <resle> 80 mb on disk is
[17:37:17] <Colourless> 80 mb on disk still isn't, because there is a better way... using chunks
[17:37:34] <Colourless> you can very little flexibilty making everything individual items
[17:37:39] <Colourless> s/can/gain/
[17:38:03] <resle> I don't think it's a better way: it's like accepting a limit (and a smart way to deal with it) that was set ... because we were in the 386 era
[17:38:19] <wjp> if the number of available chunks is high enough there's enough room to customize 'special' areas
[17:38:46] <wjp> do you really want to design a full world from scratch without re-using elements?
[17:38:59] <resle> hmm.....
[17:39:02] <resle> ...yes
[17:39:05] <wjp> :-)
[17:39:17] <Colourless> you can still do it using the current method
[17:39:29] <Colourless> just, seriously, most would call you foolish for trying
[17:39:38] <resle> They already do
[17:40:08] <resle> But well, it's just a philosophic divergence
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[17:42:02] <wjp> bbl, dinner
[17:42:15] <resle> bye
[17:42:49] <resle> Colourless: what happens when I hackmove a wall in a chunk? I am actually changing the content of the chunk while ingame... so is a new chunk automatically created to replace the one I am modifying?
[17:44:54] <Colourless> you are temporarily modifying that specific instances of the used chunk
[17:45:27] <resle> Well, on the coder's side then the "full dynamic" solutions is easier to manage ;)
[17:45:47] <resle> solutio*n
[17:46:03] <Colourless> yes and no. if you data set become too large, it becomes difficult to manage
[17:46:37] <Colourless> items in u7 come for 3 different places. Chunks, Fixed and Nonfixed
[17:46:57] <resle> Hm, mine for example is just a, - well let's say a list of lists - and it's extremely easy to work with. Of course it has it's performance and memory usage drawbacks.
[17:47:42] <resle> What's exactly the difference between fixed and nonfixed? (tell me if/when I am bothering you...)
[17:47:58] <Colourless> there isn't much difference actually
[17:48:13] <Colourless> nonfixed will get saved to the savegame, fixed will not
[17:49:13] <resle> Hm - then I suppose you decided to treat some fixed as nonfixed? Because there are things that in the original UVII weren't saved when I modified them.
[17:50:07] <Colourless> it shouldn't be any different
[17:50:17] <Colourless> unless you were using exult studio, and used it's map save command
[17:50:29] <resle> Hm, no, just hackmoving stuff
[17:51:45] <Colourless> then i don't know. it's been a while since i poked around in the exult internals
[17:51:55] <Colourless> things should act that same regardless though
[17:52:58] <resle> Thanks for all then :) At this point I'll fiddle a bit with Exult entrails!
[17:54:36] <Colourless> you do know that, you don't 'have' to put items in chunks. you can just make all your chunks pure terrain, and then custom design all your buildings as you want
[17:55:28] <resle> ah! Now *that* is interesting
[17:55:36] <resle> and very near to what I am doing...
[17:56:36] <Colourless> building parts are supposed to automatically then be created a fixed items
[17:56:47] <Colourless> s/a/as/
[18:02:26] <resle> Hm... I didn't get this
[18:03:19] <Colourless> i'm going now. too tired to stay up any longer
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[18:13:20] <SB-X> its nice to see exult talk in here once in a while :)
[18:19:46] <wjp> back
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[19:54:43] <Der_SoulFuhrer> WOW FREENODE.NET IS REALLY GAY
[19:54:44] <Der_SoulFuhrer> :(
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