#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 26 Mar 2002 (GMT)

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[00:15:12] <bj0ern> gnight
[00:15:19] <-- bj0ern has left IRC ("Some people hate violence. They're all dead ...")
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[07:33:32] <ShadwChsr> hi
[07:36:38] <Darke> Hi.
[07:46:24] <matto> hi
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[09:46:51] <wjp|work> hi
[09:50:44] <matto> wjp, hi
[09:54:37] <Darke> Hi.
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[10:07:41] <Dominus> hi
[10:07:47] <Dominus> wjp|work: about Geneforge and WinE http://www.ironycentral.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=10&t=000188
[10:17:10] <Darke> Hi Dominus.
[10:31:13] <wjp|work> ah, that's good
[10:31:27] <wjp|work> that mouse issue might be fixable; I might take a look later
[10:31:53] <Dominus> I enjoy playing geneforge, got it registered yesterday
[10:36:19] <matto> dominus!!!!
[10:36:27] <Dominus> oh no
[10:36:32] <Dominus> it's
[10:36:34] <Dominus> matto!!!!!!!
[10:36:36] <Dominus> again
[10:36:38] <Dominus> :-)
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[11:46:40] <Fingolfin> morning
[11:46:54] <Dominus> it's noon already!!!!
[11:46:58] <Dominus> hi
[11:47:00] <Dominus> :-)
[11:48:10] <Darke> Hi.
[11:52:56] <Fingolfin> over here in Germany, it's early morning =)
[12:07:46] <Dominus> hm, strange, here in Austria it is past noon
[12:07:48] <matto> Ich h?tte eine geniale Idee f?r etwas das man in EXULT einbauen sollte. Warum verwendet ihr sie nicht bzw. baut sie in EXULT ein ?
[12:07:48] <Dominus> :-)
[12:08:06] <matto> Eine bessere Frage w?re, warum baust du sie nicht ein ?
[12:08:51] <Fingolfin> gute Frage, nächst Frage =)
[12:09:01] <Dominus> ja, bitte
[12:09:05] <Fingolfin> Dominus: Relativitätstheorie, sage ich nur!
[12:09:21] <Dominus> he he
[12:09:22] <Fingolfin> matto: Schieß los!
[12:10:03] <matto> http://www.xmission.com/~redflame/daphne/faq_german.php#42
[12:10:10] <matto> that's where I got that little question from :)
[12:11:58] <matto> Ich stellte eine Frage und die Antwort darauf war nicht gerade freundlich. Warum ?
[12:13:15] <Fingolfin> matto: die antwort war nicht freundlich?!? IHu?
[12:13:23] <Fingolfin> hehe
[12:13:42] <Fingolfin> nice FAQ
[12:14:36] <matto> thx
[12:14:38] <matto> hot off the translation press
[12:14:47] <Fingolfin> hehe
[12:14:51] <matto> thanks to my Austrian correspondent
[12:15:04] <matto> Andreas Besenlechner
[12:16:28] <Fingolfin> eeel, austrians are evil!
[12:16:38] <Fingolfin> I mean, look at Dominus, he lives there
[12:16:56] <matto> not only does he live there, but he is full blooded Austrian
[12:17:07] * matto looks to see if Dominus is paying attention
[12:17:26] <matto> I didn't realize that the Austrians had such a powerful ski team
[12:17:40] <matto> until they came here to compete
[12:18:40] <Dominus> aargh, you are trying to get into a fight with me I see
[12:18:53] <matto> hehehe nooo!
[12:19:13] <Dominus> actually their wintersports team is the only team that is any good
[12:19:25] <matto> very good!
[12:19:31] <matto> they won a lot of medals here
[12:19:34] <Dominus> the main European sport is soccer and they utterly suck at that
[12:20:09] <matto> and that Swiss ski jumper won two golds .. I forgot his name..
[12:20:31] <Dominus> I'm not into that at all
[12:20:40] <Dominus> nice FAQ btw
[12:20:44] <matto> thx
[12:21:11] <Dominus> I'm currently playing Geneforge, so don't mind my sloooooow responses
[12:21:27] <Fingolfin> matto: you think of the swiss guy now, maybe?
[12:22:41] <matto> Fingolfin: huh?
[12:24:13] <Fingolfin> Amman
[12:24:27] <Fingolfin> young guy, who won two gold medals in ski jumping at the Olympics
[12:28:04] <matto> Amman!
[12:28:10] <matto> yes!
[12:28:13] <matto> he ruled!
[12:28:16] <Fingolfin> from Switzerland
[12:28:21] <Fingolfin> not Austria
[12:28:30] <matto> I never said he was from Austria
[12:28:32] <Fingolfin> although it's almost the same <g>
[12:28:40] <matto> <matto> and that Swiss ski jumper won two golds .. I forgot his name..
[12:28:47] <matto> ^^ - Swiss
[12:28:51] <Fingolfin> hm, indeed!
[12:28:58] <Fingolfin> sorry, I misread it - but at least we agree =)
[12:29:03] <matto> :)
[12:29:12] <matto> I liked those Swiss "Wizard" uniforms hehe
[12:29:17] <matto> silver and orange hehe
[12:31:43] <matto> Fingolfin: do you know whether the Mac version of SDL supports hardware acceleration when using SDL_Overlay ?
[12:31:57] <Fingolfin> dunno, but I doubt it strongly
[12:32:11] <Fingolfin> In fact, I have no clue whether we support anything like SDL_Overlay =)
[12:32:27] <matto> well SDL_Overlay does fall back to software-mode if there is no hardware support
[12:32:35] <matto> or maybe you meant
[12:32:41] <matto> that the Mac has no overlay support at all
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[12:35:01] <Colourless> hi
[12:35:03] <matto> hi
[12:40:30] <Fingolfin> hi
[12:41:31] <Fingolfin> grrr, I hate it when people have no clue (in this case about UTF8 / Unicode) but blame some app they use for not doing it as they think it should - but the app in fact does it right, they are just not understanding the situation at all. Does it ever cross their mind to first ask for the reasons, then to start insulting, I wonder?
[12:42:50] <Colourless> of course not. :-)
[12:42:55] <Colourless> it's never 'their' fault you know
[12:43:03] <matto> Fingolfin: maybe you could make an example of them by revealing that they were the problem and not the program and having everyone get a good laugh at their expense :)
[12:43:17] <Fingolfin> Colourless: true =)
[12:43:21] <matto> hmm that sentence didn't turn out well
[12:43:46] <Colourless> matto: welcome to my world :-)
[12:43:47] <matto> what I am saying is.. you could make them look foolish in front of their peers so that they think twice next time about blaming software
[12:43:57] <matto> I have been known to do this ... anonymously of course :)
[12:44:15] <Fingolfin> matto: well, I already tried in a polite reply to explain it. but he gets back again, repeating the same wrong statments I just tried to explain (completly ignoring what I wrote; it's not that he may not have understaood, he doesn't even give the impression he read it).
[12:44:21] <Fingolfin> hehe
[12:44:27] <matto> Fingolfin: grrrr I hate when they do that!
[12:44:50] <Fingolfin> it's about the terminal app supplied by OS X. Now, he wants to enter UTF8 data into a mysql database for some reasons
[12:45:41] <Fingolfin> and the Terminal.app support various input/output encoding, you can choose ISO Latin 1, Ascii, ISO 2022 JP, and some more... and UTF8 and Unicode
[12:45:49] <Fingolfin> so he thought, just change to UTF8 and all will work
[12:45:54] <Fingolfin> he tested... with cat!
[12:46:10] <Fingolfin> surprise, surprise, that works: when you enter text into cat, what you entered will be echoed back to you! wow! astonishing!
[12:47:10] <Fingolfin> but now he wonders why stuff like "ä" doesn't work in the shell or in mysql! "But it should work! This must be a bug in Terminal.app". I tried to explain to him how UTF8 works, wonder if my second mail manages to do that better... the problem is that UTF8 encoded chars with variable width, 1 to 6 bytes, and these bytes can have "funny" values
[12:47:27] <Fingolfin> so anything that does more than just echoing, i.e. process the input, might filter it out as control chars etc.
[12:48:13] <matto> sounds like this guy shouldn't be using this software :)
[12:48:14] <Fingolfin> also, if you enter backspace, only the last byte of a multi byte sequence would be deleted - what the heck should a terminal emulator app do about this??? Either an App supports an UTF8 input mode or not, a terminal hardly can go in and rewrite the apps you run in it to support this, can it?
[12:48:19] <Fingolfin> yeah
[12:49:44] <matto> one time this guy posted on my BBS and told me that I should write some instructions for some third-party software that I didn't write
[12:50:11] <Fingolfin> he
[12:50:33] <matto> and once again I almost wrote back and said "that software is not supported"
[12:50:42] <matto> but then I remembered that I don't support _any_ software, including the stuff I write hehe
[12:50:49] <matto> so I said "We didn't write that"
[12:51:11] <matto> and he said "Well you really need to write some documentation for it.. I am having a hard time getting it working." I was trying to figure out why he thought it was my duty to solve his problem
[12:51:29] <matto> so I wrote back and said "Send me $100 and I'll help you solve your problems"
[12:51:31] <Dominus> he he
[12:51:35] <matto> and he got mad
[12:51:36] <matto> hehe
[12:51:50] <Dominus> hi Colourless, btw
[12:52:06] <matto> and he said "Look I don't know who you are, but I don't want to talk to you anyway.. I am looking for the guys who wrote daphne"
[12:52:17] <matto> unfortunately for him, he was talking to one of them
[12:52:23] <matto> and I promptly banned him for 1 year
[12:52:31] <Dominus> :-)
[12:52:40] <matto> another rude newbie down the drain.. hehe
[12:54:59] <Fingolfin> <g>
[12:56:54] <matto> hmm.. how does Exult update the screen that is created with SDL_SetVideoMode ? I looked for the keyword "blit" and "flip" and didn't find either one
[12:57:08] <matto> hmm maybe SDL_UpdateRect, eh?
[12:57:43] <matto> yes.. that's got to be it
[12:58:14] <Colourless> yes thats it
[12:59:15] <matto> looks like it happens in Image_window::show ... either this->*show_scaled or SDL_UpdateRect
[13:02:37] <Colourless> what are you trying to do?
[13:02:55] <matto> *innocent look*
[13:03:21] <matto> I was looking into the OpenGL blitting that you said wasn't feasible ... trying to convince myself that it really wasn't feasible :)
[13:05:20] <Colourless> if opengl actually did blitting it would be quite feasible, but as double buffering is done in fullscreen mode, it's not really feasible
[13:05:52] <matto> because only certain regions of the screen are updated at a time ?
[13:06:29] <Colourless> yeah
[13:07:36] <matto> well what if instead of updating a section of the screen, you updated a section of the openGL texture (which would be basically the same data)
[13:07:53] <Colourless> IMO, that is the wrong way of doing it
[13:07:54] <matto> and every frame you drew a simple orthogonal texture mapped rectangle to fill the screen
[13:08:24] <Colourless> what is the point of doing software rendering to a texture?
[13:08:41] <matto> to get hardware scaling and blending
[13:08:43] <Colourless> all you'll get is fast bilinear filtering in the end, and it doesn't look *that* good
[13:08:57] <matto> true.. the filtering, frankly, looks like schlop :)
[13:09:25] <matto> but it should (in theory) be a lot faster than the other scalers
[13:09:52] <Colourless> well that depends on the hit the hardware imposes for updating a texture
[13:10:57] <matto> hmm..
[13:11:34] <matto> well it wouldn't work on a 3dfx card anyway.. hehe
[13:11:49] <matto> that blasted 256x256 texture limit :)
[13:12:27] <matto> yikes ... 6:12 am ...
[13:12:33] <matto> I suppose I should finish sleeping for the night
[13:12:37] <Colourless> 3dfx cards are incidently one of, if not the cards with the fastest texture upload speeds :-)
[13:15:57] <matto> alright well then I'll drop the idea ... hehe
[13:35:15] <wjp|work> yow, actual conversation
[13:35:18] * wjp|work is shocked
[13:37:39] <Darke> wjp: And it's actually on _topic_! Amazing!
[13:52:33] * matto has once again threatened to actualy contribute to exult before withdrawing
[13:53:22] <Fingolfin> eeek
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[14:00:44] * Darke watches Colourless flee in fear at the concept.
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[15:20:13] * Darke bows and is off fur the night. "Night!"
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[15:20:21] <wjp|work> night
[15:20:23] <wjp|work> oops
[16:33:08] * wjp|work has to go
[16:33:08] <wjp|work> bye
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[16:44:51] <Nadir> hi
[16:45:09] <Nadir> I saw the talk about OpenGL earlier.
[16:45:45] <Nadir> have you guys seen this: http://arkanae.tuxfamily.org/en/index.html
[16:48:40] <Dominus> I think I took a look at it ages ago
[16:51:48] <Nadir> The DRI project for XFree86 has just produced a good accelerated driver for my ATI Rage Mobility and I just had the opportunity to test it. The fun thing... it's in Java !!!
[16:52:35] <Nadir> I get 30fps, which I guess is quite good with my hardware
[16:53:19] <Nadir> But I guess you all have GeForces and Radeons there... :(
[17:04:12] <Dominus> nope Voodoo5 :-)
[17:16:55] <Nadir> still better than my crummy 8MB Mach64
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[18:15:37] <Sslaxx> Hi.
[18:15:51] <Colourless> hi
[18:16:00] * Sslaxx hands out strawberries.
[18:16:03] <Sslaxx> How is everyone?
[18:16:22] <Colourless> i can't speak for everyone, but i'm injured
[18:16:29] <Sslaxx> Ouch, why?
[18:17:06] <Colourless> i hurt my left shoulder earlier today
[18:17:14] <Sslaxx> Ow.
[18:19:12] <Colourless> ow indeed. it's kind of an old injurt that i managed to aggrivate
[18:19:31] <Sslaxx> Eek. Not too badly, I hope?
[18:20:41] <Colourless> no, i do'nt think so
[18:21:03] * Sslaxx noddles.
[18:21:28] <Colourless> it's not like i'm in pain or anything... it just hurts when I attempt to do certain actions
[18:21:40] <Sslaxx> Gotcha.
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