#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 26 May 2002 (GMT)

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[00:04:27] --- Darke|afk is now known as Darke
[00:04:31] <Darke> ReHi.
[00:09:31] * wjp yawns
[00:09:35] <wjp> I have to go
[00:09:39] <wjp> bye
[00:09:44] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")
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[00:17:43] --- F is now known as Fi
[00:18:31] * Darke watches Fingolfin shrink to a much shorter size then usual.
[00:18:47] <Fi> there were complaints that my nick is to long <g>
[00:19:00] * Darke snickers.
[00:19:29] <Fi> and F is taken
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[02:03:56] <bj0ern> gnight
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[03:06:36] <dmiles> what is exult?
[03:07:21] <dmiles> oh wait it is ultima
[03:07:29] <dmiles> i was thinkjing ultima online
[03:08:02] <dmiles> or is it?
[03:09:29] <Darke> It's ultima, ultima 7 in specific as the topic mentions. *grin*
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[03:36:22] <dmiles> hehe
[03:36:44] <dmiles> i have a databse system geared for RPGs
[03:37:14] <dmiles> and looking for a game engine open enoiugh (yet fun tio amek worth it)
[03:37:47] <dmiles> fun enough to go through the process of adapting
[03:38:09] <dmiles> to use this database
[03:38:25] <dmiles> but not for storage but for live persistance
[03:38:34] * Darke nods.
[03:38:54] <dmiles> the whole reason is the robust scripted AIs that can result
[03:39:18] <Darke> Currently exult is still rather ultima7 specific, but if you look at exult_studio and such you'll see we're on the way to turning it into a 'proper' game engine.
[03:39:23] <dmiles> when they have inline acess to the same data and can priogramamtically alter
[03:40:06] <dmiles> and when they make a data update (the AI or anythiung) no notification would need sent out
[03:40:42] <dmiles> because the database the AI uses is considered the most relicable
[03:40:49] * Darke nods.
[03:43:01] <dmiles> http://12.225.207.235:8036/cgi-bin/cyccgi/cg?cb-cf&-623 <- example of front end
[03:44:32] <Darke> Cool.
[03:45:25] <dmiles> i figure by messing with the exult codebase i can get better with c++
[03:45:48] <dmiles> hehe thats how i got good with Java
[03:46:17] <dmiles> actually i thought exult was converting the c++ to java
[03:46:33] <dmiles> that must be a simualr SF rpg group
[03:48:02] <Darke> It might help. Exult's very much more 'C++ code written in a C style', it doesn't have a large class inheretence heiracy for example.
[03:48:51] <dmiles> yes c++ code written to not just be C can vbe very elegant
[03:48:53] <Darke> No. We had to write the engine from the ground up. We don't have our hands on the original U7's source, and if we did, we would likely have had to rewrite it anyway.
[03:49:21] <dmiles> understandable
[03:50:26] <dmiles> well i am working with a SF project that have the end goal of RPG's but starting with RPG DB
[03:50:27] <Darke> We're in the process of designing pentagram (a rewrite of the ultima 8 engine) from the ground up to be somewhat more 'object' orientated then exult.
[03:50:55] <dmiles> i am just not excited about writting something ground up from DB
[03:51:09] <dmiles> hoping to find something that needs a DB system
[03:51:32] <dmiles> since thats a huge task just supporting the shapes of objects tsomeone would need
[03:51:57] * Darke _completely_ understands that. He probably wouldn't be helping write pentagram if we already had something to design 'around'. *grin*
[03:52:56] <dmiles> hehe
[03:53:54] <dmiles> every few days i get a flea that makes me grab someones CVS and start stuffing my INSERt/SELECT to all their data acess
[03:54:24] <dmiles> then i get about 3 hours into it...
[03:54:30] <dmiles> or 3 days..
[03:54:37] <Darke> Then you hit the 'problems'. *grin*
[03:54:43] <dmiles> and say hrrm ok i have completely broke their engine
[03:55:18] <dmiles> yes the problems are when they use or pass things by value refernce so i have to make array proxies
[03:55:59] <Darke> Yeah. Unless the engine is exceedingly well designed, or designed from the beginning around a db, it's rather difficult to put one in there. I've had that problem with 'applications' too.
[03:56:03] <dmiles> that way when another part of code changes the array type object it actually translates to a insert/select/add
[03:56:33] * Darke nods and must afk. Real world interfearing. Back in half an hour or so. *grin*
[03:56:35] --- Darke is now known as Darke|afk
[03:56:43] <dmiles> i'll be arround
[03:57:14] <dmiles> exactly.. predesinged around a DB or yes everything has a data object with gert/set methods
[04:07:48] <dmiles> cool you have the experiance and know exacly what it's like
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[05:09:11] <dmiles> so Darke, you seem to understand what i am after a bity
[05:09:15] <dmiles> err bit
[05:09:37] <dmiles> i am used to confusing people :)
[05:10:38] <Darke> *nod* I understand, I think. *grin* I'm pretty sure it's not going to be easy to add it to exult, if you tried too. Primarially because we don't really use all the get/set methods, but just modify the variables directly in most instances, I think.
[05:10:41] <dmiles> do you have any engine suggestions.. or ideas? or maybe i can make my AI/DB suductive enough to make people actually conceptiualize what would need to be done
[05:11:20] <dmiles> i see .. yeah have the DB client the instances
[05:11:43] <dmiles> and replicate itself into teh objects when changes happen
[05:12:14] <Darke> If you had some sort of basic either text interface or 'mud' interface to the AI/DB it would probably be easier for people to see what you're doing/trying to do.
[05:12:35] <Darke> Interactive that is. *grin* You've got a 'text' interface in these webpages.
[05:12:36] <dmiles> yes thats actualluy the current way i am spending my time..
[05:12:40] <dmiles> working on the text client
[05:13:02] <dmiles> more of circlemud type thing
[05:13:32] <dmiles> but your right mainly doing it for a feasiblity demo :)
[05:13:43] <Darke> *nod* That would be the best place to start. That way you can also work out the 'kinks' in your interface. *grin*
[05:14:40] <dmiles> well we have some bugs in the DB that we are discovering that are showstoppers but have a couple people on it
[05:14:51] <dmiles> that the mud system helped expose
[05:15:00] * Darke nods.
[05:15:23] <dmiles> the db has been under development for 25 years by the military for control AI
[05:15:35] <dmiles> just went public a couple months ago
[05:15:56] <dmiles> so we are coming up with public type applications
[05:16:16] <dmiles> i picked out RPG.. where others are doing bussiness t6ype apps
[05:17:11] <dmiles> its normnally used as an expertt system to come up with stratergy and possible detections
[05:17:36] <Darke> *blink* Impressive. And scarily, I think a RPG would be the 'best' thing to test it with. *grin* I don't suppose you've tried to contact the MUD-DEV mailing list or something and ask around about people that might be interested in it?
[05:17:53] <dmiles> yes Bruce is helping out
[05:18:17] <dmiles> we did the emails about ontoliogy
[05:18:36] <dmiles> and how it can combinotoricly grow to help gaming systems
[05:18:45] * Darke nods.
[05:18:46] <dmiles> sometime last month
[05:19:18] * Darke hasn't had much of a chance to read his backlog of MUDDEV emails recently, and apparently unfortunately, that would have been interesting.
[05:20:16] <dmiles> as soon as logicmoo has a small alopha release we are putting it on the list
[05:20:38] <dmiles> bruce wonders what takes so liong.. its just building each command one at a time is a pain
[05:20:54] <dmiles> (writting a player based client)
[05:21:05] <Darke> *nod* Understandable.
[05:21:21] <dmiles> so i was hoping to circumvent work by just brokering for an existing game :)
[05:21:46] <dmiles> even if no advantage is gained at this point
[05:22:35] <Darke> Have you tried looking at some of the mud 'engines' that have replacable databases? Like them being able to swap between say MS-SQL and mySQL? You might be able to slot your DB in there with minimal effort.
[05:23:15] <dmiles> thats what i have been trying to doi exactly.. one that is specifically that. so far everything like it has not released source files
[05:23:48] <dmiles> or some that look like they do are only for world save/loads
[05:24:21] <dmiles> but i am not very good at searching since i have not had much engine eperiance
[05:24:50] <dmiles> i just figurted out last week that MMORPG was not a 'specific' engine b tu an acronym :)
[05:25:07] <Darke> Have you hunted through the muds on sf.net? I seem to remember tripping over one or two that mentioned they had a selectable DB 'backend'.
[05:25:20] <Darke> *grin* Ah well, eveyone has to start somewhere.
[05:26:20] <dmiles> Arianne RPG keeps comming up..
[05:26:45] <Darke> That rings a bell.
[05:26:50] <dmiles> but gouign though it is not data driven
[05:28:48] <Darke> *nod* And it's also quite large. IMO, what you're probably looking for has 'just' enough complexity to do basically what you want, and you can flesh the rest out on top of it later.
[05:29:33] <dmiles> hehe .. yeah otherwise its juyst a big code rewrite
[05:30:16] <dmiles> something interesting enough for users.. but simple enough i can edit about maybe 8 files max
[05:31:55] <dmiles> projects that map and instance 1-to-1 with object tpyes that are in game can be a bit much..
[05:32:10] <dmiles> like each spell being its own class.. arg
[05:32:24] * Darke nods. Yeah, that's certainly non-trivial. *grin*
[05:35:15] * Darke hunts through his MUD related bookmarks. He's sure there's a webpage out there detailing which codebases are good at what.
[05:35:31] <dmiles> thank you
[05:42:46] <dmiles> hrhr phpRPG looking good
[05:43:18] <dmiles> i have to see if its interesting enough to play though :P
[05:43:29] * Darke nods. Yeah.
[05:44:15] <dmiles> the DB system needs a good excuse to spoof a SQLD anyways.. something i put off
[05:45:05] <dmiles> and internally we figure if we publish one people will complain about perfomance in comparison
[05:45:46] <dmiles> but wow if i could get away wth onl;y doing that
[05:45:56] <Darke> *grin*
[05:46:51] * Darke can't seem to find that mud comparison unfortunately. Plenty of links to just mud code itself, but nothing saying which mud is good for what.
[05:47:54] <dmiles> phpRPG is a multiplayer fantasy role playing game driven by PHP and MySQL, with aims to develop a web-based game engine which shares common qualities between multiple user dungeons (MUDs), paper & pen RPGs and computer RPGs.
[05:48:37] <dmiles> as long i i dont see only 'SQL storage'
[05:49:15] * Darke nods. He's flicking through the webpage at the moment. It looks rather pretty. *grin*
[05:50:34] <Darke> But a bit 'simple'. Hmm... I suppose it's much easier to 'complicate' it if you need to, then to simplify a complex engine.
[05:51:28] <dmiles> is it a wlak artound and look and chat?
[05:51:43] <dmiles> take/get and thats about it?
[05:52:17] <Darke> It looks like there's some sort of combat in it too. But the only real way to find out I suppose is to register and try it. *grin*
[05:53:22] <dmiles> yep about to do that :) to get a baseline
[05:54:47] <Darke> Enjoy! *grin* I'm having fun poking through the source. Considering I don't know much about php to begin with, it's surprisingly readable.
[05:55:09] <dmiles> yes i leaned Php in about 2 weeks .. its very tclish
[05:55:59] <dmiles> the thing i liked was how debugable it was for a web language
[05:56:10] * Darke nods.
[05:58:03] <dmiles> oh god its nearly perfect.. i can maybe do it all in one day :)
[05:58:14] <Darke> From the look of it, all the client data is stored in the DB. Just grabbed when needed.
[05:58:17] <Darke> Cool! *grin*
[05:58:35] * Darke thinks that was far, far too easy. What's the catch? *grin*
[05:59:26] <dmiles> finding now a SQLD in Java that i can hulk out and deflect into the DB's current API
[06:00:17] <dmiles> somewaht non trivial, but at least very pragmatic task
[06:00:43] <Darke> That might be tougher. But I'm sure there has to be at least one of those around, even if it's very basic.
[06:01:09] <dmiles> well mySQL has no weird scripting expectations unlike other SQLDs
[06:02:48] <dmiles> (if i do this, i might justify billing hours too :)
[06:03:10] <Darke> *grin* Always a good thing to be able to do.
[06:34:11] <dmiles> oh wow this is not very non trivial :)
[06:34:35] <dmiles> i am going through the sql server code in a lkanguag i am intimate with
[06:35:23] <dmiles> and it seems to export things like primary keys extetra.. grrsh
[06:36:25] * Darke snickers and likes the phrase 'not very non trivial'. "Cool."
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[06:49:53] <sb-x> hello
[06:50:03] <Darke> Hi.
[06:52:28] * sb-x doesn't understand the logs.
[06:53:13] <Darke> sb-x: Don't worry. There's nothing really at all relevant to exult in them. *grin*
[06:54:08] <dmiles> :) i am just getting some help
[06:54:54] <sb-x> Oooh, your magenta instead of blue.
[06:55:03] <dmiles> in the log?
[06:55:08] <sb-x> s/your/you're/
[06:55:13] <Darke> sb-x: "This is not the #exult logs you're looking for..."
[06:55:29] <sb-x> dmiles: in the log you are blue
[06:55:30] <dmiles> btw: thats how i found this channel when i googled fro RPGs
[06:55:31] <sb-x> oh
[06:55:34] <sb-x> heh
[06:55:43] <dmiles> found weblogs
[06:55:50] * sb-x dares Darke to pod-race him.
[06:58:15] * Darke declines the podrace.
[06:59:09] * sb-x expected as much.
[07:02:17] <sb-x> The last couple of days I was disconnected without knowing it, and said things after being disconnected, and didn't realize I had been disconnected until I read the log.
[07:02:57] * sb-x wonders if there is a void that sucks up text that doesn't get to IRC.
[07:03:40] * Darke thinks it's that mysterious 'bit bucket in the sky' that's occasionally referenced. *grin*
[07:03:59] * sb-x sheds a tear for those little bits.
[07:09:55] <sb-x> Does anyone know how to save a real media stream?
[07:10:46] <Darke> A .ram file?
[07:11:06] <sb-x> all I have is a link to a pnm:// source
[07:11:15] <Darke> That is, a file file that streams a static .rm file?
[07:11:34] <sb-x> the file with the link is .rm, but that is what it is
[07:12:02] <Darke> Hmm... no. I don't know how to handle that. You might want to search around the net for programs that can actually record that. I know they are out there, since a friend mentioned them to me.
[07:12:20] <sb-x> but you forgot what the friend said? :)
[07:12:49] <Darke> He didn't mention the name of the program, just that he mentioned he was able to do that, and had done so. *grin*
[07:13:11] <sb-x> i googled earlier
[07:13:22] <sb-x> but don't really know what to search for
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[07:14:36] <es_bee-ex> aah
[07:14:48] * es_bee-ex cries for his Internet connection.
[07:15:11] <es_bee-ex> s/for/about/ since I don't have much sympathy for it
[07:16:18] <es_bee-ex> Darke: a packet sniffer?
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[07:18:21] <Darke> I've not really got much of an idea either. *grin* I've never really tried to do that.
[07:18:58] <sbx> Ethereal - Sniffing the glue that holds the Internet together
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[07:32:14] * Darke hmms... looks like you've got just a little bit of a net connection problem today. *grin*
[07:33:05] <sb-x> ...
[07:33:21] <sb-x> "Oh? I havn't noticed one bit."
[07:33:21] * sb-x ho-hums.
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[07:49:04] * Darke hmms... three sbx-en.
[07:50:27] * sbx thought he was past the "enter random commands and see what they do" stage of learning linux, but maybe he is not.
[07:51:03] <sbx> I did /sbin/killall5 and everything froze.
[07:51:38] <sbx> or at least X locked me out
[07:52:27] * Darke suggests doing a `man foo` first. Doing a `killall5` is somewhat suboptimal to a running system. *grin*
[07:53:01] * sbx runs first and reads the manual later.
[07:53:51] <sbx> guess i thought it wouldn't hurt if im not root
[07:54:44] <Darke> Depends upon how you define 'hurt'. *grin* But yes, at least it won't kill the system if you're not root.
[07:55:46] <sbx> Depends on how I've chmodedededd things lately.
[07:59:25] * sbx tries 'for ROULETTE in `ls --quoting-style=normal /sbin/*` ; do $ROULETTE ; done'.
[07:59:48] <sbx> jk
[08:00:25] <sbx> s/normal/literal/ if you want to try it
[08:00:27] * Darke makes a mental note to try that sometime as a normal user. At the very least you'll know if you chmodded something _really_ wrong. *grin*
[08:00:40] * sbx hasn't actually done that of course.
[08:02:24] <sbx> /bin/ls would be better than ls so you dont pick up an 'ls' alias
[08:03:01] <sbx> Darke: and at the very worst you'll know if you chmodded something _really_ wrong
[08:03:20] * sbx mgrins.
[08:03:55] <Darke> Bingo. *grin* Unmount and backup all non-essential partitions before you try this.
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[08:25:52] <Pyro-X> don't try this at home kids: :() { : | : & } ; :
[08:26:36] * Pyro-X actually got a fs error in sector 666, but fsck didn't do anything about it.
[08:26:49] * Darke snickers.
[08:30:45] * Pyro-X thinks he ran out of luck long ago, and it would just be safer if he left.
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[08:30:53] * Pyro-X waves
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[09:01:59] <Darke> Neat. It takes gcc3.0.4 3m40s to compile the pentagram tree on my machine, yet gcc3.1 takes only 3m18s. Still not quick enough, but better then the expected slowdown. *grin*
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[10:32:37] <wjp> hi
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[13:19:56] <Colourless> hi
[13:20:03] --- Colourless is now known as Cless|here
[13:20:10] <Cless|here> :-)
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[13:44:17] * wjp grins at Cless|here's nick
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[13:45:08] <Colourless> better?
[13:45:21] <wjp> no, not really :-)
[13:46:07] * Colourless has no come back
[13:47:58] <wjp> :-)
[14:25:21] <Colourless> you may have noticed i added the pentagram/docs/design/classes.txt file a number of days back. it's not finished, but look through it if you want, and add/change anything you want. there are a number of things missing so, there is much that could be done.
[14:25:42] <wjp> yeah, I browsed through it when you committed it
[14:26:24] <wjp> looked pretty good
[14:28:41] * wjp checks out a copy of the pentagram cvs here and browses through it again
[14:30:15] <wjp> I guess the reason why some of the Flex classes inherit Flex public and others protected is because the public ones just return raw data?
[14:31:44] <Colourless> yep pretty much
[14:32:05] <Colourless> for the protected ones, you don't need to access the raw data
[14:32:30] <wjp> hm, did U8 have a separate inventory and stats gump?
[14:32:33] <Colourless> for some of the public ones, the only reason for the extra classes is for a method to handle the 'index 0' data.
[14:33:03] <Colourless> the paperdoll and stats were the same gump
[14:33:22] <wjp> they also had a minimized version, right?
[14:33:26] <wjp> s/they/it/
[14:33:41] <Colourless> yep
[14:41:49] <wjp> what exactly are your thoughts on the Shape/ShapeFrame/ShapeGL classes?
[14:47:26] <Colourless> not ideal, but i don't know a better solution
[14:47:58] <Colourless> it's possible to use just a single class for the shapes
[14:48:17] <wjp> but what exactly do you plan to have the 3 classes do?
[14:48:43] <Colourless> they are pretty much the same as the 'old' versions of the same classes
[14:49:33] <wjp> oh, they already exist? guess I should catch up a little :-)
[14:50:34] <Colourless> if i'm not mistaken you did write Shape and ShapeFrame :-)
[14:50:39] <wjp> I did?!
[14:50:42] <wjp> oh my
[14:50:59] * wjp wonders just how long ago that was
[14:52:45] * wjp browses some code
[14:53:26] * Colourless notes "Copyright (C) 2002 Willem Jan Palenstijn" at the top of viewer/Shape.h
[14:53:32] <wjp> :-)
[14:54:55] <wjp> hm, I wonder what that ShapeFrame::length field is supposed to do
[14:55:00] <Colourless> including the OpenGL versions of the Shape classes back into the Shape class would probably be a reasonably good idea. it would remove the need to do an extra lookup in places
[15:01:19] <Colourless> heh, you read the 'Virus alert?' email.
[15:03:59] <wjp> yeah
[15:04:26] <wjp> I think the same thing was reported in here a while back
[15:04:37] <Colourless> yeah it was
[15:04:50] <Colourless> looks like there is a substandard virus scanner out there
[16:14:46] <wjp> time to go again
[16:14:47] <wjp> brb
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[16:46:41] <Colourless> Fing what? FingER? :-)
[16:46:55] <Fingolfin> bah
[16:46:57] <Fingolfin> somebody was using my nickname
[16:46:59] <Fingolfin> :-)
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[16:51:55] <wjp> hi
[16:53:56] <Colourless> wb
[17:02:39] <Fingolfin> hi
[17:05:08] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[17:05:16] <Colourless> hi
[17:05:28] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Dominus
[17:05:34] <Dominus> hi
[17:07:05] * Dominus wonders what 3dfxU wants to prove with a "driver" kit which has only their tools and a new glide3 file?
[17:07:37] * Colourless looks to the sky
[17:08:17] <Colourless> I know! they are doing a really bad job at attempting to show that they are doing something, when in reality, they aren't
[17:08:17] <Dominus> not to mention that their install routine just crapped out on my side...
[17:09:43] <Dominus> I'm just glad Iwas sure it would look like this but I have at least thought they would try showing off their mystical icd...
[17:10:41] <Colourless> i wouldn't be. :-)
[17:11:10] * Dominus download sdl-mixer instead and tries to compile Exult with mp3 support instead - might be more useful than talking about 3dfxU :-)
[17:11:46] <Colourless> but it was so totally expected that the icd would be a no show that i really it was nothing to be concerned about
[17:11:56] <Colourless> s/i //
[17:12:11] <Dominus> he he
[17:12:38] * Dominus will probably look at the x3dfx board later to read the latest devo bashing...
[17:35:21] <Dominus> found a strange rendering bug in Exult
[17:35:42] <Colourless> such things are not unheard of :-)
[17:35:48] <Dominus> start a new game in Bg, go into the inn to the south
[17:35:58] <Colourless> rendering in exult tend to be strange in places
[17:36:25] <Dominus> stand close to the round table, and then close and open the inn's door
[17:36:55] <Dominus> the picture on the wall is sometimes rendered on top of the chair close to the wall
[17:37:08] --- Darke|afk is now known as Darke
[17:37:29] <Colourless> that is a strange bug
[17:38:06] <Colourless> hello bunny rabbit
[17:38:30] * wjp looks at time
[17:38:36] * wjp calculates time in .au
[17:38:42] * wjp double-checks
[17:39:37] <wjp> Darke: good...ummm... morning?
[17:39:41] <Colourless> yes, that is the time. and i believe that darke has just gotten out of bed :-)
[17:40:14] * wjp hands Darke a large cup of coffee
[17:40:47] <Dominus> Colourless: should I file this rendering bug in the tracker?
[17:40:49] <Darke> Hi. *grin* No thanks, I don't drink coffee.
[17:40:59] <Dominus> good morning Dominus
[17:41:03] <Dominus> he he
[17:41:04] <wjp> lol
[17:41:12] <Dominus> meant good morning Darke
[17:41:25] * Darke tisktisks. Relying on autocompletion. *grin*
[17:41:26] <Colourless> Dominus: up to you.
[17:42:21] * Colourless hands darke a cup of tea since he doesn't like coffee
[17:42:46] * wjp adds some raw caffeine to that tea
[17:45:04] <Darke> *grin* Sorry, don't drink tea either.
[17:46:44] * Darke drinks ice-coffee flavoured milk, and the occasional coke/pepsi. They're pretty much his only sources of caffine. *grin*
[17:48:47] * Colourless sighs
[17:48:58] <Colourless> that rabbit is impossible to please
[17:49:16] * Dominus really shouldn't do anything with his mighty hangover
[17:49:45] <Dominus> I checked out the audiotest branch and started compiling it
[17:50:16] <Dominus> problem was I was executing my batch file that automatically uses the main branch of course....
[17:50:32] <Dominus> And I wondered why it didn't work with the mp3 support...
[17:55:16] <Dominus> hm, won'T compile for me...
[17:56:34] * wjp checks out audiotest branch
[17:57:48] <wjp> oh... need to install SDL_mixer
[17:58:11] <Dominus> I get a couple of :C:/Programme/Div/Curios/MinGw/BIN/../lib/gcc-lib/mingw32/2.95.3-6/../../../../include/SDL_mixer.h:61: syntax error before `('
[17:58:43] <Colourless> love that path name :-)
[18:02:32] <Dominus> I fear I also have to download the vorbis ogg sdk to have it work... (as Simon's mp3s are actually oggs)
[18:02:49] <Colourless> oggs are not mp3s :-)
[18:03:00] <Colourless> simon calling the oggs mp3s confuses things
[18:03:17] <Dominus> similar to what I thought...
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[18:22:58] <wjp> he named ogg files .mp3??
[18:25:21] * Darke emerges sdl-mixer and ehs?
[18:26:35] <Dominus> no he calls his ogg files mp3 files (look at our file release page - the zips named mp3 something contain .ogg files)
[18:26:52] * wjp sighs
[18:28:07] <Colourless> Dominus: you know, you couldn't have made that statement any less clear. are the contents of the zips .mp3 or .ogg?
[18:28:23] <Dominus> he he
[18:28:30] <Dominus> .ogg
[18:29:38] <Colourless> ok then. someone should just send an email to the mailing list instructing simon to stop calling them mp3s and instead just call them oggs
[18:29:43] <Dominus> the file called U7MusicMp3_1of2.zip in our files release page contains files named xxbg.ogg
[18:30:41] <Dominus> Colourless: you are welcome to do so... :-)
[18:31:22] * Colourless is too busy :-)
[18:36:42] * Darke summons some time management daemons to hover around Colourless' head.
[18:42:56] <wjp> Dominus: oh, you emailed about it too, I see :-)
[18:43:32] <Dominus> did you as well?
[18:43:39] <wjp> yea
[18:43:39] <wjp> h
[18:45:17] <Colourless> :-)
[18:48:04] <wjp> ugh... you have to copy them into a directory named 'mp3', and set the midi conversion to 'mp3'
[18:48:17] <wjp> somehow I get the feeling Simon may be a little confused
[18:49:00] <Colourless> well, i should be going. i've got to get up earlier tomorrow because i've got a telephone job interview
[18:49:07] <Dominus> I think setting it so you have to put them in either data/music or "path to game"/music might be better
[18:49:15] <Dominus> good luck
[18:49:16] <wjp> g'night, and good luck tomorrow
[18:49:37] <Darke> Goodnight. Luck!
[18:49:55] <Colourless> yeah, thanks
[18:50:23] <wjp> it does sound pretty good
[18:50:35] <wjp> pity the music stops when exult loses focus
[18:50:52] <Colourless> simon did that intentionally
[18:51:04] <Colourless> anyway, i depart
[18:51:05] <-- Colourless has left IRC ("no comment")
[18:51:09] <Dominus> well, I have to admit I'd love this feature (if I'd get it to compile :-))
[18:51:17] <wjp> intentionally?
[18:51:33] <Dominus> Having the music or sfx play even when Exult is not the focus bothered me for some time
[18:52:03] <wjp> it bothers me that it stops every time I move the mouse cursor out of the window
[18:52:07] * Darke quite liked it. But he plays in a window and his mouse is continually going out of it. It'd be nice if the world still continued too.
[18:52:34] <Dominus> well, then I'd say make it configurable :-)
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[19:35:39] <_Mungo> Hey guys it's me Mr MP3!
[19:36:17] <wjp> hi :-)
[19:36:43] <_Mungo> so is it going to be OGG, MP3 or what?
[19:37:13] <wjp> well, since it isn't mp3, I wouldn't name it mp3
[19:37:21] <Dominus> oh, hi
[19:38:02] <wjp> you do have a point that ogg might not be a familiar term to most users
[19:38:12] <_Mungo> probably would be best to use the "data/music" directory and rename all MP3 references in the game to OGG.
[19:38:26] <_Mungo> As long as we make it clear in the README users should be OK with this.
[19:38:45] <Dominus> something more generic would be best, though I cannot think of anything
[19:39:10] <Dominus> like "digital music" or something like that
[19:40:13] <_Mungo> Yeah, I thought of digital music but then again that could be confusing as it could get mixed up with MIDI.
[19:43:26] <Dominus> then the name has to be "digital Music but not MIDI" :-)
[19:45:33] <Dominus> maybe mp3/ogg as it is possible to use both (and more)
[19:45:52] <_Mungo> actually thinking about it just "Digital Music" does sound best, of course this would be explained in the README that this is OGG encoded music which is like MP3, then users will probably understand that.
[19:46:28] <_Mungo> Then in future we could OGG or MP3.
[19:46:56] <Dominus> which is a good thing for the likelyhodd of people developing a game with ES
[19:48:13] <Dominus> and how about my suggestion of making it configurable in exult.cg where Exult finds the files?
[19:48:49] <_Mungo> the config sounds good, defaulting to data/music ?
[19:48:55] <wjp> good idea, but I would name the tag just '<music>'
[19:48:57] <Dominus> yep
[19:49:50] <Dominus> default is a must of course
[19:50:41] --> EazyCheez has joined #exult
[19:50:42] <EazyCheez> hey
[19:50:52] <Dominus> _Mungo, did you think of my suggestions concerning the grandfather clock sfx?
[19:50:58] <EazyCheez> so what's all this about new MP3-based music/samples?
[19:51:20] <Dominus> EazyCheez: _Mungo is your man!
[19:51:51] <Darke> s/MP3/OGG/
[19:51:52] <wjp> s/MP3/OGG/
[19:51:53] <wjp> lol
[19:51:55] <EazyCheez> ahh
[19:52:01] <Darke> wjp: Out of my mind. *grin*
[19:52:01] <EazyCheez> OGG then
[19:52:08] <_Mungo> Dom, is that about putting the original tick/tock samples back? This is what I did and created a new "ticktock" sample with an unused SFX number. Current samples/code uses this new approach.
[19:52:16] <EazyCheez> where do I get the new samples, and how do I use them?
[19:52:30] <wjp> you can get the music files from our SF files page
[19:52:43] <_Mungo> Eazy, they are OGG files (currently referenced as MP3) on the main Exult Sourceforge site.
[19:52:55] <wjp> (ie. follow the "For a full list, ..." link on our download page)
[19:53:07] <Dominus> _Mungo: actually I wanted to ask you to make it possible for other packs to work
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[19:53:58] <Dominus> EazyCheez: you need to checkout cvs with the branch "audiotest" (without "")
[19:54:25] <_Mungo> Dom, doing it that way is possible but I don't know how to do this yet. i.e. time based object SFX.
[19:54:38] <EazyCheez> Dominus: will I get totally mindblasted with the test stuff? :)
[19:54:40] <EazyCheez> erm
[19:54:42] <EazyCheez> tech stuff
[19:55:20] <Dominus> _Mungo: as long as you keep it in mind and think about adding it later I'm happy
[19:56:06] <EazyCheez> hmm
[19:56:28] <EazyCheez> I've got the first of the OGGfiles; where do I put it and the 2nd?
[19:56:38] <wjp> it's in the readme in the .zip
[19:57:04] <EazyCheez> what's sqsfxbg.zip?
[19:57:05] <Dominus> _Mungo: maybe we could do a hack: have a soundless wave in our exult.flx, then have exult play tick, soundless wave, tock
[19:57:07] <EazyCheez> new sound pack?
[19:57:12] * wjp nods
[19:57:22] <wjp> that's _Mungo (Simon Quinn's) pack
[19:57:40] * wjp moves the 's to a more logical place in that last line
[19:57:43] <EazyCheez> is it different from Dominik's?
[19:57:46] <Dominus> EazyCheez: with the sounds that were played when you had a roland with the original game
[19:58:43] <_Mungo> Dom, the samples are already there i.e. tick and tock its just a matter of implementing some time based, repetition of these two with a pause in between. This hasn't been done with any samples in Exult apart from a few inside the Usecode, i.e. clacker.
[19:58:57] <Dominus> EazyCheez: Joseph's and Simon's packs are how the original sounded, mine is a mixture of mostly Ultima Online and Joseph's sfx
[19:59:33] <Dominus> _Mungo: ok
[20:00:25] <_Mungo> Eazy, my sfx pack is the original sounds recorded from the Roland MT-32, which not many people had access to, the JM one is the FM sounds from the original.
[20:01:21] <_Mungo> Ideally you should use my SFX pack with the MP3/OGG music files for that "authentic" Roland sound that users would have experienced in the original Ultima7 :-)
[20:03:08] <EazyCheez> I did listen to a few samples
[20:03:16] <EazyCheez> and they are very nice sounding
[20:03:37] <EazyCheez> I think I'll use your music packs Simon, and your sound effects Dominik :)
[20:03:44] <Dominus> http://exult.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=7085&t=7085 quite funny :-)
[20:03:59] <Dominus> in a weird way :-)
[20:04:14] <EazyCheez> to make the game sound as nice as possible, along with LOOKING as nice as possible thanks to Derek Liauw Ki Fa
[20:04:19] <EazyCheez> or whatever his name is
[20:05:53] <EazyCheez> god I love your Update Exult install option
[20:06:27] <Dominus> EazyCheez: the ogg/mp3 music is not in snapshot
[20:06:41] <Dominus> and probably won't be until after the 1.0 release
[20:06:51] <matto> Exult rules!
[20:07:03] * Dominus blinks
[20:07:21] <Dominus> did there really one of our lurkers say something :-)
[20:07:26] <Dominus> matto!!!!!
[20:07:33] <matto> I haven't been in here for quite some time :)
[20:07:39] <matto> been in windows too much lately
[20:07:42] <EazyCheez> ahh
[20:07:45] <EazyCheez> I noticed that
[20:07:56] <Dominus> You know, I actually noticed your absence
[20:07:58] <_Mungo> I wonder if it would be better to hide the OGG files. I can imagine we'll get loads of questions as to why they aren't working with Exult!
[20:08:01] <EazyCheez> there's no 'mp3' music conversion option
[20:08:09] <matto> Dominus: I'm touched *sniff*
[20:08:25] <Dominus> _Mungo: might be a good idea, for now
[20:08:34] * EazyCheez hugs matto
[20:08:46] <matto> EZ!!
[20:08:49] * EazyCheez hugs his favorite project's dev team
[20:08:53] <EazyCheez> hehe
[20:08:53] <matto> well that was the Cheeziest hug I got!
[20:08:59] <EazyCheez> one big collective hug
[20:09:25] <Dominus> EazyCheez: anyway, even if it makes it into the snapshot, for now you would have to enter it manually in exult.cfg
[20:09:44] <_Mungo> Eazy, you need to compile Exult from the 'audiotest' CVS branch. What OS are you running?
[20:10:30] <Dominus> matto: what have you been doing in windows?
[20:10:43] <EazyCheez> ah
[20:10:54] <EazyCheez> Dominus: I don't mind that :)
[20:10:58] <EazyCheez> _Mungo: winxp
[20:11:14] <EazyCheez> and I know nothing about programming and such
[20:12:31] <_Mungo> Eazy, the MP3 stuff is still in alpha stage.
[20:14:29] <Dominus> EazyCheez: I'd wait until it is in usable stage. _Mungo just recently sjoined the team and some of the mp3 stuff still has to be ironed out and unless you want to download CVS and build it yourself all the time, you have to be patient.
[20:15:09] <Dominus> But in the source there is a nice instruction of how to compile it yourself (ReadMe.win32)
[20:16:23] <matto> Dominus: playing warcraft 3 :(
[20:16:43] <Dominus> well here I do it as well, for smplicity's sake I'm saying mp3 as well, instead of ogg or whatever... :-)
[20:19:05] <_Mungo> Dom, "Digital Music"! :)
[20:19:39] <Dominus> Digital Music Digital Music Digital Music Digital Music Digital Music Digital Music Digital Music
[20:19:50] <Dominus> I think I now got the hang of it :-)
[20:20:06] <_Mungo> That's better.
[20:20:56] <_Mungo> So what about the pausing of the music and SFX? Do people like this idea or not?
[20:21:38] <Dominus> I like it, ongoing music, even though I wasn't in Exult annoyed me quite a bit
[20:22:10] <Dominus> or even the sfx if you were at the coast....
[20:22:56] <_Mungo> I can easily make it configurable.
[20:23:21] * Dominus mimics Picard: Make it so!
[20:23:42] <Dominus> proabyl the best to have it configurable
[20:27:09] <EazyCheez> ok dominik :)
[20:27:10] <EazyCheez> sorry
[20:27:18] <EazyCheez> Dominik is a cool name
[20:27:34] <EazyCheez> I was just playing Exult for a bit
[20:27:36] <Dominus> thanks
[20:27:48] <EazyCheez> in BG, up to the point where I get the password
[20:27:55] <EazyCheez> yep I just started a new game
[20:28:08] <EazyCheez> I always love playing the U7's
[20:30:22] * Dominus hopes for Kirben to show up sometime so he can help me figure out how to compile "audiotest"
[20:30:43] <_Mungo> Dom, what's the problem with the compile?
[20:31:10] <Dominus> it craps out with sdl_mixer.h
[20:32:15] <Dominus> SDL_mixer.h:61: syntax error before `('
[20:32:23] <Dominus> that is mingw32 on XP
[20:33:39] <_Mungo> Strange, I can send you the SDL/SDL_mixer includes and lib files I use to compile on MING on XP.
[20:33:56] <Dominus> that would be nice
[20:34:23] <wjp> Dominus: could you dcc me your SDL_mixer.h?
[20:35:02] <EazyCheez> damnation
[20:35:13] <EazyCheez> U8WIN9X doesn't work in XP
[20:35:15] <EazyCheez> haw
[20:35:23] <EazyCheez> guess that's to be expected
[20:35:25] <Dominus> it does for me
[20:35:31] <EazyCheez> Dominus: how?
[20:35:46] <_Mungo> that file contains all you'll need.
[20:35:46] <EazyCheez> what settings do you choose?
[20:35:59] <wjp> extern DECLSPEC const SDL_version * SDLCALL Mix_Linked_Version(void);
[20:36:12] <EazyCheez> I get pops and weird sounds when I start u8w
[20:36:13] <Dominus> well, unless you have vdms installed, you can't enable music
[20:36:17] <EazyCheez> ahh
[20:36:20] <EazyCheez> vdms
[20:36:36] <EazyCheez> I remember that'
[20:36:43] <EazyCheez> it was way too hard to set up for me
[20:36:47] <EazyCheez> hehe
[20:37:23] <Dominus> well, wjp: the errors multiply it starts at lin 61 but goes on and on...
[20:37:25] <_Mungo> Eazy, you don't have to do anything with VDMS, just right click on the program and select "Run with VDMS"
[20:37:43] <wjp> do all the lines contain DECLSPEC?
[20:37:46] <_Mungo> Dom, I tried sending you a file but it timed out.
[20:37:54] <Dominus> can you try again?
[20:38:14] <EazyCheez> ahh! k
[20:38:38] <Dominus> hm, doesn't want to come over, strange
[20:38:50] <Dominus> can you mail it to gigdr@tesionmail.de
[20:39:18] <wjp> _Mungo: are you behind NAT or a firewall?
[20:39:30] <Dominus> EazyCheez: alternately, you can get the gui for VDMS as well and with that you have a more "transparent" way to set it up for each game
[20:39:35] <_Mungo> NO probs for me.
[20:40:18] <_Mungo> Dom, on its way.
[20:41:40] <Dominus> wjp: seems like it
[20:42:02] <EazyCheez> k... guess I have to log off and back on :)
[20:42:06] <EazyCheez> cya in a bit
[20:42:09] <-- EazyCheez has left IRC ("oWiRC version 0.74")
[20:44:12] <wjp> I think I'll go back to hunting for a crescent-shaped-thingie to fit in a crescent-shaped hole to open the way to an inner crypt in Geneforge
[20:44:24] <Dominus> he he
[20:44:26] * wjp _hates_ that Shaper Crypt :-)
[20:44:27] <Dominus> Geneforge :-)
[20:45:13] <wjp> and that stupid servant mind... "Uh.. no, I don't no anything about that! No, not a thing!"
[20:45:22] <wjp> I don't believe a word he's saying :-)
[20:45:28] <wjp> s/no/know/
[20:47:34] <Dominus> _Mungo: and for ogg support did you need the libs and where did you put them ?
[20:48:18] <wjp> Dominus: oh, btw, is your SDL version the same as your SDL_mixer version?
[20:48:55] <Dominus> wjp: that might be it and I just corrected it (a minute before you asked) :-)
[20:48:56] <_Mungo> Dom, no need under Windows everything is in SDL.dll and SDL_mixer.dll, under Linux you need the SDL, SDL_mixer, Ogg, Vorbis libraries
[20:49:18] <_Mungo> SDL doesn't need to be the same version. SDL_mixer must be 1.2.4
[20:49:38] <wjp> rebooting to windows; brb
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[20:49:47] <Dominus> I guess it was the non-matching mixer and sdl libs
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[20:49:51] <Dominus> it is now working
[20:49:54] <EazyCheez> hm
[20:50:01] <Dominus> hm...?
[20:50:03] <EazyCheez> nope U8 doesn't work
[20:50:10] <EazyCheez> I start it up
[20:50:34] <EazyCheez> then "Origin Systems" and "Lord British Game" come up as usual
[20:50:56] <EazyCheez> then when the starfield with the unlit pentagram comes up, it crashes
[20:51:07] <_Mungo> go to go, maybe back later.
[20:51:11] <Dominus> EazyCheez: things to check: are you using the latest U8 for windows patch?
[20:51:21] <Dominus> _Mungo: thanks for dropping in :-)
[20:51:24] <EazyCheez> u8 for windows patch?
[20:51:36] <Dominus> I mean u8run or whatever it is called
[20:51:38] <-- matto has left IRC ("This feeling.. inside me. Finally found my life, I'm finally free. No longer torn in two. Living my own life by learning f)
[20:51:38] <_Mungo> bye
[20:51:43] <Dominus> bye
[20:51:43] <-- _Mungo has left IRC ()
[20:52:17] <Dominus> that link http://members.iinet.net.au/~rsd/U8inWindows.html
[20:52:35] <Dominus> and have you read what is written there?
[20:52:45] <EazyCheez> ahh
[20:52:50] <EazyCheez> yeah I have
[20:53:44] <Dominus> then make sure you have chosen in the instal program ot to use sound and music
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[20:54:04] <EazyCheez> NOT to use sound and music?
[20:54:21] <Dominus> unless you are using vdms
[20:54:28] <EazyCheez> oh I am
[20:54:42] <EazyCheez> now it makes weird sounds
[20:54:49] <EazyCheez> I hear them above the music
[20:54:58] <Dominus> ah, yes, sfx is not supported for U8
[20:54:58] <EazyCheez> which sounds sorta normal
[20:55:03] <EazyCheez> then it crashes
[20:55:11] <Dominus> disable just sound effects
[20:55:28] <EazyCheez> they were ahh... sorta bad anyway
[20:55:40] <EazyCheez> the speech segments are subtitled aren't they?
[20:55:49] <Dominus> yep
[20:56:01] <EazyCheez> kewl
[20:56:31] <Dominus> also open your config.nt file in Windows\system32 with notepad and add a line files=50 to it
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[20:58:39] <Dominus> yeah, exult with ogg works for me!!!!
[21:04:34] <EazyCheez> wow
[21:04:45] <EazyCheez> send me your custom compiled copy? ;)
[21:05:10] <EazyCheez> hmm u8 does run a bit slow
[21:05:19] <EazyCheez> could that be because of the lower file handles?
[21:05:28] <EazyCheez> though the music is normal speed
[21:06:43] <Dominus> no clue
[21:07:00] <Dominus> I can send it to you
[21:07:04] <Dominus> dcc or mail?
[21:07:11] <EazyCheez> dcc is fine :)
[21:07:56] <EazyCheez> wow
[21:07:59] <EazyCheez> sorta slow :)
[21:08:15] <Dominus> yae
[21:08:41] <Dominus> where are you from again?
[21:08:53] <EazyCheez> Pensacola Florida USA
[21:09:42] <Dominus> well my best should be around 12 KB...
[21:10:46] <Dominus> this is not the installer version
[21:11:04] <Dominus> just let it extract to your exult dir
[21:11:27] <EazyCheez> and it should have the extra MIDI Conversion option?
[21:11:41] <Dominus> manually in exult.cfg
[21:12:01] <EazyCheez> ahh k
[21:12:19] <EazyCheez> will this screw up my daily snapshot updates? :)
[21:12:21] <Dominus> actually it is already in the setup menu at the satrt of Exult
[21:12:40] <Dominus> start I meant
[21:13:14] <Dominus> It won't screw it up but daily snapshots will screw the "Digital Music" support up
[21:13:39] <Dominus> As it will only work with the version I sent you :-)
[21:13:59] <Dominus> newer snapshots won't have support for it
[21:14:02] <EazyCheez> hmmm
[21:14:15] <EazyCheez> doesn't work fully it seems
[21:14:19] <EazyCheez> needs more work
[21:14:27] <Dominus> ?
[21:14:30] <Dominus> how so?
[21:14:47] <EazyCheez> when I go around or in the fellowship hall, for example, the music starts up, then stops after about a second
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[21:16:30] <Dominus> works for me
[21:16:35] <Dominus> BUT
[21:16:45] <Dominus> when Exult is not the focus the music stops
[21:17:04] <EazyCheez> hmm
[21:17:14] <EazyCheez> it has to be the focus since the mouse works in it
[21:18:20] <Dominus> well, it is in alpha stage, so no more complaints :-)
[21:18:36] <Dominus> I have to go hunt for something to eat :-)
[21:18:40] <Dominus> see you later
[21:18:46] --- Dominus is now known as Dominus|away
[21:18:56] <matto> no more complaints!
[21:19:06] * Darke complains.
[21:19:34] --- Dominus|away takes channel operator status from Darke
[21:19:34] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Darke
[21:20:06] * Darke looks innocent.
[21:21:06] * matto strips Darke of his exult developer status
[21:22:16] * Darke isn't really worried, he's currently working on pentagram code at the moment anyway. *grin*
[21:24:52] --- Dominus|away is now known as Dominus
[21:44:42] <Dominus> back
[22:07:01] <-- wjp has left IRC (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: _wjp!~wjp@ip503c5297.speed.planet.nl)))
[22:07:10] --> wjp has joined #exult
[22:07:10] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[22:10:59] <Fingolfin> wjp: wat heet "lernen" op Nederlands?
[22:11:39] * Dominus thinks that wjp is busy playing :-)
[22:12:01] <Fingolfin> Dominus: ah but I gotta try it :-) right now he's my only possible victim
[22:12:32] <Fingolfin> or do you speak dutch by chance? I mean I could of course look it up on the net (or finally get around to buy a dictionary, which I will do anyway of course)
[22:12:55] <Fingolfin> but torturing a native speaker with my vain attempts to speak his language is just much more fun <g>
[22:12:56] <Dominus> ah, forgot, you are son "moving" there
[22:13:02] <Dominus> soo, I mean
[22:13:08] <Dominus> uargh,
[22:13:08] <Fingolfin> soo? :-)
[22:13:11] <Dominus> soon
[22:13:25] <Fingolfin> hehehe
[22:17:02] <Fingolfin> hey woa!
[22:17:18] * Fingolfin just discovered he *does* have a dutch-german dictionary
[22:17:30] <Dominus> he he
[22:17:37] <Fingolfin> and a french one, woohho. just found this stack of a dozen dictionaries
[22:17:38] <Fingolfin> hm
[22:17:49] <Fingolfin> old greek; latin; hungarian; italaian;
[22:18:21] <Fingolfin> serbo kroatian; yet another french; spanish; more latin/greek
[22:19:03] <Fingolfin> seems "lernen" = leren <g>
[22:25:05] --> wjp_ has joined #exult
[22:25:05] <-- wjp has left IRC (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
[22:25:12] --- wjp_ is now known as wjp
[22:25:20] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to wjp
[22:28:01] <wjp> *sigh*... still didn't find that crescent-shaped-thingie
[22:28:24] <Dominus> it's not that easy to find :-)
[22:28:41] * wjp has his suspicions on where it is
[22:29:11] <wjp> but I'll have to figure out why some stone pillar keeps "rejecting" me, to find out if I'm right
[22:30:08] <wjp> (in the spirit city, btw)
[22:30:19] <wjp> but don't say anything :-)
[22:31:07] <Fingolfin> "anything" :-)
[22:31:16] * wjp will have to kick fingolfin now :-)
[22:31:22] <Fingolfin> aaaregh
[22:31:33] <Fingolfin> a poor non-op like me, being kicked? how cruel!
[22:31:38] <Fingolfin> <sniff, sob>
[22:31:46] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Fingolfin
[22:31:47] <Dominus> he he I never figured out the stone pillars thing on my own
[22:31:50] <Fingolfin> now you can kick me :-)
[22:32:01] <Fingolfin> what game is that? Geneforge still?
[22:32:05] <wjp> yeah
[22:32:19] <wjp> I only play a couple of hours each weekend, so it isn't going really fast :-)
[22:33:34] <Fingolfin> sure thing
[22:33:59] <wjp> I still need to figure out that "stone circle" near the start, too
[22:34:10] <wjp> (the place where you get that "bone baton")
[22:34:22] <wjp> ...and the power station
[22:34:40] <wjp> ...and the spirit city
[22:36:13] <matto> wjp! Fingolfin!
[22:36:17] <wjp> matto!
[22:36:50] <Fingolfin> matto!!!!
[22:36:56] <matto> how are things?
[22:37:17] <Fingolfin> wjp: seems as if I better stay faaar away from GeneForge :-) Or I have even less time for anything
[22:37:31] <wjp> Fingolfin: indeed :-)
[22:37:54] <wjp> somehow I'm spending less time on it than on Avernum, though
[22:38:51] <matto> what's geneforge? another project?
[22:39:01] <wjp> nah, a game by spiderweb
[22:39:12] <matto> oh
[22:47:16] * Fingolfin is currentl reading WoT 6
[22:47:22] <Fingolfin> (Lord of Chaos)
[22:49:01] <matto> re-reading?
[22:50:26] <Fingolfin> nah, first time for me
[22:50:32] <Fingolfin> I started reading WoT not that long ago
[22:50:53] <Fingolfin> but I like it a lot so far :-) just have to make sure I get #7 in time once this is finished <g>
[22:54:48] <matto> I thought book 9 was pretty decent
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[23:01:50] <matto> cnj!!!!
[23:47:38] <-- cnj has left IRC (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
[23:50:47] <Darke> Now look what you did matto, you knocked him off! You should be careful how you throw those exclamation marks around, else you'll hurt someone else.