#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 27 Aug 2006 (GMT)

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[00:01:54] <servus> I'm looking for the right version :)
[00:03:12] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[00:03:18] <wizardrydragon> Well thank you :)
[00:12:40] <wizardrydragon> Oooh
[00:12:45] <wizardrydragon> I mustve killed phpBB ghood
[00:13:03] <wizardrydragon> It's throwing message_die() around like popcorn :)
[00:15:28] <Dominus> i'm off to bed
[00:15:29] <Dominus> bye
[00:15:31] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("oh no! not again")
[00:20:19] <wizardrydragon> It's giving a new error message now, I suppose that's progress :)
[00:27:18] <servus> OK, sent it and a sample map.
[00:29:38] <wizardrydragon> Thank you :)
[00:30:18] <wjp> in bed... I wish :-)
[00:30:33] * wjp just spent 30 minutes walking home from the train station after 2am
[00:31:04] <servus> Left your moonstone at home?
[00:31:56] <wizardrydragon> LOL
[00:32:26] <wjp> yeah, I dashed through the red gate without remembering to bring it
[00:32:56] <servus> Catcalls, screams.
[00:33:30] * SB-X steals a mysterious tome.
[00:33:46] <wizardrydragon> tehehe
[00:34:00] * servus sleeps with a moonstone in hand and drops it in the most interesting dreamplace he can find.
[00:34:13] <wjp> catcalls, the dagger, a scream, Death...
[00:34:28] <servus> At least you know what I'm talking about : o)
[00:34:30] <wjp> Sandemonium. Shrieks of rage, of terror.
[00:34:37] <wjp> s/S/P/
[00:34:39] <wizardrydragon> Sandemonium? :D
[00:34:53] <servus> So, Exult3D in main branch?
[00:35:17] <wjp> "maybe"
[00:35:21] <wjp> how modular is the patch?
[00:35:44] <wjp> i.e., are there cleanup/modularization bits which aren't strictly exult3d but which prepare exult for it?
[00:35:56] <servus> 2 added files, ~10 modified, nothing changed outside of #ifdefs, and 2D not really bothered when Exult3D support is #defined into existance.
[00:36:00] <wjp> (which could be merged in before the actual main patch)
[00:36:30] <wjp> you mean the 2d/3d switch is a compile-time switch?
[00:36:40] <servus> All of the 3D-specific code is wrapped first in #ifdef then in Is3D() call (or whatever it was called. It's been a while :)
[00:36:40] <wizardrydragon> someone couldn't poke ExultBot into #TFL so TFL can have a channel when I'm not on could they? I wouldnt know who to ask about that
[00:36:48] <servus> No, it's compile-time and run-time both.
[00:36:57] <wjp> ok
[00:37:24] <wizardrydragon> Thank you kindly
[00:37:29] <SB-X> you can register a channel on freenode
[00:37:29] <servus> You have to compile it in, then choose the correct shader. There is a caveat that switching to 3D from the actual in-game menu crashes, but all these things would eb fixed before a merge : o)
[00:37:41] <servus> s/correct shader/correct scaler/g
[00:37:48] <wizardrydragon> SB-X: I did, but does it stay after I leave?
[00:38:06] <wizardrydragon> SB-X: And anyways, if someone could poke ExultBot over there, he/she/it keeps logs :D
[00:38:36] <-- exultbot has left IRC (shutting down)
[00:38:41] <-- exultbot has left IRC (shutting down)
[00:40:01] --> exultbot has joined #exult
[00:40:02] --- Topic for #exult is: The legends are true. Thus *is* the topic!
[00:40:02] --- Topic for #exult set by Colourless at Mon Jun 12 00:31:47 2006
[00:40:11] <SB-X> i dont know if the channel "disappears" when nobody is in it (other networks use a ChanServ user) but either way the channel settings are persistant
[00:40:20] <SB-X> nope
[00:40:34] <wizardrydragon> Here give me a sec, Ill get links :)
[00:40:40] <servus> I'm still trying to find out who is really the one to ask about 3D CVS integration. I haven't ever spoken to Dr. Code.
[00:40:40] <wjp> does TFL have a homepage?
[00:41:01] <wizardrydragon> www.u7feudallands.com but its gone poof right now.
[00:41:27] <wizardrydragon> You get the phpBB install page :P
[00:41:30] <SB-X> oh, freenode has a ChanServ user too, he's just not in #exult :P
[00:41:31] <wjp> is its poofness permanent? :-)
[00:41:40] <wizardrydragon> Nope, just until I get it to install properly
[00:42:23] --> Colourless has joined #Exult
[00:42:25] --- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Colourless
[00:42:41] <wjp> hi Colourless
[00:45:56] <servus> wjp: Should I track down Dr.Code about this?
[00:46:24] <wjp> maybe ask on the mailing list
[00:46:47] <wizardrydragon> Screenshot: http://sourceforge.net/dbimage.php?id=61607
[00:47:28] <wizardrydragon> Unfotrunately I need to nuke the TFL map I have going, but it's good concept art or something :P
[00:47:57] <wjp> I have a strange sense of deja-vu :-)
[00:48:02] <wizardrydragon> Hehe
[00:48:03] <servus> Cross-posting! Hiss!
[00:48:06] <wizardrydragon> LOL
[00:48:29] <wizardrydragon> Well Im lazy so laziness is an aspect of me youll have to deal with
[00:48:45] <wizardrydragon> Just be happy you're not Marzo and getting the stupid coding questions. ;)
[00:50:09] <servus> OK well when I'm perky enough for it, I will co head again and reintegrate 3D, add the extra camera functionality/lock-downs, force the menu to use a 2D scaler, and fix the crashes with changing to and from 3D from in-game. Then I'll see if I can get CVS write access.
[00:50:17] <servus> No time-frame given : o)
[00:50:22] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[00:50:26] <SB-X> thats a neat looking structure in that screenshot
[00:50:41] <wizardrydragon> I tried to hold myself to a time line ... it doesn't work.
[00:51:11] <Colourless> hiya
[00:51:56] <wizardrydragon> SB-X: That's part of one of the besieged cities in TFL.
[00:52:46] <servus> Hlocolourless.
[00:53:39] <SB-X> Abelderan sounds like Aldeberan
[00:56:19] <servus> The Abelderanese sound like a warring peoples!
[00:56:30] <wizardrydragon> Hehe.
[00:56:40] <wizardrydragon> It's a working name so don't take the name as final ;)
[01:03:58] <wizardrydragon> @servus: You'd be a warring people if you lived next door to demons too.
[01:16:30] <wizardrydragon> Quiet...
[02:40:24] <servus> Hm. What if I locked down the angle of the 3D camera (say, 15 degrees out from the avatar), and just let you rotate around, always keeping focused on the avatar, with a little circle-looking widget in the top-right of the screen?
[03:34:41] <wizardrydragon> Perhaps have a full 3D camera and an a fixed one, changable by a menu option? That's how THQ's Dawn of War handled it, and it's camera is one of the few 3D games that I find the camera bearable in
[03:37:01] <servus> Anything but a top-down view is nonfeasible, because the Exult engine is simply not capable of efficiently representing a superchunk at a time.
[03:39:25] <wizardrydragon> Perhaps render a fog when it's outside of viewing distance then as the Dungeon Siege engine does, for those of us familiar with Lazarus :)
[03:41:19] <servus> It is still too costly.
[03:41:27] <wizardrydragon> Hrm.
[03:42:19] <servus> Much of the scene representation code would have to be rewritten for efficiency of that sort.
[03:42:46] <wizardrydragon> It could work for a first person type view, which could be interesting, but it certainly would be an issue in a 3D third person view, for sure.
[03:42:51] <wizardrydragon> I
[03:43:25] <wizardrydragon> *I'm not very familiar with Exult's rendering code myself, so I speak out of ignorance there.
[03:44:25] <wizardrydragon> My area of experience with the Exult code is the music system, since my Exult side project has been to make the game much more open to added and entirely new scores.
[03:50:40] <SB-X> At one point Exult3D wasn't even trying to load any superchunks outside of the current one being viewd.
[03:50:43] <SB-X> viewed*
[03:50:50] <SB-X> why not make it do that again?
[03:51:55] <wizardrydragon> That was partially what I was suggesting: have it view just one superchunk, and have a "fog of war" effect or somesuch
[03:56:32] <servus> I don't remember that, SB-X. It should always show the same data as would be shown in the 2D client, though I upped the square "radius" for testing purposes.
[03:57:10] <SB-X> yeah, that is still less than a superchunk right?
[03:57:26] <servus> Certainly, but you can view sections of more than one superchunk at a time.
[03:57:33] <wizardrydragon> Hmm
[03:57:38] <SB-X> oh I didnt know that
[03:57:48] <wizardrydragon> Question out of ignorance
[03:57:51] <SB-X> well i suppose if two are in the current area
[03:57:56] <wizardrydragon> Do you make use of precaching at all?
[03:57:57] <Colourless> exult could view the entire map all at once, but would require more memory than any system currently has :-)
[03:57:58] <SB-X> one to four
[03:58:12] <Colourless> shouldn't be any specific limits as far as superchunks go
[03:58:41] <SB-X> but he makes it sound like what it currently views is more than the 3d renderer can handle
[03:58:43] <wizardrydragon> If you can precache models that are used frequently, then it should make the game go faster.
[03:59:05] <wizardrydragon> Assuming of course you're not already doing that.
[04:00:01] * Baastuul defenestrates SB-X!
[04:01:33] <SB-X> WHY ME?
[04:01:43] <Colourless> cos your there?
[04:01:47] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[04:01:52] <servus> sin your there.
[04:02:03] <SB-X> ...
[04:03:30] <wizardrydragon> @servus: Do you make use of precaching in Exult3D?
[04:03:42] <servus> Yes.
[04:04:01] <wizardrydragon> With building geometry too, or just models?
[04:04:18] <servus> That's kind of a silly question though, because it has no context. If you mean, "do you load and build the models and textures for shape frames every frame they are viewed?" the answer is no.
[04:04:30] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[04:04:43] * SB-X goes off on a tan about Baastuul.
[04:05:22] <servus> OpenGL texture instances for "automatic cube" textures are cached. Display lists for 3D models are cached, as are the textures themselves. The renderer itself is not the slow part.
[04:05:37] <wizardrydragon> Say, not to go on too much of a tangeant, but how do you go about animation anyways?
[04:05:44] <Baastuul> I read "precaching" as "preaching" and imagined the possibility of evangelists in Ultima 7.
[04:05:54] <SB-X> hehe
[04:06:07] <wizardrydragon> You obviously haven't run into the Fellowship.
[04:06:15] <servus> Much of the slowness is due to how Exult handles timing, and would require a lot of changes to very low-level code, which could potentially break lots of little things you'd never suspect.
[04:06:28] <SB-X> Baastuul: theres already npc animation for worship
[04:06:28] <wizardrydragon> Oh that's the best kind of changes.
[04:06:47] <wizardrydragon> How so though, regarding timing?
[04:07:12] <servus> Ask anyone on the dev team, I'm going to go rest my eyes :)
[04:07:17] <SB-X> wait
[04:07:18] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[04:07:24] <SB-X> http://sammatthews.com/images/Exult3D/
[04:07:42] <SB-X> your not showing anymore than that are you?
[04:07:49] <SB-X> than in those screenshots
[04:07:51] <SB-X> you're*
[04:08:06] <wizardrydragon> Well I'm not much into 3D programming, but my roommate happens to do a lot of that kind of stuff so I may be able to bug them into helping ;)
[04:08:17] <SB-X> why does dropping the camera down any more slow it down
[04:08:44] <SB-X> that's what I was getting at
[04:09:16] <servus> When you start looking straight ahead, and not top-down, you have a lot more terrain that is potentially visible, because you are looking toward the horizon. All of those chunks then have to be cached in, updated, and rendered.
[04:09:41] <SB-X> even if they arent visible?
[04:09:46] <servus> Just think of simple bugs like activating Stefan in Spinecrusher when your resolution is a bit too high, then multiply that by a hundred.
[04:09:56] <SB-X> oh, righgt
[04:10:00] <SB-X> right*
[04:10:04] <SB-X> i should've thought of that
[04:10:09] <servus> Exult has no way to do occlusion checking on that level, and to do so would take a lot more work than might be readily apparent.
[04:10:33] <servus> It's certainly "possible", but the amount of work that is actually entailed quickly becomes apparent.
[04:10:34] <wizardrydragon> Lol, it's always more than you think.
[04:10:53] <wizardrydragon> Just look swhat I got myself into with TFL :)
[04:11:12] <servus> Also, you have to animate and run AI on everything that's visible, or if you freeze things outside of a small scope, other things will break.
[04:11:55] <wizardrydragon> Hmm
[04:12:25] <wizardrydragon> By top down do you mean as in Exult's current camera, or literally, top down
[04:14:36] <servus> 15 degrees from being straight down, centered on the avatar.
[04:14:58] <wizardrydragon> That's not too bad in any event
[04:16:59] <wizardrydragon> Ill poke around in Exult's rendering code and related bits tomorrow and see if I see anything myself that can be done to improve them
[04:18:57] <Baastuul> Nonsense! The code is perfect! There is absolutely nothing wrong with the code! To tamper with the code is to tempt the gods into destroying the world! The world!
[04:19:13] * Baastuul gesticulates wildly to emphasize the direness of the situation.
[04:19:38] * SB-X stuffs a HAM into Baastuul's hamhole.
[04:19:42] * wizardrydragon eviscerates Baastul.
[04:20:15] * Baastuul chokes on the ham and topples over, then spills out the contents of his ham-stuffed bowels due to wizardrydragon's sudden and cruel evisceration.
[04:21:02] <wizardrydragon> Don't meddle in the affairs of dragons, for they are quick to anger and have a +25 to hit bonus.
[04:21:05] <SB-X> yeah that was pretty cruel of him
[04:21:10] <SB-X> hehe
[04:21:47] <SB-X> wizardrydragon: what is your source for that data?!
[04:22:05] <wizardrydragon> SB-X: What data?
[04:22:46] <Zerothis> hey, is the admin of feudallands DOT com here?
[04:22:50] <SB-X> +25 to hit
[04:23:21] <Baastuul> No offense intended, wizardrydragon, but when you just made that comment about the dragons there, I had a mental image of the stereotypical Dungeons & Dragons geek snivelling loudly while chortling and guffawing with great enthusiasm at his own seemingly witty remarks requiring knowledge of multiple references in order to understand the humor!
[04:23:36] <wizardrydragon> LOL
[04:23:57] <servus> http://www.mandys-web.de/images/Simpsons/Comicbookguy.jpg
[04:24:00] <wizardrydragon> I've played some pen and paper RPGs, but not much DnD
[04:24:29] <Baastuul> I am reminded more of Nerdshoe, servus.
[04:24:38] <Baastuul> Comic Book Guy works pretty well, too, though.
[04:24:44] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[04:24:54] <SB-X> http://uploads.ungrounded.net/content.php?id=90046&name=90046_8bitDandD.swf&title=8%20Bit%20D%26D&date=1156651200&quality=b&uj=0&w=550&h=400
[04:25:09] <wizardrydragon> I love that film
[04:25:13] <Baastuul> If you do not know who Nerdshoe is, here is one of the Nerdshoe toons: http://www.somethingawful.com/firemancomics/consolewar.htm
[04:25:43] <SB-X> Best. Flash. Ever.
[04:26:34] <Baastuul> You will even note the reference to Richard Garriott in this Flash!
[04:26:46] <wizardrydragon> Zerothis: www.u7feudallands.com has gone poof temporarily
[04:26:50] <SB-X> all of your video links are unwatchable
[04:27:19] <Baastuul> Whose, mine?
[04:27:25] <SB-X> yes
[04:27:36] <SB-X> like it says below the flash animation
[04:27:36] <Baastuul> They are unwatchable because you don't have eyes.
[04:27:52] <SB-X> then how did i read the words?
[04:28:17] <Baastuul> You have a Braille monitor, I guess.
[04:28:46] <SB-X> NO I have eyes to see.
[04:28:51] <wizardrydragon> Perhaps his computer is directly hooked up to his brain
[04:28:57] <SB-X> someday
[04:29:04] <SB-X> but not today
[04:29:31] <SB-X> I'm just saying Baastuul's videos are always Something Awful or similiear.
[04:29:53] <Baastuul> I think this is the first time I've ever linked to a Something Awful video, SB-X.
[04:29:57] <Baastuul> In this channel, anyway.
[04:30:03] <SB-X> true
[04:30:05] <Baastuul> I typically link to Fat-Pie animations.
[04:30:10] <SB-X> well
[04:30:13] <SB-X> they're worse
[04:30:14] <wizardrydragon> At least its not ebaumsworld :P
[04:30:21] <SB-X> hehe
[04:30:41] <Baastuul> Ebaumsworld has a diverse collection of videos, wizardrydragon. A lot of them are lousy, but many of them are good. A great many more of them are simply mediocre.
[04:30:51] <SB-X> they have games too
[04:31:06] <Baastuul> I only watch the videos there, I have to admit, but I do not go there often.
[04:31:19] <SB-X> I played Tetris there once.
[04:31:49] <wizardrydragon> Let us just say Im not a fan
[04:32:26] <Baastuul> Why, did you wind up being in one of their videos of people caught on video doing something SILLEIGH?
[04:33:10] <wizardrydragon> Most of them are just kind of stupid
[04:35:36] <SB-X> Baastuul: how old is that video?
[04:35:38] <Baastuul> You do something peculiar which a previous member of the channel did, wizardrydragon. You seem to not use apostrophes in your contractions.
[04:35:43] <Baastuul> SB-X, a few years, I believe.
[04:35:46] <Baastuul> Or a couple.
[04:36:32] <wizardrydragon> Oh. I usually do, but I suppose I am being lazy tonight.
[04:36:49] <SB-X> hehe the powerglove
[04:37:12] <Baastuul> It was not a criticism, but an observation. The other person has not been in the channel for a while. I was wondering if there was some devil trickery going on where you were that person.
[04:37:52] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[04:37:58] <wizardrydragon> You shall never know.
[04:38:19] <wizardrydragon> Personally though, I try to avoid them where I can help it, I just get lazy sometimes and use them.
[04:38:29] <Baastuul> "Them" referring to apostrophes?
[04:38:40] <Baastuul> The latter "them" I mean.
[04:38:56] <Baastuul> Does the former "them" refer to contractions?
[04:39:09] <Baastuul> I demand clarification!
[04:39:29] <wizardrydragon> Contractions, my clarification challenged friend.
[04:39:36] <SB-X> Baastuul: OK I watched the console wars video and stand by my statement that it is unwatchable. ;) (what's with the flying objects? why did they bother?)
[04:40:20] <Baastuul> I enjoy the Nerdshoe videos.
[04:40:23] <SB-X> the thing about the dreamcast was funny
[04:40:30] <Baastuul> Except for the newest one.
[04:41:05] <wizardrydragon> Have either of you two seen the 8-Bit Theater flash animations on Newgrounds?
[04:41:49] <Baastuul> I think I might have seen one. The name is familiar to me, but I don't really delve too deeply into Newgrounds.
[04:42:05] <SB-X> I just linked to one.
[04:42:17] <SB-X> pasted a link here
[04:42:20] <Baastuul> (Which sounds kind of like I am saying I don't delve too deeply into new ground, or unfamiliar territory, or break out of my comfort zone. Which is actually frighteningly true.)
[04:42:34] <wizardrydragon> That was the DnD one though, was it not?
[04:42:39] <SB-X> yes
[04:42:44] <SB-X> i didnt see others
[04:42:46] <wizardrydragon> I didn't click the link so I don't know.
[04:42:56] <SB-X> any others, maybe one other
[04:42:57] <Baastuul> Ah, there are the delicious apostrophes.
[04:43:04] <wizardrydragon> Delicious?
[04:43:06] <SB-X> didn't*
[04:43:16] <Baastuul> Yes, delicious.
[04:43:24] * Baastuul smacks his lips as he savors the delectable flavor of the apostrophes.
[04:43:25] <wizardrydragon> That is not an adjective I hear used often in relation to punctuation marks.
[04:44:06] <Baastuul> I would wager a guess and say you never do.
[04:44:08] <Baastuul> :(
[04:44:14] <Baastuul> Except for tonight!
[04:44:20] <Baastuul> Tonight, my friend, we have broke new ground.
[04:44:28] <SB-X> Baastuul eats vocabulary and grammar too.
[04:44:52] <SB-X> Baastuul is laterally perspicacious.
[04:45:24] <wizardrydragon> I'd say I think outside the box but I'm afraid there is no box as I set it aflame.
[04:45:41] <Baastuul> Thank you, SB-X. Your words are too kind.
[04:46:10] <wizardrydragon> Is there such a thing?
[04:46:16] <Baastuul> Such a thing as what?
[04:46:17] <SB-X> You're welcome, milord Baastuul.
[04:46:44] <wizardrydragon> Something which is too kind, such as you likened SB-X's words to.
[04:47:06] <Baastuul> Yes.
[04:47:40] <SB-X> You can have too much ham.
[04:47:57] <wizardrydragon> Blasphemy!
[04:48:06] <wizardrydragon> There is no such thing as too much ham.
[04:48:25] <Baastuul> I actually do not really like ham. I enjoy saying the word "ham," but I don't actually enjoy eating it. It's too salty and I don't much care for the texture. I like the actual ham roast a bit, but lunchmeat ham is vile to me.
[04:49:40] <wizardrydragon> Lunchmeat ham is to ham as leet-speak is to intelligent discussion.
[04:51:53] <Baastuul> That analogy is a little bit messed up. Leet-speak doesn't equate to a discussion at all, it's just a medium for communication which may lead to a discussion, just as is any language! You wouldn't say "English is intelligent discussion," unless you were perhaps discussing English! A better analogy would be "lunchmeat ham is to ham as leet-speak is to an acceptable medium for intelligent discussion"!
[04:52:55] <wizardrydragon> Ah but that is mere semantics, the importasnt thing is the intent of the words was understood.
[04:53:22] <SB-X> I agree, lunchmeat ham isn't very good.
[04:53:34] <wizardrydragon> *important
[04:53:53] <wizardrydragon> Wow, my typing is particularly atrocious tonight.
[04:54:49] <Baastuul> Yeah, I know, but I like to be an anal-retentive picker-aparter of words!
[04:55:01] <wizardrydragon> "Picker-aparter?"
[04:55:07] <Baastuul> Yup.
[04:55:19] <wizardrydragon> Perhaps a better term would be a perfectionist of language.
[04:55:25] <Baastuul> Maybe "pick-aparterer" would be better.
[04:55:44] <Baastuul> Professional Pick-aparterer!
[04:55:46] <Baastuul> Apartheid.
[04:56:36] <wizardrydragon> I don't see how Apartheid as a concept makes sense in the context.
[04:56:47] <Baastuul> In the context of this conversation?
[04:57:16] <wizardrydragon> Yes that was the statement.
[04:57:52] <Baastuul> I wasn't sure if you meant in the context of something else. I only said the word because "aparterer" reminded me of "apartheid"!
[04:58:05] <SB-X> I assumed you were just savoring the word like a fine wine.
[04:58:19] <Baastuul> Like a veritable sybarite, my friend.
[04:58:50] <SB-X> google's definition search is convenient
[04:59:20] <SB-X> pick-apart apartheid
[05:00:16] <wizardrydragon> Google in and of itself is convinence.
[05:08:01] <Baastuul> I am Vald÷r, leader of the Woodland Elves!
[05:08:21] * Baastuul prances merrily and gaily throughout the channel sprinkling fairy dust, his silken robes billowing in the gentle breeze as he laughs mirthfully!
[05:08:56] <servus> Don't let your mom see these logs.
[05:09:18] <Baastuul> Ah-haw-haw-haw-haw! You are ever the court jester, my friend!
[05:09:35] * Baastuul laughs ever on, unceasing in his cacchinations!
[05:10:13] <SB-X> Is "ah-haw-haw-haw-haw" a valid move in The Game?
[05:10:25] * wizardrydragon simply watches, popcorn in hand and a smirk on his face.
[05:10:26] <Baastuul> A good question!
[05:10:48] <Baastuul> Wizar, Dry Dragon!
[05:11:34] <wizardrydragon> A rogue punctuation mark seems to have perforated your thoughts, friend.
[05:12:01] <Baastuul> Nonsense! I put it there! Are you not Wizar the Dry Dragon?
[05:12:55] * wizardrydragon waves his hand. "These aren't the dragons your looking for."
[05:13:07] <Baastuul> wizardrydragon, what is your opinion about Estonian politics!
[05:13:31] <wizardrydragon> My opinion is that I do not have an opinion.
[05:14:08] <Baastuul> Wouldn't your "opinion" about you not having an opinion be a fact more than an opinion?
[05:14:30] * Baastuul strokes his grizzled chin as he ponders the semantics.
[05:14:42] <wizardrydragon> Perhaps it is transcendent from it's normal purpose, but if it is then I am ignorant of such lofty heights being achieved.
[05:15:30] * Baastuul shrieks with rage as he casts aside your sentence, knocking it over the feast table and down to the floor for the dogs to fight over!
[05:15:42] <Baastuul> Your continual usage of undefined pronouns wrecks any and all meaning which you wish to convey!
[05:15:51] * Baastuul hollers and bellows loudly, wailing as if in pain and anguish!
[05:16:08] <wizardrydragon> Definition is subjective to perspective.
[05:16:34] <Baastuul> Are you a roving jukebox of clichÚs and one-liners or something?
[05:17:01] <SB-X> Touche!
[05:17:04] * Baastuul searches through your records for a copy of Louis Armstrong's "Hello, Dolly"!
[05:17:15] * Baastuul searches long and hard and, alas, in vain.
[05:17:22] <SB-X> TouchÚ!
[05:17:30] * Baastuul slumps down in the corner of the room a defeated man!
[05:17:35] <wizardrydragon> Not particularly. I just have had my mind polluted by philosophy class.
[05:18:12] <Baastuul> I had a philosophy class from May 17 to June 23. I thought it was rather interestŘng!
[05:18:36] <SB-X> Baastuul: But you didn't find it interesting?
[05:18:41] <servus> Underwater medieval feminist basketweaving for extreme ironing... 101.
[05:19:00] <wizardrydragon> You say it was extreme, but was it truly?
[05:19:15] <wizardrydragon> Everything is "extreme" these days.
[05:19:17] <Baastuul> No! It was merely interestŘng, and possibly interestˇnga.
[05:19:23] <servus> If you say that again about ironing, I am petitioning for your k-line.
[05:19:42] <wizardrydragon> TouchÚ
[05:20:29] <SB-X> clichÚs
[05:20:29] <Baastuul> wizardrydragon, what is your opinion of the Icelandic music scene!
[05:22:14] <wizardrydragon> I am afraid I am not very enlightened as to the status of the Icelandic music scene.
[05:22:34] <servus> Sic'im, Baastuul.
[05:23:00] <Baastuul> :O
[05:23:45] * Baastuul clutches his bosom and topples over, his bathykolpian physique slightly cushioning his fall.
[05:24:34] * SB-X props Baastuul up on a nearby chair.
[05:25:05] <wizardrydragon> It's a travesty, I assure you I am aware.
[05:25:34] * Baastuul fans himself with a rolled up piece of paper as he sweats profusely, anxiety evident in his worn face!
[05:25:40] <Baastuul> Aware of what?
[05:26:21] * Baastuul is eating a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
[05:27:08] <wizardrydragon> The fact that it is a travestry, it, as I am sure you would point out requiring qualification being the fact that I am not very enlightened on the status of the Icelandic music scene.
[05:27:20] <Baastuul> Ah, right, that's what I was thinking!
[05:27:22] <SB-X> Do the Dew, Baastuul.
[05:27:36] <Baastuul> I have some Mountain Dew in the fridge and in the pantry.
[05:28:03] <wizardrydragon> You have a pantry?
[05:28:38] <Baastuul> Yeah, I guess so. That's just what I call it. It's a tiny little room in the kitchen with shelves and a light, and we use it to store stuff.
[05:28:55] <Baastuul> Oftentimes food that does not require refrigeration!
[05:29:03] <servus> Ours does not have a light. You must be very wealthy.
[05:29:55] <wizardrydragon> Mine is simply a non-descript box. You make me envious.
[05:30:05] <SB-X> You have a box?!
[05:30:10] <SB-X> :S
[05:30:48] <wizardrydragon> Indeed.
[05:31:31] <wizardrydragon> It's cool inside but it doesn't have illumination. I have heard that some people crudely refer to it as a "beer fridge" however I'm not sure what this "beer" object is.
[05:31:52] * Baastuul props his feet up on his solid oak desk as he guffaws audibly, gloating with much schadenfreude at servus's miserable non-illuminated pantry!
[05:34:01] <Colourless> wizardrydragon, how does the current conversation relate to your comment from yesterday of:
[05:34:02] <Colourless> [21:30:27] * wizardrydragon sees the Exult IRC channel is just the usual barrel of fun it always was.
[05:35:00] <wizardrydragon> That was yesterday? I suppose it was now wasn't it?
[05:35:09] <wizardrydragon> I need to sleep at more normal times :P
[05:35:37] <servus> My icebox doesn't light up either.
[05:35:38] <Baastuul> Describe for the members of the channel your typical sleeping habits!
[05:35:49] * Baastuul paces left and right like a seasoned prosecutor cross-examining a witness.
[05:35:59] <Colourless> normal *gasp* *shock* *horror*
[05:36:18] <servus> Colourless: You should recall that the first thing wizardrydragon did upon coming here was threaten, belittle, and taunt the denizens of this quiet, quiet, happy channel for not talking. It was a very unwelcome comment!
[05:36:29] <Colourless> i know!
[05:36:30] <wizardrydragon> I don't believe typical is an adjective that can be used in the context of my habits of sleep, or lack thereof.
[05:37:29] <Baastuul> I was using "typical" in the sense of your average schedule of sleeping! Do not make us call into question your reading comprehension skills!
[05:37:33] <Colourless> i live with my girlfriend who has a little person... its impossible to not have 'normal' sleeping patterns :-(
[05:37:45] <wizardrydragon> Hah!
[05:38:23] <wizardrydragon> Well, the intended meaning of my words was that I do not believe I have a schedule of sleep, let alone something typical, or as the word typical infers "average".
[05:38:27] <Baastuul> How old is this homunculus with whom you reside, Colourless?
[05:38:42] <servus> wjp: If you change the logs character encoding to ISO-8859-1, Umlautes and stuff will show up correctly.
[05:38:44] <Colourless> 5!
[05:38:47] <Baastuul> :-O
[05:39:28] <wizardrydragon> I "typically" fall asleep when my body ceases to have the energy to function. As a programmer, I was under the misconception that this was something that the human body could withstand, although I have been told this is incorrect by my physician.
[05:39:28] <servus> wjp: Adding this to the logs' <head> section would do the trick: <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1">
[05:42:00] <wizardrydragon> Damn it all to hell! Exultstudio keeps corrupting my u7chunks file.
[05:42:04] <Colourless> hmm yeah setting firefox to use ISO-8859-1 makes it show properly
[05:42:10] <wizardrydragon> Even when I'm not editing it!
[05:42:53] <Baastuul> It's a bad influence, I told you so! Exult Studio with its fingernail polish and its mohawk and its motorcycle! I told you there'd be trouble letting your sweet little Chunk mingle with that rabble!
[05:43:09] <servus> Colourless: That's because it's correct, and UTF-8 isn't!
[05:43:16] <Colourless> :-)
[05:43:23] <wizardrydragon> Lol!
[05:43:25] * servus giggles like a mad ogre and clubs Baastuul over the head with a railroad tie.
[05:44:02] * Baastuul topples over unconscious!
[05:44:18] <Colourless> oh, don't ask me about exultstudio problems. I KNOW NOTHING
[05:44:40] <servus> NOTHING!
[05:44:51] <servus> I've never even gotten ExultStudio to work at all.
[05:45:23] <servus> It pops up and all, and draws gridlines in Exult, but you can't edit anything, or pull up any lists of chunks or tiles or anything like that... neither in Windows nor Linux.
[05:45:28] <wizardrydragon> Neither do I.
[05:46:04] <wizardrydragon> I like the gridlines though I do have to say. They're quite the feat of programming prowess.
[05:46:26] <Colourless> i'm sure it was in exult
[05:47:10] <wizardrydragon> On a more serious note, Exult Studio seems to be having massive problems with chunks since Jeff added in minimap rendering support.
[05:47:17] <wizardrydragon> I wonder what Jeff broke this time ;)
[05:47:33] <Baastuul> I like the look of the Bretonian language.
[05:47:35] <Baastuul> "Dres evel an holl yezho¨ altaek pe c'hoazh evel ar yezho¨ finnek-ougrek evel an estoneg pe an hungareg, an turkeg a zo anezha˝ ur yezh daspegel hep jener ebet hag ivez gant kensonerezh vogalennek."
[05:47:46] <Baastuul> It reminds me of Orcish, like how Turkish does.
[05:48:20] <wizardrydragon> Nothing will top the broken eggs though, just for the humour value that ensued from that.
[05:48:46] <wizardrydragon> Especially the underground goblins that were apparently secretly monks that made wine.
[05:48:58] <Baastuul> Ur soner eus Aostria e oa Gustav Mahler, bet ganet d'ar 7a viz Gouere 1860 ha marvet d'an 18 a viz Mae 1911. Daoust dezha˝ da veza˝ bet anavezet evel mestr laz-seni˝ eus ar re wella˝, ez eo brudet dreist-holl hiziv an deiz, evel ur sonaozer a bouez bras, e oberenno¨ o kas ar sonerezh eus dibenn an XIXvet kantvet trema ar c'houlz a vrema˝. Skrivet en deus dek simfonienn ha meur a rummad lieder, e o zouez Das Lied von der Erde.
[05:48:58] <Baastuul> :O
[05:49:56] <servus> Ah, Baastuul, dek ha me rummad zouez bet ganetze.... lek-sinios eus eo brudet Das Lied von kantvet trema!
[05:50:13] <Baastuul> Haha... E-pad e vloavezh kenta˝ e teuas e dud d'ober o annez e Jihlava, e-lec'h ma tremenas e vugaleaj. ;)
[05:50:31] <Baastuul> Servus, goude e genta˝ kevrat e Bad Hall, e tapas posto¨ en operao¨ pouezusoc'h-pouezusa˝?
[05:50:55] <servus> Kentano e teuas e dud o ma kevvi wizardry tapanas e gonti
[05:51:05] <SB-X> haha
[05:51:23] <Baastuul> :OOO
[05:51:25] <Baastuul> Kas a reas al laz-seni˝ e-pad ur prantad!
[05:51:28] <servus> Bad Hall? goude o kevras rummad alteanos c'moneu
[05:51:38] <Baastuul> :D
[05:51:41] <servus> prantad deukleuk!
[05:51:43] <servus> :))
[05:51:49] <Baastuul> Daoust dezha˝ beza˝ degemeret mat a-walc'h e bedervet simfonienn. ;D
[05:52:25] <servus> Ik mat ve gouded-en a-meur'res re e bedervetten simfoniennes.
[05:53:01] <Baastuul> :P
[05:53:18] <Baastuul> C'hwita˝ a reas an taol arnod-se, ar pezh a lakaas en e so˝j mont da vestr laz-seni˝ Big Hall. :P
[05:53:43] <servus> Bet ganet d'no wizard o sbx reas in~wareu pezh a res mon~r
[05:53:56] <Baastuul> haha
[05:54:10] <Baastuul> Bet savet er yuzeviezh SB-X. :P
[05:54:15] <servus> Big Hall? vloavezh kentan~ e leukedudenre res c'Daoust dezhanoeus
[05:54:27] <servus> Bet savet leukresse! :o)
[05:54:30] <Baastuul> :D
[05:55:01] <SB-X> I'm on to you.
[05:55:06] <Baastuul> Chom a reas dek vloaz e?
[05:55:10] <Baastuul> :o
[05:55:10] <servus> Den res e goeddugg! Serreu, non~e~
[05:55:28] <servus> nr chom a reas dek nires...
[05:55:56] <Baastuul> Ur gŕr m'ema˝ sez ur galloud politikel pe armerzhel enni war un takad, ur bastell-vro pe ur vro a zo anvet ur gŕr-benn... :/
[05:56:24] <servus> galloud... galloud... peh z'hron... Oh well, I never much liked the yankees anyway
[05:56:34] <Baastuul> Yeah, me neither.
[05:57:56] <wizardrydragon> "Yankees?"
[05:58:06] <Baastuul> ...yes?
[05:58:15] <wizardrydragon> What is a "Yankee"?
[05:58:24] <SB-X> the baseball team
[05:58:37] <servus> Yankees? res politikel pe armerzhe. Duh.
[05:59:01] <Baastuul> An guen heguen am louenas
[05:59:06] <Baastuul> An hegarat an lacat glas
[05:59:06] <wizardrydragon> Saywhatwiththewhoandthewhatatthewherenow?
[05:59:09] <Baastuul> ...
[05:59:17] <Baastuul> Aren't you an American, wizardrydragon?
[05:59:21] <Baastuul> Or at least a European?
[05:59:23] <wizardrydragon> No.
[05:59:27] <Baastuul> Australian? Canadian?
[05:59:37] <wizardrydragon> I am a bona fide, 100% genuine Canadian.
[05:59:49] <Baastuul> And you seriously don't know what a Yankee is?
[06:00:01] <wizardrydragon> Yes and know.
[06:00:03] <wizardrydragon> *No.
[06:00:07] <Baastuul> haha
[06:00:09] <wizardrydragon> Wow, my brain isn't working.
[06:00:28] <wizardrydragon> I know they're a baseball team, but was never sure what the term itself referred to.
[06:00:51] <Baastuul> Yeah, obviously, especially considering you don't know what a Yankee is. I mean, it's not just a baseball team, but it's, like, a slang term used to denote New Yorkers, New Englanders, and Americans in general!
[06:00:51] <servus> Yankee Doodle Dandy.
[06:01:08] <Baastuul> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yankee
[06:01:18] <wizardrydragon> I see.
[06:01:21] <SB-X> What is Armerzhel? What about Takad?
[06:01:30] <wizardrydragon> Ah Wikipedia what would we ever do without you.
[06:01:38] <Baastuul> Google things
[06:02:05] <wizardrydragon> Google may convienent but non can deny the allure of the shiny presentation that is Wikipedia
[06:04:07] <Baastuul> Where in Canada do you live?
[06:05:15] <wizardrydragon> Ottawa.
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[06:06:50] <Baastuul> What is your opinion about Bloc QuÚbÚcois!
[06:10:32] <wizardrydragon> Let Quebec seperate. I really couldn't care.
[06:10:43] <wizardrydragon> If that's what they want, why stop them? :P
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[10:12:09] <wjp> servus: there's no standard character encoding for IRC, as far as I know
[10:13:59] <wjp> but you're right it's probably likely most people here have it set to iso-8859-1
[10:20:00] <servus> I meant that ExultBot is saving it as ISO-8859-1 : o)
[10:20:15] <servus> (Apparently). It's also known as "Windows European"
[10:22:21] <wjp> uh, no, it's saving what it gets
[10:23:08] <wjp> it doesn't try to do any automatic character set detection
[10:23:32] <servus> Any which way, ISO-8859-1... Seems more correct? *Grin*
[10:24:07] <wjp> it's already set to that now, by the way :-)
[10:43:13] <servus> So you're just being mean to me! :o
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[18:19:47] <Baastuul> Hail to thee, fair adventurer who prances merrily in fields of tulips and dandelions and daisies pure!
[18:21:53] <Marzo> Hi there
[18:22:33] <Baastuul> Hello!
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[18:52:15] <wizardrydragon> ?log
[18:52:15] <exultbot> Logs are available at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php
[18:53:00] <Baastuul> How are you on this glorious day, wizardrydragon!
[18:56:05] <wizardrydragon> Elasted that the TFL forums are well on their way to getting fixed.
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[22:11:57] <SB-X> ??!
[22:17:03] <SB-X> hmm. my japanese text didnt send
[22:17:24] <wizardrydragon> It seems it didn't.
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[22:27:48] <SB-X> âoéęüI
[22:28:04] <SB-X> there
[22:28:22] <wizardrydragon> Indeed!
[22:28:23] <SB-X> wjp: the #exult logs aren't showing japanese text correctly!
[22:28:40] <wjp> well duh :-)
[22:29:07] <SB-X> hehe
[22:29:12] <SB-X> I just had to complain about it. :p
[22:30:02] <wjp> just for the record, who was that japanese targeted at? :-)
[22:30:31] <SB-X> exultbot
[22:30:43] <SB-X> but he cant read it!
[22:30:58] <wjp> that's because you're mixing katakana and hiragana; anyone would get confused :-)
[22:32:18] <SB-X> oh no
[22:33:10] <SB-X> i just copied the characters from a japanese page :p, guess i can't complain then
[22:34:23] <SB-X> but if you change page encoding to Shift_JIS it will display correctly
[22:34:41] <wjp> yeah
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