#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 27 Mar 2002 (GMT)

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[04:30:52] * Darke bowbounces. Hello all.
[04:57:33] <Soul|SERV> a
[04:57:33] <Soul|SERV> b
[04:57:35] <Soul|SERV> cdefg
[04:57:45] <Soul|SERV> typing ?s memstat is healthy
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[06:46:15] * Darke watches the forum commit hara-kiri.
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[08:39:35] <sb-x> ?date4
[08:39:35] <exultbot> It is now Wed Mar 27 08:39:35 2002 (GMT).
[08:39:52] <sb-x> ?s memstat
[08:39:53] <Soul|SERV> Memstat:  Usage: 234/768MB (30.47%)
[08:40:19] <sb-x> hmm
[08:41:09] <sb-x> hi
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[08:57:07] <sb-x> :(
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[09:03:22] <Darke> Hello again. <sigh> Power failure.
[09:04:52] <sb-x> heh
[09:05:03] <sb-x> I have that problem semi-frequently, moreso in the summer.
[09:05:25] * sb-x gives Darke a carrot.
[09:05:51] <Darke> Over the last two days, we've had three 5 minute long power failures. Just enough to stuff things up and cause maximum inconvenience, but not long enough to be enjoyable. <sigh>
[09:06:13] * Darke nibbles on the carrot. Thanks.
[09:08:02] <sb-x> I guess you need a UPS.
[09:08:49] <sb-x> hmm uh oh... I think I've been using strcat incorrectly
[09:09:29] <matto> sb-x: uh oh!
[09:09:32] * sb-x thinks this could be the source of many mysterious bugs.
[09:09:38] <sb-x> :O
[09:10:08] <sb-x> strcat(char *dest, const char *src)... dest needs to be allocated to the size of dest+src doesnt it?
[09:10:19] <matto> no
[09:10:22] <matto> err
[09:10:24] <matto> yes
[09:10:47] <matto> actually dest needs to be strlen(dest) + strlen(src) + 1
[09:10:51] <sb-x> i just read that in the man page
[09:10:55] <matto> you need to account for the null terminator
[09:10:59] * Darke has a ups, but unfortunately it doesn't have enough power to keep his machine, his netserver, his hub and cable modem up, for more then a few minutes.
[09:11:04] <sb-x> yeah by size i meant in memory length
[09:11:11] <matto> I know what you meant
[09:11:15] <sb-x> Darke: your ups needs a ups
[09:11:20] <sb-x> hmm
[09:11:28] <sb-x> all this time i have been assuming dest would be reallocated!
[09:11:43] <matto> it needs to be dest+src+1
[09:11:48] <Darke> sb-x: Nah, I just need to get a job and purchase a ups for my server/hub/modem.
[09:12:07] <sb-x> i've been using strcat freely with different size strings
[09:12:20] <matto> re-allocated? that would be an added convenience that would carry with it a heavy cost in speed
[09:12:38] <matto> you can use the STL string class if you want the luxury of never having to worry about space ...
[09:12:49] <sb-x> im talking about C
[09:13:01] <matto> what makes you think I don't know what you're talking about?
[09:13:15] <sb-x> do you?
[09:13:44] <matto> ... if you're talking about strcat, then yes
[09:13:51] <matto> if you have branched off to something else, then I missed it
[09:14:04] <sb-x> i have not
[09:14:15] <sb-x> but i feel like pulling my hair out at this mistake i've made
[09:15:29] <sb-x> i grep for strcat in my sources and make sure everything is fixed
[09:15:53] <matto> well I'll leave you to your hair pulling ...
[09:16:15] * sb-x pulls some of Darke's hair out.
[09:16:26] * matto pulls some of Darke's fluff out
[09:16:36] <matto> hmmm... looks and smells like bird fluf
[09:16:57] <sb-x> :\
[09:17:21] * Darke ouches, and wonders why everyone's pulling at him.
[09:17:51] * sb-x gives Darke back what he pulled out.
[09:18:20] <matto> sb-x: so are you unclear about what strlen does?
[09:19:07] <sb-x> no
[09:19:13] <matto> oh
[09:19:18] <sb-x> to my knowledge I always use that correct
[09:23:07] <sb-x> upon further inspection, it looks live i've used strcat properly in some places and improperly in others
[09:23:09] * sb-x boggles.
[09:30:38] <sb-x> upon further inspection, i actually only used strcat incorrectly once or twice
[09:30:47] * sb-x apologizes for taking everyone's time.
[09:31:38] <Darke> sb-x: Hmm... there doesn't appear to be anything else happening at this time, so I, at least, consider it somewhat of a welcome distraction. <grin>
[09:34:43] <sb-x> You may know this Darke. Is there any reason Exult does not use scalars in x86 assembly with MMX?
[09:36:14] <Darke> sb-x: Because it's a platform specific modification. IIRC, someone is considering doing it after version 1.0 comes out and is 'stable'.
[09:37:11] <sb-x> oh yeah
[09:37:34] <sb-x> Will Kreed do it?
[09:40:10] <Darke> I can't remember. Who ever wants to I presume. <grin> Look over the older logs, and you'll find at least one discussion about it I think.
[09:43:01] <sb-x> hmm
[09:44:26] <sb-x> is "scalar" the appropriate word?
[09:46:05] <Darke> Just do a search for 'assembler' or 'MMX' and you should find it. Yes, 'scalar' is the right word.
[09:46:22] <sb-x> alright
[09:46:37] <sb-x> when I did a search for scalar, i got 4 matches
[09:46:41] <sb-x> and they were all things that I said
[09:47:20] <sb-x> so I thought if I'm the only person here who ever used that word, maybe it is not the appropriate term :-)
[09:48:34] <sb-x> woo
[09:48:38] <sb-x> !
[09:48:39] <sb-x> <Nadir> I would like to try integrating Derek's MMX version of 2xSaI in Exult
[09:48:45] <Darke> Hmm... I think it's the appropriate term. Perhaps it's spelt incorrectly, either by you, or another. <grin>
[10:09:47] * sb-x yawns.
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[10:46:09] <Colourless> hi
[10:50:01] <Darke> Hi.
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[12:54:32] <Darke> Hmm... tonight seems to be the night of the netsplits. I suppose it's better then the Night of the Lepus.
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[13:53:07] <Colourless> gee it really is quite bad
[13:55:56] <Darke> Yep. Seven netsplits so far by my count. I wonder what's up? DDOS attack, or just a flaky server.
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[16:24:04] <Nadir> Darke: just popped in to say that "scalar" is NOT the right word
[16:24:18] <Nadir> Darke: "scaler" is the correct word
[16:24:24] <Nadir> :)
[16:24:32] * Nadir is being pedantic
[16:25:15] <Colourless> hi
[16:25:20] <matto> Nadir: yeah! :)
[16:25:45] <matto> scalar is like a vector but with no direction
[16:25:52] * Colourless wonders what Nadir is talking about
[16:33:29] <Nadir> Colourless: read today's logs
[16:33:32] <Nadir> gotta go
[16:33:33] <Nadir> bye
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[18:00:27] <wjp> hi
[18:05:35] <Colourless> hi
[18:10:28] <wjp> Colourless: last line in the last email you sent has both "also" and "too"
[18:11:01] * wjp would remove the "also"
[18:13:37] <Colourless> yeah, i agree
[18:43:11] <Colourless> time to go
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[18:57:20] <wjp> hi
[18:57:27] <artaxerxes> gentlemen
[18:57:29] <wjp> interesting crash location, btw
[18:58:11] <artaxerxes> hi willem... I hope the bt is of any help
[18:58:27] <artaxerxes> get text width....
[18:58:28] <wjp> it crashes while trying to determine the width of a space
[18:59:40] <artaxerxes> for some reason it doesn't crash at home
[18:59:50] <wjp> are you using the same font file?
[19:00:07] <artaxerxes> Normally yes. I can d-check though
[19:00:29] <artaxerxes> Otherwise you might need to know the normal text to appear is in ophidian font
[19:00:42] <artaxerxes> (that is the book I am trying to read)
[19:01:17] <wjp> did you modify the ophidian font?
[19:03:37] <artaxerxes> No.. I don't touch it at all... I am going to md5 both the home and the work fonts.vga to see if there is anything wrong. gimme 5 minutes
[19:03:58] <wjp> you probably should add the accented characters to the ophidian font
[19:04:06] <wjp> (but that won't have caused this crash)
[19:04:57] <artaxerxes> different md5 hash
[19:05:09] <artaxerxes> I'll give a try right away with the home version
[19:05:37] <wjp> AFAICT, the only reason why it would crash on that line is if it fails to load a font
[19:06:14] <artaxerxes> we wil know that in 2 minutes
[19:06:35] <artaxerxes> that was it
[19:06:41] <artaxerxes> wrong fonts.vga at work
[19:06:55] <wjp> do you still have the broken fonts.vga?
[19:09:06] * artaxerxes blushes....
[19:09:07] <artaxerxes> no
[19:09:19] <artaxerxes> but I think it was the one from BG_F
[19:09:47] <wjp> french black gate?
[19:10:52] <artaxerxes> hmmm after verifing, it seems it wasn't that either... Must have been some sort of bastardized version...
[19:11:07] <artaxerxes> which didn't have the ophidian characters
[19:11:19] <artaxerxes> bbs got a meeting with the boss
[19:11:21] <matto> J'ai une id?e geniale ? rajouter dans Exult. Pourquoi vous ne la rajoutez pas?
[19:12:05] <artaxerxes> ahh.. meeting in 5 mintues
[19:12:22] <artaxerxes> matto... envoye... go ahead
[19:12:40] <matto> artaxerxes: Une question meilleur, pourquoi ne l'ajoutez _vous_ pas?
[19:13:19] <artaxerxes> fais peter ton idee matto.... Tell me what is it!
[19:13:28] <matto> hehehe
[19:13:50] <matto> just kidding, artaxerxes
[19:14:10] <artaxerxes> peut pas t'aider si tu gardes ton idee geniale pour toi! Can't help you if you don't tell me what it is matto! :~
[19:14:30] <matto> thankyou for the English translation.. was my French really that bad?
[19:15:30] <artaxerxes> lack of use of the future tense for the word "ajouter"
[19:15:40] <artaxerxes> should have been "ajouteriez"
[19:15:48] <matto> dang!
[19:15:52] <artaxerxes> :)
[19:15:59] <matto> I had a French guy do this translation
[19:16:04] <matto> it's his mistake, not mine :)
[19:16:27] <matto> http://www.xmission.com/~redflame/daphne/faq_french.php#40
[19:16:29] <artaxerxes> (ajouteriez could actually be conditonal rather than future tense.. to check)
[19:16:36] <matto> I was just quoting from my FAQ, translated into French hehe
[19:16:41] <matto> (to pretend to speak French)
[19:16:43] <artaxerxes> :)
[19:16:51] <artaxerxes> I was almost fooled though! :)
[19:18:17] <matto> evidently he did not proofread his own translation
[19:18:37] <artaxerxes> it is acceptable in the spoken language... not really in the written language.
[19:23:55] * wjp really likes the intelligent-tab-completion in the RH73beta
[19:25:03] <wjp> it automatically picks directory names after 'cd', mount points after 'umount', usernames after 'finger', etc...
[19:25:22] <artaxerxes> bbl
[19:26:01] <wjp> k
[19:30:09] <artaxerxes> back
[19:30:15] <artaxerxes> sounds good
[19:30:28] <artaxerxes> I've always wondered why that didn't exist b4
[19:31:02] <wjp> I have a vague memory of it existing in IRIX, but I didn't know anything about unix back when I last used IRIX
[19:31:53] * artaxerxes warns everyone: my meeting w/ the boss will happen anytime soon so if I seem silent it is because I am away
[19:57:49] <artaxerxes> back
[19:58:10] <wjp> wb
[19:58:57] <artaxerxes> :)..
[19:59:15] * artaxerxes glad the 32 bit usecode works well
[19:59:19] * wjp too
[20:00:21] <artaxerxes> as said Jeff are there going to be a hack back on the engine so that the books act normally?
[20:01:03] <wjp> it would require merging a few book functions together
[20:02:07] <artaxerxes> and it would require a patch to the usecode if it were to be the only VM (the 32 bit one)
[20:02:44] <wjp> I was thinking something along the lines of automatically disabling the hack if the 'base' book function is 32 bit
[20:07:20] <artaxerxes> that should work
[20:08:18] <artaxerxes> (I guess)
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[20:09:26] <wjp> hi
[20:09:44] <Fingolfin> yo
[20:09:46] <Fingolfin> now, can anybody comment on this ? http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=532915&group_id=2335&atid=102335
[20:10:58] <artaxerxes> hey!
[20:11:48] * wjp bakes bread
[20:12:33] <wjp> 3...
[20:14:00] <wjp> 6...
[20:14:03] <wjp> still no crashes
[20:14:51] <Fingolfin> hm, should try here
[20:15:03] <wjp> 9...
[20:16:01] <Fingolfin> well, he writes "sometimes", so that alone doesn't prove anything - if he could provide a save game, maybe, and a way to produce it in 100% (or maybe 50%) of cases... hm
[20:16:20] <wjp> how did you typedef a function pointer type again? typedef (void * typename)(int, int, int) or something?
[20:17:55] <wjp> or was that void (*typename)(int, int, int) ?
[20:21:48] <wjp> brb
[20:23:52] <Fingolfin> the second one I think
[20:27:29] <artaxerxes> gotta go
[20:27:32] <artaxerxes> bye
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[20:47:58] <wjp> b
[20:58:06] <Fingolfin> wb
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[21:13:15] <radix> hey all
[21:13:20] <wjp> hi
[21:13:53] <radix> Hey, i'm trying to get my music working with timidity, but I'm not seeing anything about timidity use in the README etc, only in NEWS
[21:14:28] <wjp> it should Just Work(TM), if you have timidity installed
[21:14:58] <radix> hm. Well, timidity is working stand-alone, but when I play exult, I get the "Couldn't open audio: No available audio device" message.
[21:15:21] <wjp> what does the "compile-time options" line say in "exult -v" ?
[21:15:33] <radix> Compile-time options: HAVE_TIMIDITY_BIN, USE_EXULTSTUDIO, HAVE_ZIP_SUPPORT
[21:15:50] <radix> (i'm using the debian package.)
[21:16:08] <wjp> do you get any timidity messages when starting it?
[21:16:15] <wjp> (it == exult)
[21:16:44] <radix> Nope.
[21:16:44] <wjp> something like "Internal cheapass forked timidity synthesiser"?
[21:16:53] <radix> heh, nope
[21:17:50] <wjp> strange
[21:18:09] <radix> when I go into the game options, all the audio is disabled, I try enabling it, and after I return to the game it just gives me that error message in the console again.
[21:18:11] <radix> yah. :\
[21:18:40] <wjp> hm, wait a sec... that message could be an SDL error
[21:19:14] <radix> ugh. SDL has been annoying me audio-wise lately :)
[21:19:17] <radix> But I was at least hoping to get music working, since it uses timidity, and I know timidity works.
[21:20:00] <wjp> we don't use timidity to play the music; only to synthesize it
[21:20:09] <radix> *doh*
[21:20:41] <radix> well, I guess I'm gonna have to figure out how to fix my SDL audio, now. heh.
[21:21:24] <wjp> 'fraid so :/
[21:22:19] <radix> Well, I'm using debian's OSS SDL support package (even though I'm using ALSA), and I have no idea why it's not working. Stuff like XMMS, etc., all work
[21:22:26] <radix> Doesn't it just open up /dev/dsp?
[21:22:36] <wjp> not a clue
[21:23:00] * wjp never paid much attention to audio
[21:23:09] * radix snaps his fingers
[21:24:20] <radix> I wonder if SDL has a verbose mode where it'll tell me what actually went wrong.
[21:24:22] * radix searches.
[21:53:50] <radix> good news -- I got it working! I just had to set my "AUDIODEV" environment variable to /dev/dsp. :D
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[21:56:26] <wjp> great!
[21:56:37] <wjp> hi
[21:57:02] <Wumpus> 'lo
[21:57:07] * Wumpus is back :-)
[21:57:12] <Wumpus> excdept I think I've already said that once
[21:57:26] <wjp> I can grep the logs for you, if you want :-)
[21:57:48] <Wumpus> uhh, not paticularly :) but if it gives you pleasure :P
[21:58:23] <wjp> :-)
[21:59:00] * wjp is happy. He can break/continue usecode remotely now
[21:59:21] <wjp> (didn't actually write my own client... I just hijacked two of exult-studio's buttons :-) )
[21:59:53] <Wumpus> oooh :)
[22:00:01] * Wumpus hasn't tried exult on this box yet, hmm :)
[22:05:50] <Wumpus> uhh... surely exult's CVS has been changed since the 24th?
[22:06:06] <wjp> nope
[22:06:14] * Wumpus did an update just now and it seems to have not felt like doing anything... but I'm not certain the cvs is set up correctly...
[22:06:18] <Wumpus> ahh, okay... coolo :)
[22:06:28] <radix> hmm
[22:06:38] <wjp> we've been too busy answering an interview to do any coding ;-)
[22:06:46] <radix> what exactly do the docs mean by "data directory" when they're telling you where to unzip the SFX pack?
[22:06:50] <Wumpus> hehe
[22:07:00] * Wumpus has been more than a little out of touch :P
[22:07:20] <wjp> radix: the directory in which exult.flx, exultbg.flx, exultsi.flx are
[22:07:46] <wjp> uh, exult_bg.flx, exult_si.flx
[22:07:48] <Wumpus> hrmmmmmmmm
[22:07:57] <Wumpus> ./configure: line 652: syntax error near unexpected token `AM_INIT_AUTOMAKE($PACKAGE,$VERSION,no-define)'
[22:08:00] <radix> hrmmmmmmm
[22:08:04] <Wumpus> ?
[22:08:11] <wjp> Wumpus: do you have automake installed properly?
[22:08:14] <Wumpus> I take it I'm missing some prerequisite to do with autoconf? or automake or whatever
[22:08:14] <radix> wjp: the only flx file I seem to have is the one I just downloaded :(
[22:08:28] <wjp> if exult runs you also have the others :-)
[22:08:30] <Wumpus> I think so....
[22:08:37] <radix> wjp: hmmm
[22:08:45] <wjp> it should say "Data path = ...." when starting
[22:08:45] <radix> AHH
[22:08:46] <radix> ok
[22:09:00] <wjp> (or does it only do that in debugging mode?)
[22:09:01] <radix> I didn't know it was system-wide :)
[22:09:03] <Wumpus> Hmm, I have automake installed... dunno about properly :P It came out of a package :)
[22:09:11] <radix> wjp: indeed it says that
[22:09:15] <radix> it's /usr/share/exult/
[22:09:17] <Wumpus> ii automake 1.4-p4-1.1 A tool for generating GNU Standards-complian
[22:09:38] <radix> wjp: perhaps I'll submit a patch to the README to clarify
[22:09:40] <wjp> radix: we don't have a proper separation between system-level/user-level files yet
[22:09:41] <radix> but I must be off now
[22:09:48] <wjp> see you later
[22:10:00] * radix is away: errands
[22:10:11] * Wumpus vaguely remembers there being something about some version of the configuratio nthings conflicting with each other?
[22:10:34] <wjp> didn't we resolve most/all of these?
[22:10:48] * wjp is using automake 1.5, btw
[22:11:59] * wjp can't get over how cool that intelligent tab-completion is... it even works with killall!
[22:12:08] <wjp> (ie. you tab-complete process names then)
[22:13:01] <Wumpus> phwoah... this isn't zsh by any chance? :P
[22:13:05] <wjp> bash
[22:15:05] <Wumpus> oh, and it does funky things like that?
[22:15:55] * Wumpus uses bash but its tab completion, at least as i have it set up, doesn't go any further than files and programs...
[22:16:32] <wjp> the bash that comes with RH73beta does :-)
[22:16:48] <wjp> (bash-2.05a-9, is the RH package name)
[22:17:17] <wjp> the extra completion definitions come in the 'bash-completion-2.05a-9' package
[22:19:20] <Wumpus> hmm, there'S a package full of plugins here too... haven't installed it though... oh well, might look at it sometime, just not now
[22:20:09] * Wumpus goes to grab SDL headers, which might be a useful thing to have
[22:20:28] <wjp> *grin* indeed :-)
[22:21:03] <Wumpus> I think I noticed their absence before, and completely failed to make anote to download them when i was online :)
[22:21:06] * wjp does a quick cvs update just to see how many files he mutilated the last few days
[22:21:27] <wjp> oh, only 22
[22:22:29] <Fingolfin> heheh
[22:24:04] <wjp> ok, I think getting at least some remote debugging working was enough for today :-)
[22:24:20] * wjp can go to bed now :-)
[22:24:25] <wjp> g'night
[22:24:49] <-- wjp has left IRC ("[x]chat")
[22:24:50] <Wumpus> g'night :)
[22:25:00] * Wumpus yawns himself
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[22:51:29] * Wumpus grumbles
[22:52:28] <Wumpus> shapelst.cc:1014: implicit declaration of function `int Import_png8(...)'
[22:52:35] <Wumpus> :-(
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