#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 27 Nov 2001 (GMT)

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[03:13:41] <-- matto|wookin has left IRC (herbert.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[03:14:24] --> matto|wookin has joined #exult
[06:35:28] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[07:09:36] --> matto|kvirc has joined #exult
[07:09:47] <matto> http://exult.sourceforge.net
[09:21:44] --> wjp has joined #exult
[09:21:48] <wjp> hi
[09:21:54] <matto> Willem Jan!
[09:22:10] <wjp> heh, that's new :-)
[09:22:26] <matto> yes, I read the exult mailing list :)
[09:28:02] <-- matto has left IRC ("brb")
[09:28:20] --> matto has joined #exult
[09:33:51] --> Wumpus has joined #exult
[09:34:14] * Wumpus grins happily... finally got some more play time in today :)
[09:34:22] <wjp> :-)
[09:35:13] <Wumpus> and (I think) I finally know the rule of The Game, hehe :-)
[09:35:46] <wjp> proof it :-)
[09:36:31] <Wumpus> one thought... it'd be nice, if i ask for --enable-exult-studio, that it would tell me when it will not work due to glade not being on my ...
[09:36:31] <Wumpus> *thinks*
[09:36:36] <Wumpus> box :)
[09:36:56] <wjp> ok, you know the rule :-)
[09:37:23] --> Darke has joined #exult
[09:37:25] <wjp> you still lost on that flag, though ;-)
[09:37:31] * Darke bows. "Hi all."
[09:37:34] <wjp> hi
[09:37:47] <Wumpus> well yeah, but its hard to quote that and not break the rule :)
[09:38:08] * Darke squints. "The rule of 'The Game'?"
[09:38:33] <Wumpus> twa :)
[09:38:33] <Wumpus> umm, yes
[09:39:12] * Darke puzzledfluffs. "Err... which game? Or am I just completely confused?"
[09:39:40] <Wumpus> the game that Chuck plays to give you a clue :)
[09:39:58] <Darke> The jester?
[09:40:23] <wjp> the court fool, yes ;-)
[09:40:24] <Wumpus> ya
[09:40:49] <Wumpus> 5
[09:41:39] <Darke> Ahh. Fair enough. It's on my "list of things to work out by decompiling usecode because I'm lazy that way". <grin>
[09:42:08] <Wumpus> it would not be in that, i think
[09:42:11] <wjp> you won't get new things from the code
[09:42:47] <Wumpus> </game> It'd only be in the minds of the designers of the conversation, I imagine, since they would have pre-scripted the "correct" responses etc....
[09:43:32] * Darke is actually more interested in the 'process' of working it out then the result actually. <grin>
[09:43:58] <Wumpus> yeah, but there wouldn't be any hints in the usecode as such
[09:51:01] <matto> DARKE!!!! WUMPUS!!!!
[09:51:50] <Wumpus> eeeeks install glade-gnome looks daunting... '0 packages upgraded, 20 newly installed' ...
[09:51:51] <Wumpus> hehe, all fairly small though
[09:52:08] * Darke bows to matto.
[09:52:23] <matto> Darke: I see the topic is still the same :)
[09:52:24] * Wumpus waves to matto
[09:53:01] * Darke grins. "Indeed, all you have to do is to persualde someone to give me ops."
[09:53:12] <matto> <fluff>
[09:55:46] <Wumpus> lol @ dominus response to the running keg question
[09:56:05] <matto> hehe
[09:56:06] <matto> dominus rules!!
[09:56:22] <wjp> :-)
[09:56:54] * Darke snickers.
[09:57:56] <matto> where is the response, wump?
[09:57:56] <Wumpus> is the triple crossbow supposed to use three bolts per shot, or only one? 'cos its only using one for me... which is fine by me of course, but perhaps broken, and perhaps another hint at some of the weapon info (*shrug* or not :P)
[09:57:56] <Wumpus> matto- the second message in the `is this in the original' thread
[09:57:56] <wjp> bug
[09:57:56] <wjp> ranged weapons seem to have quite a few :/
[09:58:16] <Wumpus> :|
[09:58:29] <matto> I see that Spark continues to be a hot topic
[09:58:34] <Wumpus> iolo is currently completely slaughtering anything that comes by though :) (he's weilding it, of course :P)
[10:00:02] <Darke> <grin> And the 85th post said "Let's get... talking about Spark's ass again." How long is this thread going to last?
[10:01:04] <matto> Darke: we won't let it die!!!!
[10:01:12] <matto> we'll keep replying to it to make sure it stays on top!
[10:02:19] * Darke looks at matto balefully.
[10:03:13] * wjp wonders if phorum has a 'freeze thread' feature
[10:03:25] <matto> wjp: you mean a sticky thread feature, to keep it on top? :)
[10:03:42] * matto offers Darke a handful of bird fluff
[10:03:46] <wjp> no, I mean a freeze thread feature, to stop people from posting to it
[10:03:57] <matto> wjp: what? surely you can't mean that! :)
[10:04:07] * Darke declines matto's offer.
[10:04:24] * matto feels hurt and dejected
[10:08:08] * Darke thought matto would feel like a human, but whatever.
[10:16:07] <Wumpus> nah, humans aren't tasty at all
[10:17:16] * Darke smiles, out of the four responses he thought of, his was the... 'cleanest'. <grin>
[10:17:46] <Wumpus> huh?
[10:19:25] * Darke coughs politely. "Perhaps, 'least twisted from the original intent' would be better?" <grin>
[10:19:33] * matto takes Wumpus aside and explains Darke's condition
[10:20:09] * Wumpus was more confused by all the his's ... ;-p
[10:20:21] <Wumpus> bah, darke is nothing :)
[10:20:30] * Wumpus remebers school friends...
[10:20:59] <matto> his's ?
[10:21:36] * Darke wonders what his 'condition' is. Being a bunny?
[10:21:45] <Wumpus> * Dark smiles, out of the four responses he though of, his was the...' <-- the firs he is Darke, the second me?
[10:21:55] <Wumpus> aanyway
[10:22:00] * Wumpus procrastinating :)
[10:22:05] * matto just tweaked his x-chat settings and is unhappy w/ the result
[10:22:25] <matto> cool
[10:22:35] * Wumpus played with xmodmap and now has 'windows' keys which actually do something marginally useful :)
[10:22:43] <Darke> Wumpus: Both me. <grin> I would have most likely said ', Wumpus' was the...' if I was referring to you. <grin>
[10:23:04] <Wumpus> darke- okie :) hmmm
[10:23:13] * wjp has Windows key-Z mapped to 'new gnome-terminal window'
[10:23:48] <matto> go wjp!
[10:23:55] <Wumpus> left-win = Eterm, C-M-menu_button = xkill :)
[10:24:32] <Wumpus> just really taking an opportunity to work out what xmodmap was for
[10:24:35] <matto> how do you map keys to launch apps like that?
[10:24:41] <matto> I'd like to map an xterm shortcut
[10:24:53] <wjp> sawfish has a shortcut manager thingie
[10:24:57] <matto> ok
[10:25:03] <matto> I'll check it out
[10:25:14] <Wumpus> matto- hmm, i dunno, i use windowmaker and there's a "keyboard shortcut' thing for each item in the menus
[10:26:43] <matto> hmm... my windows key isn't even recognized
[10:26:50] <matto> I guess that's because I said have a 101 key keyboard or something
[10:26:58] <wjp> that's why you need to play with xmodmap first :-)
[10:27:01] <Wumpus> does xev recognise it?
[10:27:12] * matto runs his hand through his hair
[10:27:16] <matto> xev?
[10:27:33] * Wumpus wonders how to describe xec
[10:27:35] <Wumpus> xev
[10:27:43] <Wumpus> michaelz@baradduhr 21:22:27 ~ $ wtf is xev
[10:27:44] <Wumpus> xev: xev (1x) - print contents of X events
[10:27:48] * matto tried running 'xev'
[10:27:54] <matto> it opened a window that says event test
[10:27:57] <Wumpus> not sure if that helps :) it kind of reports key scan codes and stuff, and mouse events in its window, and so on
[10:28:13] <matto> oh ok...
[10:28:17] <matto> yes, xev recognizes it
[10:28:48] <matto> what a quaint little program!
[10:29:02] <matto> so if xev recongizes it.. what does that mean?
[10:29:06] <Wumpus> yeah, so then just have xmodmap -e 'keycode 115 = F30' <-- or something like that :) (that binds keycode 115, which happends to be my left windows key, to "F30"... hehe, go figure :))
[10:29:17] <Wumpus> ... have that in .xsession or something
[10:29:38] <matto> what is F30?
[10:29:48] <Wumpus> a key i'm assuming no keyboard i ever will have :P
[10:29:54] <matto> I see
[10:29:56] <Wumpus> like, you have F1-F12, right? or maybe F1-F10 :)
[10:30:03] * matto draws himself up straight.
[10:30:09] <matto> I assure you, sir, there are 12 F keys.
[10:30:10] * wjp mapped the windows keys to Meta-L and Meta-R
[10:30:32] <Wumpus> hmm? but alt is already meta? or you have alt doing something else?
[10:30:45] <wjp> I mapped alt to Alt-L and Alt-R
[10:30:47] <Wumpus> hrmm that reminds me, I have to convince my terminal to the meta character properly
[10:30:48] <Wumpus> (dumb terminal that is)
[10:31:16] <matto> cool! now my Alt-Z opens an xterm
[10:31:16] <Wumpus> there is Alt? hmm well there ya go, didn't know that :) I don't have them mapped at all, its just default for them for me
[10:31:21] * matto does the Super Don Quixote Happy Dance
[10:32:51] <matto> sawfish/gnome isn't too bad once you get it customized the way you want
[10:33:12] <Wumpus> lol there are "super" and "hyper" keys?! :)
[10:33:24] <Wumpus> #define XK_Hyper_L 0xFFED /* Left hyper */
[10:33:31] <wjp> yes... I never figured out what those were supposed to be/do
[10:33:43] <Wumpus> just other modifiers i suppose
[10:33:49] <Darke> To support the original buckybits keyboard IIRC. 6 modifier keys.
[10:34:04] <wjp> the sawfish shortcut manager actually supports super/hyper too
[10:34:12] * Darke points you to JARGON, it should be mentioned in there.
[10:34:13] * Wumpus goes to investigate
[10:34:25] <wjp> I never managed to get anything mapped to them, though
[10:35:04] <Wumpus> hmm, WPrefs doesn't seem to know about it...
[10:36:32] <Wumpus> oops./..
[10:36:36] <Wumpus> eek
[10:36:43] <Wumpus> is it possible to selectively switch off keyboard repeat?
[10:36:49] * Wumpus just wound up with about 30 Eterms ;-p
[10:37:32] * wjp tries that
[10:37:35] <wjp> nifty :-)
[10:37:56] <wjp> you only need to hold that key for a few seconds to get that many
[10:40:41] <matto> anyone know if there is any Break-Out / Arkanoid clones for linux?
[10:41:11] <wjp> I guess there would be dozens
[10:41:38] <matto> I was just thinking .. it wouldn't be hard to whip up a game like that using opengl
[10:41:40] <Wumpus> xboing is quite cool :) (I think thats the breakout/arkanoid style thing)
[10:42:45] <matto> here's a nice looking one called lbreakout
[10:44:59] <wjp> xboing looks nice, yes
[10:48:34] --> Nadir has joined #exult
[10:48:39] <wjp> hi
[10:48:42] <Nadir> http://pub7.bravenet.com/forum/fetch.php?id=9758983&usernum=594923016
[10:48:49] <Darke> Hi Nadir.
[10:48:58] <Nadir> hi
[10:49:14] <Nadir> XP runs U7 natively ?
[10:49:32] <wjp> what?
[10:49:34] <wjp> how?
[10:49:46] <Wumpus> ?! phwoah?
[10:49:54] * Darke boggles slightly.
[10:49:56] <Nadir> read the above linl
[10:50:00] <wjp> can you actually play the game too?
[10:50:01] <Nadir> s/linl/link/
[10:50:02] * Wumpus though voodoo was just fundamentally incomptaible with everything :)
[10:50:47] <Nadir> anyone here have XP
[10:50:53] <wjp> Ryan has it
[10:51:06] <wjp> Dominik might too; not sure
[10:51:23] <Wumpus> it still won't have proper speed limitting though :)
[10:51:33] <Nadir> maybe they haven't even tried it
[10:52:35] * Wumpus got ultima7.com working to a point in dosemu
[10:52:40] <Wumpus> but not the game itself
[10:52:55] <Wumpus> (long ago when i actually had some idea of how to get dosemu working)
[10:53:22] <Darke> From reading it it looks like they just got the sound to work (perhaps under the installer?), and for it to die with the memory manager complaint. But who knows, perhaps XP has a 'no memory manager' dos emulation. <grin>
[10:53:29] <wjp> XP (and any other 'real' OS) really shouldn't allow the things U7 tries to do
[10:53:53] <Nadir> Let's wait for Colourless/Dominus
[10:54:05] <wjp> it switches the CPU from&back to protected mode
[10:54:27] <Wumpus> whoever said windows was a real OS :P
[10:54:45] <Darke> It depends if it's got good enough software 'emulation', I suppose, but I do happen to agree with Wumpus. <grin>
[10:54:52] <wjp> well, real in the sense that it has memory protection
[10:55:04] <Wumpus> :)
[10:55:48] <Nadir> I believe XP might have special rules when it runs certain executables. Maybe it enables a special emulation-compatibility-mode just for Ultima7.
[10:56:25] <Wumpus> hehe
[10:56:31] <Wumpus> u7mode :)
[10:56:32] <wjp> it might be able to catch unreal/voodoo mode
[10:56:55] <wjp> not sure... I should brush up on the details
[10:57:11] <Darke> That's the lines along which I was thinking.
[10:57:53] <wjp> IIRC, it uses voodoo to get a 'large' memory space in real mode
[10:58:31] <Kirben> Well Ultima 7 runs under Windows 2000 too barely but only the intro, depends how far that person went.
[10:59:08] <Darke> Perhaps it has something like u7run, it catches the particular interrupts and remaps the memory space. <shrug> Don't know. <grin>
[11:00:13] * wjp doesn't get this crash in the cheat room
[11:01:05] <wjp> I can't really find anything wrong, but still it crashes
[11:01:07] <wjp> *sigh*
[11:02:05] <Nadir> Maybe it has an implementation similar to u7dpmi built much closer to the NTVDM services
[11:02:28] <wjp> NTVDM? what's the D?
[11:02:51] <Darke> 'Device'?
[11:03:42] <Nadir> DOS
[11:03:47] <wjp> ah, ok
[11:03:49] <Nadir> NT Virtual DOS Machine
[11:04:01] * Darke ahhhs
[11:04:29] <wjp> there's something really strange going on in that cheat room
[11:04:44] <Wumpus> its a cheat room, waddayaexpect? :P
[11:04:59] <matto> ?seen fingolfin
[11:04:59] <exultbot> fingolfin left IRC around Mon Nov 26 15:40:56 2001 (GMT) (Remote closed the connection)
[11:05:17] <Nadir> wjp: I'm sure you'll find a fix for it :)
[11:05:34] <wjp> hack-moving an NPC there almost always crashes exult
[11:06:30] <wjp> umm... nm... that happens everywhere :/
[11:06:46] <matto> Darke: so how do you like KVIrc?
[11:07:47] <Darke> matto: It's rather good. A bit on the 'too much eyecandy' side for me, but the current 'best' from all the other irc clients I've tried. bitchx is second on the list, mainly because it's a good console client. <grin>
[11:08:45] <matto> Darke: I tried it for the first time tonight
[11:08:57] <matto> it has an mirc feel to it ... with yes, lots o eye-candy hehe
[11:09:15] <wjp> a mirc feel? bah
[11:09:20] <matto> wumpus is valiently using ircII
[11:09:32] <Wumpus> epic roxors!
[11:09:38] <matto> Darke: I am not ready to give up x-chat but I was impressed by kvirc :)
[11:10:30] <matto> wjp: yes... it's surprising that mirc is so popular amongst windows users... you'd think someone would release something that would blow it away
[11:10:44] <Darke> matto: The only thing I would really like from it, would be to have multiple channels from different servers in one window, rather then one window per server like it currently is.
[11:10:53] <matto> Darke: yes! I agree with you!
[11:11:02] <matto> that's what I won't like about mirc ...
[11:11:08] <matto> (that you need multiple instances)
[11:11:19] <wjp> matto: yes, it's so popular some windows users have been known to call IRC itself 'mirc'... ugh
[11:11:50] <matto> wjp: hee hee.. the classic problem of any majority mentality
[11:12:39] <matto> at least mirc isn't a MS product.. then it would _really_ bug me :)
[11:12:53] <matto> "go into outlook" "Go into word" "go to this website that requires IE"
[11:12:58] <Darke> matto: It's occasionally annoying when you have three windows open, even if two of them are on the same server with different nicks (roleplaying and the like), and you more-or-less need to have three windows clittering up your desktops.
[11:13:26] * matto applauds wumpus on his ircII last stand <grin>
[11:13:41] * Wumpus shrugs
[11:13:53] * Darke is _glad_ mirc is not a MS product. Because then you would have MS 'extensions' to the irc spec.
[11:14:04] * matto agrees w/ darke
[11:14:14] <Wumpus> well there's already the seedy extnesion to DCC
[11:14:23] --> matto|kvirc has joined #exult
[11:14:28] <Wumpus> *** Current value of MIRC_BROKEN_DCC_RESUME is OFF
[11:14:39] <matto|kvirc> kvirc has this DCC Voice thing
[11:15:04] * Nadir is happy with x-chat
[11:15:10] <Darke> DCC voice? <blink> <double check> Weird.
[11:15:14] * matto|kvirc sends a DCC voice request to his x-chat client and notices nothing happens
[11:15:39] <matto|kvirc> no route to host
[11:15:47] * Darke nods. Oh well...
[11:16:06] <matto|kvirc> hey we're connected
[11:16:12] <matto|kvirc> what does it mean? hehe
[11:16:16] <wjp> hackmoving an NPC seems to trigger an assert
[11:16:22] <Darke> It seems to have worked, you'll need to talk, I have no mike at the moment. <grin>
[11:16:39] * matto|kvirc talks into his mic
[11:17:16] <Darke> matto|kvirc: did you click the 'talk' button first? <grin>
[11:17:22] <matto|kvirc> oh...
[11:17:22] <matto|kvirc> hee hee
[11:17:41] <matto|kvirc> ok.. did you hear anything? hehe
[11:17:43] <Darke> matto: It works!
[11:17:46] <matto|kvirc> !!
[11:17:48] * matto|kvirc falls out of his chair
[11:17:54] <Darke> Scary. <grin>
[11:18:03] <matto|kvirc> are you on high speed internet?
[11:18:14] <Darke> matto: <nod> I am, cable.
[11:18:19] * matto|kvirc is wondering what the bitrate of the audio is
[11:18:28] <Darke> 'Good'.
[11:18:53] <Darke> At least radio grade by my guess.
[11:20:03] <matto> hey that's really cool
[11:20:05] * Darke can't find his mike and ponders piping a mp3 though it so you can hear the quality...
[11:20:23] <Nadir> wjp: what is the problem ?
[11:20:42] <wjp> not sure
[11:20:49] <Nadir> and can Darke and matto move their **offtopic** conversation somewhere else ??? :)
[11:21:04] <Nadir> where is it crashinh ?
[11:21:11] <Darke> Nadir: There is topic? <grin>
[11:21:12] <Wumpus> but then it'll be dead quiet again ;-p
[11:21:15] <matto> Nadir: well! pretty demanding for someone who is hardly ever here :)
[11:21:19] <wjp> heh, this place would be way to quiet if we didn't allow offtopic conversation :-)
[11:21:53] <Darke> Wumpus: Kind of like the forums? <grin>
[11:22:09] * matto experiments with the word 'matto', seeing how it feels rolling around in his mouth
[11:22:12] <wjp> Nadir: try this: go to any 'random' pikeman in Monitor, switch his schedule to 'Stand' (so his moving around won't affect anything), and then hackmove him away a chunk
[11:22:42] <wjp> this seems to trigger the assert in switched_chunks()
[11:22:53] <wjp> (actors.cc, around line 3975)
[11:22:55] <Wumpus> darke- :)
[11:24:12] <matto> well we could always talk about Spark :)
[11:24:13] * Wumpus plays gtetrinet
[11:24:50] <Darke> matto: No! Anything but that!
[11:25:07] <matto> odd.. ctcp ping came back in 0.62 seconds but a normal ping is taking 260ms
[11:25:40] * Darke 's primary function to test ucxt us 402. He's _sick_ of Spark. <grin>
[11:26:15] <Darke> matto: Weird.
[11:27:00] * Nadir needs to rebuild Exult with full debug
[11:27:34] <wjp> why are -g and -O2 passed by default, btw?
[11:27:36] <Nadir> matto: well, you're always here, but hardly ever say much :)
[11:27:42] <Nadir> dunno.
[11:28:07] <wjp> Nadir: I usually keep around both a debug and a normal build of exult
[11:28:24] <wjp> (just call exult's configure from a different dir. than the source dir)
[11:28:32] <matto> Nadir: ouch! :)
[11:28:45] <Nadir> I usually always build with debug, but when I tested my "make dist" modifications, I forgot to enable the switch
[11:29:05] <Nadir> wjp: have you tested the RPM .spec file recently ?
[11:29:09] <wjp> nope
[11:31:43] <wjp> ugh... AC_PROG_CXX automatically sets CXXFLAGS to -g -O2
[11:31:54] <wjp> (if it detect gcc)
[11:32:13] <Nadir> not good.
[11:32:30] <Nadir> Can't we ignore that and reset it to something else ?
[11:32:38] <wjp> I wonder why autoconf would do something silly like that
[11:38:09] <Darke> Because it can? <grin>
[11:42:04] * wjp hacks configure in
[11:42:05] <wjp> bah
[11:42:12] <wjp> configure.in, I mean
[11:48:58] <Wumpus> make exult_studio looks like its working
[11:49:05] <Wumpus> 8-)
[11:49:13] <wjp> hmm, interesting... that pikeman has its cx and cy set to 255
[11:50:42] <Wumpus> bah :(
[11:50:49] <Wumpus> ah yay, got it working by adding -lglade
[11:51:03] <Wumpus> (probably just 'cos configure didn't work right in the first instance)
[11:56:29] <Nadir> how do I grab an NPC ?
[11:56:40] <wjp> click on it
[11:56:50] <Nadir> it says "pikeman"
[11:56:59] <wjp> it also grabs it
[11:57:08] <Nadir> then I press F2
[11:57:39] <Wumpus> oooh @ exult studio
[11:58:19] <wjp> brb
[11:59:49] <Nadir> ok, set pikeman schedule to stand, hackmoved him away. nothing happened
[12:00:34] <Wumpus> oh hey, i'd nevr realized there was a pattern to the little frames around the faces...
[12:00:48] <Nadir> yes, different cities/areas
[12:01:01] <Nadir> nice touch
[12:01:14] <Wumpus> it is, once you're aware of it :)
[12:02:45] <Nadir> I must say that running Exult at 400x300 is quite pleasant
[12:03:47] <Wumpus> this *is* nice... (exult_studio)
[12:05:25] * Darke runs exult in 400x300x2 normally. For some reason he considers it the 'nicest' resolution.
[12:06:54] <wjp> Nadir: you need to move him outside of his current chunk, and it doesn't seem to happen every time
[12:07:19] <Wumpus> `magic storm' egg? in BG?
[12:08:01] <Nadir> wjp:tried many times. nothing happens...
[12:08:54] <wjp> hmm... sorry.. I meant 'inside his current chunk'
[12:09:43] <Nadir> aha
[12:09:49] <wjp> alternatively: find pikeman, Ctrl-Alt-M, move pikeman within chunk
[12:09:53] <Nadir> happened
[12:10:04] <wjp> now, I know it is cheating, but this really shouldn't happen
[12:10:36] <Wumpus> whee
[12:10:42] <Wumpus> works in BG too
[12:10:47] <Wumpus> well, depending on how you define work
[12:11:03] <Wumpus> Npc_actor::switched_chunks(Map_chunk *, Map_chunk *): Assertion `next != this' failed.
[12:11:10] <wjp> yeah, that one
[12:11:23] <wjp> it is triggered because olist = 0, btw
[12:11:33] * Darke three or four or whatever.
[12:11:39] <Nadir> indeed
[12:12:18] <wjp> strangely, that is caused by cx, cy being 255
[12:12:27] * Darke mumbles something about accidently typing a slash. <sigh> Finger macros are annoying sometimes.
[12:14:34] <wjp> that Npc_actor::move functions looks strange
[12:15:11] <wjp> it calls Game_object::move, which already should take care of removing the object from one chunk, and adding it to the next
[12:17:15] <Nadir> I'll look at it after lunch
[12:17:22] --- Nadir is now known as Nadir|lunch
[12:18:41] <wjp> I'll look at it before lunch ;-)
[12:19:24] <wjp> oh wait... switched_chunks moves it from the npc lists
[12:22:17] --> Colourless has joined #Exult
[12:22:17] <Colourless> hi
[12:22:22] <wjp> hi
[12:22:22] <matto> CLESS!!!!!
[12:22:29] * Wumpus waves to colourless
[12:22:30] <Colourless> MATTO!!!!!!!!!!!
[12:22:31] <matto> :)
[12:22:34] <wjp> http://pub7.bravenet.com/forum/fetch.php?id=9758983&usernum=594923016
[12:22:35] <Wumpus> you always come on this late? its what, just before 11 there? or just before 10?
[12:22:38] * Darke bows. "Hi Colourless."
[12:22:40] <wjp> could you take a peek at that?
[12:22:59] <Colourless> yeah, it's just before 11
[12:23:13] * Wumpus thinks its almost bed time by now :) and its only half an hour later :)
[12:23:13] <Colourless> wjp: you talking to me>
[12:23:16] <wjp> Colourless: yeah
[12:23:24] <matto> Wumpus: really?
[12:23:27] <wjp> it claims U7 runs in an XP dos box...
[12:23:28] * Wumpus works on evil reports which were started... uhh... years ago
[12:23:35] <matto> _I_ think it's bed time and it's 5:23 AM hehe
[12:23:52] <Wumpus> hehe
[12:23:53] <Wumpus> 5:23am? eeks
[12:24:01] <matto> yeah... I guess it is bedtime for you, eh?
[12:24:10] <matto> sheesh my schedule is horrible!
[12:24:24] <matto> ok good night/day/whatever :)
[12:24:33] <Colourless> i'll look at it. I know that win2k could run ultima7 with vdms, but you couldn't journey onward
[12:24:51] <Wumpus> hehe, g'night matto
[12:24:55] <wjp> night
[12:25:04] <Colourless> cya :-)
[12:25:23] <wjp> yeah, I think that would be the case here too, but it doesn't mention anything about not being to start the game itself
[12:25:23] <Wumpus> (is one of us actually going?)
[12:27:54] <wjp> pity... it looks like this is just a bug in the dragging code
[12:30:49] <Kirben> Colourless: don't even need vdms if sound is disabled.
[12:32:28] <wjp> hmm, I wonder why we call set_invalid() in drop_at_lift() just before dropping an object
[12:32:53] <Colourless> wjp: i don't actually know what that happens. i was concerned about it the other day
[12:33:08] <-- wjp has left IRC (herbert.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
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[12:33:14] <Colourless> ...know WHY that happend...
[12:33:16] <wjp> maybe it's necessary for items in containers?
[12:33:25] <Colourless> perhaps
[12:33:44] <wjp> hmm, what did OPN report as the reason for my disconnecting?
[12:33:51] <Wumpus> netsplit
[12:34:00] <Wumpus> *** Signoff: wjp (sagan.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[12:34:03] <Colourless> kirben: the winxp virtual machine will even give you sound without vdms in Ultima 7
[12:34:07] <wjp> ah, ok
[12:34:14] <wjp> server crash probably
[12:34:34] <Wumpus> ah, hehe, looks the same from here :P
[12:34:46] <wjp> Colourless: that set_invalid() causes a crash when moving NPCs inside a chunk
[12:34:48] <Colourless> wjp, the set invalid should be conditional only if the item was originally in a container
[12:34:56] <Colourless> wjp: yes that's what I was thinkinh
[12:35:11] <wjp> yeah, I just changed it to that
[12:35:36] <wjp> where does the owner get cleared, btw?
[12:35:52] <Colourless> no idea
[12:36:59] <Colourless> kirben: you asked for this a while back, you may or may not have noticed but exult now has a version page when you get properties on it
[12:37:10] <wjp> ah, good. The 'paperdoll inventory crash' is probably caused by an outdated exult_bg.flx
[12:40:18] * wjp wonders if the owner is cleared at all when an item is moved
[12:41:01] <wjp> ah... in Ireg_game_object::move
[12:44:01] <wjp> this is not good... we call Game_object::move() directly a lot, while we should be calling Ireg_game_object::move()
[12:44:17] <Colourless> examples?
[12:44:24] <wjp> Npc_actor::move
[12:44:54] <wjp> Barge_object::(various)
[12:44:55] <Colourless> you know strictly speaking, Actor::move should be called from Npc_actor
[12:45:00] <wjp> yes
[12:45:22] <wjp> is there a way to automatically do this?
[12:45:36] <wjp> something like parent_class::move() ?
[12:45:42] <Colourless> don't think so
[12:45:49] <wjp> (like the 'inherited' keyword in Delphi)
[12:45:51] <wjp> :-(
[12:46:29] <wjp> might be a useful addition to C++ from an OO point of view
[12:46:30] <wjp> ah well
[12:48:30] <wjp> should we fix this right before a release?
[12:49:01] <Colourless> I think we should
[12:50:14] <Kirben> Colourless: Yes Microsoft finally ported over the legacy support created for the audio WDM driver format to Windows XP. And yes I noticed the new version tab addition and that will be very useful.
[12:50:28] <Colourless> it's one of those silly things, it (what we currently have) shouldn't cause a problem, but it might.
[12:50:48] <wjp> it does in this case
[12:50:59] <wjp> (well, indirectly)
[12:51:47] <Colourless> i see a fair amount of Game_object:: in Container_game_object
[12:51:58] <Colourless> should all be ireg i guess
[12:52:31] <Colourless> i know that we already did these sorts of changes to remove_this sometime ago, it's about time we 'fixed' up the rest
[12:52:40] * wjp nods
[12:53:51] <wjp> ok, this fixed the crash when hack-moving NPCs within a chunk
[12:54:06] --- wjp is now known as wjp|lunch
[12:54:07] <wjp|lunch> brb
[12:56:01] <Colourless> ok, that's good. it think it also was the cause of the infinite loops i was habing
[13:00:15] --- wjp|lunch is now known as wjp
[13:03:38] <wjp> hmm, that set_invalid() could probably cause quite a bit of object list corruption, couldn't it?
[13:03:58] <Colourless> yeah probably
[13:04:11] <Colourless> it would make the object not think it's in the object list... BAD
[13:04:33] <wjp> umm... wait a sec
[13:04:35] <Colourless> so, everytime an object it dragged it's potentially destroying the object list
[13:04:58] <wjp> when you start dragging, the object is already removed from the object list
[13:05:01] <Colourless> yes?
[13:05:12] <Colourless> is it? well, that's ok then i guess
[13:05:23] <wjp> drag.cc, 170
[13:05:52] <wjp> well, not really ok, since for an NPC you'll also have to do other things to remove it from a chunk
[13:06:25] <wjp> notice the "+++++Really should remove_this(1), but then have to save cx,cy" comment there
[13:07:44] <Colourless> yeah I see
[13:08:12] <wjp> that explains the set_invalid()
[13:08:13] <Colourless> fixing that up should wait till after release
[13:08:47] <Colourless> perhaps remove_this(1) should be used instead of set_invalid() ????
[13:09:11] * wjp thinks
[13:09:37] * Wumpus hears the gears grinding :)
[13:09:45] <wjp> why is the object already deleted when we pick it up, btw?
[13:10:22] <Colourless> what?
[13:10:59] --- Nadir|lunch is now known as Nadir
[13:11:02] <Nadir> hi
[13:11:16] <Colourless> hi
[13:12:04] <Nadir> wjp: re paperdoll problem (outdated exult_bg.flx) - now that we have version info, shouldn't we save that in our flexes and check it at startup ?
[13:12:12] * Darke bows towards the returning Nadir.
[13:12:46] <Colourless> my original idea was to generate a checksum, rather than use version info
[13:13:00] <Colourless> well, to be exact, that was the second idea :-)
[13:13:09] <Nadir> that too. those files don't change THAT often
[13:13:27] <Nadir> put the checksum in the exult_flx.h ?
[13:13:36] <Colourless> yeah
[13:14:07] <wjp> but this would prevent people from modifying the flexes without recompiling exult
[13:14:26] <Colourless> command line override
[13:14:51] <wjp> hmm, now that you mention it, that was my suggestion a while back, wasn't it? :-)
[13:14:58] <Colourless> yes it was :-)
[13:15:08] <Nadir> good ideas
[13:15:27] <Colourless> also, possible warnings instead of just not running
[13:15:34] <wjp> maybe make it a exult.cfg option too
[13:15:43] <Colourless> yeah good idea
[13:17:16] <Colourless> well if we are to do it, we need a checksum formula
[13:17:36] <Nadir> md5sum ?
[13:20:27] <wjp> how easy is that to compute?
[13:20:36] <Nadir> duno
[13:22:40] <Wumpus> what are you up to anyway? escaped yet?
[13:22:44] <Wumpus> bah
[13:22:55] <Wumpus> md5sum might be a little more heavy duty than is needed...
[13:23:05] * Wumpus thinks its fairly non-trivial to compute
[13:23:18] <Wumpus> i mean, we only need something very very basic here... really...
[13:24:36] <Colourless> checksum = 0; while(~eof) checksum = checksum + get_next_byte();
[13:24:38] <Colourless> :-)
[13:24:56] <Wumpus> well maybe not quite that simple :) but yeah
[13:25:11] <Colourless> it would still in theory work
[13:25:21] <Wumpus> (although even there it depends on how large your checksum thingie is)
[13:25:23] <Wumpus> *nod*
[13:25:32] * Colourless thinks 32 bit would be ok :-)
[13:26:01] <Wumpus> break the file into 32 bit words and XOR 'em all togehter :)
[13:26:02] <wjp> if you just add bytes to it, more than 32 bit would probably not even be used
[13:27:00] <Colourless> well, no.
[13:27:18] <Wumpus> hmm true :)
[13:27:21] <Colourless> the flex would have to be over 16 mb (and for every char to be 255) to get over that limit
[13:29:08] <wjp> about that dragging again: I think the best thing to do would be what Jeff suggested. (ie. call remove_this(1) when picking up an item, and back up cx,cy)
[13:29:50] <wjp> otherwise we'd have to remove it at every place where an object could be dropped (which includes some function calls that check & drop at the same time)
[13:29:52] <Colourless> yeah. well we could just add 2 vars
[13:30:35] <wjp> int old_cx = dragging->get_cx(); dragging->remove_this(1); dragging->set_cx(old_cx); ?
[13:30:43] <wjp> (same for cy)
[13:30:59] <wjp> (oh, and it's not an int, but an unsigned char)
[13:30:59] <Colourless> i would think dragging_cx would be more appropriate
[13:31:16] <Colourless> such things hardly matter.
[13:31:42] <Colourless> :-)
[13:32:17] <Colourless> int would probably be 'faster' than unsigned char on P6 architectures :-)
[13:32:31] <wjp> :-)
[13:32:41] <Wumpus> woah
[13:32:51] <Colourless> i'm thinking it might save about 4 clock cycles :-)
[13:32:53] <Wumpus> md5 looks fairly involved, jsut at a glance
[13:32:56] <wjp> that would help if you're trying to pick something up something 1E6 times/second :-)
[13:33:04] <Darke> No doubt gcc stores it as an int anyway.
[13:33:15] <wjp> scratch one of those 'something's...
[13:33:28] <Colourless> :-)
[13:33:55] <wjp> another thing: if drop() drops something in a gump, isn't it accidently added to a chunk as well?
[13:34:28] * wjp tries that
[13:34:37] <Colourless> one wouldn't normally think so
[13:34:56] <wjp> doesn't the last line of drop() do that?
[13:35:12] <Colourless> return (true);
[13:35:18] <Colourless> ?? you mean that :-)
[13:35:31] <wjp> there's no return at the end...
[13:35:42] <Colourless> opps, that's drag :-)
[13:37:05] <Colourless> no, it shouldn't
[13:37:10] <Colourless> that is in theory it should
[13:37:19] <Colourless> the gump sets the chunk to 255,255
[13:37:25] <Colourless> obj->set_chunk(255, 255);
[13:37:28] <Colourless> in Gump::add
[13:37:40] <wjp> weren't the in-gump coords stored in cx?
[13:37:42] <Colourless> then me notes obj->set_chunk(sx, sy)
[13:38:36] <Colourless> that is also a problemn
[13:38:38] <wjp> ah, there's a return earlier in drop somewhere
[13:39:17] * wjp wonders why he missed that earlier
[13:39:24] <Colourless> where? i one, but i don't think it would be used in this case
[13:39:42] <wjp> line 409?
[13:39:55] <wjp> (could be off one or two since I've edited some things)
[13:40:53] <Colourless> yeah it would be
[13:41:14] <Colourless> that return will prevent the object getting placed in a chunk
[13:41:28] <wjp> this code is 'slightly' messy, methinks
[13:41:35] <Colourless> no kidding
[13:41:49] <Wumpus> sleepies for me
[13:41:49] <wjp> way too many special cases
[13:41:50] * Wumpus sighs
[13:41:56] <wjp> g'night
[13:42:02] <Wumpus> `night all
[13:42:02] <Colourless> cya
[13:42:04] <-- Wumpus has left IRC ("No windows for this server")
[13:47:22] <wjp> ok... so that was crash no. 3
[13:47:31] <-- Nadir has left IRC (herbert.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net)
[13:47:34] <wjp> back to the cheat room crash
[13:47:38] <Colourless> :-)
[13:48:05] <wjp> (which I really don't get, btw)
[13:48:20] <wjp> (get as in understand)
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[13:49:24] <Darke> What exactly is happening, btw. I think I missed it earlier.
[13:50:20] <wjp> it crashes when you walk around in the cheat room on the NW of Erstram's island
[13:50:35] <wjp> (randomly)
[13:51:39] <Colourless> what crash?
[13:51:55] <wjp> the one from my ML email
[13:53:12] <Colourless> is it in any way repeatable?
[13:53:39] <wjp> I've seen it >10 times now
[13:53:42] <wjp> so, yes
[13:54:10] <Colourless> any special circumstances needed?
[13:54:23] <wjp> not really
[13:54:52] <wjp> it crashes in the kid_games schedule, so I usually manually trigger the egg that creates a woman in kid_games schedule a few times
[13:54:55] <Darke> Is this where all the teleporters are?
[13:55:18] <wjp> no, there's a few naked women walking around there, and there's a bunch of magic items
[13:55:46] * Darke ahhs. Sorry, wrong room. <grin>
[13:55:48] <Colourless> no teleports there
[13:56:16] <wjp> ok, I think I can now 'really' reproduce it
[13:56:28] <Colourless> what is it?
[13:56:46] <wjp> set the business schedule one someone there to 'kid games' (25) -> instant crash
[13:56:50] <wjp> s/one/of/
[13:57:15] <wjp> (not the 'Avatar', btw. That doesn't seem to be an NPC)
[13:58:26] <wjp> oh, and not the one who's already in kid_games
[13:58:35] <wjp> (I tried the one that's eating at the table)
[13:58:56] <Colourless> no crash here
[14:00:06] <wjp> strange
[14:02:17] <wjp> another strange thing: it crashes on 'if (act->get_schedule_type()==kid_games)', while *act does seem to be a valid actor (most of the time)
[14:02:44] <Colourless> strange
[14:02:52] <wjp> could it be that it was deleted, and the RTTI is screwed up?
[14:02:52] <Colourless> no problens here
[14:03:04] <Colourless> could be
[14:03:14] <wjp> that would explain the difference between compilers too
[14:03:46] * wjp wonders where gcc stores the RTTI
[14:03:49] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[14:03:56] <wjp> hi
[14:04:07] <Dominus> hi
[14:04:10] <Colourless> hi
[14:04:41] <-- Kirben has left IRC ("System Meltdown")
[14:05:25] <Dominus> Colourless: what are your default settings for the command prompt in XP so you can run the original in XP without u7run. I never got it to run (I saw this post to the VDMS forum days ago :-))
[14:05:54] <Colourless> get properties on command.com in system32 and set EMS to None
[14:05:56] <wjp> oh, did you get beyond the menu?
[14:06:01] <Colourless> then just run command
[14:06:10] <Colourless> nope, can't even get to the menu
[14:06:20] <wjp> just intro?
[14:06:25] <Colourless> yeah
[14:09:59] <Dominus> ok, got it to work :-)
[14:10:11] <Dominus> had the wrong memeory settings
[14:10:31] <wjp> oh, nice... now it crashed with 'act' a null pointer
[14:11:22] <Dominus> wjp: btw, should I close the "paperdoll crash" bug telling him he needs to compile the actual flex as well?
[14:11:23] <Nadir> Dominus: can you actually play or just intro/menu ?
[14:11:35] <Dominus> just intro - no menus
[14:11:39] <wjp> actually, didn't he get a binary from Max?
[14:11:55] <Dominus> that's what I wondered
[14:12:12] <Dominus> but maybe Max did just send him the binary
[14:12:22] <Dominus> (but I guess he wouldn't
[14:12:23] <Dominus> )
[14:12:27] <wjp> the savegame lists Metrowerks 0.0.1 as a compiler, btw
[14:12:27] <Nadir> close the bug then...
[14:12:41] <wjp> yeah, just close it as invalid
[14:13:09] <Dominus> kay, I will
[14:13:10] <wjp> Maybe with a comment like 'Please try to update the .flx'es. If it still crashes, you can re-open this bug'
[14:13:27] * Dominus nods
[14:14:39] <wjp> how could there possibly ever be a NULL pointer in the Actor_vector that find_nearby_actors returns?!
[14:15:04] <Colourless> there shouldn't
[14:16:09] <wjp> one other thing: what would happen there if the returned vector is empty?
[14:16:11] <Dominus> Colourless: wow, I just set the U7-installer to SB pro and (220,5) and it produces the speech in the intro
[14:16:19] <Colourless> yeah
[14:16:34] <Colourless> it use set it to use mt32 you'll get music as well
[14:16:42] <Colourless> wrong notes, but still, it works
[14:16:44] <Dominus> no way :-)
[14:19:49] <Dominus> btw, in the Paperdoll crash bug, he mentions the slow down when going to the market just to the left and it's really skipping there a bit
[14:19:55] <wjp> strange... now I suddenly get null-pointers all the time... argh
[14:20:08] <wjp> Dominus: could a new superchunk be starting there?
[14:20:29] <wjp> if so, it's probably a big one (Britain is kind of crowded)
[14:20:51] <Dominus> hmm, how do I check? (ctrl-alt-m ?)
[14:21:02] <wjp> hmm, good question
[14:21:06] <Colourless> you'd have to just check your coords
[14:21:09] <wjp> what are the coordinates?
[14:21:29] <Colourless> 256 tiles is the width of a superchunk
[14:21:39] <wjp> BeOS is _really_ slow when switching superchunks
[14:21:52] <wjp> (bad disk caching, probably)
[14:22:03] <wjp> MacOS might have a similar problem
[14:22:07] <Dominus> it's the little market in Britain
[14:23:33] <wjp> (0352, 05e6)
[14:23:39] <wjp> doesn't look like it
[14:24:09] <Dominus> I definetly see little hangs there
[14:24:21] <wjp> multiple?
[14:24:46] <Colourless> it would have to be be on a 0x100 boundry and 5e6 is fairly close (1 and a half chunks(
[14:24:59] <Dominus> just walking around there
[14:25:05] <Dominus> multiple
[14:29:49] <wjp> Colourless: is that (dark) 'Avatar' standing there an NPC for you?
[14:30:17] <Colourless> no
[14:31:41] <wjp> that wouldn't cause any problems, would it?
[14:32:57] <Colourless> no, it shouldn't
[14:33:12] <wjp> you use a different find_nearby, right?
[14:33:26] <Colourless> what it just means is that there was no monster info for that shape so it was created as an ireg
[14:33:42] <Colourless> 576 of egg.cc
[14:34:01] <wjp> hmm, what if find_nearby() still recognizes it as an actor?
[14:34:13] <Colourless> how>
[14:34:36] <Colourless> it's an IREG, shouldn't be detected as an Actor
[14:34:57] <wjp> well...
[14:35:13] <wjp> Check_mask uses gwin->get_info(obj)->is_npc()
[14:35:45] <Colourless> it does?
[14:35:51] <wjp> yeah
[14:36:24] <wjp> I guess this could explain it
[14:37:00] <Colourless> perhaps then that the egg code needs to be modified a bit, of Check_mask needs to be changed. from memory the dark avatar is supposed to be a npc as well
[14:37:12] <Colourless> s/of/or/
[14:37:17] <wjp> in the cheat room in the original, you mean?
[14:37:24] <Colourless> yeah
[14:37:40] <wjp> do those 'Exult_vector's ever need to contain a null pointer?
[14:38:43] <Colourless> i seriously wouldn't think so. null pointers aren't exactly useful if you don't know what they are for
[14:38:53] <wjp> in any case, checking for a null pointer in find_nearby(), right before vec.push_back() probably isn't a bad idea
[14:42:57] <wjp> hey, find_nearby.h uses a static_cast and not a dynamic_cast
[14:43:26] <Colourless> from Game_object to Actor?
[14:43:34] <wjp> yes
[14:43:51] <wjp> ...which succeeds, while the dynamic_cast in 'my' find_nearby fails
[14:44:38] <Colourless> yeah, as you would want
[14:46:18] <Colourless> that code should read something like this:
[14:46:22] <Colourless> FN_OBJECT* fno = dynamic_cast<FN_OBJECT*>(obj);
[14:46:22] <Colourless> if (tiles.has_point(t.tx, t.ty) && fno != 0)
[14:46:22] <Colourless> vec.push_back(fno);
[14:47:15] <wjp> yeah, that's similar to what I have now
[14:47:50] <Colourless> my code change wont allow a NULL pointer to get added
[14:48:11] <wjp> mine too :-)
[14:48:16] <Colourless> the reason i'm not getting a crash is just because static_cast is being used
[14:48:38] * wjp nods
[14:48:46] <Colourless> rather than dynamic_cast like is used for everyone else
[14:49:00] <wjp> I'm still confused about the non-null-pointer crashes there, though
[14:51:00] <wjp> want me to change the one in msvcstuff too?
[14:51:17] <Colourless> yeah
[14:52:42] <Colourless> i wonder which of the 2 sets of find_nearby() (#include or the template) is faster,
[14:53:15] <Colourless> i would guess #ibnc
[14:53:25] <Colourless> #include would be faster
[14:53:48] <wjp> shouldn't the compiler just create the same code in the end?
[14:54:32] <Colourless> yeah, but it would depend on how the optimizer works
[14:54:42] <wjp> true
[14:56:01] <Colourless> as far as I know, templates aren't used in performance critical areas because they aren't as fast as alternative methods. which make me wonder how much faster would thte scalers be if templates weren't used
[14:56:32] <wjp> we could try :-)
[14:57:17] <Darke> wjp: And hopefully not break things? <grin>
[14:57:22] <Colourless> yeah, i am too one day
[14:57:30] <Colourless> s/am/aim/
[14:57:37] <wjp> k, committed.
[14:58:48] <Nadir> can we release now ?
[14:58:55] <Dominus> :-)
[14:58:57] * wjp thinks so :-)
[14:59:10] <Colourless> cvs server: [06:58:24] waiting for nadir's lock in /cvsroot/exult/exult/files/zip
[14:59:10] <Colourless> cvs server: [06:58:54] obtained lock in /cvsroot/exult/exult/files/zip
[14:59:24] <Nadir> I'll see if rpm -tb works
[14:59:28] <Nadir> Colourless: :)
[14:59:29] <wjp> -tb?
[14:59:43] <Nadir> rpm -tb exult-0.96beta1.tar.gz
[14:59:51] <Colourless> you held me up for 30 seconds :-)
[15:00:06] <Nadir> that's the usual timeout for locks
[15:01:03] * Nadir is building a RedHat 7.2 RPM of Exult 0.96beta1
[15:01:22] <wjp> 7.2.. ooh.. you've got a newer one than me :-( *sniff*
[15:06:30] <Dominus> so, we have everything prepared now, haven't we?
[15:07:31] <Nadir> nearly.
[15:07:37] <Nadir> I'll make srpm too
[15:07:47] * Colourless thinks that all the exult coders should use 1 unified method for braces! Remember people we talked about then, when a year ago????
[15:07:54] <Nadir> wjp: 7.2 is called "Enigma"
[15:08:15] <wjp> Colourless: Jeff is the one who does things differently :-)
[15:08:17] <Nadir> braces should be on the same line as the block that opens them. if(expr) {
[15:08:25] <Nadir> while(expr) {
[15:08:27] <Nadir> NOT
[15:08:29] <wjp> ...but not for functions
[15:08:31] <Nadir> if(expr)
[15:08:32] <Nadir> {
[15:08:39] <Nadir> functions are exceptions
[15:08:58] <wjp> the one that really gets on my nerves is:
[15:08:59] <Nadir> It seems that Jeff is the only one who codes like that
[15:09:00] <wjp> if (expr)
[15:09:03] <wjp> {
[15:09:05] <wjp> blah;
[15:09:07] <wjp> }
[15:09:12] <Nadir> awfully unreadable
[15:09:18] <Colourless> agreed
[15:09:33] <wjp> can't we just toss exult through indent or something? :-)
[15:09:58] <Nadir> if you figure the exact set of switches to throw to indent...
[15:10:20] <Colourless> Ctrl-A (select all), Alt-F8 (Format selection) :-)
[15:10:28] * Dominus wonders if that wouldn't wreak havoc with the code (indent or sth)
[15:11:27] <Colourless> gets rid of all oh jeff's braces and leaves everyone elses :-)
[15:11:59] <Darke> It depends upon how you set the switches to indent. <grin> And it's going to create some hefty diffs for the next cvs update for everyone.
[15:12:04] <Dominus> but doing it would be nice, we would probably end up the most active in the SF most active list
[15:12:15] <wjp> heh :-)
[15:12:18] * Darke snickers.
[15:12:19] <Dominus> :-)
[15:12:26] <Colourless> binary file addition/modifications do that :-)
[15:12:55] <wjp> Colourless: does find_nearby.h still work? (I couldn't test it)
[15:13:12] <Darke> Colourless: It appears activity must be based upon the number of bytes of diffs or something.
[15:13:48] <Colourless> wjp, seems fine
[15:13:56] <Colourless> not even 1 warning :-)
[15:14:10] <Colourless> unlike the other day when i had over 1000 errors :-)
[15:15:10] <Nadir> anyone downloaded SF's sourcecode to figure out activity ratios ?
[15:15:17] <Darke> I think gcc gives up after about 30 errors or something. <grin>
[15:15:23] <Nadir> Wrote: /usr/src/redhat/RPMS/i386/exult-0.96beta1-1.i386.rpm
[15:15:44] <Colourless> well, that was 1000+ errors in the linking stage
[15:16:56] <Dominus> phew, I hate it when bugs, I closed get reopened immediately :-)
[15:17:39] <wjp> closed again :-)
[15:17:48] <Darke> Colourless: I don't think I've ever got more then a dozen errors at linking stage. I think I must just be exceptionally lucky or something. <grin>
[15:18:17] <Dominus> hmm, alpha3 was that, when we got "slashdotted" or sth (the most downloads)
[15:18:46] * Darke wonders what this open/closed/open/closed bugs is about. He still doesn't admit the existance of the bug tracker. <grin>
[15:18:56] <Nadir> should the RPM include the html docs ?
[15:19:03] <Colourless> we are talking here that the c/c++ import library wasn't linked. every object file had lots and lots of unresloved externals, which is why there were so many errors
[15:19:14] * Dominus thinks we should assign some bugs to Darke :-)
[15:19:28] <Darke> Colourless: Erk. Now I understand. <grin>
[15:19:33] <wjp> Nadir: I think so
[15:19:57] <Darke> Dominus: You can assign bugs to me if you never want them 'fixed' if you wish. <grin>
[15:20:22] <Nadir> we should also have several packages: exult, exult-tools, exult-studio
[15:20:24] <Colourless> I know. UCXT doesn't work :-)
[15:20:36] * Darke snickers.
[15:20:49] <Colourless> ever going to fix that one? :-)
[15:21:09] <Nadir> how does one create multiple rpms from one spec file ???
[15:21:14] <Darke> Colourless: More appropriately. It works, then it doesn't, then it works, then <gasp!> it doesn't. One of these days I might get it working for good. <grin>
[15:21:40] <Dominus> Nadir: you are right, we should have exultstudio and tools section
[15:22:03] <Nadir> Dominus: I was really talking about RPM, but yeah, also in downloads
[15:22:19] <Dominus> :-)
[15:23:09] <wjp> Nadir: do you have 'Maximum RPM'?
[15:23:51] <Nadir> nope
[15:23:53] <Dominus> some thing I noticed looking at our sf file list: 0.40 was released end of August 2000 and the first Alpha was released end of November 2000. last Alpha released end of August'01, 1st beta end of Novembre'01 :-)
[15:23:53] <wjp> (that's a book, btw)
[15:23:55] * Darke thinks 'Maximum RPM' sounds like a bad action movie.
[15:24:10] <wjp> Nadir: you can find it for free online somewhere
[15:24:17] <Nadir> I know
[15:24:33] <wjp> page 251+ are about subpackages
[15:24:37] <Colourless> so, Exult 1.0 Final is going to be release in November 2002 ?
[15:24:45] <Nadir> http://www.rpmdp.org/rpmbook/
[15:25:19] <Dominus> Colourless: looks like it but I somehow doubt, we want to wait another year :-)
[15:25:33] <Colourless> i think we should annonce that as our release date, just so we can miss it... or beat it :-)
[15:25:58] <Dominus> just like our monthly alpha release :-)
[15:26:24] <Dominus> let's have a roadmap :-)
[15:26:48] * Dominus relizes you just have to type m to have a roadmap in Exult :-)
[15:26:53] <Colourless> what, and act like a real company... :-)
[15:27:08] <Darke> I think out 'alpha' stage must have been like a commercial 'beta' stage, and out beta stage looks to be like the 'version 1.0' of commercial software. So logically our 'version 1.0' is going to be the first service pack. <grin>
[15:27:24] <Nadir> we already have customer support. And it's full of crazy customers !!!
[15:27:25] <Dominus> Colourless: yeah, and then we release premature and close down right after final release
[15:27:33] <Colourless> or the Special Edition :-)
[15:27:40] <Nadir> Dragon Edition
[15:27:46] * Darke giggles.
[15:27:54] <Nadir> Widescreen !
[15:28:09] * Colourless notes that we can already do that :-)
[15:28:23] <Darke> Nadir: Perhaps we could get an electronic signature from Lord British for our Dragon Edition. <grin>
[15:28:29] <Colourless> :-)
[15:28:36] <Dominus> :-)
[15:28:41] <Nadir> 1024x576
[15:29:00] <Nadir> PointlessFeatures(tm)
[15:29:17] <Darke> (crazy customers) We seem to have collected one or too... umm... less then 'complete serious' customers yes. <grin>
[15:29:19] <Nadir> Colourless: yes, but our customers don't know that
[15:29:39] <Colourless> hehe. feature for 1.0 hey?
[15:29:55] <Nadir> "Enable Widescreen support"
[15:30:04] <Colourless> Hehm so we can have exult say, Digitially Signed by Lord British (destination-games.com). I would think EA would get really pissed off at that :-)
[15:30:05] <Nadir> What about playing Exult on multiple heads
[15:30:13] <Darke> Colourless: Binding keys to cheatcodes can be a feature for v1.1.
[15:30:37] <Darke> Colourless: (digitalsign) <fangygrin> Almost certianly I suspect.
[15:30:41] <Dominus> damn: stdout: Couldn't set video mode (1024, 576) at 8 bpp depth: No video mode large enough for 1024x576
[15:30:54] <Nadir> I want Emacs key bindings for Exult
[15:31:34] <Darke> Nadir: No! And no imbeded lisp interpreter either. And it's _not_ going to be able to read mail! <grin>
[15:31:44] <Nadir> And browse the web :)
[15:32:02] <Colourless> :-)
[15:32:10] <Colourless> and for 1.2 Multiplayer :-)
[15:32:19] <Darke> What was the phrase? Every program grows until it can read mail?
[15:32:30] <Nadir> Yes. That's by JWZ
[15:32:56] * Darke IIRCly seems to remember it's mentioned in JARGON as well.
[15:33:07] <Colourless> we are talking here though 1.2 will come out in about the year 2010
[15:33:10] <Dominus> 1.4: support for Ultima 8
[15:33:18] <Nadir> ``Every program attempts to expand until it can read mail. Those programs which cannot so expand are replaced by ones which can.''
[15:33:29] <Nadir> http://www.jwz.org/
[15:33:43] <Nadir> and 1.6 support for U9
[15:33:46] <Colourless> oh no, we had better watch out.
[15:34:01] <Colourless> someone might release an ultima 7 engine that can read mail :-)
[15:34:08] <Darke> Dominus: So we'll have to change the naming of the program again? Didn't we only just remove the comment mentioning exult is a world viewer for ultima7?
[15:34:25] <wjp> there's another one of those comments in gamewin, btw :-)
[15:34:33] <Darke> Colourless: (readmail) Presented on scrolls, or for longer messages in books.
[15:34:43] <Dominus> wjp: I'm still waitng for you to do Exult for U8 in a weekend :-) (as was mentioned not too long ago in the logs, when you looked at the usecode for U8)
[15:34:50] <Colourless> hehe
[15:34:56] <wjp> wasn't that an afternoon?
[15:35:11] <Dominus> I think weekend
[15:35:18] <Colourless> we already know the usecode is in a flex, so it can't be 'that' hard to do :-)
[15:35:29] <wjp> I did spend a few hours staring at U8's usecode, btw. It seems to be quite a bit different from U7's
[15:35:39] <Colourless> u8 style flex of course, which is a little bit different to a u7 flex
[15:36:04] <wjp> I already wrote an 'u8extract' tool to extract those
[15:36:06] <Colourless> u9 also has flex files that are again a little bit different
[15:36:20] <Colourless> wjp, i've written one too
[15:36:26] <wjp> :-)
[15:36:39] * wjp also wrote a shape + map viewer
[15:36:55] <wjp> (with a really broken rendering order)
[15:37:01] <Dominus> he
[15:37:01] <Colourless> :-)
[15:37:14] <wjp> houses are totally inside-out
[15:37:24] <wjp> hmm, maybe I should just reverse the order :-)
[15:37:38] <Colourless> :-)
[15:37:59] <Dominus> wjp: don't do it, I imagine that's how Jeff got tied up with Exult
[15:37:59] <Colourless> from what I remember, you didn't even do sorting
[15:38:12] <wjp> I did later on
[15:38:28] <wjp> and I even added non-fixed objects
[15:38:33] <Dominus> wjp: does it work on Windows?
[15:38:51] <wjp> hmm, haven't tried, but I think it should
[15:39:01] <wjp> you're not getting it, though :-P
[15:39:05] * Darke at least considers that once ucxt is properly written for ultima7 usecode, it should work for ultima8 usecode with a few modifications to the datafiles.
[15:39:08] <Dominus> :-(
[15:39:12] <wjp> (yet)
[15:39:55] <Colourless> darke, that would be if the actual format of u8's usecode was known
[15:40:38] <Dominus> funny that no one bothered much with U8 (until wjp did, of course)
[15:40:59] * Darke grins at Colourless.
[15:41:15] <Dominus> or even try to get the source for that one (well U7 source is lost, but no one ever checked on U8's)
[15:41:37] <Colourless> well, someone (work on u8) had to because wjp used specs written by others
[15:41:45] <Nadir> how complex is U8's usecode compared with U7's ?
[15:41:46] <Dominus> ah, okay
[15:42:23] <Nadir> I have seen a U8 map browser for Linux in the past
[15:43:09] <Darke> Colourless: Perhaps because no one particularly 'likes' u8? (Lack of companions, jumping puzzles, etc, etc) I'm guessing people will start poking around it once exult is 'finished' if just to try and get exult to play it.
[15:43:25] <Nadir> I liked u8
[15:43:32] <Colourless> i like u8 too
[15:43:38] <wjp> yeah, I like it too
[15:43:55] <Nadir> It has a great feel to it
[15:43:56] <Dominus> I liked it sort of, but it was actually more unstable than U7 for me
[15:44:01] * Darke didn't. <grin>
[15:44:05] <Dominus> nice dark feel
[15:44:13] <Nadir> that music !
[15:44:20] <Colourless> the music was great
[15:44:29] <Nadir> I had a Gravis Ultrasound at the time: it was awesome
[15:44:32] <Darke> I didn't get around to playing much of it, it was more then a tad unstable for me.
[15:44:46] <Nadir> u8 never crashed on me
[15:44:46] <Dominus> i would really like U8 running the same way Exult does run U7
[15:45:46] <Nadir> yes
[15:45:50] <Nadir> me too
[15:46:18] <Darke> Slot it in at version 1.2 of exult then? <grin>
[15:46:23] <Dominus> (scalers, higher res, stability (?), nice features)
[15:46:39] <wjp> I wonder how U8's graphics would look scaled
[15:46:46] <Dominus> Darke: or whenever wjp has some afternoon free
[15:46:55] <Colourless> no. 1.2 is mutilplayer ultima 7 !!!!!!!!!
[15:46:59] <Nadir> wjp: add Derek's scaler to your renderer
[15:47:12] <wjp> Dominus: well, it's not like I did anything non-exult this afternoon...
[15:47:14] <Darke> Colourless: Shuffle that to 1.3 and we can fit it in. <grin>
[15:47:17] <Nadir> MUTILplayer ? Is that short for Mutilated players ?
[15:47:18] <Colourless> 1.4 is for ultima 8 (that is, the official announcment)
[15:47:26] <Colourless> hehe
[15:47:47] * Darke can just imagine someone cutting&pasteing that onto the forum.
[15:48:14] <wjp> don't worry... we have a 'delete post' function :-)
[15:48:15] * Dominus points to the dates for those releases
[15:48:18] <Colourless> yeah, I could imagine YOU doing it :-)
[15:48:28] <Dominus> 1.2: 2010
[15:48:32] <Colourless> yeah :-)
[15:48:36] <Dominus> 1.3: 2012
[15:48:37] * Darke looks completely innocent.
[15:48:41] <Dominus> 1.4: 2015
[15:49:05] <Dominus> I don't know if I can wait that long :-)
[15:49:14] <Colourless> so, well have official ultima 8 support by 2015. Cool!!
[15:49:43] * Dominus changes the FAQ accordingly (and that fter I blew that guy off on the mailing list today) :-)
[15:50:04] <Colourless> so, can someone tell me the date that ansi time fails at 32 bit?
[15:50:21] <wjp> wasn't that around 2037?
[15:50:23] <Darke> 2036?
[15:50:43] <Colourless> i thought it was about 2014 ????
[15:51:04] * Colourless thinks it's not 'that' hard to work out :-)
[15:51:48] <wjp> seconds since 1 Jan 1970?
[15:52:13] <Colourless> yeah, i think so
[15:52:29] <wjp> 2^31 seconds would be in 2037 (or maybe 2038)
[15:53:57] <Colourless> 2038 i think
[15:54:43] * Darke decides that thinking about that at this time of the night is an np-complete problem, and goes back to poking at code.
[15:58:00] <wjp> It looks like U8 uses a sorted object list for rendering
[15:58:08] <wjp> (like exult)
[15:58:33] <Colourless> and how can you tell that?
[15:58:52] <wjp> the names of all classes and member functions are in u8.exe
[15:59:04] <Colourless> ah, yes they are aren't they
[15:59:21] <wjp> but there's also a Zbuffer class
[15:59:31] <Colourless> probably like U7's
[15:59:38] <Colourless> just for occlusion culling
[16:00:22] <Colourless> of course that is what all z buffers are used for, but u7's was designed to discard shapes there were completely not visable :-)
[16:01:28] <Nadir> regarding that hardware scaling thread on phorum, OpenGL sounds like a good possibility (MAME does that)
[16:01:36] <Nadir> http://glmame.linuxgames.com/glmame.shtml
[16:02:28] <Dominus> wjp: I guess your extract tool for U8 flexes would be very straightforward and usable in Windows (compiling in mingw?). Can you send me that? I would like to take a peek at U8 sound flx
[16:03:02] <Colourless> all sounds are compressed (IMA ADPCM perhaps)
[16:03:33] <Colourless> all music is XMI's. 2 sets of each song 1 gm, one adlib/opl2/opl3
[16:04:09] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/u8extract.cc
[16:04:17] <Dominus> yeah, but they are in sound.flx and I would like to get that out of there
[16:04:23] <wjp> just say 'u8extract something.flx' and it will unpack it in the current dir
[16:04:34] <wjp> (so I'd run it from a new subdir)
[16:05:32] <Colourless> i actually used ultima 8's music to debug Exults xmidi reader
[16:05:53] --> NadirDragon has joined #exult
[16:06:29] * Dominus is afraid to ask but he is really bad at this: how do I compile a cc with mingw (command?)
[16:07:07] <wjp> g++ -o u8extract u8extract.cc
[16:07:15] <-- Nadir has left IRC (Ping timeout: 181 seconds)
[16:07:17] <Dominus> thanks
[16:07:24] <wjp> (-o = output file)
[16:07:38] <Dominus> got that
[16:07:44] <Dominus> worked
[16:07:44] --- NadirDragon is now known as Nadir
[16:07:48] <Colourless> you think that command is a good one for windows users wjp? :-)
[16:07:56] * wjp sigh
[16:07:58] <wjp> sorry :-)
[16:08:06] <wjp> g++ -o u8extract.exe u8extract.cc
[16:08:08] --> Fingolfin has joined #exult
[16:08:09] <wjp> better? ;-)
[16:08:11] <Colourless> hi
[16:08:12] <wjp> hi
[16:08:19] <Nadir> hi
[16:08:26] <Fingolfin> hi
[16:08:44] <Fingolfin> today Dominus is trying to break the record I assume? :)
[16:08:51] * Fingolfin updates CVS, and starts OS X compile
[16:09:04] <Dominus> hi
[16:09:08] <Nadir> wjp: you could add a "Search #exult logs using google" box in the #exult logs
[16:09:32] <Dominus> Colourless, wjp, it actually worked on its own and put a exe there
[16:09:33] * Darke bows. "Hi Fingolfin."
[16:09:47] <wjp> can google search within a given website only?
[16:09:59] <Fingolfin> yeah
[16:09:59] <Nadir> typical: everyone here, but Jeff...
[16:10:00] <Fingolfin> very useful feature
[16:10:01] <Dominus> i wondered that earlier
[16:10:09] <Fingolfin> usecode usecode usecode
[16:10:10] <Nadir> http://www.google.com/advanced_search
[16:10:51] <Fingolfin> btw, the paperdoll bug, yeah, it was caused by outdated .flx - I simply forgot to attach those to the two mac testers <sigh>
[16:10:54] <Fingolfin> rectified that now
[16:11:08] <Nadir> basically you need to append "site:http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl" to the query
[16:11:09] <Colourless> you caused us problems :-)
[16:11:23] <Nadir> fingolfin==troublemaker
[16:11:29] <wjp> open/close/open/close/open/close... argh
[16:11:40] <Colourless> result: true :-)
[16:11:52] <Nadir> btw, max, as README.axp is only for Alpha users (both of them :) they will know what that extension means...
[16:11:57] <Fingolfin> wjp: he accidetnally re-opened it guess
[16:12:00] <Fingolfin> Nadir: bah!
[16:12:10] <wjp> Fingolfin: twice? :-)
[16:12:11] <Fingolfin> Nadir: <shrug> I don't care overmuch, just was asking
[16:12:17] <Fingolfin> wjp: twice?
[16:12:20] * Fingolfin checks email
[16:12:29] <Fingolfin> ouch
[16:12:43] <Colourless> does exult even compile on Alpha anymore?
[16:12:43] <Darke> Nadir: You're better of storing exult developers in a map. <grin>
[16:12:55] <Fingolfin> wjp: my guess: his browser shows the popup as "open", ignoring the current value
[16:13:05] <Fingolfin> Colourless: not ATM
[16:13:05] <wjp> yes, I think so too
[16:13:11] <Fingolfin> hm, I could try to find christoph
[16:13:37] <Colourless> Exult Beta release delayed. waiting for alpha support :-)
[16:13:40] <Nadir> Fingolfin: you're jealous because you have a measly 604 whereas you really want a 21164 :)
[16:13:46] <Fingolfin> he's afk, and besides, I think christoph has no time ATM :)
[16:13:56] <Fingolfin> Nadir: I don't have a 604
[16:14:10] <Nadir> whatever you have is less than a 21164 :)
[16:14:17] <Darke> Colourless: <grin> How... appropriate.
[16:14:21] <Fingolfin> define "less" in this context :)
[16:14:32] <Fingolfin> Darke: that reminds me of Monkey Island :)
[16:15:23] <wjp> you fight like a cow :-)
[16:15:29] <Nadir> Fingolfin: I meant 21264
[16:16:00] <wjp> (although I can't immediately remember what it was a reply to)
[16:16:08] <Colourless> :-)
[16:17:44] <Fingolfin> wjp: btw, my Avernum 2 box arrived this morning!
[16:17:55] <Fingolfin> a pitty I have no time ATM to try it ...
[16:18:00] <wjp> uh oh... so we won't be seeing you for a while now? :-)
[16:18:41] * Darke boggles. Things are working on his first try. <blinkblink> This can't be right.
[16:21:51] * Dominus wonders how he should go about making the U8 sound files hearable
[16:22:02] <Nadir> Fingolfin: you have a G4 ?
[16:22:47] * Fingolfin nods
[16:23:28] <Nadir> My parents have one too
[16:26:22] <Nadir> I have used one of these http://www.cray.com/images/systems/t3d.gif
[16:27:00] * Darke pouts. You're _evil_.
[16:29:30] <wjp> ah... now I remember why my rendering order is this bad... I haven't used the shape dimensions yet
[16:30:19] <Fingolfin> --enable-std-namespace Honour the std namespace. default no
[16:30:21] <Fingolfin> --> ???
[16:30:26] <wjp> not a clue
[16:30:46] <Colourless> try it :-)
[16:30:50] <wjp> I think Dancer added a few of these last year
[16:31:21] <Colourless> i shouldn't think it would be much of anything
[16:33:43] <wjp> hmm, does anyone know where u8 shape dims are stored? :-)
[16:33:59] <wjp> (3d dims, that is)
[16:35:30] <Fingolfin> bbl
[16:35:31] <Colourless> i don't think anyone here does
[16:35:33] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("Client Exiting")
[16:35:43] * Darke could only guess. <grin>
[16:36:16] <wjp> where are they stored in u7?
[16:36:53] <Colourless> shpdims :-)
[16:36:59] <Colourless> .dat
[16:37:06] <wjp> no such file here :-(
[16:38:02] <wjp> there is a typeflag.dat, though (with 8 bytes/shape)
[16:38:33] <wjp> ?
[16:39:01] <wjp> why did you (try to) DCC send it?
[16:39:22] <Colourless> accident :-)
[16:39:26] <Colourless> drag and drop :-)
[16:39:31] <wjp> heh :-)
[16:39:35] <Colourless> wrong window :-)
[16:40:36] <wjp> works here too :-)
[16:40:45] <wjp> (if DCC would work, that is :-) )
[16:42:14] <wjp> I could try to deduce it from the 2D dims
[16:47:18] <Dominus> wjp: in these docs you have from others there isn't by chance the format of the sfx mentioned and how to decode it? :-)
[16:48:13] <wjp> no, sorry
[16:48:26] <Dominus> didn't think so :-9
[16:48:28] <Dominus> :-)
[16:50:44] * Dominus takes a look at a page that lists the UO sfx format
[17:01:01] * Darke bows. "Night all."
[17:01:05] <wjp> bye
[17:01:19] <Darke> Code compiles and works, and I'm off to sleep. <grin>
[17:04:34] <Dominus> got to go now as well
[17:04:36] <Dominus> see you
[17:04:39] <wjp> bye
[17:04:43] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("got to play Exult now")
[17:18:47] --- wjp is now known as wjp|dinner
[17:48:28] --- wjp|dinner is now known as wjp
[18:03:55] <wjp> I found a problem with replacing the get_chunk()->remove(dragging) by dragging->remove_this(), btw
[18:04:04] <Colourless> it is?
[18:04:06] <wjp> when moving an actor his/her schedule is killed
[18:04:21] <Colourless> ah
[18:04:22] <wjp> although this might be an acceptable consequence of cheating...
[18:05:05] <wjp> maybe we should have virtual 'remove_from_chunk' and 'add_to_chunk' functions for Game_objects?
[18:05:53] <wjp> (called by remove_this, and the drag&drop function)
[18:09:46] <Colourless> it's possible but it's something for another time
[18:09:54] <wjp> yes, of course :-)
[18:09:59] <wjp> I didn't mean now :-)
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[19:28:00] <jameson> Hi!
[19:29:18] <wjp> hi!
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[20:23:33] <Fingolfin> lo
[20:23:36] <Fingolfin> hi christoph!
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[20:26:01] <jameson> Hi Max!
[20:31:20] <Fingolfin> so, will we see an Alpha release of the Beta? :)
[20:32:26] <jameson> ;-)
[20:32:35] <jameson> Not soon, I'm afraid.
[20:33:33] <jameson> I currently have to focus on getting out a FreeSCI release.
[20:33:34] <Fingolfin> tsk tsk tsk!
[20:33:48] <Fingolfin> bah! as if we believed that!
[20:33:50] <jameson> This focus has yielded exactly one commit in the last 5 weeks...
[20:33:58] <jameson> ;-)
[20:33:58] <Fingolfin> I am sure you are telling *them* you are too focused on an exult release!
[20:34:04] <Fingolfin> haha :)
[20:34:49] <jameson> Crap! You've discovered the truth about my Master Plan! ;-)
[20:35:54] <Fingolfin> *that* was your master plan?!? I somehow had the impression it was just a genious way to distract us from the real truth...
[20:36:30] <wjp> he's only trying to make us think that's his master plan :-)
[20:36:33] <jameson> Hah! Did you think I would be foolish enough to reveal my true plan that easily?
[20:36:47] * Fingolfin thinks a moment
[20:36:53] <Fingolfin> hmm
[20:36:57] <jameson> wjp: But can you be sure about that?
[20:36:57] <Fingolfin> yeah
[20:37:02] <wjp> or he's trying to make us think that's not his master plan?
[20:37:11] <Fingolfin> maybe he is now only trying to cover up?
[20:37:12] <Fingolfin> :)
[20:37:27] <wjp> or he's trying to let us think that he thinks that we think that this is his master plan?
[20:37:30] <jameson> I could very well be trying to make you believe that I want you to think it's not the real thing :)
[20:37:43] <jameson> Agh! You think too fast! ;-)
[20:39:02] * Fingolfin tries to pretend he's not confused and shows and (in his opinion) intelligent look
[20:39:26] * jameson wiggles his fingers manically
[20:39:51] <jameson> Excellent, Smithers! Now, release the hounds!
[20:40:01] <wjp> who?
[20:41:41] <Fingolfin> Simpsons
[20:41:45] <Fingolfin> aye, Mr Burns!
[20:42:07] <wjp> hmm, I guess it shows I only saw 3 or 4 episodes :-)
[20:42:38] <Fingolfin> tsk tsk
[20:42:40] <wjp> let's see... there was one with Bart's evil/beastlike twin brother
[20:42:50] <Fingolfin> you really have a big gap in your knowledge there!
[20:43:04] <wjp> one where Bart's little sister created life on a miniature scale...
[20:43:21] <wjp> one where Bart started a new religion or something...
[20:43:26] <wjp> and umm...
[20:43:33] <wjp> uh...
[20:43:53] <wjp> I probably saw more, but I really can't remember :-)
[20:46:09] <jameson> Hmm, I guess the most appropriate approach would be to tell you all the gags from my favourite episodes and tell you that you absolutely have to see these (even though I just spoiled the best parts)...
[20:46:53] <Fingolfin> LOL
[20:46:54] <jameson> If I thought you were serious I might actually do that.
[20:46:55] <wjp> :-)
[20:49:29] <wjp> would any of you happen to know if there's some new email virus recently? One of the email addresses I'm in the .forward of has received ~10 identical emails, all containing a .pif file with mime type Audio/X-WAV
[20:50:10] <wjp> With interesting filenames like 'Sorry_about_yesterday.MP3.pif' or 'card.doc.pif' or things like that
[20:50:21] <Fingolfin> hm, there was something in the news 1-2 days ago
[20:50:29] <jameson> I received one of these MIMEs too, but I don't know anything about that...
[20:50:29] <Fingolfin> also, there is this mega-spamm going on in Germany at least
[20:50:51] <Fingolfin> somebody run a Sex spam email through an automatic translator, and the results are used for mass spammings, with faked senders
[20:51:09] <jameson> What's a '.pif' file, BTW? Some sort of binary executable?
[20:51:30] <Fingolfin> one of the faked senders was an email account of mine, btw (jabbernaut@quendi.de, from another OSS project).... got 3 dozen "mail could not be delievered" mails and some flames "why are you spaming me"...
[20:51:36] <wjp> program information file. IIRC Windows used (still uses?) it for storing information on how to start a program
[20:51:40] <Fingolfin> jameson: used by windows I think
[20:51:40] <Fingolfin> yeah
[20:51:41] <jameson> I get a lot of chinese spam, interestingly (in chinese Big5 encoding...)
[20:51:47] <Fingolfin> exactly, for DOS programs under 3.11
[20:51:50] <Fingolfin> he
[20:52:12] <wjp> 'file' claims it's an executable, btw
[20:52:50] <jameson> Ah, I hadn't bothered to keep it...
[20:53:12] <wjp> I keep most 'interesting looking' spam :-)
[20:53:31] <wjp> oh, this one is called 'info.DOC.scr'
[20:53:38] <wjp> .scr is a screensaver or something?
[20:53:50] * jameson shrugs
[20:54:13] <wjp> md5sums are identical
[20:54:42] <wjp> funny... a 'virus' that randomizes filenames and extensions
[20:54:54] <jameson> I actually like that word, 'to shrug'. I don't think we have a single verb to do that, shrugging is much more complicated in German.
[20:55:12] <wjp> in dutch too, I think
[20:55:40] <wjp> it expresses something like a 'don't care' attitude, right?
[20:55:51] <jameson> I guess they must be doing that a lot over there...
[20:55:57] <wjp> :-)
[20:57:12] <jameson> "No idea, and I don't really feel sufficiently motivated to investigate this any further", IMHO...
[20:57:45] <jameson> Well, "to shrug" _is_ a bit shorter than that...
[20:57:53] <wjp> we have something like "schouders ophalen", which roughly translates to "raising one's shoulders"
[20:59:42] <jameson> "Mit den Schultern zucken" (to twitch one's shoulders) here.
[21:00:55] <Fingolfin> yeah
[21:01:01] <wjp> wow... powici is submitting SI savegames numbered >100
[21:01:15] <wjp> same in dutch & german, nice :-)
[21:01:43] <Fingolfin> not a big surprise, really :)=
[21:01:49] <wjp> no, not really :-)
[21:04:16] --- wjp is now known as wjp|away
[21:04:20] <wjp|away> I'll bbl
[21:19:10] <jameson> Anyone willing to help me out with a small C++ problem?
[21:20:08] <matto> jameson!!! :)
[21:20:24] <matto> virtual functions, jameson? :)
[21:20:40] <jameson> Yes, once again ;-)
[21:21:30] --- wjp|away is now known as wjp
[21:21:48] <wjp> sure, ask away
[21:22:11] <jameson> I still don't understand why the 'const' broke things the last time around, but, well...
[21:22:22] <jameson> Anyway, here's the new problem:
[21:23:09] <jameson> I'm a virtual baseclass (or abstract or whatever they're called), i.e. one with several virtual =0 functions.
[21:23:23] <wjp> abstract, yes
[21:23:29] <jameson> (Sorry for typing so slow, bio-hardware problems.)
[21:23:31] <wjp> (or purely virtual, IIRC)
[21:23:49] <jameson> It has the following abstract member function:
[21:24:29] <jameson> virtual ostream &operator<< (ostream &stream) =0;
[21:24:41] <jameson> s/abstract/virtual/
[21:25:21] <jameson> Needless to say, all implementing classes provide implementations for this.
[21:26:31] <jameson> Now, when trying to build something like 'clog << *obj' with obj :: MyVirtualBaseClass*
[21:26:40] <wjp> hmm, I'm not really an expert on operator overloading, but isn't this 'the wrong way around'?
[21:27:06] <jameson> Quite possible...
[21:27:43] <jameson> Anyway, the compiler claims that there is no such operator provided for the class.
[21:27:45] <wjp> (ie. this would define functions like "obj << clog"
[21:27:48] <wjp> )
[21:28:30] <jameson> OK, that's possible. But how do I tell it that all implementations of this base class will be streamable, then?
[21:28:32] <wjp> I think the way to do this is define a non-member function:
[21:29:12] <wjp> ostream &operator<< (ostream &stream, MyVirtualBaseClass* obj)
[21:29:50] <wjp> (note you have to use a pointer to preserve type information)
[21:29:51] <jameson> But how do I implement that without resorting to a helper function?
[21:30:17] <wjp> what do you mean?
[21:31:19] <jameson> How would I implement that function?
[21:32:01] <jameson> Or can I tag it as virtual despite being a non-member function (but there'd be no vtable to place it in, as far as I understand things...)
[21:32:03] <wjp> hmm, I'd say by calling a 'display(ostream &stream)' member function or something
[21:32:25] <jameson> That's what I meant with the helper function above.
[21:32:25] <wjp> only member functions can be virtual
[21:32:29] <wjp> ah, ok :-)
[21:32:30] <jameson> OK, thanks!
[21:32:44] <wjp> sure, no problem
[21:33:42] * wjp wonders what would happen if you didn't want to use "<< pointer" but "<< object"
[21:35:36] <wjp> hmm, that would probably require you to implement both the operator<<, and the ::display for each subclass
[21:37:34] <wjp> gtg again :-)
[21:37:36] --- wjp is now known as wjp|away
[21:37:47] <jameson> Thanks again!
[22:34:32] --- wjp|away is now known as wjp
[22:52:03] <wjp> I have to go
[22:52:05] <wjp> goodnight
[22:52:11] <jameson> 'night!
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[23:53:57] <jameson> Something tells me I should go now.
[23:54:02] <jameson> Good night!
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