#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 28 Aug 2002 (GMT)

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[03:16:14] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/
[03:16:14] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Fri Aug 9 21:00:39 2002
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[03:19:27] --- Topic for #exult is: Exult: an open-source engine for Ultima 7: http://exult.sf.net/
[03:19:27] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Fri Aug 9 21:00:39 2002
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[09:30:27] <Nadir> 'ning
[09:30:50] * Darke bows. Greetings.
[09:34:13] <Nadir> Darke: to run crusader I guess I need a plain DOX box
[09:34:22] <Nadir> s/DOX/DOS/
[09:35:09] <Darke> Nadir: Either dos, or a windows 95/97 machine with 128Meg or less ram, IIRC.
[09:35:13] <Darke> s/97/98/
[09:35:32] <Nadir> less than 128 ?
[09:35:47] <Nadir> will it run in dosemu ?
[09:36:07] <Darke> Yeah. I seem to remember there being a problem with 128+ ram. It should be in exultbot's logs.
[09:36:14] <Darke> I think so. But I've never tried.
[09:36:29] <Nadir> can't the u8win hack be used on the crusader executable ?
[09:38:21] <Darke> IIRC someone's tried it, and it doesn't work. You'd need to modify the u8win hack itself, although the concept that makes it work should apply to the crusader games.
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[09:52:38] <Dominus> hi
[09:53:33] <Darke> Hi.
[09:55:01] <Dominus> Nadir: on playing Crusader, there is a discussion on if it needs to be limited to 128 RAM
[09:56:39] <Dominus> All I know is that I haven't been able to start a new game in pure dos and I count myself as knowledgable enough to get any dos game running on dos...
[09:57:05] <Dominus> what I didn't try is to set up ramdisks to limit the availlable ram
[09:57:32] <Dominus> (is said to work for U8 which has the same limitation)
[09:57:33] <Nadir> hi dom
[09:57:56] <Nadir> thx
[09:59:19] <Dominus> I tried once to patch the crusader exe in the same style as the U8Win9x ptaches U8.exe but as I had no idea what it actually does I gave up eventually...
[10:13:38] <Nadir> shame
[10:14:28] <Dominus> I contacted the author of the patch some time ago if he would consider doing a CrusaderWin9x patch as well but never heard back from him...
[10:15:14] <Nadir> why didn't anybody reply to Ken Demarest ?
[10:15:43] <Dominus> I planned to a for a long time but never found the time...
[10:17:15] <Darke> I must admit I forgot about it. I'd just gotten a job a week or two before and unfortunately a lot of stuff got forgotten or delayed around then.
[10:18:51] <Darke> As to anyone else, I don't know. *grin* I would hazard a guess that probably most people would have thought the other people were replying privately to him, so they didn't need to.
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[11:11:36] <SB-X> hello
[11:11:41] <Dominus> hi
[11:12:13] <SB-X> any idea when the new version(s) will be out?
[11:13:00] <Dominus> no idea
[11:13:15] <SB-X> i guess its not ready if drcode is still fixing bugs
[11:19:16] <Darke> Hi SB-X.
[11:24:17] <SB-X> lo
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[12:01:03] * Darke wanders off to worship the dark god of somnambulation. Night all!
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[12:14:11] <Nadir> SB-X: when it's ready
[12:27:28] <SB-X> :-)
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[12:28:00] <Colourless> hi
[12:28:02] <SB-X> hi
[12:32:34] <Colourless> Nadir (and darke and dominus too): the same type of hack that was used to get U8 to work in windows should work for crusader too
[12:32:38] <Colourless> however there is a catch
[12:33:04] <Colourless> from what I can tell, the only reason that it got made for u8 in the first place was because of the debugging info in the 2.12 u8 exe's
[12:34:19] <Colourless> porting the hack to crusader would require a lot of work since someone would need to trace through the program patching all the required bit, and unlike u8 it will not be obvious what needs to be patched
[12:35:52] <SB-X> crusader has some kind of internal info
[12:35:57] <Colourless> all one could hope is that the functions that need patching actually remained the same between the games
[12:39:08] <Nadir> my guess is that it's replacing certain reserved opcodes which can only be executed at Ring 0.
[12:49:20] <Nadir> yes, looking at the README file, that's what it does, plus a few other misc things, like memory checking, etc
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[13:09:10] <Nadir> wb
[13:09:16] <Colourless> hi
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[13:09:25] <Dominus> hi
[13:09:29] <Dominus> well, I just hate crusaders control
[13:09:42] <Colourless> why? what's it controls
[13:10:07] <Dominus> Got it to work in plain dos and the keyboard, mouse movement is just awkward
[13:14:00] <SB-X> hi again
[13:14:06] <SB-X> dominus
[13:14:40] <Colourless> Dominus: i've got something you may want
[13:15:06] <Dominus> what may that be?
[13:15:20] <Colourless> a new glidexp dll
[13:15:44] <Dominus> yeah!
[13:15:44] <Colourless> 1 big fix: stops exult and pentagram crashing when exiting fullscreen mode :-)
[13:16:01] <Dominus> oh, that is a most useful fix
[13:16:17] * Dominus jumps up and down!!!
[13:16:25] <Nadir> Dominus: do you have both remorse and regret or just one
[13:16:32] <Dominus> is it on the glidexp page already?
[13:16:38] <Colourless> nope
[13:16:39] <Dominus> Nadir: I have both
[13:17:37] <Dominus> Colourless: what was the problem with the sdl/opengl ?
[13:18:28] <Colourless> the problem was sdl was changing the screen resolution before shutting down opengl
[13:18:41] <Colourless> i had suspected that was the problem
[13:20:27] <Dominus> will you send it over or want me to wait for "official" release on the glideXP page?
[13:20:34] <Colourless> you can have it now if you want
[13:20:41] <Dominus> yes, please
[13:21:22] <Colourless> lets see if this dcc works...
[13:22:13] <Dominus> doesn't look like it
[13:22:18] <Colourless> hmm, doesn't appear so. i'll send it by email
[13:22:24] <Dominus> thanks
[13:25:48] <Colourless> ok sent
[13:26:23] <Dominus> received
[13:26:26] <Dominus> thanks
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[13:50:06] <Nadir> can you use the pentagram viewer with crusader's data files ?
[13:50:17] <Dominik> nope
[13:50:31] <Colourless> it never really worked in the first place
[13:50:41] <Colourless> only shpdisp sort of worked
[13:52:52] <Nadir> well, go and fix it NOW :)
[13:53:02] <Nadir> or maybe I should fix it
[13:53:54] <Colourless> hey, remember that shpdisp is unsupported, and crusader is also unsupported. that 2x unsupported :-)
[13:54:20] <Nadir> is pentagram supported then ?
[13:54:44] <Colourless> yes
[13:54:56] <Colourless> pentagram very unfinished though :-)
[13:55:02] <Dominik> he he
[13:57:22] <Nadir> is u8 supported ?
[13:57:28] <Nadir> okok, I'm being boring
[13:57:44] <Colourless> yes of course it's supported :-)
[13:57:59] <Colourless> but at this stage only 2.12 and 2.13 :-)
[13:58:03] <Nadir> I couldn't actually patch pentagram to support crusader, as I have cvs access
[13:58:14] <Nadir> as I DON'T have CVS access
[13:58:25] <Colourless> hmm why not?
[13:58:42] <Nadir> but I don't really want CVS access, as that would actually mean I should write some code :P
[13:59:26] <Colourless> :-)
[13:59:32] <Colourless> i see, you don't want write access :-)
[13:59:43] <Colourless> you could always use anonymous for read access
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[14:01:28] <m0t0ro1> hi
[14:02:04] <Colourless> hi
[14:02:11] <SB-X> hi
[14:02:28] <Dominik> hi
[14:03:02] <Dominik> well, Virtual PC doesn't run Crusader or U8 (not that I though it would but I wanted to try...)
[14:03:33] <Dominik> ah, wait, I haven't set up my dos in there properly...
[14:05:52] <m0t0ro1> how much HD space does exult need to compile?
[14:06:19] <Colourless> i would guess about 20 mb at least
[14:06:37] <m0t0ro1> that's the maxium size it takes?
[14:06:41] <SB-X> 145MB
[14:06:41] <Nadir> hi
[14:06:47] <SB-X> is what i have now
[14:07:02] <Colourless> 145! that's huge :-)
[14:07:12] <SB-X> yeah
[14:07:15] <Nadir> that's with -g
[14:07:25] <SB-X> i dont remember what tools i compiled also
[14:07:37] <m0t0ro1> that's because I've an AIX account with a 10 MB quota only
[14:07:37] <Nadir> if you tell configure not to use the -g switch, then it's smaller
[14:07:49] <m0t0ro1> and I want to compile exult on AIX
[14:08:00] <Nadir> not good.
[14:08:12] <Colourless> you'll never get it compiled with 10 mb
[14:08:14] <Nadir> if there is lots of space in /tmp you could use that :)
[14:08:22] <SB-X> it is 10MB uncompiled :-)
[14:08:31] <Nadir> I think nobody has compiled it on AIX yet
[14:08:54] <m0t0ro1> I've tried with /tmp but the contents are deleted
[14:09:13] <m0t0ro1> and I can't finish with the compilation
[14:10:11] <Nadir> ha
[14:10:19] <Nadir> then you're stuck
[14:10:26] <m0t0ro1> yeap
[14:10:49] <Colourless> you could attempt to do cross compiling
[14:11:06] <Colourless> of course don't ask me how to do that :-)
[14:11:09] <m0t0ro1> if you tell me how to do that, i could do it :)
[14:11:14] <m0t0ro1> hehe
[14:11:19] <Nadir> yes, you need a PC with the AIX gcc backend
[14:11:31] <Nadir> you can build that
[14:11:34] <m0t0ro1> then I can't
[14:11:49] <m0t0ro1> "backend"?
[14:11:58] <m0t0ro1> can u explain that?
[14:12:02] <Nadir> the way to do it: get cygwin
[14:12:06] <Nadir> get the gcc source
[14:12:40] <Nadir> read the gcc build docs, configure it so that it builds the AIX/PowerPC backend (I guess that's what you want)
[14:13:01] <m0t0ro1> but I don't know what's backend
[14:13:03] <Nadir> build it (will take a looooong while as make bootstrap builds it 3 times)
[14:13:03] <Colourless> one question though is once you have built it how are you going to test it?
[14:13:26] <Nadir> good one colourless: the data set is 20MB alone
[14:14:06] <m0t0ro1> mmm
[14:14:23] <m0t0ro1> there's no way
[14:15:15] <m0t0ro1> do u think I could do something if I use NFS?
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[14:21:05] <Nadir> yes, he could use NFS if he could mount them, but that would require superuser rights
[14:23:15] <Colourless> if he had superuser rights then diskspace wouldn't be a problem would it :-)
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[14:28:14] <Nadir> exactly
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[17:01:45] <Suvroc> hello
[17:03:28] <Colourless> hi
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[17:06:34] <wjp> hi
[17:07:01] <Colourless> hi
[17:07:13] <Suvroc> hi
[17:11:35] <Colourless> i absolutely hated matrix maths at school and university... but here I find myself doing exactly that, and not hating it... hmm, i wonder if it's because I'm am actually doing something practical with it, not theoretical :-)
[17:12:12] <wjp> hehe :-)
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[19:04:38] <wjp> hi
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[19:04:54] <Colourless> wb
[19:04:59] <Dominus> hi
[19:05:14] <Dominus> was crazy and tested u8/crusader support with Virtual PCs...
[19:06:14] <Colourless> and?
[19:06:14] <Dominus> Virtual PC: doesn't support u8 or Crusader but has some low level sound support which works fine in games liek U7 and UW. Emm386 works
[19:07:08] <Dominus> VMWare: U8 works but not Crusader as there is no SVGA support. Maybe Sound device support but not testable as it won't let you use Emm386
[19:08:04] <Dominus> VmWare is very strict in ways that you have to fdisk, format a virtual hard drive and only allows
[19:08:23] <Dominus> cd-rom when properly adding the drivers in autoexec/config
[19:09:37] <Dominus> overall VirtualPC seems more compatibel with Dos games as it supports Emm386 (UW needs it)
[19:10:27] <Dominus> isn't there a third commercial PC-Emulator ?
[19:10:44] <Dominus> next I'm going to check out Dosbox
[19:11:04] <Colourless> if vmware can't use emm386, then how does it run windows?
[19:11:48] <Dominus> for that it seems to have some sort of support but not for pure dos
[19:13:17] <Dominus> it also has svga drivers for both Win9x/W2k
[19:18:46] <Dominus> ah, what about bochs? This might work...
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[19:35:35] <trippo> hi
[19:35:41] <Dominus> hi
[19:35:47] <Colourless> hi
[19:37:01] <trippo> i've got a technical question for you...
[19:37:05] <Suvroc> hi
[19:37:37] <trippo> which compiler do you use for the win32 snapshots?
[19:37:49] <Colourless> gcc 3.1 is used
[19:38:46] <trippo> ok. thanx
[19:39:09] <Dominus> it's all written in readme.win32 in the source
[19:41:54] <trippo> bye
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[20:01:55] <Dominus> phew, bochs is not easy
[20:48:06] <wjp> time for me to go
[20:48:07] <wjp> bye
[20:48:10] <Colourless> cya
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