#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 29 Mar 2002 (GMT)

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[00:46:26] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("good night")
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[05:54:29] <V0|D> hi
[05:54:34] <Darke> Hi.
[05:55:00] <V0|D> how goes it?
[05:56:52] <Darke> Not too bad, just a little tired. Yourself?
[05:57:18] <V0|D> mostly fine. a little hay fever, tis all
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[06:34:38] <Darke> Hi.
[06:48:01] <Kirben> Hi
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[07:13:55] <V0|D> bye
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[09:10:38] <sb-x> hello
[09:11:01] * Darke bows. Hi.
[09:11:58] <sb-x> There should be a message in red letters on the website telling people that crashing is NOT normal and they should report it instead of restarting a saved game. :-)
[09:14:53] * Darke snerks. Agreed!
[09:15:13] <sb-x> Hmm
[09:15:18] <sb-x> What does snerk mean?
[09:15:39] <matto> it means to expel gobs of mucus from the nostrils
[09:15:46] <Darke> The sound of a smirk. <grin> Don't ask me how it came to be.
[09:15:48] <sb-x> ooh
[09:15:53] * sb-x backs away slowly.
[09:15:58] <sb-x> hmm
[09:15:59] <sb-x> heh ok
[09:16:38] * sb-x noddles.
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[09:37:18] <Darke> Hi.
[09:37:57] <sb-x> hi
[09:38:31] <wjp> hi
[09:59:48] <wjp> so... let's see if I can get the call stack into my remote debugger...
[10:00:01] <wjp> remote stepping is pretty cool already, though :-)
[10:02:26] * Darke earperks. "Is this committed as an 'experimental' branch? Or are you just teasing us so we can drool over it?" <grin>
[10:02:38] <wjp> just teasing ;-)
[10:05:20] <wjp> once it's slightly more usable I'll think about committing it somewhere
[10:11:14] * Darke pouts. Evil tempter.
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[10:18:54] <Dark-Star> hi
[10:19:23] <wjp> kind of annoying... I put the debugger in usecode/debugger, currently. I'd like to have it include libusecode, since that already contains a useful disassembling function. However, automake insists on building the debugger directory before the usecode directory. Argh!
[10:19:26] <wjp> hi
[10:20:26] <wjp> the way automake handles dependencies is _so_ broken... how did it ever get to be as commonly accepted as it is?
[10:20:39] * Darke ouches. Umm... dunno.
[10:20:41] <Darke> Hi.
[10:21:41] <wjp> make is perfectly capable of handling several directories at once, but automake has to use some stupid recursive scheme... *sigh*
[10:21:53] * wjp kicks automake another couple of times
[10:23:04] <sb-x> Has anyone here used hexdump?
[10:23:16] <wjp> yeah
[10:24:25] <sb-x> Why does it show data backwards? (MSB first?)
[10:24:40] <wjp> I kind of thought you might ask that :-)
[10:24:49] <wjp> "%07.7_Ax\n"
[10:24:49] <wjp> "%07.7_ax " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x" "\n"
[10:25:08] <wjp> stick that in a file ~/hexdump.fmt, and run it with hexdump -f ~/hexdump.fmt
[10:26:48] <sb-x> AAah!
[10:27:01] <sb-x> I don't know how you knew what I was going to ask, but thank you it is correct now.
[10:27:58] <wjp> np :-)
[10:28:55] <sb-x> Why does it show it the other way by default?
[10:29:34] <wjp> probably something to do with x86 being little-endian
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[10:30:57] <sb-x> i thought the format it showed it in was big-endian?
[10:31:09] <wjp> yes
[10:31:38] <wjp> but apparently it assumes the words it reads are stored little-endian
[10:32:06] <sb-x> they are not?
[10:32:16] <wjp> sometimes they are, sometimes they aren't
[10:32:33] <sb-x> this is a file i made by hand with ghex
[10:32:47] <sb-x> i put lsb first
[10:32:56] <sb-x> but then when i showed it with hexdump it was msb first
[10:33:29] <sb-x> it is only 55 bytes btw :)
[10:33:51] <Dark-Star> maybe hexdump converts the words to "human readable" numbers?
[10:33:58] <wjp> Dark-Star: yeah
[10:34:02] <wjp> that's the idea, anyway
[10:34:16] <wjp> it kind of fails miserably when the words aren't word-aligned
[10:34:22] <sb-x> hmm yeah that was is more readable i guess, for big numbers
[10:34:32] <sb-x> heh
[10:34:41] <sb-x> my file was not
[10:34:56] <sb-x> it was mixing a segment offset with the last character in a string
[10:35:02] <sb-x> :-)
[10:35:18] <wjp> that was the effect it was having on usecode files too
[10:35:28] <wjp> I got fed up with it and wrote a custom format
[10:35:49] <sb-x> Oooh
[10:35:52] <sb-x> i understand
[10:36:43] <sb-x> doesn't emacs have a hex view thing?
[10:39:56] <wjp> quite possibly :-)
[10:40:22] <wjp> M-x hexl-mode
[10:49:30] <Dark-Star> wjp: any progress on the u8 shape unpacker?
[10:49:45] <wjp> some, but still not finished
[10:50:39] <sb-x> oh joy, i have looked at the hexdump man page and figured out how to show ascii characters to the right of the numbers
[10:51:12] * sb-x merges that with the format file wjp showed him.
[10:52:02] <wjp> hm, you can do that?
[10:52:29] <sb-x> hmm, not necessarily ascii, but it says in the default character set
[10:52:51] <wjp> but can you display a single input character multiple times?
[10:52:53] <sb-x> i took the "\n" off the end of the format
[10:53:01] <sb-x> and put " " "%_p"
[10:53:07] <sb-x> and then put the "\n" back
[10:54:16] <sb-x> the right side is showing the same input characters as the left side so i guess that would be yes
[10:56:01] <wjp> what exactly does your format look like now?
[10:56:32] <sb-x> my format file?
[10:56:38] * wjp nods
[10:57:34] <sb-x> "%07.7_Ax\n"
[10:57:40] <sb-x> "%07.7_ax " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x " /1 "%02x" /1 "%02x"
[10:57:40] <sb-x> " " "%_p"
[10:57:40] <sb-x> "\n"
[10:57:58] <wjp> ah, 3 separate lines?
[10:58:24] <sb-x> 4
[10:58:33] <wjp> uh, yeah, 4 :-)
[10:59:03] <wjp> cool, didn't know you could do that
[10:59:04] <wjp> thanks
[10:59:50] <sb-x> np me either until a few minutes ago
[11:00:13] <sb-x> now can you tell me what the asterisk at the second to last line of my output means?
[11:00:35] <wjp> hm
[11:00:47] <wjp> usually it means it left out several lines of zeroes
[11:00:58] <wjp> but not here
[11:01:32] <Dark-Star> Maybe it means it left out several equal lines?
[11:01:35] <sb-x> if i take the top line out of the format file the offset indicator after it is gone
[11:02:45] <sb-x> i think it does mean it left out zeroes
[11:02:59] <sb-x> in this case i know that all that is after that is zeroes
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[11:03:57] <Dark-Star> ok I'm leaving again... bye
[11:04:03] <Darke> Bye.
[11:04:04] <sb-x> bye
[11:04:06] <wjp> bye
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[11:04:55] <wjp> if you use "-v" it doesn't replaces lines by *, btw
[11:07:54] <sb-x> hmm ok cool
[11:07:59] <sb-x> i will be using that
[11:17:17] <sb-x> cya
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[12:13:58] <olaf> ha ha ha
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[12:14:12] <olaf> the Olaf is here
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[12:14:24] <-- olaf was kicked from #exult by Colourless (go away)
[12:14:29] <Colourless> hi
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[12:14:57] <olaf> bad karma for you mr Colourless
[12:15:06] <Colourless> like i care
[12:16:10] <olaf> make me an op
[12:16:45] --- Colourless gives voice to olaf
[12:16:53] <olaf> oh yay, now my life is complete
[12:17:30] <olaf> exultbot
[12:17:38] <olaf> make me an op please
[12:18:48] * olaf slaps olaf around a bit with a large trout
[12:19:05] * olaf slaps matto around a bit with a large trout
[12:19:08] <wjp> Colourless: having fun? ;-)
[12:19:14] <Colourless> it's not me :-)
[12:19:25] * olaf slaps wjp around a bit with a large trout
[12:19:43] <Colourless> olaf is a strange individual who tried exult once, and didn't like it
[12:20:01] <wjp> what?! Good thing you already kicked him then
[12:20:18] <olaf> it kept crashing and i almost finished it but started playing something else.. Freespace 2
[12:20:19] <wjp> :-)
[12:20:31] <olaf> the truth hurts
[12:21:50] <olaf> so are their any chicks in here?
[12:22:04] * wjp sighs
[12:23:12] <olaf> hmm where did they go WJP?
[12:23:36] <wjp> you scared them off. There were _dozens_ of girls in here just before you arrived
[12:24:09] <olaf> oh
[12:24:22] <olaf> then i apologise
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[12:24:56] <olaf> hey he got ops
[12:25:06] <Colourless> so?
[12:25:32] <olaf> well, i want to have ops too, or do i need to take a test to earn my throne?
[12:25:45] * olaf thinking about girls
[12:25:59] <olaf> maybe i could persuede some women from elsewhere to join here?
[12:26:06] <Colourless> we are a bubch of programmers... you think they will stay?
[12:26:12] <wjp> lol
[12:26:26] <olaf> i heard computer nerds get more sex so maybe they might
[12:26:53] <olaf> back in a jiffy #sex here we come!
[12:27:13] <Colourless> what and find a bunch of guys pretending to be girls? :-)
[12:27:23] <olaf> if it will earn me ops, yes
[12:27:41] <wjp> getting op in here generally requires writing huge amounts of code for exult
[12:28:24] <olaf> oh wait, i just realised something
[12:28:52] <olaf> "Open Projects Net is a special-purpose network which exists to
[12:28:52] <olaf> - provide facilities to communities involved with free and open
[12:28:52] <olaf> - source software and similar pursuits, as well as to encourage an
[12:28:52] <olaf> - environment in which community members can improve their
[12:28:52] <olaf> - communication and coordination skills
[12:29:07] <olaf> i don't think there are women here
[12:29:21] <wjp> hehe :-)
[12:30:38] <olaf> and what's this.... no hax0r activity, porn or warez..... ok then
[12:30:56] <Colourless> you know the exult team does not condone trading in warez
[12:31:15] <olaf> i see
[12:31:32] <olaf> wait, there is hope
[12:31:48] <-- olaf was kicked from #Exult by Colourless (Colourless)
[12:32:22] <wjp> you know you just banned yourself, right?
[12:32:25] <wjp> :-)
[12:32:26] <Colourless> yeah
[12:33:29] * Darke taps his paw, waiting for someone to kick Colourless. <grin>
[12:36:15] <Colourless> wjp, are you getting olafs stupid messages
[12:36:26] * wjp nods
[12:36:49] <Colourless> did that last one, make ANY sense?
[12:36:55] <wjp> malformed german
[12:38:18] <wjp> at least, it looks malformed to me
[12:38:40] <Colourless> it should be, it was translated to german by altavista :-)
[12:38:54] <wjp> that would explain :-)
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[12:48:18] <olaf> ha haaaaaaaa
[12:48:40] <olaf> oh nevermind
[12:48:43] <olaf> bye bye
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[12:50:01] <wjp> ok, that was weird
[12:51:22] <Darke> olaf? Isn't his default state weird?
[12:58:00] <wjp> did you manage to figure anything out about that HASH_MAP situation last night? (or this morning?)
[13:01:52] <Darke> I haven't really had a chance to look. Been studing most of the day, and am currently still trying to work out why the ext32'ed function isn't loading correctly.
[13:05:38] <wjp> hm, problems with the header or the opcodes?
[13:08:53] <Darke> Header for some reason. I'm reading: <0xFFFF> <16bit id> <32bit funcsize> <32bit datasize>. It gets the 0xFF, and the correct function id. Then it gets some very large values for FuncSize and DataSize.
[13:09:08] <Darke> s/0xFF,/0xFFFF,/
[13:09:25] <wjp> which values?
[13:09:49] <Darke> Reading Function: 02C1
[13:09:49] <Darke> extFuncID: 2C1
[13:09:49] <Darke> extFuncSize: A0108F2
[13:09:49] <Darke> extDataSize: 7420166F
[13:13:33] <wjp> hm, strange
[13:16:57] * wjp would try stepping through it in gdb
[13:20:17] <Darke> Already tried unfortunatly. It didn't help at all. But considering the code currently looks like this:
[13:20:30] <Darke> ucf._funcid = Read2(f);
[13:20:30] <Darke> if(options.very_verbose)
[13:20:30] <Darke> cout << "\tReading Function: " << setw(4) << ucf._funcid << endl;
[13:20:30] <Darke> DEBUG_READ_PAIR(" extFuncID: ", ucf._funcid);
[13:20:30] <Darke> ucf._funcsize = Read4(f);
[13:20:31] <Darke> DEBUG_READ_PAIR(" extFuncSize: ", ucf._funcsize);
[13:21:26] <Darke> Unless I'm missing something obvious, I don't really see what the problem could be. The code is almost identical to the one that reads the 'normal' functions, except it does Read2 rather then Read4.
[13:22:10] <wjp> and the usecode file didn't accidently get corrupted somehow?
[13:23:53] <Darke> Not that I know of. I ripped a SI usecode file that I knew worked, replaced the single function with the one you gave me, and glued it back together. All the function up until this one decode 'perfectly'. It just dies on it.
[13:24:53] <wjp> I'd check a hexdump of the usecode file. rip could very well be broken
[13:27:34] <Darke> Ahh. I just tried to 'rip all' that usecode file, and it tried to create a rather large 02C1.uco file. It looks like something broke. Hmm...
[13:31:32] <Darke> This is a hexdump of the first line of that usecode.FR.book.new file you gave me:
[13:31:33] <Darke> 0000000 ffff 02c1 08f2 0a01 166f 7420 2075 656e
[13:31:48] <wjp> uh, it is?
[13:32:04] <Darke> It looks like the code is right. And the file must have been corrupted.
[13:32:13] <wjp> this is what it looks like here: FF FF C1 02 F2 08 01 00 C1 01 01 00
[13:33:42] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/usecode.FR.book.new
[13:33:56] <Darke> Hmm... ok. I have the defualt byte ordering of hexdump, so IIRC, it's going to have them around the wrong way, but it really looks broken after the first few bytes.
[13:34:18] <wjp> yes, that file is broken
[13:34:57] <wjp> you do still have the f20801 part, though
[13:37:50] <wjp> the sequence with which it's been overwritten looks like it could be from around offset 0x2000
[13:39:29] * Darke nods. And it seems to work better. He's getting it crashing still on him, but at least it's giving him some sane numbers. <grin>
[13:40:51] * Darke squishes an 'unsigned short' which should now be an 'unsigned int'.
[13:41:04] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/debugging2.png
[13:41:35] * Darke happybounces. It's giving him an error that it doesn't know about the opcode. It works!
[13:41:51] * Darke ooohs and drools again. You're Evil!
[13:41:56] <wjp> nice :-)
[13:42:17] <wjp> *grin*
[13:45:19] <wjp> how far are you with the opcode support?
[13:45:27] <wjp> did you already do 32 bit offsets?
[13:48:12] <Darke> Not at the moment. But thankfully that's 'easy'. <grin> The problem is clearing out all these 'unsigned short's floating around in the code.
[13:49:05] <wjp> hm, I see
[13:49:17] * wjp had the same thing with wud/wuc
[13:50:35] <Darke> The two problems I have, is 1) that ucxt very much grew from ucdump, which used all these icky datatypes so I 'had to' too, and 2) I can't just do a search and replace, since some of the code will need the correct types for conversion and output. Such as calculating relative offsets with 16bit types.
[14:13:23] * Darke converts to 'unsigned int's and it doesn't appear he's broken any of the old 'read a normal usecode file' code...
[14:25:59] * wjp sends data stack to debugger too...
[14:26:11] <wjp> I should really start thinking about the UI a bit
[14:29:14] <wjp> things to display: main code window (either disassembly or source), call stack, stack, locals, breakpoints
[14:29:24] <wjp> possibly watches
[14:31:13] <wjp> maybe I should put each of these in a separate window, so you can place everything anywhere
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[14:46:05] <Darke> Could be useful, OTOP, it could also be a mess anytime someone wants to use the debugger, they need to fiddle with the placement of half a dozen windows.
[14:47:59] <wjp> ah well, I wouldn't know how to support multiple windows anyway, so I'll just stick with a single window for now :-)
[14:48:02] * Darke has that 'problem' with GIMP. He just finds himself overwhelmed with windows on the odd occasion. <grin> It does help with customisation though.
[14:48:13] <Darke> Sounds good. <grin>
[14:49:01] <wjp> any idea if GTK/glade support something like docking?
[14:49:10] <Darke> From an email entitled "The dark (chocolate) side of Easter": http://members.toast.net/scottm/HappyEaster.jpg <grin>
[14:49:27] * Darke is unsure. He's not really played with them.
[14:49:49] <wjp> something like having two dock areas (one vertical next to the code, and one horizontal beneath the code)
[14:50:11] <wjp> and then you could put each of the 'extra' windows in either place, with tabs appearing if you put multiple windows in one area
[14:50:26] <wjp> I think the Borland IDE's do something like that
[14:50:37] * wjp grins at jpg
[14:53:11] <Darke> <nod> That's how KDev also does it, although you can theoretically have 'infinate' areas to place things, since there are 9 'areas' in the main window, then in each area there is apparently another 9 areas and so on.
[14:55:54] * Darke quite liked that jpg, it certainly give you an answer to give, when people ask where you start eating on your chocolate rabbit... <grin>
[15:05:00] <wjp> hehe :-)
[15:07:02] * Darke decides to sleep _now_ before he gets sufficiently tired to forget to quit again. <grin> "Night."
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[15:09:01] <wjp> hi
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[15:30:31] <Nadir> wjp: gtk has docking
[15:31:22] <wjp> hi
[15:31:23] <wjp> cool
[15:32:11] <Nadir> although my gtk is very rusty
[15:32:47] <wjp> my gtk is non-existant :-)
[15:34:36] <wjp> glade/libglade work pretty well, though
[15:41:28] <Nadir> they are so cool.
[15:41:35] <Nadir> got to go now. happy easter to all
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[17:36:34] <wjp> hi again
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[19:59:22] <wjp> hi
[19:59:51] <Fingolfin> yo
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[20:15:27] * wjp is having fun with glade
[20:18:03] * wjp is not having quite as much fun with usecode
[20:18:25] <wjp> Fingolfin: you'd prefer it if I didn't use stringstreams, right?
[20:20:08] <Fingolfin> hm, yeah, since then I will get a headache explaining other ppl how to compile it
[20:20:22] <Fingolfin> and I will have a slight one, too, to get me a working version of it
[20:20:33] <wjp> I think I might just include the sstream header in exult
[20:20:36] <wjp> it's only 190 lines
[20:20:43] <wjp> oh, wait 225
[20:20:49] * wjp can't count
[20:21:02] <wjp> is streambuf ok?
[20:38:12] <Fingolfin> no sstream here, streambug.h exists, though
[20:38:40] <Fingolfin> ./fstream
[20:38:40] <Fingolfin> ./fstream.h
[20:38:40] <Fingolfin> ./iostream
[20:38:40] <Fingolfin> ./iostream.h
[20:38:41] <Fingolfin> ./streambuf.h
[20:38:41] <Fingolfin> ./strstream
[20:38:43] <Fingolfin> ./strstream.h
[20:38:45] <Fingolfin> -> that what I have
[20:38:49] <wjp> strstream?
[20:39:29] <Fingolfin> good question... think this is a pre-standard header or so
[20:39:38] <wjp> I have it too
[20:39:57] <Fingolfin> you use gcc, don't you :-)
[20:40:26] <wjp> so?
[20:40:34] <wjp> you don't have sstream and use gcc too :-)
[20:40:42] <Fingolfin> -> I am not sure it will be on windows, for example
[20:41:31] <Fingolfin> but my OS 9 compiler has it, too
[20:41:37] <Fingolfin> which is a good sign
[20:42:12] <wjp> I think the easiest would be to just include our own copy of sstream
[20:42:36] <wjp> it's really hardly more than a connector between streambuf and ostream
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[23:05:09] <wjp> Fingolfin: http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/debugging4.png ;-)
[23:05:20] * wjp is happy
[23:09:08] <Fingolfin> aye caramba :-)
[23:09:18] <Fingolfin> looks nice! how did you fake that picture? =)
[23:09:28] * wjp slaps Fingolfin with a large trout
[23:09:46] * Fingolfin is thwacked against the next wall
[23:09:49] <Fingolfin> ouch, that hurt =)
[23:10:00] <wjp> :-)
[23:10:01] <Fingolfin> nice job (at least it looks nice)
[23:10:31] <wjp> everything seems to be working, too
[23:10:56] <Fingolfin> cool
[23:10:56] <wjp> I'm not quite happy with the way the interface looks/feels, but I'll work on that later
[23:11:40] <wjp> and there's still lots of info missing. (local vars, most notably)
[23:13:36] <Fingolfin> sure, hey, rome wasn#t built in one day
[23:13:52] <wjp> yeah, I know :-)
[23:14:08] <wjp> how much time of those two weeks do I have left? ;-)
[23:14:12] * Fingolfin thinks they probably shifted the announced release date several times, and the first version sure was buggy enoug
[23:14:21] <wjp> hehe :-)
[23:14:34] <wjp> it even burned down because of a bug in the goverment once :-)
[23:15:02] <wjp> ...and then there was that security hole that caused it to be conquered...
[23:15:09] <Fingolfin> yeah, wasn#t easy to fix, that one =)
[23:15:20] <Fingolfin> in the end it was all bloatware, really
[23:18:09] <wjp> hm, currently the debugger pulls in the entire libusecode... the only reason it doesn't need things like libobj is probably because it leaves out the right .lo files from libusecode
[23:18:32] <wjp> maybe I should split up libusecode into a pure usecode part and a game-related part
[23:18:56] <wjp> (or better yet get rid of that stupid recursive automake system, but I doubt that's going to happen)
[23:32:01] <wjp> I should go
[23:32:03] <wjp> goodnight
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