#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 29 Mar 2004 (GMT)

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[12:11:40] <Colourless> hi
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[15:43:04] <artaxerxes> hi all
[15:43:21] <artaxerxes> updated package for zaurus port is on its way
[15:43:32] <Colourless> hi
[15:43:32] <artaxerxes> (still compiling atm)
[15:44:31] <artaxerxes> interesting news about Oz in slashdot couple hours ago
[15:49:35] <artaxerxes> regarding the Oz equivalent of RIAA, saying the sales of CD soared, which show file sharing was not an issue
[15:51:53] <Colourless> lies, damn lies, and statistics. They didn't lie, they just creatively used their statistics
[15:52:10] <Colourless> Yes, CD single levels when down, so that's all they talk about :-)
[15:52:54] <Colourless> fact of the matter is this, prolific file sharing requires broadband, and broadband isn't all that common here.... yet
[15:53:48] <Colourless> maybe in 2 years times when more people have broadband things might be different. But then in 2 years time people may be more hesitant about file sharing
[15:55:03] <artaxerxes> what's the issue with broadband in Oz? I've read of couple times it's not real popular or easy to get.
[15:55:24] <Colourless> the issue is mostly one of cost
[15:56:20] <artaxerxes> how bad is it? Here: full cable = CAD$50 (US$30), light cable = CAD$25 (US$15)
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[15:57:46] <Colourless> pretty much your only option for most people is ADSL which starts at $30AUD (~$20US) for 256/64 200 MB
[15:59:10] <Colourless> increasing speeds and download limits starts getting real high, real quick
[16:00:58] <artaxerxes> I've got light cable here (with Rogers, Inc) and the deal is about CAD$25 for unlimited use, at about the same speed you mention
[16:01:11] <artaxerxes> maybe even a bit slower
[16:02:46] <artaxerxes> so it seems yours isn't too bad. I'd hate to be in Europe, actually, where most access was dialup (at least when I was there, 5+ years ago)
[16:04:43] <Colourless> most access here is dialup. Hell, *I* don't even have broadband :-)
[16:06:07] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[16:06:24] <Colourless> ...yet
[16:06:41] <Colourless> planning on getting ADSL shortly
[16:07:34] <artaxerxes> I was reading an article about the fact you could barely keep your system up to date because the download size for security patches or service packs would take literally days on dialup to d/l
[16:08:45] <artaxerxes> the writer even mentioned the 135 MB d/l for Microsoft update, where they said it would take 1.5 hours on a 28.8 modem! ;-)
[16:09:24] <artaxerxes> it takes *me* 1.5 hours to d/l 135 MB on light cable!
[16:09:42] <Colourless> actually, that's not entirely true about windows updates
[16:09:53] <artaxerxes> (tried it just yesterday when I d/l Gentoo minimal 2004.0)
[16:10:21] <Colourless> after a while MS releases cumulative patches that combine all the previous fixes into 1 package
[16:10:22] <artaxerxes> well, I can't recall which particular updates the guy wanted to d/l
[16:10:33] <Colourless> since many of the fixes change the same files, it make it a lot smaller
[16:11:27] <Colourless> so even from a fresh install of windows it's not difficult to become up to date
[16:11:30] <artaxerxes> If I find the article, I'll post the link. Still fun to read anyways. The guy ended up bringing this friend's machine to his home where he had fast access to update the machine
[16:13:31] <Colourless> if you are installing winxp then the first thing you want to do after that is install SP1. Now for me it helps that i've got it on CD so thats saves lots of time.
[16:14:16] <artaxerxes> that's also what MS is considering. Offering ($?) CDs with all the updates for people with slow connections
[16:14:50] <Colourless> not considering... they are doing it, and for free IIRC
[16:15:57] <artaxerxes> which is good
[16:15:58] <artaxerxes> brb
[16:22:56] <artaxerxes> b
[16:32:38] <artaxerxes> the exult package for zaurus is ready. Should I upload to sf or should I wait until wjp is around?
[16:33:10] <Colourless> if it's rc2 then upload it
[16:35:33] <artaxerxes> nope, it's 1.1.11cvs
[16:36:07] <Colourless> then i don't know what needs to be done
[16:36:10] <artaxerxes> I haven't figured out how to get the rc2 cvs tree, so I just do a "cvs update" eveytime
[16:36:16] <artaxerxes> s/eveytime/everytime/
[16:36:35] <Colourless> you need to use tags
[16:37:49] <Colourless> you will want to do:
[16:37:59] <artaxerxes> -r
[16:39:11] <artaxerxes> cvs update -r rc2 ??
[16:39:15] <Colourless> no
[16:39:38] <Colourless> it will be something like 1-1-11rc2
[16:39:45] <Colourless> but that's not it either
[16:40:25] <Colourless> i'll have it for you in a sec
[16:40:54] <artaxerxes> Release1110rc2
[16:41:19] <artaxerxes> (I think)
[16:41:37] <artaxerxes> at least, that
[16:41:48] <artaxerxes> at least, that's what cvs browse from sf shows
[16:42:03] <Colourless> yes
[16:42:26] <artaxerxes> cvs update -r Release1110rc2
[16:42:45] <Colourless> yeah, or cvs co -r Release1110rc2 in a different directory
[16:43:18] <artaxerxes> nice, I'll try that.
[16:43:45] <artaxerxes> just y curiousity, is there any issues if I make cvs releases instead of official ones for zaurus?
[16:44:51] <Colourless> well, they wont be part of the official release list
[16:58:57] <Colourless> in the Z version of exult, how does the stylus work?
[16:59:14] <artaxerxes> as a single button device
[16:59:28] <artaxerxes> as if you left clicked
[17:00:06] <Colourless> i was meaning in exult :-)
[17:00:26] <Colourless> i know how the generalities of how a stylus works :-)
[17:01:10] <artaxerxes> as I said, as if you left-clicked. So you move with the directional pad and you click on items by tapping on them once, and you d-click on items by d-tapping. Same idea for dragging.
[17:01:28] <artaxerxes> I'm not sure if that's what you meant
[17:01:55] <Colourless> ok
[17:02:21] <Colourless> wasn't sure if you didn't have it bound to move in exult
[17:12:02] <artaxerxes> it would be a pain, since you couldn't drag items or click to identify or to start conversation etc
[17:12:32] <Colourless> 'T' for target mode could switch modes
[17:13:40] <artaxerxes> Actually, I was thinking of a command to switch mouse handedness. I could then assign this command to a button on the Z to switch easily.
[17:15:13] <Colourless> I've been attempting to figure out how exactly things should work with the up and coming pocket PC port
[17:15:16] <artaxerxes> pb is, the exult code is loaded with reference to SDL_button, so it would be difficult to change it.
[17:15:28] <artaxerxes> ohoh... some revelations?
[17:15:44] <Colourless> unlike the Z it doesn't have a keyboard meaning it control scheme is greatly restricted
[17:15:52] <Colourless> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/exultppc2k3.jpg
[17:17:04] <Colourless> exult finally compiles and runs on the damn thing :-)
[17:17:20] <artaxerxes> maybe using the center button on the pad to switch then?
[17:17:28] <artaxerxes> great job Colourless !
[17:18:10] <Colourless> yeah i've got like 5 buttons i can use
[17:18:25] <artaxerxes> wouldn't that particular orientation implies cheating?
[17:18:44] <Colourless> that orientation isn't how things are going to be :-)
[17:18:55] <artaxerxes> ok! ;-) Although it looks nice
[17:19:04] <Colourless> one of the has to be the menu. Another has to be combat. I'm thinking another for Target mode (so you don't have to double tap).
[17:19:22] <artaxerxes> I'll tell the ones I have:
[17:19:33] <artaxerxes> 12 buttons totals:
[17:19:44] <artaxerxes> 4 direction buttons on the pad: movement
[17:19:52] <artaxerxes> cancel button: Esc
[17:19:58] <artaxerxes> ok button: enter
[17:20:07] <artaxerxes> middle button in the pad: space
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[17:20:15] <artaxerxes> home button: combat
[17:20:16] <Colourless> i can also use the vol+- rocker, record button and i'm pretty sure the power button, BUT the power button may not actually send a key code on the real device
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[17:20:32] <Dominus> hi
[17:20:37] <artaxerxes> address book: target mode (T)
[17:20:38] <artaxerxes> hi Dominus
[17:21:56] <Dominus> Colourless: looks nice
[17:21:59] <artaxerxes> contact: inventory
[17:22:07] <artaxerxes> menu: use keys
[17:22:14] <artaxerxes> email: spellbook
[17:23:27] <artaxerxes> actually the correct and uptodate list is on:
[17:23:54] <artaxerxes> http://exult.sourceforge.net/docs.php#zaurus_tidbits
[17:24:09] <Colourless> target mode and face stats will give you an easy 2 click method of accessing both inventories and zstats
[17:24:50] <artaxerxes> true... yet it is still very convenient to have your own button. I use it all the time
[17:25:44] <artaxerxes> I'd be concerned to use the power button. On the Zaurus, the "Cancel" button will power off if held for 2s
[17:26:07] <Colourless> yeah i don't think it would be a good idea
[17:26:09] <artaxerxes> actually, not power off... go in standby mode
[17:26:35] <Colourless> i might run the emulator and see what it does if i push it for a bit
[17:26:38] <artaxerxes> good thing your power off is quite away from the other buttons
[17:28:11] <artaxerxes> is the pocketpc running a x86 compatible cpu or is it an ARM?
[17:28:17] <Colourless> ARM4
[17:28:52] <artaxerxes> so, compiling on your machine for the pocketpc emulator does in fact create a x86 binary, right? (that's what happen on Linux)
[17:28:58] <Colourless> yeah
[17:29:05] <Colourless> for the emulator
[17:29:12] <artaxerxes> same here
[17:29:36] <artaxerxes> it's good to know. You might see some difference between the 2.
[17:29:41] <Colourless> just a matter of changing the target in EMVC
[17:31:12] <artaxerxes> how's the installation package for PPC?
[17:31:44] <Colourless> there isn't one :-)
[17:31:52] <artaxerxes> ouch!
[17:32:23] <artaxerxes> I'd thought there'd be a .exe to automatically put everything where it needs to be.
[17:32:40] <Colourless> this is a windows machine ;-)
[17:32:48] <Colourless> you put stuff anywhere you want :-)
[17:32:54] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[17:33:05] <Colourless> the device even has a registry
[17:33:12] <artaxerxes> gotta go for lunch... bbl
[17:33:28] <Colourless> what you'd normally do would be just copy exult and the games to a flash card
[17:45:03] <Dominus> he he, will make interesting entries in the docs. Written by someone who gets it told by someone who only used it on an emulator...
[17:46:41] <Colourless> :-)
[17:49:51] <Colourless> as far as I know, there might actually be some sort of package builder, but i don't have it if it exists
[17:51:16] * Colourless found the required documentation
[17:51:22] <Colourless> packages are cab files :-)
[17:52:06] <Colourless> and i probably have the program to build them
[17:52:55] <Colourless> but i don't think i'd bother
[18:27:47] <Colourless> uh oh.... some new Pocket PC's can run in 'high' resolutions
[18:28:06] <Colourless> upto 640x480
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[18:29:24] <Colourless> which would mean that scaling is required
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[19:16:24] <Dominus> I wonder if the PocketPCs are strong enough to handle scaling :-)
[19:42:21] <artaxerxes> b
[19:42:59] <artaxerxes> Dominus: I guess the 400 MHz ones might. Z probably couldn't cope.
[19:44:14] <Dominus> I guess when they do 640x480 they are running fast enough as well
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[21:03:22] <wjp> well, that was that
[21:03:32] * wjp is now "drs. wjp" ;-)
[21:12:21] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[21:12:41] <artaxerxes> I thought you got your masters, not your PhD! ;)
[21:13:00] <wjp> getting a phd would make me "dr. wjp" :-)
[21:13:25] <artaxerxes> then what is drs. wjp?
[21:13:29] <wjp> 'doctorandus'
[21:13:39] <artaxerxes> sub-doctor?
[21:14:53] <artaxerxes> btw, the packages for zaurus are ready
[21:14:57] <wjp> hm, I'm not exactly sure about the origins, but it sounds like a latin gerundivum
[21:15:03] <artaxerxes> one set for rc2 and one for cvs
[21:15:24] <artaxerxes> wjp: suddently it makes more sense! /ironical
[21:15:36] <wjp> ..., which would translate to something like 'he who has to "doctorare"', but 'doctorare' isn't in my dictionary...
[21:16:25] <artaxerxes> let's say it means you still have to get it.
[21:16:43] <wjp> a rough translation would probably be 'he who has to become a doctor'
[21:16:58] <artaxerxes> anyways, do you want me to upload the packages to sf's ftp ?
[21:17:10] <wjp> of course :-)
[21:17:14] <artaxerxes> right now?
[21:17:17] <wjp> sure :-)
[21:17:47] * wjp starts a phd position this thursday
[21:17:50] <artaxerxes> I'll start with cvs
[21:17:56] <artaxerxes> great!
[21:18:07] <wjp> as a consequence, I no longer work for the helpdesk (and partially sys-admin) at the department
[21:18:26] <wjp> I got a "No, I won't fix your computer" cup from some friends as a graduation gift :-)
[21:18:48] <artaxerxes> thinkgeek?! ;-)
[21:18:53] <wjp> yes :-)
[21:18:53] <artaxerxes> uploaded
[21:20:29] <artaxerxes> oh, by the way, I think I'm gonna try out Gentooo
[21:20:35] <artaxerxes> s/Gentooo/Gentoo
[21:20:56] <wjp> hm
[21:21:14] <wjp> why is it a 1.1.11cvs package?
[21:21:21] <artaxerxes> it
[21:21:24] <artaxerxes> it's the cvs one
[21:21:43] <wjp> I got that part :-)
[21:21:50] <wjp> but why is it the cvs one and not 1.1.10rc2?
[21:22:00] <artaxerxes> that's coming next
[21:22:38] <artaxerxes> that's what I said earlier: 2 packages
[21:22:54] * wjp scrolls up; ah, missed that; sorry :-)
[21:23:15] <wjp> I'll delete the cvs one then if you don't mind
[21:23:31] <wjp> current cvs is identical to 1.1.10rc2 apart from the version number
[21:24:01] <artaxerxes> oh?
[21:24:57] <artaxerxes> ok then. done
[21:25:11] <artaxerxes> I though it was different
[21:28:38] <artaxerxes> did ya see Colourless's shots of Exult on PPC?
[21:31:08] <wjp> I did now :-)
[21:31:42] <artaxerxes> quite impressive, isn't it?
[21:32:21] <wjp> he had pentagram shots yesterday :-)
[21:33:43] <artaxerxes> on the PPC????
[21:33:59] <wjp> yes :-)
[21:34:39] <Fingolfin> I must say I don't like Colourless' PPC work at all, for two reasons: 1) the PPC people are evil, they stole our acronym! PPC rightfully means PowerPC, not PocketPC !!!, 2) I don't have a PocketPC on which I could play exult/pentagram/scummvm :-(
[21:35:12] <artaxerxes> nice!
[21:35:32] <artaxerxes> Fingolfin: then buy a Zaurus! :-)
[22:11:54] <artaxerxes> gotta go
[22:12:00] <artaxerxes> see ya later
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[23:25:45] <WishStone> huhu
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