#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 29 Sep 2004 (GMT)

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[00:06:39] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("42")
[00:07:38] --- sbx|afk is now known as sbx
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[04:42:06] <Baastuul> Good night.
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[05:14:01] <sbx> hi servus
[05:14:13] <sbx> hows it goin?
[06:05:41] <servus> Meow meow meow.
[06:05:50] <servus> Hi sbx, the current topside weather is: Busy
[06:06:39] <sbx> What about the underworld?
[06:06:55] <servus> Haven't had any time at all to work on Bonk! lately:-(
[06:07:34] <servus> Last I checked, it was looking neato, though, and I was starting to finish up the graphics side. Just one more problem to solve on that part, and I'm always too tired for the linear algebra when I get around to it :-)
[06:07:56] <sbx> I'm always too tired for all mathematics
[06:08:07] <sbx> but never for Bonk's Adventures
[06:08:13] <servus> Heh.
[06:08:40] <servus> Well it's bezier matrix stuff, so I have to be at tip-top shape because I'm not very good at that :-)
[06:09:51] <servus> Unless you want to do it :-)
[06:10:17] <sbx> I barely know how to say it
[06:11:06] <servus> Well you've got a 3D bezier function set that needs to be mapped to a 2D function, and the tangent, normal, and bitangent derived.
[06:11:17] <servus> I've done it before too so... pleh
[06:12:05] <sbx> i know what 3D is, and sort of what a bezier is, and what a function is... and I remember tangent and normal (refreshed memory from studying OpenGL even)
[06:12:11] <sbx> but that doesn't mean I understand that sentence
[06:12:23] * sbx must do more research.
[06:12:36] * sbx will get back to you in 5 to 10 weeks.
[06:12:51] <servus> It's just mean math for mean people.
[06:13:21] <sbx> are you making exact uw recreation?
[06:13:25] <sbx> or a new game
[06:13:26] <sbx> inspired by it
[06:14:08] <servus> A new engine, and I happen to be using an extremely UW1 test map.
[06:14:37] <sbx> well a new engine
[06:14:41] <sbx> but you will recreate the game?
[06:14:46] <sbx> i mean
[06:14:51] <sbx> like exult
[06:15:00] <sbx> allowing people to play uw
[06:15:21] <servus> It'd be cool, sure, but I'm so busy. If I did use it for UW, all the maps would be recreated from scratch. It's funner that way, and it looks pretty good :-)
[06:16:25] <sbx> Incidentally, someone with your name except for one t has a domain name just like yours except for one t.
[06:16:32] <sbx> http://www.sammathews.com
[06:16:35] <sbx> http://www.sammatthews.com
[06:16:51] <sbx> a mathematics teacher
[06:17:56] <servus> He can't spell his own last name right, tsk tsk.
[06:18:21] <sbx> of course I found that accidentally
[06:18:26] <sbx> because I can't spell it either
[06:20:53] <servus> I've seen it :P
[06:21:13] <sbx> oh
[06:21:17] <sbx> is that why you dont like your domain name?
[06:21:57] <sbx> you gonna rename it to ecstatica?
[06:22:18] <servus> Nah
[06:22:29] <servus> Ecstatica is different. I dunno about the domain name, I'm just funny.
[06:22:41] <sbx> Do you look like that guy?
[06:23:54] <servus> Nope
[06:24:02] <sbx> Why not?
[06:24:15] <servus> http://www.sammatthews.com/images/photos/Sam02.jpg because I look like this guy
[06:25:10] <sbx> hehe ok
[06:25:17] <sbx> You're late again, Mr. Anderson.
[06:25:24] <servus> I quit!
[06:26:17] <sbx> you cant quit
[06:26:19] <sbx> you have to escape
[06:26:36] <sbx> and nobody escapes the matrix
[06:26:43] <servus> Stupid matrices.
[06:26:52] * servus extrudes it into a tensor.
[06:26:54] <sbx> bezier matrices even
[06:27:17] <servus> All this math! I'm getting tensor and tensor!
[06:28:13] <sbx> yeah you dont look anything like that other guy
[06:28:16] <sbx> strange
[06:28:19] * sbx shrugs.
[06:29:32] <servus> Yeah, we have the same name almost, we should! :P
[06:29:45] <servus> 85% of Sam Matthewses are girls.
[06:29:55] <sbx> hmm
[06:29:59] <sbx> i never thought about that!
[06:30:09] <sbx> probably right
[06:30:18] <sbx> I knew someone named sam in elementary school
[06:31:39] <servus> I just compiled a very old version of Bonk! that I had on my server, and wow it's old, still works in Linux though :-0
[06:31:41] <servus> :-)
[06:32:31] <sbx> do they make you dress up for work?
[06:33:06] <servus> Nah
[06:33:20] <sbx> oops
[06:33:20] <servus> I wear T-Shirts now, sometimes wearing knickers. I really don't give a hoot about the job
[06:33:36] <sbx> you hate the commute?
[06:33:49] <servus> I hate the job.
[06:33:59] <servus> It pays very very low wages.
[06:34:01] <sbx> yeah jobs suck
[06:35:02] <sbx> What else is on your sever?
[06:35:04] <sbx> server
[06:36:34] <servus> Not much, you can browse starting at
[06:37:16] <sbx> any new 3dex*lt binaries?
[06:37:18] <sbx> or shots
[06:37:30] <servus> http://www.sammatthews.com/images/screenshots/Exult3D-15.jpg newest shot.
[06:37:36] <servus> No new binaries.
[06:37:40] <servus> I really haven't had any time to work on it :-(
[06:37:49] <servus> Finishing up work right now.
[06:38:22] <sbx> IE does thumbnails of your pics
[06:38:25] <sbx> I didnt know that
[06:40:12] <servus> Nah, I made a program to do that.
[06:40:31] <servus> I just made it look suspiciously like the Apache directory indexer.
[06:40:46] <sbx> oh
[06:40:50] <sbx> cool
[06:40:58] <sbx> sorry to pressure you
[06:41:07] <sbx> didnt mean to make you drive off a cliff
[06:41:19] <servus> Heh, that was unrelated:)
[06:41:51] <sbx> oh
[06:42:02] <sbx> np then
[06:42:12] <sbx> Madness01.jpg
[06:42:24] <servus> Marble Madness 2.
[06:42:25] <sbx> what is that?
[06:43:13] <servus> http://images.google.com/images?q=marble+madness&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search Marble Madness 1.
[06:44:42] <sbx> you're making the sequel/
[06:44:42] <sbx> ?
[06:45:18] <servus> Something I was working on for a while and is on the back burner. I really need a long vacation to work on all this stuff :)
[06:45:39] <sbx> "Thumbnail Viewer - Sam Matthews" <- didn't see that
[06:45:54] <sbx> you should get some job where you can save up a lot of money
[06:46:04] <sbx> so you can take a break
[06:46:22] <sbx> easier said than done
[06:46:51] <servus> Yeah, super crappy job right now, gonna get a new one, meh.
[06:47:43] <sbx> what else is on your server?
[06:48:04] <servus> Nothing cool anymore, my hard disk crashed many moons ago and I haven't restored any of the funny stuff.
[06:49:03] <sbx> oh that's too bad
[06:49:31] <servus> Hmm, restoring some stuff right now, dunno how interesting any of it is.
[06:50:18] <servus> Think I'm gonna tap out my Geocities bandwidth, I'm doing a wget --recursive on it to restore some stuff :)
[06:50:28] <servus> Yep, all tapped out. That was quick.
[06:50:56] <sbx> not surprising
[06:50:56] <sbx> you have a geocities site?
[06:51:19] <servus> I just used it to serve images, before I had broadband.
[06:52:37] <sbx> Doom3 demo http://www.3dgamers.com/dl/games/doom3/d3demo.exe.html
[06:57:04] <servus> I own it.
[06:57:11] <servus> OK, more stuff in /images/screenshots now.
[07:04:53] <sbx> I have to fix my network first
[07:08:13] <servus> What's wrong with your network?
[07:18:01] <servus> sbx probably hasn't seen these shots: http://www.sammatthews.com/images/screenshots/LoW/index.php
[07:24:47] <sbx> i cant connect to a game
[07:24:58] <sbx> LoW eh?
[07:25:32] <sbx> Isn't low by that Corben guy?
[07:25:35] <servus> Labyrinth of Worlds and Underworld Adventures, ja. There hasn't been any call for me to make additional models, so... that's really on the back burner :)
[07:25:41] <servus> Coren, ja. Haven't seen him for ages.
[07:25:57] <servus> WJP doesn't do a !seen for me either, anymore :(
[07:26:04] <servus> I mean, exultbot, but WJP is just as well.
[07:26:35] <sbx> Oh yaeh Corben is the guy from The Fifth Element.
[07:26:51] <sbx> !seen coren
[07:29:00] <sbx> Zoink
[07:30:53] <sbx> now that's a nice engine
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[07:32:05] <servus> Nah :-p
[07:32:06] <servus> Hi Dominus
[07:32:27] <Dominus> hi
[07:32:29] <Dominus> ?seen servus
[07:32:29] <exultbot> servus is right here!
[07:32:33] <Dominus> ?seen colourless
[07:32:33] <exultbot> colourless left IRC around Tue Sep 28 19:22:38 2004 (GMT) ("casts improved invisibility")
[07:32:36] <sbx> hi
[07:32:47] <sbx> thanks
[07:32:49] <Dominus> servus: it is ?seen and not !seen here
[07:33:37] <servus> Hmm, swore that didn't work earlier.
[07:33:42] <servus> Thanks, though.
[07:34:06] <sbx> ?seen coren
[07:34:06] <exultbot> I haven't seen coren lately
[07:34:14] <sbx> Me neither.
[07:34:32] <Dominus> can't help it, always when I see sth here I know how to correct I have to burst in :-)
[07:35:31] <Dominus> exultbot took quite a beeting the last couple of weeks so his database is probably not reaching back that much time
[07:36:04] <sbx> ?seen corben
[07:36:04] <exultbot> I haven't seen corben lately
[07:36:34] <Dominus> ?seen jeff
[07:36:34] <exultbot> I haven't seen jeff lately
[07:36:46] <Dominus> ?seen anyone lately
[07:36:46] <exultbot> I haven't seen anyone lately
[07:36:55] <Dominus> guessed so
[07:37:39] <servus> Man, I missed Jay Mohr at the improv!
[07:40:42] <sbx> You think he's funny?
[07:41:12] <Dominus> going again, bye
[07:41:21] <-- Dominus has left IRC ("Gitarren-Gott Selbstbewichser")
[07:41:32] <sbx> bye
[07:42:45] <servus> So you don't think of me too lowly, I'm even more bummed out that I missed Howard Shore at the Hollywood Bowl
[07:43:04] <sbx> Didn't he die?
[07:43:43] <servus> No!
[07:43:45] <servus> Well I don't know
[07:43:48] <servus> It doesn't matter.
[07:44:43] <sbx> If he did... yes you should be bummed.
[07:44:46] <sbx> That was your last chance.
[07:45:15] <sbx> Who did the Zoink?
[07:45:25] <servus> Me
[07:45:33] <sbx> wow that's great
[07:45:36] <sbx> I like it the best
[07:45:45] <servus> It's a precursor to the Marble Madness engine. I named it 30 minutes ago.
[07:45:53] <sbx> Because I like engines that can do outdoor terrain
[07:45:55] <servus> It was kinda fun to bounce around the map
[07:45:57] <sbx> oh
[07:46:06] <sbx> I'd use it for my game
[07:46:11] <servus> http://www.sammatthews.com/images/screenshots/Madness03.jpg you don't like this as much? :P
[07:47:05] <sbx> Oh I like that
[07:47:09] <sbx> Especially with a compass
[07:47:14] <sbx> But I like grassy terrain better :p
[07:47:39] <sbx> http://www.sammatthews.com/images/screenshots/Zoink07.jpg
[07:47:46] <sbx> Are the background mountains a skybox type thing?
[07:47:48] <sbx> Or part of the terrain
[07:48:05] <servus> Skybox
[07:48:28] <sbx> If you made them part of the terrain I would like it even more
[07:48:31] <sbx> brb I have to reboot
[07:48:32] <servus> THose are alpha-alpha-alpha pics. I got Zoink to show several hundred square miles at a time without slowing down
[07:48:38] <sbx> haha
[07:48:40] <sbx> impressive
[07:48:43] <-- sbx has left IRC ("...")
[07:49:08] <servus> (So why doesn't he like Madness03.jpg?"
[07:49:09] <servus> )
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[07:53:03] <sbx> Things are working now it seems.
[07:55:41] <servus> http://madness.sourceforge.net/Screens.php I have a lot of things I never get around to working on :-)
[07:59:02] <servus> news.google.com implies that Howard Shore is well and alive
[07:59:14] <servus> Whenever he does his Lord Of The Rings concert though, it's one-night-only!
[08:06:15] <servus> Did your last binary have gumps/text/conversation, sbx?
[08:07:46] <servus>
[08:15:58] <wjp> ?seen coren_
[08:15:58] <exultbot> coren_ left IRC around Mon Oct 20 17:14:13 2003 (GMT) ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.4")
[08:16:05] <wjp> not coren :-)
[08:17:15] <sbx> oh
[08:17:16] <sbx> thanks
[08:17:35] <sbx> no I didnt see the gumps yet, thanks servus
[08:17:46] <sbx> from the screenshots they werent drawn accurate
[08:20:57] <servus> Still a long time
[08:21:09] <servus> Oh, they're accurate. It's just some of the text is drawn in 3D>
[08:21:19] <servus> It's a little messy determining what is 2D and what is 3D. I'm working on it.
[08:21:30] <sbx> i mean in the screenshots
[08:21:34] <sbx> the icons were in the wrong place
[08:21:37] <servus> Icons?
[08:21:46] <sbx> on the paperdoll gumps
[08:21:48] * servus hmms
[08:21:55] <sbx> save/load, battle, protect
[08:22:00] <sbx> and status
[08:22:04] <sbx> You know, the icons.
[08:22:31] <servus> Are they? I can't really remember. Let's pretend they are accurate for now
[08:22:53] <sbx> Lord_N suggest you draw them to a second transparent layer first and then put that on the screen.
[08:22:59] <sbx> np
[08:23:47] <servus> Nah, the masking will all be solved in one fell swoop.
[08:24:09] <servus> Should also make boats and fences and carriages look better at the same time, incidentally.
[08:24:25] <servus> Argh, modified-header-file cascade! Everything wants to recompile!
[08:25:21] <sbx> That calls for emergency stop
[08:26:11] <servus> Hmm?
[08:26:23] <sbx> stop the compile
[08:26:30] <sbx> panic
[08:26:31] <servus> Why?
[08:26:34] <sbx> rewrite the headers
[08:26:40] <sbx> resume
[08:26:55] <sbx> to avoid the cascade
[08:27:08] <sbx> Unless you find it fun.
[08:29:06] <servus> Err? The header has been modified. Unless you make it exactly how it used to be (which is silly), everything needs to be recompiled
[08:29:13] <servus> Wee, segfault!
[08:29:43] * servus remembers to check his pointers.
[08:30:04] <sbx> ...
[08:30:07] <sbx> anyway
[08:30:10] <sbx> could you zoom in closer?
[08:30:30] <servus> In the binary?
[08:30:42] <sbx> yeah
[08:30:47] <sbx> zoomed out is good for screenshots
[08:30:58] <sbx> But its easier to see to play when it is closeer.
[08:31:24] <sbx> Filtering is the shiz-nite.
[08:31:45] <servus> Let's see...
[08:31:50] <sbx> To put it politely.
[08:32:05] <servus> Is shiz-nite good or bad? :-0
[08:32:07] <servus> :-)
[08:32:39] <sbx> good
[08:32:51] <sbx> pure goodness
[08:33:48] <servus> Haha, clouds are silly.
[08:34:35] <sbx> I havnt seen one yet
[08:35:13] <servus>
[08:36:09] <servus> Hmm, where are gumps *drawn*?
[08:36:31] <servus> Gumps, in-game text barks, mouse cursor, icons, portraits?
[08:36:46] <servus> Right now I'm hacking some stuff out of the map-rendering code and that's not right.
[09:58:42] <sbx> Dorn!
[10:02:36] <servus> Dorn!
[10:02:39] <servus> Dorstag!
[10:02:43] <servus> AVATAR KICKS!
[10:28:56] <servus> Snap! Gumps are all working.
[10:31:00] <sbx> screenshot???
[10:31:41] <servus> Well it's not that impressive :P
[10:31:43] <servus> Just a second
[10:31:48] <servus> You know me. I just blabber.
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[10:34:26] <servus> knew it was something simple.
[10:36:00] <sbx> :)
[10:36:05] <sbx> The kneeling guy looks... strange?
[10:36:21] <servus> Just a strange angle.
[10:36:39] <servus> Too bad I broke animations on this build. I simply cannot see where shapes are animated!@
[10:36:40] <Colourless> wow the numbers are in te right place now ;-)
[10:36:44] <servus> If Colourless wants to tell me... :)
[10:36:54] <Colourless> what sort of shape animations?
[10:37:03] <servus> How is an object's frame advanced to the next one in sequence?
[10:37:10] <sbx> Surf did not animate in previous builds.
[10:37:13] <servus> I see it's in obj->paint(), but that is a VERY messy method because it's virtual.
[10:37:21] <servus> Yes it did, once upon a time.
[10:37:46] <servus> I'm keeping track of flags. They don't animate in my current build because I had to disable obj->paint() for the GL build because I do things my own way in GL
[10:37:49] <Colourless> animation 'should' have been automatic
[10:38:00] <servus> Yes but I don't call the paint() method for objects...
[10:38:32] <servus> Guess it's a bunch of messy polymorphism as I suspected?
[10:39:43] <Colourless> quite possibly yes
[10:39:55] <Colourless> all animated shape stuff shoudl be in animate.cc
[10:41:28] <servus> Animated_oject::paint calls a want->animation(void), but this doesn't do what I had hoped.
[10:41:52] <servus> Hmm, lemme see..
[10:42:39] <Colourless> that is needed
[10:42:42] <Colourless> void want_animation() // Want animation on.
[10:42:43] <Colourless> {
[10:42:43] <Colourless> if (!animating)
[10:42:43] <Colourless> start_animation();
[10:42:43] <Colourless> }
[10:42:56] <Colourless> if want_animation() is not called, it will never animate
[10:44:27] <servus> I can't call that on Game_object though, of course. What would I call it on?
[10:44:42] <servus> Where is the class Animator actually instantiated?
[10:47:27] <servus> I see the if( info.is_animated() ) animator = Animator::create(this); do I need to do that for every frame? Seems like a... bad idea:)
[10:50:11] <Colourless> i would create a new virtual function start_animation() in shapeid that does nothing and implement it in the animated shape classes
[10:50:27] <servus> OK, class Terrain_game_object : public Game_object and class Animated_object : public Terrain_game_object ... but I can't call a method on an inherited class with only a parent reference. Can I be guaranteed that I am being passed terrain game objects? I guess I can! It's casting time.
[10:51:26] <Colourless> use virtuals
[10:53:12] <servus> righto.
[10:54:15] <servus> I should doxygen this or something, so I can see all these inheritances... (Is that the right program?:)
[10:54:30] <Colourless> should work on exult
[10:54:56] <Colourless> we use it on pentagram
[10:55:18] <Colourless> though pentagram is all documented with doxygen comments
[10:57:58] <Colourless> pentagram: http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/pentagram/doxygen/
[10:58:47] <Colourless> not exactly current
[11:07:14] <servus> I think a visio-type flowchart would be great. Hmm, I'll try it later, I need sleep
[11:07:14] <servus> After this compile... :)
[11:07:51] <servus> No animation :-(
[11:24:42] <wjp> Colourless: hm, right, I've been neglecting that; I just updated that pentagram doxygen stuff
[11:41:37] <Colourless> should be linked on our site (took me a while to find it)
[11:44:12] <wjp> development section?
[11:44:52] <Colourless> yeah would be the best place
[11:48:55] <sbx> I don't see the link
[12:05:38] <wjp> I just added the link to the dev section now
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[12:48:09] <Fl00der> hi fellows
[12:49:15] <sbx> hi
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[14:33:59] <Fl00der> wjp is not here :O
[14:44:24] <sbx> ?
[14:44:38] <sbx> ?seen wjp
[14:44:38] <exultbot> wjp is right here!
[14:54:58] <Fl00der> :)
[14:55:09] <Fl00der> :O
[14:55:20] <Fl00der> but wjp is not OP
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[15:00:25] <dukey> Matt_O you about ?
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[15:07:07] <wjp> Fl00der: yes?
[15:08:14] <Fl00der> nothing :)
[15:08:27] <Fl00der> just wondering why you were not OP :P
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[16:10:52] <sbx> bye
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[23:15:07] <servus> Cool, a full graphical class inheritance diagram of Exult, and a call diagram too :-)
[23:15:10] <servus> Neato burrito!
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