#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Aug 2001 (GMT)

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[08:49:39] <Nadir> 'ning
[08:50:42] <Kefka> morning
[09:00:22] <Kefka> Exult is still not as optimized as it could be.
[09:00:22] <Kefka> Some features haven't been implemented yet.
[09:00:22] <Kefka> Exult has bugs.
[09:00:22] <Kefka> I know that sounds like a full shipping product from Microsoft, but with Exult it is different :)
[09:00:27] <Kefka> LOL
[09:00:39] <Nadir> You liked that ? I enjoyed writing it :)
[09:00:51] <Kefka> very witty
[09:06:11] <Nadir> I really have to get out of my open-source advocacy thing
[09:06:45] <Kefka> nah
[09:07:49] <Kefka> i am like that too. I just recently saw the light and moved to linux.. the reason i am using windows now is that I jumped right into the thick of Linux by using Debian with no prior unix/linux experience
[09:08:27] <Kefka> and i am having problems configuring and running Debian properly, plus I am waiting to get a Linux compatible NIC in the mail.. should be here tomorrow
[09:09:29] <Kefka> technologically-wise, i can't find any faults in Linux compared to Win9x or even Win2k
[09:13:06] <Kefka> hmm, is that chick in rush hour 2 the same one that was in crouching tiger, hidden dragon?
[09:21:59] <Nadir> haven't seen either
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[09:41:36] <matt0> Kefka: what nic do you have now?
[09:41:57] <Nadir> b
[09:42:09] <Kefka> wb
[09:42:16] <Kefka> well, i have some old SMC card
[09:42:41] <Kefka> and i also have a Dlink DFE 530TX+ card i think.. i looked up a HOWTO on compatible hardware
[09:43:25] <Kefka> and it said the card was supported under a certain driver, but when i tried to load that module into the core, it wouldn't work
[09:43:41] <Kefka> i think it was the rhinebus or something
[09:44:31] <Kefka> anyways, instead of screwing around with it, i decided to spend the extra money and buy a NIC that has vendor developed GPL'd drivers.. and that vendor and card is the 3Com 905C TX-M
[09:44:46] <Nadir> good one
[09:45:56] <Kefka> well, i haven't bought anything on my credit card for the past 3 months, so i decided to splurge and spend $40
[09:47:39] <matt0> haha
[09:47:46] <Nadir> My notebook has an Intel Pro/100 MiniPCI
[09:48:03] <matt0> make sure you use kernal 2.4 w/ that 3com
[09:48:08] <matt0> it won't work in the driver in 2.2
[09:48:38] <matt0> at least, if it's the one I'm thinking of
[09:48:43] <matt0> (incredibly small nic)
[09:48:43] <Kefka> hmm.. matt0, are you familiar with Debian at all?
[09:48:52] <matt0> Kefka: of course, I advocate Debian :)
[09:48:56] <Kefka> no, this isn't one of those small ones
[09:49:00] <matt0> oh ok
[09:49:13] <Kefka> ok.. so here is my situation:
[09:49:23] <Kefka> i have potato 2.2r3 on CD
[09:49:40] <Kefka> which uses kernel 2.2.19pre3 i think
[09:50:01] <matt0> once you get it installed, the CD is a non-factor
[09:50:10] <matt0> you should apt-get all your stuff from the internet
[09:50:24] <Kefka> the problem is that i cannot get my NIC working to apt-get it
[09:50:47] <Kefka> when i install debian, there isn't a driver for my old NICs, or the new 3com one that is coming in the mail
[09:50:57] <matt0> oh yeah
[09:51:03] <Kefka> however, when i select Load Device Modules
[09:51:06] <matt0> eh? yes there is
[09:51:25] <matt0> go on
[09:51:27] <Kefka> it asks me for any additional drivers to be loaded via floppy drive
[09:51:55] <matt0> yeah you just say 'no' to that question
[09:51:56] <Kefka> i always answer no since i am new and figure that all of the device modules would be in there already
[09:52:00] <Kefka> BUT
[09:52:12] <matt0> yes?
[09:52:31] <Kefka> when my brand new 3com comes in the mail, should i download the driver from 3com, put it on a floppy, then load it from there during the instaltion of debian?
[09:52:39] <matt0> no
[09:52:50] <matt0> the module you need is already there
[09:52:50] <Kefka> ok, what should i do then?
[09:52:52] <matt0> it's called 3c59x
[09:52:56] <Kefka> no
[09:53:07] <Kefka> i have a 3c905x
[09:53:12] <Kefka> not 59
[09:53:18] <matt0> I realize what you have
[09:53:24] <matt0> and I stand by what I just said :)
[09:53:52] <matt0> matt@holladay:~$ /sbin/lsmod
[09:53:52] <matt0> Module Size Used by
[09:53:52] <matt0> nls_cp437 3872 2 (autoclean)
[09:53:52] <matt0> smbfs 25848 2 (autoclean)
[09:53:52] <matt0> 3c59x 21156 2
[09:53:57] <matt0> notice 3c59x is loaded?
[09:54:00] <Kefka> hmm, ok, so use the 59x, which will work, then upgrade to the 3com drivers manually?
[09:54:17] <matt0> 3c59x.c 18Feb01 Donald Becker and others http://www.scyld.com/network/vortex.htm
[09:54:17] <matt0> l
[09:54:17] <matt0> eth0: 3Com 3c905 Boomerang 100baseTx at 0xe400, 00:60:97:c5:48:01, IRQ 5
[09:54:17] <matt0> 8K word-wide RAM 3:5 Rx:Tx split, autoselect/MII interface.
[09:54:17] <matt0> MII transceiver found at address 24, status 786f.
[09:54:18] <Kefka> the offical ones i mean
[09:54:18] <matt0> Enabling bus-master transmits and whole-frame receives.
[09:54:20] <matt0> eth1: 3Com 3c905B Cyclone 100baseTx at 0xe800, 00:10:4b:9c:e2:77, IRQ 10
[09:54:22] <matt0> 8K byte-wide RAM 5:3 Rx:Tx split, autoselect/Autonegotiate interface.
[09:54:24] <matt0> MII transceiver found at address 24, status 786d.
[09:54:26] <matt0> Enabling bus-master transmits and whole-frame receives.
[09:54:32] <Kefka> ah
[09:54:45] <matt0> I am not aware of any "official" 3com driver that is more official than that one (Donald Becker's)
[09:54:52] <matt0> that _is_ the 3com driver hehe
[09:55:03] <Kefka> hmm.. i went to his site
[09:55:04] <matt0> notice I have a 3c905 and a 3c905B ..
[09:55:11] <matt0> in that box anyway
[09:55:26] <Kefka> and there was a link about 3com developing drivers in house
[09:55:32] <Kefka> but i may have read it wrong
[09:55:40] <matt0> hmmm it's possible I suppose
[09:55:58] <matt0> and I certainly wouldn't say updating to any in house driver 3com makes is a bad thing
[09:56:05] <matt0> I am just saying that the 3c59x works great :)
[09:56:22] <matt0> except w/ that super small 3com nic, in which case the newer version of 3c59x included with the 2.4 kernels works great
[09:56:25] <Kefka> i don't understand why all of these NIC companies don't develop their own drivers.. at least for their high end server cards
[09:56:50] <matt0> they develop where they have the most users
[09:56:51] <Kefka> not that 905x is a high end server card
[09:57:55] <Kefka> yeah i guess.. well, i'll just have to convert a few more people to an Open Source OS
[09:58:58] <Kefka> you have got me scared with that "super small 3com nic"
[09:59:05] <Kefka> i gotta go check their page now :)
[09:59:09] <matt0> what's scary about that?
[09:59:13] <Kefka> and hope for the best
[09:59:28] <Kefka> cause i don't wanna have to deal with loading a kernel
[09:59:35] <Kefka> until i am hooked up to the net with it
[09:59:39] <matt0> ah ...
[10:00:06] <matt0> well I didn't want to scare you, I just wanted to save you ssome troubleshooting when you installed it in 2.2.19 and it didn't work :)
[10:00:19] <matt0> what happens is it loads the module correctly and looks like it ought to work
[10:00:20] <matt0> but you can't ping anyone
[10:00:32] <matt0> but all of those problems went away when I went to 2.4
[10:00:42] <Kefka> ah
[10:00:46] <matt0> and BTW, it might not be too difficult to get your current nic working either
[10:00:51] <matt0> did you say it used that rhine driver?
[10:01:06] <Kefka> yeah
[10:01:13] <Kefka> thats what it says on the HOWTO page
[10:01:37] <Kefka> but when i attempt to load it, the installation fails
[10:01:50] <matt0> what's the exact name of it anyway?
[10:01:56] <matt0> I know I've had a friend load it before
[10:02:07] <Kefka> hmm
[10:02:13] <Kefka> hold on
[10:02:21] <Kefka> the card you mean right?
[10:02:31] <matt0> no the kernel module
[10:02:42] <matt0> oh here it is.. via-rhine.o
[10:03:27] <Kefka> yeah i thought it has via in the name
[10:03:30] <Kefka> had
[10:03:49] <matt0> so you load it and it gives you an error, eh?
[10:03:57] <Kefka> yes
[10:04:02] <matt0> did you try tulip? hehe
[10:04:06] <Kefka> yep
[10:04:07] <matt0> tulip works with a ton of nic's
[10:04:09] <Kefka> and it loaded
[10:04:21] <matt0> but no dice?
[10:04:25] <Kefka> unfortunately, when i tried to install woody instead of potato
[10:04:38] <Kefka> via the network
[10:04:50] <Kefka> it just sat there and i had to hit esc
[10:04:58] <matt0> could you ping anything?
[10:05:06] <Kefka> nope
[10:05:19] <matt0> was your routing configured correctly and stuff?
[10:05:22] <Kefka> my network info was all correct too
[10:05:25] <matt0> (do you use dhcp?)
[10:05:29] <Kefka> no
[10:05:44] <matt0> ok
[10:05:45] <Kefka> i put in my ip, subnet, gateway, dns servers
[10:05:48] <Kefka> and domain
[10:05:53] <matt0> ok
[10:06:06] <matt0> no dhcp? they give you a static ip with @home? hehe
[10:06:08] <matt0> that's unheard of!
[10:06:14] <Kefka> but i did try dhcp as well
[10:06:17] <Kefka> didn't work
[10:06:20] <Kefka> yep
[10:06:37] <Kefka> everyone i know here in southeast michigan have static ips
[10:07:23] <Kefka> take a look at this
[10:07:30] <Kefka> and tell me if its the small one
[10:07:31] <Kefka> http://www.3com.com/products/en_US/detail.jsp?tab=features&pathtype=purchase&sku=3C905C-TX-M
[10:11:02] <matt0> hmmm
[10:12:17] <matt0> hmmmmm
[10:12:27] <matt0> I don't _think_ it's the small one ..
[10:12:41] <matt0> my small one is labeled 3C905CTX .. but that one has the M after it
[10:13:05] <Kefka> hmm.. well, yours is a ctx-nm
[10:13:05] <matt0> then again it could be the small one :)
[10:13:20] <Kefka> the difference is one has wake on lan, one doesn't
[10:14:03] <Kefka> i doubt the wake-on-lan would make a functionality difference, so unfortunately, i think i have the small one
[10:14:34] <matt0> I think mine does have wake on lan
[10:14:38] <matt0> sorry hehe
[10:14:51] <Kefka> hmm
[10:14:55] <matt0> hold on a second, I'll remove it from the case.. it happens to be open
[10:14:55] <Kefka> well
[10:15:00] <Kefka> ok
[10:15:30] <matt0> ok
[10:16:10] <matt0> ok, i's actually the 3c905cx-txm
[10:16:16] <matt0> I'm not sure if that's the same or not
[10:16:20] <Kefka> doh!
[10:16:21] <matt0> (got the extra x in there)
[10:16:38] <matt0> it looks different than the picture
[10:16:56] <Kefka> hmm..
[10:18:16] <Kefka> i'll go check the tracking on my package
[10:18:24] <Kefka> maybe it will come today
[10:19:54] <Kefka> hmm.. in trasit to toledo, OH
[10:20:12] <Kefka> that was at midnight EST
[10:20:49] <Kefka> oops.. but that was from La-grande vista, CA
[10:20:49] <Kefka> lol
[10:20:57] <matt0> what I did was I threw in some Linksys nic I had lying around (tulip driver) and apt-got the new kernel.. then once I had it I put the 3com in...
[10:21:03] <matt0> I suppose you don't have that luxury hehe
[10:21:37] <matt0> well you can always get the latest driver and build it from source with 2.2.19
[10:22:28] <Kefka> hmm.. is a valid test of network connectivity trying to install debian from the net?
[10:22:44] <matt0> as I recall, the 3c59x.c source code actually has the exact command line you type in to compile it inside its comments
[10:22:51] <matt0> so you don't really have to know anything to compile it hehe
[10:22:56] <matt0> Kefka: no
[10:23:04] <matt0> Kefka: a valid test it trying to ping another computer on your LAN
[10:23:26] <Kefka> thats the problem
[10:23:30] <matt0> once you move outside your LAN, you are then testing not only your own NIc, but also your router's functionality and your ISP's
[10:24:00] <Kefka> hmm
[10:24:50] <Kefka> i need to buy a router
[10:25:21] <matt0> ?
[10:25:34] <matt0> isn't that what your cable modem is?
[10:25:37] <Kefka> so i can connect multiple computers to the net
[10:25:40] <Kefka> ewll
[10:25:42] <Kefka> i mean
[10:25:44] <Kefka> NAT
[10:25:45] <matt0> linux can do that for you
[10:25:49] <matt0> linux does NAT perfectly
[10:25:57] <Kefka> yeah, but i want to do it in hardware
[10:26:01] <matt0> bah
[10:26:04] <matt0> linux rules! hehe
[10:26:13] <Kefka> if i reboot
[10:26:15] * matt0 goes off and sulks
[10:26:20] <Kefka> my network goes down
[10:26:26] <matt0> ah I see
[10:26:33] <matt0> yeah I see your point
[10:27:01] <Kefka> and i have been at LAN parties where that happened
[10:27:12] <Kefka> when people were in the middle of playing on the net
[10:27:16] <matt0> I wonder whatever happened to Coder Infidel!
[10:27:23] <Kefka> and it wasn't pretty
[10:27:24] <matt0> Kefka: hehehe.. doh!
[10:28:32] <Kefka> i wanna know where dancer is
[10:29:08] <matt0> I think he still patrols the mailing list
[10:29:09] <matt0> but he doesn't come to IRC anymore
[10:29:09] <matt0> he used to ...
[10:30:22] <Kefka> hmm
[10:31:06] <Kefka> well, now that i have ya here (not that you won't be here in the future), what do you suggest for a pdf reader when running Linux?
[10:32:59] <Nadir> I use acroread :(
[10:33:47] <Nadir> there are 3 choices: xpdf, ghostscript and acroread
[10:34:27] <Kefka> which would you suggest?
[10:34:35] <Kefka> i notice you put a :( after acroread
[10:34:59] <matt0> Kefka: I use gv (apt-get install gv)
[10:35:20] <Nadir> they all have "issues". Acroread is the best. But it's not open
[10:35:41] <Nadir> matt0: gv, ggv, and all the others that I can think of are merely frontends to ghostscript
[10:35:41] <matt0> Kefka: acroread is adobe's reader... it looks like their first attempt at writing a linux program in my opinion.. hehe
[10:35:46] <matt0> Nadir: right
[10:36:07] <Nadir> and the almight ghostscript has problems with some PDFs.
[10:36:17] <matt0> (ie, they put acroread inside a few directories in /usr/local where you have to manually cd to it to run it)
[10:36:32] <matt0> although I guess you can install it anywhere
[10:37:03] <Nadir> Who cares where it is. Just add a link to /usr/local/acrobat/bin/acroread in /usr/local/bin
[10:37:05] <Kefka> does acroread cost money? or is it just non-open source
[10:37:16] <Nadir> it's free. Not Free.
[10:37:20] <Kefka> ah
[10:37:39] <Nadir> It also comes with a Netscape/Mozilla plugin
[10:37:56] <Nadir> xpdf is good too
[10:38:18] <Kefka> well, i still dislike their handling of the Skylarov situation so i don't think i will use acroread
[10:38:42] <matt0> Nadir: really? I'll have to try that
[10:39:33] <Nadir> And there are different versions of ghostscript: AFPL - 7.0, GPL 6.51
[10:39:45] <Nadir> A bit like MySQL
[10:39:46] <matt0> what a mess!
[10:40:42] <Kefka> is postgre free and Free?
[10:40:57] <matt0> Nadir seems to like postgresql :)
[10:41:12] <Nadir> postgresql is GPL
[10:41:24] <Kefka> ok
[10:51:45] <Kefka> hahahah
[10:51:54] <Kefka> omg, this psychic on the howard stern show
[10:52:00] <Kefka> is so insane
[10:53:39] <Nadir> where are you kefka ?
[10:54:05] <Kefka> heh, sorry
[10:54:09] <Kefka> i am from the Us
[10:54:20] <Nadir> what time is it there ?
[10:54:25] <Kefka> 6:45am
[10:54:34] <Nadir> and what are you doing up at that time ? :)
[10:54:58] <Kefka> my schedule is awake from midnight to 4pm
[10:55:05] <Kefka> sleep from 4pm to midnight
[10:56:11] <Nadir> odd. And you matt0 ?
[10:56:24] <Kefka> sometimes i go fishing, and the morning in one of the best times for fishing
[11:12:18] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[11:12:44] <Dominus> hi guys
[11:12:57] <Kefka> hey
[11:13:04] <Dominus> enough bug submitting for today, I guess - encountered a real plot stopper to which there is no workaround via cheating
[11:13:20] <Dominus> I think 14 open bugs submitted by me are enough anyway
[11:13:24] * Kefka goes to the bugtracker page
[11:13:53] <Kefka> whoa
[11:14:31] <Kefka> my question is:
[11:14:34] <Dominus> the red ones are plot stoppers
[11:14:38] <Dominus> ?
[11:14:45] <Kefka> when ARE slimes gonna be handled correctly? :)
[11:14:52] <Dominus> :-)
[11:15:16] <Dominus> the last comment was from Fingolfin !
[11:15:50] <Kefka> heh
[11:17:39] <Dominus> Jeff shouldnīt have fixed the bug with the demon sword - that allowed me going on to the next couple of bugs :-)
[11:18:12] <Nadir> hi dominus
[11:18:20] <Dominus> hi
[11:19:11] <Dominus> Nadir: did you see my post where to download the "lates" sfx pack by me? (couple of days old)
[11:20:01] <Nadir> yes.
[11:20:40] * Dominus thought it would interst you :-)
[11:21:35] <Nadir> thanks. when I have time I'll generate a drsfsi.flx :)
[11:22:44] <Nadir> s/drsfsi.flx/drsfxsi.flx/
[11:22:53] <Kefka> pwd = print working directory?
[11:22:57] <Nadir> yep
[11:22:59] <Kefka> ok
[11:23:02] <Dominus> My savegames keep getting bigger and bigger! from around 380 KB to 620 now
[11:23:24] <Nadir> I think I'll restart SI from the beginning. Where are you now ?
[11:24:01] <Dominus> Test of Purity in Furnace, after getting back from Mt of Freedom
[11:24:32] * Dominus follows an old walkthrough
[11:24:54] * Dominus wants to save time
[11:26:05] * Dominus encountered many bugs but was able to cheat his way through but now he is stopped by WORMS!!!
[11:26:47] --> fingolfin has joined #exult
[11:26:54] <fingolfin> hiya
[11:27:32] <Kefka> hey
[11:27:44] <Dominus> hi, we were just mentioning you
[11:27:47] <Dominus> :-)
[11:27:59] <fingolfin> really
[11:28:05] <Kefka> heh
[11:28:11] <Nadir> Ah, I'm trying to get to the snowy parts, but there was a non -working teleport in the dungeons there
[11:28:46] * Dominus points Fingolfin to comment about SLIMES not Worms
[11:29:02] <fingolfin> ?
[11:29:05] <Dominus> Nadir: Iīm not at that point yet
[11:29:36] <fingolfin> Dominus: are you talking about the slime animation bug?
[11:29:37] <Dominus> fingolfin: that bug about Slimes not being correct
[11:30:08] <fingolfin> what ībout it?
[11:30:11] <Dominus> Quote:I have no clue how to fix this right now, and not the time to
[11:30:11] <Dominus> learn how, so if someone wants to do it, go ahead, otherwise
[11:30:17] <Dominus> I'll return to it once I am able to again
[11:30:39] <Nadir> fingolfin is busy maintaining the website :)
[11:30:42] <fingolfin> nah
[11:30:56] <fingolfin> I am busy working, and exult has only a low priority for me ATM, sorry
[11:31:19] <fingolfin> enough to work on web site & compiling on MacOS / OS X, and playing sometimes a little bit, but not time to dive into code and mess with it
[11:31:25] <Dominus> it was just meant as a comment when Kefka made a joke about this bug still being there
[11:31:40] <fingolfin> I code enough on my "real" project; all these threading stuff is making me sick, sigh
[11:31:43] <Dominus> I donīt really care about slimy animations
[11:31:47] <fingolfin> ;)
[11:32:31] <Nadir> what's the priority on that bug ?
[11:32:43] <Dominus> 4
[11:33:13] <Dominus> 9 months old now
[11:33:39] <Dominus> in the time this one takes to fix you could have a baby
[11:33:52] <Dominus> :-)
[11:34:34] <fingolfin> no
[11:34:38] <fingolfin> I am male, no chance
[11:35:14] <Dominus> you = general, not YOU fingolfin :-)
[11:35:36] <fingolfin> oh, you mean "man" not "du" ? ;)
[11:35:40] <Nadir> how do we know you are male fingolfin ? nobody has ever seen you !
[11:35:57] <fingolfin> Dominus: so you meant "...one could have a baby" ?
[11:36:04] <fingolfin> Nadir: jameson has
[11:36:05] <fingolfin> ;)
[11:36:18] <fingolfin> Nadir: and how do we know your are not a martian?
[11:36:19] <Nadir> Nobody's seen jameson either
[11:36:23] <fingolfin> Nadir: I did! ;)
[11:36:45] <Dominus> ah, so what is it about you two seeing each other?
[11:36:49] <Nadir> :)
[11:37:06] <fingolfin> ok, the first of us to become a millionair will help the financiation of a big exult team meeting, ok= ;)
[11:37:08] <Nadir> fingolfin and jameson ! Oh the horror ! My eyes !
[11:37:12] * fingolfin kick doms
[11:37:18] * fingolfin kicks Nadir
[11:37:32] <fingolfin> ah you are just jealous of us! ;)
[11:37:40] <Dominus> LOL
[11:37:58] <fingolfin> but since yesterday, gays and lesbians can marry in germany, too, so you have absolutly no way of interferring our gender ;)
[11:38:05] <Kefka> btw, just incase anyone was wondering what I look like
[11:38:08] <Kefka> http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/7744/leg8.jpg
[11:38:29] <Dominus> werenīt you in that movie...?
[11:38:33] <fingolfin> Kefka: you know, I have been wondering all the time since you first appeared here ;)
[11:38:44] <Kefka> heheh
[11:38:50] <Dominus> fingolfin: hope you are not living in Bavaria
[11:39:06] <fingolfin> Dominus: <nasal>na you dirty dirty boy</nasal>
[11:40:39] * Dominus slaps Fingolfin on his Popo
[11:41:15] <Nadir> http://www.pattytri.com/foto/Tristan.jpg
[11:41:45] <Nadir> that's me in Warsaw
[11:42:43] <Dominus> http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a9848357/htms/photos/haar.jpg thatīs me 9/10 years ago
[11:43:06] <Kefka> ahahahah
[11:44:04] <Nadir> great hair
[11:44:45] <Kefka> if you changed the hair, you'd look like that guy in the Offspring "Pretty Fly For A White Guy" video
[11:45:00] <Nadir> maybe it was fingolfin
[11:45:11] <Nadir> s/fingolfin/dominus/
[11:45:44] <Dominus> how about that one : http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a9848357/htms/photos/rasta.jpg
[11:46:01] <Dominus> thatīs where my nick Dominus comes from
[11:46:43] <Dominus> and if you still wonder what I look like nowadays: http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a9848357/htms/photos/moisil.jpg
[11:47:33] <Kefka> gives new meaning to the word evolution :)
[11:47:36] <Nadir> we need a pic of each for SourceForge Island
[11:48:08] <Dominus> eventually you are right
[11:48:58] <Dominus> fingolfin: where is a pic of you
[11:48:59] <Dominus> ?
[11:49:05] <Kefka> what is the linux equivilent of dir /p? using BASH
[11:50:39] <Nadir> ls | less
[11:51:40] <Nadir> U*ix philosophy: keep it simple. ls is the directory lister, less (or more) is the pager. To get a paged list pipe one through the other
[11:51:43] <Kefka> hmm, is there a way to list files by pages?
[11:52:02] <Kefka> | less gives me file by file
[11:52:19] <Dominus> bbl
[11:52:20] <Nadir> what ?
[11:52:25] <-- Dominus has left IRC (Read error to Dominus[212186137085.15.univie.teleweb.at]: EOF from client)
[11:52:49] <Kefka> ok, basically, i want ls to give me a listing where the first page comes up in a single column
[11:52:53] <Kefka> say 26 lines
[11:52:56] <Kefka> then i hit enter
[11:53:02] <Kefka> it then lists the next 26 files
[11:53:09] <Kefka> hit enter, next 26 lines, etc
[11:53:17] <fingolfin> oh you want this
[11:53:19] <fingolfin> ls -l | less
[11:53:21] <fingolfin> does like
[11:53:36] <Nadir> use /bin/ls -1 | less
[11:53:42] <Kefka> nope
[11:53:47] <fingolfin> pics of me... hmm... I am afraid no really current ones on my computer, but maybe an old one, wait
[11:53:55] <Nadir> Use SPACEBAR KEFKA !
[11:54:00] <fingolfin> lol
[11:54:01] <Nadir> not enter
[11:54:04] <Kefka> ah
[11:54:05] <Kefka> ok
[11:54:09] <Kefka> that does it
[11:54:18] <Nadir> enter is line by line. spacebar is page. same with web browsers
[11:54:27] <Nadir> (apart from the enter bit)
[11:54:30] <Kefka> ok, i didn't know
[11:55:21] <Kefka> whoa, that spacebar thing works in IE as well
[11:55:44] <fingolfin> a picture of me and my bud Krest: http://fingolfin.dnsalias.net/~maxhorn/Fingolfin_Krest.jpg
[11:55:47] <fingolfin> not quite recent, though ;)
[11:55:55] <fingolfin> Kefka: aye
[11:57:31] <Nadir> kefka: you mean you didn't know that spacebar thing ???
[11:57:50] <Kefka> nope
[11:58:06] <fingolfin> we all learn, donīt we?
[11:58:25] <Kefka> i can set up a dns server under win 2k
[11:58:32] <Kefka> but i had no idea about that space bar
[11:58:34] <Nadir> It's been a browser feature ever since Lynx and Mosaic.
[11:58:57] <Nadir> And IE was originally based on Mosaic source
[11:58:59] <Kefka> yeah, but whats the point of using it?
[11:59:09] <Nadir> paging ?
[11:59:20] <Kefka> yeah, but a mousewheel is much easier
[11:59:22] <Nadir> It works for e-mail clients and news-readers too
[11:59:40] <Nadir> they didn't have mousewheels in 1970-1990.
[11:59:56] <fingolfin> in fact, ther first mousewheels I saw where after 1998 ;)
[12:00:00] <Nadir> and your mousewheel doesn't work on a VT100
[12:00:04] <fingolfin> and sometimes you like to not use a mouse ;)
[12:00:08] <fingolfin> Nadir: nooooo? ;)
[12:00:13] <Kefka> well, i'm 19
[12:00:21] <Kefka> and although i did use a 8088
[12:00:27] <Kefka> way way back
[12:00:28] <Nadir> Some apps dependency on mice is terrible UI
[12:00:48] <fingolfin> Kefka: well, I am 21; and I never used a 8088 8-)
[12:00:54] <Kefka> heh
[12:00:56] * fingolfin uses space bar all the time in his email reader
[12:01:05] <fingolfin> and in news readers, not that he is using them anymore
[12:01:13] <fingolfin> er,, me, I mean ;)
[12:01:21] <Kefka> but seriously, you find a space bar easier than a mousewheel?
[12:01:35] <Nadir> I find NOT using a mouse easier most of the time
[12:01:41] <Kefka> whoa
[12:01:45] <Kefka> thats where i differ
[12:01:56] <Kefka> i find the keyboard old and am waiting for it to be phased out
[12:02:06] <Kefka> and be replaced with voice recognition
[12:02:32] <Nadir> I was better at Doom with the keyboard than my mice-using fragees !
[12:02:56] <Kefka> well, i'll admit that i started out with just the kb when i played doom
[12:03:25] --> wjp has joined #exult
[12:03:27] <Nadir> Never got used to the mouse interface in Doom, since the kb is what I used in Wolf3d
[12:03:27] <wjp> hi
[12:03:28] <Kefka> but i will demolish anyone who goes against me with just a kb when i am using a combination
[12:03:33] <Nadir> hi wjp
[12:03:40] <Kefka> hey
[12:03:45] <Kefka> wjp
[12:03:52] <Nadir> But then again Exult is useless without a mouse
[12:03:56] <Kefka> i am doing a poll
[12:04:04] <Kefka> spacebar or mousewheel?
[12:04:17] * Nadir guesses...
[12:04:35] <wjp> depends on if I'm using mouse or keyboard at the moment
[12:04:44] <Kefka> ok for web browsing
[12:04:56] <wjp> links or galeon? :-)
[12:05:02] <Kefka> mozilla
[12:05:05] <Kefka> so galeon
[12:05:28] <wjp> generally mouse-wheel
[12:05:32] <Nadir> how old are you wjp ?
[12:05:33] <Kefka> yes!
[12:05:37] <wjp> 21
[12:05:39] <Kefka> i knew i wasn't alone
[12:05:42] <Nadir> You're all young
[12:05:53] <Nadir> I bet Jeff is a spacebar-guy
[12:05:58] <Kefka> nah
[12:06:50] <Kefka> another thing i could never understand is the advantage of lynx, unless you have a very slow connection
[12:07:14] <Kefka> or i suppose an old computer.. but theres another rant i have on that as well
[12:07:27] <wjp> it runs on a console...
[12:07:37] <wjp> it's lightweight, fast...
[12:08:18] <Kefka> hmm
[12:09:05] <fingolfin> but so is dillo, no? ;)
[12:09:06] <wjp> Nadir: how old were you again? 26 or something, right?
[12:09:10] <fingolfin> hi wjp
[12:09:11] <Nadir> 28
[12:09:19] <fingolfin> "old" ,)
[12:09:27] <Nadir> Actually links is better than lynx
[12:09:32] <Nadir> links supports tables
[12:09:46] <fingolfin> I think voice recognition will not be a usable replacement for the keyboard for at least 5 more years
[12:09:48] <wjp> hi Max
[12:09:54] <fingolfin> Nadir: links, or dillo ;)
[12:10:01] <Nadir> never used dillo ?
[12:10:09] <Kefka> i doubt it'll be a replacment in 10 years
[12:10:15] <Kefka> or even 15
[12:10:24] * fingolfin has all three of em on his MacOS X box, but almost never uses them, except to check his sites for lynx compatibility sometimes
[12:10:41] <fingolfin> Kefka: I am careful with betting on times in comupter industriy...
[12:10:58] <fingolfin> Kefka: I still remember hard disk sizes in 1990, and I think any bet I would have made back then would have been lost ;)
[12:11:04] <fingolfin> bet on HD size I mean, or RAM size
[12:11:48] <Nadir> dillo looks good
[12:12:03] <Kefka> i would have too, its just the logistics of voice recognition.. it just seems way too complex
[12:12:53] <Kefka> well, maybe voice recognition will happen in 5 years
[12:13:04] <Kefka> but interactive voice recognition is a different matter
[12:13:13] <Nadir> I believe IBM's Via Voice is free for personal use on Linux. Let's add voice recognition to Exult !
[12:13:34] <fingolfin> Nadir: we already talked about voice output recently ;)
[12:13:38] <Kefka> basically, i want Star Trek-like voice recognition
[12:13:42] <fingolfin> there are some really great new systems available ;)
[12:13:45] <Kefka> anything less is no good
[12:13:47] <fingolfin> Kefka: in your dreams ;)
[12:14:06] <fingolfin> Kefka: the problem with star trek vr: it uses a computer that is as intelligent as a human being at least
[12:14:08] <Kefka> you are probably right unfortunately
[12:14:09] <Nadir> I'm talking about voice input
[12:14:14] <fingolfin> Kefka: for it can resolve ambiguities
[12:14:27] <fingolfin> Nadir: yeah, and I mentioned that we discuess voice *output* recently
[12:14:33] <Nadir> we need both !
[12:14:34] <fingolfin> Nadir: like having all text spoken...
[12:14:41] <fingolfin> Nadir: but output might be easier ;)
[12:15:05] <Kefka> can i have a part for a guard? :)
[12:15:25] <Nadir> anything computer-generated is going to be better than the terrible dialogue at the beginning of SI
[12:16:17] <Nadir> "Indeed. Put it on the tabl"
[12:20:32] <Nadir> s/tabl/table/
[12:21:41] <Nadir> Those screenshots have to be redone !
[12:21:48] <Nadir> Awful dithering...
[12:21:59] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[12:22:07] <Kirben> Hi
[12:22:17] <Nadir> hi
[12:23:19] <Kirben> It would really help if Exult added both Black Gate and Serpent Isle disk settings to exult.cfg by default when Exult fails to find the path for Black Gate/Serpent Isle.
[12:23:31] <Nadir> is the snapshot from after Jeff's commit this morning?
[12:23:44] <Nadir> kirben: empty ones you mean ?
[12:23:50] <Kirben> snapshot is equal to current cvs.
[12:23:56] <Kirben> yes empty
[12:24:01] <Nadir> changelog isn't
[12:24:13] <Kirben> try a refresh
[12:24:13] <Nadir> sorry. Damn IE cache
[12:24:33] <Nadir> yep
[12:24:53] <Nadir> kirben: have you seen the full Exult Studio screenshot ?
[12:25:01] <Kirben> the warning message mentions both BG/SI so could confuse users.
[12:25:04] <Kirben> no
[12:25:28] <Nadir> The warning message means that neither of them is set.
[12:25:39] <Nadir> If you set just one, you get a menu with only that entry
[12:26:51] <Nadir> exultstudio screenshot is on website
[12:27:03] <fingolfin> new screenshots -> go ahead and do some if you want ;)
[12:27:07] <fingolfin> two are on the web page, yeah
[12:27:22] --- fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|lunch
[12:28:35] <Nadir> kirben: maybe it's a good idea to include expack.exe in the snapshots
[12:29:00] <Kirben> Why ? it is already part of tools.
[12:29:41] <Nadir> ah, ok
[12:31:31] <-- Kirben has left IRC (Read error to Kirben[co3007967-a.brasd1.vic.optushome.com.au]: Connection reset by peer)
[12:32:58] --> Kirben has joined #exult
[12:39:30] <Kefka> in /dev/fb0, what does fb stand for?
[12:40:01] <wjp> framebuffer?
[12:40:39] <Kefka> i dunno
[12:50:58] --- Fingolfin|lunch is now known as Fingolfin
[13:28:00] --> Colourless has joined #Exult
[13:28:10] <Colourless> hello everyone
[13:32:41] <-- Kefka has left IRC (Read error to Kefka[cc51780-a.warn1.mi.home.com]: Connection reset by peer)
[13:33:35] <Fingolfin> hi ryan
[13:34:53] --> Kefka has joined #exult
[13:40:50] <wjp> I'm going home; bye
[13:40:52] <-- wjp has left IRC ([x]chat)
[13:40:59] <Kefka> damn, that sounds fun
[13:41:08] <Kefka> bicycling across the US
[13:47:37] <Nadir> fb is framebuffer
[13:48:37] * Colourless feels that he is missing something here
[13:48:47] <Colourless> checks logs
[13:51:03] * Colourless sees nothing of obvious interest except a conversation about voice recognition in Exult
[14:01:04] --> wjp has joined #exult
[14:01:13] <Nadir> wb
[14:01:17] <wjp> thanks
[14:01:26] <Colourless> hi
[14:02:29] <Nadir> fingolfin: where has the link to the IRC logs gone on the webpages ?
[14:03:16] <Colourless> it used to be on the about page
[14:03:22] <Nadir> not there anymore
[14:03:36] <wjp> the introduction is gone from the main page too
[14:04:03] <Nadir> There was also a screenshot on the main page
[14:04:39] <wjp> hmm, it looks like the counters are broken... the main & about counters are still at the same value as yesterday
[14:05:05] <Nadir> nobody checks main, they've all bookmarked the forum
[14:05:09] <Nadir> :)
[14:05:12] <wjp> hehe :-)
[14:06:18] <Colourless> put the site in frames, make it harder for them to do that :)
[14:07:46] <Nadir> have you seen the logos by that guy on the mailing list ?
[14:08:25] <wjp> hmm, I forgot to look... what thread was it in again?
[14:09:46] <Nadir> not hread
[14:09:49] <Colourless> now that we have got new screenshots, someone needs to update the news, or at least, next time the news is updated, mention new screenshots
[14:09:54] <Nadir> Exult Logo
[14:10:21] <wjp> hmm... that was kind of obvious wasn't it?
[14:10:23] * wjp hits self
[14:11:15] <wjp> hmm, not bad
[14:11:39] <wjp> I think I prefer the right one, nice and simple
[14:15:14] <Nadir> either 1 or 4
[14:15:30] <wjp> yeah
[14:15:33] <Nadir> I prefer the "detached" look of 1, but 4 is good to
[14:15:59] <Nadir> colourless: you're right, but some of those screenshots have terrible dithering. Die dithering die
[14:17:26] <Colourless> :)
[14:18:05] <Colourless> 8 bit can't be used for the scaled pics. There are just far too many colours
[14:18:18] <wjp> we should probably show a somewhat fuller save-screen too
[14:18:41] <Colourless> yeah
[14:19:35] <Nadir> 8 bit is enough if you can do good colour reduction. http://exult.sourceforge.net/images/screenshots/cheat.gif is an 8bit rendition of a 2xSaI screenshot made with the GIMP
[14:20:46] <-- Kirben has left IRC (System Meltdown)
[14:22:52] <Colourless> yeah, if it's done well. The shots (made by Jeff?) were done poorly
[14:25:11] <Nadir> let's blame Jeff. It was his fault.
[14:25:12] <Nadir> :)
[14:25:38] <Colourless> yep
[14:28:10] * Fingolfin is abck
[14:28:13] <Fingolfin> web page... hmm
[14:28:21] <Fingolfin> stuff is missing on about & main page? bad
[14:28:28] <Fingolfin> and the counters are wrong again??? worse
[14:28:40] <Nadir> let's blame Fingolfin
[14:28:42] <Nadir> :)
[14:28:46] <Colourless> yes, you removed stuff and didn't put it back
[14:28:56] <Nadir> bad Fingolfin
[14:29:08] <Fingolfin> ugh. sorry
[14:29:21] <Fingolfin> but I donīt understand how it could happen...
[14:29:24] <Fingolfin> strange
[14:29:39] <Nadir> We've seen pics of myself, Dominus and Fingolfin. Wjp and Colourless ?
[14:29:46] <Fingolfin> when was the missing stuff added? in the last few days (after PHP switch) or before?
[14:29:57] <Nadir> looooooooong before
[14:30:08] <Nadir> I believe you did those
[14:30:23] * wjp can't remember having seen pics of Nadir and Dominus
[14:30:31] <wjp> (or a recent one from Fingolfin ;-) )
[14:30:41] <Fingolfin> :)
[14:30:42] * Colourless can't remember anything either
[14:31:10] <Fingolfin> Nadir: loooong before? but I donīt understand it then, cause I copied the HTML from the SourceForge htdocs dir, and based my PHP stuff on that?!?!
[14:31:11] <Fingolfin> weird
[14:31:27] <Fingolfin> the counter is stuck, true, will look into it now
[14:31:34] <Nadir> wjp, colourless: check the IRC logs
[14:31:43] * Fingolfin loves any excuse to make a break hacking this threading stuff
[14:31:54] <wjp> Nadir: from when?
[14:32:02] <Nadir> wjp: today
[14:32:18] <Nadir> wjp: would it be possible to have a "Yesterday" link in exultbot's logs ?
[14:32:27] <wjp> no :-)
[14:32:59] <Nadir> also, do you keep a backup copy of the logs ? In case something goes wrong...
[14:33:37] <wjp> all home dirs are backed up, but I'll download an extra copy
[14:34:46] <Fingolfin> anybody got a back up copy of about/index/whatever is misssing stuff? the copies I have are in content identical to the current stuff or have less
[14:34:56] <Nadir> how large are the logs now ?
[14:35:40] <Nadir> http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:lwwXW0fbYUg:exult.sourceforge.net/+exult
[14:36:06] <wjp> Fingolfin: I've got the index, history & download pages here (from 29 June)
[14:36:10] <Nadir> http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:OC9Uy_E1FVk:exult.sourceforge.net/about.shtml+exult+about+us
[14:36:21] <Nadir> Google's cache is your friend :)
[14:36:59] <wjp> http://www.nkp2000.nl/nkpteams/nkp020.html <-- I'm the one on the left ;-)
[14:37:39] <Colourless> gee fingolfin, think you have a more recent pic? ;-)
[14:38:15] * Colourless goes to see if brightning wjp
[14:38:22] <Colourless> 's pic will make any difference
[14:38:55] <Nadir> wjp: you mean "the least tall one" ?
[14:39:03] <Colourless> hehe
[14:39:05] <wjp> :-)
[14:39:10] <Nadir> :)
[14:39:18] <Fingolfin> wjp: counter ip data gets updated, but not counter itself... gotta check it out
[14:39:32] <Fingolfin> wjp: and if you could email me the backups of the html pages, that would be nice
[14:39:49] <wjp> Nadir: logs are 7.5Mb
[14:40:45] <Nadir> wjp: du -k is your friend :)
[14:41:17] * wjp used du -s, actually
[14:41:18] <Colourless> ahh, gamma correction did the trick, now, if there were only less jpeg artifacts in the image it might be half decent
[14:41:49] <wjp> there used to be a team photo online of the ACM world finals 2000...
[14:42:40] <Colourless> i'm amazed, the photo came up better than I though. There is a hell of a lot of colour missing from the photo missing. The 2 other guys come up better than you do :)
[14:42:51] <wjp> typical :-)
[14:42:59] <Colourless> your hair is GREEN!
[14:43:05] <wjp> no it isn't :-)
[14:43:31] <wjp> ah found it
[14:43:53] <Colourless> could just be colour detail loss, but I'm not so sure ;-)
[14:43:54] <wjp> http://acm.baylor.edu/past/icpc2000/Finals/archive/images/3336253.jpg <-- I'm on the right here... don't mind the weird face expression... I was tired :-)
[14:46:30] <wjp> hmm, why are there no team photos of the ACM contest Fingolfin was in?
[14:46:45] <Nadir> ryan, what about pics of you ?
[14:47:00] <Colourless> i had one, i'm trying to see if I can find it
[14:47:08] <Colourless> but it might be gone
[14:47:58] <wjp> hmm, your name produces quite a few google hits
[14:48:15] <Colourless> me?
[14:48:18] * wjp wonders how many are about you :-)
[14:48:35] <Colourless> what name are you using?
[14:48:42] <wjp> Ryan Nunn
[14:48:46] <Fingolfin> about page fixed
[14:48:49] <wjp> your name, you know :-)
[14:49:05] <wjp> Fingolfin: oh right.. the index... hold on...
[14:49:12] <Fingolfin> I got one ofr that already
[14:49:20] <wjp> k
[14:49:21] <Fingolfin> I will fix it in a moment
[14:50:05] <Colourless> heh, some of that is me, some of it definately is not :)
[14:50:19] <Fingolfin> I am doing dirty fixes right now, though, I need to clean this up later
[14:50:25] <wjp> so... what's Codename: WS?
[14:50:30] <wjp> :-)
[14:51:24] <Colourless> why ask me? There is a page specifically designed to answer that question, duh
[14:51:35] <wjp> gee, you're the manager of "Jillian's Entertainment, a chain of nightclubs in Indianapolis"
[14:52:10] <Colourless> there could be a pic there ;-)
[14:55:27] <Fingolfin> index page fixed, too. now the counters...
[14:56:46] <Fingolfin> hm, I think I know the problem
[14:57:13] * Fingolfin changes rw to r+, and makes another fix
[14:57:34] <Colourless> nope, can't find a picture of me
[14:57:48] <wjp> if anyone wants a local copy of the exult logs, they're at http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlogs.tar.bz2
[14:58:00] <wjp> (but I'll remove it soon)
[14:58:02] <Colourless> but you know me, i'm Colourless, so you wouldn't be able to see me anyway ;-)
[14:58:03] <Nadir> colourless: that looks like an excuse
[14:58:21] <wjp> (download is only 1Mb)
[15:01:42] <Fingolfin> counter seems to work again
[15:02:06] <Colourless> you say that everyday ;-)
[15:02:15] <Fingolfin> a) fixed "rw", real value must be "r+" in fopen, b) addede a ftruncate
[15:02:18] <Fingolfin> ;)
[15:02:25] <Fingolfin> letīs see what bug I have to fix tomorrow
[15:02:31] <wjp> hmm, shouldn't we change the screenshot we show on the frontpage?
[15:02:40] <Fingolfin> this counter worked fine for me a long time, but it was never stressed as much as it is on exult.sf.net
[15:02:55] <Fingolfin> wjp: yeah, comes next, I just wanted to get anthing up
[15:02:57] <Nadir> wjp: what with ?
[15:03:14] <wjp> another one ;-)
[15:03:14] <Fingolfin> wjp: also, I used a nasty hack to get it there ;) nasty meaning I didnīt use my PHP system in a clean fashion, that I will do now, though
[15:03:42] <Kefka> http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a9848357/htms/photos/haar.jpg
[15:03:46] <Kefka> that ones still the best
[15:03:56] <wjp> is that the one with the hair? :-)
[15:03:57] <Fingolfin> lol
[15:04:06] <Kefka> heheh
[15:04:10] <wjp> yeah, it is :-)
[15:04:13] <Nadir> lots of hair
[15:04:26] <wjp> haar is probably german for hair too, right?
[15:04:35] <Fingolfin> yeah
[15:04:39] <Colourless> hehe, that should be doms face pic in Exult
[15:04:46] <wjp> lol
[15:06:54] <Colourless> everyone agree?
[15:07:02] <Fingolfin> yeah
[15:07:06] <Fingolfin> anybody say nay?
[15:08:22] <Nadir> good idea
[15:08:32] <wjp> from the other pics on his homepage he looks different now, though
[15:08:44] <wjp> or in '97 anyway :-)
[15:08:56] <Kefka> i agree and i am unanimous in that
[15:09:16] --> Dominus has joined #exult
[15:09:19] <Kefka> uh oh
[15:09:22] <wjp> oops
[15:09:23] <Dominus> hi again
[15:09:23] <Kefka> everybody quiet
[15:09:26] <wjp> quick! hide!
[15:09:27] <Kefka> shhh
[15:09:43] <Fingolfin> dum dee dum
[15:09:44] <Colourless> :)
[15:09:47] * Fingolfin whistles innocently
[15:09:48] <Dominus> heeelllloooooooooooo
[15:09:49] * wjp attempts to look innocent
[15:09:51] <Colourless> no, we were not talking about you Dom
[15:09:53] <Dominus> anyone here?
[15:09:54] <Fingolfin> oh hi dom
[15:10:03] <wjp> oh, hi, didn't see you there :-)
[15:10:03] <Fingolfin> I have to go now, cya
[15:10:09] --- Fingolfin is now known as Fingolfin|not_here
[15:10:34] * wjp subtly changes some things in the logs behind his back
[15:10:40] * Fingolfin|not_here eyes carefully around the channelīs corner to see if dominus is still there
[15:11:21] * Dominus has the logs allready loaded
[15:11:26] * Dominus reads
[15:12:14] <Dominus> Iīd say I had a good timing right now
[15:12:22] <wjp> did everyone who wants it get the .tar.bz2?
[15:12:31] <wjp> Dominus: yeah, timing was great :-)
[15:12:32] <Dominus> yep
[15:12:54] --- Fingolfin|not_here is now known as Fingolfin
[15:13:05] <Fingolfin> Dominus: we were only joking of course <cough>
[15:13:18] <Dominus> so, Colourless what is WS?
[15:13:35] <wjp> http://www.users.on.net/triforce/codename_ws/
[15:13:51] <Dominus> I know :-)
[15:13:55] <wjp> k :-)
[15:14:00] <Dominus> Just wanted to ask anyway
[15:14:06] <Colourless> :)
[15:14:09] * wjp did that too :-)
[15:14:24] * Colourless decides to remove the page
[15:16:37] <Colourless> done
[15:16:48] <Dominus> nooooooooooooo
[15:17:52] <wjp> *sniff*
[15:18:12] <Dominus> *that page will long be remembered
[15:18:41] * Dominus brigtens up
[15:18:55] <Dominus> so, well, chimera|wookin, what is WS?
[15:18:58] <Colourless> well, i haven't had any intention on actually finishing it for some months now.
[15:19:14] <Dominus> * now that you canīt refer me to a page anymore
[15:19:30] <Dominus> chimera|wookin was meant as Colourless
[15:19:34] * Nadir was away, reads the logs and laughs aloud
[15:22:17] <Nadir> bye guys. gotta go (damn meetings)
[15:22:22] <-- Nadir has left IRC (Read error to Nadir[]: Connection reset by peer)
[15:22:25] <Colourless> cya
[15:29:07] <Colourless> if you want, here's a screenshots from cnws: ;-) http://www.users.on.net/triforce/mouse.jpg
[15:29:58] <wjp> that's one big mouse cursor :-)
[15:30:13] <Colourless> yeah it is :)
[15:30:52] * wjp saves the WS page he still has open ;-)
[15:31:10] <Dominus> wjp: you are my man!!!
[15:31:30] <Dominus> put it up on geocities so it is not lost!
[15:31:59] <Dominus> ;-)
[15:35:17] <Fingolfin> hm, the thumbnail pictures on the screen shots page are too big in file size, I think...
[15:35:36] <Fingolfin> we should agree on a single picture format, too... all PNG or all JPG me thinks
[15:35:46] <Dominus> right
[15:35:49] <Dominus> bmp
[15:35:51] <Dominus> :-)
[15:35:54] <Fingolfin> possibly jpg for the thumbs, and pnh for the full size pics
[15:35:56] <Colourless> PNG for all of them
[15:36:04] <Fingolfin> s/pnh/png/
[15:36:07] <wjp> Colourless: can we patch .vga files yet? (paperdol.vga, shape 120, frame 4, specifically)
[15:36:11] <Colourless> (full size)
[15:37:13] <Colourless> we can theoretically.
[15:37:24] <Colourless> what's from with that shape?
[15:37:44] <wjp> that's the "paperdoll oddity with two rings" bug
[15:38:09] <wjp> there's a weird purple bar (colour 247, IIRC) on the right side of that shape
[15:38:28] <Colourless> yeah, noticed it myself. 121 frame 4 has it as well
[15:38:38] <Colourless> and 122
[15:38:40] <Fingolfin> Dominus: when did you update the online FAQ last?
[15:39:13] <Dominus> 27.07
[15:39:19] <Colourless> wjp: it would be easier to just put corrected version in exult.flx or something and use that instead of a patched paperdol.vag
[15:39:22] <Colourless> vga even
[15:39:35] <Fingolfin> Dominus: ok
[15:40:06] <Dominus> damn, I just deleted my exult.cfg file
[15:43:42] <Colourless> here's a newer cnws pic (i just made it): http://www.users.on.net/triforce/ws.png
[15:44:26] <Fingolfin> that is pretty dark over here...
[15:45:09] <Colourless> that could be because the backgound is actually black ;-)
[15:45:31] <wjp> Colourless: loading a quick save from the new save screen doesn't repaint the screen it seems
[15:46:19] <Dominus> btw, Colourless, nice effect when saving while you have an invisibilty ring on
[15:46:32] <Colourless> dom, what happens?
[15:46:42] <Colourless> wjp: yeah, i've noticed that myself
[15:46:57] <Dominus> distorted screenshot in savescreen
[15:47:27] <Colourless> this I've got to see :)
[15:48:15] <Colourless> it could be wjp's fault :)
[15:48:22] <wjp> yeah, it could :-)
[15:48:32] <Dominus> looks like you have infrared sight
[15:48:54] <Colourless> probably because of blending that wjp put in
[15:49:08] <Colourless> could be using the wrong palette
[15:49:18] <Fingolfin> web site changes finished (for now)... I really really should move the news over to mysql anytime soon ;)
[15:49:57] <Fingolfin> in the future, the news entries should mention who wrote īem...
[15:50:37] <Dominus> Colourless, wjp, like the picture of the earth serpent when it shows up
[15:50:58] <wjp> eeew.... that screenshot looks really messed up
[15:51:04] <wjp> all purple, red and green
[15:51:08] <Dominus> btw, does the guardian still taunt you while sleeping?
[15:51:54] <Colourless> hehe. the screenshot is pretty odd. it's a palette issue for sure
[15:52:08] <wjp> hmm, it looks like screenshots made in the dark have the same problem, although not as extreme
[15:53:03] <wjp> it's probably the filter
[15:53:05] <Colourless> your blending algorithm should always use the normal palette
[15:53:20] <wjp> too many indices have the same colour, so it picks the first one
[15:53:26] <wjp> right
[15:53:59] <wjp> maybe the save screen should also always change to the normal palette
[15:54:11] <Colourless> could be a cheat :)
[15:54:28] <wjp> yeah, but if it is you're already cheating by using a bigger resolution
[15:54:33] <Colourless> exactly
[15:54:38] <Colourless> doesn't matter than
[15:55:00] <Colourless> s/than/then
[15:55:44] <Dominus> I need a location in BG where the Guardian taunts you
[15:56:22] <Dominus> somehow he doesnīt show up while sleeping anymore
[15:56:25] <Dominus> for me
[15:57:19] <wjp> start a new game and walk north, I think
[15:58:27] <wjp> EEEW... what happened to lightning?
[15:58:44] * Dominus opts to have skip introduction still in
[15:59:16] <Colourless> wjp: ???
[15:59:30] <wjp> lightning is all yellowish-reddish
[16:00:05] <Colourless> that's because the lightning increases the 'brightness' of the palette.
[16:00:39] <Colourless> i don't think that is how the original did it
[16:01:02] <wjp> Dominus: Guardian speech still works for me (in some places at least)
[16:01:12] <Dominus> it should just be a quick bright flash
[16:01:16] <Dominus> QUICK
[16:01:40] <Dominus> hmm, Exult doesnīt show the Guardian face anymore when speech is disabled
[16:01:46] <Colourless> exult has always done that but recently Jeff change the storms to use the correct darker palette instead of darkening the current palette. The darker palettes don't brighten well
[16:02:13] <Dominus> Colourless: lightning was always lasting too long in Exult
[16:02:27] <wjp> ...and Paulon (on rgcud) was already complaining about the old lightning...
[16:02:32] <Dominus> just start SI in U7run to see the difference
[16:03:02] <Colourless> dom: i know, exult has had lightning problems since always as far as I know
[16:05:29] <wjp> why not just briefly flash a full white screen or something?
[16:07:06] <Dominus> wjp: Guardian speech with speech disabled - does it show the face? With Speech enabled the taunting still works for me as well
[16:07:31] <wjp> hmm, when should it show his face?
[16:07:48] <Dominus> while sleeping
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[16:11:35] <wjp> hmm, weird
[16:11:44] <wjp> it does show the face, but in a very weird way
[16:12:35] <Colourless> how so?
[16:12:37] <Colourless> screenshot?
[16:13:05] <wjp> oh... I know... it should be translucent
[16:14:31] <wjp> it's all yellow/brownish instead
[16:16:08] <Dominik> could it be that it doesnīt show with scalers?
[16:16:10] <Colourless> yeah. those are the trans colours
[16:16:52] <wjp> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/guardian.png
[16:17:12] <wjp> could this have been centered in the original?
[16:18:03] <wjp> Dominik: no, there's no way to bypass the scaler
[16:18:22] <Colourless> wjp: it is supposed to be centered
[16:18:38] <Colourless> the text is also supposed to appear below the face
[16:18:42] <Dominik> ah, okay
[16:19:01] <Dominik> thatīs basicly the bug I put into the tracker with the earth serpent showing
[16:19:39] <Dominik> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=447101&group_id=2335&atid=102335
[16:35:35] <Dominik> ok, got to go, meet a friend
[16:35:37] <Dominik> bbl
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[19:03:24] <wjp> bye
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[19:07:43] * Colourless decides to leave as well
[19:07:45] <Colourless> cya
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[19:27:14] <Fingolfin> argh! where are colourless, wjp, nadir, freedman when I need them???? or kirben
[19:27:16] <Fingolfin> <sigh>
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[20:13:30] <chimera|wookin> finny!
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[21:17:34] <belerofon> hello
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