#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Aug 2006 (GMT)

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[17:08:52] <SB-X> is anyone on the team here?
[17:09:31] <Zerothis> probably not
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[18:58:41] <SB-X> servus: you use a vi interface to irc?
[19:10:01] <servus> SB-X: No, I'm on X-Chat 2.6 in KDE.
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[19:44:49] <SB-X> hi Baastuul
[19:48:16] <Baastuul> Hi, SB-X.
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[20:17:35] <wjp> SB-X: a bit late, but I'm here
[20:22:30] <ettin> wjp: oh, so you are one of the developers?
[20:24:28] <Baastuul> No! wjp is nobody! Nobody! Nooobbbooodddyyyy!
[20:24:31] * Baastuul leaps out of a nearby window.
[20:25:03] <ettin> Baastuul: :P
[20:25:12] <SB-X> wjp: what do you need to build tools? i installed bison++ and flex but it still stopped at usecode/compiler/ucparse.yy
[20:25:40] <SB-X> i was able to build exult by rerunning configure and not building tools
[20:25:51] <ettin> wjp: I'm now adopting the debian package and found some "problems" (see #1532668 - FHS Compliance)
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[20:32:00] <wjp> I don't really see the point of /usr/games myself, to be honest
[20:32:44] <wjp> and it appears to be an optional part of the FHS anyway
[20:33:05] * SB-X plays /usr/games/frozen-bubble.
[20:33:14] <wjp> so I don't really see the problem here, unless there's a debian policy about this
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[20:33:30] <wjp> SB-X: I'm not all too sure about the exact requirements on flex/bison versions
[20:34:51] <wjp> which versions did you install?
[20:35:38] <SB-X> 1.21-9-1
[20:36:07] <SB-X> i also tried it with another version
[20:36:40] <wjp> hm, oh, you said bison++
[20:36:47] <wjp> I think you just need plain bison, actually
[20:36:54] <SB-X> i only installed bison++ because bison didnt work
[20:37:09] <wjp> I'm using bison 2.1 here
[20:37:38] <ettin> wjp: there is: "As described in the FHS, binaries of games should be installed in the directory /usr/games"
[20:38:15] <SB-X> wjp: the newest version in ubuntu breezy's repository is 2.0
[20:38:17] <ettin> wjp: I think it is optional in the sense that you shouldn't rely on it in all systems, not in the sense that it is a good idea to separate the games in a different directory
[20:39:21] <wjp> wouldn't it be easiest to simply run configure with the right --bindir, --datadir, etc... options?
[20:40:58] <ettin> wjp: autotools don't support more than one --bindir, etc.
[20:41:11] <wjp> the idea /usr/games feels like a rather arbitrary directory to put things. (i.e., why not also /usr/office, /usr/devel, or /usr/graphics, etc...?)
[20:41:47] <wjp> I thought you were suggesting to put everything including the tools in /usr/games/bin in the request?
[20:41:48] <SB-X> they probably just decided on using that directory because it was a defacto standard when the standard/policy was drafted
[20:42:17] <SB-X> that is, most games already used that directory
[20:42:47] <ettin> wjp: well, there is more than one way to solve this... ;)
[20:43:31] <ettin> wjp: that's another option: "convert" the user tools to games (that would only require changing manpages I think)
[20:44:37] <ettin> wjp: that way it would still be possible to isntall thinks in /usr/bin
[20:44:53] <ettin> and it wouldn't be a problem if distributions want to install in /usr/games
[20:47:09] <ettin> the other way is to clearly differentiate exult and exult-studio...
[20:47:26] <ettin> I have been working on a patch for the latter
[20:47:29] <wjp> 'differentiate' ?
[20:49:16] <ettin> wjp: yeah
[20:49:47] <wjp> that word doesn't have any meaning for me here... what do you mean?
[20:51:46] <ettin> wjp: oh, I'm sorry, I mean separate
[20:51:54] <ettin> wjp: for example, exult_studio currently uses exult datadir
[20:52:45] <ettin> I was thinking of using an optional option in ./configure like --with-studio-datadir=DIR or something like that
[20:53:43] <ettin> actually, I have already implemented that one
[20:57:11] <ettin> wjp: anyway, what do you think about it? which option is less bad? or do you hate both? *grin*
[21:03:36] <wjp> I would prefer not to add options as finegrained as those to configure
[21:04:54] <wjp> so one policy in debian is that the binary location and the manpage category are linked?
[21:09:36] <ettin> wjp: I'm not sure the policy explicitly says something like that, it is more about common sense: if something is installed under games it should have the manpage in the "games" section as well
[21:11:39] <ettin> wjp: of course, it would be possible to fix this only for debian and not bother you about it, but I thought other distributions will have the same problem soon or later if they want FHS compliance...
[21:15:57] <wjp> or a subtle variation of the same problem, more likely
[21:16:20] <wjp> which would then need even more changes :-)
[21:18:31] <ettin> heh
[21:19:19] <wjp> I'm not a big fan of the FHS myself (which you probably noticed by now :-) )
[21:19:53] <SB-X> which distros are not FHS compliant?
[21:21:06] <ettin> wjp: well, I don't actually care that much about it, but when it comes to create a package for a distribution...
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[21:22:38] <ettin> SB-X: I have no idea, but they probably don't advertise it as a feature ;)
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[21:35:51] <ettin> wjp: so, do you think it is still possible to find a good way to fix this? or it will remain as it is?
[21:40:28] <wjp> At this point I'd prefer an ad-hoc solution for the debian package. If other distributions/packages have similar problems we can think about a proper solution. I don't like trying to extrapolate a 'proper' solution based on only one instance of the problem
[21:42:18] <SB-X> ucmain.o: In function `main':
[21:42:19] <SB-X> /home/sbx/build/exult/usecode/compiler/ucmain.cc:107: undefined reference to `yy
[21:42:19] <SB-X> in'
[21:42:19] <SB-X> /home/sbx/build/exult/usecode/compiler/ucmain.cc:93: undefined reference to `yyi
[21:42:19] <SB-X> n'
[21:42:38] <SB-X> collect2: ld returned 1 exit status
[21:42:44] <SB-X> that's the error i get trying to build exult with tools
[21:45:31] <wjp> try a 'make maintainer-clean' in usecode/compiler and then another make
[21:47:23] <ettin> wjp: ok, I understand...
[21:49:31] <SB-X> i have to run configure again
[21:51:25] <wjp> hm, right... maintainer-clean cleans a bit too much
[21:51:31] <wjp> but clean doesn't clean enough
[21:58:06] <SB-X> ah k
[21:58:17] <SB-X> that worked and it finished building successfully
[21:58:19] <SB-X> thanks wjp
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[22:20:56] <ettin> wjp: btw, I also sent two patches (one of which is only partially related to the FHS problem)
[22:21:11] <ettin> wjp: the other patch includes the manpages for exult_studio and ucc
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