#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Dec 2013 (GMT)

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[11:55:29] <sh4rm4> hmm i never owned plain serpent isle... so it's kinda hard to guess what features are added by silver seed
[11:55:56] <sh4rm4> i especially wonder what would happen using a serpent gate when the addon is not installed
[11:59:33] <Dominus> sh4rm4: when you use a serpent gate, nothing gets added. Except when you have the amulet that Karnax gives you with the addon
[11:59:50] <Dominus> when you *use* the amulet
[12:00:20] <sh4rm4> ah, so you simply couldnt use the serpent gates without the addon ?
[12:00:25] <Dominus> then you get to the added part and can get some special items. That's all it adds to the original
[12:00:28] <Dominus> sh4
[12:00:36] <sh4rm4> i see
[12:00:38] <Dominus> sh4rm4: sure you can use the serpent gates
[12:00:44] <Dominus> with the jawbone
[12:00:57] <sh4rm4> oh ? where would they lead to then ?
[12:01:13] <Dominus> to the central serpent gates hub
[12:01:21] <Dominus> dark path
[12:01:26] <sh4rm4> hmm... ok
[12:01:52] <sh4rm4> and the goal of the game was restoring balance
[12:02:02] <sh4rm4> however there are now 2 ways to do it ?
[12:02:15] <sh4rm4> the silver seed way (tree of balance) and the serpent isle way ?
[12:02:53] <Dominus> nah, the goal is to get batlin, find Gwenno and get home :)
[12:03:04] <sh4rm4> ah
[12:03:52] <Dominus> the other stuff just happens along the way
[12:03:52] <sh4rm4> what about the chaos ghost in the house in the swamps ?
[12:04:06] <Dominus> what about him?
[12:04:17] <sh4rm4> he tells you how to restore balance
[12:04:23] <sh4rm4> is that a silver seed addition ?
[12:04:38] <Dominus> you should never speak to that ghost. he's a bug :)
[12:04:45] <sh4rm4> oh ? how so ?
[12:05:02] <Dominus> something the original messed up
[12:05:21] <sh4rm4> hmm
[12:05:25] <sh4rm4> do you know his name ?
[12:05:36] <sh4rm4> so i could read about it in the ultimacodex wiki
[12:05:53] <Dominus> you should only speak to the chaos hierophant much later in the game, that he speaks to you before is unintended
[12:06:55] <Dominus> along the way suddenly the Serpent of balance contacts you and asks you to restore balance and the chaos hierophant is part of that
[12:07:56] <sh4rm4> ah i see: http://wiki.ultimacodex.com/wiki/Chaos_Hierophant
[12:08:03] <sh4rm4> Ultima VII Part Two has a major plot-spoiling bug whereby attempting to talk to any ghost will initiate a conversation with the Chaos Hierophant. This is easily demonstrated by going to the Exploded Powder Mill on the way to the Royal Mint. The bug has been fixed in Serpent Isle Fixes.
[12:08:47] <sh4rm4> i wonder if it's possible to inject those fixes into the original
[12:09:05] <Dominus> not without hacks upon hacks upon hacks
[12:10:09] <Dominus> we already have other fixes for that damn hierophant in place
[12:10:33] <Dominus> to prevent him initiating speaking to you in other places
[12:10:38] <sh4rm4> hmm my naive assumption is that you take the modified usecode, and inject it into the original data file
[12:11:40] <Dominus> I'm not sure it's a pure usecode bug
[12:14:18] <Dominus> rev 7397 was the latest Chaos Hierophant bug fix
[12:16:06] <sh4rm4> ok, that one definitely is no usecode fix
[12:17:40] <Dominus> it just shows how easy it is to mess up things in Exult and the games :)
[12:21:10] <sh4rm4> indeed... especially considering the amount of special case hacks in the exult code
[12:21:39] <Dominus> we try to avoid them but...
[12:22:19] <sh4rm4> btw i just saw a commit where marzo modified SI fixes usecode... and noted that the usecode uses C++-style classes
[12:22:37] <Dominus> yes?
[12:22:47] <sh4rm4> seems kinda hard to imagine that the original usecode used classes as well
[12:23:17] <sh4rm4> (because it was written at a time where C++ was a huge hack on top of C)
[12:23:20] <Dominus> *our* usecode uses that, don't know about the original
[12:23:41] <sh4rm4> right, and it probably doesn't make things easier...
[12:24:14] * Dominus warns sh4rm4 to please not start again that useless c vs c++ rant
[12:24:22] <sh4rm4> :)
[12:24:47] <sh4rm4> nah, i just hoped that usecode would be a simple, BASIC-like language
[12:25:28] <sh4rm4> anyway, thanks for your explanations....
[12:25:34] * sh4rm4 wanders back to the game
[12:26:47] <Dominus> sh4rm4: https://sourceforge.net/p/exult/code/HEAD/tree/exult/trunk/content/sifixes/src/npcs/ghost.uc example of our usecode, the hierophant fix
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[15:50:49] <sh4rm4> boah what a stress- i was in the middle of the "abandoned outpost" dungeon when my crew ran out of food
[15:51:14] <sh4rm4> i litteraly made it back home to serpent fang when before iolo starved to death
[15:51:30] <sh4rm4> (he crashed down exactly when i arrived at the kitchen)
[15:51:56] <sh4rm4> i guess the spellbook would have been of much help...
[16:54:47] <sh4rm4> hmm there's a bug in SI... when you enter the maze with the catman and have the belt of power, you will keep the raised strength level
[16:55:15] <sh4rm4> however when you give the belt to someone else in your crew, he will keep the same strength
[16:56:04] <sh4rm4> but when you remove it, his ordinary strength will be decreased by the difference that it made when you originally wore it
[16:56:20] <sh4rm4> so in my case i had strength 21, which the belt made 30
[16:56:31] <sh4rm4> then i gave it to iolo, now he has strength 12
[16:56:42] <sh4rm4> (before 21)
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[17:13:51] <sh4rm4> so the belt has some internal status: "subtract 9 when removing", and adding it has no effect
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[19:12:10] <TheCycoONE> sh4rm4: that's amusing
[19:14:22] <Dominus> sh4rm4: we have a similar problem with the helm of light
[19:14:37] <Dominus> and I think there are old bug reports for both.
[19:14:57] <sh4rm4> helm of light gets removed and light stays on ?
[19:16:03] <Dominus> more like the ambient lighting doesn't change or something like that
[19:19:01] <Dominus> hm, seems that was an opengl scaler only thing...
[19:21:53] <Dominus> sh4rm4: https://sourceforge.net/p/exult/bugs/859/ seems this is an original bug
[19:22:01] <Dominus> the belt thing
[19:25:46] <sh4rm4> interesting
[19:25:49] <Dominus> apparently Jeff fixed some of our issues back in 2005-07-24 but the original ones seem to have kept
[19:25:57] <Dominus> or got reverted again?
[19:26:25] <sh4rm4> unsure, i'm playing the original in dosbox
[19:26:31] <sh4rm4> too many bugs in exult :(
[19:26:56] <sh4rm4> and it's kinda slow as well, only 2-10 fps
[19:27:07] <Dominus> ah, so the whole time you were talking about the original?
[19:27:09] <sh4rm4> so running in exult is more like walking
[19:27:27] <sh4rm4> well, except when i reported the cantra bugs
[19:27:46] <Dominus> curios, running is really running for me in Exult, except it is of course not overblown zapping...
[19:28:01] <sh4rm4> it's much faster in dosbox tho
[19:28:25] <Dominus> of course it is much faster in dosbox but not as original :)
[19:28:46] <sh4rm4> hehe right
[19:28:49] <Dominus> anyway, good to know that you are playing the original, saves me from replying
[19:29:01] <sh4rm4> btw
[19:29:11] <sh4rm4> noone seems to care about the cantra bug
[19:29:27] <sh4rm4> shall i create an official bugtracker issues that someone takes care of it ?
[19:29:48] <Dominus> I was about to mention the official bug tracker
[19:29:56] <Dominus> things tend to be forgotten here
[19:30:15] <sh4rm4> ok
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[20:59:40] <Dominus> sh4rm4: an attached diff file is much better than a link that expires some day or even worse a fixed date soon
[21:00:02] <Dominus> good night
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