#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Feb 2002 (GMT)

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[00:00:48] <freedman> Yes. I've thought that a few people reported it. But maybe it's just one person complaining a lot:-)
[00:00:59] <wjp> hmm, I guess I should try to fetch ... uh.. what's-his-name before going to the lever room. (the thief)
[00:01:39] <freedman> Can't remember... I better go find the walkthrough.
[00:01:50] <wjp> stefano?
[00:02:27] <Kharza-kzad> you have to have him yea
[00:02:34] <Kharza-kzad> have to both pull the lever at once
[00:05:18] <wjp> ok... got him
[00:06:23] <wjp> ah, and here are the levers
[00:07:08] <wjp> saving still works, though
[00:07:08] <freedman> Noooo!!!
[00:07:30] <-- Miguel|away has left IRC (Remote closed the connection)
[00:07:37] <Kharza-kzad> hmm if there were a freedom crash, I'd think it would have something to do with arcadion and the sword
[00:07:38] <wjp> I did teleport around, though. (but only alt-t, not F3)
[00:07:48] <wjp> have the black sword too
[00:08:00] <wjp> hmm... wait... 'lever room'?
[00:08:11] <wjp> maybe he meant the one with the dozen levers?
[00:08:15] <wjp> (the puzzles)
[00:08:22] <freedman> I think so.
[00:08:26] <Kharza-kzad> ohhhhhhhh yea
[00:08:29] <freedman> It's towards the end.
[00:08:32] <wjp> ah, ok. I was thinking the two-lever room
[00:08:36] <wjp> yeah, I'm there now
[00:08:42] <wjp> MoF really isn't that long in god mode
[00:10:04] <freedman> Walkthrough: There are 8 levers in the center, numbered top to bottom, left to right. Pull levers 1, 2, 4, 5, 7.
[00:12:09] <sbx> 'away
[00:12:11] <sbx> oops
[00:12:14] <freedman> Ken: Can't remember if I asked this before... but how did you like working in the games industry?
[00:12:14] <wjp> still working
[00:12:32] <sbx> hmm
[00:12:33] <wjp> (saving, I mean)
[00:12:55] <freedman> wjp: Maybe I'll try with ElectricFence tonight (if I have the patience).
[00:13:01] <sbx> freedman!!
[00:13:06] <freedman> Hi!
[00:13:32] <sbx> Hi :-) never seem to see you in heere :P
[00:15:54] <wjp> only problem I've seen is that Gustacio, Bucia and Flindo are still in the courtroom when you return
[00:16:00] <freedman> Hard to find time at work.
[00:21:32] <freedman> Bug report also says he can't get Stephano to leave the party.
[00:22:01] <wjp> he left when I left MoF, for me
[00:22:22] <freedman> Right. That's what I remember, too.
[00:23:56] <sbx> Did something happen to the forum earlier?
[00:24:41] <freedman> Hey, I noticed that the bug report says he's playing at 400x300x2.
[00:25:04] <wjp> uh oh
[00:25:27] <freedman> In the past, that's exposed some of the world-wrapping bugs.
[00:25:42] <Kharza-kzad> jeff: I would still enjoy it I think
[00:26:08] <freedman> K: How come you switched? I see lots of game jobs advertised in CA.
[00:26:08] <Kharza-kzad> I guess I did about 4 or 5 years
[00:26:28] <Kharza-kzad> Well my old boss lured me here, and the work has been fun
[00:26:37] <Kharza-kzad> Learned alot here that I wouldn't have at a game co
[00:26:44] <freedman> :-) That's the important thing.
[00:27:00] <Kharza-kzad> yea enjoying the work is the key
[00:27:08] <freedman> Is it as high-pressure as I've heard?
[00:27:09] <Kharza-kzad> digital anvil was a great place to work
[00:27:21] <Kharza-kzad> well the smaller the place the more pressure
[00:27:38] <freedman> Same as with other industries.
[00:27:42] <Kharza-kzad> DA was fairly low pressure, eclipse and crack were quite high
[00:28:00] <freedman> What happened to DA? Are they still around?
[00:28:13] <Kharza-kzad> yep they are basically microsoft austin now hehe
[00:28:24] <freedman> Blech.
[00:28:25] <Kharza-kzad> all the guys have MS email addresses and the web site is gone
[00:28:47] <freedman> I'd feel like I was working for the Fellowship:-)
[00:28:57] <Kharza-kzad> hehehe
[00:29:22] <wjp> ok, just re-did the levers room in 400x300. Saving still ok
[00:29:52] <freedman> Wish I could get a job working on console games... But it's a wasteland up here in OR as far as any game development goes.
[00:30:05] <Kharza-kzad> I've missed it alot, been programming on my old eclipse engine lately
[00:30:18] <freedman> What's that?
[00:30:23] <Kharza-kzad> it's got a sourceforge thing goin and all since we open sourced it (which was cool)
[00:30:28] <Kharza-kzad> Genesis3D
[00:30:43] <Kharza-kzad> not sure what the page is for sourceforge but it's got a site at www.genesis3d.com
[00:30:53] <Kharza-kzad> it's very dated, been trying to update it a bit
[00:31:01] <freedman> Nice web page.
[00:31:53] <Kharza-kzad> it was a good crew, but we had two projects canned in rapid succession so the company went splat
[00:32:37] <freedman> I've heard that's pretty common.
[00:33:02] <freedman> Anyone made a game with this?
[00:33:27] <Kharza-kzad> Not really. There's a big indie community around it, but they never finish anything
[00:33:34] <Kharza-kzad> I love those guys though and wanna help em out hehe
[00:33:57] <Kharza-kzad> we had alot of big places look at us but decide against using it
[00:34:09] <Kharza-kzad> they'd usually fork over the cash and get unreal or lithtech
[00:34:25] <Kharza-kzad> ours was free as long as you released any source you modified
[00:34:48] <Kharza-kzad> had about the same capabilities enginewise as anything else
[00:34:48] <freedman> Looks like $10000 gets a full license. Not much for a real company to spend.
[00:35:07] <Kharza-kzad> yea I think it used to be 50 if you didn't want to release your source
[00:35:22] <Kharza-kzad> unreal I think was 500k and lithtech 300k at the time
[00:35:38] <Kharza-kzad> q2 was 1 million I think or maybe less
[00:35:53] <freedman> Wow! I don't even like 3D much.
[00:36:00] <Kharza-kzad> valve and ion and some others looked at us
[00:36:08] <Kharza-kzad> I think they ended up not taking us because of the editor
[00:36:16] <Kharza-kzad> the editor was really really bad for awhile
[00:36:29] <Kharza-kzad> it's still not great, not nearly as good as the unreal editor, but it's better than it used to be
[00:36:48] <freedman> I guess that'd be important.
[00:37:06] <Kharza-kzad> well our own development was a disaster as far as level design
[00:37:13] <freedman> Hmm.... supports Glide and D3D. How about OpenGL.
[00:37:32] <Kharza-kzad> our mid level managers were ex origin for the most part, they had no experience in the 3d world
[00:37:44] <Kharza-kzad> so they would hire these 100k a year 3dsmax artists and expect them to build levels
[00:37:58] <Kharza-kzad> They were completely helpless, it was a debacle
[00:38:12] <Kharza-kzad> eventually they started hiring real designers and things turned around hehe
[00:38:38] <Kharza-kzad> could get 3 hard core map makers that understood fun and solid level design for the price of one expensive art guy
[00:38:58] <Kharza-kzad> No we never did OpenGL
[00:39:00] <freedman> I didn't know artists made that much...
[00:39:12] <Kharza-kzad> both the products we had going were for Microsoft hehe
[00:39:24] <Kharza-kzad> artists in Austin make alot o money
[00:39:36] <freedman> Blech. (Although I interviewed there once, long ago...)
[00:39:42] <Kharza-kzad> it's crowded though, but there were alot of good ones
[00:40:07] <Kharza-kzad> DA has alot of good art guys
[00:40:12] <freedman> Must have been a bit strange going from Austin to the Bay Area. That place is EXPENSIVE.
[00:40:16] <Kharza-kzad> they pay out the nose for em
[00:40:40] <Kharza-kzad> yea it was bad. I got a huge raise and then got here and noticed my standard of living was third world hehe
[00:40:56] <Kharza-kzad> it's gotten better though, apartments are cheaper now by alot
[00:41:53] <Kharza-kzad> any of you guys play gameboy advance?
[00:41:57] <freedman> Prices there are kind of amazing, esp. real estate.
[00:42:17] <Kharza-kzad> I've had mine for awhile and bought a flash linker and stuff, but I've just now started playing it seriously. I'm about to go blind
[00:42:20] <freedman> K: No, just older GameBoy.
[00:42:31] <Kharza-kzad> the screen is so dark it's bloody impossible to see
[00:42:53] <Kharza-kzad> it was kinda annoying when I was just messing aorund with coding for it, but trying to actually finish a game is like impossible
[00:43:16] <Kharza-kzad> thinking about forking out 100 bucks for a tv adapter
[00:43:41] <freedman> I've thought about getting some of the free tools for GBA and playing around.
[00:43:51] <Kharza-kzad> hehe well I did it for awhile
[00:43:54] <freedman> Have you tried the software emulators like Boycott?
[00:44:03] <Kharza-kzad> started on a remake of the bard's tale
[00:44:19] <Kharza-kzad> got into the fonts and stuff and made some bad mistake and had no source control and no debugger
[00:44:30] <Kharza-kzad> I haven't tried emulators for awhile
[00:44:37] <Kharza-kzad> they might be really good nowadays
[00:44:52] <Kharza-kzad> I gave up coding for it though. I can't work without a debugger
[00:45:10] <freedman> Same here. I'm not sure what the state of the tools is yet.
[00:45:40] <Kharza-kzad> it's really simple to make stuff for, you just write to the screen
[00:45:52] <Kharza-kzad> there's a gcc for it as well as an arm compiler that's retail
[00:46:07] <Kharza-kzad> lots of tutorials out there
[00:46:20] <Kharza-kzad> would be hard to port exult though hehe, screen not big enough
[00:46:21] <freedman> Yes; I tried gcc from someone's site, but my Linux setup was too old.
[00:46:44] <Kharza-kzad> exult on gba would rule though
[00:46:54] <Kharza-kzad> assuming you could see the bloody screen
[00:47:21] <Kharza-kzad> gba is cool though because underground little guys can get into it
[00:47:29] <freedman> Looked good in the store. But then, my GB is an old B&W.
[00:47:38] <Kharza-kzad> one of the guys I used to work with started game titan and does gba stuff now
[00:48:00] <freedman> I've seen job ads for GBA programmers. That would be fun.
[00:48:11] <Kharza-kzad> yea if you typically work in a well lit area your ok, or outside in the sun
[00:48:20] <freedman> :-)
[00:48:22] <Kharza-kzad> I can't stand light though, I keep it pitch black most of the time
[00:48:40] <freedman> I can see where that would be a problem with the GBA.
[00:48:41] <Kharza-kzad> I see by the light of my monitors
[00:49:07] <freedman> :-) Stick to emulators, then. They >should< be capable of debugging.
[00:49:58] <Kharza-kzad> if I could get some kind of debugger working I'd probably get back into it
[00:50:20] <Kharza-kzad> the gba fit the C64's graphics fairly well
[00:50:31] <Kharza-kzad> I was copying them from a c64 emulator running bard's tale 3
[00:50:46] <Kharza-kzad> the font was 3 pixels wide! ahha they just used shades of red and blue to antialias
[00:50:51] <freedman> Seems like it could support an Ultima-style RPG or a Sierra-style adventure game.
[00:51:10] <Kharza-kzad> yea it's like a 160 by .. 200 screen I think
[00:51:22] <Kharza-kzad> or maybe 160 by 140 or something? I forget
[00:51:35] <Kharza-kzad> bout the same as the c64 but with lots more colors
[00:52:09] <freedman> Good enough for old-style games.
[00:52:38] <freedman> I generally can't stand Windows gaming, so I just play old DOS games (over and over)
[00:53:23] <Kharza-kzad> I don't mind it so much, but I can't stand windows shooters
[00:53:32] <Kharza-kzad> the interrupt latency is so bad I just can't aim
[00:53:36] <Kharza-kzad> to used to dos doom
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[00:54:13] <freedman> I just don't like the slow startup, driver problems, crashes:-), long reboots
[00:54:15] <Kharza-kzad> the infinity engine stuff is really good, like planescape torment
[00:54:39] <Kharza-kzad> this is my friend Mental, old ultima fan :D
[00:54:46] <Mental4> Hi there, I just want to lurk
[00:54:54] <freedman> Hey.
[00:55:00] <wjp> hi
[00:55:02] <Mental4> and love exult :)
[00:55:09] <freedman> :-) Thanks
[00:55:39] <freedman> I'm still wondering if we'll actually be able to make a new U7-style game.
[00:56:08] <Kharza-kzad> the last game I remember that was close to a u7 style was fairy tale adventure 2
[00:56:30] <Kharza-kzad> it was good but released early and lotsa bugs
[00:56:33] <freedman> ? Never heard of that. On PC's?
[00:56:45] <Mental4> I couldn't ever finish it due to a bug
[00:56:46] <Kharza-kzad> yea I think it was windows
[00:58:07] <Kharza-kzad> it was fun though, good gameplay
[00:58:20] <Kharza-kzad> small party of ambiguously gay brothers
[00:58:27] <freedman> By U7-style, do you mean the graphics, or the ability to use lots of items?
[00:58:33] <Kharza-kzad> I think there were 3
[00:58:50] <Kharza-kzad> graphics were very close, gameplay was probably more simple
[00:58:59] <Kharza-kzad> I'm struggling to remember the puzzles
[00:59:07] <Mental4> seamless world map and the perspective were very similar
[00:59:07] <Kharza-kzad> don't think they ever got very complex
[00:59:25] <Kharza-kzad> they had a little bit of conversation speech seems like
[00:59:37] <freedman> Too bad there are no more used-software stores around here.
[01:00:04] <Mental4> Even so you would have trouble finding it
[01:00:15] * sbx would like to see U7 style U6.
[01:00:17] <Mental4> It was some obscure publisher and the devs went out of business immediately on release
[01:00:19] <freedman> Yes.
[01:00:46] <Kharza-kzad> I loaned mine to ken demarest and he never gave it back
[01:01:07] <freedman> It would be cool to do U4 in Exult, too. But without EA's permission, it wouldn't be worth the risk.
[01:01:32] <Mental4> Is the editor robust enough to replace everything?
[01:01:38] <freedman> We've heard from KenD. Seems like he's also left the games industry.
[01:02:02] <Kharza-kzad> aye I think he works with glass eye still
[01:02:16] <freedman> Mental4: It's getting close, although you still can't start from scratch. I'll be working on it, though.
[01:02:18] <Kharza-kzad> some of my friends from eclipse are still there
[01:03:20] <Kharza-kzad> hmm just can't pull the trigger on this 100 dollar gameboy to tv thing
[01:04:00] <freedman> I'd give the emulators a try first:-)
[01:05:02] <freedman> Anyway, I'd better go.
[01:05:09] <freedman> Bye!
[01:05:13] <-- freedman has left IRC ("Leaving")
[01:05:14] <Kharza-kzad> cya man :D
[01:05:29] <Mental4> woot
[01:05:45] <sbx> :(
[01:06:06] <sbx> I kept waiting to see him here and when he comes here I have nothing to say. :P
[01:06:50] <Mental4> I should have asked about Pentagram
[01:07:04] <wjp> what about it?
[01:07:15] <Mental4> Just what it is I guess
[01:07:21] <sbx> wjp would know about that :-)
[01:07:24] <Mental4> All I've read is that it used to be a U8 map viewer
[01:07:27] <wjp> not much, yet
[01:07:31] <wjp> well, it still is
[01:07:39] <Mental4> The exult page teases about it :)
[01:08:00] <wjp> there's some vague non-substantial plans about making it more, though
[01:09:03] <Kharza-kzad> if only gbas were 320x200
[01:09:22] <sbx> Can you down-scale?
[01:09:40] <Mental4> lots of C64 games ran 160x
[01:09:41] <Kharza-kzad> hmm dunno if it would have the power to downsample
[01:10:20] <Kharza-kzad> I wish our chips could compete with strongarm
[01:10:29] <Kharza-kzad> we can powerwise but not costwise
[01:10:43] <Kharza-kzad> oh well i'd better go get some work done before the weekend
[01:10:49] * Kharza-kzad rna ofef
[01:11:20] <wjp> rna ofef?
[01:14:17] * sbx always wants to ask Kharza-kzad: "How's Linus?" :-)
[01:14:20] <sbx> but I won't
[01:15:25] <wjp> 20:44:42 <freedman> Cool. So you work with Linus?
[01:15:26] <wjp> 20:45:00 <Kharza-kzad> He's here but he's not in my group hehe.
[01:15:59] <sbx> haha wjp
[01:16:01] <sbx> that was a while ago
[01:16:03] <wjp> (quoted from 9 Jan., btw)
[01:16:22] <sbx> that is why I won't ask
[01:16:27] * sbx grins.
[01:20:41] <Kharza-kzad> hehe yea I never see him anymore
[01:42:28] <wjp> I have to go
[01:42:30] <wjp> bye
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[04:49:28] <sbx> hi
[04:49:35] <ShadwChsr> hi
[04:49:50] <ShadwChsr> Exult is awesome ;)
[04:50:01] <sbx> truly
[04:50:29] <ShadwChsr> Are you a coder?
[04:50:44] <sbx> no
[04:50:46] <sbx> i am just a fan
[04:51:53] <ShadwChsr> hmm
[05:20:17] --> V0|D has joined #exult
[05:20:26] <V0|D> hi
[05:20:43] <sbx> hi CH4R
[05:20:48] <sbx> i mean V0|D
[05:20:57] <V0|D> haha, ok :)
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[06:02:38] * Darke bows, "Hello."
[06:02:43] <V0|D> hi Darke
[06:03:11] <Darke> Hi CH4R, I mean V0|D.
[06:04:34] <sbx> ...
[06:04:40] <sbx> hi Darke
[06:04:56] <Darke> sbx: Sorry. <grin> It had to be said. And I know you already said it.
[06:05:30] <V0|D> actually, im a V0 piped to D...
[06:08:07] <V0|D> too hot, gotta get a beer...
[06:08:22] * Darke ponders what effect that will have.
[06:09:40] <V0|D> well, its not gonna type cast myself, if thats what you're thinking
[06:10:06] <sbx> o_O
[06:10:30] <V0|D> heh
[06:11:10] * Darke now has a detective theme playing in his head to a voice speaking, `I'm Null, this here's my partner Void. You were looking for a PI m'am?`
[06:11:56] <sbx> He was looking for beer. :-)
[06:12:54] <Darke> Nah. Void was looking for a beer. Null was looking for a job, and `m'am` was looking for a PI. That clear things up? <grin>
[06:13:15] <V0|D> im looking for a job too, actually
[06:16:02] * V0|D wonders if there is anything going in the Gold Coast...;)
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[06:16:56] <sbx> hi Kirben
[06:17:03] <Kirben> Hi
[06:17:08] <V0|D> hey
[06:21:42] <Darke> Hi.
[06:22:25] <Darke> V0|D: As to jobs on the Gold Coast. I'm having a hard enough time getting jobs in Brisbane, I don't think it'll be easier there. <grin>
[06:23:11] <sbx> Australia has such interesting places and place-names. :-)
[06:24:23] <Darke> sbx: Really? <grin> I just thought them kind of... umm... 'dull'. I mean, really 'Queensland'? 'Gold Coast'? 'Sunshine Coast'? 'Mount Isa'? 'New South Wales'? 'South/Western Australia'? Interesting?!?
[06:24:42] <sbx> yeah
[06:24:45] <V0|D> what about 'bald knob'?
[06:24:54] * sbx boggles.
[06:24:58] <sbx> exactly
[06:25:16] <Darke> 'Wagga Wagga'? Apparently a name most .usanians can't pronounce. <grin>
[06:25:17] <V0|D> 'great dividing range'
[06:25:28] <Darke> That one is just so... creative!
[06:25:52] <sbx> Yeah I'm a .usanian.
[06:25:53] <V0|D> all australian places start with 'great' and all american places start with 'grand'...i figure
[06:26:04] <sbx> Grand Union Station #245
[06:26:06] <sbx> ?
[06:26:30] <V0|D> grand canyon
[06:26:38] <V0|D> hehe
[06:27:05] <sbx> "Aus-tral-ia"?
[06:27:09] <sbx> neat
[06:27:16] <V0|D> hahaha
[06:28:01] <V0|D> we have texas too
[06:30:13] <Darke> Yep. My mother was born in Texas. <grin>
[06:31:22] <Darke> Then you have 'Burketown', resulting in phrases like 'Out back of Burke'. Meaning a long, long way out in the bush, IIRC. <grin>
[06:31:34] <V0|D> ahaha
[06:31:37] <sbx> Don't Australians have to vote in elections?
[06:31:58] <V0|D> the way it should be
[06:32:08] <V0|D> yes
[06:33:35] <sbx> Well, many of your names are purely "functional" but a lot of them are unique and strange so I like em. :)
[06:33:50] <V0|D> hmmmm....lets think of more :)
[06:35:30] * sbx falls asleep.
[06:35:33] <V0|D> there's a 'lamington national park'....mmmmm...lamingtons...
[06:35:46] <V0|D> i wonder if they grow on trees there
[06:37:14] * Darke IIRC, has been there, and no they don't.
[06:37:42] <V0|D> i know someone who works there, at a resort. nice place?
[06:37:57] <Darke> AFAICT, they grow in baking trays, and in the fridge in kitchens, or at least they do when I make them. <grin>
[06:38:15] <V0|D> lol
[06:38:20] <sbx> whats a lamington?
[06:38:20] <Darke> Yes, a very nice place when I was there... quite a few years ago now.
[06:38:28] <V0|D> YES, i know sbx would ask!!
[06:38:39] <V0|D> know = knew
[06:39:10] <Darke> A square of vanilla cake, sometimes split down the middle with jam in it. Covered in a chocolate 'icing', then covered with coconut. Again coconut optional.
[06:39:34] * sbx drools.
[06:39:40] <sbx> excuse me
[06:39:44] <sbx> They named a park after these?
[06:40:05] <V0|D> according to the macquarie dictionary:
[06:40:41] <V0|D> the cakes were named after Baron Lamington, governer of queensland 1895-1901
[06:40:53] <V0|D> and the national park is in qld
[06:41:32] <sbx> makes sense
[06:41:35] <V0|D> shall we package some and ship them up to sbx?
[06:41:48] <V0|D> ](be a bit stale tho :( )
[06:43:27] <Darke> More then a bit. We're better off giving him a recipe. After all, there is only one thing you actually _need_ to make in it, the chocolate icing. It can't be that difficult. <grin>
[06:43:46] <sbx> hmm
[06:43:48] <V0|D> true
[06:43:58] * sbx frosted a chocolate cake once.
[06:44:06] <V0|D> then you're set!
[07:32:11] <V0|D> did i spell governor wrong?
[07:33:41] <sbx> "Shine yer shoes for a nickel eh govena?"
[07:33:54] <V0|D> HAHAHA
[07:34:31] <sbx> that seems more British than Australian
[07:34:40] <V0|D> yeh, you're right
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[11:20:59] <sbx> Darke: Everyone always leaves us. :-(
[11:29:29] * Darke noticed. <grin>
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[12:11:55] <Colourless> hello
[12:12:01] * Darke bows, "Hi!"
[12:13:52] <Colourless> planning on getting everything to break exult are you by suggesting we use common in exult are you :-)
[12:17:40] <Darke> Hey, I'm only 'seconding' what Max said. <grin>
[12:18:09] <^miguel^-> What mean "we use common in exult"?
[12:18:12] * Darke considers it also adds the ability, for him to break both exult _and_ pentagram on win32... <evilgiggle>
[12:18:52] <Colourless> yeah well, I am to break the midi in both exult and pentagram on all platforms BUT win32 :-)
[12:20:22] <sbx> ^miguel^-: common cvs trees
[12:20:23] <sbx> source trees
[12:21:08] * Darke points out, that he doesn't actually play exult with music and/or sound...
[12:21:26] <sbx> COLOURLESS_HATES_THE_BG_SFX
[12:24:01] <sbx> He _REALLY_ hates it in fact. :-)
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[12:24:23] <Cless> yes I made that define for a VERY good reason... guess what it is?
[12:24:32] <Darke> sbx: So it's actually COLOURLESS_REALLY_HATES_THE_BG_SFX ?
[12:25:01] <sbx> yeah
[12:25:14] <sbx> Cless: because you really hate the sfx?
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[12:27:07] <olaf> ha ha!
[12:27:48] <sbx> ...
[12:28:01] <olaf> hi sbx
[12:28:17] * sbx is slightly amused. :-)
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[12:28:37] <Colourless> that is NOT me!
[12:28:39] * olaf is not amused at the slightest
[12:28:46] <olaf> har har
[12:28:50] <olaf> yes it is :)
[12:28:59] <olaf> noooooo
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[12:29:00] * Darke snickers.
[12:29:06] <-- olaf was kicked from #exult by Colourless (Colourless)
[12:29:08] <sbx> hi Fingolfin
[12:29:10] <Colourless> hi
[12:29:10] <sbx> heh
[12:29:15] * sbx falls asleep. :)
[12:29:20] <Darke> Hi Fingolfin.
[12:29:26] <Fingolfin> yo
[12:29:28] <Fingolfin> hu
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[12:29:38] <Fingolfin> was he kicked to protect me? :)
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[12:29:42] <Fingolfin> or to protect him from me?
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[12:29:52] <Fingolfin> or for completly other reasons?`:)
[12:29:53] * olaf come back from his watery grave
[12:29:59] <Colourless> completely other reasons
[12:30:16] <olaf> don't fear me guys :)
[12:30:31] <Colourless> p.s. Olaf doesn't even play exult
[12:30:36] <Fingolfin> ugh
[12:30:43] <Fingolfin> that is already one good reason, isn't it?
[12:30:49] <Darke> Isn't that normally `Don't fear the Reaper.` rather then `Don't fear the Olaf`?
[12:30:52] <olaf> isn't exult a type of shot?
[12:31:28] <olaf> can i have ops?
[12:31:37] <olaf> or even +v?
[12:31:51] --- Colourless gives channel operator status to exultbot
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[12:31:59] --- Colourless gives channel operator status to sbx
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[12:32:05] <olaf> oh c'mon!
[12:32:19] --- Colourless takes channel operator status from Colourless
[12:32:22] <olaf> hahahaha
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[12:32:39] --- Colourless takes channel operator status from Mental4
[12:32:39] --- Colourless takes channel operator status from sbx
[12:32:39] --- Colourless takes channel operator status from ^miguel^-
[12:32:43] --- Colourless takes channel operator status from exultbot
[12:32:43] --- Colourless takes channel operator status from matto
[12:33:27] * Darke wonders what evil olaf intends upon releasing when he has ops.
[12:33:48] <olaf> i mean no harm
[12:33:56] <Colourless> to anyone but me, i think :-)
[12:35:04] * olaf believes he would make a great moderator
[12:35:39] <Darke> olaf: The nuclear reactor type?
[12:35:55] <olaf> uh..
[12:36:14] * Colourless looks... uh no he wouldn't
[12:36:20] <olaf> you could try though
[12:37:01] <olaf> so did you lads play ultima 9? i take it you all did
[12:37:10] <Darke> olaf: That would require me to have a nuclear reactor at paw. Which, unfortunately, I don't. So this test will have to wait until another time. <grin>
[12:37:41] * Darke played ohh... about 10 minutes of it, until it crashed and he didn't bother playing it again.
[12:38:05] <Fingolfin> whatever happend to that old kick rule that means a kickban for at least a day to anybody who openly asks for op? :)
[12:38:50] <olaf> now now
[12:39:00] <Colourless> well at the moment that 'would' bad me too wouldn't it?
[12:39:30] <olaf> i have evidence of what happened to Molly in U9! (she's the chick who kept dissapearing)
[12:40:44] <olaf> i also got some screenies of some arrows i fired that ended up being huge, like 5 times as big as a sea serpent
[12:42:21] * Darke blinkblinks.
[12:42:39] <olaf> and i DID play Exult, version 0.4
[12:43:22] * olaf walks over to Darke
[12:43:30] <olaf> "name, job, bye"
[12:45:03] <Darke> "Darke", "Wandering tinker and occasional bard.", "<bow>"
[12:45:09] <Colourless> ?name
[12:45:09] <exultbot> Greetings Avatar. I am called Exultbot.
[12:45:12] <Colourless> ?job
[12:45:12] <exultbot> My job is to write down everything you say.
[12:45:13] <Colourless> ?bye
[12:45:13] <exultbot> Goodbye, Avatar.
[12:45:41] <olaf> "i've never talked to a bot before"
[12:45:52] <olaf> ?help
[12:45:58] <olaf> oooh
[12:46:18] <olaf> ?ops
[12:46:25] <olaf> dang
[12:48:09] <olaf> who here likes Diablo 2?
[12:48:22] * Darke waves a paw.
[12:48:41] <Colourless> well, how do YOU play it?
[12:48:45] <olaf> you playing online?
[12:49:16] <Darke> No. Only Single player with Mods. I got sick of 'normal' D2 a while ago. <grin>
[12:49:21] <olaf> it's better than this US$40/month Everquest thing i just read about
[12:49:28] <olaf> ahh
[12:49:33] * Darke agrees.
[12:49:41] <olaf> i play on USwest
[12:50:23] <olaf> i think it's pretty funny actually, $40, pfffft
[12:51:08] <^miguel^-> Question: Do Exult use DTD for XML? What XML parser do exult use?
[12:51:14] <olaf> what class do you play?
[12:51:59] <Darke> olaf: Pretty much. I don't think I'd pay AU$20 for a MMORPG at the moment, let alone that. Sorceress, Amazon and Assassin. The only three classes I can tolerate playing without going insane. <grin>
[12:52:31] <Darke> miguel: One written by Dancer, IIRC, and modified by myself at the moment. It's in conf/.
[12:53:14] <^miguel^-> Darke: And do it use DTD for validate input?
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[12:53:17] <olaf> Darke: sweet, the sorc is pretty funky, im playing Nec. got sick of playing Barb. Pally is just gay
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[12:53:30] <olaf> he's back :)
[12:54:01] <Darke> miguel: Not as far as I know.
[12:54:30] <Darke> miguel: It workes on the principal, if it can read it, it's 'correct'. <grin>
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[12:56:23] <olaf> hmmm
[12:56:40] <olaf> seems the olaf is stronger than the dragon tonight :)
[12:57:46] * Darke grins. Looks like it.
[12:59:01] * olaf senses his return.....
[13:00:34] * olaf can feel the wake in the ethereal
[13:01:49] * Darke is vaguely unimpressed that olaf can feel Colourless' return. <grin>
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[13:02:10] <olaf> ha
[13:02:12] <Colourless> yay
[13:02:47] <olaf> i'm unimpressed with sygate actually
[13:03:47] <olaf> GIVE ME OPS!
[13:03:51] <Colourless> no!
[13:03:56] * Darke doesn't remember the last time is was impressed with sygate.
[13:04:07] --- Colourless gives channel operator status to olaf
[13:04:13] <olaf> seeya guys........
[13:04:17] <olaf> SAY YOUR PRAYERS!
[13:04:23] <-- olaf was kicked from #exult by olaf (olaf)
[13:04:35] <Colourless> cya
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[13:05:21] --> olaf has joined #exult
[13:05:24] <olaf> saw that
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[13:28:02] <wjp> hi
[13:28:33] <Darke> Hi.
[13:31:46] <Fingolfin> yo willem
[13:34:44] <wjp> animations in display look kind of cool, btw :-)
[13:34:50] <wjp> give a nice surreal effect :-)
[13:35:42] <Fingolfin> heheh
[13:36:03] <Fingolfin> btw, you know what caused the crash that prevented me from checking in that one earlier? :)
[13:36:16] <Fingolfin> I *cough* didn't init *cough* Shape *sh to anything
[13:36:24] <wjp> oops :-)
[13:36:31] <Fingolfin> to used to getting warnings "warning: variable may not be initialies"
[13:36:42] <Fingolfin> for some reasons I don't get those despite -Wall
[13:36:59] <wjp> you may need a -O for that
[13:36:59] <Fingolfin> I wonder if I should try to make an interim OS X release
[13:37:28] <Darke> -W also perhaps. I noticed that was missing in the makefiles a while back.
[13:40:23] <Fingolfin> what would -W do ? hu?
[13:42:04] <Darke> Want me to cut&paste from the info file? It does half a dozen things, but doesn't appear to warn for that particular instance.
[13:49:02] <wjp> info section for -Wuninitialized just says you need -O
[13:57:57] <Fingolfin> gotta go, cya later
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[14:08:22] <wjp> brb; rebooting
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[14:23:58] <Darke> Hello again.
[14:30:16] <wjp> I'll brb again...
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[14:37:26] <wjp> finally... audio distortion is gone
[14:37:41] <wjp> (took some fiddling with BIOS settings, hence the reboots)
[14:38:07] * Darke nods. That indeed, does explain the reboots. <grin>
[14:58:32] * Darke bows, "Must go. Goodnight all."
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[20:44:53] <wjp> hi again
[21:02:00] <Fingolfin> yo
[21:19:09] <wjp> btw, I noticed something strange earlier today
[21:19:26] <wjp> when I updated tools/intrinsics.h, tools/disasm wasn't rebuild
[21:23:54] <Fingolfin> indeed? hmm
[21:24:07] * Fingolfin tries
[21:24:39] <Fingolfin> weird
[21:24:40] * wjp found 4 whole intrinsics today
[21:24:45] <Fingolfin> cool
[21:24:48] <wjp> (only about 200 to go...)
[21:24:50] <Fingolfin> which? :)
[21:25:00] * Fingolfin goes looking at the debug output of make
[21:25:01] <wjp> set_shape, set_frame, get_quality, game_time
[21:25:02] <Fingolfin> hehe
[21:25:11] <Fingolfin> neat
[21:25:21] <wjp> (the game_time one also pointed me to the div and mod opcodes)
[21:26:45] <Fingolfin> when I touch viewer/display.cc, that works. but touching Shape.h doesn't. Conclusion: something is wrong with the .d files, maybe they don't get included properly?
[21:26:56] <Fingolfin> how did you figure game_time ?
[21:27:14] <wjp> it's called (indirectly) in the usecode function for the clock
[21:27:34] <wjp> and the return value is taken mod 24 quite often :-)
[21:29:47] <Fingolfin> hehe
[21:29:54] * Fingolfin found the problem with the Makefile and will fix it now
[21:30:08] <Fingolfin> stupid me, I even looked at that code and wondered: oh cool, why does that work?
[21:30:11] <Fingolfin> answer: it doesn't :)
[21:30:17] <wjp> hehe
[21:30:27] <wjp> what code is the problem?
[21:37:02] <Fingolfin> include $(LOBJ:%.o=$(DEPDIR)/%.d)
[21:37:16] <Fingolfin> -> that doesn't work, obviously
[21:37:37] * wjp isn't that at home in gmake's syntax for $( things
[21:37:40] <Fingolfin> viewer/Shape.o becomes .deps/viewer/Shape.d, and not viewer/.deps/Shape.d
[21:38:03] <wjp> ok, that makes sense
[21:38:09] <Fingolfin> yeah
[21:38:16] <Fingolfin> now I need to come up with a way to do it correct
[21:39:20] <Fingolfin> hm, should be doable using foreach
[21:39:20] <wjp> use the $(dir and $(notdir commands, maybe?
[21:39:37] * wjp nods
[21:47:46] <Fingolfin> or I just use wildcard, hehe
[21:48:07] <Fingolfin> in fact I think that is superior
[21:49:28] <Fingolfin> hrm, but in either case the effect is the same: it still doesn't work
[21:49:29] <Fingolfin> weird
[21:51:14] <Fingolfin> oh, I think I see what is going wrong
[21:51:46] <Fingolfin> % less viewer/.deps/Shape.d
[21:51:46] <Fingolfin> Shape.o: viewer/Shape.cc viewer/Shape.h viewer/ShapeManager.h
[21:51:53] <Fingolfin> ->that should be viewer/Shape.o
[21:51:54] <Fingolfin> sigh
[21:52:10] <wjp> ah! of course
[21:52:21] <Fingolfin> hmpf, now how to fix that
[21:52:33] <Fingolfin> I could try to prepend each .d file with the correct rule of course, but that feels a bit icky
[21:52:43] <Fingolfin> err, s/rule/prefix/
[21:52:52] <Fingolfin> like prepending $(LPATH)/
[21:55:19] * wjp found the get_str/get_int/get_health/get_mana/set_health/set_mana intrinsics
[21:56:12] <wjp> ...and the MUL and GE opcodes
[21:58:19] <wjp> (from the usecode for potions)
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[21:58:35] <wjp> hi
[21:59:05] <^miguel^-> hi
[22:09:52] <Fingolfin> wjp: coolio :)
[22:09:56] <Fingolfin> hi ^miguel^-
[22:18:40] <Fingolfin> wjp: so what I do now is ugly: I put the rule output of cc into a .d2 file now, then echo $(LPATH)/ into the .d file, finally concat the .d2 file to the .d file
[22:18:46] <Fingolfin> ugly but seems to work, hrm
[22:18:59] <wjp> automake has a similar hack
[22:19:09] <Fingolfin> hmpf
[22:19:12] <wjp> (different purpose, though)
[22:19:15] <Fingolfin> but I want to be nicer :)
[22:22:53] <Fingolfin> ugly fix now in CVS
[22:51:48] <Fingolfin> wjp: you figured the new intrinsics partly by looking at the usecode for potions, right? i.e. a health potion should change healt etc.
[22:52:17] * wjp nods
[22:53:51] <Fingolfin> btw, I have this old hints book for U8, it contains a list of maps and NPCs; we have all the maps, but not all NPCs
[22:54:02] <Fingolfin> although I wonder how useful the missing NPCs :)
[22:54:07] <wjp> I have the hintbook, too
[22:54:12] <Fingolfin> s/ :)/are :)/
[22:54:25] <Fingolfin> I am not sure if this is a "official" one, though
[22:54:59] * wjp has the official one
[22:55:52] <Fingolfin> btw, what about invisibilty/poison potions?
[22:56:10] <wjp> they call other functions. I didn't 'recurse' into those
[22:57:19] <Fingolfin> ok
[23:04:58] <wjp> sheesh... finding all intrinsics will take an incredible amount of time
[23:11:32] <Fingolfin> how was it done for U7? the same like now, i.e. some thinking (effects of potions/weapongs/armor etc.) and trial&error?
[23:11:40] <Fingolfin> btw, the fixed makefile is working for you I hope?
[23:11:55] <wjp> don't know. I didn't have anything to do with the initial decoding of U7's usecode
[23:12:02] <wjp> yes, works like a charm. Thanks
[23:17:01] <wjp> I should go to bed
[23:17:04] <wjp> night
[23:17:10] <^miguel^-> byew
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