#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 May 2003 (GMT)

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[09:20:29] <`daniel> SERVUS - serve us
[09:27:00] <`daniel> will you serve us?
[09:35:48] <servus> perhaps, what needs serving?
[09:36:00] <`daniel> umm
[09:36:02] <`daniel> rpgness
[09:36:10] <`daniel> I lack a descent rpg
[09:36:22] <servus> what am i supposed to do about that? ;)
[09:36:45] <servus> try savage empire.
[09:38:09] <`daniel> hrrm
[09:38:11] <`daniel> not good enough
[09:38:21] <`daniel> ive played savage empire enough
[09:38:42] <`daniel> I cheated in finishing the game :P
[09:38:53] <`daniel> instead of uniting the tribes
[09:39:11] <`daniel> I sent that gold guy down into the hole and made him kill the queen ant
[09:39:21] <`daniel> cause he cant get hurt
[09:39:37] <`daniel> at the time it wasnt really a cheat, i just utilised what i had
[09:47:49] <servus> tsk tsk :-p
[09:48:18] <servus> hmm Arx Fatalis is alright
[09:48:23] <servus> ever play Planescape Torment?
[10:20:59] --- DarkeZzz is now known as Darke
[10:21:06] * Darke suggests Ultima 8. *grin*
[10:21:23] * Darke quickly escapes, stage left!
[10:24:48] <`daniel> back
[10:24:55] <`daniel> planescape torment??
[10:24:57] <`daniel> have I ever!
[10:25:11] <`daniel> that was one of the most memorable rpg's i've played in my life
[10:25:19] <`daniel> oh how i wish they made games like that again
[10:26:29] <`daniel> Darke, ultima 8 won't be an option until pentagram is playable :P
[10:29:03] <Darke> Ah well, you'll just have to be patient then. *grin*
[10:29:15] <Darke> Spam subject: "Transform your rod into a monster". Wasn't that a magical item in AD&D? *ponder*
[10:30:18] * `daniel wonders how they could loose the source code for ultima 7-8
[10:31:29] <`daniel> is the task of making pentagram going to take longer than exult?
[10:32:01] <Darke> Easy. How difficult is it for you to loose something that's completely unimportant to you? *grin*
[10:32:48] <`daniel> hrrm
[10:32:59] <`daniel> I would value anything of that size important
[10:34:17] <Darke> Depends. *grin* We've got our sights higher then exult from the beginning, and we're doing most of the base work to do that first, rather then grafting it on later. So I think it'll take less time to do the internal stuff (getting the game playable) since we know how do to it 'right', but it'll probably take as long as exult to get it to the 'finished' point since we're doing lots of stuff not dedicated to get the game working, along the way.
[10:35:38] <`daniel> cool
[10:35:59] <`daniel> is there anywhere you can donate to the exult team?
[10:36:00] <servus> strange, i wasnt seeing the typing... Blor Ductosnore must skupp me, mizfunkionz
[10:36:08] <Darke> But it's not worth anything, is it? You can't sell it when you're selling the game. A couple of years after the game's been published, you can't really sell it either, since it's obsolete. And from the companies perspective, the source code only exists to produce the binary which they sell. Thus the binary is worth something, but the source has no intrinsic value one it's been used to create the binary.
[10:36:58] <servus> Darke; However, most people are packrats to some degree... And putting in a great deal of effort into anything creates a strong sense of attachment.
[10:37:27] <Darke> (donate) Nope. IIRC we came to the conclusion before that us getting money for this put us on shaky legal ground, so we don't have any way of accepting them. I think the discussion is in the forum somewhere.
[10:37:51] <`daniel> k
[10:37:57] <Darke> servus: Sure. I'm sure that most of the developers have a copy of the source lying around. But I'm pretty sure that EA/Origin would have lost it.
[10:38:03] <`daniel> dont worry, if you feel uncomfortable i won't donate.
[10:38:15] <servus> donate me a tuna fish sandwich
[10:38:23] <`daniel> EA is evil, i wouldn't donate to them
[10:38:28] <servus> catch a tiger then stuff it... no, i couldnt eat another bite, really! :-)
[10:38:57] <Darke> It's more useful if you donate your time to bugfix or code, or report and search for bugs, or help document, or... *grin*
[10:39:12] <`daniel> ill donate my fecses to EA
[10:39:43] <servus> oh did you hear that richard garriot got his own team to start planning an ultima X on the upcoming half-life 2 engine?
[10:40:07] <`daniel> hrrm
[10:40:12] <`daniel> wonder if that is a rumour
[10:40:22] <`daniel> i thought he was working on some MMORPG
[10:40:23] <servus> what's that you say? april 1 is come and gone? oh, nuts! :-)
[10:41:10] <servus> it is a pity though... too bad richard garriot caved into EA's demands... the guys filthy rich.. he has what is referred to as "fuck you money"; that means that he has enough money to say "fuck you" to his employer :-p
[10:41:14] * `daniel hopes the halflife team get off their arses and port the 2nd game to linux & Mac OSX
[10:41:34] <`daniel> lol
[10:41:44] * Darke would give you the same odds for that happening, as he would give you the odds for EA releasing the ultima sourcecode to the relevant groups. *grin*
[10:42:05] <servus> ultima 1 sourcecode is open ^.^
[10:42:11] <`daniel> :P
[10:42:18] <servus> Darke, have you read Watership Down?
[10:42:34] <`daniel> but dark, quake 2 has a native port for linux and halflife is taken from the quake 2 engine
[10:42:35] <servus> its all about talking bunnies, you might like it.
[10:43:07] <Darke> daniel: Was talking about servus' garriot/ultimaX theory. *grin*
[10:43:20] * Darke has, indeed, read Watership Down. *grin*
[10:43:23] <`daniel> ahh okay
[10:43:27] <servus> not so much a theory as random copy-protection-failed speaking :-)
[10:43:47] <`daniel> Darke, have you got a hotkey for --> *grin* ?
[10:43:56] <servus> next time someone gets confused by what youre saying, just simply state, "I'm sorry, you must've failed copy protection."
[10:44:09] <`daniel> lol
[10:44:23] <Darke> daniel: Nope. I just type quick. *grin*
[10:44:32] <servus> Cowboy Neal is my usecode gump.
[10:44:51] <`daniel> ehehe
[10:45:46] <servus> what does gump stand for, anyways?
[10:46:21] <`daniel> general unused multicoloured pixel
[10:47:15] <Darke> Generic User Menu Panel?
[10:47:45] <servus> i believe neither of you now :-)
[10:48:08] <servus> you've cancelled each other out -- this is john nash's sociological theory
[10:48:27] <servus> GUMP Graphical User Menu Pop-Up according to acronymfinder.cmo :-)
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[10:49:38] <servus> h'lo
[10:50:03] <Darke> Greetings.
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[13:06:44] <kayodemon> !list
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[13:11:04] <Darke> Hmm...
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[13:11:45] <Colourless> hi
[13:12:00] <Darke> Hi.
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[17:36:55] <wjp> hi
[17:36:57] <wjp> well, that was the last of the study-related deadlines for now :-)
[17:37:06] <Colourless> hi
[17:37:37] <Colourless> in 'theory' i 'should' now be able actually display the world in pentagram :-)
[17:37:46] <wjp> yay!
[17:38:00] <Colourless> i have sort of mostly finished the item sorter
[17:38:04] <Colourless> haven't tested it though
[17:38:33] <Colourless> still need to add support for item 'tracing' (used for mouse click detection)
[17:38:33] <wjp> committable? :-)
[17:39:04] <Colourless> theoretically yes the code is committable. just let me test first ok :-)
[17:39:12] <wjp> k :-)
[17:39:19] <wjp> if you insist :-)
[17:39:38] <Colourless> i'll probably for now, commit the code (once i've tested it) and make the background of the screen the world and paint the console above it :-)
[17:39:54] <wjp> sounds good
[17:41:17] <Colourless> for the moment, the item sorter object is going to be shoved somewhere into the Application class, BUT that is not where it's supposed to actually be.
[17:41:46] <wjp> mapgump?
[17:42:01] <Colourless> yep
[17:42:07] <wjp> hm, forum down?
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[17:55:14] <wjp> seems to work now
[17:55:31] <Colourless> everything was down
[18:03:08] <Colourless> call this an odd question, but why is the 'objects' vector made up of Objects not Items?
[18:03:52] <Colourless> this is in the World class btw
[18:04:45] <wjp> hm, feel free to change it into items
[18:04:56] <Colourless> but that could be because i'm missing something...
[18:04:58] <wjp> but where would we store non-item objects?
[18:05:17] <Colourless> we store Items in the CurrentMap class
[18:10:57] <wjp> we kind of need a general lookup table for all Objects
[18:11:03] <wjp> but maybe World wouldn't be the best place for it
[18:41:54] <Colourless> things 'sort of' work
[18:44:14] <wjp> cool :-)
[19:17:14] <Colourless> brb
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[19:28:39] <Colourless> hmm, for some annoying reason, the display list isn't being sorted...
[19:29:35] <Colourless> and the reason appears to be obvious.... forgot to write a continue;
[19:29:46] <Colourless> so things were working exactly opposite to how i wanted
[19:30:32] <wjp> :-)
[19:33:55] <Colourless> of course now there is something seriously wrong somewhere else... i'm getting a infinitely resursive display list being generated... i think
[19:56:03] <wjp> hm, that doesn't sound too good
[19:58:33] <Colourless> hmm, well, in theory it shouldn't matter...
[19:58:55] <Colourless> the old code ignored them if they occured (easy to detect)
[19:59:19] <Colourless> things of course are just not being painted properly
[19:59:37] <wjp> occasional glitches or really wrong?
[19:59:56] <Colourless> really wrong
[20:02:16] <Colourless> i think i should probably re-examine my code after i get up
[20:02:23] <Colourless> getting too tired to think straight
[20:02:52] <Colourless> it's going to be something stupid, since i have made a number of stupid error this evening
[20:02:53] <wjp> hm, 5:30am? :-)
[20:03:00] <Colourless> yeah
[20:05:09] <Colourless> time for me to go
[20:05:10] <Colourless> cya
[20:05:15] <wjp> night
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[23:41:05] <Dominus> hey ho
[23:41:07] <Dominus> late comers are the best ones
[23:41:18] <Dominus> anyone know much about switzerland?
[23:46:03] <Dominus> I have to assemble a PC for someone living in switzerland and I'm wondering if just their electric plug is different to germany or if their electric currency is different as well...
[23:51:52] <Dominus> got it: 230 V, 50 Hz