#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Sep 2003 (GMT)

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[07:34:19] --- Topic for #exult is: http://exult.sf.net/
[07:34:19] --- Topic for #exult set by wjp at Wed Aug 20 21:37:19 2003
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[11:44:11] <Colourless> hi
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[11:53:22] <h30r> hi
[11:54:49] <h30r> I'm trying to compile exult, it seems to compile fine but I have a line like this: 'od: illegal option -- x'
[11:54:57] <h30r> is it so important to compile exult?
[11:56:03] <DarkeZzz> *blink* Erm... what compiler/os/version of exult?
[11:56:17] <h30r> the version of exult is the latest
[11:56:30] <h30r> and the compiler is...
[11:56:59] <h30r> g++ 2.95.3
[11:57:40] <h30r> what is supposed to do the 'od' command?
[11:58:14] <DarkeZzz> cvs or code from the archive on our webpage? And if from the webpage, the .tar.gz of the beta2? or the cvs snapshot?
[11:58:25] <h30r> I receive the 'od: illegal option --x' after the building of each object
[11:58:49] <h30r> ok, I'll see what file I've downloaded
[11:59:58] <DarkeZzz> Hrm... that's a rather old version of gcc. Anyone know if any of the dev team still compiles with it?
[12:00:01] <h30r> exult-1.1beta2.tar.gz
[12:00:25] * DarkeZzz earscratches. We're dumping something to octal?
[12:00:40] <DarkeZzz> What's the command line that gives that error?
[12:00:42] <h30r> actually It still compiling with no problems
[12:00:55] <wjp> "od"?
[12:00:57] <h30r> the only 'problem' is what I mentioned
[12:01:00] <h30r> yes
[12:01:05] <h30r> the 'od' command
[12:01:07] <DarkeZzz> od - dump files in octal and other formats
[12:01:11] <wjp> yes...
[12:01:20] <h30r> is a BIG problem?
[12:01:22] <wjp> peculiar
[12:01:33] <wjp> I have no idea why it would want to use od...
[12:01:49] <h30r> wow
[12:01:54] <wjp> which automake/autoconf/libtool do you have?
[12:02:11] <h30r> what flag to know the version?
[12:02:53] <DarkeZzz> autoconf --version
[12:04:09] <h30r> haha
[12:04:20] <h30r> autoconf: not found !?
[12:04:54] <Colourless> what os???
[12:04:57] <DarkeZzz> What about: libtool --version
[12:05:20] <h30r> :p libtool: not found
[12:05:48] <h30r> well, I first must say that I'm tring to compile exult under QNX
[12:06:07] <Colourless> you... expect support?
[12:06:09] <Colourless> :-)
[12:06:18] <h30r> why not?
[12:06:38] <h30r> is there a Zaurus binary and a BeOS binary too
[12:06:53] <Colourless> look at the date of the BeOS binary
[12:06:54] <h30r> whay not to compile it under other platforms?
[12:07:00] <Colourless> it's very old
[12:07:06] <Colourless> and the Z uses linux
[12:07:22] <h30r> yes, but nobody has a Zaurus
[12:07:56] <DarkeZzz> We don't compile it because we don't have anyone who has a machine to run it on. But by all means try to compile it, if there's a valid sdl for it, it might actually work. *grin*
[12:08:25] <Colourless> but be warned, you may require some gcc 3.x version to compile exult
[12:08:38] <h30r> ok, then, what if I compile exult under QNX? Will you post some message about it?
[12:08:43] <Colourless> sure
[12:09:01] <h30r> and my name ? :p
[12:09:40] <h30r> I would be the first one to compile exult on QNX!?
[12:10:01] <Colourless> if you don't have autoconf/automake you will probably need to write a makefile yourself
[12:10:01] <DarkeZzz> Why not? We need someone to point the QNX support requests to. *grin*
[12:10:33] <h30r> hehe
[12:10:51] <h30r> well, it would be interesting
[12:11:22] <DarkeZzz> You can probably rewrite the makefile.mingw, it's a fairly simple makefile, with just a few windows specifics.
[12:11:37] <Colourless> actually working from makefile.be would probably be better
[12:11:50] <Colourless> it's got less 'stuff' in it, and no windows stuff either :-)
[12:12:08] <DarkeZzz> Yeah, but by the looks of it, it's rather out of date.
[12:12:21] <Colourless> that.... would probably be true
[12:12:39] <Colourless> ha, the morphos makefile has even less stuff in it :-)
[12:12:43] <h30r> ok, I could try to do some of that
[12:13:18] <Colourless> but, the mingw makefile will compile exult in windows using gcc 3.2 iirc
[12:13:23] <DarkeZzz> Colourless: Though that, I think, is 1.0 current, isn't it? Probably only just has exult, no tools or exult-studio.
[12:13:37] <h30r> just curious, can you tell me how much lines exult has?
[12:14:05] <DarkeZzz> Lines of what? Code?
[12:14:10] <h30r> yes
[12:14:23] <Colourless> DarkeZzz: no idea. not much would need to be done though really if the morphos makefile wont work.
[12:14:45] <Colourless> it's pretty generic, and unless new directories have been added to the exult source tree, it probably should still work
[12:15:22] <DarkeZzz> A quick find/cat/wc says around 150,000 lines.
[12:15:24] <Colourless> of course, the sdl paths need changes, and the midi driver wont work, but those are simple to change
[12:15:35] <Colourless> DarkeZzz: now check pentagram :-)
[12:15:51] <h30r> 150.000!
[12:16:29] <Colourless> probably 100,000 of those are in gamewin.cc... or at least, they once were :-)
[12:16:32] <Colourless> ok maybe not :-)
[12:16:32] <DarkeZzz> 65,000 or so, about the same amount in the headers, but much less in the .cpp files.
[12:16:48] * DarkeZzz laughs!
[12:17:07] <DarkeZzz> This includes all copyright notices, blank lines, etc, so it's only just a rough guess. *grin*
[12:17:27] <h30r> do you still making new features for exult?
[12:18:15] <Colourless> exult coding methodology: if it doesn't fit somewhere, put it in gamewin.... if you can't decide where to put it, put it in gamewin... if you can't be bothered putting it anywhere, put it in GAMEWIN! :-)
[12:19:08] <wjp> h30r: I already compiled exult on QNX; sorry :-)
[12:19:17] <h30r> oohhh
[12:19:25] <wjp> (long time ago, though)
[12:19:36] <h30r> oohh
[12:19:46] <h30r> can you demostrate it?
[12:20:05] <wjp> no :-)
[12:20:18] <h30r> :p
[12:20:44] <DarkeZzz> Colourless: So I've got this code that concatinates strings... does it go in gamewin too? *grin*
[12:22:07] <h30r> aren't you interested in doing exult online or something like that? Is it the cause of not to doing that the 65000 lines?
[12:22:27] <Colourless> DarkeZzz: hmmm, yes
[12:22:40] <Colourless> better to put it in gamewin, if you are not sure
[12:22:58] <Colourless> if you have to ask, put it in gamewin :-)
[12:23:17] * DarkeZzz puts Colourless into gamewin too then.
[12:23:46] <Colourless> ok, things are much better now.
[12:25:08] <Colourless> but gamewin.h is still over 500 lines
[12:26:23] <DarkeZzz> Yup. Down to a measly 2800 lines, a shadow of it's former glory. *grin*
[12:28:16] <DarkeZzz> The largest file in pentagram is currently the lexer at 2900 lines of autogenerated content. *grin* Next closest are UCMachine.cpp and Item.cpp, both with around 2300 lines.
[12:28:52] <Colourless> Item.cpp though has a good reason for being so huge
[12:29:17] <Colourless> and ucmachine too... due to one massive switch statement :-)
[12:29:58] <h30r> was the ultima 7 game coded in C ?
[12:30:08] <Colourless> C++
[12:30:26] <h30r> what compiler?
[12:30:44] <Colourless> Turbo C++ 3
[12:31:12] <h30r> and what about the graphics library?
[12:31:25] <Colourless> probably assembler
[12:31:43] <h30r> :S
[12:31:44] <DarkeZzz> And no doubt written from scratch.
[12:32:19] <h30r> exult was writter from scratch, isn't it?
[12:32:27] <h30r> written
[12:32:33] <Colourless> there is no asm in exult, but we have some in pentagram :-)
[12:33:09] <Colourless> some aspects of exult are borrowed from other places, but by far the majority of the code was written from scratch
[12:36:25] <DarkeZzz> Of course the asm in pentagram probably gives us a *whole* one frame per second extra speed, so whether it's worth it is an entirely different arguement. *grin*
[12:36:40] <Colourless> hey, it has no drawbacks!
[12:36:52] <Colourless> plus, it makes us 1337
[12:36:58] <wjp> it's faster and we got to laugh at gcc's inline asm syntax :-)
[12:37:21] <Colourless> of course, in release pentagram, i will probably disable that function anyway, as it shouldn't be needed :-)
[12:37:42] <Colourless> buffer clearing... bah, you only need it if you can see off the edge of the world :-)
[12:37:49] <Colourless> and you should never see off the edge of the world
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[12:38:32] <Colourless> oh no, we scared him off
[12:42:30] <DarkeZzz> I'm still trying to work out who's bright idea it was to have an abstract syntax to a low level, highly optimised language, that you're writing despite the fact you've got a higher level abstract syntax to a low level language already (also known as 'C' *grin*). Probably was a comprimise between the half dozen different hardware platforms in use when they started the project, no one could agree on the One Try Assembler Syntax, so they made one by
[12:42:33] <DarkeZzz> committe. *grin*
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[12:58:58] <Nadir> hi all
[13:02:20] <Colourless> hi
[13:02:21] <wjp> hi
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[13:15:05] <Nadir> Colourless: re: the forum, it just sounded "suspicious"
[13:15:31] <Colourless> that it did
[13:16:43] <Colourless> i don't believe them myself
[13:18:40] <DarkeZzz> There have been a few people on the forum occasionally pestering about exult-studio and the tools, I just don't see enough people harassing us (so to speak *grin*) about missing abilities for such a project to be well underway, it's possible they've just started it and are trying to flesh things out, before prodding us to get support for bits working. *grin*
[13:20:01] <Colourless> well, lets assume that it's true
[13:20:05] <Colourless> how do you define well underway?
[13:20:17] <Colourless> generating code for conversations is easy
[13:20:33] <Colourless> trying to do more advanced things is where you will have problems
[13:20:45] <Colourless> attempting to do scripted sequences is totally undocumented
[13:21:07] <Colourless> most of the intrinsics are undocumented
[13:21:12] <DarkeZzz> Though we recently had someone asking about that on the forum.
[13:21:17] <Nadir> The idea wasn't bad at all: play the bad guy
[13:21:29] <Colourless> yes we did
[13:22:07] <Colourless> of course the final problem.... you can't modify the existing usecode and use ucc, unless you rewrite all of it
[13:22:12] <Colourless> darke.... :-)
[13:22:57] * DarkeZzz doesn't think it was bad either. He just suspects that, ignoring the validity of them working on it or not, advertising the fact you've to unreleased (copyrighted and proprietary) materal that you're going to incorporate and release as part of your new game, probably isn't the britest idea to do if you want to hide from EA. *grin*
[13:23:54] <Colourless> saying you have something, and that people will have to wait an unspecified amount of time before they can get it, leaves a very bad taste in my mouth
[13:24:03] <Nadir> hehe
[13:24:24] <Colourless> sometimes the people maybe telling the truth, but this is the internet, bad things are to be expected
[13:24:45] <DarkeZzz> ucxt ain't going to be doing anything, anytime soon. I still haven't worked out to unravel their if blocks correctly in u7usecode. *grin*
[13:25:05] <Nadir> You mean like the finished version of Pentagram 1.0 with support for both Crusader games I have lying around on my hard disk
[13:25:08] <Colourless> unlike say.... fold and u8 usecode :-)
[13:25:21] <DarkeZzz> Yup. You ignore it and treat it as false, until it occurs, which is what I did. *grin*
[13:25:35] <Colourless> hmm, Nadir you must be from the future
[13:25:59] <Colourless> unless... you did all the work yourself
[13:26:02] <Nadir> well, after playing with Pentagram CVS yesterday I'm not too far in the future
[13:26:20] <Nadir> no, unfortunately I have very little time to do anything besides work atm
[13:26:28] <DarkeZzz> Considering we've not even had a 0.1 beta, I'm impressed. *grin*
[13:26:40] <Colourless> ssh! you are not allowed to tell anyone exactly what the state of pentagram is actually like :-)
[13:26:40] <wjp> DarkeZzz: we're not _going_ to have a 0.1beta :-)
[13:27:09] <Colourless> 0.1 Not Final perhaps :-)
[13:27:09] <wjp> we're taking the ID route of releasing it When It's Done(tm)
[13:27:20] <DarkeZzz> So we're going straight to 1.0beta, then release 1.1 cocurently with exult1.1final? *grin*
[13:27:47] <Colourless> well, at this rate, exult1.1 is never going to be stable :-)
[13:27:57] <Colourless> so 1.1 final will never actually be released
[13:28:14] <Colourless> and in pentagram, stability is one of our top priorities.... right? :-)
[13:28:30] <wjp> it is? :-)
[13:28:42] <DarkeZzz> Steps to releasing an exult1.1beta: 1) Release beta X. 2) Find game breaking bug. 3) Fix game breaking bug. 4) Go to step one. *grin*
[13:28:51] <wjp> speaking of which, I did get a semi-reproducable segfault in pentagram when saving
[13:28:57] <wjp> (right after saving, to be exact)
[13:28:59] <DarkeZzz> Stability? I've heard of it. *grin*
[13:29:17] <wjp> DarkeZzz: 3b) X++;
[13:29:50] <wjp> I think I copy pasted the crash location in #pentagram a few days ago
[13:29:51] <Colourless> obviously you are causing the segfault
[13:29:55] <Colourless> it doesn't crash for me ;-)
[13:30:04] <wjp> happened once every twenty times or something
[13:30:14] <Colourless> at least, not the last time i tried saving, oh, i don't know how many weeks ago now :-)
[13:30:16] <wjp> I'll valgrind it sometime
[13:30:26] <wjp> bbl
[13:30:55] <Colourless> i knew it, your shame over the problem means you can not bare to face me for this short while
[13:35:27] <Colourless> i'm off
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[18:55:39] <artaxerxes> hi all
[18:55:44] <artaxerx1s> exit
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[18:56:11] <wjp> hi
[18:56:12] <artaxerxes> wjp: do you know when we'll do the beta3 release?
[18:56:17] <wjp> no
[18:56:21] <artaxerxes> k! ;-)
[19:13:46] <artaxerxes> there was sort of a fair in Toronto for the last couple of weeks, called the CNE (Canadian National Exhibition). There's always some deal of old software and I bought Dungeon Keeper I and II for CAD$9 !!
[19:14:00] <artaxerxes> (about US$5)
[19:14:33] <artaxerxes> Now I'm trying to make it run in Linux! :-)
[19:14:48] <artaxerxes> dosbox kinda hangs for some readon
[19:14:59] <artaxerxes> s/read/read
[19:15:01] <artaxerxes> s/read/reas
[19:15:52] <wjp> dungeon keeper in dosbox?
[19:17:09] <artaxerxes> it started to run
[19:17:35] <artaxerxes> I can select the language but it hangs in the next screen
[19:17:53] <artaxerxes> (about audio options and play option etc)
[19:18:11] <wjp> I doubt you'll get a playable speed even if it runs
[19:18:28] <artaxerxes> I also tried wine and I was able to install it to fake_windows, but it wouldn't start the game
[19:29:45] <artaxerxes> seems some dudes are trying to understand the file format for DK: http://www.yoda.arachsys.com/dk/index.html
[19:42:36] <wjp> DK works in dosbox here
[19:45:31] <wjp> rather slow, but I'm playing level 1 currently :-)
[19:59:06] <artaxerxes> nice... maybe I should recompile it
[19:59:27] <artaxerxes> how old is your CVS tree?
[19:59:42] <wjp> couple of days
[19:59:54] <artaxerxes> mine is older. It might be why.
[20:01:25] <artaxerxes> what's the clockspeed of your machine?
[20:02:11] <wjp> athlon xp 1800
[20:02:17] <wjp> so.. uhh.. 1500something
[20:02:23] <artaxerxes> ygh
[20:02:31] <artaxerxes> I'm PII-350
[20:02:38] <artaxerxes> won't go far I guess
[20:03:10] <artaxerxes> I saw a comment on google about a guy who run it in dosemu
[20:06:12] <artaxerxes> interested in another game port? :-)
[20:06:47] <wjp> interested: sure. interested in _writing_ one: no :-)
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[20:22:45] <artaxerxes> ;-)
[20:54:19] <artaxerxes> gotta go!
[20:54:23] <artaxerxes> see ya later
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