#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 2 Sep 2006 (GMT)

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[00:01:35] <Marzo> Hi
[00:02:47] <Marzo> Colourless: the connection problem still happens with the newly updated servewin32
[00:03:06] <Marzo> Although the ratio of 'Client disconnected.' to 'Connected to client' is now 2-to-1, instead of a dozen-to-1
[00:03:16] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[00:03:50] <wizardrydragon> marzo: I think thsats what caused my catastrophic crash the other night, was as disconnect
[00:04:03] <wizardrydragon> *a
[00:04:34] <Marzo> It is possible
[00:05:31] <wizardrydragon> I think a packet got cut halfway and a memory leak occured
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[00:48:41] <Colourless> marzo. hmm..
[00:48:53] <Marzo> Yes?
[00:48:59] <Colourless> just a hmm
[00:49:17] <Colourless> i'll have to look at things more closely..
[00:49:23] <Colourless> i might be missing something
[01:18:23] <Colourless> btw, i considered using anonymous pipes but it's not so easy to pass handles to anonymous pipes between programs... they are anonymous after all. The standard method is to replace the STDIN and STDOUT handles with the ends of two anonymous pipes and use them that way
[01:21:14] <servus> I thought ExultStudio used TCP/IP for transport?
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[01:22:25] <Colourless> in *nix operating system it uses a 'file' socket
[01:23:03] <Colourless> in windows it uses pipes in winxp (originally i had it setup to use pipes for all winnt based oses but it stopped working in 2k) and a hack using mailslots in 9x
[01:23:16] <servus> Seems like a lot of work. I've always used TCP/IP (or UDP) for that sort of thing, crossplatform.
[01:23:23] <Colourless> i'm trying to rewrite the windows code to use TCP/IP but it's not working yet
[01:24:12] <servus> There's an interesting library call RakNet that lets you do RPC calls between networked applications pretty transparently, and its crossplatform. It might be worth looking into
[01:24:40] <Colourless> don't think we need 'another' library dependency in exult and exult studio :-)
[01:24:48] <servus> Well :)
[01:25:02] <Marzo> Re: anonymous pipes: one way to pass them would be to call DuplicateHandle on the pipe handles and pass the handles (converted to strings) to ES through command-line options
[01:25:02] <Colourless> i think I know where the problem is, just need to see exactly whats going on
[01:25:08] * Colourless makes a number of downloads
[01:25:46] <servus> Does ExultStudio really pass that heavy a stream of data?
[01:26:52] <Colourless> it can transfer a fair amount of data sometimes
[01:31:11] <servus> How intermingled is the network/transport code with the rest of Exult/ExultStudio? Would it be fairly easy to change how it works? Is it all in one area?
[01:33:15] <Colourless> most of it is just in the server directory
[01:34:44] <Colourless> though studio.cc contains a fair amount of socket stuff for the *nix code that I just #ifdef'd out for the windows. All of the windows code is contained in serverwin32.cc
[01:35:00] <Colourless> servewin32.cc actually
[01:35:20] <servus> But... no external libraries? Hm:)
[01:35:31] <servus> Can I add a tool to the tools section of Exult?
[01:36:03] <servus> It's the automapper I talked about a while ago... creates a U7MAP from a 192x192 image... it's nearly perfect now... as good as it's gonna get.
[01:36:22] <servus> I think someone (you?) already made one, but this takes care of all chunk-neighbour interaction
[01:36:48] <Colourless> was artaxerxes
[01:37:26] <Colourless> shouldn't be any issue adding something like that in
[01:38:12] <servus> Even if it includes a database generated from the original games U7MAP? I don't see why that would be a problem though, since the database is pretty much useless for anything
[01:38:40] <Colourless> can the database be regerenated?
[01:40:14] <servus> Yeah, if I supply a stripped database (I supply one byte of data per each of the 3072 chunks)
[01:40:34] <servus> Guess that's best. I don't see how that could be considered even a derivative work
[01:41:10] <Colourless> database would be different for u7 and si ?
[01:42:01] <servus> Yes. I haven't actually generated the database for SI yet...
[01:42:16] <servus> There's some sort of chunk classification for chunks in ES, right? Where could I see that?
[01:42:36] <wizardrydragon> There are chunk groups working now, thanks to Alun's bug report :)
[01:42:50] <servus> But where can I see them?
[01:43:30] <wizardrydragon> The tab beside [files] in ES
[01:43:33] <wizardrydragon> [groups]
[01:43:51] <wizardrydragon> Youd have to make your own groups, but hyou can use that to classify them.
[01:44:03] <wizardrydragon> I'm about 25% the way through going through BGs myself.
[01:44:04] <servus> ExultStudio doesn't work for me... I meant in code.
[01:44:15] <servus> It doesn't come with a classification? Then what's the point?
[01:44:32] <servus> I was under the impression that ES already had a database of chunk types
[01:44:42] <servus> I've already done all of BG's and most of SI's by hand
[01:44:56] <wizardrydragon> The groups system is inherent, it just doesnt have data yet. So, in a matter of thinking its a database with the tables ready but no data in the tables :)
[01:45:11] <servus> Ah then that's useless, because I already have more than that...
[01:45:33] <wizardrydragon> At least for chunks, shapes are already categorized.
[01:45:41] <wizardrydragon> Just not chunks
[01:46:12] <servus> Oh well
[01:46:27] <wizardrydragon> If it's of any use I can send the groups file I have when i'm done compiling it.
[01:46:27] <servus> Colourless: So how would I go about getting that (and possibly Exult3D) into CVS?
[01:46:38] <servus> How many group classifications do you have?
[01:47:08] <wizardrydragon> Hold on, lemme get the list
[01:47:12] <servus> I have 12.
[01:48:14] <wizardrydragon> I did it as ShallowWater/DeepWater/Shoreline/Plains/SparseForest/DenseForest/Mountains/Roads/Paths/Swamps/Plains/Desert/Tropics
[01:48:40] <wizardrydragon> I have yet to go through the city chunks so i dont have categorization(s) for them yet
[01:50:06] <servus> I have Unusable/DeepWater/ShallowWater/Grass/GrassForest/TropicalForest/Dirt/DirtForest/Mountain/Cave/Swamp/CityStone/Sand/Snow...
[01:50:20] <wizardrydragon> Snow?
[01:50:22] <wizardrydragon> Oh, for SI.
[01:50:25] <wizardrydragon> Stupid question :P
[01:50:33] <servus> I now wish I had broken sand into Shore and Desert, and that I had broken CityStone up into BuildingStone and StreetStone...
[01:50:49] <wizardrydragon> Thats the distinction between road and path for me
[01:51:04] <wizardrydragon> Road is the city highway type things, path are the intercity wagon paths and such
[01:51:06] <servus> Dirt paths are "DIRT" for me.
[01:51:12] <wizardrydragon> ah
[01:51:23] <wizardrydragon> AI thought that was the Skara Brae stuff
[01:51:24] <servus> It's that I classified both paved roads and insides of buildings the same way... stupid
[01:51:29] <servus> That too
[01:51:33] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[01:51:47] <servus> It will automatically choose big dirt patches or just roads, whether it's placed in straight lines on grass or not
[01:51:53] <servus> Most of Skarae is actually DirtForest though
[01:51:54] <wizardrydragon> ah
[01:51:56] <wizardrydragon> smart
[01:52:55] <wizardrydragon> I just didn't bother to categorize unusable chunks myself :)
[01:54:09] <servus> http://sammatthews.com/images/Exult3D/u7mapper-out4.png http://sammatthews.com/images/Exult3D/u7mapper-out3.png http://sammatthews.com/images/Exult3D/u7mapper-out5.png etc
[01:54:31] <servus> Things like caddelite and palace pieces are "unusable" because there is no reason an automapper should ever place them on its own
[01:54:41] <wizardrydragon> Ah! Make sense
[01:54:47] <wizardrydragon> *makes
[01:55:49] <wizardrydragon> Hmm, ES doesn't wanna add anymore groups ... odd
[02:10:57] <wizardrydragon> Hmm, Im undecided
[02:11:25] <wizardrydragon> Servus, did you include the cave sections with wall sections missing for hidden doors in your usable chunks?
[02:14:31] <servus> Probably, I went through all the chunks several times
[02:15:17] <wizardrydragon> Alright.
[02:15:25] <wizardrydragon> I wasnt sure whether I should or not.
[02:18:01] <servus> You can have my database if you ask nicely. I'm going to rip it apart in a little bit to separate out desert/beach, and buildingstone/streetstone, though.
[02:18:32] <wizardrydragon> Out of curiosity, what format is it in?
[02:19:15] <servus> C
[02:19:23] <wizardrydragon> Ah
[02:19:42] <servus> It's a big array. The parser gets it in compiled in and outputs a new one
[02:19:56] <wizardrydragon> Hmm.
[02:20:16] <servus> I have two separate databases totalling around 20MB, but the only one that cannot be regenerated is that array
[02:20:34] <servus> (Which is about 6K big)
[02:20:39] <wizardrydragon> I could probably write a quick and dirty utility to parse it into ExultStudio groups. That'd be useful to me, and it may be to you, I dunno.
[02:20:52] <wizardrydragon> In any event I'd greatly appreciate it if you didn't mind sharing it :)
[02:21:15] <servus> Dunno. Never used ExultStudio. I've always written my own tools for Ultima hacking... especially before Exult existed
[02:21:59] <wizardrydragon> Well if I get that to work I don't mind sending it back to you in the event you ever did use ES :)
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[02:22:26] <wizardrydragon> Hey there SB-X
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[02:22:46] <SB-X> Hi wizardrydragon
[02:23:49] <servus> I guess "greatly appreciate" is as close to "please" as I'm gonna get... :p
[02:24:11] <servus> http://www.sammatthews.com/files/u7mapper-1.0.rar is the almost-newest binary and U7MAP for TFL
[02:24:19] <wizardrydragon> Thank you!
[02:24:59] * wizardrydragon would hug Servus, but wonders if that would dramatically shorten his own life.
[02:25:21] <Baastuul> Yeah, mainly because servus has the plague.
[02:25:29] * Baastuul points to all the boils festering on servus's flesh.
[02:25:40] <servus> http://www.sammatthews.com/files/u7-common.h and http://www.sammatthews.com/files/u7-importmap.h
[02:26:00] <wizardrydragon> And again, thank you :)
[02:26:04] <servus> Those are just spots on my hide, Baastuul... now speaking of hides... I'm gonna tan yours! *FWAP*
[02:28:25] * Baastuul yelps.
[02:28:39] * wizardrydragon munches on popcorn.
[02:28:53] <Baastuul> Heavily buttered? Heavily salted? Carameled?
[02:28:58] <Baastuul> Bland?
[02:29:06] <wizardrydragon> All of the above!
[02:29:13] <Baastuul> :-OOOOOOOOOOO~!
[02:31:01] <wizardrydragon> Indeed!
[02:31:34] <wizardrydragon> Baastuul, what is your opinion of hermit cookies?
[02:34:11] <servus> Colourless: So, uhh, am I waiting for an answer about CVS/tools? Should I ask someone else? : o)
[02:37:15] <wizardrydragon> It appears colourless wandered off.
[02:37:33] <SB-X> servus: Why don't you just upload the program somewhere (like the patch tracker) and keep prodding the devs to add them to Exult CVS.
[02:37:36] <SB-X> ?
[02:38:24] <servus> Because I'm not on anyone's CVS access list! It makes my working copy lonely *Sniff*
[02:38:38] <wizardrydragon> Lol
[02:39:02] <wizardrydragon> Id offer you a place on mine but I know thats not what you want
[02:41:45] <servus> "[01:58:56] <wizardrydragon> And yes, it's odd that the TFL team are ops on the chat channel, isn't it?" : o)
[02:42:30] <wizardrydragon> Im not sure I get the connection, but I'm being a bit thick tonight so don't mind me :P
[02:43:52] <wizardrydragon> If you have a sourceforge.net account and really want cvs access, I can add you to the tfl devlist :)
[02:45:19] <wizardrydragon> (by the way, try looking up the access info for #tfl, you may be surprised ;) )
[02:47:23] <servus> What is access info?
[02:47:37] <wizardrydragon> Try /chanserv access #tfl list :)
[02:48:00] <wizardrydragon> Thats the op perms and level for people on a channel.
[02:49:07] <servus> I wasn't complaining about having ops, I was complaining about a discreprancy between what was said and what happened *grin*, so thanks but no thanks, but I'm not going to discuss it any more, at least in public
[02:49:28] <wizardrydragon> Well Im still confused, but okay.
[02:50:19] <SB-X> Me too...
[02:50:23] <wizardrydragon> Wee, Marzos source-built exultstudio is shiney and crashes less.
[02:50:37] * wizardrydragon dances around gleefully.
[02:52:29] <servus> guess whose x just broke>>>
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[02:55:54] <Sevalecan> yours? D:
[02:56:44] <wizardrydragon> Lol
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[03:39:53] <SB-X> wb servus
[03:43:37] <servus> Thanks. X is still broken; I give up for now...
[03:43:47] <servus> Looks like my PS/2 mouse port is dead
[03:43:50] <SB-X> :(
[03:44:18] <servus> I've been using the AccessX mouse emulator for the last week... moving the mouse with the keyboard. Guess it works.
[03:44:25] <servus> Thou should buy a mouse, Avatar!
[03:44:38] <SB-X> why were you using a mouse emulator before you knew your mouse port was dead?
[03:44:50] <servus> I didn't wanna restart X to confirm that it was dead : o)
[03:45:13] <SB-X> mine is unreliable and causes phantom mouseclicks, so Im using a USB mouse
[03:45:41] <SB-X> im not sure if its the PS/2 port or the mouse that was causing the problems but it works fine now
[03:46:23] <servus> My USB KVM died a few days after buying it, so now on this machine I have to go USB Mouse => USB/PS/2 Converter => PS/2 KVM => PS/2/USB Converter => USB port, and then it only moves up and down...
[03:46:36] <servus> On Windows I get phantom "mousewheel ups".
[03:46:54] <wizardrydragon> Out of curiosity, what brand of mouse are you using, servus?
[03:47:35] <wizardrydragon> I have encountered similar problems before with logitech mice.
[03:47:54] <servus> Microsoft Intellimouse USB, Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer USB, Razer Diamondback (which I absolutely hate)
[03:48:26] * SB-X never uses such popular name-brand mice.
[03:48:47] <wizardrydragon> Ive never used microsoft mice, so Im afraid Im of little help
[03:52:26] <servus> I didn't know in the store what a stupid "Leet Gamer" mouse the Diamondback was. It's way too sensitive and jumpy. feels weird to hold, and BLINDS me with "cool laser beam technology". Hate it.
[03:52:52] <wizardrydragon> Hehe
[03:53:02] <servus> The KVM is a cheap 2-port PS/2 IOGear, but it's served me better and longer than the piece of junk LinksKey/Broadtech 4-port USB KVM I got... Don't buy any of their hardware.
[03:53:09] <wizardrydragon> Ive never heard of that brand until you mentioned it just now
[03:53:31] <wizardrydragon> Diamondback that is
[03:53:54] <servus> Apparently their popular with the neon light case modding community
[03:53:59] <wizardrydragon> Ooooh
[03:54:09] <wizardrydragon> So the "fighter" mentality
[03:54:23] <wizardrydragon> For those that read 8 Bit Theatre
[03:57:51] <SB-X> or the thinkgeek community
[03:58:18] <wizardrydragon> Indeed.
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[05:21:24] <Colourless> grr. You've got to be kidding me... the reason why it was dieing was because exult wants to read 0 bytes from a packet... grr
[05:21:37] <wizardrydragon> Thats a new one.
[05:21:46] <wizardrydragon> +10 points for originality!
[05:26:46] * wizardrydragon is just happy that chunk organization is working.
[05:27:08] <wizardrydragon> Colourless: are you using the snapshot or source, out of curiosity?
[05:27:15] <Colourless> cvs source
[05:27:32] <wizardrydragon> Hrm
[05:27:36] <wizardrydragon> Odd.
[05:27:50] <wizardrydragon> Because for once Exult and Studio are working without crashing for me. Heh.
[05:29:44] <Baastuul> My property looks like an orange wasteland.
[05:30:05] <wizardrydragon> 07Orange01, you say?
[05:30:17] <SB-X> that's brown
[05:30:27] <Baastuul> It's orange on my end, SB-X.
[05:30:34] <Baastuul> 5Brown
[05:30:37] <Baastuul> 7Orange
[05:30:40] <wizardrydragon> Indeed.
[05:30:47] <SB-X> odd
[05:31:09] <SB-X> sorry, maybe xchat uses different color codes than mIRC or Trillian
[05:31:19] * wizardrydragon thinks SB-X's computer has an issue with RBG colour!
[05:31:26] <Baastuul> SB-X is colorblind!
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[05:31:43] <SB-X> nope
[05:31:56] <SB-X> im not colorblind
[05:32:10] <wizardrydragon> Im just blind period. Well, without my glasses that is.
[05:32:12] <SB-X> i cant even find the colorcodes in xchat though
[05:32:41] <Colourless> orange.. brown? those are blue and green!
[05:32:51] <SB-X> haha
[05:33:14] <SB-X> at least its not my computer's issue with "RBG" colour
[05:33:18] <wizardrydragon> Sounds ... tropical? Why is that my association with that colour combination.
[05:33:20] <SB-X> i can change what the colors are in X-Chat preferences
[05:33:29] <Baastuul> RBG reminds me of Richard "British" Garriott.
[05:33:34] <wizardrydragon> SB-X: Leave my dyslexia out of it :P
[05:33:45] <SB-X> hehe
[05:33:48] <SB-X> RLBG
[05:34:01] <SB-X> wizardrydragon: oceans are blue-green and tropical islands are surrounded by ocean
[05:34:28] <wizardrydragon> Ive been staring at shorelines with plamtree chunks for too long, thats why!
[05:34:51] <wizardrydragon> HAH!
[05:34:58] <wizardrydragon> I made Exult Studio crash!
[05:35:03] * wizardrydragon is proud.
[05:35:21] <Baastuul> You're a fool! This is preposterous! We'll never ride the wave on out of here! You're a madman! A maniac! A lunatic!
[05:35:40] <wizardrydragon> Yes, I am insane, but I assure you that has nothing to do with it my good sir.
[05:35:55] <Baastuul> Mr. Malmsteen. Take us into orbit. We've seen enough.
[05:37:00] <Baastuul> Does the moon look strange to you guys as well?
[05:37:13] <SB-X> Who's Mr. Malmsteen?
[05:37:31] * wizardrydragon is too busy destroying Pagan to notice more mundane events going on around him.
[05:37:46] <Baastuul> I'm quoting the introduction movie of StarCraft: Brood War!
[05:38:05] <wizardrydragon> "Star" "Craft
[05:38:06] <Baastuul> Mr. Malmsteen (at least that's what his name sounds like) is the helmsman of the battlecruiser which abandons the Terran colony being overrun by the Zerg.
[05:38:07] <wizardrydragon> "?
[05:38:15] <Baastuul> ...You haven't heard of StarCraft?
[05:38:30] <wizardrydragon> I hear little korean kids argue over whose best at it.
[05:38:45] <Baastuul> How the hell are you a programmer?
[05:38:58] <Baastuul> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/StarCraft
[05:39:08] <SB-X> I didn't know you had to know StarCraft to program.
[05:39:09] <wizardrydragon> Hell had nothing to do with it, I assure you.
[05:39:22] <SB-X> know of*
[05:39:48] <Baastuul> SB-X, it's moreso the fact that if you are a programmer, you ought to know enough about gaming and computers and what I refer to as "The Culture" to at least have a good idea of what StarCraft is!
[05:39:54] <Baastuul> I'm just surprised is all.
[05:40:03] <SB-X> maybe if you're programming a StarCraft clone :)
[05:40:19] <wizardrydragon> Not as if there arent enough of those already...
[05:40:43] <wizardrydragon> I wonder if there are any Ultima clones out there :)
[05:41:29] * wizardrydragon shakes his magic eight-ball.
[05:41:34] <wizardrydragon> "My sources say yes."
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[05:44:38] <wizardrydragon> It is my opinion thast the word "culture" used to mainstream society theres days is a misnomer, for it seems most of it is quite uncultured.
[05:44:47] <wizardrydragon> *these
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[05:52:26] * wizardrydragon goes back to setting Pyros loose upon the world.
[05:59:29] <wizardrydragon> Anyways, I have to work quite long hours tomorrow, so I think I shall bid thee adieu.
[06:00:02] <Baastuul> Good night! :)
[06:00:29] <wizardrydragon> Farewell!
[06:01:05] <SB-X> bye
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[12:17:39] <Colourless> i cleaned my keyboard and it now feel funny
[12:17:48] <Colourless> like all wrong any stuff
[12:18:34] <Colourless> i refuse to admit that it had more than a years worth of unknown material
[12:18:45] <wjp> :-)
[12:20:26] <Colourless> :-)
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[23:13:10] <Colourless> css difference between IE and other browsers are painful. Especially when you sometimes can get the thing you want to work in both using different methods, but can't figure out a way to get things to work in both at the same time using the same code
[23:13:45] <Colourless> pft was meant for #Pentagram
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[23:52:10] <Baastuul> hei Hei HEi HEI HEI HEI HEI HEI HEI HEI
[23:53:05] <wizardrydragon> Greetings, Baastuul!
[23:54:25] <Baastuul> >:O
[23:55:00] <wizardrydragon> What troubles you?
[23:57:20] <Baastuul> Nothing!