#exult@irc.freenode.net logs for 30 Aug 2002 (GMT)

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[01:14:04] <Glueycwal> hello
[01:14:06] <Glueycwal> is anyone here?
[01:14:34] <Glueycwal> I'm Jonathan of the forums
[01:14:37] <Glueycwal> and I posted here...
[01:14:37] <Glueycwal> http://exult.sourceforge.net/forum/read.php?f=1&i=9637&t=553
[01:14:59] <Glueycwal> i wondered if theree was any way to get the spells to work like they used to? I am using the latest 'stable' version...
[01:24:10] <Kirben> I don't think so, log it as a bug at http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=2335&atid=102335
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[08:12:30] <SB-X> gu
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[08:19:03] <Darke> Gu!
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[10:59:15] * Darke shuffles around the various filenames, renaming all the .cc's to .cpp, and .h's to .hpp. And puzzles at how he should capitalise one filename.
[11:00:35] <SB-X> ?
[11:00:35] <SB-X> hpp? :-)
[11:01:24] <Darke> Don't ask me. *grin* I don't particularly care for .cpp, but apparently VisualC chokes on .cc, so it's more convenient for Colourless. I'm swapping the .h->.hpp for consistancy. *grin*
[11:02:35] <SB-X> pentagram?
[11:02:48] <SB-X> what puzzles you?
[11:03:13] <Darke> Yes. Thankfully I don't have to try and convert all of exult. _That_ would be a nightmare of epic proportions. *grin*
[11:04:13] <SB-X> `rename .h .hpp *.h`
[11:05:18] <Darke> So far every file has been named by the primary class inside it, so Args.cc|h has a 'class Args {' definition, etc. The 'problem' is what to do with files that lack class? I've got the holdover from exult 'common_types.h', now logically I should rename it to 'CommonTypes.hpp', just because it's the same capitalisation as the other files. But it doesn't contain a 'CommonTypes' class.
[11:05:55] <Darke> Not that easy. *grin* Remember these are .h files? You have to alter all the `#include <foo.h>` in all the files as well. *grin*
[11:07:38] <SB-X> cat *.cpp | sed -e s/.h\>/.hpp\>/
[11:08:06] <SB-X> why do you have to rename it?
[11:10:09] <SB-X> did you write common_types.h?
[11:11:02] <Darke> Well yeah, but that'll just get you one big file containing all the code. *grin* You'd have to do a 'find' and a few other things to handle it, IIRC. Including using a temporary file.
[11:11:52] <Darke> I personally didn't write it someone else on the exult team did, but I'm certainly modifying it. *grin* And it needs to be renamed for consistancy's sake.
[11:12:04] <SB-X> oh yeah
[11:13:06] <SB-X> how about `for $cppfile in *.cpp; do cat $cppfile | sed -e s/.h\>/.hpp\>/ | $cppfile; done` ?
[11:14:24] <Darke> IIRC, no. Since you've got a race condition between the cat and the output pipe, BICBW. The last pipe should be a '>' anyway. *grin*
[11:14:41] <SB-X> oops, no $ on the first cppfile
[11:15:17] <SB-X> yeah, oops#2 :)
[11:16:30] <SB-X> `for $cppfile in *.cpp; do cat $cppfile | sed -e s/.h\>/.hpp\>/ > $cppfile.temp; sleep 2; done`
[11:16:54] <SB-X> `for $cppfile in *.cpp; do cat $cppfile | sed -e s/.h\>/.hpp\>/ > $cppfile.temp; sleep 2; cp $cppfile.temp $cppfile; done`
[11:17:16] <SB-X> `for cppfile in *.cpp; do cat $cppfile | sed -e s/.h\>/.hpp\>/ > $cppfile.temp; sleep 2; cp $cppfile.temp $cppfile; done`
[11:21:07] <SB-X> what would colourless call commontypes?
[11:21:25] <SB-X> or wjp
[11:21:44] <SB-X> or whoever else works on pentagram
[11:22:11] <Darke> Now as an added bonus, if it takes more then 2 seconds, or the sed fails, you'll obliterate your original source. *grin* I would suggest removing the '; sleep 2;' and replacing it with a ' &&'.
[11:24:44] <SB-X> hmm yeah I guess you dont need the sleep once you use a temp file
[11:26:05] * Darke nods.
[11:26:48] <SB-X> all of my filenames are lowercase
[11:26:54] <Darke> You've also got a redundant cat in there too, you can actually do 'sed -e s/.h\>/.hpp\>/ $cppfile' rather then the 'cat $cppfile...'
[11:27:06] <SB-X> and also just .h .c
[11:27:06] <SB-X> but they are plain C :-)
[11:27:29] * Darke snickers.
[11:28:19] <SB-X> i would either keep common_types.h, or rename to be consistant with the other filenames, or rename it and add a class to it
[11:29:20] <Darke> Can't really add a class to it. It's filled with #defines to redefine, for example, uint32, to be an actual 32bit sized type on different hardware.
[11:29:43] <SB-X> btw i read on the slackware group once a post from an experienced unix user who had just realized that 'less' can take a filename as an argument :-)
[11:31:54] <SB-X> whats the difference between exult_types.h and common_types.h
[11:32:07] <Darke> It took me a while to figure that one out too, but in my case it was 'more'. *grin* It's just a case of never actually having tried it, after all, how many times do you actually do something like 'cat $file |less'? I always find myself grepping it or similar then piping that through less. *grin*
[11:33:19] <Darke> IIRC, none except that it was moved from the 'exult' module into the 'common' module for use in pentagram also, and we really couldn't have a pentagram file labeled with 'exult' not can we? *grin*
[11:33:42] <SB-X> 'cat $file | less' was what he did previously i assume
[11:33:48] * Darke dusts under the rug a class called 'exultexception' that still exists in the pentagram tree.
[11:33:56] <SB-X> arent the types defined in sys/types.h?
[11:34:09] <SB-X> hehe
[11:34:31] <Darke> Yep, it's what I do too on the very few times I need to just cat a file raw to less. Finger macros and such. *grin*
[11:34:58] <Darke> Where's the sys/types.h on a windows box under VisualC++? Does Amiga/MorphOS have it? BeOS? *grin*
[11:36:28] <SB-X> i wouldn't know
[11:36:34] * Darke looks. It's POSIX standard, so in theory it should be there on all systems claiming to be posix compliant.
[11:36:46] <SB-X> but do you include that for linux?
[11:37:04] <SB-X> or is it limits.h with the SIZEOFs
[11:37:26] <SB-X> is windows POSIX compliant?
[11:37:45] <Darke> Nope. We use the SIZEOF_s.
[11:38:41] <Darke> IIRC NT claimed to be POSIX compilant at one point. No idea if it still is.
[11:41:47] <SB-X> do you get the sizeofs from configure?
[11:42:05] <SB-X> SIZEOF_s
[11:44:01] * Darke hazards a guess that we do, since they're listed in config.h. *grin*
[11:48:23] <SB-X> yeah
[11:48:27] <SB-X> ("AC_CHECK_SIZEOF(int, 4)")
[11:49:16] <SB-X> whoever wrote it added "May need to be changed..."
[12:10:50] * Darke hmms... that 'may need' bit isn't in his version. He guesses you're looking at exult's. *grin*
[12:11:13] * SB-X is.
[12:11:18] <SB-X> s/is/was/
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[12:47:49] <Colourless> gu Darke
[12:49:15] <Colourless> darke don't be a gu and rename all the headers to hpp
[12:49:23] <Colourless> just leave them as .h
[13:17:43] <Darke> Hi Colourless. Umm... why? Wouldn't it make sense for them to be consistant?
[13:18:14] <Colourless> because 'no-one' uses hpp :-)
[13:19:42] * Darke pokepokes at the quotes around 'no-one'. Umm... how do you mean no-one exactly? *grin*
[13:21:16] <SB-X> Darke: no-one but gus i guess
[13:21:57] <Colourless> all i will say is this. the reason we are going to be using .cpp is because my microsoft compiler won't accept .cc. So then, why weren't you previously using .cc and .hh ?
[13:22:09] <Colourless> you know, just to be consistant and all
[13:22:33] <Darke> Because I was just using, what exult was using. *grin* I figured if we were going to change, we might want to change to something consistant.
[13:23:31] * Colourless sighs
[13:23:55] * Darke wonders how you 'roll back' something you haven't committed with CVS.
[13:25:23] <SB-X> cvs update
[13:25:26] <SB-X> wait, nevermind
[13:25:47] * Darke guesses checking out a new tree is easiest. *grin*
[13:26:00] <SB-X> cvs co :)
[13:26:12] <Colourless> what 'exactly' did you do?
[13:26:46] <Darke> I 'remove'd the .h ones from my local copy, but have yet to commit them. I just want to 'undo' said removal. *grin*
[13:28:18] <Colourless> that was an unwise thing to do... no one actually agreed to use .hpp :-)
[13:29:57] <Darke> It depends upon how you read your response to my question. I read "you've heard me complain about hpp too" in the same manner as "you've heard me complain about cpp", which I have and was the reason I was changing it. *grin*
[13:30:24] <Colourless> no, i complain about .cc :-)
[13:30:36] <Darke> (As in, you want them to be changed to cpp.)
[13:31:12] <Colourless> i see your point... but you know have 'known' what I actually meant
[13:32:22] * Darke actually didn't, that's why he asked you about your response the other day. *grin*
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[13:35:19] <Colourless> DAMNIT DARKE! COME BACK
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[13:38:16] * Darke bleahs and wonders why X decided to commit suicide.
[13:38:27] <Colourless> good you are back
[13:38:42] <Colourless> [19:01:11] * Darke|afk doesn't like cpp either, he likes even less the 'hpp' people seem to throw around too. *grin* Although 'cc' is, IIRC, technically a holdover from when things were called 'C with Classes', so is probably 'correct' through sheer accident of history. *grin*
[13:39:07] <Colourless> [19:02:28] <Darke> But ultimately it's completely arbitary. 'foo.cc' and 'foo.h' are just easier to type then 'foo.cpp' and 'foo.hpp'. *grin*
[13:39:07] <Colourless> [19:02:50] <Colourless> i never said anything about hpp ;-0
[13:39:14] <Colourless> [19:06:04] * Darke was just noting 'hpp' just in case. *grin*
[13:39:56] * Darke hmms... when was this?
[13:40:10] <Colourless> http://www.math.leidenuniv.nl/~wpalenst/exultlog.php3?log=14Jun2002
[13:41:10] <Darke> Ok, so the next question is, why'd you paste it? *grin* I'll check what I missed, one moment.
[13:41:37] <Colourless> i have my reasons
[13:41:43] <Colourless> :-)
[13:42:21] * Darke checks and still wonders why. Is this supposed to show that I must have 'known' that you don't like hpp or something?
[13:42:22] <Colourless> you noted that your distaste of hpp was so much, that it was more than of cpp... however, now look what you have done.... :-)
[13:42:45] <Darke> Well yes. *grin* But I prefer consistancy over my personal tastes.
[13:43:18] <Colourless> sigh, we need a third party to resolve this issue
[13:44:07] <Darke> I just figured that if people were wandering around going to all the effort of adding a 'pp' to the end of .c, then there was obviously a reason unknown to me, to also add 'pp' to the end of .h. *grin* Ultimately I dislike both since it's extra characters to type no matter what.
[13:45:09] <Colourless> most people generally do not use .hpp because of that
[13:45:28] <Colourless> however certain compilers, such as mine, need with the cpp or cxx to specify a c++ file
[13:45:42] <Colourless> with headers though the extension is meaningless really
[13:46:28] <Colourless> if we wanted to be really stupid we could remove the extensions from the headers entirely... no that I think that is a good idea :-)
[13:47:08] <Darke> Works for me. *grin* It's as inconsistant as all the other options.
[13:47:59] * Darke ponders. Actually, no, it'd likely end up with more typing in the long run, considering tab completion. Keep the .h's.
[13:49:36] <Colourless> as far as consitantcy goes, i take it you wanted the header name to pretty much be the same as the class name?
[13:49:48] <Colourless> same capitalization too?
[13:50:05] * Darke is just accutely aware of pointless characters needing to be typed, since he's done almost all of his pentagram coding recently through a ssh connection from work to his home machine. *grin* He's learned so many new vi commands just because he's been forced to use it all the time now.
[13:50:11] <Darke> That's how I've been working.
[13:51:01] <Darke> I've been bending the rules a little though. For example Args.h contains not only 'class Args', but it's helper class 'class Options'. So I've just been basing it off the most 'major' class in the file.
[13:51:07] <Colourless> what style have you been using for multi word names. LikeThis or Like_this or Like_This
[13:51:20] <Darke> LikeThis.
[13:51:34] <Colourless> yes, it would be a bit hard in some cases unless we wanted hundreds and hundreds of headers
[13:51:37] <Colourless> ok good
[13:51:51] <Colourless> anything in particular done with member functions?
[13:52:08] * Colourless wants to compile a bit of a 'code style' doc
[13:52:26] <Darke> Nothing in particular really, afaict. I've just been leaving them as 'normal'. I'll just double check things.
[13:53:05] <Darke> Member functions are all lower case.
[13:53:25] <Colourless> ok
[13:53:33] <Darke> Or at least I can't find any member functions that are more then one 'word' anyway to form another hypothesis.
[13:54:24] <Darke> StackBufferDataSource has an exception for 'addSP' but it makes sense. Still looking...
[13:54:25] <Colourless> i generally find myself doing member functions LikeThis and variables like_this
[13:55:29] <Darke> I've used 'event_names' in the ConvertUsecodeU8 class, but that's only because the original structure was called 'event_names' and I was just quickly converting things. *grin*
[13:55:47] <Darke> s/in/as a member function in/
[13:56:48] <Colourless> ideally i would like some way to differentiate between functions and variables
[13:56:56] * Darke nods. He's rather flexible in reguards to member functions. He either does them LikeThis or like_this or likethis or likeThis depending upon mood, the phase of the moon, and whatever other programming languages he's coding in as well. *grin*
[13:57:11] <Darke> s/well/well at the same time/
[13:57:33] <Colourless> yeah, well me too :-)(
[13:57:38] <Darke> My member variables tend to start with '_' as in _event_names.
[13:57:52] * SB-X gives everyone an apple.
[13:58:46] * Darke uses a lightsaber to remove the core of his apple, then munches on the rest of it. "Thanks!"
[13:59:06] * Colourless gives his apple to Darke. Dragons don't eat apples
[13:59:31] * Darke decores Colourless' apple in the same manner and gives the dragon the lightsaber in return.
[13:59:39] * SB-X gives Colourless some gold and gems.
[13:59:53] <SB-X> :-D
[14:00:29] * Colourless says. "Look at this" and turns the light sabre on and puts it inside of himself and it refracts all around the room
[14:00:42] * Darke oooooohs!
[14:01:08] * SB-X oooooohs!
[14:01:38] <Colourless> ok, member variables should always be lower case. i think that we can easily agree on that
[14:01:48] <Darke> Yep.
[14:03:09] <Colourless> you decide the function format. it something that I really don't care about what system is used
[14:03:23] <Darke> I think as far as member functions go. The best we can ask for is to have all the member functions being in the same style. *grin*
[14:03:33] <Darke> function format?
[14:03:48] <Darke> s/style/style in the same class/
[14:03:58] <SB-X> why didnt anyone make a coding style for Exult?
[14:04:03] <Colourless> capitalization
[14:04:15] * Darke ahs.
[14:04:23] <Darke> SB-X: Because exult grew organically. *grin*
[14:04:25] <Colourless> that's what I meant by format
[14:04:48] <Darke> SB-X: We're trying to see what happens if we try and plan it this time.
[14:06:07] <Colourless> at least with Pentagram we will all be using K&R braces :-)
[14:06:37] <SB-X> !
[14:06:37] <Colourless> one of exults big issues is all the different styles for braces
[14:06:53] <SB-X> :-)
[14:07:01] <SB-X> when did you decide that? or do all of you just already do that
[14:07:25] <Darke> Colourless: You might just want to specify that all the class methods in the same file, should be capitalised the same way then. *grin* That way we'll at least be able to know the style of one area of code by the person who primarially works on it.
[14:07:39] <Darke> Which one's K&R again?
[14:07:48] <Colourless> Darke: yeah agreed, i really don't think we can ask for anything more
[14:07:51] <Colourless> if (statement) {
[14:07:57] <Colourless> stuff;
[14:07:59] <Colourless> } else {
[14:08:03] <Darke> Ewwww!
[14:08:05] <Colourless> more_stuff;
[14:08:05] <Colourless> }
[14:08:19] <Darke> Try using that style through an uncoloured editor and you'll loose your mind. *grin*
[14:08:57] * SB-X assumes the answer to his question is "no".
[14:08:57] <SB-X> hehe
[14:08:58] <Colourless> i 'used' to be the same way... :-)
[14:09:20] * Darke has a suspicion that he'll have to get into a ritual of running 'indent' over his code before working on it, and before committing it. *grin*
[14:09:37] <Colourless> hey, bring it up with wjp :-)
[14:09:49] <SB-X> so wjp decided
[14:10:47] <Colourless> but really braces don't matter that much
[14:10:55] <Darke> Oh, I tried using that style. One of my lecturers was a devote adherent to that as being the One True Bracing Style. *grin*
[14:11:05] <Colourless> it's not always consistant but mixing K&R and
[14:11:09] <Colourless> if (statement)
[14:11:10] <Colourless> {
[14:11:12] <Colourless> stuff;
[14:11:14] <Colourless> }
[14:11:14] <Colourless> else
[14:11:16] <Colourless> {
[14:11:20] <Colourless> more_stuff;
[14:11:21] <Colourless> }
[14:11:27] <Colourless> doesn't look 'too' out of place
[14:11:32] * Darke wonders if we can get an agreement that the GNU bracing style is the One True Evil one?
[14:11:41] <Darke> Like:
[14:11:42] <SB-X> isnt that what drcode uses?
[14:11:45] <Darke> if (statement)
[14:11:47] <Darke> {
[14:11:50] <Darke> stuff;
[14:11:52] <Darke> }
[14:11:54] <Darke> else
[14:11:58] <Darke> {
[14:12:01] <Darke> more_stuff;
[14:12:03] <Darke> }
[14:12:18] * Darke pokes 'more_stuff' across another couple of spaces.
[14:12:19] <Colourless> there will be no arguement, we'll just all agree ;-)
[14:12:30] <Colourless> drcode uses
[14:12:32] <Colourless> if (statement)
[14:12:34] <Colourless> {
[14:12:36] <Colourless> stuff;
[14:12:38] <Colourless> }
[14:12:43] <Colourless> else
[14:12:45] <Colourless> {
[14:12:49] <Colourless> more_stuff;
[14:12:51] <Colourless> }
[14:12:54] <SB-X> eh
[14:13:00] <Colourless> add spaces infront of more_stuff;
[14:13:03] * Darke pokepokes more_stuff for Colourless this time.
[14:13:04] <SB-X> well thats... close...
[14:13:16] <SB-X> :-)
[14:13:36] <Colourless> i actually find any system that uses 2 spaces for indents evil
[14:13:49] * Darke nodnodnods. Agreed!
[14:13:52] <Colourless> it's way too hard to see what's going on
[14:15:11] <Colourless> and of course the 3dfx glide sources use 2 space indents :-)
[14:15:11] <Darke> Ok, so we've got an agreement on what not to do then anyway. *grin*
[14:15:29] <Colourless> i should just reformat every file
[14:15:35] * Darke paws Colourless a few packets of painkillers.
[14:15:36] <Colourless> yes we can agree on what not to do :-)
[14:16:21] * SB-X uses the one with the braces at the left and 4 spaces.
[14:17:03] <Darke> How about again, with the bracing style, a case of "use whatever the file uses"? That will give us some consistancy, and will also enable us to use our preferred style for most of the time.
[14:17:46] * Darke uses the same one as SB-X, except he uses tabs with tabwidth set to four spaces.
[14:18:31] <SB-X> well i dont actually type four spaces every line either :-)
[14:20:08] <Darke> I didn't either, back when I actually used spaces to indent, my editor at the time (RHIDE with DJGPP under dos) handled autoindent nicely with it. *grin*
[14:20:54] * Darke yawns and should probably go to sleep soon. Anything else we need to argue over before we put them into the style guide? *grin*
[14:21:33] <Colourless> i think that all seems ok
[14:21:59] <Colourless> auto indent is so useful :-)
[14:22:01] <Colourless> and lazy too
[14:22:11] <Colourless> but who said programmers can't be lazy some of the time
[14:22:14] <SB-X> im going to sleep too
[14:22:19] <SB-X> i use the tabs
[14:22:27] <-- SB-X has left IRC ("cya")
[14:22:29] * Darke is of the opinion that a lazy programmer tends to be a good programmer. *grin*
[14:22:41] <Colourless> yes agreed
[14:23:03] <Colourless> a 'lazy' programmer has more to to think over their algorithms :-)
[14:23:14] <Colourless> more thinking... less bugs... right ? :-)
[14:23:16] <Darke> Mainly because a lazy programmer will try to avoid reinventing the wheel and just grab something relatively standard off the shelf. *grin*
[14:23:27] * Darke snickers.
[14:24:07] <Darke> I think the equation goes (less code)==(less bugs).
[14:24:23] <Darke> Of course by that logic, we can declare pentagram almost bug free and release version 1.0 now. *grin*
[14:24:26] <Colourless> shouldn't that be an implies :-)
[14:24:52] <Colourless> (less code)->(less bugs) (note that -> is the logic symbol for implies)
[14:24:56] <Darke> Something like that. *grin*
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[14:25:18] <Darke> Hi Kirben.
[14:25:27] <Kirben> Hi
[14:26:03] <Colourless> Darke: yes pentagram is almost bug free, and i honestly think that the 1 outstanding problem will take to long to resolve, so it shouldn't be used and an excuess to hold up the 1.0 release :-)
[14:26:09] <Colourless> it can be 'fixed' in the point release
[14:26:27] <Darke> Which problem? *innocentblink* The lack of an engine?
[14:26:41] <Colourless> yeah, you've hit the nail right on the head
[14:27:45] <Colourless> unless you have arleadt undone all your hpp stuff, send a mail to the mailing list and ask wjp his preference. i don't really care, my preference is just .h
[14:29:13] * Darke is just going to stick with the .h. That way he doesn't have to modify all the files to update their headers. Lazy remember? *grin*
[14:30:24] <Colourless> :-)
[14:30:30] * Darke will try and remember to commit the .cpp changes tommorrow. But tonight, it is sleep on his mind. *grin* Night all!
[14:30:36] <Colourless> cya
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[15:10:54] <wjp> hi
[16:22:38] <Colourless> hi
[16:23:14] <wjp> I killed Draconis last night...
[16:23:22] <Colourless> :-)
[16:23:39] <wjp> the single most unsatisfactory kill in all of BG2
[16:23:48] <wjp> he died from 2 spike traps + 2 normal traps
[16:24:04] <Colourless> hehe
[16:24:40] <wjp> I set the traps for finishing him off in the end, after I had nearly killed him with my mages
[16:24:54] <wjp> however, he decided to walk over the traps right at the start of the fight
[16:24:57] <wjp> ...and died
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[16:25:18] <Suvroc> hi
[16:25:20] <Colourless> hi
[16:25:24] <wjp> hi
[16:25:33] <Colourless> i wouldn't be complaining :-)
[16:25:48] <Suvroc> umm... today i arrived to furnace
[16:25:59] <wjp> well, it isn't really the way you want to kill someone you spent 4 hours on :-)
[16:26:03] <Suvroc> and the sleeping gargoyles awakened :?
[16:26:28] <wjp> but it's better than spending another 4 hours on him I guess :-)
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[18:20:37] <artaxerxes> hiya
[18:21:22] <artaxerxes> I've got a plot question regarding SI... technically, what are you supposed to do when Harna tells you to go to Monk Isle because sth is wrong with Cantra ?
[18:22:10] <Suvroc> you mean, when you found it killed ?
[18:22:52] <artaxerxes> when she is found, a monk comes to resurect her on Monk Isle. When you go back and talk to her mother, she says sth is wrong and you should go to monk isle
[18:23:01] <artaxerxes> because the monks need me
[18:23:39] <Suvroc> umm, i can't remember well
[18:23:44] <Colourless> you need to find batlin
[18:24:07] <Suvroc> i only can remember that you must get water for one of the disciplines to heal Cantra
[18:24:12] <artaxerxes> I've been to monk isle and no monk says he need my help!
[18:24:29] <artaxerxes> they won't even mention Cantra
[18:24:41] <Suvroc> Cantra disapeared ?
[18:24:43] <Colourless> the cantra usecode is broken remember
[18:25:02] <Colourless> there is nothing you can do to help her
[18:25:18] <artaxerxes> yes there is... I can hack usecode!
[18:47:51] <wjp> :-)
[18:48:13] <wjp> btw, you should probably mail your interna.. uh.. i18n question to the ML
[18:48:35] <Colourless> i agree
[18:48:36] <wjp> forum is not the most perfect place for discussing development
[18:48:43] <Colourless> send things like that to the mailing list
[18:49:04] <Colourless> you have a chance of getting input from all of the devs, not just the few of use who visit the forum
[18:51:09] <wjp> I wonder if the whole game-configuration-xml-file idea will ever be implemented :-)
[19:43:19] <artaxerxes> back
[19:43:25] <artaxerxes> sorry... had a meeting
[19:43:41] <artaxerxes> I don't even think I am registered to the mailing list
[19:44:02] <artaxerxes> wjp: could you describe this game-configuration-xml-file thing ?
[19:51:58] <artaxerxes> 0440@L0576 that's the code to set the flag 0047 which is (I guess) "Cantra is cured" flag
[20:12:09] <wjp> we were basically planning to have an xml file which contains all game-specific information
[20:12:36] <wjp> things like shape numbers for specific items (reagents, map, etc...)
[20:13:00] <wjp> there should be something in the ML archives about it
[20:15:13] <Colourless> heh, toggling flag 0047 does cure cantra
[20:17:43] <artaxerxes> I wanna try that!
[20:17:55] <artaxerxes> is it flag 0x0047 or 0047 ?
[20:18:03] <Colourless> 0x0047
[20:18:10] <artaxerxes> which is 71 right ?
[20:18:14] <Colourless> 71
[20:18:40] <artaxerxes> would you mind walking through the steps to update flag 71? I tried and it didn't work
[20:19:22] <Colourless> you need to go into the F2 menu
[20:19:37] <Colourless> choose the Flag Modifier
[20:19:42] <Colourless> enter 71
[20:19:49] <Colourless> the [S]et the Flag
[20:20:22] <Colourless> of course there may be another flag as well to cure cantra, as that one might only change her conversation
[20:20:26] <artaxerxes> my flag 71 IS set.... and still doesn't work
[20:20:54] <Colourless> i tested it by using a savegame from the start of the game and flag 71 changes her conversation
[20:21:01] <artaxerxes> I see
[20:22:38] <artaxerxes> is there a way to convert decompiled usecode into a more high-level language ?
[20:22:56] <Colourless> what happens is a flag will be set to make her crazy (lets call it 'cantraMad') then once you've cured her, the 'cantraMad' flag is unset, and the 'cantraCured' flag is also set
[20:23:06] <Colourless> you need to speak to darke about decompiling usecode
[20:23:21] <artaxerxes> he is Zzzing .. :)
[20:23:25] <Colourless> not exactly sure how high level his decomplier goes though as it's unfinished
[20:23:30] <Colourless> yeah he is :-)
[20:23:39] <wjp> ucxt works quite well mostly
[20:23:59] <wjp> it doesn't really create flow-control structures yet, though
[20:24:00] <artaxerxes> ucxt needs what kind of input file ?
[20:24:15] <wjp> usecode
[20:24:22] <wjp> but it'll find it automatically
[20:24:23] <artaxerxes> full-blown?
[20:24:27] <wjp> (it uses exult's config file)
[20:24:27] <artaxerxes> :/
[20:24:37] <Colourless> does somewhat want to disassemble cantra's usecode and check the 'idle' (not correct term) event to see what flag causes her to sat mad things
[20:24:38] <wjp> ?
[20:24:57] <artaxerxes> I'm on it!
[20:25:16] <artaxerxes> 0269: 38 A3 00 02 callis _get_item_flag@2 (00A3)
[20:25:16] <artaxerxes> 026D: 05 83 00 jne 02F3
[20:25:16] <artaxerxes> 0270: 1F 00 00 pushi 0000H ; 0
[20:25:16] <artaxerxes> 0273: 1D E0 00 pushs L00E0 ; Hello, Cantra.
[20:25:16] <artaxerxes> 0276: 1F 9C FE pushi FE9CH ; -356
[20:25:17] <artaxerxes> 0279: 24 02 00 call [0002] ; 7D109ACH
[20:25:19] <artaxerxes> 027C: 1F 06 00 pushi 0006H ; 6
[20:25:21] <artaxerxes> 027F: 38 00 00 01 callis _get_random@1 (0000)
[20:25:23] <artaxerxes> 0283: 12 05 00 pop [0005]
[20:25:25] <artaxerxes> 02
[20:25:34] <artaxerxes> or rather
[20:25:38] <artaxerxes> you might want to see:
[20:25:39] <Colourless> that is not what i wanted :-)
[20:25:41] <artaxerxes> 0263: 1F 1E 00 pushi 001EH ; 30
[20:25:41] <artaxerxes> 0266: 1F C0 FF pushi FFC0H ; -64
[20:25:41] <artaxerxes> 0269: 38 A3 00 02 callis _get_item_flag@2 (00A3)
[20:25:41] <artaxerxes> 026D: 05 83 00 jne 02F3
[20:25:43] <artaxerxes> 027
[20:25:50] <Colourless> lets see...
[20:25:54] <Colourless> flag a3...
[20:26:14] <artaxerxes> 163
[20:26:42] <artaxerxes> nope
[20:26:51] <Colourless> what usecode func is cantra?
[20:26:55] <artaxerxes> 0440
[20:29:59] <artaxerxes> I think I have it
[20:30:07] <artaxerxes> 020A: 43 2A 00 popf flag:[002A]
[20:30:07] <artaxerxes> 020D: 48 push eventid
[20:30:07] <artaxerxes> 020E: 1F 00 00 pushi 0000H ; 0
[20:30:07] <artaxerxes> 0211: 22 cmpeq
[20:30:07] <artaxerxes> 0212: 1F C0 FF pushi FFC0H ; -64
[20:30:08] <artaxerxes> 0215: 38 24 00 01 callis _get_schedule_type@1 (0024)
[20:30:10] <artaxerxes> 0219: 1F 09 00 pushi 0009H ; 9
[20:30:12] <artaxerxes> 021C: 22 cmpeq
[20:30:14] <artaxerxes> 021D: 0E and
[20:30:16] <artaxerxes> 021E: 05 3A 00 jne 025B
[20:30:42] <artaxerxes> and 025B is the beginning of the code where she profeses insanities
[20:31:52] <artaxerxes> wasn't that either
[20:32:55] <wjp> be careful you don't get kicked out of the server for flooding, btw :-)
[20:33:09] <artaxerxes> did it before! :) ask Colourless
[20:33:11] <artaxerxes> ;)
[20:33:22] <artaxerxes> could you tell me what the following is:
[20:33:24] <artaxerxes> 0212: 1F C0 FF pushi FFC0H ; -64
[20:33:24] <artaxerxes> 0215: 38 24 00 01 callis _get_schedule_type@1 (0024)
[20:33:57] <Colourless> checks the schedule type for npc 64
[20:33:57] <wjp> you can also just give the address; we should have the disassembly lying around somewhere
[20:34:25] <artaxerxes> the code goes this way:
[20:34:26] <Colourless> ah lets try something
[20:35:07] <artaxerxes> if event_id == 0 and get_schedult_type(64) == 9 then she says crazy things
[20:35:07] <Colourless> argh
[20:35:22] <Colourless> foiled by my unfinished cheat menu :-)
[20:35:27] <artaxerxes> ;)
[20:38:04] <artaxerxes> or maybe it is: if !(event_id == 0 and get_schedult_type(64) == 9) then she says crazy things
[20:38:32] <Colourless> na, got nothing to do withat
[20:38:38] <Colourless> s/withat/with that/
[20:39:06] <artaxerxes> ;) nice contraction
[20:41:15] <artaxerxes> YES!
[20:41:17] <artaxerxes> I've got it!
[20:41:41] <Colourless> and?
[20:42:10] <artaxerxes> F2, N, 64, N, *, 30, u
[20:42:18] <artaxerxes> 0263: 1F 1E 00 pushi 001EH ; 30
[20:42:18] <artaxerxes> 0266: 1F C0 FF pushi FFC0H ; -64
[20:42:18] <artaxerxes> 0269: 38 A3 00 02 callis _get_item_flag@2 (00A3)
[20:42:35] <Colourless> flag 30 :-)
[20:42:37] <artaxerxes> the first line: pushi 001E (30) is the flag that matters
[20:42:55] <artaxerxes> flag 30 of cantra... not a general flag
[20:43:20] <wjp> hm, of course it would be 30 :-)
[20:43:55] <wjp> 30 seems to be the flag all NPCs use for 'rare' conditions
[20:44:04] * wjp could've guessed that :-)
[20:44:29] <artaxerxes> ;)
[20:45:04] <artaxerxes> now I need to check what I should do to fix usecode... any clue where I should start looking ?
[20:45:22] <Colourless> something to do with the bucket usecode :-)
[20:45:38] <Colourless> hmm, flag 30 is the same for the companions too
[20:45:50] <Colourless> ...what better than having a party full of raving lunatics :-)
[20:46:10] <artaxerxes> I'm recompiling exult with debug so I can see which usecode gets called with the bucket.
[20:46:28] <artaxerxes> maybe I'll push a patch for SI-french where you can actually cure Cantra! :)
[20:47:01] <artaxerxes> when you are told that the French are in advance! :) As we say here, we might have no oil, but we have ideas! ;)
[20:47:26] * artaxerxes is just a vile braggart... don't pay attention
[20:48:42] <Colourless> so to cure her unset ItemFlag 30 on Cantra an set GlobalFlag 71
[20:49:04] <artaxerxes> precisely
[20:49:42] <artaxerxes> wjp: you are using linux, right ?
[20:51:09] <artaxerxes> could you look at the following and tell me if it's just me?
[20:51:12] <artaxerxes> http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=601922&group_id=2335&atid=102335
[20:52:10] <Colourless> hmm, might be getting 2 deactivate events sent to exult
[20:52:38] <Colourless> that would just be a guess from me
[20:53:21] <artaxerxes> well, it's only with virtual desktop switches.. has nothing to do with pauses
[20:56:20] <wjp> yeah, I'd guess the same thing as Colourless
[20:56:54] <Colourless> check your stdout output and see if it has 2 "game paused" lines in a row
[20:57:22] <wjp> or maybe it didn't get a focus event when it moved back
[20:58:18] <wjp> I get two pauses in a row
[20:58:32] <wjp> only when switching workspace though; not when switching desktop
[20:59:14] <artaxerxes> that's what I call a virtual desktop... I think I should have precised my words :)
[20:59:48] <wjp> virtual desktop is a desktop that's larger than one screen
[20:59:59] <Colourless> so where exactly is the bug. could it be a sdl bug?
[21:00:22] <artaxerxes> my mistake then... it's when I switch workspaces... :)
[21:00:29] <wjp> well, it could be considered undesired behaviour to get two focus-out events
[21:01:35] <Colourless> yeah, it could cause problems.. as happens with exult :-)
[21:01:59] <wjp> hm, xev (x event viewer) only gets one focus-out events
[21:02:03] <wjp> s/nts/nt/
[21:02:10] <wjp> but two focus-in events
[21:03:55] <artaxerxes> the game still runs, I can even pop the save dialog and stuff but the avatar just can't move. Even a double-right-click will say: can't find path. Even the other characters are locked.
[21:04:16] <wjp> yeah, that's paused behaviour
[21:04:44] <artaxerxes> no.. on pause, the palette doesn't cycle, does it ?
[21:06:14] <Colourless> it does
[21:07:14] <artaxerxes> my apologies... I thought the games was frozen
[21:07:25] <Colourless> you should be able to do most things, bring up gumps and stuff
[21:07:52] <Colourless> but you will be unable to move or do much interaction with the world
[21:10:08] <artaxerxes> indeed
[21:13:55] <artaxerxes> gotta go
[21:13:59] <Colourless> cya
[21:14:16] <artaxerxes> have a good week-end guys... it's a long one here in Canada so see ya on Tuesday
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[21:33:05] <Corvus> hi again
[21:33:19] <wjp> hi
[21:33:59] <Colourless> hi
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[21:35:12] <wjp> hi Max
[21:43:15] <Colourless> hi
[21:44:11] <Fingolfin> yo
[21:44:47] <Corvus> err...
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[21:45:25] <Fingolfin> I'll move to Eindhoven, Netherlands on sunday :-)
[21:45:33] <wjp> cool :-)
[21:45:59] <Fingolfin> that is, I'll hop back home on friday already, cause I have oral exams the week after :-) but that's only for that week, then I'll be in Eindoven "for real"
[21:46:11] <wjp> need some help moving in? :-)
[21:47:29] <Fingolfin> hehe:-) well I am going there with my car and some stuff, and it already has some furniture (bed, cupboard, a table, a big chair, some smaller chairs)
[21:47:35] <Fingolfin> so I guess I'll be OK for now
[21:47:49] <Fingolfin> I have been there for two days already, in fact (not in my room, that's only available now)
[21:47:56] <Fingolfin> so I know a little bit of the city
[21:48:13] <Fingolfin> my contact person fetched the keys for me on friday, and I'll get them on sunday from him
[21:48:16] <wjp> is it close to the university?
[21:48:29] <Fingolfin> you bet :-) it's 5 minutes afoot
[21:48:37] <wjp> not bad :-)
[21:48:39] <Fingolfin> and 10 minutes to the inner city
[21:48:44] <wjp> on the side of the railway station or the other way?
[21:48:48] <Fingolfin> "pastor petersen straat"
[21:48:48] <wjp> ah, other way I guess :-)
[21:48:53] <wjp> *blank*
[21:48:56] <Fingolfin> very close to the railway
[21:49:15] <Fingolfin> i.e. the main railstation is across the street, more or less...
[21:49:26] <wjp> oooh, nice :-)
[21:49:38] <wjp> that is indeed very close to the uni. then
[21:49:56] <Fingolfin> it is
[21:50:03] * wjp walked that part quite a few times
[21:50:16] <Fingolfin> "Pastoor Petersstraat 95 C, 5612 WB Eindhoven"
[21:50:17] <Fingolfin> heheh
[21:50:23] <wjp> (math. olympiad training sessions/national competitions were at the TUE)
[21:50:28] <Fingolfin> you could use maporama.com or some such if you want to know exactly
[21:50:33] <Fingolfin> cool yeah
[21:50:54] <Fingolfin> are you at the next ACM round (in november) btw? :-)
[21:51:04] <wjp> probably not
[21:52:03] <Fingolfin> well then at least we don't have to compete <g>
[21:52:17] <wjp> hehe :-)
[21:52:33] <wjp> maybe I should poll the rest of my team to see if they feel like it
[21:52:34] <Fingolfin> well since I am in the netherlands for the next 11 months or so, I guess I'll have to make a visit upon wjp at some point then , muwaahahaha
[21:52:50] <wjp> yes, we should meet sometime :-)
[21:53:35] <wjp> do you get an "ov jaarkaart" (free public transit card) as a foreign student too, btw?
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[22:04:14] <Fingolfin> dunno
[22:04:20] <Fingolfin> I'll find out during the week I guess =)
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[22:45:49] <LordDavon> hello everyone.
[22:47:55] <wjp> hi
[22:48:29] <LordDavon> I am having problems trying to compile a program to use SDL. Can anyone here help?
[22:48:44] <wjp> possibly, but you might want to try #sdl instead
[22:48:57] <LordDavon> They are all asleep in there.
[22:48:58] <wjp> (unless the program you're referring to is exult? :-) )
[22:49:08] <wjp> which OS are you using?
[22:49:16] <LordDavon> lol.. No, but I know it was ported to this platform.
[22:49:21] <LordDavon> I am using Linuxl
[22:49:23] <LordDavon> I am using Linux
[22:49:39] <wjp> hm, SDL should pretty much "Just Work(tm)" then :-)
[22:49:40] <LordDavon> For the sharp zaurus.
[22:49:48] <wjp> ah, that might be more complex :-)
[22:49:52] <LordDavon> lol
[22:50:15] <LordDavon> I am getting a bunch of these types of errors.
[22:50:17] <LordDavon> /opt/Qtopia/sharp/lib/libSDL.so: undefined reference to `QWidget::setPalette(QPalette const &)'
[22:50:33] <wjp> sounds like you're missing a library
[22:51:01] <LordDavon> That is what I was thinking, but I have no idea which one.
[22:51:28] <wjp> what does sdl-config --libs return? (the zaurus' sdl-config)
[22:51:51] <LordDavon> I am cross compiling.
[22:52:06] <wjp> yeah, I guessed as much :-)
[22:52:18] <LordDavon> -L/opt/Qtopia/sharp//lib -Wl,-rpath,/opt/Qtopia/sharp//lib -lSDLmain -lSDL -L/opt/Qtopia/sharp/lib -L/opt/Qtopia/sharp/lib/ -lqpe -lqte -lpthread
[22:52:19] <wjp> did you cross-compile SDL yourself?
[22:52:23] <LordDavon> Yes
[22:52:24] <wjp> k
[22:52:47] <wjp> do you use all those options when linking?
[22:53:13] <LordDavon> I went with the instructions that were in the README.Qtopia
[22:53:28] <wjp> README.Qtopia?
[22:53:35] <wjp> oh, the one with SDL?
[22:53:39] <LordDavon> Yes
[22:54:22] <wjp> how exactly do you build this program?
[22:54:44] <LordDavon> It is qmame.
[22:55:32] <wjp> hm, you'd think that a program specifically for qtopia would compile :-)
[22:55:48] <LordDavon> I have already compiled it for qpe.
[22:56:06] <LordDavon> Trying to move it to SDL since it has better screen handling.
[22:56:14] <wjp> ah, I see
[22:56:30] <wjp> so, what link command do you use?
[22:56:51] <LordDavon> Not too sure.
[22:56:52] <LordDavon> :)
[22:56:59] <LordDavon> It already had all of that in it.
[22:57:00] <LordDavon> :)
[22:57:07] <wjp> all of what?
[22:57:12] <LordDavon> I just moved everything over to SDL in the makefile.
[22:57:24] <wjp> could you dcc me the makefile?
[22:57:39] <wjp> (or the Makefile.am if it's an automake project)
[22:59:27] <wjp> and src/unix/unix.mak?
[23:00:14] <wjp> ah, ok, there's the problem
[23:00:58] <LordDavon> -o?
[23:01:16] <wjp> in src/unix/unix.mak, there's a line LIBS.SDL = ...
[23:01:25] <wjp> replace that by:
[23:01:33] <wjp> LIBS.SDL := `sdl-config --libs`
[23:01:48] <wjp> (if necessary with the right path to sdl-config so that it uses the 'cross' sdl-config)
[23:01:55] <wjp> replace the CFLAGS.SDL line with
[23:02:02] <wjp> CFLAGS.SDL := `sdl-config --cflags`
[23:02:06] <wjp> (same for the path)
[23:02:46] <LordDavon> Ok.
[23:03:18] <-- Fingolfin has left IRC ("42")
[23:03:32] <LordDavon> Tha path?
[23:04:01] <wjp> the sdl-config it calls need to be the sdl-config for the cross-compiled SDL
[23:04:21] <LordDavon> Gotcha
[23:05:11] <wjp> it kind of ruins the whole portability point of SDL that they hardcoded the LIBS and CFLAGS in the Makefile :-)
[23:05:17] <wjp> (as you noticed :-) )
[23:06:12] <LordDavon> lol
[23:06:14] <LordDavon> That worked too.
[23:06:19] <LordDavon> Thank you very much.
[23:06:25] <wjp> no problem :-)
[23:06:28] <LordDavon> Now I have to see if this thing works.
[23:06:49] <LordDavon> My understanding is that the SDL library on the Zaurus should already be coded for the screen.
[23:07:25] <LordDavon> I may need to play with the keyboard configuration though.
[23:07:27] <wjp> I don't really know all that much about SDL for the Zaurus, but yes, I think so
[23:07:35] <LordDavon> Thank you again.
[23:07:42] <wjp> it should automatically rotate the screen if the resolution is right
[23:07:48] <wjp> (or something :-) )
[23:08:17] <LordDavon> If you download the build I already have, you can see that many games are now setup correctly for the screen.
[23:08:33] <LordDavon> With SDL, it should allow the user to forge the resolution to fit the zaurus.
[23:08:37] <LordDavon> And also allow rotation.
[23:09:02] <LordDavon> It is off of the download link on Zauruszone
[23:09:15] <LordDavon> Watch out, it is 12MB.
[23:09:20] * wjp doesn't have a Zaurus, btw
[23:09:26] <LordDavon> Ahh...
[23:09:35] <wjp> :-)
[23:09:46] <LordDavon> You should get one. I love this thing.
[23:09:56] <LordDavon> I had an iPaq but hated WinCE.
[23:10:00] <wjp> artaxerxes seems quite enthusiastic about it too
[23:10:05] <wjp> (he ported Exult to the Zaurus)
[23:10:19] <LordDavon> He has been helping me out in the forums getting it running.
[23:10:26] <LordDavon> I have had a mess of a time.
[23:10:41] <LordDavon> Turned out to be a bad load of the static directory.
[23:10:51] <wjp> aahh.. that was you :-)
[23:11:01] <LordDavon> lol
[23:11:11] <wjp> hm, yes, the name does seem to be the same :-)
[23:11:27] * wjp only browsed through that thread briefly
[23:12:11] <LordDavon> Heh, I sucked at getting it running.
[23:12:17] <LordDavon> He was good at helping though.
[23:12:49] <wjp> corrupt files aren't something that occurs all that often, so it must be quite hard to diagnose properly
[23:12:57] <LordDavon> Ok. I never setup the Zaurus for linux so I am going to switch over and see what else needs to be done to get this working properly.
[23:13:20] <LordDavon> Yes, but it happened for me quite a few times. I ended up returning my SD card and getting a different brand.
[23:13:49] <LordDavon> Thank you again.
[23:13:53] <LordDavon> I will be back. :)
[23:14:01] <-- LordDavon has left IRC ("Client Exiting")
[23:36:25] --> Slave has joined #exult
[23:36:38] <Slave> hello... is anyone home?
[23:37:54] <wjp> hi
[23:38:45] --> LordDavon has joined #exult
[23:38:51] <LordDavon> Well, it was worth a shot. :)
[23:42:54] <wjp> ?
[23:43:52] <LordDavon> It didn't work. I am trying a clean compile. It is with the SDL libraries since it is a Qtopia error and I found no Qtopia code.
[23:44:39] <wjp> hm, maybe sdl-config --cflags contains something necessary too
[23:44:56] <wjp> (which wasn't used properly before when you compiled everything)
[23:45:06] <LordDavon> Hmmm. Let me try reading the documentation again.
[23:50:51] <Slave> YAY!
[23:51:02] <Slave> I finally have sound working in Linux :-)
[23:51:27] <Slave> I came to the channel to bitch about only getting the music to run in windows but I found the problem :-)
[23:51:48] <wjp> :-)
[23:52:45] <Slave> Gentoo Linux puts the timidity.cfg in the wrong directory and it doesn't find it, once I put it in the right place it all worked :-) I only discovered Exult 2 days ago... coolest damn thing I"ve ever found!!
[23:53:14] <wjp> *grin*; glad you like it :-)
[23:53:29] <Slave> I've been trying for ages to get ultima7 working, but it's not exactly XP friendly :-) I couldn't even get it to run in VMware
[23:55:18] <Slave> yup definitely... gonna go play it now (supposed to be coding, but games a better distraction)
[23:58:42] <wjp> time for me to go
[23:58:43] <wjp> bye
[23:58:57] <-- wjp has left IRC ("Zzzz...")